VC10er wrote:

As it turns out, I must have missed a United email or did not catch it here. Monday I’m on an old 3 class 772 from EWR to GRU. I selected a seat in J (and it was a Saver Award seat that was remarkably required very few miles! I do love MP!)
Anyway I did not know that I could select an old F seat just the same as a backwards or forward seat)
So I changed my seat to 1K (the seat number)
I knew they had stopped attempting to sell Global First (when available) but I did think one needed to get comped up, or use a GPU certificate.
I have said “goodbye” to that seat the last 2 times I was in one- thinking I’d never sit in one again (gosh I loved 1A & 1K on a 747!)
It might be dated, but the storage is almost unrivaled for THAT KIND of seat, and spacious.
So I went on line and moved myself effortlessly from 8A to 1K. (I realize it’s all just J service and food- but I still love the seat itself)
Am I the last person who knew this?
How many 3 class 772’s are left doing revenue international flights?
SILLY THING: I would like to shout out about United’s Polaris sleep mask, it’s the best and I use them at home. Does AA & DL and other airlines use the same contoured one, or the old thin ones?

Yeah, this would be the easiest and cheapest way to experience the old GF seat on the 3-class 772. There's a good amount of 3-class configured 772's flying. I think like 20-25 of them flying in the old 3-class.

xxcr wrote:

VC10er wrote:

As it turns out, I must have missed a United email or did not catch it here. Monday I’m on an old 3 class 772 from EWR to GRU. I selected a seat in J (and it was a Saver Award seat that was remarkably required very few miles! I do love MP!)
Anyway I did not know that I could select an old F seat just the same as a backwards or forward seat)
So I changed my seat to 1K (the seat number)
I knew they had stopped attempting to sell Global First (when available) but I did think one needed to get comped up, or use a GPU certificate.
I have said “goodbye” to that seat the last 2 times I was in one- thinking I’d never sit in one again (gosh I loved 1A & 1K on a 747!)
It might be dated, but the storage is almost unrivaled for THAT KIND of seat, and spacious.
So I went on line and moved myself effortlessly from 8A to 1K. (I realize it’s all just J service and food- but I still love the seat itself)
Am I the last person who knew this?
How many 3 class 772’s are left doing revenue international flights?
SILLY THING: I would like to shout out about United’s Polaris sleep mask, it’s the best and I use them at home. Does AA & DL and other airlines use the same contoured one, or the old thin ones?

Yeah, this would be the easiest and cheapest way to experience the old GF seat on the 3-class 772. There's a good amount of 3-class configured 772's flying. I think like 20-25 of them flying in the old 3-class.

I count 18 left... They are mod-ing three at a time so they are disappearing fairly quickly.

UAX Update:

CR2:
N693BR has left the Skywest floater fleet and joined the UAX fleet (Globe)
N652BR has left the Skywest floater fleet and joined the UAX fleet (Globe)
N465SW has left the Skywest floater fleet and joined the UAX fleet (Globe)
N951SW has left the Skywest floater fleet and joined the UAX fleet (Globe)
N881AS (2001 build) has joined the UAX fleet with ExpressJet (14th in fleet) - Globe livery

iahcsr wrote:

xxcr wrote:

VC10er wrote:

As it turns out, I must have missed a United email or did not catch it here. Monday I’m on an old 3 class 772 from EWR to GRU. I selected a seat in J (and it was a Saver Award seat that was remarkably required very few miles! I do love MP!)
Anyway I did not know that I could select an old F seat just the same as a backwards or forward seat)
So I changed my seat to 1K (the seat number)
I knew they had stopped attempting to sell Global First (when available) but I did think one needed to get comped up, or use a GPU certificate.
I have said “goodbye” to that seat the last 2 times I was in one- thinking I’d never sit in one again (gosh I loved 1A & 1K on a 747!)
It might be dated, but the storage is almost unrivaled for THAT KIND of seat, and spacious.
So I went on line and moved myself effortlessly from 8A to 1K. (I realize it’s all just J service and food- but I still love the seat itself)
Am I the last person who knew this?
How many 3 class 772’s are left doing revenue international flights?
SILLY THING: I would like to shout out about United’s Polaris sleep mask, it’s the best and I use them at home. Does AA & DL and other airlines use the same contoured one, or the old thin ones?

Yeah, this would be the easiest and cheapest way to experience the old GF seat on the 3-class 772. There's a good amount of 3-class configured 772's flying. I think like 20-25 of them flying in the old 3-class.

I count 18 left... They are mod-ing three at a time so they are disappearing fairly quickly.

They are moving quick on the Polaris retrofits!!!

jetmatt777 wrote:

cosyr wrote:

jetmatt777 wrote:

Aircraft swaps of the same seat map will result in a clean exchange of assignments. This one was a totally different map. I am in row 18 which is the very last row on the airplane, on the previous seat map 18 was exit row.

I recently had a change of flights, and thought I had lost a seat assignment, so I chose another worse seat, and the next day, I checked and UA remembered my original seat and I was back in it. I would wait 24 hours, then call and see what they suggest.

So, the seats are correct on the airplane but the seat map and a seat assignments are wrong. No one is sitting in correct seats. All of the rows are wrong aft of the exit.

Sounds like a TransStates operated flight to me.

VC10er wrote:

As it turns out, I must have missed a United email or did not catch it here. Monday I’m on an old 3 class 772 from EWR to GRU. I selected a seat in J (and it was a Saver Award seat that was remarkably required very few miles! I do love MP!)
Anyway I did not know that I could select an old F seat just the same as a backwards or forward seat)
So I changed my seat to 1K (the seat number)
I knew they had stopped attempting to sell Global First (when available) but I did think one needed to get comped up, or use a GPU certificate.
I have said “goodbye” to that seat the last 2 times I was in one- thinking I’d never sit in one again (gosh I loved 1A & 1K on a 747!)
It might be dated, but the storage is almost unrivaled for THAT KIND of seat, and spacious.
So I went on line and moved myself effortlessly from 8A to 1K. (I realize it’s all just J service and food- but I still love the seat itself)
Am I the last person who knew this?
How many 3 class 772’s are left doing revenue international flights?
SILLY THING: I would like to shout out about United’s Polaris sleep mask, it’s the best and I use them at home. Does AA & DL and other airlines use the same contoured one, or the old thin ones?

Im the same, flying LHR-SFO and was able to select 2K in the old GF. LHR-SFO has seen a lot of new Polaris birds fortunately, but this time I’m actually secretly hoping for an old one simply because I’ve never experienced the old GF seat! Very strange Christmas wish, I know, but looks like it’s going to come true!

I also agree on the sleep masks. Even though they changed recently (they seem cheaper?) they are far superior to any masks I’ve even received in first on other airlines. I’m actually not too concerned about the Polaris soft product being reduced.. with the lounges being so incredible, it means I can just board and go to sleep. Since United’s main objective for Polaris all along was sleep quality, I’d day they’re hitting the nail on the head! Also, when did they start giving the gel pillow as standard? I had thought it was a request only item, but the past few flights it’s been on the seat waiting for me

xxcr wrote:

Yeah, this would be the easiest and cheapest way to experience the old GF seat on the 3-class 772. There's a good amount of 3-class configured 772's flying. I think like 20-25 of them flying in the old 3-class.

Currently there are 18 of the 3-class 772s flying. 12 have reconfigured with Polaris, with 3 now in mods. 33 frames total. Here's an easy link to check Polaris mod status. https://sites.google.com/site/unitedfle ... ris-update

I am flying to China in March and April of next year and am booked from PVG to ORD on a 772 in Business class. I'm not able to change my seat to one of the old GF seats. I'm guessing it's because I'm a peon and don't have status with UA.

xxcr wrote:

VC10er wrote:

As it turns out, I must have missed a United email or did not catch it here. Monday I’m on an old 3 class 772 from EWR to GRU. I selected a seat in J (and it was a Saver Award seat that was remarkably required very few miles! I do love MP!)
Anyway I did not know that I could select an old F seat just the same as a backwards or forward seat)
So I changed my seat to 1K (the seat number)
I knew they had stopped attempting to sell Global First (when available) but I did think one needed to get comped up, or use a GPU certificate.
I have said “goodbye” to that seat the last 2 times I was in one- thinking I’d never sit in one again (gosh I loved 1A & 1K on a 747!)
It might be dated, but the storage is almost unrivaled for THAT KIND of seat, and spacious.
So I went on line and moved myself effortlessly from 8A to 1K. (I realize it’s all just J service and food- but I still love the seat itself)
Am I the last person who knew this?
How many 3 class 772’s are left doing revenue international flights?
SILLY THING: I would like to shout out about United’s Polaris sleep mask, it’s the best and I use them at home. Does AA & DL and other airlines use the same contoured one, or the old thin ones?

Yeah, this would be the easiest and cheapest way to experience the old GF seat on the 3-class 772. There's a good amount of 3-class configured 772's flying. I think like 20-25 of them flying in the old 3-class.

20-25! I guess I never stopped to think about them the way I was tracking the 3 class 763 mods. That is a lot of real estate for seats sold at J prices, although regular business on those 20-25 sure pack ‘em in! But I guess in the interim it’s the best of any other solution. Is it presumed it will take until the end of 2020 to refurbish them all?
Thanks

VC10er wrote:

xxcr wrote:

VC10er wrote:

As it turns out, I must have missed a United email or did not catch it here. Monday I’m on an old 3 class 772 from EWR to GRU. I selected a seat in J (and it was a Saver Award seat that was remarkably required very few miles! I do love MP!)
Anyway I did not know that I could select an old F seat just the same as a backwards or forward seat)
So I changed my seat to 1K (the seat number)
I knew they had stopped attempting to sell Global First (when available) but I did think one needed to get comped up, or use a GPU certificate.
I have said “goodbye” to that seat the last 2 times I was in one- thinking I’d never sit in one again (gosh I loved 1A & 1K on a 747!)
It might be dated, but the storage is almost unrivaled for THAT KIND of seat, and spacious.
So I went on line and moved myself effortlessly from 8A to 1K. (I realize it’s all just J service and food- but I still love the seat itself)
Am I the last person who knew this?
How many 3 class 772’s are left doing revenue international flights?
SILLY THING: I would like to shout out about United’s Polaris sleep mask, it’s the best and I use them at home. Does AA & DL and other airlines use the same contoured one, or the old thin ones?

Yeah, this would be the easiest and cheapest way to experience the old GF seat on the 3-class 772. There's a good amount of 3-class configured 772's flying. I think like 20-25 of them flying in the old 3-class.

20-25! I guess I never stopped to think about them the way I was tracking the 3 class 763 mods. That is a lot of real estate for seats sold at J prices, although regular business on those 20-25 sure pack ‘em in! But I guess in the interim it’s the best of any other solution. Is it presumed it will take until the end of 2020 to refurbish them all?
Thanks

3 at a time in mod, taking about 8 weeks each, so should be done by end of 2019

DC8FanJet wrote:

VC10er wrote:

xxcr wrote:

Yeah, this would be the easiest and cheapest way to experience the old GF seat on the 3-class 772. There's a good amount of 3-class configured 772's flying. I think like 20-25 of them flying in the old 3-class.

20-25! I guess I never stopped to think about them the way I was tracking the 3 class 763 mods. That is a lot of real estate for seats sold at J prices, although regular business on those 20-25 sure pack ‘em in! But I guess in the interim it’s the best of any other solution. Is it presumed it will take until the end of 2020 to refurbish them all?
Thanks

3 at a time in mod, taking about 8 weeks each, so should be done by end of 2019

8 weeks for each mod.....damn!! Just glad to see UA picking up the retrofit pace. They got rid of the 3-class 763 quick and im happy! flying econ on those planes was horrible!!!!

RE the 772ER sUA Polaris mod program and sCO 772/High J 763 programs.

Discarding the STC unit, the 11 sUA 772ER units converted have a long of 75 days, short of 47 days and an average of 59.1 days.
Using 49 days as an average (3 exceeded or matched 49 days), 3 continuous mod lines would have the last 3 units completed on 11/22, 11/28 and 11/30, 2019. This should probably be best case and I would think mod lines might go down to 2 or even 1 unit during peak summer.

Then we have the 22 sCO units. One is said to be in mod at HKG as the STC bird. Looking at seat maps the sCO birds look to have more done, but I believe all aircraft are going through a total rework in the cabin. While these aircraft are estimated to be not as imminent for conversion as the sUA birds, it appears UA will be running sUA mod lines at XMN and sCO mod lines at HKG.

It's unclear how many mod lines will be run at HKG between the sCO 772s and High J 763s. Maybe 2 each??
Maybe the last sCO aircraft will be reconfigured at XMN when the sUA program is complete.

The 763 mods have taken an average of 75 days each at HKG - at that rate the 17 763 High J mods at HKG will drag out for over 600 days with 2 mod lines (400 with 3 lines).

Looking at the 763 seat maps, the mod to High J Polaris shouldn't be as big a deal as the 3 class to Polaris reconfiguration. Not knowing how much will be replaced, the current 763 two class birds were converted in 2012-2013 and have correct bins in Y. It looks like lavs may not change much and most likely will involve pulling seats, replacing carpet, reworking electric/entertainment systems, possibly replacing wall panels and adding new seats. So, I don't think it will be a 75 day job per aircraft depending on life extension and other maintenance items.

calpsafltskeds wrote:

Looking at the 763 seat maps, the mod to High J Polaris shouldn't be as big a deal as the 3 class to Polaris reconfiguration. Not knowing how much will be replaced, the current 763 two class birds were converted in 2012-2013 and have correct bins in Y. It looks like lavs may not change much and most likely will involve pulling seats, replacing carpet, reworking electric/entertainment systems, possibly replacing wall panels and adding new seats. So, I don't think it will be a 75 day job per aircraft depending on life extension and other maintenance items.

I believe it'll be the same bins, sidewalls, entertainment system and Y seats for the 76C-76L mods. The ex-Hawaiian 767s need all-new IFE and Y seats.

United has reported astonishing growth- I just read another article this morning about it. And the first thing I thought of was “all this incredible passenger and revenue growth- yet still so far from a consistent WB fleet, with a J product mostly referred to as dated, and economy product that gets so many complaints. There are still not that many new 737MAX’s flying yet as there will be. I can’t help but wonder if the completion of Polaris and with the addition of many new MAX’s coming...if the growth will only continue as they morph into a virtually brand new version of United?

That's cool. So, I wonder if UA will hold off slightly on it the HA units until 2 class birds have excess seats removed.
There will be 85 E+/Y seats coming off the current 2 class birds for the 76L configuration.
UA will probably reuse these seats on the HA aircraft - it would two aircraft to get enough Y/E+ seats for one HA unit - three has enough seats for two HA units and 4 will cover all HA units.

I have a question about the supply chain. We all know of the initial bumps getting the new Polaris seats manufactured at the right pace. But now with so many more aircraft being refurbished, the addition of PE, the new sidewalls and lavatories, new bulkhead design and entry way and probably much more- I’d assume that there are many more suppliers today needing to deliver the goods in high volume and on time...have all those logistics been going as planned?

A bit off topic, the 77W's that are getting the PE mod, how long does it take to Mod 1 77W with the PE seats?

calpsafltskeds wrote:

That's cool. So, I wonder if UA will hold off slightly on it the HA units until 2 class birds have excess seats removed.
There will be 85 E+/Y seats coming off the current 2 class birds for the 76L configuration.
UA will probably reuse these seats on the HA aircraft - it would two aircraft to get enough Y/E+ seats for one HA unit - three has enough seats for two HA units and 4 will cover all HA units.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3PIHKfBbDc&t=390s

According to this video, you can see N684UA sitting just outside the HAECO hangar with the new registration and Hawaiian titles removed. It appears that no work is being done on it at this point. There is another UA 763 in the background, though I'm not sure what its identity is. Probably N660UA or N666UA.

xxcr wrote:

A bit off topic, the 77W's that are getting the PE mod, how long does it take to Mod 1 77W with the PE seats?

Not scientific, but under two weeks.

I read somewhere on a thread that the HA unit was going to be pulled out of the hanger when N660UA arrived. It makes sense that maybe the E+/Y seats from N666UA and the next high J candidate needed to by pulled tol be used for N684UA.
As for the 77W, I also read on a thread that the earlier 77Ws are getting a maint. check with the PE seating and maint. check is the thing that takes longer than the seats. It could be that only applies to the 2018 delivered aircraft, we'll have to wait and see if and when visits get quicker.

Re

78J
N14001 More practice with the new toy UA25/275 LAXEWRLAX 26Dec

Happy Holidays, everyone!

I just wanted to follow up on a suggestion that was provided here a few weeks ago on how to better organize this thread (and others). The idea is that the thread starting post would become a sort of Wikia, with information that would be updated at regular intervals for users to reference. This might prevent a lot of the repetitive questions that we see crop up so often. This information would not be managed by us, but rather by a few of you. We would seek two or three regular contributors to this forum to write and edit the information. These users would need to be users in good standing, users that we and the other regular posters in this forum can trust, and willing to work together to volunteer some time to create these updates. Because users cannot edit posts, these updates would be sent to me (or in the future, perhaps a different moderator assigned to the thread), and we would copy/paste them into the thread starting post. These updates would be limited to once weekly updates, unless special circumstances arise.

Just to clarify, this is just a proposal. If I'm given the go-ahead to trial this, it will likely require some trial-and-error to get this right. I'm choosing this thread for the trial for a number of reasons: one, there are regular fleet updates provided, and this sort of system is perfect for this kind of thread; two, because there are several users in this thread that provide valuable contributions on a regular basis, and I'm confident that I wouldn't have trouble finding volunteers; three, the updates in this thread are unfortunately organized poorly when made as posts, so I believe we can find a better system.

So that this thread isn't dragged any further off-topic, I ask that users please not reply to this post. This post is just seeking to inform everyone of my intent to hopefully improve this thread going into the new year. If users are interested in being a contributor, please PM me so that I can begin to gauge interest. If users would like to continue this discussion, please post in the following thread in Site Related: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1409297. If you don't like this idea as I have described, then please find a way to let us know. This proposal is with the intent to benefit users, so if we're going to do it, we want to do it right.

✈️ atcsundevil

Does anybody know why United isn't updating the Polaris page they created? They recently updated the lounge page with the January 12, 2019 opening of the LAX lounge.
http://view.ceros.com/united/polaris-tr ... ktop-4/p/3

This is similar to the way they lost interest in updating the IPTE page before the merger and the repaint progress page after the merger.

39M
N27511 LN7338 B1 26Dec.... What is interesting here is that N37510, LN7316, has not as yet flown at all... I’m sure there is a logical reason for this, but it eludes me at this time. ...... ..... ...
Oh, and N47512 is now pre-flight prep. N37513 just started pre-assembly... just covering all my bases.

intotheair wrote:

iahcsr wrote:

Amwest2United wrote:

The official ICAO code is 78X, not sure where the 78J came from.

https://www.icao.int/publications/DOC86 ... earch.aspx

I just consider the X and J interchangeable. X is ‘official’, but whatever works.

I prefer to call it the "ten hundred."

In GDS (ie shares) UA shows it as 781.....

The777Man

The777Man wrote:

intotheair wrote:

iahcsr wrote:

I just consider the X and J interchangeable. X is ‘official’, but whatever works.

I prefer to call it the "ten hundred."

In GDS (ie shares) UA shows it as 781.....

The777Man

I think the 787-10 will have the most names lol.

I know it as the 78J, others know it as the 78X, United calls it the 781

what other names does this plane have???

xxcr wrote:

The777Man wrote:

intotheair wrote:

I prefer to call it the "ten hundred."

In GDS (ie shares) UA shows it as 781.....

The777Man

I think the 787-10 will have the most names lol.

I know it as the 78J, others know it as the 78X, United calls it the 781

what other names does this plane have???

And the Airbus A350-1000 seems to be referred to as the A35K! Go figure!

audidudi wrote:

xxcr wrote:

The777Man wrote:

In GDS (ie shares) UA shows it as 781.....

The777Man

I think the 787-10 will have the most names lol.

I know it as the 78J, others know it as the 78X, United calls it the 781

what other names does this plane have???

And the Airbus A350-1000 seems to be referred to as the A35K! Go figure!

HAHA, Boeing took the J, so airbus said we'll use K haha

The K makes sense. K as in kilo, or 1000.

iahcsr wrote:

39M
N27511 LN7338 B1 26Dec.... What is interesting here is that N37510, LN7316, has not as yet flown at all... I’m sure there is a logical reason for this, but it eludes me at this time. ...... ..... ...
Oh, and N47512 is now pre-flight prep. N37513 just started pre-assembly... just covering all my bases.

Maybe there is a flaw in the airframe that needs to be fixed before it can fly. 7511 might have rolled off the line with no problem at all so that's probably why it's flying.

753:
N75856 entered SAT 2754/26Dec, expect slimlines, last unit to receive

772:
N213UA entered HKG maint 2795/24Dec

77W:
N2140U entred SFO 59/23Dec for PE mod

Update on the Shaheen Air A319s coming to UA.  Through some FAA database digging I was able to gather some further information.

OE-IHF (AP-BNI) ---> N4866U ----- Currently located in GYR
OE-IHI (AP-BNL) ---> N5867U ----- Currently located in GYR
OE-IHC (AP-BNM) ---> N4868U ----- Currently located in GYR
OE-IHJ (AP-BNN) ---> No known UA N number yet but is tagged to UA at Airfleets.net.  Currently located in GYR
      *Highly likely that this aircraft is tagged to N4869U.  N4869U has been registered by UA with the FAA but the FAA database does not show that a specific aircraft has been associated with it yet

There are two A319s still unspoken for (AP-BNJ and AP-BNK), both are within the age range UA has been acquiring

There are also three A320s that are unspoken for that I would imagine UA is considering picking up.  All three are within the age range that UA has been acquiring.  There are 4 other former Shaheen Air A320s available, though all 4 are likely older than UA wants.  
OE-IHL (AP-BLM) - 12yrs old --- Currently in France
OE-IHH (AP-BMD) - 13.5yrs old --- Currently in France
OE-IHB (AP-BMC) - 13.5yrs old --- Currently in France

In other news, in the last 30 days UA appears to have purchased the following aircraft off leases:
--- 8 x E145LRs
--- 1 x 737-800

**The 9 aircraft are all currently flying for UA but does show to a strengthening of UA's financial position

GmoneyCO wrote:

Update on the Shaheen Air A319s coming to UA.  Through some FAA database digging I was able to gather some further information.

OE-IHF (AP-BNI) ---> N4866U ----- Currently located in GYR
OE-IHI (AP-BNL) ---> N5867U ----- Currently located in GYR
OE-IHC (AP-BNM) ---> N4868U ----- Currently located in GYR
OE-IHJ (AP-BNN) ---> No known UA N number yet but is tagged to UA at Airfleets.net.  Currently located in GYR
      *Highly likely that this aircraft is tagged to N4869U.  N4869U has been registered by UA with the FAA but the FAA database does not show that a specific aircraft has been associated with it yet

There are two A319s still unspoken for (AP-BNJ and AP-BNK), both are within the age range UA has been acquiring

There are also three A320s that are unspoken for that I would imagine UA is considering picking up.  All three are within the age range that UA has been acquiring.  There are 4 other former Shaheen Air A320s available, though all 4 are likely older than UA wants.  
OE-IHL (AP-BLM) - 12yrs old --- Currently in France
OE-IHH (AP-BMD) - 13.5yrs old --- Currently in France
OE-IHB (AP-BMC) - 13.5yrs old --- Currently in France

In other news, in the last 30 days UA appears to have purchased the following aircraft off leases:
--- 8 x E145LRs
--- 1 x 737-800

**The 9 aircraft are all currently flying for UA but does show to a strengthening of UA's financial position

Kudos, United. Keep this up.

GmoneyCO wrote:

Update on the Shaheen Air A319s coming to UA. 

Between the Shaheen 319s and the China Southern frames, UA might be planning to stick with the existing small mainline A/C instead of acquiring a new narrowbody simply to add to the 76-seat fleet. There are probably plenty of current, large RJ markets that could sustain A319/B737 service and in turn lessen the need for more 76-seaters. Flying around with 10-20 empty seats isn't the end of the world when you figure in the cost savings of a simplified fleet over time. (exhibit A - WN)

With UA having so many of their ops at airports that are more prone to IRROPs, having fewer variables for crew manning and A/C scheduling might be beneficial. (exhibit B - WN)

jetblastdubai wrote:

GmoneyCO wrote:

Update on the Shaheen Air A319s coming to UA. 

Between the Shaheen 319s and the China Southern frames, UA might be planning to stick with the existing small mainline A/C instead of acquiring a new narrowbody simply to add to the 76-seat fleet. There are probably plenty of current, large RJ markets that could sustain A319/B737 service and in turn lessen the need for more 76-seaters. Flying around with 10-20 empty seats isn't the end of the world when you figure in the cost savings of a simplified fleet over time. (exhibit A - WN)

With UA having so many of their ops at airports that are more prone to IRROPs, having fewer variables for crew manning and A/C scheduling might be beneficial. (exhibit B - WN)

This is my hunch as well. Beyond the Shaheen and China Southern IAE powered A319s, there are 20 CFM powered A319s coming from easyJet in 2020/21. A sub-group of 20 jets with different engines than the other ~175 IAE powered 319/320s does not make sense so I suspect we will see the acquisition of more CFM powered Airbii over the next couple of years.

Ultimately this will all play into the contract renegotiation with the pilots' union, ALPA. The scope relief method offered by the contract to increase 76-seat flying was the addition of a small narrowbody to mainline flying. The economics of it do not make sense, if they did we would have seen the order for A220s or E195s by now.

At the risk of delving this thread off-topic here's some numbers on how a contract amendment might look and a synopsis of where I understand things to sit. Full disclosure, I am not affiliated with UA or ALPA in any way outside of being a frequent UA customer.

Publicly the pilots are holding strong on the current scope clause language (or at least the style of it), however I hope discussions are going on privately about the economics of bringing on a new small narrow body (e.g. A220). Specifically, that the math doesn't make sense for everyone at the same time, it only works for a portion of the parties with at least one party losing. Ultimately the pilots' goal is to grow mainline flying in a profitable way and not let RJ flying takeover.

My hope is that the new scope clause is no longer a fixed number but an elastic one structured along these lines:
On or after January 1, 2020 United Express Carriers may operate United Express Flying under the following limitations:

Aircraft with 70-76 seats, provided that such aircraft do not number more than sixty-six (66%) of the number of single aisle aircraft in the Company Fleet.

Aircraft with 50 or fewer seats, provided that such aircraft do not number more than thirty-four percent (34%) of the number of single aisle aircraft in the Company Fleet

As of today with 582 NB aircraft, this would allow for:

384 70-76 seat aircraft (+129 over today's 255)

197 50 seat aircraft (-107 from today's 304)

Percentages would need to be fine-tuned , but a structure like this would force the 76 seat aircraft to be used to reduce the amount of 50 seat flying, support UA's overall growth strategy and encourage growth in mainline. Continued acquisition of used A319 or 73G sized aircraft support this, though WN appears to be absorbing any used 73Gs that come available. IMO, the current contract setup encourages more 50 seat flying which is largely a losing proposition

As a reference point, during FY18, there was a net increase of 51 '50 seat aircraft'. More are on the way during FY19 as CR2's continue to come online with ExpressJet and E-145s are pulled from the desert. Until the contract is amended, we'll continue to see more 50 seat aircraft join the fleet. Ultimately 50-seat flying prove to be a losing proposition for everyone (low crew wages, uncomfortable aircraft, reputation loss, and higher cost once fuel costs rise).

How long does it take (roughly) for UA to take delivery of a used A319/20, maintenance check/overhaul, refurbish as nicely as they have shown so far...and put it in service?

GmoneyCO wrote:

jetblastdubai wrote:

GmoneyCO wrote:

Update on the Shaheen Air A319s coming to UA. 

Between the Shaheen 319s and the China Southern frames, UA might be planning to stick with the existing small mainline A/C instead of acquiring a new narrowbody simply to add to the 76-seat fleet. There are probably plenty of current, large RJ markets that could sustain A319/B737 service and in turn lessen the need for more 76-seaters. Flying around with 10-20 empty seats isn't the end of the world when you figure in the cost savings of a simplified fleet over time. (exhibit A - WN)

With UA having so many of their ops at airports that are more prone to IRROPs, having fewer variables for crew manning and A/C scheduling might be beneficial. (exhibit B - WN)

This is my hunch as well. Beyond the Shaheen and China Southern IAE powered A319s, there are 20 CFM powered A319s coming from easyJet in 2020/21. A sub-group of 20 jets with different engines than the other ~175 IAE powered 319/320s does not make sense so I suspect we will see the acquisition of more CFM powered Airbii over the next couple of years.

Ultimately this will all play into the contract renegotiation with the pilots' union, ALPA. The scope relief method offered by the contract to increase 76-seat flying was the addition of a small narrowbody to mainline flying. The economics of it do not make sense, if they did we would have seen the order for A220s or E195s by now.

At the risk of delving this thread off-topic here's some numbers on how a contract amendment might look and a synopsis of where I understand things to sit. Full disclosure, I am not affiliated with UA or ALPA in any way outside of being a frequent UA customer.

Publicly the pilots are holding strong on the current scope clause language (or at least the style of it), however I hope discussions are going on privately about the economics of bringing on a new small narrow body (e.g. A220). Specifically, that the math doesn't make sense for everyone at the same time, it only works for a portion of the parties with at least one party losing. Ultimately the pilots' goal is to grow mainline flying in a profitable way and not let RJ flying takeover.

My hope is that the new scope clause is no longer a fixed number but an elastic one structured along these lines:
On or after January 1, 2020 United Express Carriers may operate United Express Flying under the following limitations:

Aircraft with 70-76 seats, provided that such aircraft do not number more than sixty-six (66%) of the number of single aisle aircraft in the Company Fleet.

Aircraft with 50 or fewer seats, provided that such aircraft do not number more than thirty-four percent (34%) of the number of single aisle aircraft in the Company Fleet

As of today with 582 NB aircraft, this would allow for:

384 70-76 seat aircraft (+129 over today's 255)

197 50 seat aircraft (-107 from today's 304)

Percentages would need to be fine-tuned , but a structure like this would force the 76 seat aircraft to be used to reduce the amount of 50 seat flying, support UA's overall growth strategy and encourage growth in mainline. Continued acquisition of used A319 or 73G sized aircraft support this, though WN appears to be absorbing any used 73Gs that come available. IMO, the current contract setup encourages more 50 seat flying which is largely a losing proposition

As a reference point, during FY18, there was a net increase of 51 '50 seat aircraft'. More are on the way during FY19 as CR2's continue to come online with ExpressJet and E-145s are pulled from the desert. Until the contract is amended, we'll continue to see more 50 seat aircraft join the fleet. Ultimately 50-seat flying prove to be a losing proposition for everyone (low crew wages, uncomfortable aircraft, reputation loss, and higher cost once fuel costs rise).

Any relaxation of scope is a no go for the pilot group. Exceeding the currently allowed 325 70/76 seaters (which requires a NSNB purchase first) per your example of 384 70/76 seaters is a huge relaxation of current scope. The idea is to make the Express operation smaller, not larger. (Again per your example)

In the current contract, UAX flying has to be reduced once the current 153 76 seat limit is exceeded. Currently it is 120% of UAX hours allowed to Single aisle block hours. Should the company get the NSNB, and thus unlock the additional 76 seaters allowed then the UAX block hours must be reduced, eventually to 68% of single aisle block hours, and they also must park 50 seaters (per an equation in the contract)

The current UAL scope mirrors Deltas. End result with a NSNB purchase would be 325 70/76 seaters and 125 50 seaters. They are only adding 50 seaters because they have no other option without buying a NSNB.

Delta is extremely profitable with the same restrictions on 76 seaters. UAL’s costs are not that much more expensive then Delta’s as to render it a bad business decision. IMO it is not a cost issue for the company, but more of a philosophical one. UAL doesn’t want to give up the hope of ever flying 100 seaters at Express. Having those frames on mainline, being flown by mainline employees, makes that idea even more unattainable in the foreseeable future.

And don’t get me started on relaxing the current seat count or weight limits in the scope section. That definitely will not pass the pilot group.

VC10er wrote:

How long does it take (roughly) for UA to take delivery of a used A319/20, maintenance check/overhaul, refurbish as nicely as they have shown so far...and put it in service?

The China Southern ones took anywhere between 4 and 6 months each. The condition of the aircraft drives a lot of it, however the quality of the maintenance logs contributes a lot to it as well. Whether the logs need to be translated from Arabic to English will also contribute.

VC10er wrote:

How long does it take (roughly) for UA to take delivery of a used A319/20, maintenance check/overhaul, refurbish as nicely as they have shown so far...and put it in service?

I don’t have actual numbers to look at so I’m going on memory (...rarely a good idea in my case ) I seem to believe the CZ conversions took about four months. (Please correct me if I’m in error)
—Score 10 points to GmoneyCO for posting first —

Oh, and...
39M
N27511 C1 28Dec... “Ready for Deivery” while N37510 not so much...

FlightLevel360 wrote:

calpsafltskeds wrote:

That's cool. So, I wonder if UA will hold off slightly on it the HA units until 2 class birds have excess seats removed.
There will be 85 E+/Y seats coming off the current 2 class birds for the 76L configuration.
UA will probably reuse these seats on the HA aircraft - it would two aircraft to get enough Y/E+ seats for one HA unit - three has enough seats for two HA units and 4 will cover all HA units.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3PIHKfBbDc&t=390s

According to this video, you can see N684UA sitting just outside the HAECO hangar with the new registration and Hawaiian titles removed. It appears that no work is being done on it at this point. There is another UA 763 in the background, though I'm not sure what its identity is. Probably N660UA or N666UA.

N666UA is what you see in the video. N660UA is working inside the hangar at the moment. The Hawaiian bird needs to have a lot to sort out before work can commence.

GmoneyCO wrote:

VC10er wrote:

How long does it take (roughly) for UA to take delivery of a used A319/20, maintenance check/overhaul, refurbish as nicely as they have shown so far...and put it in service?

The China Southern ones took anywhere between 4 and 6 months each. The condition of the aircraft drives a lot of it, however the quality of the maintenance logs contributes a lot to it as well. Whether the logs need to be translated from Arabic to English will also contribute.

I guess while 4-6 months sounds like a long time, I can imagine the effort United do to make sure the aircraft rigorously checked and overhauled.
I’d prefer that over boarding an aircraft that potentially have mechanical problems!

UAX Update:
CR2:
N466SW has left the floater fleet and joined the UAX fleet with Skywest (Globe)
N947SW has left the floater fleet and joined the UAX fleet with Skywest (globe)

225UA is scheduled XMN-HKG, and then HKG-ORD on 01Jan, per Flightaware. And it shows Polaris and PE on the seat map! I thought she was only at XMN for maintenance.

747d10 wrote:

225UA is scheduled XMN-HKG, and then HKG-ORD on 01Jan, per Flightaware. And it shows Polaris and PE on the seat map! I thought she was only at XMN for maintenance.

Definitely received Polaris and PP mods. 4 conversions lines are running at XMN for the 77Es. N798UA will enter Jan 1 when N225UA exits.

I was wondering if I could get some detailed info from someone on this thread.
UA code for 738 GUM operation. Is it 73U or 73Y?
Now that pilot and FA groups are merged, will the 37K and 73L be merged?
Please confirm the 39M UA code is 37X
UA code for upcoming MAX10?
753, after reconfiguration, will UA codes be merged? Believe now codes are 75A and 75E
Will the 3 HA 763s get a separate UA code or be 76L?
What is the UA code for the Polaris 772ER?
Will pmCO and pmUA 772ERs have the same UA code?
Is the UA code for the 78X 781?
Thanks

calpsafltskeds wrote:

I was wondering if I could get some detailed info from someone on this thread.
UA code for 738 GUM operation. Is it 73U or 73Y?
Now that pilot and FA groups are merged, will the 37K and 73L be merged?
Please confirm the 39M UA code is 37X
UA code for upcoming MAX10?
753, after reconfiguration, will UA codes be merged? Believe now codes are 75A and 75E
Will the 3 HA 763s get a separate UA code or be 76L?
What is the UA code for the Polaris 772ER?
Will pmCO and pmUA 772ERs have the same UA code?
Is the UA code for the 78X 781?
Thanks

787-10 78J
737-800 GUM 73U
737 MAX 9 37X
757-300 slimline 75E
777-200ER Polaris 77N
767-300 High J 76L

Thanks.
I'm wondering if the removal of DTV on 753 units have the WiFi switching from KA to KU band.
Wondering new delivery 739 and 39M units along with some 737s that have had DTV removal are KA or KU band WiFi?