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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:53 pm
by Fex180
MIflyer12 wrote:
paysonmt77 wrote:
Northwest used to fly from PWM-MSP, after the merger with Delta, the route was discontinued.


IIRC, that was a single CR2 that lasted one summer season.

Happily, the CR2s that used to fly DTW-PWM have been upgauged to CR9s (and even a 717 for summer).


Wonder if DL would ever consider bringing back MSP service to PWM, PVD & MHT. Right now they run 3x daily from PWM to DTW with CR9s and 717s, the route does fairly well so further westward connections wouldn't be unreasonable.

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:44 pm
by chrisnh
LotsaRunway wrote:
Revelation wrote:
tomaheath wrote:
Manchester has a new director starting this fall. http://www.unionleader.com/business/hou ... t-20180718

How long before this person gets a slagging here on a.net? :scratchchin:

He's going to be a disappointment if he doesn't bring in B6 on his first week on the job. :stirthepot:


The way things are going at MHT, the focus ought to be stabilization...stem the negative tide. I would like to see the following, in this order:
1.) AA jumps into MHT-ORD
2.) WN adds one of the following: LAS/PHX/DEN (all of which it served non-stop before)...need more east-west out of MHT
3.) JetBlue comes in
4.) DL maintains a 717 MHT-DTW
5.) DL swaps the MD-88 to ATL with an A320
6.) UA returns MHT-ORD if #1 doesn't happen

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:53 pm
by 33lspotter
chrisnh wrote:
3.) JetBlue comes in


What do you think the chances of B6 coming to MHT are? I am not saying it's impossible or won't ever happen, but obviously they have not been keen on it in the past. Maybe new management will provide the catalyst needed.

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:37 pm
by Fex180
33lspotter wrote:
chrisnh wrote:
3.) JetBlue comes in


What do you think the chances of B6 coming to MHT are? I am not saying it's impossible or won't ever happen, but obviously they have not been keen on it in the past. Maybe new management will provide the catalyst needed.


It's not entirely beyond the realm of possibility. MHT has no service to JFK right now, and limited service to the NYC market compared to similarly sized PWM. B6 could easily gain the lions share of that market and I'm sure the management at MHT would bend over backwards to give Jetblue favorable terms.

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:40 pm
by chrisnh
33lspotter wrote:
chrisnh wrote:
3.) JetBlue comes in


What do you think the chances of B6 coming to MHT are? I am not saying it's impossible or won't ever happen, but obviously they have not been keen on it in the past. Maybe new management will provide the catalyst needed.


I would honestly say greater than 70% likelihood. B6 knows all about MHT. It's not a 'secret' to them or anyone else. The A220 might be a catalyst. In addition, continued apathy by Southwest at MHT might hasten B6's entrance and allow them the PR right to say that they're the only one among them serving all six New England states.

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:30 pm
by lat41
chrisnh wrote:
LotsaRunway wrote:
Revelation wrote:

The way things are going at MHT, the focus ought to be stabilization...stem the negative tide. I would like to see the following, in this order:

2.) WN adds one of the following: LAS/PHX/DEN (all of which it served non-stop before)...need more east-west out of MHT

Southwest has built a "Western Wall" for Manchester and to Providence to the South. Fares to Westbound destinations are purposefully and substantially higher and all the traffic is squeezed through BWI and MDW in order to support BOS where WN has taken a hammering from competition. I believe the idea was to pinch off MHT and if you like Southwest, you will follow them to BOS for anything not headed South. Passengers may have gone to BOS, but not necessarily to WN so I don't think it had the effect they thought. So the passengers who were wiling to pay a premium for LAS DEN and PHX from MHT were then scattered among all airlines at Boston and WN had to drop their fares there into the cellar to get market share. Now BOS will be getting a haircut from WN.

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:12 pm
by Fex180
lat41 wrote:
chrisnh wrote:
LotsaRunway wrote:

Southwest has built a "Western Wall" for Manchester and to Providence to the South. Fares to Westbound destinations are purposefully and substantially higher and all the traffic is squeezed through BWI and MDW in order to support BOS where WN has taken a hammering from competition. I believe the idea was to pinch off MHT and if you like Southwest, you will follow them to BOS for anything not headed South. Passengers may have gone to BOS, but not necessarily to WN so I don't think it had the effect they thought. So the passengers who were wiling to pay a premium for LAS DEN and PHX from MHT were then scattered among all airlines at Boston and WN had to drop their fares there into the cellar to get market share. Now BOS will be getting a haircut from WN.


This could also explain their general apathy at PWM.

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:12 pm
by LotsaRunway
lat41 wrote:
chrisnh wrote:
LotsaRunway wrote:

Southwest has built a "Western Wall" for Manchester and to Providence to the South. Fares to Westbound destinations are purposefully and substantially higher and all the traffic is squeezed through BWI and MDW in order to support BOS where WN has taken a hammering from competition. I believe the idea was to pinch off MHT and if you like Southwest, you will follow them to BOS for anything not headed South. Passengers may have gone to BOS, but not necessarily to WN so I don't think it had the effect they thought. So the passengers who were wiling to pay a premium for LAS DEN and PHX from MHT were then scattered among all airlines at Boston and WN had to drop their fares there into the cellar to get market share. Now BOS will be getting a haircut from WN.

On the flip side, WN never really tried to go south from BOS (except BWI and ATL which are really more attempts at business O&D), so they allow reasonably priced N-S from PVD and MHT since they don't compete with BOS. A very interesting, but yet failed, strategy. At some point, will they decide its time adjust BOS to what passengers really support without losing money, and allow PVD and MHT to regain some leaked market?

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:44 pm
by lat41
I also suspect the higher yielding business traveler stayed put with the airline they were at to a higher degree than WN estimated, so what do we have left. A lot of cities from BOS on "Click N' Save". How many cities make to that page from MHT? Not many and not often. WN has even trimmed the North-South stuff at MHT and PVD, thinning out selection and offering more super early departures or super late arrivals back home. When the "leaked market" returns to MHT, it may be another carrier(s).

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:21 pm
by cloudboy
I know its a bit heretic to say this on this forum. but one easy way to boost MHT flying would be to actually build a useful rail link to the airport. You already have the tracks there. Get a real train (and not some lumbering old MBTA coach) to stop in Nashua, Lowell, Burlington, and Boston. Make a good sized parking garage in Lowell with cheap parking, and make sure it runs at least hourly at least from 5:00am to 12:00am. Suddenly MHT becomes a lot easier to get to. And if you get the parking and timing combination right it offsets some of the extra cost to fly out of MHT.

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:31 pm
by LotsaRunway
cloudboy wrote:
I know its a bit heretic to say this on this forum. but one easy way to boost MHT flying would be to actually build a useful rail link to the airport. You already have the tracks there. Get a real train (and not some lumbering old MBTA coach) to stop in Nashua, Lowell, Burlington, and Boston. Make a good sized parking garage in Lowell with cheap parking, and make sure it runs at least hourly at least from 5:00am to 12:00am. Suddenly MHT becomes a lot easier to get to. And if you get the parking and timing combination right it offsets some of the extra cost to fly out of MHT.

I believe this has been proposed and studied, but from what I've heard, the problem is cost and politics. NH has found it to be cheaper to subsidize buses, which happen to also take travelers to Logan.

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:33 pm
by LotsaRunway
lat41 wrote:
I also suspect the higher yielding business traveler stayed put with the airline they were at to a higher degree than WN estimated, so what do we have left. A lot of cities from BOS on "Click N' Save". How many cities make to that page from MHT? Not many and not often. WN has even trimmed the North-South stuff at MHT and PVD, thinning out selection and offering more super early departures or super late arrivals back home. When the "leaked market" returns to MHT, it may be another carrier(s).

I think WN is discovering this very thing at PVD (leaked market returning to PVD, but on other airlines like F9).

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:39 pm
by LotsaRunway
When WN came roaring into PVD and MHT, they truly had low fares. The $39 fare to BWI was easy to get and the flights were frequent. Now a good sale price is around $79 and its gone on half the flights the day its put on sale. The $78 round trip is much more like $300. Granted, that's not a horrible fare, but its high enough that it's no longer really stimulating the market. WN is just another airline with average prices. I remember friends grabbing a flight from PVD to BWI to catch a Red Sox game at Camden yards. Including game ticket, it was under $100.

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:07 pm
by cheapgreek
cloudboy wrote:
I know its a bit heretic to say this on this forum. but one easy way to boost MHT flying would be to actually build a useful rail link to the airport. You already have the tracks there. Get a real train (and not some lumbering old MBTA coach) to stop in Nashua, Lowell, Burlington, and Boston. Make a good sized parking garage in Lowell with cheap parking, and make sure it runs at least hourly at least from 5:00am to 12:00am. Suddenly MHT becomes a lot easier to get to. And if you get the parking and timing combination right it offsets some of the extra cost to fly out of MHT.


Too costly and why would flyers from Burlington and Lowell get on a train when BOS is closer and offers many more options.

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:56 pm
by iyerhari
cloudboy wrote:
I know its a bit heretic to say this on this forum. but one easy way to boost MHT flying would be to actually build a useful rail link to the airport. You already have the tracks there. Get a real train (and not some lumbering old MBTA coach) to stop in Nashua, Lowell, Burlington, and Boston. Make a good sized parking garage in Lowell with cheap parking, and make sure it runs at least hourly at least from 5:00am to 12:00am. Suddenly MHT becomes a lot easier to get to. And if you get the parking and timing combination right it offsets some of the extra cost to fly out of MHT.

With the current state of politics, it will take probably decades to ever get a rail working. My understanding is that NH state was not interested in building the rail connection and they opted for private service providers to commute to BOS. I think the ship is gradually sailing away from MHT - people have opted and reconciled to traveling to Logan. I personally do not see WN ever leaving Logan no matter how bad they do! BOS is too important of a station to be there and a truly global city. Too important of a city to not have a presence - similar to LGA, EWR and some of the other Northeast cities where they are way behind.

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:25 pm
by lat41
[quote=
I think WN is discovering this very thing at PVD (leaked market returning to PVD, but on other airlines like F9).[/quote]
Frontier and Allegiant did a tune on Southwest at PVD to Florida grabbing so much of the bargain and leisure business and WN just let it happen along with F9 to DEN which WN should be doing. I would have much rather have seen an established carrier with a legitimate hub snatch this business rather than a fickle Frontier but now we have AA quietly building a nice operation. Most every schedule change of theirs adds a couple dozen seats here and there with several hundred seats just to CLT each day and not $89.00 stuff. Now comes AA MIA with access to Central America and the Caribbean. Could MHT entice Allegiant to move their way? That would let the genie out of the bottle to an extent though they might not like that in Portsmouth!

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:25 pm
by Revelation
cloudboy wrote:
I know its a bit heretic to say this on this forum. but one easy way to boost MHT flying would be to actually build a useful rail link to the airport. You already have the tracks there. Get a real train (and not some lumbering old MBTA coach) to stop in Nashua, Lowell, Burlington, and Boston. Make a good sized parking garage in Lowell with cheap parking, and make sure it runs at least hourly at least from 5:00am to 12:00am. Suddenly MHT becomes a lot easier to get to. And if you get the parking and timing combination right it offsets some of the extra cost to fly out of MHT.

That can't/won't happen till all the hillbillies and MAGAs are pushed out of the NH state legislature.

iyerhari wrote:
With the current state of politics, it will take probably decades to ever get a rail working. My understanding is that NH state was not interested in building the rail connection and they opted for private service providers to commute to BOS. I think the ship is gradually sailing away from MHT - people have opted and reconciled to traveling to Logan. I personally do not see WN ever leaving Logan no matter how bad they do! BOS is too important of a station to be there and a truly global city. Too important of a city to not have a presence - similar to LGA, EWR and some of the other Northeast cities where they are way behind.

Yes, that's an excellent of putting it. Today's BOS is a different place than when WN was setting up shop in MHT and they are steadily losing ground. BOS used to be almost all legacies and regionals and next to no useful LCC options. Today it offers all kinds of choices at all kinds of prices, and ground transportation has greatly improved too. It's still something of a pain to access, but in most instances the gains exceed the pains. I don't see how hiring one new executive director can reverse the trend.

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:26 pm
by iyerhari
LotsaRunway wrote:
When WN came roaring into PVD and MHT, they truly had low fares. The $39 fare to BWI was easy to get and the flights were frequent. Now a good sale price is around $79 and its gone on half the flights the day its put on sale. The $78 round trip is much more like $300. Granted, that's not a horrible fare, but its high enough that it's no longer really stimulating the market. WN is just another airline with average prices. I remember friends grabbing a flight from PVD to BWI to catch a Red Sox game at Camden yards. Including game ticket, it was under $100.

I think it was a different time too when WN came to PVD and MHT. The BOS economy in the current times is very global and times have changed. If that was not the case, the slew of international carriers in BOS would not have ever occurred.

Where there used to be 10 carriers - there are three massive traditional carriers who have stronger networks and JVs and few other niche carriers (WN, B6, AS/VX etc.) who exist in the marketplace. WN realized that they needed to be where the action is in NYC, BOS and few other Northeast cities realizing that secondary airports can only go so far - it is the primary that matters after all. Boston is not like Texas - in Texas it is common for people to drive 2 hrs. - here that means a lot. PVD is doing a lot better compared to MHT IMO thanks to a decent catchment area and a number of good companies in the area. If you however ask a PVD native who needs to commute on business or pleasure to Asia or Europe (not counting domestic) - the chances that he/she will commute to Logan vs. taking a connection in some US city. You can only go such much and so far from PVD to DUB!

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:03 pm
by cheapgreek
CLT-HVN flights. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1400625

"AA announced today that they are adding a daily DFW-CYS operated by Skywest CRJ200 and a Saturday only CLT-HVN on PSA CRJ 200."

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:32 am
by lat41
HVN to CLT will be a good connecting point and alernative to PHL especially in Winter for any Southern timeshare, vacation package or cruise bound passengers if it is timed right.

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:16 am
by spinkid
Charlotte – New Haven eff 22DEC18 1 weekly CRJ200 (PSA Airlines)
AA5053 CLT0735 – 0920HVN CRJ 6
AA5053 HVN0955 – 1158CLT CRJ 6

Its quite expensive so far, unless they are booked almost full already.

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:23 pm
by pwm2txlhopper
Frontier has just announced RSW-PWM. Over on another thread, somebody mentioned they will also announce TPA-PWM today and, apparently, it's bookable..

'Frontier Airlines announces six new routes from Fort Myers, Florida'

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/f ... 924312002/

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:07 pm
by paysonmt77
With these announcements from Frontier, I just can't wait for the PAX numbers to come out at the end of the year. Predictions? A strong winter will propel PWM into historic numbers. If these flights do well for bookings, I would see PBI added for the east coast(In line with ISP and PVD). This should stop some of the flow to BOS(JetBlue) to RSW and TPA. With Tampa and RSW, I am curious to see if Allegiant at BGR and PSM continue to survive as well as elite to srq. Elite is starting flights from PWM to Key West this fall via MLB. This should siphon some traffic away from those flights. Never in my life would I expect RSW, TPA, DEN, from PWM. Another blow to the crippling MHT.

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:14 pm
by airbazar
iyerhari wrote:
PVD is doing a lot better compared to MHT IMO thanks to a decent catchment area and a number of good companies in the area.

Both of which are true for MHT as well.
The real difference is airport management. The guy in charge of PVD from 2012 to 2016 came from MHT. That's all you need to know.
Then they hired this guy:
http://www.pvdairport.com/corporate/new ... en-airport
Simply put RIAC has done a much better job at hiring the right person for the job, IMO.

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:48 pm
by Fex180
paysonmt77 wrote:
With these announcements from Frontier, I just can't wait for the PAX numbers to come out at the end of the year. Predictions? A strong winter will propel PWM into historic numbers. If these flights do well for bookings, I would see PBI added for the east coast(In line with ISP and PVD). This should stop some of the flow to BOS(JetBlue) to RSW and TPA. With Tampa and RSW, I am curious to see if Allegiant at BGR and PSM continue to survive as well as elite to srq. Elite is starting flights from PWM to Key West this fall via MLB. This should siphon some traffic away from those flights. Never in my life would I expect RSW, TPA, DEN, from PWM. Another blow to the crippling MHT.


Everything I hear is saying that PWM-DEN is extremely successful, and they've added more flights through August and September.

Curious to see whether Frontiers success at PWM will spur B6 and WN into expansion. They've both been complacent at PWM for years now.

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:49 pm
by RL757PVD
airbazar wrote:
iyerhari wrote:
PVD is doing a lot better compared to MHT IMO thanks to a decent catchment area and a number of good companies in the area.

Both of which are true for MHT as well.
The real difference is airport management. The guy in charge of PVD from 2012 to 2016 came from MHT. That's all you need to know.
Then they hired this guy:
http://www.pvdairport.com/corporate/new ... en-airport
Simply put RIAC has done a much better job at hiring the right person for the job, IMO.


Management has much less influence on air service than a lot of people think. Back in the day when fuel was low and pilots were abundant it may have been more true. These days it all comes down to the market itself. The only real area that management can have the biggest impact on air service is CPE, and with a MHT story when the bottom falls out, its extremely difficult to orchestrate a meaningful CPE reduction that would translate into air service.

If you think BOS has been out there banging on the doors of all of these new airlines and hitting up the airline networking conference circuit, you'd be surprised. Its the market and market dynamics such as NYC airports full + B6 Feed, and old low cost terminals. BOS is far less active than their peers in recruiting new service yet more sucessful, thanks to the market. The market is the market, is the market!

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:14 pm
by airbazar
RL757PVD wrote:
If you think BOS has been out there banging on the doors of all of these new airlines and hitting up the airline networking conference circuit, you'd be surprised.

Actually they have. Most of the ground work was set by Gov. Patrick and his administration. Some people here in MA accused him of traveling too much and wasting tax payer money but now we know why. He was out there selling MA and Logan airport to airlines along with Massport and other local executives. The governor never traveled alone.
http://www.bostonherald.com/news_opinio ... d_millions
https://www.breitbart.com/big-governmen ... ish-trips/
Take a close look at where those trips took him. Coincidence?

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:35 pm
by iyerhari
airbazar wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:
If you think BOS has been out there banging on the doors of all of these new airlines and hitting up the airline networking conference circuit, you'd be surprised.

Actually they have. Most of the ground work was set by Gov. Patrick and his administration. Some people here in MA accused him of traveling too much and wasting tax payer money but now we know why. He was out there selling MA and Logan airport to airlines along with Massport and other local executives. The governor never traveled alone.
http://www.bostonherald.com/news_opinio ... d_millions
https://www.breitbart.com/big-governmen ... ish-trips/
Take a close look at where those trips took him. Coincidence?

I agree with you but this also has to do with globalization - thanks to universities that already existed plus the shifting of businesses from being parochial to global also contributed to that? The reason I say that say that if governor of NH or RI (and not offenses to them please) were to embark on a world trip to entice airlines to come to their respective home state airports, we are all pretty much sure how far this may go! Without going into the scam details, the Mass. economy which has some industry and private sectors ponied up together to bring in airlines.

Whatever one has to say and however one puts it, I do not believe there has been airport like BOS that has been able to bring in new reputed international carriers - limited few retrenched partly due to bankruptcy, etc. but most are doing very well!

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:45 pm
by RL757PVD
airbazar wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:
If you think BOS has been out there banging on the doors of all of these new airlines and hitting up the airline networking conference circuit, you'd be surprised.

Actually they have. Most of the ground work was set by Gov. Patrick and his administration. Some people here in MA accused him of traveling too much and wasting tax payer money but now we know why. He was out there selling MA and Logan airport to airlines along with Massport and other local executives. The governor never traveled alone.
http://www.bostonherald.com/news_opinio ... d_millions
https://www.breitbart.com/big-governmen ... ish-trips/
Take a close look at where those trips took him. Coincidence?


But thats still not BOS/Massport aka management leading the charge. Under this example, we should be faulting the Governor of NH for MHT woes. I frequent this conference circuit and rarely encounter BOS/Massport folks and that's largely because they don't need to go because the market or Governor have those bases covered for them.

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:13 pm
by airbazar
RL757PVD wrote:
airbazar wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:
If you think BOS has been out there banging on the doors of all of these new airlines and hitting up the airline networking conference circuit, you'd be surprised.

Actually they have. Most of the ground work was set by Gov. Patrick and his administration. Some people here in MA accused him of traveling too much and wasting tax payer money but now we know why. He was out there selling MA and Logan airport to airlines along with Massport and other local executives. The governor never traveled alone.
http://www.bostonherald.com/news_opinio ... d_millions
https://www.breitbart.com/big-governmen ... ish-trips/
Take a close look at where those trips took him. Coincidence?


But thats still not BOS/Massport aka management leading the charge. Under this example, we should be faulting the Governor of NH for MHT woes. I frequent this conference circuit and rarely encounter BOS/Massport folks and that's largely because they don't need to go because the market or Governor have those bases covered for them.

Well no. Who do you think gives the governor the data and talking points? The governor doesn't know where the market potential is. He didn't just wake up one day and though: "hey it would be nice to have a non-stop flight to Hong Kong. Let me go there and see if i can sell them on that." He relies on people who know better to do the research and to tell him where to go sell Massachusetts and that includes Massport's own homework.
But yes, the state and city must also share part of the blame for MHT's demise.

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:18 pm
by pwm2txlhopper
Fex180 wrote:
paysonmt77 wrote:
With these announcements from Frontier, I just can't wait for the PAX numbers to come out at the end of the year. Predictions? A strong winter will propel PWM into historic numbers. If these flights do well for bookings, I would see PBI added for the east coast(In line with ISP and PVD). This should stop some of the flow to BOS(JetBlue) to RSW and TPA. With Tampa and RSW, I am curious to see if Allegiant at BGR and PSM continue to survive as well as elite to srq. Elite is starting flights from PWM to Key West this fall via MLB. This should siphon some traffic away from those flights. Never in my life would I expect RSW, TPA, DEN, from PWM. Another blow to the crippling MHT.


Everything I hear is saying that PWM-DEN is extremely successful, and they've added more flights through August and September.

Curious to see whether Frontiers success at PWM will spur B6 and WN into expansion. They've both been complacent at PWM for years now.



Doubtful, but I'll keep my fingers crossed. You can usually get PWM to Florida cities for about $250 Roundtrip, sometimes less. With Frontier offering $70 one ways to Florida, why would Southwest or JetBlue want to complete when they'd have to match their fares to Florida to those of the ULCC? They're already not making much money on $120 (or less) 1,300 mile one-ways to MCO, TPA, FLL, otherwise they'd have increased seats in the twelve years they've been here.

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:34 pm
by adamh8297
RL757PVD wrote:
airbazar wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:
If you think BOS has been out there banging on the doors of all of these new airlines and hitting up the airline networking conference circuit, you'd be surprised.

Actually they have. Most of the ground work was set by Gov. Patrick and his administration. Some people here in MA accused him of traveling too much and wasting tax payer money but now we know why. He was out there selling MA and Logan airport to airlines along with Massport and other local executives. The governor never traveled alone.
http://www.bostonherald.com/news_opinio ... d_millions
https://www.breitbart.com/big-governmen ... ish-trips/
Take a close look at where those trips took him. Coincidence?


But thats still not BOS/Massport aka management leading the charge. Under this example, we should be faulting the Governor of NH for MHT woes. I frequent this conference circuit and rarely encounter BOS/Massport folks and that's largely because they don't need to go because the market or Governor have those bases covered for them.


Massport definitely led the charge - feel free to google "Yil Surehan" and see what you come up with.

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:28 pm
by RL757PVD
adamh8297 wrote:

Massport definitely led the charge - feel free to google "Yil Surehan" and see what you come up with.


Don't have to google them when you run in the same circles...I am speaking from experience that more often then not, Massport isn't there, because they don't have to be.

Most airports are trying 10x as hard only to get half as much service at BOS.

New management at MHT isn't going to fix the air service issues, end of story. Its going to take a better market and more support from outside the airport itself.

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:49 pm
by Revelation
RL757PVD wrote:
New management at MHT isn't going to fix the air service issues, end of story. Its going to take a better market and more support from outside the airport itself.

Yep. It's just so popular on a.net to slag whomever is running MHT, when the reality is they really can't do much to influence never mind change the negative trend line.

One wonders if they shouldn't just cut the position's salary as a way to accept the relegation.

That in theory means you can't attract a proven manager, but as above, the manager really can't influence things much.

Of course the pols would have to find some sort of face saving way to make it happen.

I guess it's simpler to perpetuate the myth that all that is needed to bring back the glory days is a few tweaks.

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:23 pm
by LotsaRunway
Revelation wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:
New management at MHT isn't going to fix the air service issues, end of story. Its going to take a better market and more support from outside the airport itself.

Yep. It's just so popular on a.net to slag whomever is running MHT, when the reality is they really can't do much to influence never mind change the negative trend line.

One wonders if they shouldn't just cut the position's salary as a way to accept the relegation.

That in theory means you can't attract a proven manager, but as above, the manager really can't influence things much.

Of course the pols would have to find some sort of face saving way to make it happen.

I guess it's simpler to perpetuate the myth that all that is needed to bring back the glory days is a few tweaks.

Maybe I see things a little differently. I would expect management to try to influence the market and bring that information to the airlines. Big pay needs to come with big responsibility and some risk.
Influencing the market includes working with the mayor and governor on ways to get local business to pledge support for key services if the airlines offer it. Maybe it comes with a funding guarantee, or contract from said businesses to support the airline that services a route. Maybe the airport throws in some perks like parking and vouchers for patronizing airport services. Maybe the mayor or governor have a trick up their sleeve to peddle influence with the airline to follow the airport managers recommendation. It's not magic, but it takes somebody with skills and energy to work these deals. Deals happen all the time and a good CEO knows the degree of potential success and then makes it happen. Few leadership jobs come with the expectations that all that needs to be done is to pay the bills and cash the big checks. If such low expectations really come with the job, then I agree you no longer need it.

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:50 pm
by RL757PVD
I know of some airports that struggle because the businesses are publicly traded or have government contracts and are not able to provide financial support.

A.net tends to have blinders on for airports and only thinks in terms of passenger service. In my opinion, MHT has a greater chance of being the #2 cargo airport in New England than remaining the #4 airport for passenger traffic. Lets not also forget that MHT has one of the nicest FBO's in all of New England for corp traffic.

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:13 pm
by LotsaRunway
RL757PVD wrote:
I know of some airports that struggle because the businesses are publicly traded or have government contracts and are not able to provide financial support.

A.net tends to have blinders on for airports and only thinks in terms of passenger service. In my opinion, MHT has a greater chance of being the #2 cargo airport in New England than remaining the #4 airport for passenger traffic. Lets not also forget that MHT has one of the nicest FBO's in all of New England for corp traffic.

I don't know how hard previous MHT management tried to work with the cargo carriers either. My understanding is that LL Bean contracts were done without airport input and the Pratt Whitney distribution center was driven by the host town and their plan to develop near airport acreage. I agree with you that this should be a focus area for new management. They might want to try to lure some traffic from Logan as it gets the squeeze there.

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:39 pm
by tomaheath
RL757PVD wrote:
I know of some airports that struggle because the businesses are publicly traded or have government contracts and are not able to provide financial support.

A.net tends to have blinders on for airports and only thinks in terms of passenger service. In my opinion, MHT has a greater chance of being the #2 cargo airport in New England than remaining the #4 airport for passenger traffic. Lets not also forget that MHT has one of the nicest FBO's in all of New England for corp traffic.

What would make you think that it could be #2 in New England in terms of cargo. I would imagine that new management would be able to stir up some sort of new service.

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:46 pm
by Portlander
Frontier Airlines new service to Tampa and Fort Myers from PWM can't be positive news for Elite Airways, but am happy to see an airline finally become a player in the Maine to Florida market.

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:58 am
by spinkid
Anyone here ever flown with Elite? Their prices aren't exactly the type to stimulate a market. They aren't that well known, and don't seem to advertise all that much, from what I can tell at least. I'm curious how they are able to fill their planes and make money.

What's their strategy?

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:12 am
by Fex180
spinkid wrote:
Anyone here ever flown with Elite? Their prices aren't exactly the type to stimulate a market. They aren't that well known, and don't seem to advertise all that much, from what I can tell at least. I'm curious how they are able to fill their planes and make money.

What's their strategy?


Flew PWM-MLB earlier this year. The experience was decent but nothing remarkable. I'm 27 and I was clearly the youngest person on the flight. They definitely cater to a very different type of traveler than those flying on Frontier.

Elite, for the most part, focuses on attracting wealthier snowbirds and empty nesters.

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:03 pm
by RL757PVD
tomaheath wrote:
What would make you think that it could be #2 in New England in terms of cargo. I would imagine that new management would be able to stir up some sort of new service.


Believe it or not, it would only take just a tiny bit more than doubling MHT's existing level to reach #1 based on 2017 landed weight from the FAA. There is no room for expanded cargo at BOS meaning that future demand will have to go elsewhere. MHT has the runway and the land to do it.

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:47 pm
by lat41
What is the bigger problem for MIT right now? Leakage to BOS or Portland grabbing more and more of the central/upper New England passenger action? Perhaps they are weighted equally.

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:18 pm
by Portlander
May be wrong but I don't think PWM's catchment area goes any further south than the Kennebunk/Sanford area and maybe to Rochester, NH to the west. What MHT lost was the steady leakage from southern Maine prior to JetBlue and Southwest arriving in Portland. PWM's primary strength is now to the north of the city including travelers from the Bangor area. Where Portlanders used to routinely travel 2 hours to BOS (still do for international) and an hour and a half to MHT for Southwest, PWM is now reaping the same benefits from the rest of Maine. Manchester now has to compete with Portsmouth, Worcester and Boston where Portland really only loses business to Boston and not nearly to the same degree as MHT. Location, location, location!

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:32 pm
by pwm2txlhopper
Portlander wrote:
May be wrong but I don't think PWM's catchment area goes any further south than the Kennebunk/Sanford area and maybe to Rochester, NH to the west. What MHT lost was the steady leakage from southern Maine prior to JetBlue and Southwest arriving in Portland. PWM's primary strength is now to the north of the city including travelers from the Bangor area. Where Portlanders used to routinely travel 2 hours to BOS (still do for international) and an hour and a half to MHT for Southwest, PWM is now reaping the same benefits from the rest of Maine. Manchester now has to compete with Portsmouth, Worcester and Boston where Portland really only loses business to Boston and not nearly to the same degree as MHT. Location, location, location!



I’m not sure about that. If you live somwhere like Portsmouth area, you’re about the same distance to BOS as you are to PWM. PWM is a lot easier and quicker to use than BOS. Parking is significantly cheaper, too. Plenty of NH plates coming and going to PWM. Don’t forget places like North Conway, NH. Only a little over an hour drive to PWM.

I don’t even go to BOS for International these days. At least for Europe I can usually fly through JFK with DL, for the same or less than BOS. I’ve only used BOS twice in twelve years since fares went down at PWM on all airlines serving destinations reached by B6 or Southwest

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:45 pm
by pwm2txlhopper
spinkid wrote:
Anyone here ever flown with Elite? Their prices aren't exactly the type to stimulate a market. They aren't that well known, and don't seem to advertise all that much, from what I can tell at least. I'm curious how they are able to fill their planes and make money.

What's their strategy?


They are Portland, Maine based, flying under callsign “Mainer” Their headquarters is downtown Portland and they have a fleet of about 10 CRJ2 and -700’s.

Can’t speak for all their routes, but their PWM to Melbourne and Sarasota have been going well enough the last few years that on some days they add an extra flight. Vero Beach just started this summer.

They are going after the local nicht market of travelers who want non-stops to smaller Florida cities where they often have property, and desire a quick link without connections from Maine. Using RJ’s they have a lot less seats to fill than a 737 or A320.

They aren’t super expensive. Round trips PWM to Florida have been about $400 when I’ve checked then out and you get a free bag with that, too.

They’ve also tried ISP-PWM-BHB and PWM-MBS-APF. I think they have some flights out of EWR at the moment?

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:11 pm
by Fex180
AA is adding a 3rd daily PWM-CLT starting in Nov.

Looks like a typical day is 1x A320 and 2x CRJ9

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:16 pm
by LotsaRunway
Article in the Manchester Union Leader today talks about MHT's numbers this year. According to the article, numbers have been up all year until June, when a surge in weather and ATC related cancellations kicked in (plus WN ran two fewer flights than the year before). The article cited that 70 flights were cancelled during June, 20 of which were WN. In order for cancellations to drive numbers down by 10%, a good portion of those travelers would have to not be accommodated on another MHT flight. True, some will chose to forgo a trip, but unless weather is really bad or a business traveler is missing a deadline, it's my observation that most want to be accommodated as quickly as possible. All said, MHT experienced an average of 1 departure cancellation per day, which is quite a bit for an airport that only averaged around 35 departures a day. High cancellation rates have continued through July and into August as something seems to be cancelled every day and more during thunderstorm weather in hub country.

MHT's June 2018 to 2017 passenger numbers are down 9.9% overall so that's quite a bit to blame on cancelled flights. WN's scheduled flights were down 14% (14 to 12) and actual passengers carried was down by about 16%. Factoring some loss from cancelled flights, this seems about right. Since WN is over 50% of airport capacity, it appears that it's really the WN schedule cut that did most of the damage to MHT's. DL also carries scheduled capacity cut blame, resulting in about 12% passengers. DL has dropped some flights to LGA and ran less mainline to DTW. AA passengers carried are actually up 3%, despite a flurry of Piedmont cancellations. UA probably has the highest cancellation rate at MHT and is down in passengers by about 4%. UA actually scheduled more flights in June 2018 than 2017, but may have run fewer once all the cancellations were factored in.

http://www.unionleader.com/business/manchester-airport-reverses-12-straight-years-of-passenger-declines-20180813

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:42 pm
by Portlander
Surprising, because MHT's unofficial slogan is "never surrendering to bad weather" with it's 9250 ft runway. I can understand PWM having more weather/fog issues and cancellations with it's shorter runway and coastal location.

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN) - 2018

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:12 pm
by tomaheath
I don’t think you can blame just bad weather in Manchester it’s been the whole east coast for the past month it seems.
Link to article.
http://www.unionleader.com/business/man ... s-20180813