tomaheath
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:02 am

VS4ever wrote:
Ok, so as promised, I figured out how to do the OTP for BDL, file is linked below, data thru September 18

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nkYoU ... EUSQXpZPR5

Caveats

Like any tables from the DOT they have their limits, here's this tables:

1. Data only from Jan 2018, no previous comparatives at the regional carrier level available, although total carrier level is available for prior years i have ignored this for the purposes of the exercise.
2. Domestic, PR and USVI only, no international data available.
3. Carriers reporting: DL, UA, AA, WN, B6, NK
4. Carriers reporting regional ops, DL, UA, AA
5. Main Data is BDL, however I know a user of this thread is a big HVN fan, so somewhere buried in the data maybe an easter egg for that person...
7. For this version, i have done a Month (Sep) , QTD (Q3), YTD (Jan to Sep).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How the report works:

New Information
This month, I have figured out how to pull which Tail for each airline has passed through BOS the most, it does not give me actual model data, but for future months i may look that up if I can. I have added the Tail number and the number of times it passed through. For a couple of airlines, the data is not 100% complete, so the largest number is a "blank", so I have gone with the next largest number to have a reference.


Section 1 -
a) Bidirectional data of number of flights, cancellations and diverts, showing a net completion # and % along with a rough average stage length, grand totals attempt to be weighted average, still working through that.
b) Average Elapsed Time is total flight time including air and ground, separated by air and ground underneath. Ground time is effectively a combination of Taxi Time out (departure) and Taxi Time in (arrival) at the relevant airports.
c) # of aircraft used: this is quite awesome information, although i wish it was just a little more detailed, basically this table has "tail reg" information, so i can actually count how many aircraft are used by each carrier. I can actually dive into how many on a particular route if needed, but i do not have aircraft types or load factors in these tables, so please do not ask if i do!. However what I DO have is which aircraft are used on which route on a given day and by flight number, and times if you are interested, please ask. I also have the detailed tables for each airline, but be warned they are big, so it's unlikely i can send them directly to you.

Section 2 -
IMPORTANT NOTE: This is OUTBOUND from BOS only information, so it's not the same as section 1.
# of flights, cancellations and diversions for a % completion factor, # of departures per day is based on the the gross number not the net and remember does NOT include international, so complaining that DL are at 115 for example and the data is wrong, is incorrect, because as noted, it's domestic only.. sorry.

Section 3
Also OUTBOUND only
This is On Time Performance, so net of cancellations, how many were delayed out of BOS, On-time as defined by DOT is leaving less than 15 minutes late, % OTP to see who is doing better than others. The departures per day shows how many flights are getting off the ground as opposed to section 2, which is how many are supposed to each day.

Section 4
I'm still getting to grips with this section, however basically a breakout of the key delay factors reported by this table i am working with. Carrier Delay is delays caused by non-aircraft carrier activities, Weather and ATC are obvious, then there is Inbound aircraft delay as well. ALSO OUTBOUND from BOS info.

Section 5
Breakdown of why flights are cancelled by category, whether by the carrier, Weather or ATC

Section 6
Breakdown of how long flights were delayed for and how many
-2 to 0 - on time
12 = 180+, no limit, others are blocked by 15 minute intervals.

Other Info
Highest and Lowest in each section, for those with multi-carriers, i have split those out on separate tabs for viewing along with ORH information for B6.


Commentary

Month - September[/u]
DL takes the flights completed award with a perfect 100%, all 453 completed, runner up was WN that got so close, but had 1 diverted, bringing up the rear was AA with 20 cancellations and 2 diverts for 96.96%. Piedmont and Trans States were the killers for AA, sadly.

DL also led the On-time departure list with a 93.6% rating a full 2.5% ahead of WN and nearly 9% better than also ran AA and 5% better than the overall average.

Overall 73% of flights departed early, Winner in this category was NK with 81.7% followed by UA with 80.7% However once you get past that, everything flips with the on-time 0-15 minutes late category going to WN with 23.5% and DL with 16,6%, UA drops to 6.7% and NK 8.4%

In terms of reasons why flights were late, AA got hit with 34 minute ATC delays, NK close behind with 32. , B6 suffered from inbound aircraft being 29 minutes late (UA was second with 27) and B6 drove the most carrier delays at an average of 16 minutes.
One interesting stat is that clearly AA was taxiing their planes to Hartford and back, as they took 15 minutes compared to DL's 5.. either that or the ATC guy is a relation of one of the big DL Fan Boys on this site.

23 flights out of 2,401 recorded (domestic-outbound only) were delayed more than 3 hours. More surprisingly, 32 flights departed more than 15 minutes Early with B6 managing 13 of those.



[u]YTD - September


DL had the best completed record YTD with 98.84% making it out of 4,303 outbound flights with 44 cancelled and 8 diverts, runner up was NK with 97.59%, 30 cancelled and 2 diverts, last place went to AA with 95.88%, 330 cancelled and 13 diverted on 6,774 flights logged.

For On time performance . DL wins hands down with 88.14%, a nearly 4% lead over 2nd placed WN , bringing up the rear, old favorite B6, with a 73.42% on 2,664 flights.

Overall 64% of flights departed early and UA was the leader with 74% of theirs going out in that category NK a close 2nd, WN brings up the rear with 51.9%. WN claws itself back in the ontime category with a whopping 32% of flights departing in that time frame.

The late category shows B6 having over 4.7% of their flights delayed over 2 hours. Next up was NK with 3.8%, WN did best at 1.5%

In terms of reasons why flights were late,
NK- 43 minute ATC Delays
NK - 40 minute inbound aircraft delays, WN with 39
DL - 31 minute carrier delays

299 flights delayed more than 3 hours, 203 left more than 15 minutes early

Anyway, plenty more data for you to look at in the file. Enjoy.

Depending on time, i might do one more, so you guys get to vote.. would you like to see
a) RI with PVD
b) VT with BTV
c) ME with PWM and BGR
d) NH with MHT and PSM

As always thanks for you hard work on this thread as well as the Boston one as well. As a Manchester fan I’d love to see that list but I may be the minority here.
 
Portlander
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:20 pm

PWM and BGR please.
 
RKDFlier
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:29 pm

ME: PWM and BGR
I never profesed to be perfict
 
airbazar
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:43 pm

VS4ever wrote:
airbazar wrote:
pitbosflyer wrote:
I think we may have to wait and see how WOW's business situation shakes out before anything happens. But I agree it could happen in the near future. Just might be FI instead of WW.

Personally I think FI would be better suited for the market. I suspect that this is a well balanced market with business, cargo and leisure demand.
WOW is more of a low cost people mover with a bad reputation in the business community.


1/2 kidding, 1/2 serious, but I could see a fish for lobster cargo swap happening here as a way to support. Maybe 3 weekly as a start to test the market to say 4 or 5 weekly in the summer, if marketed right, they could link this into Acadia tourism (they already have the cruise ships calling there), I would have also said a link to PEI on the ferry, but last i heard the plan is to move that to Bar Harbor anyway.

The timing of this maybe right for 19 or a 2020 start, plus with being a short route could allow decent utilization of an aircraft if they couple it with another couple of routes.

If this farm goes ahead, you can bet we'll see FI in Portland.
https://bangordailynews.com/2018/01/30/ ... -in-maine/
 
uconn99
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:06 pm

Great write up, I would like to see PVD. Can you do anything with LF and fares?
 
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VS4ever
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:18 pm

uconn99 wrote:
Great write up, I would like to see PVD. Can you do anything with LF and fares?


tphuang is the expert on that front, he's way better at that than me, but let me see what i can come up with in the meantime.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
33lspotter
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:42 am

BGR and PWM!
 
uconn99
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:31 am

VS4ever wrote:
uconn99 wrote:
Great write up, I would like to see PVD. Can you do anything with LF and fares?


tphuang is the expert on that front, he's way better at that than me, but let me see what i can come up with in the meantime.


Much appreciated!
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:57 am

Porter is leaving BTV, I know it's been posted in other forums. They say they will come back after pre clearance goes in.

Staffing problems and immigration clearance wasn't ideal . I think staffing was their biggest issues.
 
btvhopper
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:22 am

Thanks for the BDL analysis. I would love to see BTV....and maybe PWM too. It seems both of those airports have been growing a lot in the last 1-4 years at the expense of MHT (or, really just regaining market share that originated from Maine/Vermont that had previously leaked to MHT).
 
btvhopper
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:30 am

Is the Porter preclearance issue at BTV or at Billy Bishop (YTZ)? I would love to see a 2-3x weekly transatlantic flight of they can put a customs/immigration station inside the terminal.

I know it’s a pipe dream, but if they’re serious about transatlantic at PWM (as posters have recently suggested) one would presume BTV it would make a much more successful market. Many fundamentals (rather, proximity to Montreal) indicate BTV would be more successful for say a less-than-daily budget A330 transatlantic flight than PWM. The taxes/fees in canada don’t support budget airlines, while leakage to BOS is much less of an issue.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:33 am

btvhopper wrote:
Thanks for the BDL analysis. I would love to see BTV....and maybe PWM too. It seems both of those airports have been growing a lot in the last 1-4 years at the expense of MHT (or, really just regaining market share that originated from Maine/Vermont that had previously leaked to MHT).

I wish I could do one for those, but data for them is very thin on the ground outside of the T-100’s
I am working on PWM for the OTP stuff, but an analysis like I’ve done for BDL and PVD is tough for the markets shares and the like, but if I could get the info in some decent format from them regularly, I would love to do them
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
B595
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:43 am

btvhopper wrote:
I would love to see a 2-3x weekly transatlantic flight of they can put a customs/immigration station inside the terminal.

Same here - I've been quietly hoping that BTV would move forward with an in-terminal customs facility, to beat PBG to the punch with Montreal-oriented transatlantic service. Customs/immigration aside, though, PBG seems better positioned to fill the role of a Montreal transatlantic reliever. Much longer runway, bigger border crossing on I-87, shorter drive time to Montreal. And according to a story in the local Plattsburgh news the airport is already actively seeking a Paris service (I don't know how they'd handle the customs processing, but that was the story).
 
mjgbtv
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:01 pm

B595 wrote:
btvhopper wrote:
I would love to see a 2-3x weekly transatlantic flight of they can put a customs/immigration station inside the terminal.

Same here - I've been quietly hoping that BTV would move forward with an in-terminal customs facility, to beat PBG to the punch with Montreal-oriented transatlantic service. Customs/immigration aside, though, PBG seems better positioned to fill the role of a Montreal transatlantic reliever. Much longer runway, bigger border crossing on I-87, shorter drive time to Montreal. And according to a story in the local Plattsburgh news the airport is already actively seeking a Paris service (I don't know how they'd handle the customs processing, but that was the story).


The runway, at least, shouldn't really be an issue. I have seen plenty of military charters to Europe, and I doubt they travel light! And while PBG is arguably more attractive to Canadians BTV is clearly not unattractive. All that said, though, I seem to recall BTV management being quoted somewhere as saying international service was not a high priority. Of course, now that they got Frontier I guess they need to work on the next thing...
 
btvhopper
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:32 pm

BTV doesn't have a shorter runway like PWM. Full-sized runway should be no problem for an A330 or 787.

Obviously PBG could has a much, much longer runway that they don't use currently. But does that matter or help? These aren't space shuttles. 8,000-9,000 feet should suffice. I don't think Montreal families are going to say "We'd go to BTV but Plattsburgh is 12 minutes closer." It's an 1:30 drive vs 1:45 drive; not a game changer either way. Free parking might be a draw though.
 
B595
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:59 am

mjgbtv wrote:
The runway, at least, shouldn't really be an issue. I have seen plenty of military charters to Europe, and I doubt they travel light!

btvhopper wrote:
BTV doesn't have a shorter runway like PWM. Full-sized runway should be no problem for an A330 or 787. Obviously PBG has a much, much longer runway that they don't use currently. But does that matter or help?

Well, I agree that BTV's 8320ft of runway should be "sufficient". I've seen Europe-bound heavies depart off shorter runways like BOS runway 09 (7000ft) and SFO runway 01R (8650ft). But all else equal, longer is better. Operators these days favor derated (reduced thrust) takeoffs, to minimize engine wear-and-tear and save $$ on long-term maintenance costs. PBG and its extra +3000ft of runway may allow regular derates, while BTV may not. PBG may also allow flights to go out unrestricted even on the hottest summer days of the year, while BTV may require some restrictions (= lost revenue) those same days. And during those winter weather events with snow and slush on the runway and degraded braking action, PBG's extra +3000ft may allow a heavy to get in, while BTV may require a costly divert or cancellation. So if BTV and PBG are evenly matched in everything else, it's possible the longer PBG runway could tip things in its favor. This is probably an academic point, though, because BTV and PBG aren't likely to be evenly matched in everything else. As has been said, PBG management seems more motivated than its BTV counterparts to attract transatlantic service.

btvhopper wrote:
I don't think Montreal families are going to say "We'd go to BTV but Plattsburgh is 12 minutes closer." It's an 1:30 drive vs 1:45 drive; not a game changer either way.

I think this is low-balling the time difference. Google indicates a 30- to 40-minute difference, depending on time of day. During rush hour: 1h 23m Montreal-Plattsburgh versus 2:03m Montreal-Burlington; During off-peak: 1h 12m Montreal-Plattsburgh versus 1h 45m Montreal-Burlington.
 
btvhopper
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:58 pm

It's worth noting that Deputy Aviation Director Nic Lungo mentioned re-paving of the concrete around the terminal will allow the accommodation of "Larger planes." Also, this is an airport management that likes to be tight-lipped about expansion plans; so just because they're not public about anything doesn't mean its not in the scope.

https://www.wcax.com/content/news/Burli ... 08702.html

UA already occasionally substitutes A321's for the regular A320s on the ORD routes while they fly 737-900's to EWR, so one can only presume that "larger planes" refers to wide-body, 300-seat aircrafts capable of transatlantic service.

I'm not at all expecting transatlantic service. But I just think such service would be much more realistic at BTV rather than PWM or PBG.
 
33lspotter
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:10 pm

btvhopper wrote:
I'm not at all expecting transatlantic service. But I just think such service would be much more realistic at BTV rather than PWM or PBG.


While I agree that TATL service at BTV (one of my favorite New England airports) is unlikely, I’m not sure that 1,000 feet of runway makes it that “much more realistic” than PWM. Admittedly I am a PWM booster but as a previous poster noted, TATL aircraft (including such guests as the BA 747 and AF 777) at BOS use 9/27 which is 7,000 feet — almost 200 feet shorter than PWM’s 11/29. Now, all things (e.g. passenger counts) equal, obviously smaller aircraft aren’t better in terms of takeoff performance than larger counterparts, but it is telling that airport management apparently thinks that the current runway length is sufficient for newer TATL aircraft like the 737 MAX. The main issue at PWM is ramp space — that’s why the AF1 747s usually go to BGR instead of PWM, and why PWM usually gets the 757 instead. And while I don’t see a full-fledged hop to Ireland/UK/etc. on the horizon, I think Iceland could (could not will) work.
 
Portlander
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:23 pm

The downside to BTV over PWM is population based in my opinion. You may lure larger TATL aircraft to your airport but it's imperative that you fill the seats on a regular basis. Burlington has 218,000 in it's metropolitan area compared to Portland's 532,000. I understand BTV's ability to potentially draw from the Montreal market but Portland could potentially draw from the north side of Greater Boston and all the way to Bangor if the flight options were enticing enough. Obviously PWM is also closer to Iceland than BTV which gives it another small edge. I actually think MHT is perfectly positioned for TATL service over both PWM and BTV due to it's even longer runway, solid infrastructure and being in the center of the population cluster.
 
Blueknows
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:54 pm

I think we need to look at peace airport in Portsmouth,nh. They have made great strides with landing frontier and planned terminal upgrade and expansion. It’s positined in the perfect spot to grab from MHT/PWM/BTV/BOS.

http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/2018 ... portsmouth
 
33lspotter
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:11 pm

Portlander wrote:
I actually think MHT is perfectly positioned for TATL service over both PWM and BTV due to it's even longer runway, solid infrastructure and being in the center of the population cluster.


Yes, that is true. However, they'd need to get CBP on-site first, correct?
 
Portlander
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:13 pm

Nice article and you may be correct though Frontier is now established and doing well at PWM and I don't anticipate any leakage down to Pease on the same airline. Not sure on PWM's draw from the Portsmouth area but it could have a small impact and may be a bigger issue for MHT.
 
Portlander
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:19 pm

I think PWM and BTV (seasonal set up for Porter Airlines?) have the same permanent CBP issues. Did not know that Frontier was negotiating to purchase WOW airlines which may help Portsmouth over Portland for future TATL service.
 
btvhopper
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:42 am

The reason PWM is not realistic for TATL is because MHT is so much better positioned. Bigger airport/runway, infrastructure already in place and a much more affluent, more heavily populated area. There’s not room for TATL service at both airports. Despite poor management at MHT, I still see no path of how PWM will be able attract this service. Unless the state forks over a pile of corporate welfare in some sort of revenue guarantee, which I also don’t see happening.

And the 500k metro stat thrown around for Portland is absolutely absurd. I looked it up and it includes all of Southern Maine, plus much of Central Maine. It extends as far south as Kittery, up to Lewiston-Auburn, and north to Brunswick. You can’t call all of that area the Portland area. The actual metro area of Portland should just be Cumberland County, which has a population of 281k.

BTV is a totally different market and more favorable because of the potential to draw from the 4.2m Montreal area, where TATL flights face higher Canadian fees and fuel costs. The province is very, very close to completing Autoroute 35, which will offer seemless freeway service from Montreal connecting to I-89 in Highgate. Will be a total game changer for Vermont-Quebec trade and relations once completed.

I am sorry to say this, but the fundamentals of PWM (the market, per capita income of Maine, a runway 1,200-2,000ft shorter than BTV and MHT) make it the LEAST likely to attract TATL service of the three.
 
B595
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:07 am

btvhopper wrote:
It's worth noting that Deputy Aviation Director Nic Lungo mentioned re-paving of the concrete around the terminal will allow the accommodation of "Larger planes." Also, this is an airport management that likes to be tight-lipped about expansion plans; so just because they're not public about anything doesn't mean its not in the scope.

Very interesting - I hope something is in the works.

On a different note, I'm curious to see whether Delta, with its steady build-up in BOS, may finally be the one to resurrect BTV-BOS service, using a Delta Connection regional. Maybe a few years down the road, assuming the economy remains reasonably healthy.
 
33lspotter
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:25 am

btvhopper wrote:
Despite poor management at MHT, I still see no path of how PWM will be able attract this service. Unless the state forks over a pile of corporate welfare in some sort of revenue guarantee, which I also don’t see happening.

I mostly agree with this. The only exception I see to that is potentially Iceland, where Eimskip is headquartered, and Eimskip has a big US office in Portland. And MHT would need to get its act together with regards to CBP facilities. I think airlines want to see those facilities before they commit to sending flights there.

btvhopper wrote:
BTV is a totally different market and more favorable because of the potential to draw from the 4.2m Montreal area, where TATL flights face higher Canadian fees and fuel costs. The province is very, very close to completing Autoroute 35, which will offer seemless freeway service from Montreal connecting to I-89 in Highgate. Will be a total game changer for Vermont-Quebec trade and relations once completed.

I get that you're a BTV booster, and you raise solid points, but I'm not buying this one. You mention BTV and Montreal potential, but if Montrealers have not used BTV up to now (for intracontinental operations), what is to suggest that they will want to do so in the future for either intracontinental or TATL flights (even with the Autoroute)? Moreover, in addition to the longer drive, I imagine that many Canadians would rather not deal with US CBP (multiple times). If it's "I can either drive 1:45 to save a bit and go through customs (once on the way out and twice on the way back) or go to YUL which is a little more expensive and right here and I only have to go through customs upon re-entry" I think the choice is clear. Personally, I live in Greater Boston, and if Boston was 1:45 from a Canadian airport and I was faced with the reverse scenario I'd still rather go out of BOS.

btvhopper wrote:
BTV doesn't have a shorter runway like PWM. Full-sized runway should be no problem for an A330 or 787.

I do not see a heavy serving any of the three airports. Rather, I would imagine it to be a 737 MAX or A320neo.

btvhopper wrote:
I am sorry to say this, but the fundamentals of PWM (the market, per capita income of Maine, a runway 1,200-2,000ft shorter than BTV and MHT) make it the LEAST likely to attract TATL service of the three.

I grew up in Maine and would love to see Maine get a TATL flight, but I am more than happy living in Greater Boston where I can: A. take TATL flights from close by and for cheap and B. watch them take off over my neighborhood. That being said, while I don't think the chances of PWM are great (say, 6% probability), I do not see BTV being, say, thrice the probability (18%).

As for the fundamentals: 1. What market? The Burlington-Montreal market that will now form due to the Autoroute? European markets (which haven't been specified)? 2. PWM's catchment area is much less than the area of the state of Maine, and the per capita income in the Greater Portland area is much higher than the state as a whole. Therefore, I don't think the per capita income of Maine is relevant to PWM. 3. Again, nobody said it would have to be a widebody -- a 737 MAX or A321neo would likely suffice, and unless BTV can seriously up its passenger recruitment efforts and get a few hundred Canadians on TATL flights, no WAY do they sustain a flight on an aircraft of A330 or 787 size.
 
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Revelation
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:16 pm

33lspotter wrote:
I grew up in Maine and would love to see Maine get a TATL flight, but I am more than happy living in Greater Boston where I can: A. take TATL flights from close by and for cheap and B. watch them take off over my neighborhood.

I think we're pretty lucky to live in a region where we have a non-fortress hub like BOS where the majors, the minors and the ULCC are competing heavily.

I'm not sure the occasional TATL bone that we get tossed our way (i.e. BDL/PVD/etc with a small number of flights that go to secondary airports at odd times) is really helping the market dynamics.

It seems those flights fail more often than succeed, which makes it more difficult for the next entrant.
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mjgbtv
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:28 pm

33lspotter wrote:
btvhopper wrote:
BTV is a totally different market and more favorable because of the potential to draw from the 4.2m Montreal area, where TATL flights face higher Canadian fees and fuel costs. The province is very, very close to completing Autoroute 35, which will offer seemless freeway service from Montreal connecting to I-89 in Highgate. Will be a total game changer for Vermont-Quebec trade and relations once completed.

I get that you're a BTV booster, and you raise solid points, but I'm not buying this one. You mention BTV and Montreal potential, but if Montrealers have not used BTV up to now (for intracontinental operations), what is to suggest that they will want to do so in the future for either intracontinental or TATL flights (even with the Autoroute)? Moreover, in addition to the longer drive, I imagine that many Canadians would rather not deal with US CBP (multiple times). If it's "I can either drive 1:45 to save a bit and go through customs (once on the way out and twice on the way back) or go to YUL which is a little more expensive and right here and I only have to go through customs upon re-entry" I think the choice is clear. Personally, I live in Greater Boston, and if Boston was 1:45 from a Canadian airport and I was faced with the reverse scenario I'd still rather go out of BOS.


But Montrealers HAVE used BTV up to now. The last stat I saw was that 40% of BTV enplanements are Canadians. Looking at the numbers it's clear that lots of people are coming from outside the Burlington metro area. I don't know that I would consider all-highway access to the Highgate border crossing as a game changer, but it couldn't hurt.

As for choosing to trade time and inconvenience for saving money, it has been amply proven that some people will do that. This particular choice seems to have some merit, so I'm sure some Canadians would opt for it.

All that said, though, I would be quite surprised if BTV gets any TATL service. I just don't get the sense that that airport management sees it as a high priority, or that they or the state are willing to go out on a limb financially to get it.
 
mjgbtv
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:39 pm

B595 wrote:
btvhopper wrote:
It's worth noting that Deputy Aviation Director Nic Lungo mentioned re-paving of the concrete around the terminal will allow the accommodation of "Larger planes." Also, this is an airport management that likes to be tight-lipped about expansion plans; so just because they're not public about anything doesn't mean its not in the scope.

Very interesting - I hope something is in the works.

On a different note, I'm curious to see whether Delta, with its steady build-up in BOS, may finally be the one to resurrect BTV-BOS service, using a Delta Connection regional. Maybe a few years down the road, assuming the economy remains reasonably healthy.


It would certainly help if they could partly fill a BOS flight with connecting traffic. I just don't see a BTV-BOS flight making it on O&D only. However, Delta already has other connection points from BTV that are arguably better than BOS for a lot of destinations.
 
Fex180
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:45 pm

btvhopper wrote:
I still see no path of how PWM will be able attract this service. Unless the state forks over a pile of corporate welfare in some sort of revenue guarantee, which I also don’t see happening.
.


I honestly wouldn't be too surprised if this was the case. Maine is trying hard to reposition itself as "America's gateway to the Arctic" and if the right people in the states private sector (as well as Jetport management) want a flight to KEF, I'm sure they could convince Maine DoT to fork over some money, at least to get the service up and running, they've spent money on stranger things (rebuilding a dead end rail line that has no customers)

I think the argument of whether PWM or BTV is better suited for TATL service is a bit premature, sure each market has strengths and weaknesses, and sure PWM management dreams of Reykjavik every night , but both airports have much more immediate (and achievable) expansion goals.
 
Portlander
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:11 pm

btvhopper, the Office of Management and Budget defines metropolitan areas through a complex and detailed format, you don't. Burlington's MSA covers 3 counties just like Portland's. Portland's CSA counts the Lewiston-Auburn area, it's MSA does not. Burlington does not warrant a CSA because it's not large enough. Burlington's MSA extends to the Canadian border to the north beyond Vincennes to the south. Portland's MSA does extend to Kittery (42 miles) to the south and Brunswick (28 miles) to the North, both MSA's actually cover similar square miles. Both MSA's pay a penalty for lack of land mass to count bodies, Portland with the Atlantic ocean to the east and Burlington with the Lake Champlain to the west which actually makes their counts more impressive. In an attempt to be fair, I chose Portland's MSA which is smaller than it's CSA for comparison purposes with Burlington. But I'm sure you would agree that residents of Lewiston-Auburn do utilize PWM instead of driving an hour and a half to BGR for one third of the service?

So before you start throwing the absurd word around and coming up with your own fantasy counts, do a little more research and understand the difference between an MSA and a CSA. If you really believe that Greater Portland is only around 60K larger than Greater Burlington by your estimates, best to you. With that said, I agree with your belief that BTV has better odds of eventually landing TATL service. I also love Burlington and consider it my second favorite city in New England and visit as often as possible. I think BTV is an excellent regional airport and is quite possibly the busiest airport in the country for a city with a population of less than 45,000. Would trade your runway with Portland's and I also prefer your terminal lay out with two separate concourses over PWM's one long concourse. Both cities and their airports pack quite a punch for their smaller size, let's be proud of them and enjoy the flight!
Last edited by Portlander on Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
paysonmt77
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:11 pm

PWM will have a press conference today to announce that PWM has surpassed the 2 million mark....20 days before the end of the year....and to answer the overseas question. There a several companies in the Portland area that send their employees overseas , WEX, Idexx, Vets First Choice, etc and there are several companies moving to the area to experience the area. Is Portland big enough to handle flights to Iceland and Europe? None could answer that. Summertime, would be the best bet. 2-3X weekly service would work. Nothing too fancy. At some point, Logan will be saturated and people will shop somewhere else. Its a fact, MHT does not have the draw anymore and probably will not in the near future. Is MHT a tourist destination? no, do I have any interest to visit? no. Vermont is a tourist draw as well as Maine. Maine has attracted several Nordic companies including a salmon farm and Eimskip. Maine's population doubles in the summertime. A lot of people come to Maine from Europe in the summertime and have to deal with the headaches of Logan.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:21 pm

paysonmt77 wrote:
PWM will have a press conference today to announce that PWM has surpassed the 2 million mark....20 days before the end of the year....and to answer the overseas question. There a several companies in the Portland area that send their employees overseas , WEX, Idexx, Vets First Choice, etc and there are several companies moving to the area to experience the area. Is Portland big enough to handle flights to Iceland and Europe? None could answer that. Summertime, would be the best bet. 2-3X weekly service would work. Nothing too fancy. At some point, Logan will be saturated and people will shop somewhere else. Its a fact, MHT does not have the draw anymore and probably will not in the near future. Is MHT a tourist destination? no, do I have any interest to visit? no. Vermont is a tourist draw as well as Maine. Maine has attracted several Nordic companies including a salmon farm and Eimskip. Maine's population doubles in the summertime. A lot of people come to Maine from Europe in the summertime and have to deal with the headaches of Logan.


I would agree with most of what you say here, however I take a little bit of issue with the fact that Logan will be saturated, it's going to be a long time before that happens. Let's not forget there's 7 new International gates coming on line over time. Right now, you could say it's Saturated because at peak times there's no gate space, so now would be the time for PWM to act and see if they can drag something out of FI, but with the expansions coming, that issue is going to get kicked down the road a good 10+ years. Contrary to popular belief that BOS is done in terms of space and growth, they still have plenty to go, Massport believe 50m is possible with what they have right now and honestly in a theoretical world, they could manage up to 70m (but that's not going to happen before anyone calls me on it), 4 new gates being built, more turns per gate possible unless you are WN, DL expanding with more room even above what they have recently announced, and B6 still have plenty to go..

So yes, your points are valid on MHT and PWM, but I would caution about BOS, it will probably be 2030 before we have to have this conversation seriously.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
Portlander
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:35 pm

Does anyone else think that it would be better for marketing purposes if MHT would change it's name to New Hampshire International? Other than it's one month of fame every four years during the primary process, "Manchester" just does not seem to resonate with vacationers or the traveling public throughout the rest of the country in my opinion. But "New Hampshire" does seem to be more impactful and luring with it's live free or die thing and its beautiful lakes and mountains. And "Gateway to New Hampshire" may be a more useful slogan over "Gateway to Northern New England" which it no longer is due to the continued success of BTV and PWM. Just a though . . . and if it's already be discussed before, my bad!
 
33lspotter
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:22 pm

mjgbtv wrote:
But Montrealers HAVE used BTV up to now. The last stat I saw was that 40% of BTV enplanements are Canadians. Looking at the numbers it's clear that lots of people are coming from outside the Burlington metro area. I don't know that I would consider all-highway access to the Highgate border crossing as a game changer, but it couldn't hurt.

As for choosing to trade time and inconvenience for saving money, it has been amply proven that some people will do that. This particular choice seems to have some merit, so I'm sure some Canadians would opt for it.

All that said, though, I would be quite surprised if BTV gets any TATL service. I just don't get the sense that that airport management sees it as a high priority, or that they or the state are willing to go out on a limb financially to get it.


Fair enough. I guess my point would then be if Canadians are already using it and there are only 600,000 enplanements (2016 numbers) I think it's still hardly enough to sustain an A330 or 787 service as hypothesized (albeit not by yourself). I can hardly think an airline will take the "if you build it they will come" approach unless the state of VT provides some kickbacks or revenue guarantees; I think BTV would have to boost its passenger counts first. Same goes for PBG, which is significantly smaller than BTV in that respect, albeit PBG is closer to MTL and has a longer runway, which I think make for better "fundamentals". But, I also recognize your candor that airport management doesn't see it as a priority, at least not publicly.

VS4ever wrote:
I would agree with most of what you say here, however I take a little bit of issue with the fact that Logan will be saturated, it's going to be a long time before that happens. Let's not forget there's 7 new International gates coming on line over time. Right now, you could say it's Saturated because at peak times there's no gate space, so now would be the time for PWM to act and see if they can drag something out of FI, but with the expansions coming, that issue is going to get kicked down the road a good 10+ years. Contrary to popular belief that BOS is done in terms of space and growth, they still have plenty to go, Massport believe 50m is possible with what they have right now and honestly in a theoretical world, they could manage up to 70m (but that's not going to happen before anyone calls me on it), 4 new gates being built, more turns per gate possible unless you are WN, DL expanding with more room even above what they have recently announced, and B6 still have plenty to go..

So yes, your points are valid on MHT and PWM, but I would caution about BOS, it will probably be 2030 before we have to have this conversation seriously.

Yeah, BOS still has quite some way to go in terms of being saturated. I think the line people throw around is about how bad the traffic is and how congested it is (compared to MHT/PVD/BDL/etc.) but in my experience BOS is a way better experience than other major airports like, say, JFK (I hate JFK T4 with a passion).
 
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:46 pm

The airline business is funny and fickle. I really don't believe the name change to 'Manchester-Boston-Regional' had anything to do with its backward slide, nor do I think a new name will help it revive. Airlines do what they do based on things that are more macro than that. However, I'm cautiously optimistic that the new guy at the helm now can do something positive.
 
Fex180
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:46 pm

In regards to PWM's new pax record, 2 million is a pretty big milestone. I'm always amazed with the level of service Portland enjoys compared to other metro areas of similar size. this milestone might be a catalyst for new service or expansion of existing service. WN daily to MDW, AA to DFW, F9 to FLL or MIA are realistic possibilities for the Jetport with this type of pax growth. Excited to see what comes next!
 
tomaheath
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:28 am

chrisnh wrote:
The airline business is funny and fickle. I really don't believe the name change to 'Manchester-Boston-Regional' had anything to do with its backward slide, nor do I think a new name will help it revive. Airlines do what they do based on things that are more macro than that. However, I'm cautiously optimistic that the new guy at the helm now can do something positive.

I’m definitely not a fan of”Boston” in the name but I agree that probably doesn’t give or take to much from the airport actually it would probably cost more than it’s worth to change the name between all the signage website etc. Hasn’t been much news from the airport but I guess it’s probably still too soon. IIRC didn’t more than one “retire” when the new mayor took office?
 
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:28 am

Why do people keep discussing MHT getting international service? It's not going to. Manchester is not an existing port of entry like Portland and Portsmouth are. The federal government has proven stingy about hiring adequate CBP staff at existing ports of entry. The only reason why PSM is an international airport is because Portsmouth has a working port (the only one in NH) and can send CBP personnel to PSM easily as needed. Same deal with PWM but PSM makes for a better example that status as an existing port of entry is more important than the size and economic activity within the city a particular airport serves.
 
tomaheath
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:02 am

Jouhou wrote:
Why do people keep discussing MHT getting international service? It's not going to. Manchester is not an existing port of entry like Portland and Portsmouth are. The federal government has proven stingy about hiring adequate CBP staff at existing ports of entry. The only reason why PSM is an international airport is because Portsmouth has a working port (the only one in NH) and can send CBP personnel to PSM easily as needed. Same deal with PWM but PSM makes for a better example that status as an existing port of entry is more important than the size and economic activity within the city a particular airport serves.

I believe they send personal from Pease to Manchester when needed for GA international arrivals.
 
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Revelation
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:18 pm

Jouhou wrote:
Why do people keep discussing MHT getting international service? It's not going to. Manchester is not an existing port of entry like Portland and Portsmouth are. The federal government has proven stingy about hiring adequate CBP staff at existing ports of entry. The only reason why PSM is an international airport is because Portsmouth has a working port (the only one in NH) and can send CBP personnel to PSM easily as needed. Same deal with PWM but PSM makes for a better example that status as an existing port of entry is more important than the size and economic activity within the city a particular airport serves.

I agree with what you say about the CBP / FIS issues.

The point above was that MHT had the required population density, but IMHO didn't factor in the fact that most of that population is willing to suffer the drive to BOS to gain the lower fares that competition brings.

MHT really doesn't have much of a chance to gain international flights, especially as we see WOW retrench and don't see big successes in international flights to other similarly sized airports such as BDL and PVD.

I looked at Icelandair for my last TATL and decided going a long way out of my way just to change planes in the middle of the night wasn't worth the relatively small delta in price.

In short, my optimism for new TATL entrants is not as high as I thought it would be, but I do wish them luck, if for no other reason than to keep competitive pressure on the legacies.
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airbazar
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:49 pm

btvhopper wrote:
The reason PWM is not realistic for TATL is because MHT is so much better positioned. Bigger airport/runway, infrastructure already in place and a much more affluent, more heavily populated area. There’s not room for TATL service at both airports. Despite poor management at MHT, I still see no path of how PWM will be able attract this service. Unless the state forks over a pile of corporate welfare in some sort of revenue guarantee, which I also don’t see happening.

One big, nearly insurmountable problem for MHT: No CBP or international gates.
Incentives for new service happen everywhere including at BOS. MHT would need the same "corporate welfare" to attract TATL service, on top of having to spend money to build a CBP facility and most difficult of all, it would have to convince the Federal government to staff it. MHT can't even maintain a flight to ORD or EWR, not way in hell they will ever have TATL service to anywhere other than Dublin.
VS4ever wrote:
Contrary to popular belief that BOS is done in terms of space and growth, they still have plenty to go, Massport believe 50m is possible with what they have right now and honestly in a theoretical world, they could manage up to 70m

LGW handles over 45 million pax with a single runway. IST handles 60+ million with a configuration very similar to BOS. LHR is approaching 80 million with only 2 runways. So I'd say at least 60 million for BOS should be doable. It won't be fun but doable.
But here's the thing, 60 million pax is on par with SFO, DEN, JFK and just shy of DFW numbers. I don't think BOS will ever be that large so therefore BOS will never reach its full capacity. At least not in my lifetime.
 
cheapgreek
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:52 pm

Revelation wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Why do people keep discussing MHT getting international service? It's not going to. Manchester is not an existing port of entry like Portland and Portsmouth are. The federal government has proven stingy about hiring adequate CBP staff at existing ports of entry. The only reason why PSM is an international airport is because Portsmouth has a working port (the only one in NH) and can send CBP personnel to PSM easily as needed. Same deal with PWM but PSM makes for a better example that status as an existing port of entry is more important than the size and economic activity within the city a particular airport serves.

I agree with what you say about the CBP / FIS issues.

The point above was that MHT had the required population density, but IMHO didn't factor in the fact that most of that population is willing to suffer the drive to BOS to gain the lower fares that competition brings.

MHT really doesn't have much of a chance to gain international flights, especially as we see WOW retrench and don't see big successes in international flights to other similarly sized airports such as BDL and PVD.

I looked at Icelandair for my last TATL and decided going a long way out of my way just to change planes in the middle of the night wasn't worth the relatively small delta in price.

In short, my optimism for new TATL entrants is not as high as I thought it would be, but I do wish them luck, if for no other reason than to keep competitive pressure on the legacies.


The small tier New England airports with one airline offering several weekly flights to one small European city does not constitute being a viable international airport. With BOS serving and within reach of much of New England and JFK serving much of southern CT, with many foreign and US airlines with dozens of flights to large hub cities such as CDG, LHR, FRA, MUC, MAD, BRU, AMS, etc, its becomes apparent where much of the traveling public goes to for international travel.
 
paysonmt77
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:56 pm

AA just announced MHT-ORD starts next summer 2019...
 
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:57 pm

paysonmt77 wrote:
AA just announced MHT-ORD starts next summer 2019...


I knew it had to happen...Great news. They've got a terrific bank of connections there at ORD, so it's basically just as good if not better than what UA had.
 
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Thu Dec 13, 2018 3:46 pm

paysonmt77 wrote:
AA just announced MHT-ORD starts next summer 2019...


I think MHT has finally hit rock-bottom and will finally start coming back. Though I doubt it will ever get back to the mid-2000's glory days.

Time will tell, but I think this was just an airport that rode the WN bubble a bit too enthusiastically and become too dependent on WN, ultimately resulting in a market with monopolistic tendencies which slowly led to higher prices, and consumers that could find better options to the south.

The legacies are much better positioned now to compete with WN, as well as the new ULCC. It will be a slow process to rebuild, but I think they'll able to stop the bleeding to BOS and regain the market share they lost to PWM and BTV. Remember, it was't long ago that Southern Maine's and Central Vermont's default airport was MHT.
 
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:02 pm

Although people disagree with me (and their points are valid), BOS may reach a saturation point where being 'close' to Boston is seen as an advantage for MHT. Remember during the Big Dig, getting to Logan was a nightmare. That's what drew the growth at MHT. But thanks to the bus service to Logan from Manchester, Nashua, and Tyngsboro (which I've used, and it's good if your timings work), getting to Logan isn't the chore it used to be. And of course, the highways are much better now.

However, Logan is filling up with flights to the point where it could be a good 45 minutes from pulling away from the gate to being airborne. That's 45 minutes planes wouldn't have to lose at MHT. Less fuel wasted, less time lost.

But Massport won't do MHT any favors. And why should they? The 'reliever' of choice for them is their very own Worcester.

So I do agree that for MHT, there's nowhere to go but up. Airlines need to start suffering some 'pain' down at Logan if they're going to come back to (or even enter) MHT. Time will tell whether Boston's abundant airline success will be a tipping point for nearby MHT. In the end, MHT had great success back in the early 2000s. I was on many full UA 757s to and from MHT, so it's not as though the potential of the place is in question.
Last edited by chrisnh on Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
Novaboy2525
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:04 pm

What are the odds that this is the year (2019) that BDL finally lands a flight to Seattle on either AS or DL? Airport executive director Kevin Dillion seems to make it seem like the airport is pushing hard for it. Maybe a deal similar to what happened in PIT to lure AS there. BDL was my home airport growing up and I love to see it succeed and grow. Now that I live in Washington and work at SEA, I long for a direct flight where I wouldn't have to connect or have to fly in BOS or make the dreaded mistake of flying into JFK.
http://m.hartfordbusiness.com/article/2 ... es-in-2019
 
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:48 pm

chrisnh wrote:
Although people disagree with me (and their points are valid), BOS may reach a saturation point where being 'close' to Boston is seen as an advantage for MHT. Remember during the Big Dig, getting to Logan was a nightmare. That's what drew the growth at MHT. But thanks to the bus service to Logan from Manchester, Nashua, and Tyngsboro (which I've used, and it's good if your timings work), getting to Logan isn't the chore it used to be. And of course, the highways are much better now.

However, Logan is filling up with flights to the point where it could be a good 45 minutes from pulling away from the gate to being airborne. That's 45 minutes planes wouldn't have to lose at MHT. Less fuel wasted, less time lost.

But Massport won't do MHT any favors. And why should they? The 'reliever' of choice for them is their very own Worcester.

So I do agree that for MHT, there's nowhere to go but up. Airlines need to start suffering some 'pain' down at Logan if they're going to come back to (or even enter) MHT. Time will tell whether Boston's abundant airline success will be a tipping point for nearby MHT. In the end, MHT had great success back in the early 2000s. I was on many full UA 757s to and from MHT, so it's not as though the potential of the place is in question.


I agree with most of what you are saying, but I want to push back on the 45 minute number. We are at 421,000 flights a year right now and the averages are running in the mid to high 20's so we are quite a way off hitting 45 with the worst being around 30-32 YTD and let's not forget, a lot of that is baked into the block time of the flight anyway, so I am not sure anyone would really see it as an issue. Most folks find as long as they get away from the gate on time and land around the time the airline tells them, how they get there in between is less of an issue, in fact the average arrival delay is 6 minutes, which tells you exactly what's going on and I bet if I fixed that around routes, a lot of that would be JFK, EWR, LGA and PHL based. (in fact i might try to look at that, if i have time), The average taxi time is in the high teens low 20's, but honestly if you have to go to the far end of 33L or 27, that's a long taxi to have to cross 4L, and 4R and head out there, so those numbers are never really going to come down too much.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
bomber996
Posts: 495
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:21 am

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:02 pm

paysonmt77 wrote:
AA just announced MHT-ORD starts next summer 2019...


https://www.flymanchester.com/news/amer ... 5ErYk9kC6g
"We've recently upped our standards, so up yours." - Federal Aviation Administration

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