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TWA302
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:39 pm

stl07 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Decent watch/read.

KMOV talked to a airline consultant about WOW/STL.

https://www.kmov.com/news/wow-air-pulli ... a06ef.html

"since we broke the news"
Correction: since A.net broke the news
news 4 didn't know about this until another whole day after the OAG thread and two days since Jshank spoke up here because it wasn't on his twitter until yesterday (when they saw it). Sorry that just bothered me.


You expect anything less from the news? Surprised they didn't use stock roll video with a TWA L-1011. :stirthepot: The thing that ticks me off about this whole this is they told the airport on 9/5, "WOW Air is really happy with the St. Louis route this summer." and then they release that statement and doing a 180 saying, "St Louis was a disappointment for WOW air this summer." Who does this??? And I also wonder, since they were credited $118k in landing fees, WHEN the airport will get that back, if ever.

I wouldn't go to Vegas and bank on another airline, but I WOULD bank on WW going tits up very soon.
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:38 pm

O&D numbers for 2 Qtr 2018 are out.

Overall it was up 4%

The nonstop to SMF started and it jumped from 84 to 112 YOY (33% jump).
ORF jumped JAX. (up 17%). It is starting to get into where BDL was numbers wise when it was added.
CVG had a 50% jump. Lower fares this year seem to be helping.


Biggest jumps by raw numbers were
SAN 58
Houston 53
Miami 44
DC 41
DEN 33

Biggest loser by raw numbers:
LA -30
PHX -17
Dallas -15
NYC -11
Chicago -11

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
 
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stl07
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:44 am

TWA302 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Decent watch/read.

KMOV talked to a airline consultant about WOW/STL.

https://www.kmov.com/news/wow-air-pulli ... a06ef.html

"since we broke the news"
Correction: since A.net broke the news
news 4 didn't know about this until another whole day after the OAG thread and two days since Jshank spoke up here because it wasn't on his twitter until yesterday (when they saw it). Sorry that just bothered me.


You expect anything less from the news? Surprised they didn't use stock roll video with a TWA L-1011. :stirthepot: The thing that ticks me off about this whole this is they told the airport on 9/5, "WOW Air is really happy with the St. Louis route this summer." and then they release that statement and doing a 180 saying, "St Louis was a disappointment for WOW air this summer." Who does this??? And I also wonder, since they were credited $118k in landing fees, WHEN the airport will get that back, if ever.

I wouldn't go to Vegas and bank on another airline, but I WOULD bank on WW going tits up very soon.

You know what, at least the media actually took the time to find out that STL wasn't the problem unlike some other networks in other cities who only reported that the flight didn't meet WW's expectations
 
N383SW
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:10 pm

stl07 wrote:
TWA302 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
"since we broke the news"
Correction: since A.net broke the news
news 4 didn't know about this until another whole day after the OAG thread and two days since Jshank spoke up here because it wasn't on his twitter until yesterday (when they saw it). Sorry that just bothered me.


You expect anything less from the news? Surprised they didn't use stock roll video with a TWA L-1011. :stirthepot: The thing that ticks me off about this whole this is they told the airport on 9/5, "WOW Air is really happy with the St. Louis route this summer." and then they release that statement and doing a 180 saying, "St Louis was a disappointment for WOW air this summer." Who does this??? And I also wonder, since they were credited $118k in landing fees, WHEN the airport will get that back, if ever.

I wouldn't go to Vegas and bank on another airline, but I WOULD bank on WW going tits up very soon.

You know what, at least the media actually took the time to find out that STL wasn't the problem unlike some other networks in other cities who only reported that the flight didn't meet WW's expectations


I get the gut feeling that WW called STL a disappointment because they were called out by STL (airport, media, etc). Something just seems afoot with this entire situation.
 
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TWA302
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:25 pm

N383SW wrote:
stl07 wrote:
TWA302 wrote:

You expect anything less from the news? Surprised they didn't use stock roll video with a TWA L-1011. :stirthepot: The thing that ticks me off about this whole this is they told the airport on 9/5, "WOW Air is really happy with the St. Louis route this summer." and then they release that statement and doing a 180 saying, "St Louis was a disappointment for WOW air this summer." Who does this??? And I also wonder, since they were credited $118k in landing fees, WHEN the airport will get that back, if ever.

I wouldn't go to Vegas and bank on another airline, but I WOULD bank on WW going tits up very soon.

You know what, at least the media actually took the time to find out that STL wasn't the problem unlike some other networks in other cities who only reported that the flight didn't meet WW's expectations


I get the gut feeling that WW called STL a disappointment because they were called out by STL (airport, media, etc). Something just seems afoot with this entire situation.


I am pretty sure that WW had zero idea that KMOV had the 5-Sept email when they released their "claim" and then probably choked on their Hákarl when they realized they just screwed up. Also find it interesting that they had been dark on social media since the STL announcement. They're back though. :banghead:
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:50 pm

https://www.postandcourier.com/business ... a444b.html

Absolute slap in the face to STL, that CHS was chosen before STL. The route development team in STL needs a shakeup, now!
DL DM, AA Gold in 2018, Visited 2018:AMS, ATL, AUS, BOS, BWI, CDG, CLT, CMN, DCA, DFW, DTW, DXB, EWR, FLL, FRA, HAV, HPN, JFK, JNB, IAD, IAH, IND, LAX, LGA, LHR, LOS, MAD, MCO, MIA, MSP, ORD, PBI, PHL, PVD, SAN, SEA, SJD, SLC, SFO, STL, TPA, TXL, YYZ, ZRH
 
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TWA302
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:56 pm

It is going to be interesting the financial details on this one. This is like CHS just won the Powerball jackpot.
Last edited by TWA302 on Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:57 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
https://www.postandcourier.com/business/charleston-airport-to-launch-nonstop-flights-to-london/article_4edaa636-c009-11e8-b80c-27f9947a444b.html

Absolute slap in the face to STL, that CHS was chosen before STL. The route development team in STL needs a shakeup, now!


Surprise to me, but I am sure it is to everyone. An airport that doesn't have any flights west of Denver gets a BA flight. I mean PIT has 3 and doesn't have great west coast service. At this point I am not surprised by anything though. I have been pretty against the privitization push because the route development team has done a really really good job rounding out our domestic map, but maybe it is time for a change. If something is holding them back from getting a Europe flight it would be nice to know what it is. If it is incentive money not available that is one thing, but I am seeing other airports get seasonal service for not a ton of incentive money.

At this point I am not mad though, just makes me laugh.

EDIT: I see they do have a flight to SEA but my main point stands.
 
stlgph
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:03 pm

For St. Louis, a twice weekly 787 April - October service does nothing more than put a 787 on the ground twice a week for a few months a year.

Said it once and I'll say it again, the best bet right now is to chase a daily Aer Lingus 321LR.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
777PHX
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:08 pm

TWA302 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
https://www.postandcourier.com/business/charleston-airport-to-launch-nonstop-flights-to-london/article_4edaa636-c009-11e8-b80c-27f9947a444b.html

Absolute slap in the face to STL, that CHS was chosen before STL. The route development team in STL needs a shakeup, now![/quote

It is going to be interesting the financial details on this one. This is like CHS just won the Powerball jackpot.


Just in case anyone still wants to argue that financial incentives aren't controlling which of these cities is getting a flight.....

Jshank83 wrote:
An airport that doesn't have any flights west of Denver gets a BA flight.


An airport that also doesn't have a single regularly scheduled international flight, not even to Canada or Mexico.

At this point, all you can do is laugh because it's simply ridiculous.
 
maps4ltd
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:09 pm

I think Aer Lingus is a good possibility. Just bring 'em over where the WW 321 was. (Well...is, I guess.)

Properly incentivized, it could be a real winner.
 
STLflyer
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:44 pm

WOW cut DFW and JFK today as well. Maybe STL wasn't the problem........

But WTF on the BA CHS flight. Is there a massive company based in Charleston with huge ties to London? I just can't figure that one out at all.
 
Bigant0408
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:51 pm

STLflyer wrote:
WOW cut DFW and JFK today as well. Maybe STL wasn't the problem........

But WTF on the BA CHS flight. Is there a massive company based in Charleston with huge ties to London? I just can't figure that one out at all.


Boeing is located in Charleston and I heard that BMW and other foreign car companies are located near Charleston area as well.
The man who sleeps on the floor doesn’t fall out of bed
 
Sctvman
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:53 pm

Yep. Volvo has a major auto plant being built in the Charleston suburbs and the Boeing 787 plant is there as well.
 
maps4ltd
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:56 pm

CHS hurts. There are people over on that thread speculating about LHR-EGE flights now...

The kicker is that STL has 4 times the population of CHS. We may not have Hilton or Myrtle, but how many Brits go there anyway?
 
GSP psgr
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:06 pm

BA might not have had enough aircraft availability left to do anything more than a twice weekly service, a model which wouldn't fit a market like STL very well. STL would need at least 4 weekly flights like PIT got to make a serious go of it. The CHS flights might be the last open 787 time BA has after announcing Durban, Osaka, and Pittsburgh as new longhaul routes (on the other hand, AA has A LOT of 787 time on their hands, and with the JV could start the route; that said aside from RDU, AA doesn't do non-hub LHR flying).
 
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TWA302
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:29 pm

Hard to find hard facts on the total number of European visitors to STL each year, but the Post, back in 2013 reported this "About 87,000 travelers from those countries (Canada, Europe, Mexico) visited the area in 2013, according to the St. Louis Convention & Visitors Commission"

https://www.stltoday.com/business/local/st-louis-boosts-effort-to-lure-foreign-tourists/article_1ab327be-09e1-5036-b902-679f4310dd5a.html

As a GUESS, I would say the majority of those are Canadians followed by Europeans. Let's say 25% of the 87k are Europeans, that equates to 21k (surely more than that after 5 years) that works out to about 437 per week. Throw in the mix of STL residents headed over the pond daily/weekly, I can't rationalize this CHS thing. It is what it is and BA is more of an expert on this than all of combined, so guess there is something that stinks about us. Probably the $ was the factor, as in most cases.
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:48 pm

TWA302 wrote:
Hard to find hard facts on the total number of European visitors to STL each year, but the Post, back in 2013 reported this "About 87,000 travelers from those countries (Canada, Europe, Mexico) visited the area in 2013, according to the St. Louis Convention & Visitors Commission"

https://www.stltoday.com/business/local/st-louis-boosts-effort-to-lure-foreign-tourists/article_1ab327be-09e1-5036-b902-679f4310dd5a.html

As a GUESS, I would say the majority of those are Canadians followed by Europeans. Let's say 25% of the 87k are Europeans, that equates to 21k (surely more than that after 5 years) that works out to about 437 per week. Throw in the mix of STL residents headed over the pond daily/weekly, I can't rationalize this CHS thing. It is what it is and BA is more of an expert on this than all of combined, so guess there is something that stinks about us. Probably the $ was the factor, as in most cases.


STL has about 300-400 a day on average that go to Europe. (this would include everyone locals and tourists that had come here). Like others mentioned, it would make sense that BA only had a plane available for 2x a week and wanted a more leisure destination with that availability. It wouldn't make sense to skip over all the other markets (not just us) most would put ahead of CHS, unless if that was the case. Good for CHS to be the one they chose for it.
 
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TWA302
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:58 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
TWA302 wrote:
Hard to find hard facts on the total number of European visitors to STL each year, but the Post, back in 2013 reported this "About 87,000 travelers from those countries (Canada, Europe, Mexico) visited the area in 2013, according to the St. Louis Convention & Visitors Commission"

https://www.stltoday.com/business/local/st-louis-boosts-effort-to-lure-foreign-tourists/article_1ab327be-09e1-5036-b902-679f4310dd5a.html

As a GUESS, I would say the majority of those are Canadians followed by Europeans. Let's say 25% of the 87k are Europeans, that equates to 21k (surely more than that after 5 years) that works out to about 437 per week. Throw in the mix of STL residents headed over the pond daily/weekly, I can't rationalize this CHS thing. It is what it is and BA is more of an expert on this than all of combined, so guess there is something that stinks about us. Probably the $ was the factor, as in most cases.


STL has about 300-400 a day on average that go to Europe. (this would include everyone locals and tourists that had come here). Like others mentioned, it would make sense that BA only had a plane available for 2x a week and wanted a more leisure destination with that availability. It wouldn't make sense to skip over all the other markets (not just us) most would put ahead of CHS, unless if that was the case. Good for CHS to be the one they chose for it.


That 300-400 numbers is total daily pax to all international destinations, not just Europe "Hamm-Niebruegge says Lambert is still looking for non-stop European destinations - roughly 300 people leave St. Louis for international destinations daily."
https://kmox.radio.com/articles/international-discount-airline-ending-short-run-st-louis
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:05 pm

TWA302 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
TWA302 wrote:
Hard to find hard facts on the total number of European visitors to STL each year, but the Post, back in 2013 reported this "About 87,000 travelers from those countries (Canada, Europe, Mexico) visited the area in 2013, according to the St. Louis Convention & Visitors Commission"

https://www.stltoday.com/business/local/st-louis-boosts-effort-to-lure-foreign-tourists/article_1ab327be-09e1-5036-b902-679f4310dd5a.html

As a GUESS, I would say the majority of those are Canadians followed by Europeans. Let's say 25% of the 87k are Europeans, that equates to 21k (surely more than that after 5 years) that works out to about 437 per week. Throw in the mix of STL residents headed over the pond daily/weekly, I can't rationalize this CHS thing. It is what it is and BA is more of an expert on this than all of combined, so guess there is something that stinks about us. Probably the $ was the factor, as in most cases.


STL has about 300-400 a day on average that go to Europe. (this would include everyone locals and tourists that had come here). Like others mentioned, it would make sense that BA only had a plane available for 2x a week and wanted a more leisure destination with that availability. It wouldn't make sense to skip over all the other markets (not just us) most would put ahead of CHS, unless if that was the case. Good for CHS to be the one they chose for it.


That 300-400 numbers is total daily pax to all international destinations, not just Europe "Hamm-Niebruegge says Lambert is still looking for non-stop European destinations - roughly 300 people leave St. Louis for international destinations daily."
https://kmox.radio.com/articles/international-discount-airline-ending-short-run-st-louis


I am pretty sure that is either a misquote or she said it wrong. Air Canada to YYZ and Frontier to CUN are 300 by themselves. She meant Europe. I have seen that quoted as the Europe number before.
 
STLflyer
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:45 pm

TWA302 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
TWA302 wrote:
Hard to find hard facts on the total number of European visitors to STL each year, but the Post, back in 2013 reported this "About 87,000 travelers from those countries (Canada, Europe, Mexico) visited the area in 2013, according to the St. Louis Convention & Visitors Commission"

https://www.stltoday.com/business/local/st-louis-boosts-effort-to-lure-foreign-tourists/article_1ab327be-09e1-5036-b902-679f4310dd5a.html

As a GUESS, I would say the majority of those are Canadians followed by Europeans. Let's say 25% of the 87k are Europeans, that equates to 21k (surely more than that after 5 years) that works out to about 437 per week. Throw in the mix of STL residents headed over the pond daily/weekly, I can't rationalize this CHS thing. It is what it is and BA is more of an expert on this than all of combined, so guess there is something that stinks about us. Probably the $ was the factor, as in most cases.


STL has about 300-400 a day on average that go to Europe. (this would include everyone locals and tourists that had come here). Like others mentioned, it would make sense that BA only had a plane available for 2x a week and wanted a more leisure destination with that availability. It wouldn't make sense to skip over all the other markets (not just us) most would put ahead of CHS, unless if that was the case. Good for CHS to be the one they chose for it.


That 300-400 numbers is total daily pax to all international destinations, not just Europe "Hamm-Niebruegge says Lambert is still looking for non-stop European destinations - roughly 300 people leave St. Louis for international destinations daily."
https://kmox.radio.com/articles/international-discount-airline-ending-short-run-st-louis


Frontier's 1x A321 to CUN and Air Canada's 3x CRJ-200 to YYZ are 380 seats alone. Safe to assume they're mostly full otherwise they wouldn't keep operating them. Then Southwest adds to it with their weekly CUN flight (which is tougher to guesstimate because of connections) and whatever the charters bring in.

300-400 for Europe alone makes a bit more sense. I would also love to see daily numbers rather than averages. I'm sure Saturday sees a much higher number (most people don't leave for vacation on a Wednesday), so I don't see how we couldn't support a 787 on a Saturday and maybe another 2 or 3 days a week.
 
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stl07
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:49 pm

2ish million for twice-weekly seasonal!

There is a reason we don't have service. Rhonda has a brain. There is no economic payoff in that. It's better we sit without one than try to outbid that
 
klm617
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:11 am

There really is nothing to get upset about the BA twice a week LHR-CHS flight it equates to nothing more than a twice a week four month summer charter flight nothing more nothing less. Who knows if it even comes back in 2020.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
N983AN
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:30 am

klm617 wrote:
There really is nothing to get upset about the BA twice a week LHR-CHS flight it equates to nothing more than a twice a week four month summer charter flight nothing more nothing less. Who knows if it even comes back in 2020.



Lol!

If STL got this the narrative would be “BA is making an ambitious bet on Missouri, the service will prove itself like AUS & BNA and will be expanded”
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:13 am

N983AN wrote:
klm617 wrote:
There really is nothing to get upset about the BA twice a week LHR-CHS flight it equates to nothing more than a twice a week four month summer charter flight nothing more nothing less. Who knows if it even comes back in 2020.



Lol!

If STL got this the narrative would be “BA is making an ambitious bet on Missouri, the service will prove itself like AUS & BNA and will be expanded”


I think it is more the prestige of being able to say you have a flight to Europe more than anything. Do I really mind having a layover at DTW to go to Europe? Not really. Unless you are going to whatever city we would get service to, you are going to have a layover somewhere anyway. I guess the business community might think differently though. Not that having WOW helped them any in the first place.

Having all the domestic nonstops really do more for me. I actually use a lot of them. Sacramento has been handy already for me. They just don't get the praise a TATL does.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:22 am

klm617 wrote:
There really is nothing to get upset about the BA twice a week LHR-CHS flight it equates to nothing more than a twice a week four month summer charter flight nothing more nothing less. Who knows if it even comes back in 2020.


That is a dangerous precedent to set in the air service world
DL DM, AA Gold in 2018, Visited 2018:AMS, ATL, AUS, BOS, BWI, CDG, CLT, CMN, DCA, DFW, DTW, DXB, EWR, FLL, FRA, HAV, HPN, JFK, JNB, IAD, IAH, IND, LAX, LGA, LHR, LOS, MAD, MCO, MIA, MSP, ORD, PBI, PHL, PVD, SAN, SEA, SJD, SLC, SFO, STL, TPA, TXL, YYZ, ZRH
 
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TWA302
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:07 pm

So CHS is paying $2M for the BA opportunity, plus spending around $9M in airport upgrades. That is a huge investment.
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:22 pm

New jetbridges are being installed.
A8 and A10 - Delta
A14 United
A15 Charter (Volaris is running the charters next year)
A30 - Unknown. This is in the area of C that is being remodeled and reopened. Last I heard it should be open around March.
 
jplatts
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:49 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
New jetbridges are being installed.
A8 and A10 - Delta


It appears that DL might possibly be expanding at STL again soon if extra jetbridges are being installed for DL at STL. Is DL going to be announcing STL-SEA, STL-LAX, SEA-BOS, and/or SEA-JFK nonstop service soon? I think that DL adding nonstop service to SEA, LAX, BOS, and JFK from STL might happen since DL serves already serves these 4 destinations nonstop from other Midwestern cities.
Last edited by jplatts on Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
stlgph
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:58 pm

Are these *NEW* jetbridges or replacements?
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:08 pm

stlgph wrote:
Are these *NEW* jetbridges or replacements?


The As are replacements of the current ones, but are new as in bought new. C30 currently does not have a Jet bridge so it is new in both senses.
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:11 pm

jplatts wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
New jetbridges are being installed.
A8 and A10 - Delta


It appears that DL might possibly be expanding at STL again soon if extra jetbridges are being installed for DL at STL. Is DL going to be announcing STL-SEA, STL-LAX, SEA-BOS, and/or SEA-JFK nonstop service soon? I think that DL adding nonstop service to SEA, LAX, BOS, and JFK from STL might happen since DL serves already serves 4 of these destinations nonstop from other Midwestern cities.


Sorry for the confusion the A bridges are new replacements of old ones. A concourse I think is maxed out on jet bridges. They might still have room for one at A12 but I think that space is converted into storage or something else now. All the other gates have jet bridges or are blocked by retail/restaurants. A9 is the only one with a jetbrige that isn't in use by someone. Delta does use it for late night arrivals during peak season, but no one used it for boarding. It has a small waiting area, it would have to be for an RJ only.
 
stlgph
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:17 pm

Hard to believe there was a time when Northwest, Continental, American, US Air, Air Canada, America West, Delta, and United, and eventually, Frontier, were all shoved into that one concourse.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
maps4ltd
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:20 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
New jetbridges are being installed.
A8 and A10 - Delta


The last time I flew Delta, it was STL-SLC on an A320 in June 2018. The Delta app showed boarding at A10, the sign at A10 indicated there was a flight to Salt Lake City departing on time, everyone was waiting in the seating area at A10, but there was no plane. However, across the way at A9, there was a plane parked at the jetbridge at A9. When I asked the GA, she said it had to do with the lack of seating at A9.

I am certain we boarded out of A9 because there was a Swift Air plane parked at A15. However, I checked Google Maps and it didn't show a jetbridge at A9. The aerial imagery was probably from 2016 or 17, though.
 
stlgph
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:34 pm

I had something similar in March of this year ... waiting for our bad ass CR9 on DL to LGA, we were at one gate, told to go to another, and then it pulled up at the one next to that.

meh?
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
jplatts
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:42 pm

Is there enough room to accommodate DL in either Concourse C or the western end of Concourse D at STL? I think that DL could probably be moved to either Concourse C or the western end of Concourse D if DL needed more gates at STL.
 
Jshank83
Topic Author
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:02 pm

maps4ltd wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
New jetbridges are being installed.
A8 and A10 - Delta


The last time I flew Delta, it was STL-SLC on an A320 in June 2018. The Delta app showed boarding at A10, the sign at A10 indicated there was a flight to Salt Lake City departing on time, everyone was waiting in the seating area at A10, but there was no plane. However, across the way at A9, there was a plane parked at the jetbridge at A9. When I asked the GA, she said it had to do with the lack of seating at A9.

I am certain we boarded out of A9 because there was a Swift Air plane parked at A15. However, I checked Google Maps and it didn't show a jetbridge at A9. The aerial imagery was probably from 2016 or 17, though.


You are correct about A9 being short on seating. The summer flight from SLC that would come in after midnight would offload at A9. I was always under the assumption they moved it overnight to another gate. I guess they must have just been doing what you said you did. Tell people A10 for seating them make them go across the hall. Seems like a pain though, hopefully they didn't do that too often.

A9 has a jet bridge now. If you look on google earth from Feb this year it has one.
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:06 pm

jplatts wrote:
Is there enough room to accommodate DL in either Concourse C or the western end of Concourse D at STL? I think that DL could probably be moved to either Concourse C or the western end of Concourse D if DL needed more gates at STL.


IF they moved them there is room at the end of C, they could get a sky club if they did that. There is an old Admirals club down there that isn't in use anymore. That or they could swap them with F9/Sun Country/Alaska as well. The only way I see that ever happening is if they get a flight to CDG or AMS on Delta. Otherwise they probably wouldn't need more gates to just add a few flights. I can't see any way they would put them in D.
 
maps4ltd
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:54 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
maps4ltd wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
New jetbridges are being installed.
A8 and A10 - Delta


The last time I flew Delta, it was STL-SLC on an A320 in June 2018. The Delta app showed boarding at A10, the sign at A10 indicated there was a flight to Salt Lake City departing on time, everyone was waiting in the seating area at A10, but there was no plane. However, across the way at A9, there was a plane parked at the jetbridge at A9. When I asked the GA, she said it had to do with the lack of seating at A9.

I am certain we boarded out of A9 because there was a Swift Air plane parked at A15. However, I checked Google Maps and it didn't show a jetbridge at A9. The aerial imagery was probably from 2016 or 17, though.


You are correct about A9 being short on seating. The summer flight from SLC that would come in after midnight would offload at A9. I was always under the assumption they moved it overnight to another gate. I guess they must have just been doing what you said you did. Tell people A10 for seating them make them go across the hall. Seems like a pain though, hopefully they didn't do that too often.

A9 has a jet bridge now. If you look on google earth from Feb this year it has one.


Yep, boarding was a mess. We boarded 40 minutes early, and spilled across the hall since not everyone could be accomodated at A9. It was completely full that morning, and the group blocked a lot of United pax trying to get down to the end of the concourse. I missed most of it, though, since I was in the Comfort+ section.
 
Jshank83
Topic Author
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:02 am

maps4ltd wrote:

Yep, boarding was a mess. We boarded 40 minutes early, and spilled across the hall since not everyone could be accomodated at A9. It was completely full that morning, and the group blocked a lot of United pax trying to get down to the end of the concourse. I missed most of it, though, since I was in the Comfort+ section.


They really should only park RJs in that spot. Oh well.
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:22 pm

September numbers are out. Another solid month. 37 straight months of positive YoY growth.

Up 6.4% for the month
Up 6% for the year
11,666,148 total for the year so far.

https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... PubRel.pdf
 
mutu
Posts: 392
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:19 pm

klm617 wrote:
There really is nothing to get upset about the BA twice a week LHR-CHS flight it equates to nothing more than a twice a week four month summer charter flight nothing more nothing less. Who knows if it even comes back in 2020.


Exactly. This is a quasi charter service with a little bit of corporate support, and a guarantee to underpin it. Frankly even if its a commercial failure, it wont cost BA that much given the frame would otherwise be slack in the system. That said, if it performs better than expected it may become a regular seasonal feature....or more. But I remain convinced this is a one-off and STL is as likely as before to get BA (however likely that is)
 
Jshank83
Topic Author
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:27 pm

Parking a little full today. This is about the most I’ve seen. I still think they should raise rates in T2.

Image
 
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TWA302
Posts: 437
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 12:17 am

Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:46 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Parking a little full today. This is about the most I’ve seen. I still think they should raise rates in T2.

Image


I always use The Parking Spot 1 . Valet is the best and with my discount tons cheaper. :-)
 
777PHX
Posts: 831
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:36 am

Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:56 pm

mutu wrote:
klm617 wrote:
There really is nothing to get upset about the BA twice a week LHR-CHS flight it equates to nothing more than a twice a week four month summer charter flight nothing more nothing less. Who knows if it even comes back in 2020.


Exactly. This is a quasi charter service with a little bit of corporate support, and a guarantee to underpin it. Frankly even if its a commercial failure, it wont cost BA that much given the frame would otherwise be slack in the system. That said, if it performs better than expected it may become a regular seasonal feature....or more. But I remain convinced this is a one-off and STL is as likely as before to get BA (however likely that is)


I really do think STL is economically competitive for these flights, but it's a matter of $$$$. PIT, for example, is paying BA $1.5M in guarantees over two years time. That's relatively low risk for BA, even if the route flops, so we need to be offering something on par with that.
 
Jshank83
Topic Author
Posts: 2162
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:07 pm

777PHX wrote:
mutu wrote:
klm617 wrote:
There really is nothing to get upset about the BA twice a week LHR-CHS flight it equates to nothing more than a twice a week four month summer charter flight nothing more nothing less. Who knows if it even comes back in 2020.


Exactly. This is a quasi charter service with a little bit of corporate support, and a guarantee to underpin it. Frankly even if its a commercial failure, it wont cost BA that much given the frame would otherwise be slack in the system. That said, if it performs better than expected it may become a regular seasonal feature....or more. But I remain convinced this is a one-off and STL is as likely as before to get BA (however likely that is)


I really do think STL is economically competitive for these flights, but it's a matter of $$$$. PIT, for example, is paying BA $1.5M in guarantees over two years time. That's relatively low risk for BA, even if the route flops, so we need to be offering something on par with that.


STL needs to find a way to build up their incentive pool. The state won't contribute anything which hurts it vs other states where they are getting help from the state level. It isn't like the city has any money to put in. They have the Port Authority that recently offered some money but they need more input than that.
 
Jshank83
Topic Author
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:44 pm

Filled out my LF spreadsheet for July.

Most west coast destinations were 90% or above. A fair amount in the mid 90s
UA was 89% and up
F9 was all in the 90s
G4 was mostly in the 90s
WN has too many to list. Most everything was above 80 with lots above 90. MSY was the only one that stuck out as below 80.
CVG on DL still lacking. July was the first month all year passengers were up on the route though. Partly could be because WN started CVG service June 2017 so from June 17-June 18 some people who were flying DL moved to WN. This was the first full month of overlap.

Anyway, looks good overall.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
 
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stl07
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:55 pm

 
stlgph
Posts: 10717
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:59 pm

Surprised the second daily DL STL-CVG flight isn't better timed to offer a thru onto the flight to Paris.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
Jshank83
Topic Author
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:04 am

stlgph wrote:
Surprised the second daily DL STL-CVG flight isn't better timed to offer a thru onto the flight to Paris.


I agree. I would be more than happy to fly thru CVG both ways. To/from YYZ also. But it at least used to be a direct YYZ-CVG-STL, not sure if it still is. They made you get off in between but it still was an easy connection.

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