mjgbtv
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:41 pm

It is official that Frontier is starting at BTV. Looks like only MCO for now; 2x/week. I hope they do well and look forward to seeing some different livery and the 320neo, but as a traveler I'm not sure that their model is for me.
 
tomaheath
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:44 pm

New director starts October 1st. He did mention that Manchester’s fees were high for its size. He definitely wants to lower those fees.
 
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LotsaRunway
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:48 pm

Hmm, PSM-MCO? That should put some heat on WN's MHT-MCO. It will be interesting what, if anything WN does to respond.
Doesn't Allegent already run something to Florida from PSM? It will be interesting to see if they can co-exist at PSM.
 
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pwm2txlhopper
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:50 pm

I did not expect to see Frontier at PSM. Interesting.

The only air service PSM has ever received was BEX-Delta Connection during in the mid-1990s for a short time after Pease AFB closed and it became a civilian airport. Then Pan AM IV for a couple years. Skybus for a very short time. Then Allegiant, who came and left, came back, and has held on there for several years now.

I've used PSM on occasion for cheap Allegiant flights to FLL (discontinued) and MYR, SFB. Love the free parking and one gate terminal the size of my living room. You can often fly to Florida for $120 roundtrip. Not sure how either airline will make money when they start trying to offer competitive fares? They're already so low out of PSM to the limited 3-4 destinations they serve.
Last edited by pwm2txlhopper on Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
georgiabill
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:52 pm

With F9 entering PSM I am wondering on the impact of G4 at PSM. Could we see G4 adding 2 weekly PSM-PGD PSM-MRY or PSM-RSW?
 
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pwm2txlhopper
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:55 pm

georgiabill wrote:
With F9 entering PSM I am wondering on the impact of G4 at PSM. Could we see G4 adding 2 weekly PSM-PGD PSM-MRY or PSM-RSW?



They were already flying to PSM- PGD twice weekly last year. As well as SFB, PIE, and seasonal MYR, which just ended last week. They tried FLL for two seasons, but didn't bring it back last winter.
 
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LotsaRunway
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:13 pm

airbazar wrote:
iyerhari wrote:
Question is did MHT even try for G4? If MHT mgmt. feels that they can depend on spillover service from BOS, it is going to challenging in the current times when there are other airports in the region who are vying for new service. I agree with you - not a good news for MHT.


According to someone on a different thread, F9 says MHT is too expensive.
If that's true that's really bad.

I couldn't find the reference, but if they do consider the MHT fees, then it tells me MHT incentives (if any) weren't enough. Can't get much cheaper than PSM though. No substantial airport passenger services and bargain seeker clientele. G4 counts on ancillary fees and services for flight profits. F9 is going to have to walk in and match while trying to profit and I don't think F9 has the vacation packages that G4 has to cover expenses.
 
lat41
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:26 pm

tomaheath wrote:
Rainy days make the mind wonder sometimes. With AA seeming to be the only airline right now somewhat interested in Manchester would a flight to PHX or DFW work? As mentioned before it would be nice to have a Midwest flight out of the snow belt. How did Southwest do on the PHX route back when they last ran it? I’d think the Phoenix would be a decent connection point for along the whole west coast. Morning flight out of Manchester should get you there around noon then leave Phoenix in the afternoon get to Manchester in the evening. AA runs bothe LAX and DFW from BDL I feel I’m not being completely crazy thinking/wishing this.

The DFW may be entirely logical and might come at some point now that Spirit has left the BOS-DFW route. In the past year a combination of B6, AA and NK had driven the business and leisure fares into the cellar to DFW and yield along with it, not to mention WN trying to grab some business with DAL. AA was in no position to branch out to other stations like MHT which even with the usual up-charge for the convenience, it might still not be a money maker.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:51 pm

With Frontier at just 2x / week

Yeah i just hope that bookings are good, and they add more. They must be testing the market. Still should be good to lower prices to Orlando for all carriers
 
airbazar
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:33 pm

Fex180 wrote:
In 2018 Frontier has expanded to PWM, BTV, and PSM. Southwest and Jetblue need to stop ignoring their secondary New England markets or they might find themselves fighting for leftovers.

In what way is Jetblue ignoring secondary New England markets?
They fly from PVD, BDL, ORH, PWM, BTV, MVY, and ACK. I guess MHT and BGR are missing but I think it's a little over reaction to say they are ignoring secondary New England markets.
WN is "ignoring it" by sticking to its business model which is to fly to markets that can support multiple daily frequencies rather than just 2 flights per week.

LotsaRunway wrote:
I couldn't find the reference, but if they do consider the MHT fees, then it tells me MHT incentives (if any) weren't enough. Can't get much cheaper than PSM though. No substantial airport passenger services and bargain seeker clientele. G4 counts on ancillary fees and services for flight profits. F9 is going to have to walk in and match while trying to profit and I don't think F9 has the vacation packages that G4 has to cover expenses.

I'm not sure it is a bargain seeker clientele. The NH seacoast area and the Rt.95 corridor is a very wealthy region. And Disney World is not exactly a cheap place to visit. I think the biggest factor for their success will how much they can convince folks from this area to fly from PSM instead of BOS given that F9 is a relatively unknown airline in the area. Since I live in this area I'm looking forward to seeing what kind of advertisement they will be doing here.
 
Fex180
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:41 pm

airbazar wrote:
Fex180 wrote:
In 2018 Frontier has expanded to PWM, BTV, and PSM. Southwest and Jetblue need to stop ignoring their secondary New England markets or they might find themselves fighting for leftovers.

In what way is Jetblue ignoring secondary New England markets?
They fly from PVD, BDL, ORH, PWM, BTV, MVY, and ACK. I guess MHT and BGR are missing but I think it's a little over reaction to say they are ignoring secondary New England markets.
WN is "ignoring it" by sticking to its business model which is to fly to markets that can support multiple daily frequencies rather than just 2 flights per week.



I was referring more to PWM and BTV, where B6 hasn't made any attempts at service expansion in years and where B6 pax numbers and market share have been either flat or declining.
 
cheapgreek
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:57 pm

Fex180 wrote:
airbazar wrote:
Fex180 wrote:
In 2018 Frontier has expanded to PWM, BTV, and PSM. Southwest and Jetblue need to stop ignoring their secondary New England markets or they might find themselves fighting for leftovers.

In what way is Jetblue ignoring secondary New England markets?
They fly from PVD, BDL, ORH, PWM, BTV, MVY, and ACK. I guess MHT and BGR are missing but I think it's a little over reaction to say they are ignoring secondary New England markets.
WN is "ignoring it" by sticking to its business model which is to fly to markets that can support multiple daily frequencies rather than just 2 flights per week.



I was referring more to PWM and BTV, where B6 hasn't made any attempts at service expansion in years and where B6 pax numbers and market share have been either flat or declining.


I know its a long shot but what about Jetblue adding HVN? The New Haven metro population is much larger than that of PWM,BTV,BGR and PSM. The runway would limit what type of service can be offered, but AA is starting HVN-CLT service in December. With I-95 being a parking lot at times and I-91 a pain to BDL, flights to JFK would do well and perhaps a daily flight to DCA, both with many connecting flights.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:24 pm

HVN-JFK as a flight???? That is served by COMMUTER rail AND Amtrak extremely frequent service. Just wouldn't make sense given how delay prone JFK is.

DCA would make more sense for B6 but those are valuable slots because there would be some premium O&D. If B6 does HVN look for it to be Florida. I thin kHVN has been opportunities on other carriers than B6.

If you need to connect in the NYC area the best route is Amtrak to EWR station.
 
Portlander
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:42 pm

Speaking of HVN, am a little confused with all of the issues concerning the airport's 5600 ft runway. It appears that various airlines have passed on starting service to New Haven due to the runway limitations. Am aware of the political battle during the past decade with the town of East Haven being against a runway extension. I'm flying in and out of John Wayne airport in a few months on a 757 and 737 series and it's runway is only 100 ft longer with aggressive take off procedures required due to terrain.

Both airports are at or near the same elevation which is around 60 ft, but New Haven would seem to have cooler ambient temperatures than Orange County. As cheapgreek mentioned, the greater New Haven/Bridgeport area should have the population base to fill larger planes to make it financially feasible. So what am I missing, why can't HVN accommodate larger aircraft (even if it's CRJ 900's) with it's current set up?
Last edited by Portlander on Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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LotsaRunway
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:47 pm

airbazar wrote:
LotsaRunway wrote:
I couldn't find the reference, but if they do consider the MHT fees, then it tells me MHT incentives (if any) weren't enough. Can't get much cheaper than PSM though. No substantial airport passenger services and bargain seeker clientele. G4 counts on ancillary fees and services for flight profits. F9 is going to have to walk in and match while trying to profit and I don't think F9 has the vacation packages that G4 has to cover expenses.

I'm not sure it is a bargain seeker clientele. The NH seacoast area and the Rt.95 corridor is a very wealthy region. And Disney World is not exactly a cheap place to visit. I think the biggest factor for their success will how much they can convince folks from this area to fly from PSM instead of BOS given that F9 is a relatively unknown airline in the area. Since I live in this area I'm looking forward to seeing what kind of advertisement they will be doing here.

That's not what I'm saying. The seacoast is actually quite a wealthy area, but PSM has not developed the terminal or airline services that business people prefer. That means PSM, as of now, and has been for years, is a ULCC vacationer airport. I'm not dissing the people that live in the area or the airlines that serve PSM, but there is nothing full service about PSM. Personally, I'm only going to bypass the larger airports and fly G4 or F9 at PSM if I'm going to save a whole lot and I can be flexible if something goes wrong with a less than daily schedule. And yes, Disney isn't cheap, but beyond that I don't know what your point is. Are you suggesting that if someone is going someplace expensive then the airlines that carry them are not catering to bargain hunters? ULCCs are best at carrying bargain hunters on vacation or when it's on the budget conscious traveler's dollar.
 
Fex180
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:32 pm

In regards to PSM, a frontier rep said outright that the goal of PSM is to capture northern MA, all of NH, and southern ME. So there is some overlap with PWM's catchment area. They clearly don't see too much of a conflict.
from a seacoast online article :

..."We are in Portland, Maine, but we also found that here in New Hampshire you’re getting Southern Maine, you’re of course getting New Hampshire, but you’re also getting northern Massachusetts,” Evans said.

Flying out of Portsmouth gives people the ability to avoid the hassle of flying out of larger airports like Logan Airport in Boston, he said. “It’s so easy to come in and out of (Portsmouth), especially with low fares,” Evans said. “With an airport like this it’s a match made in heaven.”

full article : http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/2018 ... from-pease
 
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:33 am

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
HVN-JFK as a flight???? That is served by COMMUTER rail AND Amtrak extremely frequent service. Just wouldn't make sense given how delay prone JFK is.

DCA would make more sense for B6 but those are valuable slots because there would be some premium O&D. If B6 does HVN look for it to be Florida. I thin kHVN has been opportunities on other carriers than B6.

If you need to connect in the NYC area the best route is Amtrak to EWR station.


Have you ever tried to go from New Haven to JFK? At best, driving is the best option, but one fraught with bumper to bumper traffic, accident delays, etc. I-95 takes more delays than does JFK. Taking the train involves going to New York by Amtrak, taking a subways to Queens and then taking a bus to the airport, hardly a seamless trip with luggage and family in tow. Being so close to JFK would not involve weight restricted flights as the flights to PHL seem to have very few weight restricted flights. Jet blue has a large hub at JFK with many N/S flights to Florida which would attract many passengers.
 
cheapgreek
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:55 am

Portlander wrote:
Speaking of HVN, am a little confused with all of the issues concerning the airport's 5600 ft runway. It appears that various airlines have passed on starting service to New Haven due to the runway limitations. Am aware of the political battle during the past decade with the town of East Haven being against a runway extension. I'm flying in and out of John Wayne airport in a few months on a 757 and 737 series and it's runway is only 100 ft longer with aggressive take off procedures required due to terrain.

Both airports are at or near the same elevation which is around 60 ft, but New Haven would seem to have cooler ambient temperatures than Orange County. As cheapgreek mentioned, the greater New Haven/Bridgeport area should have the population base to fill larger planes to make it financially feasible. So what am I missing, why can't HVN accommodate larger aircraft (even if it's CRJ 900's) with it's current set up?


HVN has 5600 feet in one direction for landing, but 5250 feet in the other direction. Also HVN has obstructions at the north end on runway 2-20. While progress has been made over the last few years such as adding 1000 foot turf overruns at both ends, many trees cut and utility poles re-positioned, there still remains a tree to the north that the owner refuses the airports effort to have it cut down and the state will not lift a finger to aid the airport in its quest to clear obstructions from the flight paths. In the past 727's. 737's, DC-9's 757's have operated from HVN, but with weight restrictions that made flights unprofitable. UA operated 737's to ORD for almost 5 years but could not sustain the loses associated with leaving passengers behind. The federal appeal court case is coming up and with a win, the southern overrun will be have 1000 feet paved and the northern overrun paved 400 to 500 feet, finally removing the last impediment to increased service. On airnav.com, SNA shows no obstructions while HVN shows them at both ends of the runway. SNA has steep departures due to the surrounding homes, not obstructions. Look at HVN's slope angles as compared to SNA's, much cleaner approaches at SNA. Also SNA does not have to deal with prevailing headwinds on most of its flights as being a west coast airport, east coast airports have headwinds to deal with due to the prevailing winds going from west to east
 
Portlander
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:28 am

Sounds like potential good news for New Haven's future and thanks for the explanation on the current runway situation. So with the possible 1000 foot extension on the southern end, does that mean there will be no more safety overruns as a trade off? Am looking forward to the appeal courts decision and hope it works out for HVN. Sadly it only takes a few naysayers to halt positive progress for the greater number!
 
B595
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:58 am

I wish Frontier well with their BTV service.

One of the local Burlington news outlets states that Florida. "..is the top destination for Vermont air travelers." This surprises me a little - I would have expected New York to be the top air market. But if Florida really is the top, then I wonder why the airport hasn't been able to sustain Florida nonstops in the past. Was it market fragmentation, with JetBlue, United, and American already offering lots of decent one-stop connection options? Was it poor flight timing?
 
cheapgreek
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:41 am

Portlander wrote:
Sounds like potential good news for New Haven's future and thanks for the explanation on the current runway situation. So with the possible 1000 foot extension on the southern end, does that mean there will be no more safety overruns as a trade off? Am looking forward to the appeal courts decision and hope it works out for HVN. Sadly it only takes a few naysayers to halt positive progress for the greater number!


The overruns will remain as such only they will be paved and marked accordingly. The southern 1000 foot paved overrun while not available for landings, the paved overrun will enable departing aircraft to have an extra 1000 feet of takeoff distance thereby clearing obstructions to the north and avoid weight restrictions. Years back NW twice proposed service to DTW, first with a DC-9 and later with a CRJ-200. Both aircraft would take at times a considerable weight restriction and that's as far as it went. AA is doing very well with the PHL flights and I suspect the CLT flights will go from a CRJ-200 to a CRJ-700 to better handle HVN's runway.
 
uconn99
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:26 am

cheapgreek wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
HVN-JFK as a flight???? That is served by COMMUTER rail AND Amtrak extremely frequent service. Just wouldn't make sense given how delay prone JFK is.

DCA would make more sense for B6 but those are valuable slots because there would be some premium O&D. If B6 does HVN look for it to be Florida. I thin kHVN has been opportunities on other carriers than B6.

If you need to connect in the NYC area the best route is Amtrak to EWR station.


Have you ever tried to go from New Haven to JFK? At best, driving is the best option, but one fraught with bumper to bumper traffic, accident delays, etc. I-95 takes more delays than does JFK. Taking the train involves going to New York by Amtrak, taking a subways to Queens and then taking a bus to the airport, hardly a seamless trip with luggage and family in tow. Being so close to JFK would not involve weight restricted flights as the flights to PHL seem to have very few weight restricted flights. Jet blue has a large hub at JFK with many N/S flights to Florida which would attract many passengers.


New Haven to JFK by train is not as difficult as you make it seem. You can take Amtrak into Penn Station and connect to Long Island Railroad to Jamaica station and connect to the JFK airtrain. I have done it a handful of times and it really isn't that bad.

With that being said, the poster was referring to flights out of Newark. From New Haven, you can take Amtrak to EWR train station in just over 2 hours.
 
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chrisnh
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:16 am

The comment about MHT ‘fees being high’ was never mentioned as an impediment by the previous regime running the place. Obviously they didn’t want any fingers pointed at THEM for the decade+ falloff in traffic (which is guaranteed to include 2019). MHT spent a lot of money on infrastructure built for way more traffic, and now they’re on the hook for paying those bonds back on smaller revenues. Frankly I’m shocked their bond rating hasn’t collapsed.
 
cheapgreek
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:13 pm

uconn99 wrote:
cheapgreek wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
HVN-JFK as a flight???? That is served by COMMUTER rail AND Amtrak extremely frequent service. Just wouldn't make sense given how delay prone JFK is.

DCA would make more sense for B6 but those are valuable slots because there would be some premium O&D. If B6 does HVN look for it to be Florida. I thin kHVN has been opportunities on other carriers than B6.

If you need to connect in the NYC area the best route is Amtrak to EWR station.


Have you ever tried to go from New Haven to JFK? At best, driving is the best option, but one fraught with bumper to bumper traffic, accident delays, etc. I-95 takes more delays than does JFK. Taking the train involves going to New York by Amtrak, taking a subways to Queens and then taking a bus to the airport, hardly a seamless trip with luggage and family in tow. Being so close to JFK would not involve weight restricted flights as the flights to PHL seem to have very few weight restricted flights. Jet blue has a large hub at JFK with many N/S flights to Florida which would attract many passengers.


New Haven to JFK by train is not as difficult as you make it seem. You can take Amtrak into Penn Station and connect to Long Island Railroad to Jamaica station and connect to the JFK airtrain. I have done it a handful of times and it really isn't that bad.

With that being said, the poster was referring to flights out of Newark. From New Haven, you can take Amtrak to EWR train station in just over 2 hours.


Taking three trains is not what I consider an easy trip to JFK. There is enough of a market to support several daily flights to JFK and as far as EWR, I encountered traffic jams on I-95 and switched to the Merritt parkway only to find the same problem and arriving about 2 hours late. Hopefully HVN will win the court case and area travelers will have a nearby airport and that will make travel less stressful. I use HVN whenever I can and its a breeze to depart from or arrive at and getting dropped off or picked up does not work a hardship on friends and family.
 
uconn99
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:38 pm

Who talked about driving to EWR? From New Haven, Amtrak takes around 2.5 hours to EWR station for around $30 with advance purchase, that sure is a lot easier than driving to EWR.

As for JFK, you take Amtrak to Penn Station, connect to hourly service (may even be evry 20-30 minutes) to Jamaica station and take a 5 minute train ride to the terminal. How is that not easy?

Bottom line, with NYC and BDL close by, HVN will never see the service you are hoping for and I-91 to BDL is not a bad drive and can be done in under 1 hour. Don't tell me I-91 has bad traffic, I live in D.C. and know what bad traffic is.

Edit: Amtrak from New Haven to Penn Station takes an hour and 40 minutes. Long Island Railroad has trains every 15-20 minutes leaving to Jamaica station, that trip takes 21 minutes. Total trip time to JFK from New Haven through Penn Station would take around 2 1/4 to 2.5 hours and cost around $55 each way, completely reasonable.
Last edited by uconn99 on Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:48 pm, edited 4 times in total.
 
uconn99
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:43 pm

Aer Lingus commits another 4 years to BDL:

http://www.hartfordbusiness.com/article ... /180919954
 
cheapgreek
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:25 pm

uconn99 wrote:
Who talked about driving to EWR? From New Haven, Amtrak takes around 2.5 hours to EWR station for around $30 with advance purchase, that sure is a lot easier than driving to EWR.

As for JFK, you take Amtrak to Penn Station, connect to hourly service (may even be evry 20-30 minutes) to Jamaica station and take a 5 minute train ride to the terminal. How is that not easy?

Bottom line, with NYC and BDL close by, HVN will never see the service you are hoping for and I-91 to BDL is not a bad drive and can be done in under 1 hour. Don't tell me I-91 has bad traffic, I live in D.C. and know what bad traffic is.

Edit: Amtrak from New Haven to Penn Station takes an hour and 40 minutes. Long Island Railroad has trains every 15-20 minutes leaving to Jamaica station, that trip takes 21 minutes. Total trip time to JFK from New Haven through Penn Station would take around 2 1/4 to 2.5 hours and cost around $55 each way, completely reasonable.


For years its been the marginal runway at HVN that has made more flights by more airlines not possible. The metro area is large enough to support more flights than is offered today. Hopefully the appeal court will right the wrong committed in the first trial. Why should travelers travel 50 or more miles when there is a local airport that with an upgraded runway can offer more flights and make travel less stressful? I have used JFK many times and I always breathed a sigh of relief when pulling into the long term parking lot. Back then we traveled heavy with 4 to 6 people and dragging bags from train to train can be a hassle. All I am trying to say that with the runway overruns paved, HVN can become the go to airport for area residents for most flights. I agree JFK cannot be beat for international flights, more airlines, more non-stop flights to more cities but HVN could be a good nearby domestic airport serving the shoreline area with DL flights to DTW and ATL, UA with flights to ORH and IAD and Allegiant has already said they would offer flights to Florida when the runway is upgraded.
 
mjgbtv
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:32 am

B595 wrote:
I wish Frontier well with their BTV service.

One of the local Burlington news outlets states that Florida. "..is the top destination for Vermont air travelers." This surprises me a little - I would have expected New York to be the top air market. But if Florida really is the top, then I wonder why the airport hasn't been able to sustain Florida nonstops in the past. Was it market fragmentation, with JetBlue, United, and American already offering lots of decent one-stop connection options? Was it poor flight timing?


I suspect most of the traffic to New York is connecting. I can believe that Florida is the top destination.

I believe that JetBlue and Allegiant have been the only two to try nonstop to Florida, at least in recent years. It doesn't seem like there was ever a clear explanation for JetBlue giving up. I know it was discussed here and I think the consensus was that while the route did okay JetBlue wanted to exploit other opportunities and needed the aircraft. As you say there are plenty of decent one-stop routes.

I'm not sure about Allegiant but it probably made more sense for them to concentrate on PBG, especially if they found that a high percentage of the travelers were from Canada.
 
B595
Posts: 199
Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:52 am

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:25 am

mjgbtv wrote:

It may also be that MCO is just not the best Florida gateway for BTV travelers. I've heard it said here that the Quebecois favor the FLL area (hence the daily Air Canada Rouge 767 widebodies on YUL-FLL). Also, if one's destination is not the MCO local area then the cost of the BTV-MCO flight + the cost of renting a car to get your final destination (FLL//TPA/etc) might be on par with just flying directly to the destination from YUL and skipping the rental car. But the airlines probably are sharing info with the car rental companies and hotels and should know where the passengers are ultimately going in Florida, so maybe most of the passengers really are going to MCO/Disney World.
 
maximairways
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:45 pm

uconn99 wrote:
Aer Lingus commits another 4 years to BDL:

http://www.hartfordbusiness.com/article ... /180919954


The governor's release also confirms they will move to an A321neoLR eventually.


https://portal.ct.gov/Office-of-the-Gov ... More-Years
 
Fex180
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:42 pm

Noticed that AA has gone year round with mainline PWM-PHL. looks like most days through March have an E-190 on early morning and evening PWM departures. Curious what they will use on that route when the 190s are sold off starting next year. Maybe we'll be seeing more A319s into PWM.
 
Portlander
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:57 pm

^ Great news. Did not know that AA counted the E-190 as mainline seeing that it only has 99 seats and I was under the impression the A319 was their smallest mainline aircraft.
 
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spinkid
Posts: 1866
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:25 pm

uconn99 wrote:
Who talked about driving to EWR? From New Haven, Amtrak takes around 2.5 hours to EWR station for around $30 with advance purchase, that sure is a lot easier than driving to EWR.

As for JFK, you take Amtrak to Penn Station, connect to hourly service (may even be evry 20-30 minutes) to Jamaica station and take a 5 minute train ride to the terminal. How is that not easy?

Bottom line, with NYC and BDL close by, HVN will never see the service you are hoping for and I-91 to BDL is not a bad drive and can be done in under 1 hour. Don't tell me I-91 has bad traffic, I live in D.C. and know what bad traffic is.

Edit: Amtrak from New Haven to Penn Station takes an hour and 40 minutes. Long Island Railroad has trains every 15-20 minutes leaving to Jamaica station, that trip takes 21 minutes. Total trip time to JFK from New Haven through Penn Station would take around 2 1/4 to 2.5 hours and cost around $55 each way, completely reasonable.


of course DC traffic is bad, but You can't make HVN to BDL in under an hour unless its between 8pm and 6am. HVN to JFK is easily 2 hours. Anyone west of New Haven will certainly look at HPN as well. When Air Tran was there you could get great fares that were often matched. I would love B6 to offer Washington service with connections.

If and when HVN does get additional service it has a somewhat limited catchment area. Anywhere East of HVN. West of HVN all the way to Bridgeport up the route 8 corridor to Waterbury. The farther west you go from there the more traffic you find on 95 (Norwalk and Stamford) and only back roads to connect with Danbury and Northern Fairfield. Those areas will continue to look at HPN and SWF as their alternatives to LGA, JFK and BDL.
 
mjgbtv
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:42 pm

Fex180 wrote:
Noticed that AA has gone year round with mainline PWM-PHL. looks like most days through March have an E-190 on early morning and evening PWM departures. Curious what they will use on that route when the 190s are sold off starting next year. Maybe we'll be seeing more A319s into PWM.


Looks like that's the same for BTV. - I checked a couple of months and 3 out of 5 daily flights are E190s.

Maybe they'll just bring in more CRJs when the E190s leave. More than anyone else AA seems to be all-in for frequency.
 
cheapgreek
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:43 pm

spinkid wrote:
uconn99 wrote:
Who talked about driving to EWR? From New Haven, Amtrak takes around 2.5 hours to EWR station for around $30 with advance purchase, that sure is a lot easier than driving to EWR.

As for JFK, you take Amtrak to Penn Station, connect to hourly service (may even be evry 20-30 minutes) to Jamaica station and take a 5 minute train ride to the terminal. How is that not easy?

Bottom line, with NYC and BDL close by, HVN will never see the service you are hoping for and I-91 to BDL is not a bad drive and can be done in under 1 hour. Don't tell me I-91 has bad traffic, I live in D.C. and know what bad traffic is.

Edit: Amtrak from New Haven to Penn Station takes an hour and 40 minutes. Long Island Railroad has trains every 15-20 minutes leaving to Jamaica station, that trip takes 21 minutes. Total trip time to JFK from New Haven through Penn Station would take around 2 1/4 to 2.5 hours and cost around $55 each way, completely reasonable.


of course DC traffic is bad, but You can't make HVN to BDL in under an hour unless its between 8pm and 6am. HVN to JFK is easily 2 hours. Anyone west of New Haven will certainly look at HPN as well. When Air Tran was there you could get great fares that were often matched. I would love B6 to offer Washington service with connections.

If and when HVN does get additional service it has a somewhat limited catchment area. Anywhere East of HVN. West of HVN all the way to Bridgeport up the route 8 corridor to Waterbury. The farther west you go from there the more traffic you find on 95 (Norwalk and Stamford) and only back roads to connect with Danbury and Northern Fairfield. Those areas will continue to look at HPN and SWF as their alternatives to LGA, JFK and BDL.


HVN's catchment area can surely support more than 3 flights to PHL. From Old Saybrook to Wallingford to Milford and inland a bit to the valley area, Derby, Ansonia, etc can support flights to DTW, ATL, ORD, IAD and a ULCC airline with weekly flights to Florida. All this can happen if the runway issue is settled in HVN's favor. Its sad that area travelers have an airport right nearby minutes from I-95 and I-91 but many are stuck going to BDL or New York airports. The court case I thought was to be held this month, still no definite word on the date.
 
uconn99
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:42 pm

BDL rebounded in July with 6.5% growth over last year after May (+0.8%) and June (+0.7%) had near flat growth. For the year BDL is up 3.5% over 2017 YTD with 3,837,766 passengers. BDL also went over 600,000 passengers in a month for the first time in 10+ years I believe.

American continues to lead the way over Southwest as the largest carrier at BDL.

July 2018 Bradley International Airport Passengers-

Total Passengers-

July 2018 - 629,552 +6.5%
July 2017 - 591,015

Domestic by Airline July 2018-

American- 152,588
Southwest- 140,711
Delta- 117,577
United- 80,961
jetBlue- 73,331
Spirit- 44,278
Onejet- 1,362

International by Airline July 2018-

Aer Lingus- 9,947
Air Canada- 7,122
Delta (CUN flight)- 1,875

July 2018 total International Passengers- 18,944
 
uconn99
Posts: 359
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:46 pm

Assuming Aer Lingus had no flight cancellations, May through July numbers below:

May- 8,632 passengers, 79% load factor
June- 10,080 passengers, 95% load factor
July- 9,947 passengers, 91% load factor
 
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VS4ever
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:41 pm

http://www.providencejournal.com/news/2 ... ew-airline

Let the speculation commence. Sadly the post is super vague, so tough to figure out who it might be, interested to hear thoughts
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
MO11
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:05 pm

VS4ever wrote:
http://www.providencejournal.com/news/20180928/tf-green-airport-to-welcome-new-airline

Let the speculation commence. Sadly the post is super vague, so tough to figure out who it might be, interested to hear thoughts


Sun Country, PVD-MSN
 
RL757PVD
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:47 pm

My guess is this is something small unless it’s SY. There’s still a lot of new seats that need to be absorbed after growing 20% in a single year.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
MO11
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:21 am

RL757PVD wrote:
My guess is this is something small....


Well, it looks like you're right. Regional Sky has filed docs to operate public charters between PVD and Ste. Hubert beginning October 22. It shows 258 flights over the year, so is that 1 roundtrip Mo-Fr? Airplane will be a Beech 1900C operated by Aviation Starlink (C-GWWY).
 
Portlander
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:57 pm

Any progress with PVD's potential name change? Heard that Rhode Island International is at the top of the list with "Providence" somewhere in the name as another viable option. Not sure if it's physical location in Warwick would make it a tougher sell? I kind of like Greater Providence International.
 
PVD757
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:23 pm

The name is not changing. TF Green it is.
 
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LotsaRunway
Posts: 289
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:47 pm

Portlander wrote:
Any progress with PVD's potential name change? Heard that Rhode Island International is at the top of the list with "Providence" somewhere in the name as another viable option. Not sure if it's physical location in Warwick would make it a tougher sell? I kind of like Greater Providence International.

I heard that they want to clone Manchester’s success and adopt:
“Providence-Boston Regional Airport”
:duck:
 
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spinkid
Posts: 1866
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:26 pm

MO11 wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:
My guess is this is something small....


Well, it looks like you're right. Regional Sky has filed docs to operate public charters between PVD and Ste. Hubert beginning October 22. It shows 258 flights over the year, so is that 1 roundtrip Mo-Fr? Airplane will be a Beech 1900C operated by Aviation Starlink (C-GWWY).



Indeed. It is posted on their web site

http://regionalsky.com/

Interesting. I've never heard of them before. Apparently they operate as a few different airlines including Texas Sky and North Country.
 
MO11
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:14 am

Texas Sky ends at the end of the month. Regional Sky was operating Wilkes Barre-Pittsburgh (as scheduled service as opposed to public charters), but that was unpopular and ended after Labor Day.
 
paysonmt77
Posts: 57
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:17 pm

Has anyone been following the forum on JetBlue where there is rumblings about JetBlue's plan to reconfigure several stations including BTV and PWM late in 2019? Some are talking about closing stations, others are mentioning taking flights from JFK and direct them to FLL and MCO. All comes from delays and too much traffic at JFK. Thoughts? I would like to know if the majority are flying to these locations? How many are just going to NYC?. Interesting that Worcester was not on the list, due to being in bed with Massport and JetBlue....If JetBlue is considering these options, MHT will be highly unlikely a station?
 
B752OS
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:25 pm

PWM is moving to summer only service. B6 is adding PVD-PBI.
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 4367
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:29 pm

B6 delays at JFK and BOS are a problem. The network does need some adjustments. They need to space more time between turnarounds.

Doubt BTV is at risk of losing JFK maybe less frequency. BTV was a very early if not original B6 market. They have done really well there. JFK offers options to all Florida cities in one-stop. Alot of the year they are 4x daily, lowest is 3x daily. Maybe 2x to JFK and 1x to MCO and FLL would be a similar option etc. Would help reduce JFK congestion a little.

I think the vast vast majority of B6 BTV customers are connecting in JFK and the vast majority are headed to Florida/The Caribbean. They carry a small % O&D majority is connecting. Delta offers flights to LGA which seem to attract the day business people and have a higher O&D rate I bet.
 
Fex180
Posts: 221
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:47 pm

As mentioned in the JetBlue network thread, B6 is adding PVD / BDL - PBI and reducing PWM to a summer-only destination.

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