LotsaRunway wrote:

Often discussed is UA's lack of concern for New England outside of BOS

In my opinion UA isn't concerned with all of New England including BOS. I flew them recently on BOS-IAH. BOS was operating fine, but all of UAs flights were leaving late and generally UA is very satisfied with sitting behind B6, DL, and AA in BOS instead of trying to grow or anything.

tphuang wrote:

evank516 wrote:

I'm going to be honest, I'm already starting to book away from them. Starting to revert back to DL more often now and usually checking DL before I check B6 when I travel. I'm flying B6 to DAB next week and was willing to forego a nonstop to connect in ATL because DL is more reliable nowadays.

Just curious, have you noticed it to be a lot worse for B6 at JFK? I generally have had a lot of bad experience with every carrier out of JFK/LGA. And DL also seems to pad their schedules more a lot more. And just checking anecdotally on flightstats this year, they generally have about the same OTP out of JFK. The problem is B6 is not punctual at any other airport.

I've actually flown DL out of JFK quite a bit and haven't really noticed a problem. Granted I've been stuck on B6 more often on bad weather days, but my problem is that my usual B6 destination (DAB) only has one flight per day. If it's cancelled I'm screwed (and it's happened before). One flight per day markets really shouldn't be the first on the chopping blocks, and I think that's really not a good practice. I'm more inclined to check DL through ATL with their 4-5 flights per day into DAB where I could be rebooked the same day as opposed to possibly waiting 3 days (almost happened) to get another flight out on B6 because the DAB flight is completely sold out, OR paying a last minute fare to get on DL to go home so I don't miss another day of work. The one area where I give B6 credit is that they are very strict with tarmac delays and even return to the gate earlier than the DOT mandated 3 hour limit. But the amount of B6 flights I've flown to DL is about even since 2016 and I've been on time with DL on all but two flights. B6 on the other hand I've been delayed on a majority of them.

As for LGA, I've flown LGA-MCI on WN countless times and was delayed about 95% of the time. Switched to DL to get better timing (and connecting to avoid RJs) and poof..early.

LotsaRunway wrote:

VS4ever wrote:

evank516 wrote:

It's pretty common knowledge that B6's on time performance is in the toilet. This is really going to affect them in a negative way from a customer view point.

you think those were bad:

5/8 - 11.43pm
5/9 - 1.00am
5/10 - 2.01am
5/11 - 2.25am
5/12 - 12.30am
5/13 - 11.57pm
5/14 - 4.47am
5/15 - Cancelled

Does anyone know where the inbound flight to JFK comes from before turning to ORH, and is it chronically late?

Here's what happened for 5/14 (last to first for the day)
B6 676 - JKF-ORH (arrived 4 hours 51 minutes late) - 4.47am arrival
B6 2717 - BOS-JFK (arrived 2hrs 40 minutes late), but subject to an additional 2 hour delay before leaving for ORH - 12.54am arrival
B6 184 - RDU-BOS (arrived 2hrs 16 minutes late) - 10.33pm arrival
B6 783 - BOS-RDU (arrived 40 minutes late) - 6.30pm arrival
B6 1210 - JAX-BOS (arrived 19 minutes late) - 3.25pm arrival (well done for catching up on this piece)
B6 1109 - BOS-JAX (arrived 42 minutes late) - 12.35pm arrival

It appears B6 didn't complete any flights to ORH yesterday. MCO and JFK were cancelled and the FLL flight diverted to BOS. I'm assuming fog was the problem, but whatever happened to the Cat III? I don't think fog stopped anything anywhere else in New England yesterday. Tough break for an early demonstration of benefits.

LotsaRunway wrote:

It appears B6 didn't complete any flights to ORH yesterday. MCO and JFK were cancelled and the FLL flight diverted to BOS. I'm assuming fog was the problem, but whatever happened to the Cat III? I don't think fog stopped anything anywhere else in New England yesterday. Tough break for an early demonstration of benefits.

In some other thread a B6 mechanic said they're having issues with their embraer fleet. I might guess that could be a big part of the problem.

Elite Airways has commenced flights from PWM to Vero Beach, Florida. These flights now compliment their existing flights from PWM to Melbourne and Sarasota.

I honestly didn't expect Elite to be in business very long when they started sceduled service a few years ago using CRJ2 and CRJ7. The Florida flights from PWM have been doing well apparently? On some days they have to add an extra flight.

Unfortunately, their ISP-PWM-BHB and PWM-MBS-APF (Naples) flights didn't last long. But it's nice to see them finding success at PWM, as they've been here for three years now. Their headquarters in actually located in downtown Portland.

Also, I was happy to learn Frontier was coming in a couple months. However, I've looked at their schedule and the flight times are awful! The MCO flight won't be departing until 8:30pm, arriving close to midnight. The PWM-DEN flight won't depart until evening. It will be arriving in DEN late evening, and connections are extremely limited unless you want to spend nine hours overnight in the airport waiting until the next mornings first flights. Travel time to get from PWM to LAX, LAS, Etc. was like 18 hours with an nine hour layover.

Kind of dissapointed to see the timing of these flights. I was hoping to use this service to get to the west coast cheap, but the schedule just sucks. I don't go to Orlando, but if I was taking the family there, I'm not sure I'd like to arrive shortly before midnight and not get to the hotel until 1 a.m. or later.


Also, regarding New England air service way up North, United has won the EAS bid to serve Presque Isle Regional Airport, Maine. They will commence PQI-EWR starting in July. Replacing existing PenAir service to BOS.

PQI hasn't had service by one of the major's partners in at least a decade, if not more? PQI-BOS was formerly flown by USairways Express (Colgan Air). And further back in history by BEX (Delta Connection) and Northwest Airlink. ( There were Mainline DL and Northeast AIr flights as well back in the 1970's.)

'United wins bid for Presque Isle air service'
https://bangordailynews.com/2018/03/21/ ... r-service/

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

...Also, I was happy to learn Frontier was coming in a couple months. However, I've looked at their schedule and the flight times are awful! The MCO flight won't be departing until 8:30pm, arriving close to midnight. The PWM-DEN flight won't depart until evening. It will be arriving in DEN late evening, and connections are extremely limited unless you want to spend nine hours overnight in the airport waiting until the next mornings first flights. Travel time to get from PWM to LAX, LAS, Etc. was like 18 hours with an nine hour layover.

Kind of dissapointed to see the timing of these flights. I was hoping to use this service to get to the west coast cheap, but the schedule just sucks. I don't go to Orlando, but if I was taking the family there, I'm not sure I'd like to arrive shortly before midnight and not get to the hotel until 1 a.m. or later.


Also, regarding New England air service way up North, United has won the EAS bid to serve Presque Isle Regional Airport, Maine. They will commence PQI-EWR starting in July. Replacing existing PenAir service to BOS.

PQI hasn't had service by one of the major's partners in at least a decade, if not more? PQI-BOS was formerly flown by USairways Express (Colgan Air). And further back in history by BEX (Delta Connection) and Northwest Airlink. ( There were Mainline DL and Northeast AIr flights as well back in the 1970's.)

'United wins bid for Presque Isle air service'
https://bangordailynews.com/2018/03/21/ ... r-service/

Also the fact that PWM-MCO is starting in August, (right as summer vacation season comes to a close) and ending in November really makes me suspect about the viability of the route.

The good news is that PWM-DEN does seem to be selling well based only on the booking seatmap on Frontier's website.

In regards to United at PQI. I spent the first 18 years of my life in Presque Isle and honestly I can't really fathom what PI city council was thinking. Seems that the large majority of locals are upset about the change. The most people flying out of Presque Isle have Boston as their final destination so ease of transferring can't be that important of a factor. If people from northern Maine want to fly beyond Boston, they drive to BGR.

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

Elite Airways has commenced flights from PWM to Vero Beach, Florida. These flights now compliment their existing flights from PWM to Melbourne and Sarasota.

I honestly didn't expect Elite to be in business very long when they started sceduled service a few years ago using CRJ2 and CRJ7. The Florida flights from PWM have been doing well apparently? On some days they have to add an extra flight.

Unfortunately, their ISP-PWM-BHB and PWM-MBS-APF (Naples) flights didn't last long. But it's nice to see them finding success at PWM, as they've been here for three years now. Their headquarters in actually located in downtown Portland.

Also, I was happy to learn Frontier was coming in a couple months. However, I've looked at their schedule and the flight times are awful! The MCO flight won't be departing until 8:30pm, arriving close to midnight. The PWM-DEN flight won't depart until evening. It will be arriving in DEN late evening, and connections are extremely limited unless you want to spend nine hours overnight in the airport waiting until the next mornings first flights. Travel time to get from PWM to LAX, LAS, Etc. was like 18 hours with an nine hour layover.

Kind of dissapointed to see the timing of these flights. I was hoping to use this service to get to the west coast cheap, but the schedule just sucks. I don't go to Orlando, but if I was taking the family there, I'm not sure I'd like to arrive shortly before midnight and not get to the hotel until 1 a.m. or later.


Also, regarding New England air service way up North, United has won the EAS bid to serve Presque Isle Regional Airport, Maine. They will commence PQI-EWR starting in July. Replacing existing PenAir service to BOS.

PQI hasn't had service by one of the major's partners in at least a decade, if not more? PQI-BOS was formerly flown by USairways Express (Colgan Air). And further back in history by BEX (Delta Connection) and Northwest Airlink. ( There were Mainline DL and Northeast AIr flights as well back in the 1970's.)

'United wins bid for Presque Isle air service'
https://bangordailynews.com/2018/03/21/ ... r-service/

Success builds more success and failure breeds failure. Elite has found a niche that fills enough of their planes without drawing so much demand that another airline moves in and takes it away.
Frontier is a fascinating catch for PWM and I haven't figured out how F9 plans to make it work. DEN service should work with the help of available connections, but it could be a stretch if they depend on O&D. Florida service will compete with Elite.

United's bid for PQI-EWR confuses me a bit. Other threads are discussing how UA is shifting small community connections from EWR to IAD so UA can fly more mainline to EWR. This goes in the opposite direction. This would have been a great route for Cape Air to link PQI with B6 at BOS.

Jouhou wrote:

LotsaRunway wrote:

It appears B6 didn't complete any flights to ORH yesterday. MCO and JFK were cancelled and the FLL flight diverted to BOS. I'm assuming fog was the problem, but whatever happened to the Cat III? I don't think fog stopped anything anywhere else in New England yesterday. Tough break for an early demonstration of benefits.

In some other thread a B6 mechanic said they're having issues with their embraer fleet. I might guess that could be a big part of the problem.

I'm not sure I follow you. Are you suggesting that maybe B6 is short a few E190s for mechanical issues and in looking for which flights to cancel, they chose all the ORH flights? I thought it was just the fog and the airline electing not to use the Cat III ILS, but I suppose it frees the working planes for other routes.

United's bid for PQI-EWR confuses me a bit. Other threads are discussing how UA is shifting small community connections from EWR to IAD so UA can fly more mainline to EWR. This goes in the opposite direction. This would have been a great route for Cape Air to link PQI with B6 at BOS.

Originally, UAs proposal was to link PQI with IAD. Service to EWR was decided on.


https://bangordailynews.com/2018/01/19/ ... sque-isle/


That contract, subsidized under the Essential Air Service program, is put up for bid every two years, and expires in June. In the past several rounds of bidding, the city has received few proposals other than from Pen Air.

But this year, the Northern Maine Regional Airport received six bids, and Presque Isle’s Northern Maine Regional Airport Advisory Committee is recommending selecting a bid from United Airlines offering round-trip service to and from Newark, New Jersey, according to a city press release.

The other bidders include Pen Air, which is proposing to continue its current service to Boston; SkyWest Airlines, proposing service to Dulles International Airport in Washington D.C.; and three airlines — SkyValue Airways, Silver Airways and Boutique Airways — all proposing service to Boston. While some of the destinations are the same, the bids all differ in their proposed flight schedules, aircrafts and ticket prices.

LotsaRunway wrote:

Jouhou wrote:

LotsaRunway wrote:

It appears B6 didn't complete any flights to ORH yesterday. MCO and JFK were cancelled and the FLL flight diverted to BOS. I'm assuming fog was the problem, but whatever happened to the Cat III? I don't think fog stopped anything anywhere else in New England yesterday. Tough break for an early demonstration of benefits.

In some other thread a B6 mechanic said they're having issues with their embraer fleet. I might guess that could be a big part of the problem.

I'm not sure I follow you. Are you suggesting that maybe B6 is short a few E190s for mechanical issues and in looking for which flights to cancel, they chose all the ORH flights? I thought it was just the fog and the airline electing not to use the Cat III ILS, but I suppose it frees the working planes for other routes.

The localizer to 11 and 29 was OOS so the CATIII was useless. The MCO flight was impacted by a downline diversion away from HPN to JFK so flight 330 would've been delayed 6+ hours so they may have just rebooked everybody into BOS, PVD, and BDL and just cancelled it.

JFK's cancellation and FLL diversion were both, in fact, because of the fog and the localizer being OOS.

Has seasonal PWM - Montreal ever been tried? Old Orchard might well be the #1 summer vacation destination for Quebecoi, and I thought it was odd that Elite chose Halifax over Montreal when they decided to expand into Canada.

LotsaRunway wrote:

Often discussed is UA's lack of concern for New England outside of BOS, a friend of mine related his recent attempt at flying MHT-ORD the other day. He justified flying UA by saying he was taking the first flight in the morning, what could go wrong. When he showed up at the airport to check his bag, he was greeted with a 3-hour delay and was told it was quite common. Once it did take off, it went nonstop to Dayton instead of ORD, which he was told was not common. He was happy to arrive in ORD early enough in the day to be reaccommodated on a different connecting flight, but he ended up in a middle seat the rest of the way to LAX. Anyway, here's the track record for some of these UA flights at MHT. Maybe others can find and post some of the other chronically late flights in the region. All airlines have them, but some airlines don't make much attempt to spread the pain around and keep hitting the same cities. It seems the B6 JFK-ORH flight is an attempt to give ORH some extra service for a time when a plane is available, but it doesn't appear as if the airline is trying too hard to make it a good experience.

ZW3832 MHT-ORD Scheduled departure 6:45AM
5/7 8:49am
5/8 8:37am
5/9 8:23am
5/10 6:56am
5/11 6:54am
5/12 6:46am
5/14 10:10am
5/15 9:45am - sent to DAY
5/16 9:04am
5/17 8:56am

ZW3853 MHT-ORD Scheduled departure 6:10pm
5/7 6:10pm
5/8 8:35pm
5/9 7:27pm
5/10 7:07pm
5/11 6:17pm
5/12 7:22pm
5/13 6:27pm
5/14 Cancelled
5/15 10:39pm
5/16 8:35pm

A few Super Bowl Sundays ago I was scheduled to fly to San Francisco for a business trip that required that I be there Monday. So I booked the late-afternoon UA flight from MHT that gave me good connection time to the last ORD-SFO flight…a 777. Of course, the plane had to come in from Chicago before it could empty out and fill back up for the return, and it was running late. I saw my connection time evaporating before my eyes at MHT, and to make a long story short I just did miss the 777 and had to spend the night at a Des Plaines hotel. I was rebooked in the middle seat of a 737-900 next morning and it was no fun.

So, as someone who flew several times on UA 757s between MHT-ORD ‘back in the day,’ this was the last straw for me as far as UA and MHT. In fact the only times I now use MHT are for WN nonstop flights.

So, my observations are these: MHT doesn’t have to ‘prove’ it can support mainline flights. I was on those 757s many times, and they were always full. Now someone will whine, “But…but…but…YIELDS!” Come on. The fares MHT-ORD were more than BOS-ORD fares, so no one will convince me these were ‘money-losing’ flights.

Second, MHT is no further away from BOS than PVD is. Yet the fortunes of both airports have diverged. I don’t buy the argument than MHT is ‘too close’ to Boston to do well. Back in the early 2000s MHT was STILL the same 50 miles from Boston it is today.

Third, the UA RJ’s pull into gates FAR from the main B & C concourses at ORD. You need to factor in that time, and you’re exhausted if your connection time is slim. Nothing is worse than RUNNING to your next gate and you STILL miss the flight.

Fourth, You’re so much better off taking the morning flight rather than the late one for the reason I explained above. You literally have no way to get further west if you’re on that late flight and all the connections have left. At least in the morning you have some same-day options if you’re heading to SFO, SEA, LAX, SAN, PDX or wherever.

chrisnh wrote:

A few Super Bowl Sundays ago I was scheduled to fly to San Francisco for a business trip that required that I be there Monday. So I booked the late-afternoon UA flight from MHT that gave me good connection time to the last ORD-SFO flight…a 777. Of course, the plane had to come in from Chicago before it could empty out and fill back up for the return, and it was running late. I saw my connection time evaporating before my eyes at MHT, and to make a long story short I just did miss the 777 and had to spend the night at a Des Plaines hotel. I was rebooked in the middle seat of a 737-900 next morning and it was no fun.

So, as someone who flew several times on UA 757s between MHT-ORD ‘back in the day,’ this was the last straw for me as far as UA and MHT. In fact the only times I now use MHT are for WN nonstop flights.

So, my observations are these: MHT doesn’t have to ‘prove’ it can support mainline flights. I was on those 757s many times, and they were always full. Now someone will whine, “But…but…but…YIELDS!” Come on. The fares MHT-ORD were more than BOS-ORD fares, so no one will convince me these were ‘money-losing’ flights.

Second, MHT is no further away from BOS than PVD is. Yet the fortunes of both airports have diverged. I don’t buy the argument than MHT is ‘too close’ to Boston to do well. Back in the early 2000s MHT was STILL the same 50 miles from Boston it is today.

Third, the UA RJ’s pull into gates FAR from the main B & C concourses at ORD. You need to factor in that time, and you’re exhausted if your connection time is slim. Nothing is worse than RUNNING to your next gate and you STILL miss the flight.

Fourth, You’re so much better off taking the morning flight rather than the late one for the reason I explained above. You literally have no way to get further west if you’re on that late flight and all the connections have left. At least in the morning you have some same-day options if you’re heading to SFO, SEA, LAX, SAN, PDX or wherever.

I don't live in the area, but I have to agree with your assessment that the demand didn't just go away. I think MHT was somewhat inflated leading up to 2005, thanks to WN actually having cheap fares and Big Dig complications. But when WN fares started rising, B6 became a real go to airline at BOS and the airline mergers, Boston became the regional go to airport. Its growth has been unprecedented and the airlines don't want to offer so much at MHT (or even PVD and ORH) as to siphon off traffic that will drive to them at BOS. For what MHT has for flights, loads are good. Maybe there could be better demand for first class, but I don't think MHT is the front cabin type of market that BOS is. Airlines like B6 and WN don't really have front cabin, so MHT would theoretically be on equal economic footing with BOS with similar flight loads. But here's the kicker. On average, WN loads at BOS are lower than those at MHT and one would think they could add capacity at MHT. But data says if they keep MHT restricted and flights full, then the overflow will go to BOS to fill up the flights that aren't as full there. In other words, it's my belief, WN (and maybe others) need to keep MHT lean to help keep BOS full. Since fares at BOS are more competitive, they may need the BOS flights to be even more full that those at MHT to be equal in yield. I don't know how you break a cycle like this unless you give the market a competitive jolt. PVD got that jolt a bunch of months ago, but MHT has done nothing but tread water and trimming capacity to further feed flights at BOS.

MHT and PVD are the same distance but vastly different in catchment area sizes. People focus on the distance, that’s not what fills seats, people do.

The MHT high water mark was a true perfect storm of WN, the big dig and minimal B6 (100+ fewer low fare flights per day) at BOS

Fex180 wrote:

Has seasonal PWM - Montreal ever been tried? Old Orchard might well be the #1 summer vacation destination for Quebecoi, and I thought it was odd that Elite chose Halifax over Montreal when they decided to expand into Canada.

Yes, Air Canada flew year round to Montreal for a couple years from 1999-2001ish. More recently, in the last decade, Toronto was also served. Both flights utilized Beech 1900's.

March 2018 Bradley International Airport Passengers-

Total Passengers-

March 2018- 548,408 +3.5%
March 2017- 529,745


Domestic by Airline March 2018-

American- 137,352
Southwest- 128,644
Delta- 99,457
jetBlue- 72,470
Spirit- 50,916
United- 47,992
Onejet- 402

International by Airline March 2018-

March 2018 total International- 11,175

Aer Lingus- 4,559
Air Canada- 3,943
Delta (CUN flight)- 1,265
Norwegian- 1,408

American continues to lead the way at BDL in 2018 over Southwest. I believe Spirit overtook United for first time in March without looking back in 2017.

Cancun continues to do well with healthy loads, would Delta consider adding a flight or two during the peak season or maybe WN or B6 adds a weekly flight to give DL some competition.

If growth continues at 3-5% this year, BDL will see over 600k passengers this summer for the first time since 2005.

PVD posted nice March numbers, up 12.31% over March 2017 for a total of 347,598. Through March 2018, PVD is up 17.49%!

http://www.pvdairport.com/documents/pas ... 202018.pdf

MHT is down 4.4%for March while cargo is up 10% year to date.

tomaheath wrote:

MHT is down 4.4%for March while cargo is up 10% year to date.

Anyone taking bets on when MHT will slip below PWM?

Fex180 wrote:

tomaheath wrote:

MHT is down 4.4%for March while cargo is up 10% year to date.

Anyone taking bets on when MHT will slip below PWM?

When is the last time that happen?

uconn99 wrote:

American continues to lead the way at BDL in 2018 over Southwest. I believe Spirit overtook United for first time in March without looking back in 2017.

Cancun continues to do well with healthy loads, would Delta consider adding a flight or two during the peak season or maybe WN or B6 adds a weekly flight to give DL some competition.

If growth continues at 3-5% this year, BDL will see over 600k passengers this summer for the first time since 2005.

Great to see growth at BDL! Would be nice to see the long rumored weekly flight to MBJ on B6 finally come to fruition. And any thoughts on the possible viability of B6 to BNA and NK seasonal service to MSY out of BDL?

Fex180 wrote:

tomaheath wrote:

MHT is down 4.4%for March while cargo is up 10% year to date.

Anyone taking bets on when MHT will slip below PWM?

It can only happen if WN takes flights from MHT and gives them to PWM. LF first 2 months this year: MHT 81+%, PWM 79+%

chrisnh wrote:

It can only happen if WN takes flights from MHT and gives them to PWM. LF first 2 months this year: MHT 81+%, PWM 79+%

With F9 serving PWM, and much stronger US3 mainline presence in the summer..I think 2018 will see Portland bump Manchester as far as annual pax.

I haven’t seen this posted anywhere. But I looks like MHT is going to get a little new love for the first time in a long time. AA is adding a 4th daily CR9 to CLT in the early morning slot. It continues into at least the fall. During the summer, DL is bringing back a 717 on the DTW ron. In the fall, the ATL flight becomes an A319. The garbage is that DL drops LGA to a single daily CRJ and UA continues to do nothing more than sell promises of of a few dozen seats (they probably won’t be comfortable, on-time, or even on the scheduled day).

LotsaRunway wrote:

I haven’t seen this posted anywhere. But I looks like MHT is going to get a little new love for the first time in a long time. AA is adding a 4th daily CR9 to CLT in the early morning slot. It continues into at least the fall. During the summer, DL is bringing back a 717 on the DTW ron. In the fall, the ATL flight becomes an A319. The garbage is that DL drops LGA to a single daily CRJ and UA continues to do nothing more than sell promises of of a few dozen seats (they probably won’t be comfortable, on-time, or even on the scheduled day).

I had been passively curious as to what equipment DL would be using on ATL - MHT / PWM / PVD once the MD-88s and 90s are retired. Seems like the A319 is actually a reduction in capacity compared to the MD-90s

Fex180 wrote:

LotsaRunway wrote:

I haven’t seen this posted anywhere. But I looks like MHT is going to get a little new love for the first time in a long time. AA is adding a 4th daily CR9 to CLT in the early morning slot. It continues into at least the fall. During the summer, DL is bringing back a 717 on the DTW ron. In the fall, the ATL flight becomes an A319. The garbage is that DL drops LGA to a single daily CRJ and UA continues to do nothing more than sell promises of of a few dozen seats (they probably won’t be comfortable, on-time, or even on the scheduled day).

I had been passively curious as to what equipment DL would be using on ATL - MHT / PWM / PVD once the MD-88s and 90s are retired. Seems like the A319 is actually a reduction in capacity compared to the MD-90s

The A319s are about 15 to 20 seats short on the MD88s. I’m always amazed at how airlines take a non competitive route and replace an airplane that routinely runs full with a smaller aircraft to push up fares/yeilds. If FL was on the route, there would be multiple 738s.

RL757PVD wrote:

MHT and PVD are the same distance but vastly different in catchment area sizes. People focus on the distance, that’s not what fills seats, people do.

The MHT high water mark was a true perfect storm of WN, the big dig and minimal B6 (100+ fewer low fare flights per day) at BOS

I still believe the primary cause of demand destruction at MHT was from PWM getting Airtran and B6. Before these lower cost airlines started PWM service fares out of PWM were insane compared to MHT. I remember roughly 25% of the cars at the Highlander parking lot being from Maine at times. Once fares at PWM became competitive many folks from Maine like me stopped using MHT.

Back when I was Chairman's on US Air I remember $199 RT fares to Seattle out of MHT vs. $600 out of PWM.

I used to fly out of MHT several years ago due to price. SWA was to airline to fly out of MHT back in 2009-2014. It did not serve BOS because of the marketing campaign of SWA to fly out of mid level airports instead of large markets like BOS. Then Massport went on a binge and started to attract every airline that fly's. So when SWA started to fly out of BOS, numbers started to go down(not due to the big dig). When AirTran and JetBlue started PWM, then more left MHT and flew out of PWM instead on MHT. SWA controls 75% of the flights out of MHT. There is no love for the other airliners from MHT. So, Delta, United, and AA have moved to smaller aircraft (CRJ, EMB) and have kept the status quo. Why should an airline invest in an airport that relies on one airline, gives them all the space, gates, and cow tows to all their demands. If I was treated like the ugly step child, I would pull out and go somewhere else. The numbers show it. The terminal is like a pig with lipstick..the long term lots are closed, only the garage and one lot is open. My flight a couple of months ago to PWM was oversold from CLT, so I flew in MHT and had to rent a car. My plane was not full, does that tell you something. MHT has turned into a freight/cargo airport and with amazon looking could turn into more flights. During the summer, flights are over sold at PWM for SWA, so SWA sends its passengers to MHT via cabs due to the over capacity at MHT. PWM has a good mix of airlines and not one airline dominates the flights giving equal revenue opportunity. F9 and NK were looked at for the past 3 years to open at PWM. NK was going to set up shop but demanded too much from PWM, Strategically, F9 has PWM and PVD to draw people from the middle and from Canada. The only airline that is going to not like it will be G4 with ops at BGR and PSM.

paysonmt77 wrote:

During the summer, flights are over sold at PWM for SWA, so SWA sends its passengers to MHT via cabs due to the over capacity at MHT.

what?? WN sending passengers on an hour and a half drive in a taxi?? That sounds like a lose-lose for both the airline and passengers.

I've never heard of any airline doing this, let alone WN.

Load factors for WN at PWM are reasonable but to be honest Southwest has never seemed too interested in PWM. Even in the summer they only run 4x daily rt to BWI and limited Saturday service to MDW and MCO. If they really had severe capacity problems at PWM in previous years that would have been reflected in their summer schedule, which is still 4x daily to BWI,

Fex180 wrote:

paysonmt77 wrote:

During the summer, flights are over sold at PWM for SWA, so SWA sends its passengers to MHT via cabs due to the over capacity at MHT.

what?? WN sending passengers on an hour and a half drive in a taxi?? That sounds like a lose-lose for both the airline and passengers.

I've never heard of any airline doing this, let alone WN.

Load factors for WN at PWM are reasonable but to be honest Southwest has never seemed too interested in PWM. Even in the summer they only run 4x daily rt to BWI and limited Saturday service to MDW and MCO. If they really had severe capacity problems at PWM in previous years that would have been reflected in their summer schedule, which is still 4x daily to BWI,

I got a 45 minute trip between PBI and FLL once, when i had a 3 hour flight delay on B6 coming back to BOS actually was a SUV Limo not a cab even. Not sure how much that cost B6, but I was one happy customer. So it does happen, but is super rare and I agree not sure they would do that too much. Uber might make it a bit more reasonable these days, but still.

Jetport wrote:

RL757PVD wrote:

MHT and PVD are the same distance but vastly different in catchment area sizes. People focus on the distance, that’s not what fills seats, people do.

The MHT high water mark was a true perfect storm of WN, the big dig and minimal B6 (100+ fewer low fare flights per day) at BOS

I still believe the primary cause of demand destruction at MHT was from PWM getting Airtran and B6. Before these lower cost airlines started PWM service fares out of PWM were insane compared to MHT. I remember roughly 25% of the cars at the Highlander parking lot being from Maine at times. Once fares at PWM became competitive many folks from Maine like me stopped using MHT.

Back when I was Chairman's on US Air I remember $199 RT fares to Seattle out of MHT vs. $600 out of PWM.

I've always argued that when LCCs came to PWM and lowered average fares on all carriers which served cities you could reach on the LCCs, this only drove more passengers away from MHT. Of the 1.5 million people in Maine, 3/4 live in the southern portion of the state. There were a lot of people who use to go to MHT and BOS who no longer do. Including me. PWM is always the same or cheaper. Especially factoring in ground transport to MHT or BOS. No reason to go to those places anymore.

I've never heard of any airline doing this, let alone WN.

Load factors for WN at PWM are reasonable but to be honest Southwest has never seemed too interested in PWM. Even in the summer they only run 4x daily rt to BWI and limited Saturday service to MDW and MCO. If they really had severe capacity problems at PWM in previous years that would have been reflected in their summer schedule, which is still 4x daily to BWI,

When the airline is overbooked, or there's a mechanical issue and there's no seats for a day or two, an hour and a half cab ride paid by the airline isn't a bad trade off. It beats waiting a couple days.

I've never been sent to catch a flight at MHT when I was suppose to go out of PWM, but DL has sent me to BOS at their expense to catch a flight when they coudont accommodate me at PWM.

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

I've always argued that when LCCs came to PWM and lowered average fares on all carriers which served cities you could reach on the LCCs, this only drove more passengers away from MHT. Of the 1.5 million people in Maine, 3/4 live in the southern portion of the state. There were a lot of people who use to go to MHT and BOS who no longer do. Including me. PWM is always the same or cheaper. Especially factoring in ground transport to MHT or BOS. No reason to go to those places anymore.

I can attest to this. Growing up in Maine in the late 90s and early 2000s, whenever family or friends talked about flying somewhere, they were flying out of MHT. Southern Maine was a huge part of MHTs catchment area and now the tables are almost completely turned. I live in Portland now and every time I'm at the PWM garage I see quite a few New Hampshire plates.

paysonmt77 wrote:

I used to fly out of MHT several years ago due to price. SWA was to airline to fly out of MHT back in 2009-2014. It did not serve BOS because of the marketing campaign of SWA to fly out of mid level airports instead of large markets like BOS. Then Massport went on a binge and started to attract every airline that fly's. So when SWA started to fly out of BOS, numbers started to go down(not due to the big dig). When AirTran and JetBlue started PWM, then more left MHT and flew out of PWM instead on MHT. SWA controls 75% of the flights out of MHT. There is no love for the other airliners from MHT. So, Delta, United, and AA have moved to smaller aircraft (CRJ, EMB) and have kept the status quo. Why should an airline invest in an airport that relies on one airline, gives them all the space, gates, and cow tows to all their demands. If I was treated like the ugly step child, I would pull out and go somewhere else. The numbers show it. The terminal is like a pig with lipstick..the long term lots are closed, only the garage and one lot is open. My flight a couple of months ago to PWM was oversold from CLT, so I flew in MHT and had to rent a car. My plane was not full, does that tell you something. MHT has turned into a freight/cargo airport and with amazon looking could turn into more flights. During the summer, flights are over sold at PWM for SWA, so SWA sends its passengers to MHT via cabs due to the over capacity at MHT. PWM has a good mix of airlines and not one airline dominates the flights giving equal revenue opportunity. F9 and NK were looked at for the past 3 years to open at PWM. NK was going to set up shop but demanded too much from PWM, Strategically, F9 has PWM and PVD to draw people from the middle and from Canada. The only airline that is going to not like it will be G4 with ops at BGR and PSM.

There are a number of things in this post that don't sound quite right. If a flight is full at PWM, I don't think any airline is going to pay for a cab to send the passenger to another airport unless it's somehow the airline's fault and sending the passenger to another airport is the only possible solution. Chances are, they would rebook them on a later flight or put them on another airline. The claim that PWM WN flights are full and MHT is over capacity is statistically challenged. Both airports have very similar average load capacities and WN does very, very well in filling its MHT flights. There are a few off prime time flights that bring down the average, but most are full most of the time. Same thing with MHT-CLT flights, enough so that AA is adding a 4th frequency later this year. It sounds like you have something against MHT, which is your prerogative, and you are welcome to use the airports you like best. When I travel into New England, I usually like to try to use the smaller airports and MHT and PVD are my favorites. BOS gives me a headache and I find using it is stressful, but it does offer nonstops and low fares. PWM is a very nice facility as well.

Finally, PWM once bled a lot of passengers to MHT and BOS and I'm pleased to see that is is now recapturing its own market much better. It does have a great mix of airlines and low fares. MHT is too dependent on one airline (although I don't think that airline dominates by 75%). It really needs B6 and to ensure that the flights it has, operate reliably. I think the lack of flight reliability at MHT has really hurt it. Business flyers take note when they get stuck or delayed and avoid them next time around.

I drive for an executive car business and I see first hand what is happening on the ground at MHT, PWM, and BOS. Load capacities provided by airports are just numbers on a piece of paper. During the summer, I drive a lot of people from PWM to NH due to no United to IAD and the lack of flight options and they like PWM better. This is from the customers...More of regular customers used to be picked up at Logan, but find it easier to fly to PWM now with more options and the ease of security. I have not picked up a customer at MHT in 2 years. I used to go there at least once a week. Most of my logan runs are for international and direct flights for business people. I am now seeing more limos/black car service from Portsmouth pick up customers than usual. My explanation about cabs going to MHT comes from the ground transportation people at PWM where they keep track of overbooked flights, cancelled flights, and send cabs to BOS and MHT. No airport is going to mention they have to do this. I see this firsthand...PWM is also strapped for parking and now is shuttling its employees to an off site lot due to demand, so the 3rd phase of the expanded garage is in the plans as well as an FIS to be built 2019/2020

2005 PWM at 734,000 enplanements, MHT had 2,149,000 enplanements

2018 is shaping up to be pretty close,for the two around the 950,000 mark, meaning that PWM only accounts for about 15-20% of the MHT blood loss.

This would be a good thing because they stand a better chance of seeing an uptick from BOS pax as things fill up there.

Here is a great DOT tool to look at Airport stats for passengers, just select the airport you want to look at..it gives you a years worth of data. The last one is load factor
www.transtats.bts.gov
or https://www.transtats.bts.gov/data_elements.aspx?data=5

paysonmt77 wrote:

Here is a great DOT tool to look at Airport stats for passengers, just select the airport you want to look at..it gives you a years worth of data. The last one is load factor
http://www.transtats.bts.gov
or https://www.transtats.bts.gov/data_elements.aspx?data=5

just be careful with that because it's not combined data, to get the full data you have to toggle back and forth between Origin and Destination information (not to be confused with true O&D data)

tomaheath wrote:

MHT is down 4.4%for March while cargo is up 10% year to date.

When I see numbers down, I have to ask if it's because demand is down or capacity is down. It seems that load factor was higher than a year ago, so I'm guessing a capacity cut drove down numbers. Remember, on most airlines those last few seats are expensive so I bet this was a push to sell a few more of those to drive up yields.

Fex180 wrote:

paysonmt77 wrote:

During the summer, flights are over sold at PWM for SWA, so SWA sends its passengers to MHT via cabs due to the over capacity at MHT.

what?? WN sending passengers on an hour and a half drive in a taxi?? That sounds like a lose-lose for both the airline and passengers.

I've never heard of any airline doing this, let alone WN.

They do this from BOS as well when storms leave large masses of passengers stranded. It's normal for them.

I’ve been told that any delays or cancellations do to the weather the pax is responsible to getting themselves to a alternate airport mechanical the airline pays for transportation and or lodging.

The little war going on between DL and B6 at BOS could have a positive impact for MHT and to a lesser extent PVD and PWM. If carriers like WN start to get pushed out of the Boston market (mostly by B6 route expansion and competitive pricing) the best alternative option is to expand service in the three airports they serve that surround the Boston metro.

Right on the heels of releasing March '18 numbers, BDL has continued a decent year with April 2018 up 4.8%.


April 2018 Bradley International Airport Passengers-

Total Passengers-

April 2018- 579,659 +4.8%
April 2017- 553,182


Domestic by Airline April 2018-

Southwest- 150,383
American- 137,348
Delta- 107,835
jetBlue- 74,299
United- 59,762
Spirit- 37,170
Onejet- 426

International by Airline April 2018-

April 2018 total International- 12,436

Aer Lingus- 7,317
Air Canada- 4,066
Delta (CUN flight)- 1,053
Norwegian- 0 (bye bye)

PenAir has now broken every lower 48 EAS contract they had in less than one year.

http://thecounty.me/2018/05/30/news/pen ... nth-early/

They just dumped Plattsburg, Presque Isle and Bar Harbor (to Bos) with the last flights being tomorrow, a full month before their contract was to end and once again leaving customers in the lurch. It will be interesting to see if United steps up and starts service early to Presque Isle - planned for July 1st. The Northern Maine Regional Airport is actually in the middle of constructing a bigger waiting area for the 50 seat ERJ. Skywest has already said they will not be able to do Plattsburg until August. Silver Airways just got the Bar Harbor contract so they are probably in the same boat.

Fex180 wrote:

The little war going on between DL and B6 at BOS could have a positive impact for MHT and to a lesser extent PVD and PWM. If carriers like WN start to get pushed out of the Boston market (mostly by B6 route expansion and competitive pricing) the best alternative option is to expand service in the three airports they serve that surround the Boston metro.

Lower prices and more destinations from more competition at BOS is not going to help MHT, PWM or PVD.

It appears Amazon Prime will be flying into BDL with them moving flights over from PVD. Not sure where they plan on parking, the Fedex ramp is busy most days with 2-3 planes on the ground along with DHL and their 737.

The master plan calls for additional cargo ramp space but that is a few years away.

http://www.wpri.com/business-news/logis ... 1212898420

uconn99 wrote:

It appears Amazon Prime will be flying into BDL with them moving flights over from PVD. Not sure where they plan on parking, the Fedex ramp is busy most days with 2-3 planes on the ground along with DHL and their 737.

The master plan calls for additional cargo ramp space but that is a few years away.

http://www.wpri.com/business-news/logis ... 1212898420

"Business reason unrelated to PVD's performance" pretty abrupt move.

This says it all....unions....

A union, Local 251 of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, filed a complaint against Pinnacle with the National Labor Relations Board last November that resulted in a settlement, according to Marc Gursky, a lawyer for the Teamsters. The complaint alleged Pinnacle had fired three employees who were trying to unionize the Rhode Island facility.

"I know Amazon is a notoriously anti-union company and has been fighting unions in its various facilities since 1994, so it would not surprise me to learn that Amazon and Pinnacle decided to close this operation in retaliation for the union activity," Gursky told Eyewitness News.

Gursky said the Teamsters filed a new complaint against Pinnacle on Friday afternoon, alleging that the company had engaged in unfair labor practice by closing the plant to retaliate for the unionization effort.

The Teamsters said Elsea, the Pinnacle executive, threatened to close the facility during a meeting last December if the employees continued trying to organize.

AA bumped up ORH to twice daily on 145s.

Flights leave ORH at 618A and 419P, leaving PHL at 255P and 929P. As little as $133 RT in basic economy.