AirbusMDCFAN
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United's 757-300s to go to 234 seats

Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:50 am

Link/Source: https://www.inc.com/chris-matyszczyk/un ... ngers.html


"United Airlines just revealed that it's shoving another, well, 21 seats into its Boeing 757-300 planes."
"Yes, there'll now be 234 seats on a single-aisled plane, 210 of them in Economy."
"As FlightGlobal reports, the idea is to equip these planes with new, slimmer seats."
"This will, of course, leave the airline claiming that passengers have the same amount of space as before."


and of course the age old battle for overhead bin space
 
parapente
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Re: United's 757-300s to go to 234 seats

Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:53 am

Slimline seats are now a fact of life .As one of the articles states if a seat back is thinner (say by 1 inch) then in theory you can reduce the pitch by the same amount with no change in leg room.The latest Boeing and Airbus designs (not an old 757) have increased the size of overhead bins to compensate for extra pax carried.
No one likes it but it's now a fact of life.If Boeing introduced some snazzy 797 they would not return to old seats and generous pitches sadly.
I note the some A321's (a smaller aircraft) now can have 240 seats!Thats not sardines it's whitebait!
 
oldannyboy
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Re: United's 757-300s to go to 234 seats

Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:32 am

Well, sad, but it's an inevitable sign of the times we live in.
On a side -compensatory- note, I have flown a few times on a 265-seat configured 753, and the flights were still good, with decent legroom. I suppose it depends not only on the type of seats, but also on the % of estate the galleys and toilets take up...
Sadly for UA passengers though, service still matters more than seat pitch.....
 
JustSomeDood
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Re: United's 757-300s to go to 234 seats

Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:55 am

Proliferation of slim-line seats + longer range narrowbodies are gonna put serious pressure on widebody sales in the next decade or so. It's easier to manage yields brought on by the extra ~20 seats this puts on an A321 sized plane than the extra ~35 seats an A350 might gain. Putting up with the weight and operating inefficiencies of a WB would be less tenable as NBs cover more of an Airline's route map. God forbid some OEM starts making a TPAC-capable narrowbody airliner...
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: United's 757-300s to go to 234 seats

Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:24 pm

The 753 have crap interiors today so new seats will be at least some improvement.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: United's 757-300s to go to 234 seats

Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:38 pm

DL's B753s are already 234 seats with the same F-Y+-Y that UA wants. I wonder if UA will just copy the DL seat map. Any UA aircraft that isn't getting Polaris (other than the 757 p.s. subfleet) will be 30" in economy with slimline seats.

That said, when UA ordered A319s and A320, did the presence of the 757 preclude an A321 order?
 
cledaybuck
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Re: United's 757-300s to go to 234 seats

Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:47 pm

oldannyboy wrote:
Sadly for UA passengers though, service still matters more than seat pitch.....
I mostly disagree with this.
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
Rdh3e
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Re: United's 757-300s to go to 234 seats

Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:16 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
That said, when UA ordered A319s and A320, did the presence of the 757 preclude an A321 order?

The early 321's that would have been available when UA ordered the other two were dogs and not particularly desirable aircraft. Significant improvements have occurred to make that airplane into the attractive proposition that it is today.
 
catiii
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Re: United's 757-300s to go to 234 seats

Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:36 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
DL's B753s are already 234 seats with the same F-Y+-Y that UA wants. I wonder if UA will just copy the DL seat map. Any UA aircraft that isn't getting Polaris (other than the 757 p.s. subfleet) will be 30" in economy with slimline seats.

That said, when UA ordered A319s and A320, did the presence of the 757 preclude an A321 order?


Thank. You.

Fact of life on A.Net is that anything UA does is bad.

On the topic at hand, if there is no pitch change than what's the big deal? Drives CASM down, which is good for customers, employees and shareholders.
 
oldannyboy
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Re: United's 757-300s to go to 234 seats

Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:42 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
Sadly for UA passengers though, service still matters more than seat pitch.....
I mostly disagree with this.


I honestly do not think that UA is half as bad as people love to describe it. It's heaps better than US or NW ever were, although worse than what CO was. It's just that -I think- DL and AA are largely *consistently* better, although not by a very great margin....

Going back to the 753, if seat pitch remains the same, the experience will not be any worse. I still love flying on a '57, even a cramped one!
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: United's 757-300s to go to 234 seats

Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:56 pm

I am wondering why it took this long since the planes can fit more seats, especially with slimline seats and the new narrower lavatories.

The 757-300s still have the full size galley at door 2. This is from back when they were doing full hot meal services. There's no need for it given how large the galley is at door 1 and the aft galley. There's also a closet in economy on the 757. UA doesn't have closets for economy on its domestic narrowbodies any more. And although most people don't know, the majority of the seats behind the exit rows are actually at 32 inch pitch. Seatguru may say 31, but most rows are 32 behind the exit windows.

AirbusMDCFAN wrote:
and of course the age old battle for overhead bin space


Basic economy has eased the battle for bin space. Since boarding group 5 can't carry bags on that go in the overheads, the battle is much less than it use to be. Plenty of flights leave with bin space leftover now.
 
N766UA
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Re: United's 757-300s to go to 234 seats

Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:09 pm

SFOtoORD wrote:
The 753 have crap interiors today so new seats will be at least some improvement.


I flew a 753 transcon last year in regular coach and thought it was one of the better experiences I’ve had in a long time. The old cloth CO seats are some of the best out there. Real shame they’re going to the hard new “leather” ones.
 
United1
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Re: United's 757-300s to go to 234 seats

Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:24 pm

Rdh3e wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
That said, when UA ordered A319s and A320, did the presence of the 757 preclude an A321 order?

The early 321's that would have been available when UA ordered the other two were dogs and not particularly desirable aircraft. Significant improvements have occurred to make that airplane into the attractive proposition that it is today.


The short answer is yes the 752s would have precluded a 321 order at that time. The 752s (all 98 of them) still had plenty of life left and the 320/319s were replacing 722s and 732s which were at the end of their life span.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: United's 757-300s to go to 234 seats

Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:55 pm

parapente wrote:
Slimline seats are now a fact of life .As one of the articles states if a seat back is thinner (say by 1 inch) then in theory you can reduce the pitch by the same amount with no change in leg room.The latest Boeing and Airbus designs (not an old 757) have increased the size of overhead bins to compensate for extra pax carried.
No one likes it but it's now a fact of life.If Boeing introduced some snazzy 797 they would not return to old seats and generous pitches sadly.
I note the some A321's (a smaller aircraft) now can have 240 seats!Thats not sardines it's whitebait!


I don't mind slimline seats, but I hate the way airlines that have gone to them take away padding from the seat bottoms.

Lufthansa's A380 seat bottom is just about as hard as their slimline A320 and A321 seats. This is absolutely unnecessary in order to provide more space for seating. The accounts must love the weight savings they allow. I had back surgery on a disc almost 17 years ago. I need more padding on the seat bottom especially on flights longer than 2 hours or when there is turbulence.
 
michman
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Re: United's 757-300s to go to 234 seats

Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:07 pm

catiii wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
DL's B753s are already 234 seats with the same F-Y+-Y that UA wants. I wonder if UA will just copy the DL seat map. Any UA aircraft that isn't getting Polaris (other than the 757 p.s. subfleet) will be 30" in economy with slimline seats.

That said, when UA ordered A319s and A320, did the presence of the 757 preclude an A321 order?


Thank. You.

Fact of life on A.Net is that anything UA does is bad.

On the topic at hand, if there is no pitch change than what's the big deal? Drives CASM down, which is good for customers, employees and shareholders.


The seat pitch changes (31" to 30"), but the leg room (which is what most passengers actually care about) basically remains the same due to the slimmer seat-backs.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: United's 757-300s to go to 234 seats

Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:11 pm

This news is about 2 months old and covered in the UA fleet thread at the time.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Flighty
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Re: United's 757-300s to go to 234 seats

Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:42 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
parapente wrote:
Slimline seats are now a fact of life .As one of the articles states if a seat back is thinner (say by 1 inch) then in theory you can reduce the pitch by the same amount with no change in leg room.The latest Boeing and Airbus designs (not an old 757) have increased the size of overhead bins to compensate for extra pax carried.
No one likes it but it's now a fact of life.If Boeing introduced some snazzy 797 they would not return to old seats and generous pitches sadly.
I note the some A321's (a smaller aircraft) now can have 240 seats!Thats not sardines it's whitebait!


I don't mind slimline seats, but I hate the way airlines that have gone to them take away padding from the seat bottoms.

Lufthansa's A380 seat bottom is just about as hard as their slimline A320 and A321 seats. This is absolutely unnecessary in order to provide more space for seating. The accounts must love the weight savings they allow. I had back surgery on a disc almost 17 years ago. I need more padding on the seat bottom especially on flights longer than 2 hours or when there is turbulence.


This is an excellent point...
 
mzlin
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Re: United's 757-300s to go to 234 seats

Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:54 pm

Flighty wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
parapente wrote:
Slimline seats are now a fact of life .As one of the articles states if a seat back is thinner (say by 1 inch) then in theory you can reduce the pitch by the same amount with no change in leg room.The latest Boeing and Airbus designs (not an old 757) have increased the size of overhead bins to compensate for extra pax carried.
No one likes it but it's now a fact of life.If Boeing introduced some snazzy 797 they would not return to old seats and generous pitches sadly.
I note the some A321's (a smaller aircraft) now can have 240 seats!Thats not sardines it's whitebait!


I don't mind slimline seats, but I hate the way airlines that have gone to them take away padding from the seat bottoms.

Lufthansa's A380 seat bottom is just about as hard as their slimline A320 and A321 seats. This is absolutely unnecessary in order to provide more space for seating. The accounts must love the weight savings they allow. I had back surgery on a disc almost 17 years ago. I need more padding on the seat bottom especially on flights longer than 2 hours or when there is turbulence.


This is an excellent point...


It certainly got to the bottom of the matter.
 
MatthewDB
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Re: United's 757-300s to go to 234 seats

Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:20 pm

catiii wrote:
Fact of life on A.Net is that anything UA does is bad.


Where do you think that attitude comes from? UA earned my disdain. I'm never flying them again. Ever. My employer doesn't pay for J anymore, but does cover W so the impact is lessened, but I'm still a good profit customer.
 
codc10
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Re: United's 757-300s to go to 234 seats

Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:37 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
DL's B753s are already 234 seats with the same F-Y+-Y that UA wants. I wonder if UA will just copy the DL seat map. Any UA aircraft that isn't getting Polaris (other than the 757 p.s. subfleet) will be 30" in economy with slimline seats.

That said, when UA ordered A319s and A320, did the presence of the 757 preclude an A321 order?


The negative attention UA is getting over this configuration just underscores how poorly the brand is perceived by the public as opposed to Delta. First, details about the configuration have been (mostly) public since the fall, even though it hadn't been picked up by the prominent bloggers until recently. Second, Delta has been flying virtually the same configuration on its 757-300 for nearly two years, and doesn't attract nearly the same degree of public disdain.

United still has a major uphill PR battle
 
parapente
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Re: United's 757-300s to go to 234 seats

Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:46 pm

'Getting to the bottom of the matter'!
Could not agree more.Did a shorthaul flight recently (EasyJet -brand new aircraft -week old).
I too don't mind the back of the chair.In fact it keeps my spine straight.
But my ass!Ok I am getting old no doubt about it.But got me wiggling around with numb bum.
As stated above there can be no obvious reason that they remove the seat padding (can't even weigh that much).
Stupid.
 
SamThomas
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Re: United's 757-300s to go to 234 seats

Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:32 pm

I flew the UA 753 from ORD to SFO this summer and thought it was a cramped and ugly mess. Granted, I am 6ft 5in so there are not too many airline seats that are comfortable for me. The interiors of those aircraft need an update so badly so the new seats should help but I think it will be a disaster for costumer experience. It took them almost 45 minutes to board in Chicago and I can imagine what will happen now that they are putting more people in the aircraft. And most of these aircraft are flying 4-8 hour flights so It would be nice if they included a USB port or outlet with the new seats now that the entertainment screens are gone.
 
Rdh3e
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Re: United's 757-300s to go to 234 seats

Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:38 pm

parapente wrote:
As stated above there can be no obvious reason that they remove the seat padding (can't even weigh that much).
Stupid.

It's not usually a removal of any padding, it's just a harder foam that is supposed to soften over time and have a longer service life. At least that is the way it was explained to me.
 
WA707atMSP
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Re: United's 757-300s to go to 234 seats

Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:04 pm

codc10 wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
DL's B753s are already 234 seats with the same F-Y+-Y that UA wants. I wonder if UA will just copy the DL seat map. Any UA aircraft that isn't getting Polaris (other than the 757 p.s. subfleet) will be 30" in economy with slimline seats.

That said, when UA ordered A319s and A320, did the presence of the 757 preclude an A321 order?


The negative attention UA is getting over this configuration just underscores how poorly the brand is perceived by the public as opposed to Delta. First, details about the configuration have been (mostly) public since the fall, even though it hadn't been picked up by the prominent bloggers until recently. Second, Delta has been flying virtually the same configuration on its 757-300 for nearly two years, and doesn't attract nearly the same degree of public disdain.

United still has a major uphill PR battle


Right now, there's a perception that DL is perfect and can do no wrong, and UA is horrible and can do nothing right. AA is somewhere in the middle.

Had there been an ANet post about Delta reducing seat pitch, it would have been largely ignored, because of the "halo of perfection" around Delta.

UA's image has been declining for about 35 years, since Eddie Carlson retired and Richard Ferris took over, I hope United can restore the reputation for outstanding service they had during the "Friendly Skies" days, but it's not going to be easy to undo the damage from past managements' mistakes.
 
speedbird52
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Re: United's 757-300s to go to 234 seats

Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:09 am

catiii wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
DL's B753s are already 234 seats with the same F-Y+-Y that UA wants. I wonder if UA will just copy the DL seat map. Any UA aircraft that isn't getting Polaris (other than the 757 p.s. subfleet) will be 30" in economy with slimline seats.

That said, when UA ordered A319s and A320, did the presence of the 757 preclude an A321 order?


Thank. You.

Fact of life on A.Net is that anything UA does is bad.

On the topic at hand, if there is no pitch change than what's the big deal? Drives CASM down, which is good for customers, employees and shareholders.

In January I had two flights: One in a Eurowings A320 and one in a Qesh Air Fokker 100. The Fokker 100 was by far more comfortable not just because of the generous seat pitch but because of the 80s style padded seats.
 
jetero
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Re: United's 757-300s to go to 234 seats

Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:09 am

speedbird52 wrote:
catiii wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
DL's B753s are already 234 seats with the same F-Y+-Y that UA wants. I wonder if UA will just copy the DL seat map. Any UA aircraft that isn't getting Polaris (other than the 757 p.s. subfleet) will be 30" in economy with slimline seats.

That said, when UA ordered A319s and A320, did the presence of the 757 preclude an A321 order?


Thank. You.

Fact of life on A.Net is that anything UA does is bad.

On the topic at hand, if there is no pitch change than what's the big deal? Drives CASM down, which is good for customers, employees and shareholders.

In January I had two flights: One in a Eurowings A320 and one in a Qesh Air Fokker 100. The Fokker 100 was by far more comfortable not just because of the generous seat pitch but because of the 80s style padded seats.


As a proud American I have to sanction that message.
 
speedbird52
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Re: United's 757-300s to go to 234 seats

Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:38 am

jetero wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
catiii wrote:

Thank. You.

Fact of life on A.Net is that anything UA does is bad.

On the topic at hand, if there is no pitch change than what's the big deal? Drives CASM down, which is good for customers, employees and shareholders.

In January I had two flights: One in a Eurowings A320 and one in a Qesh Air Fokker 100. The Fokker 100 was by far more comfortable not just because of the generous seat pitch but because of the 80s style padded seats.


As a proud American I have to sanction that message.

Dangit! Foiled again. At least I didn't choose to fly via Vancouver instead of Seattle during this trip, else I would have been triple sanctioned!
 
bayareablue
Posts: 73
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Re: United's 757-300s to go to 234 seats

Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:03 am

Rdh3e wrote:
It's not usually a removal of any padding, it's just a harder foam that is supposed to soften over time and have a longer service life. At least that is the way it was explained to me.

That is partially it but it is more that harder foams pass the various dynamic tests required for seat certification compared to softer foams, funny as that sounds. Seat design and certification is tricky business!
Blue
 
jetero
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Re: United's 757-300s to go to 234 seats

Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:03 am

speedbird52 wrote:
jetero wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
In January I had two flights: One in a Eurowings A320 and one in a Qesh Air Fokker 100. The Fokker 100 was by far more comfortable not just because of the generous seat pitch but because of the 80s style padded seats.


As a proud American I have to sanction that message.

Dangit! Foiled again. At least I didn't choose to fly via Vancouver instead of Seattle during this trip, else I would have been triple sanctioned!


Per the small print of my passport I think it says you’re borderline OK as long as you didn’t connect in Havana and didn’t take more than 2L of rum and 5 sticks of beef jerky, and, most importantly, recognize Taiwan as the real China.
 
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LTU330
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Re: United's 757-300s to go to 234 seats

Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:54 am

I recently flew on a couple of Condor 753s. I was in their Premium Economy, and they didnt even have seat recline on the seats. They looked like a newish Recaro seat with the shorter narrow armrests. Its a race to the bottom now on every airline. At least with a Low cost or Holiday airline you half expect it.
 
speedbird52
Posts: 987
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 5:30 am

Re: United's 757-300s to go to 234 seats

Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:16 am

jetero wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
jetero wrote:

As a proud American I have to sanction that message.

Dangit! Foiled again. At least I didn't choose to fly via Vancouver instead of Seattle during this trip, else I would have been triple sanctioned!


Per the small print of my passport I think it says you’re borderline OK as long as you didn’t connect in Havana and didn’t take more than 2L of rum and 5 sticks of beef jerky, and, most importantly, recognize Taiwan as the real China.

Uh oh....

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