tomaheath wrote:

This September UA pulls the plug on ORD flights out of Manchester.

Wow and to think the route used to be several daily with multiple 757s on it.

Trk1 wrote:

Connecting at ord is not a problem. Thousands connect from term 2 to 1 daily with little problem. The problem is people do not want to fly from Manchester

I agree - I can find a $55 flight for tomorrow am at this time from Logan - the next flight at 7:55 am is also available for $55. If I use my corporate website, I can find it for $30 (it's not the busiest week but still it speaks on how the industry is functioning). There are close to 16 direct flights from Logan - it is very difficult for MHT or any other airport in the vicinity to compete in this space for the frequency and price. Most corporate contracts are available from Logan. It will take a lot of efforts and some innovation on the part of airports such as MHT and maybe even PVD to project themselves attractive compared to BOS.

B752OS wrote:

chrisnh wrote:

It was inevitable but the service was poor. Unless ORD was your destination, connecting onward was a horrible ordeal. AA might come in to serve ORD, they might not. But whether they do or don’t won’t be MHT management at work. They draw big paychecks to serves as little more than janitors of the place. They will say that economics pulled UA out of this market. But if AA steps in, they’ll beat their chests and scream, “LOOK WHAT WE DID!”

Connecting at ORD is not that bad, it's a lot easier than at say ATL or DFW.

I missed a connection once at ORD and had to spend the night in a hotel because the SFO flight pulled away from the gate moments before I reached it. The RJ gates aren’t anywhere near the B/C Concourse.

My take on poor loads is the same as poor food in a restaurant: you fix things to make it better instead of whining. The restaurant changes the menu and does all sorts of things. UA changed nothing. Poorly-timed flights on tiny, chronically late RJ’s. And with very slim choices should connections go sideways (as they did with me), no wonder people are choosing Logan. But a better ‘menu’ (I.e better planes and times) and people would come back to the UA ‘restaurant.’ Having flown on full UA 757s To & from MHT the fact is, the market is strong. The demographics say so.

Bradley International Airport Receives ‘A+’ Revenue Bond Rating
Article: http://www.aviationpros.com/press_relea ... ond-rating

Trk1 wrote:

The problem is people do not want to fly from Manchester

There is some truth to this, but I have to ask. How could one of the world's largest airlines not be able to fill a few planes between a 2 million passenger market and the worlds busiest airport? Answer, don't give them what they want. Yes, People are preferring BOS to MHT, but UA is just killing several New England airports with neglect. Consider UA's recent changes at BDL. At MHT, they put CRJs up against WN 737s on a two hour flight and charge more for it and think you are going to fill it? UA killed MHT-ORD when they pulled mainline and then drove the stake into it when it dropped CR7s for ERJs and CRJs. Because of their size, the 50-seat RJs were often delayed or cancelled. With BOS nearby, people just didn't want to bother with the uncertainty and discomfort any more and took the drive south. It will be interesting to see if AA gives it a try. AA carries a significantly better reputation at MHT than UA currently has.

LotsaRunway wrote:

Trk1 wrote:

The problem is people do not want to fly from Manchester

There is some truth to this, but I have to ask. How could one of the world's largest airlines not be able to fill a few planes between a 2 million passenger market and the worlds busiest airport? Answer, don't give them what they want. Yes, People are preferring BOS to MHT, but UA is just killing several New England airports with neglect. Consider UA's recent changes at BDL. At MHT, they put CRJs up against WN 737s on a two hour flight and charge more for it and think you are going to fill it? UA killed MHT-ORD when they pulled mainline and then drove the stake into it when it dropped CR7s for ERJs and CRJs. Because of their size, the 50-seat RJs were often delayed or cancelled. With BOS nearby, people just didn't want to bother with the uncertainty and discomfort any more and took the drive south. It will be interesting to see if AA gives it a try. AA carries a significantly better reputation at MHT than UA currently has.

Great point - but IMO I think that UA is focusing all their operations in BOS vs. any of the secondary airports in NE. There is heavy competition with B6, AA (at ORD) and very soon DL may end up jumping into some of the routes. I just do not know when DL timing maybe. Please do not take this as being otherwise being negative about MHT - but what could they do? There are so many travel options available from NH to Logan nowadays (not counting drive) and the Mass. economy is humming - I do not see an option for NH to match the scale of economy and business - not counting downtown and Cambridge here. People seem content to go to BOS and I have known so many of my close friends and colleagues travel to Logan who live in places like Nashua, Salem, etc.

To be fair to the 'rest' of New England, UA is sending an A320 and an A319 to PWM, and (2) A319s + one A320 to BTV. Count me among the folks who would PREFER to fly from MHT but who ALSO have come to grips with using Logan. I live as far south as you can be in New Hampshire (my two acres goes right to the border), so getting the bus in Tyngsboro is convenient as is the PreFlight lot when my flights are earlier than the first bus south.

Having said this, I do think AA will likely fill the MHT-ORD void. With flights to PHL and CLT already, it's not a lot for them to add that route.

chrisnh wrote:

Fex180 wrote:

Revelation wrote:

Instead of what, defending the realm from the MHTs, PVDs, and ISPs of the world while B6 becomes totally dominant at BOS and JFK? Might make for an interesting MBA project.

There's no reason WN can't have a token presence at BOS, it certainly does them no harm. But as of right now they seem very uninterested in basically all of their New England markets, especially MHT and PWM.

Totally agree with that. But in its place they seem to be enamored with places like Buffalo and Albany at the moment. Perhaps it's them trying to curry favor with NY politicians in the same way that B6 going to Worcester was a way to curry favor with Massport. All about greasing the skids with folks who can help. Boosting service at BUF and ALB might get them better LGA access...who knows how the game under the hood is really played.

Its important to remember WN has limited planes to work with currently. They just phased out the 300's and are waiting for more Max deliveries. Their CEO is on record saying they are limiting expansion until the additional MAX resources come into the fleet. Naturally MHT wouldn't be high up on potential places to expand. But time will tell if they show it some more love once they have more planes.

chrisnh wrote:

To be fair to the 'rest' of New England, UA is sending an A320 and an A319 to PWM, and (2) A319s + one A320 to BTV. Count me among the folks who would PREFER to fly from MHT but who ALSO have come to grips with using Logan. I live as far south as you can be in New Hampshire (my two acres goes right to the border), so getting the bus in Tyngsboro is convenient as is the PreFlight lot when my flights are earlier than the first bus south.

Having said this, I do think AA will likely fill the MHT-ORD void. With flights to PHL and CLT already, it's not a lot for them to add that route.

Good catch! BTV and PWM are doing well with UA, but there is no MDW nonstop competition with WN. And even though PVD is getting some ORD mainline out of UA, the schedule and aircraft type has been schizophrenic over the year. UA cannot be doing well with FF business travelers. This type of scheduling mostly attracts leisure low fare seekers. I worry about the trajectory of UA at PVD as well.

I wonder how long it will be before UA pulls the plug completely on MHT? All they have left is x3 ERJs to EWR through the fall and then x2 ERJs through the winter. As I recall, those winter EWR ERJs have hellish on-time/cancellation rates. There will be no UA options when EWR clogs up we know ERJ/CRJs are the bottom of the foodchain at UA.

Trk1 wrote:

Connecting at ord is not a problem. Thousands connect from term 2 to 1 daily with little problem. The problem is people do not want to fly from Manchester

But why? I've been a long time UA FF. Yes I'm one of those rare New England based UA FF'ers
I go out of my way to fly UA and *A and despite being a FF for well over a decade and living closer to MHT than to BOS I have never flown UA out of MHT.
Why? Because the fares are ridiculously high compared to BOS. And connecting at ORD in the Winter is a crap shoot (or EWR for that matter). I'll choose a connection in DEN over ORD/EWR every time.

airbazar wrote:

Trk1 wrote:

Connecting at ord is not a problem. Thousands connect from term 2 to 1 daily with little problem. The problem is people do not want to fly from Manchester

But why? I've been a long time UA FF. Yes I'm one of those rare New England based UA FF'ers
I go out of my way to fly UA and *A and despite being a FF for well over a decade and living closer to MHT than to BOS I have never flown UA out of MHT.
Why? Because the fares are ridiculously high compared to BOS. And connecting at ORD in the Winter is a crap shoot (or EWR for that matter). I'll choose a connection in DEN over ORD/EWR every time.

Exactly. People who say that 'connecting at ORD is not a problem' are foolish. If THEY'VE never had a problem, then no one has. Yeah...OK.

Having been on a parked United 747-400 in Milwaukee for five hours because of thunderstorms in Chicago, I can tell you that connecting IS a risk.

Does anyone have the passenger and landing fees for PWM, BGR, BOS, BTV, PVD, MHT, and BDL. I am curious to see if the fees at MHT are scaring away the airlines. Did new gate and counter contracts at MHT go sour for UA? When PWM was going to expand, UA was the only airline not to be on board and did not like the increase in the passenger fees. They finally caved in. Also United at PWM has a station manager and is using UA ground crew vs outsourcing to GAT. Since those changes, Maineline has showed up to PWM. PWM also built an extended jetway off gate 1 for United and is upgrading Gate 1a, b, c for United. What has MHT done for its airlines lately?

paysonmt77 wrote:

Does anyone have the passenger and landing fees for PWM, BGR, BOS, BTV, PVD, MHT, and BDL. I am curious to see if the fees at MHT are scaring away the airlines. Did new gate and counter contracts at MHT go sour for UA? When PWM was going to expand, UA was the only airline not to be on board and did not like the increase in the passenger fees. They finally caved in. Also United at PWM has a station manager and is using UA ground crew vs outsourcing to GAT. Since those changes, Maineline has showed up to PWM. PWM also built an extended jetway off gate 1 for United and is upgrading Gate 1a, b, c for United. What has MHT done for its airlines lately?

Also worth noting that PWM has added a jetway / walkway on the western end of the terminal to give AA more ramp space and soon after AA announced PWM-LGA and ORD. Hats off to Jetport management because they really do seem to think long term.

^ The jetway/walkway (temporary gates 12-14) on the western end of the terminal is where a three gate expansion will take place a few years down the road. First priority was to extend the aprons on both ends with the eastern phase well underway and almost complete.

MHT has been discussed recently for negative yet justifiable reasons. But today (Saturday) FedEx will fly an MD-11 here from Columbia, SC and then onward to Cologne, Germany. It’s due in around 3pm and it’s a nice day.

The benefits of a 9250 ft runway which is an asset for MHT's growing cargo business. Still annoyed that LL Bean trucks their product to Manchester via UPS instead of utilizing PWM which is 90 miles closer. They market the Maine lifestyle but don't reward it's local airport, though I hear they do utilize Portland's container port for some European destinations. MHT has an excellent infrastructure in place and is only one new carrier (Spirit?) away from regaining a portion of it's former glory.

I recently had to help someone buy multiple tickets for people out west mostly to the Dartmouth area of NH pretty much exactly between BTV and MHT and Burlington was way cheaper on each ticket.

Wasn't even close, MHT seems expensive unless your headed to a southwest N/S city the legacy prices just seemed nuts like they were not even trying to compete out of there.

Frontier 514 DEN-PWM just landed with a lot of fanfare and a water cannon salute. To my knowledge it's the first commercial arrival at PWM from west of the Mississippi.

Northwest used to fly from PWM-MSP, after the merger with Delta, the route was discontinued.

tomaheath wrote:

This September UA pulls the plug on ORD flights out of Manchester.

It will definitely return when the next presidential election starts gearing up.

Portlander wrote:

The benefits of a 9250 ft runway which is an asset for MHT's growing cargo business. Still annoyed that LL Bean trucks their product to Manchester via UPS instead of utilizing PWM which is 90 miles closer. They market the Maine lifestyle but don't reward it's local airport, though I hear they do utilize Portland's container port for some European destinations. MHT has an excellent infrastructure in place and is only one new carrier (Spirit?) away from regaining a portion of it's former glory.

For years, Fedex had the L.L. Bean shipping contract. PWM always had at least two FX aircraft on the ramp to support this. One flight to EWR, and one flight to MEM, and sometimes an add on to either of these, or BOS.

UPS got the contract about eight years ago. That's when FX reduced capacity and only operates to MEM once per day these days.

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

Portlander wrote:

The benefits of a 9250 ft runway which is an asset for MHT's growing cargo business. Still annoyed that LL Bean trucks their product to Manchester via UPS instead of utilizing PWM which is 90 miles closer. They market the Maine lifestyle but don't reward it's local airport, though I hear they do utilize Portland's container port for some European destinations. MHT has an excellent infrastructure in place and is only one new carrier (Spirit?) away from regaining a portion of it's former glory.

For years, Fedex had the L.L. Bean shipping contract. PWM always had at least two FX aircraft on the ramp to support this. One flight to EWR, and one flight to MEM, and sometimes an add on to either of these, or BOS.

UPS got the contract about eight years ago. That's when FX reduced capacity and only operates to MEM once per day these days.

Maybe PWM moving and expanding their cargo area will help lure traffic back. I know that's on their to-do list within the next few years.

Just wanted to chime in to say that the explosive DY growth at PVD surprised me. I didn't know they were using two gates there, and had all those destinations.

Although... the last time I was in PVD was in 1997... flying a WN 732 to MCO!

Nice marketing New Haven, good luck!

Portlander wrote:

Nice marketing New Haven, good luck!

There is talk of AA adding a forth HVN-PHL flight. Loads continue to be very good and the appeal court case for allowing the overruns to be paved should be in the fall.

nmdrdh787 wrote:

Just wanted to chime in to say that the explosive DY growth at PVD surprised me. I didn't know they were using two gates there, and had all those destinations.

Although... the last time I was in PVD was in 1997... flying a WN 732 to MCO!

They have 3 departures within 90 minutes on Tuesdays, Thursday's, and Saturdays.

New Haven has had so much unfair opposition in it's attempt to lengthen it's 5600 ft runway, paving the overruns will hopefully help AA improve service in the future. New Haven has always been my favorite CT city and is also the birthplace of one of the finest female singers in the history of pop music!

Anybody have information on how JetBlue's seasonal service to HYA from JFK is doing this year? When it started up a few years ago, officials from HYA were optimistic that other carriers might add HYA as a destination as well but that hasn't come to fruition. There are a lot of people on the Cape that loathe driving to BOS (and paying for expensive parking) but don't want to fly the smaller props from Cape Air. Regular RJ service from UA, AA or DL would be successful, I think. What do you think is stopping them?

PVD757 wrote:

nmdrdh787 wrote:

Just wanted to chime in to say that the explosive DY growth at PVD surprised me. I didn't know they were using two gates there, and had all those destinations.

Although... the last time I was in PVD was in 1997... flying a WN 732 to MCO!

They have 3 departures within 90 minutes on Tuesdays, Thursday's, and Saturdays.

Jeeze. Must be an efficient turnaround.

Portlander wrote:

New Haven has had so much unfair opposition in it's attempt to lengthen it's 5600 ft runway, paving the overruns will hopefully help AA improve service in the future. New Haven has always been my favorite CT city and is also the birthplace of one of the finest female singers in the history of pop music!

Allegiant has said they would start service pending the runway upgrade.

Delays and diversions at PWM today due to no-gear landing.

https://www.newscentermaine.com/article ... -573101075

Fex180 wrote:

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

Portlander wrote:

The benefits of a 9250 ft runway which is an asset for MHT's growing cargo business. Still annoyed that LL Bean trucks their product to Manchester via UPS instead of utilizing PWM which is 90 miles closer. They market the Maine lifestyle but don't reward it's local airport, though I hear they do utilize Portland's container port for some European destinations. MHT has an excellent infrastructure in place and is only one new carrier (Spirit?) away from regaining a portion of it's former glory.

For years, Fedex had the L.L. Bean shipping contract. PWM always had at least two FX aircraft on the ramp to support this. One flight to EWR, and one flight to MEM, and sometimes an add on to either of these, or BOS.

UPS got the contract about eight years ago. That's when FX reduced capacity and only operates to MEM once per day these days.

Maybe PWM moving and expanding their cargo area will help lure traffic back. I know that's on their to-do list within the next few years.

There is nowhere to expand the cargo area. The current cargo area can already hold up to four narrow body jets, or three narrow body's and a A300 sized plane. During Christmas rush when FX had the LL bean contract, there would occasionally be three-four FX 727's, and an AirBorne Express/DHL DC-9 on the same ramp.

The one daily 757 FX flight to MEM is enough to support the limited overnight demand from Maine's small population, otherwise they would have increased capacity. Fedex Two-day packages are usually trucked to BOS from PWM, as well as most of the Maine's USPS two-day Priority Mail that Fedex has the postal service contract to carry.

Don't forget, Wiggins flies overnight UPS packages from LEW, WVL, BGR, PWM, and maybe PQI, to MHT using EMB-110's. UPS has a sort facility adjacent to the LEW airport.

Doesn't make sense to fly UPS metal to PWM when the majority of packages can take a much cheaper two hour ride in an 18 wheeler to MHT or BOS. If they need to go overnight and there's no time to truck the parcels after then 5pm shutoff, that's what are the UPS connector flights with Wiggins are for out of the small airports.

With LL Bean now using UPS for shipping, there's plenty of time to get the orders ready and on a truck to MHT in the afternoon to meet the evening flights at MHT or BOS. (I've even had UPS two and three days packages arrive into BDL and then get trucked to Maine.)

In regards to MHT's 9K runway, none of those cargo heavies out of MHT to UPS or Fedex hubs east of the Mississippi would need the 9,000 feet for a flight less than 1000 miles.

According to someone in the AA thread... PVD-MIA on AA is coming in December, I would think that would mean DFW shouldn’t be too far behind.

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

Fex180 wrote:

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

For years, Fedex had the L.L. Bean shipping contract. PWM always had at least two FX aircraft on the ramp to support this. One flight to EWR, and one flight to MEM, and sometimes an add on to either of these, or BOS.

UPS got the contract about eight years ago. That's when FX reduced capacity and only operates to MEM once per day these days.

Maybe PWM moving and expanding their cargo area will help lure traffic back. I know that's on their to-do list within the next few years.

There is nowhere to expand the cargo area. The current cargo area can already hold up to four narrow body jets, or three narrow body's and a A300 sized plane. During Christmas rush when FX had the LL bean contract, there would occasionally be three-four FX 727's, and an AirBorne Express/DHL DC-9 on the same ramp.

The one daily 757 FX flight to MEM is enough to support the limited overnight demand from Maine's small population, otherwise they would have increased capacity. Fedex Two-day packages are usually trucked to BOS from PWM, as well as most of the Maine's USPS two-day Priority Mail that Fedex has the postal service contract to carry.

Don't forget, Wiggins flies overnight UPS packages from LEW, WVL, BGR, PWM, and maybe PQI, to MHT using EMB-110's. UPS has a sort facility adjacent to the LEW airport.

Doesn't make sense to fly UPS metal to PWM when the majority of packages can take a much cheaper two hour ride in an 18 wheeler to MHT or BOS. If they need to go overnight and there's no time to truck the parcels after then 5pm shutoff, that's what are the UPS connector flights with Wiggins are for out of the small airports.

With LL Bean now using UPS for shipping, there's plenty of time to get the orders ready and on a truck to MHT in the afternoon to meet the evening flights at MHT or BOS. (I've even had UPS two and three days packages arrive into BDL and then get trucked to Maine.)

In regards to MHT's 9K runway, none of those cargo heavies out of MHT to UPS or Fedex hubs east of the Mississippi would need the 9,000 feet for a flight less than 1000 miles.

The 2016 Jetport master plan does call for an expansion to the air cargo apron to the south and building a new taxiway between the current cargo area and taxiway A parallel to 18 / 36 . The current FedEx building would be re-purposed for airport storage and maintenance.

Just curious. The other day numerous flights to PWM were diverted due to a runway issue with a small plane. Do the passengers on those Portland bound flights count for PWM's enplanements or does MHT and BOS or any other airport they landed at get the credit?

Portlander wrote:

Just curious. The other day numerous flights to PWM were diverted due to a runway issue with a small plane. Do the passengers on those Portland bound flights count for PWM's enplanements or does MHT and BOS or any other airport they landed at get the credit?

Depends on what happens ultimately. If they land at MHT or BOS and deplane they will count in their numbers as inbound pax, i see this a lot in the T-100 reports with diverts happening, although it's often hard to figure those out unless it's international. But BOS will certainly count them, because they will be able to charge landing fees etc.
If they land at BOS/MHT and park before going to PWM on the same plane, that's a little muddier, given that the pax never actually hit the terminal. So in that situation i would say no.

^ Thanks for the info.

AA is adding PVD-MIA.
12/19/18 - 4/2/19
A319 daily
PVD 0600-0935 MIA
MIA 2050-2352 PVD

PVD757 wrote:

AA is adding PVD-MIA.
12/19/18 - 4/2/19
A319 daily
PVD 0600-0935 MIA
MIA 2050-2352 PVD

It's too bad it's not year round. Either way it's a great add for AA and PVD. Now people can tap into the extensive AA Caribbean network for vacations and VFR trips.

F9 is extending PWM-MCO through February. 4x weekly (Mon-Wed-Fri-Sat) Much more reasonable schedule for the winter, no midnight arrival at MCO

MCO-PWM
11:00 - 14:00

PWM-MCO
14:50 - 18:10

no new winter routes from PWM announced yet.

Great news, do you think it's due to Frontier's entry in to the Orlando market?

Portlander wrote:

Great news, do you think it's due to Frontier's entry in to the Orlando market?

F9 is the abbreviation for Frontier, so yes that's exactly the reason.

PWM recieved $3.9 million from the FA for apron and new taxiway construction. This is in addition to the $ 2 million granted by the city of Portland for landside improvements such as signage and sidewalks. Also, Interior renovations inside the terminal will begin in September.

from the Portland Pres Herald : https://www.pressherald.com/2018/07/18/ ... struction/

The "blue" steel framework/trusses along the front of the terminal will also get a new coat of "grey" paint to better match the steel trim on the parking garage.

Manchester has a new director starting this fall. http://www.unionleader.com/business/hou ... t-20180718

BDL will fix two taxiways C and R with a $13.2 million grant from the Federal Aviation Administration: http://www.courant.com/business/hc-biz- ... story.html

tomaheath wrote:

Manchester has a new director starting this fall. http://www.unionleader.com/business/hou ... t-20180718

How long before this person gets a slagging here on a.net?

paysonmt77 wrote:

Northwest used to fly from PWM-MSP, after the merger with Delta, the route was discontinued.

IIRC, that was a single CR2 that lasted one summer season.

Happily, the CR2s that used to fly DTW-PWM have been upgauged to CR9s (and even a 717 for summer).

Revelation wrote:

tomaheath wrote:

Manchester has a new director starting this fall. http://www.unionleader.com/business/hou ... t-20180718

How long before this person gets a slagging here on a.net?

He's going to be a disappointment if he doesn't bring in B6 on his first week on the job.