LambertMan
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Oct 25, 2018 2:31 am

stl07 wrote:

I didnt think we could have done worse than Slay. We did.
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:16 am

stl07 wrote:


I am a little torn on the issue, I don't really trust the alderman to vote with a clear mind (as usual), but I also don't think 95% of the voting public would have a clue about it to be informed to vote on it. I am following it fairly closely and I really don't know what is going on with it, so John Doe down the street who isn't following it at all shouldn't be voting on it either. I need a lot more details go come out before I get too invested in it. Still too many unknowns.
 
mutu
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:59 am

777PHX wrote:
mutu wrote:
klm617 wrote:
There really is nothing to get upset about the BA twice a week LHR-CHS flight it equates to nothing more than a twice a week four month summer charter flight nothing more nothing less. Who knows if it even comes back in 2020.


Exactly. This is a quasi charter service with a little bit of corporate support, and a guarantee to underpin it. Frankly even if its a commercial failure, it wont cost BA that much given the frame would otherwise be slack in the system. That said, if it performs better than expected it may become a regular seasonal feature....or more. But I remain convinced this is a one-off and STL is as likely as before to get BA (however likely that is)


I really do think STL is economically competitive for these flights, but it's a matter of $$$$. PIT, for example, is paying BA $1.5M in guarantees over two years time. That's relatively low risk for BA, even if the route flops, so we need to be offering something on par with that.


Agreed. And of course a guarantee is not a certain cost to the City. If the route does well like BNA and to a slightly lesser extent MSY, the guarantees wont be called against (or not in full in any event). The City needs to gamble on its own attractiveness in effect.
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:32 pm

Owner of crown candy kitchen had an interesting flight (or non flight) from CUN on F9.

Frontier Airlines passenger opens cabin door, deploys emergency slide on taxiway
National story: https://www.foxnews.com/travel/frontier ... on-taxiway
Local story: https://fox2now.com/2018/10/23/may-depl ... rs-flight/
 
STLflyer
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:19 pm

Someone really didn't want their vacation to end.

“If he would have opened door in-air, who knows what would have happened,” he said.


Sigh. Every time something like this happens, someone says that. Did no one pay attention in high school physics class?
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:55 pm

One of the releases I always enjoy. 3rd qtr noise report, but it includes airplane type and runway usage at the airport.
737 MAX cracks the top 20
The newest runway was up to 16%

https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... REPORT.pdf
 
maps4ltd
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:03 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Filled out my LF spreadsheet for July.

Most west coast destinations were 90% or above. A fair amount in the mid 90s
UA was 89% and up
F9 was all in the 90s
G4 was mostly in the 90s
WN has too many to list. Most everything was above 80 with lots above 90. MSY was the only one that stuck out as below 80.
CVG on DL still lacking. July was the first month all year passengers were up on the route though. Partly could be because WN started CVG service June 2017 so from June 17-June 18 some people who were flying DL moved to WN. This was the first full month of overlap.

Anyway, looks good overall.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing



When do you usually update the RJs?
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:08 pm

maps4ltd wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Filled out my LF spreadsheet for July.

Most west coast destinations were 90% or above. A fair amount in the mid 90s
UA was 89% and up
F9 was all in the 90s
G4 was mostly in the 90s
WN has too many to list. Most everything was above 80 with lots above 90. MSY was the only one that stuck out as below 80.
CVG on DL still lacking. July was the first month all year passengers were up on the route though. Partly could be because WN started CVG service June 2017 so from June 17-June 18 some people who were flying DL moved to WN. This was the first full month of overlap.

Anyway, looks good overall.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing



When do you usually update the RJs?


The numbers have RJ's included.
except
I don't do LGA on DL/AA and ORD on AA/UA because they share the same regional airlines (trans states, Republic, etc) and I don't want to try to pick thru them and try to figure out which ones went with which.)

If you want a certain RJ's numbers broken out for a certain airport let me know and I can get it for you. I just can't guarantee with airline it went with for those 2 cities.

I could probably do LGA. I think AA is all republic and DL is all endeavor.
 
maps4ltd
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:35 pm

Yeah, I'd like to see ORD. Isn't AA ending its Trans States contract soon anyway?
 
jplatts
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:45 pm

maps4ltd wrote:
Yeah, I'd like to see ORD. Isn't AA ending its Trans States contract soon anyway?


AA is going to be discontinuing its contract with Trans States in 2019, and there was an article on Bloomberg that AA is going to be discontinuing its contracts with AX and EV (which can be found at https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-04/american-air-to-end-regional-deals-with-expressjet-trans-states).
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:38 pm

maps4ltd wrote:
Yeah, I'd like to see ORD. Isn't AA ending its Trans States contract soon anyway?


I updated LGA. So far this year they haven't had any crossover (although it looks like Republic is going to pick up a DL flight starting in March, so that complicates things)

I'll try to get to ORD tonight. And yes it is, that will make things a little easier with TSA going all UA. I might have to break it out as what I know is UA, what I know is AA and then other. But I will get something up.
 
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stl07
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:43 pm

STLflyer wrote:
Someone really didn't want their vacation to end.

“If he would have opened door in-air, who knows what would have happened,” he said.


Sigh. Every time something like this happens, someone says that. Did no one pay attention in high school physics class?

Beat me to it
 
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symphonicpoet
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:22 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
stl07 wrote:


I am a little torn on the issue, I don't really trust the alderman to vote with a clear mind (as usual), but I also don't think 95% of the voting public would have a clue about it to be informed to vote on it. I am following it fairly closely and I really don't know what is going on with it, so John Doe down the street who isn't following it at all shouldn't be voting on it either. I need a lot more details go come out before I get too invested in it. Still too many unknowns.


Like you I'm trying to follow the issue as closely as I am able and I'm frustrated with the lack of information. I feel as though the biggest reason that I'm not terribly well informed on this is precisely because they're trying to avoid a vote. With a vote they'd be forced to release information of some sort to the larger public. A lot would be suspect, but at least then we could analyze the arguments. (And it doesn't seem completely out of the pale that someone will force a vote somehow. Which will mean more lousy political ads.)
TW AA MU JL KE DL UA LOF GJS SKW WN
STL JFK FRA GVA CDG IAD ORD PVG SGN NRT ICN ATL SFO HKG MDW LGA BNA
L1011 MD82 83 88 B737 738 741 744 762 772 773 777 A320 E175 C700
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:15 am

maps4ltd wrote:
Yeah, I'd like to see ORD. Isn't AA ending its Trans States contract soon anyway?


Okay ORD is updated now. It should be right. Jan/Feb could be a tad off cause I didn't keep track of plane type then but I think it is good. Close enough at least.

The very last tab (raw) still should only be the ORD flights until the next time I need to update the entire thing. So, it will have everything broken down by month/airline(including RJ airline broken out if you want to see more specific). Only thing to watch out for is that diversions show up so there will be a random Delta/Alaska etc because when they are going to ORD they get diverted here a lot.

Let me know if you need anything else.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:24 am

Oh, hello there. Number 6.

Image
 
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stl07
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:23 am

Jshank83 wrote:
delete

nice one, buddy
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:27 am

stl07 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
delete

nice one, buddy

This site has been screwed up for me all day. It was just a matter of time before I did a multiple post, wasn't expecting a 5x one though.
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:54 pm

symphonicpoet wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
stl07 wrote:


I am a little torn on the issue, I don't really trust the alderman to vote with a clear mind (as usual), but I also don't think 95% of the voting public would have a clue about it to be informed to vote on it. I am following it fairly closely and I really don't know what is going on with it, so John Doe down the street who isn't following it at all shouldn't be voting on it either. I need a lot more details go come out before I get too invested in it. Still too many unknowns.


Like you I'm trying to follow the issue as closely as I am able and I'm frustrated with the lack of information. I feel as though the biggest reason that I'm not terribly well informed on this is precisely because they're trying to avoid a vote. With a vote they'd be forced to release information of some sort to the larger public. A lot would be suspect, but at least then we could analyze the arguments. (And it doesn't seem completely out of the pale that someone will force a vote somehow. Which will mean more lousy political ads.)


I think one issue is the working group doesn't even have much information yet to share. They just started this a couple months ago. People keep wanting answers that no one has. It is easy to say give us info! But what info do they really want to know that the working group has an answer to? It seems like the people who are super against it just want to shout to shout about something. Until I see proposals, I am not going to get too bent of shape on things. Those are what I will want to see before I decide anything. People just need to be a little patient.
 
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stl07
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:13 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Oh, hello there. Number 6.

Image

LAX/MIA isn't on the list. Hmmm.....
Very cool results, but this looks just like the gun violence lists us midwesterners hate, they only look at the city and not the metro. (Visitors to MIA/LAX visit out of county destinations, but visitors to Stl stay in the city usually)
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:40 pm

stl07 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Oh, hello there. Number 6.

LAX/MIA isn't on the list. Hmmm.....
Very cool results, but this looks just like the gun violence lists us midwesterners hate, they only look at the city and not the metro. (Visitors to MIA/LAX visit out of county destinations, but visitors to Stl stay in the city usually)


If that is how they count it then it should have been tougher for us to make the list. It is a raw number not a X per 100k like the violence lists that get skewed by low city population. Plus, since the city itself (land wise) isn't very big I would think they would have hurt our standing since there aren't as many places to stay in the city limits as other cities, not helped it. I would think plenty of visitors to STL are going to see/work with people who live in the county. Airport bookings (which are part of it) are to the airport, regardless of where they are going.

No LA i surprising though but I am sure it gets divided up somewhat.
 
777PHX
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:51 pm

I'm not even sure what that's supposed to show. So, it's the percentage of people booking airline tickets to STL that are also booking hotel stays in STL? What's the significance of that?
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:10 pm

777PHX wrote:
I'm not even sure what that's supposed to show. So, it's the percentage of people booking airline tickets to STL that are also booking hotel stays in STL? What's the significance of that?


Here is the article. Maybe they are wanting to see how many people are actually staying in hotels when they go to a city, so they can weed out people who live there and are just flying home or are flying in then staying somewhere else (ie Columbia, Mo/Springfield, IL/etc)? I am guessing that is their thinking. Not saying it is the best way to figure it out (although I am not sure there is a good way) but I can see their logic on it. Maybe just looking at hotel bookings would make more sense but then again maybe they aren't counting people in driving distance? It also wouldn't count people who fly in then airbnb

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/15-popul ... 19566.html

Anyway, I thought it was interesting. I think most wouldn't have expected STL to be anywhere near a list like this, so it is nice to see there is some momentum hopefully. It is easy for people here to get in their bubble here and look at the downside of everything.
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:24 pm

E40 now has a Jet Bridge and is in use for Southwest. That puts them at 17 gates now. It is going to be tight down in that E34-40 area though. It also means all the gates for what of concourse D is open is now taken. If they want more gates they will have to open up another section of D. They could probably get about 3 more gates in if they opened it up until the next choke point.
 
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stl07
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:20 am

Don't sleep on DL, they have been actively expanding in the Midwest. I wouldn't be surprised if they added BOS, LAX, or even AMS/CDG
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:26 am

stl07 wrote:
Don't sleep on DL, they have been actively expanding in the Midwest. I wouldn't be surprised if they added BOS, LAX, or even AMS/CDG


Don’t tease me like that. I would love anything from them, especially Boston. I posted this recently but I wish they would add BOS/LAX/SEA (even on E175s) and a TATL. Move to the end of C and open a sky club in the old Admirals/TWA club. I know it’s a longshot for them to add all that but I would like to see them expand, even if it means pushing AA out a bit. I know they tried in the early 2010s to expand here and it didn’t work, but I would assume there is less AA loyalty now.
 
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stl07
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:32 am

Jshank83 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Don't sleep on DL, they have been actively expanding in the Midwest. I wouldn't be surprised if they added BOS, LAX, or even AMS/CDG


Don’t tease me like that. I would love anything from them, especially Boston. I posted this recently but I wish they would add BOS/LAX/SEA (even on E175s) and a TATL. Move to the end of C and open a sky club in the old Admirals/TWA club. I know it’s a longshot for they to add all that but I would like to see them expand, even if it means pushing AA out a bit. I know they tried in the early 2010s to expand here and it didn’t work, but I would assume there is less AA loyalty now.

IND, MCI, CMH, and PIT have seen new destinations on them. BOS and the TATL are both big holes for the city, so I wouldn't be surprised to see one of those here in the future
 
stlgph
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:44 am

It will definitely be interesting to see what happens with Delta in Boston in 2019. Clearly they have plans and are looking to move on said plans.

Knowing that Delta always seems to figure out a way to "do things," wouldn't surprise me to see them add Boston-O'Hare. That'll be a nice discussion thread.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:10 am

stlgph wrote:
It will definitely be interesting to see what happens with Delta in Boston in 2019. Clearly they have plans and are looking to move on said plans.

Knowing that Delta always seems to figure out a way to "do things," wouldn't surprise me to see them add Boston-O'Hare. That'll be a nice discussion thread.


I’m actually surprised they don’t run BOS-ORD already.
 
jplatts
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:33 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
CVG on DL still lacking. July was the first month all year passengers were up on the route though. Partly could be because WN started CVG service June 2017 so from June 17-June 18 some people who were flying DL moved to WN. This was the first full month of overlap.


WN usually charges lower fares on STL-OMA and STL-MKE flights than DL usually does on STL-CVG nonstop flights, and the lower fares stimulate additional demand for WN nonstop service to STL from OMA and MKE. In addition, while OMA and MKE are located in metropolitan areas that are smaller by population than CVG is, there is currently significantly more demand for WN service out of OMA and MKE than there is out of CVG, and the PDEWs are also higher on the STL-OMA and STL-MKE routes than on the STL-CVG route.

There are some travelers in the Greater St. Louis who drive to the Cincinnati area instead of flying DL to CVG from STL or connecting to CVG from STL through Chicago, and WN would be able to capture some of travelers who currently drive to the Cincinnati area from St. Louis if WN adds STL-CVG nonstop service. There are also some travelers in Greater St. Louis who currently fly to CVG on DL who would switch to WN if WN added CVG-STL nonstop service.

WN already has nonstop service from STL to most of the domestic destinations east of CVG that DL serves still nonstop from CVG, and JFK is currently the only U.S. destination with nonstop service out of CVG on DL that isn't currently served nonstop from STL. On the other hand, WN would be able to connect passengers to destinations that aren't currently served nonstop from CVG such as DAL, DSM, HOU, LIT, OAK, OKC, OMA, PDX, TUL, and ICT from CVG through STL if it added STL-CVG nonstop service.

WN adding STL-CVG nonstop service would likely lead to lower fares on the STL-CVG nonstop flights, and WN would also be able to provide Cincinnati-area business travelers with easier access to the western half of the Midwest, the South Central U.S., and the West Coast from CVG if it adds STL-CVG nonstop service.
 
stlgph
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:36 pm

wtf
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:04 pm

jplatts wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
CVG on DL still lacking. July was the first month all year passengers were up on the route though. Partly could be because WN started CVG service June 2017 so from June 17-June 18 some people who were flying DL moved to WN. This was the first full month of overlap.


WN usually charges lower fares on STL-OMA and STL-MKE flights than DL usually does on STL-CVG nonstop flights, and the lower fares stimulate additional demand for WN nonstop service to STL from OMA and MKE. In addition, while OMA and MKE are located in metropolitan areas that are smaller by population than CVG is, there is currently significantly more demand for WN service out of OMA and MKE than there is out of CVG, and the PDEWs are also higher on the STL-OMA and STL-MKE routes than on the STL-CVG route.

There are some travelers in the Greater St. Louis who drive to the Cincinnati area instead of flying DL to CVG from STL or connecting to CVG from STL through Chicago, and WN would be able to capture some of travelers who currently drive to the Cincinnati area from St. Louis if WN adds STL-CVG nonstop service. There are also some travelers in Greater St. Louis who currently fly to CVG on DL who would switch to WN if WN added CVG-STL nonstop service.

WN already has nonstop service from STL to most of the domestic destinations east of CVG that DL serves still nonstop from CVG, and JFK is currently the only U.S. destination with nonstop service out of CVG on DL that isn't currently served nonstop from STL. On the other hand, WN would be able to connect passengers to destinations that aren't currently served nonstop from CVG such as DAL, DSM, HOU, LIT, OAK, OKC, OMA, PDX, TUL, and ICT from CVG through STL if it added STL-CVG nonstop service.

WN adding STL-CVG nonstop service would likely lead to lower fares on the STL-CVG nonstop flights, and WN would also be able to provide Cincinnati-area business travelers with easier access to the western half of the Midwest, the South Central U.S., and the West Coast from CVG if it adds STL-CVG nonstop service.


I can't even process what this all says, and I am not sure what OMA/MKE-STL has to do with STL-CVG.

Whatever you were trying to say probably could have been said in 3 or 4 sentences and a lot easier to understand instead of all that rambling.
Also, I am pretty sure CVG already has tons of one stop options (on multiple airlines) to all the places STL would connect them to.
 
jplatts
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:19 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
can't even process what this all says, and I am not sure what OMA/MKE-STL has to do with STL-CVG.
Whatever you were trying to say probably could have been said in 3 or 4 sentences and a lot easier to understand instead of all that rambling.
Also, I am pretty sure CVG already has tons of one stop options (on multiple airlines) to all the places STL would connect them to.


The point that I was trying to make is that OMA, MKE, and STL are approximately equidistant from STL, but there is more demand for STL-OMA and STL-MKE nonstop service than there is for STL-CVG nonstop service.

While I agree with your point that CVG has plenty of one stop options (on multiple airlines) to most of the places that STL would connect them to, there is currently no nonstop service to DSM, LIT, ICT, or TUL from either MDW or CVG. Connecting through STL on WN to LIT, ICT, or TUL from CVG would be a much better option than connecting through ORD or DTW on AA, UA, or DL carriers if WN adds CVG-STL nonstop service.
 
kavok
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:34 pm

jplatts wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
can't even process what this all says, and I am not sure what OMA/MKE-STL has to do with STL-CVG.
Whatever you were trying to say probably could have been said in 3 or 4 sentences and a lot easier to understand instead of all that rambling.
Also, I am pretty sure CVG already has tons of one stop options (on multiple airlines) to all the places STL would connect them to.


The point that I was trying to make is that OMA, MKE, and STL are approximately equidistant from STL, but there is more demand for STL-OMA and STL-MKE nonstop service than there is for STL-CVG nonstop service.

While I agree with your point that CVG has plenty of one stop options (on multiple airlines) to most of the places that STL would connect them to, there is currently no nonstop service to DSM, LIT, ICT, or TUL from either MDW or CVG. Connecting through STL on WN to LIT, ICT, or TUL from CVG would be a much better option than connecting through ORD or DTW on AA, UA, or DL carriers if WN adds CVG-STL nonstop service.


Yes and no. WN is a mixed bag with business pax. In STL they are obviously the carrier with the largest overall pax share, so many STL business pax have adopted them as their carrier of choice. But in a market like CVG with strong legacy presence, a lot of business pax are hesitant to use WN. Advance seat selection, and FF status drives a lot of pax in markets like CVG to use the legacies... even if that means going slightly out of the way to connect in DTW/ORD over STL.
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:22 am

kavok wrote:
jplatts wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
can't even process what this all says, and I am not sure what OMA/MKE-STL has to do with STL-CVG.
Whatever you were trying to say probably could have been said in 3 or 4 sentences and a lot easier to understand instead of all that rambling.
Also, I am pretty sure CVG already has tons of one stop options (on multiple airlines) to all the places STL would connect them to.


The point that I was trying to make is that OMA, MKE, and STL are approximately equidistant from STL, but there is more demand for STL-OMA and STL-MKE nonstop service than there is for STL-CVG nonstop service.

While I agree with your point that CVG has plenty of one stop options (on multiple airlines) to most of the places that STL would connect them to, there is currently no nonstop service to DSM, LIT, ICT, or TUL from either MDW or CVG. Connecting through STL on WN to LIT, ICT, or TUL from CVG would be a much better option than connecting through ORD or DTW on AA, UA, or DL carriers if WN adds CVG-STL nonstop service.


Yes and no. WN is a mixed bag with business pax. In STL they are obviously the carrier with the largest overall pax share, so many STL business pax have adopted them as their carrier of choice. But in a market like CVG with strong legacy presence, a lot of business pax are hesitant to use WN. Advance seat selection, and FF status drives a lot of pax in markets like CVG to use the legacies... even if that means going slightly out of the way to connect in DTW/ORD over STL.


This^ I would imagine a majority of the business passengers at CVG aren't flying WN with it being so new there. So, I am not sure adding a one stop option on WN to those 3 smaller markets matters much to CVG people. I would imagine the PDEW numbers between them and CVG is pretty low.
 
jplatts
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:24 am

kavok wrote:
Yes and no. WN is a mixed bag with business pax. In STL they are obviously the carrier with the largest overall pax share, so many STL business pax have adopted them as their carrier of choice. But in a market like CVG with strong legacy presence, a lot of business pax are hesitant to use WN. Advance seat selection, and FF status drives a lot of pax in markets like CVG to use the legacies... even if that means going slightly out of the way to connect in DTW/ORD over STL.


I agree with your point, but WN already has nonstop service to most of the other legacy carrier hub or focus city airports from STL, including SEA, SFO, LAX, PHX, DEN, MSP, DTW, ATL, BOS, LGA, EWR, PHL, DCA, and RDU.

SFO, LAX, PHX, DEN, MSP, DTW, ATL, LGA, EWR, PHL, and DCA also already have nonstop service from STL on at least one of the big 3 legacy carriers in addition to WN. DEN, MSP, DTW, ATL, LGA, EWR, PHL, and DCA also currently have more nonstop service out of STL on the legacy carriers than CVG does.

CLT, CVG, SLC, and IAD are the only legacy carrier hub or focus city airports served by WN that don't currently have nonstop service to STL on WN, but AA already serves CLT nonstop from STL, DL already serves CVG and SLC nonstop from STL, and UA already serves IAD nonstop from STL. While WN doesn't currently serve DFW, IAH, ORD, MIA, or JFK, WN already has nonstop service to DAL, HOU, MDW, FLL, and LGA from STL.
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:26 am

A couple notes for November.

Sun Country starts 2x weekly service to TPA on Nov 1
Frontier starts 2x weekly service to PBI on November 15
Southwest CUN service goes to daily on Nov 4. ECP last flight for the season is Nov 3 (comes back March 7th)
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:28 am

jplatts wrote:
kavok wrote:
Yes and no. WN is a mixed bag with business pax. In STL they are obviously the carrier with the largest overall pax share, so many STL business pax have adopted them as their carrier of choice. But in a market like CVG with strong legacy presence, a lot of business pax are hesitant to use WN. Advance seat selection, and FF status drives a lot of pax in markets like CVG to use the legacies... even if that means going slightly out of the way to connect in DTW/ORD over STL.


I agree with your point, but WN already has nonstop service to most of the other legacy carrier hub or focus city airports from STL, including SEA, SFO, LAX, PHX, DEN, MSP, DTW, ATL, BOS, LGA, EWR, PHL, DCA, and RDU.

SFO, LAX, PHX, DEN, MSP, DTW, ATL, LGA, EWR, PHL, and DCA also already have nonstop service from STL on at least one of the big 3 legacy carriers in addition to WN. DEN, MSP, DTW, ATL, LGA, EWR, PHL, and DCA also currently have more nonstop service out of STL on the legacy carriers than CVG does.

CLT, CVG, SLC, and IAD are the only legacy carrier hub or focus city airports served by WN that don't currently have nonstop service to STL on WN, but AA already serves CLT nonstop from STL, DL already serves CVG and SLC nonstop from STL, and UA already serves IAD nonstop from STL. While WN doesn't currently serve DFW, IAH, ORD, MIA, or JFK, WN already has nonstop service to DAL, HOU, MDW, FLL, and LGA from STL.


I already know who flies where, you don't need to list it all out and make your posts more confusing. STL has service to all those places for the people in STL's sake because lots of people here fly WN. So what does that have to do with CVG business people? Just get to the point instead of listing out these long lists.
 
stlgph
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:06 am

Have we heard any mumblings about Sun Country at STL so far?
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
jplatts
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:13 am

Jshank83 wrote:
I already know who flies where, you don't need to list it all out and make your posts more confusing. STL has service to all those places for the people in STL's sake because lots of people here fly WN. So what does that have to do with CVG business people? Just get to the point instead of listing out these long lists.


WN adding CVG-STL nonstop service would give CVG-based business travelers easier access to the western half of the Midwest, the South Central U.S., and the West Coast from CVG. There would also be many WN customers in Nebraska, Iowa, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Texas, and California who would be connecting to CVG through STL if WN adds CVG-STL nonstop service.
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:23 am

stlgph wrote:
Have we heard any mumblings about Sun Country at STL so far?


I haven't heard anything. Looking at a couple seat maps they seem to be 50% or so full for people who are paying for their seat choice ahead of time. That is a little better than I actually expected. I don't see much advertising so hopefully they are working with travel agents. I am curious what they try to run for summer.
 
stlgph
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:30 am

Appears they are letting OTAs do most of their selling and marketing for them. They have been rather quiet on the social media channels with STL and what have you, but not a surprise given the current turn over going on at HQ thanks to the operational changes.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
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stl07
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:08 am

jplatts wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
I already know who flies where, you don't need to list it all out and make your posts more confusing. STL has service to all those places for the people in STL's sake because lots of people here fly WN. So what does that have to do with CVG business people? Just get to the point instead of listing out these long lists.


WN adding CVG-STL nonstop service would give CVG-based business travelers easier access to the western half of the Midwest, the South Central U.S., and the West Coast from CVG. There would also be many WN customers in Nebraska, Iowa, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Texas, and California who would be connecting to CVG through STL if WN adds CVG-STL nonstop service.

much better version
 
stlgph
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:36 am

stl07 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
I already know who flies where, you don't need to list it all out and make your posts more confusing. STL has service to all those places for the people in STL's sake because lots of people here fly WN. So what does that have to do with CVG business people? Just get to the point instead of listing out these long lists.


WN adding CVG-STL nonstop service would give CVG-based business travelers easier access to the western half of the Midwest, the South Central U.S., and the West Coast from CVG. There would also be many WN customers in Nebraska, Iowa, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Texas, and California who would be connecting to CVG through STL if WN adds CVG-STL nonstop service.

much better version


cant lie.
i'm sitting here watching NCIS resisting such an urge to parody all this.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
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symphonicpoet
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:36 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
I think one issue is the working group doesn't even have much information yet to share. They just started this a couple months ago. People keep wanting answers that no one has. It is easy to say give us info! But what info do they really want to know that the working group has an answer to? It seems like the people who are super against it just want to shout to shout about something. Until I see proposals, I am not going to get too bent of shape on things. Those are what I will want to see before I decide anything. People just need to be a little patient.


Makes sense that there's not much to say yet, but more transparency will help either diffuse the calls for a vote or, failing that, win voters over. (Assuming there's a solid economic argument in favor of this, that is.) We shall see. I can certainly agree with you that patience is probably the order of the day. Never a bad thing. And keeping the emotional polemic out would also be a nice change. (And harder to do if there's a vote scheduled. Political ads live on that stuff.)

But somebody asked for pictures of Sun Country at STL. I had a bit of a camera failure (zoom got jammed and required some serious technical taps to dislodge.) So the early returns aren't my best work, but . . .

Image
N819SY

Image[url=https://flic.kr/p/2bghpaq]

Lots more where that came from if you click through, though not much Sun Country. (I did randomly get a Sun Country charter in the background of an apron overview a year or so back, but it's hard to make out.)
TW AA MU JL KE DL UA LOF GJS SKW WN
STL JFK FRA GVA CDG IAD ORD PVG SGN NRT ICN ATL SFO HKG MDW LGA BNA
L1011 MD82 83 88 B737 738 741 744 762 772 773 777 A320 E175 C700
 
stlgph
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:48 pm

All right! Proof they exist at STL!
Thanks!

Which gate are they using again?
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:33 pm

stlgph wrote:
All right! Proof they exist at STL!
Thanks!

Which gate are they using again?


C27
 
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TWA302
Posts: 436
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:58 pm

symphonicpoet wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
I think one issue is the working group doesn't even have much information yet to share. They just started this a couple months ago. People keep wanting answers that no one has. It is easy to say give us info! But what info do they really want to know that the working group has an answer to? It seems like the people who are super against it just want to shout to shout about something. Until I see proposals, I am not going to get too bent of shape on things. Those are what I will want to see before I decide anything. People just need to be a little patient.


Makes sense that there's not much to say yet, but more transparency will help either diffuse the calls for a vote or, failing that, win voters over. (Assuming there's a solid economic argument in favor of this, that is.) We shall see. I can certainly agree with you that patience is probably the order of the day. Never a bad thing. And keeping the emotional polemic out would also be a nice change. (And harder to do if there's a vote scheduled. Political ads live on that stuff.)

But somebody asked for pictures of Sun Country at STL. I had a bit of a camera failure (zoom got jammed and required some serious technical taps to dislodge.) So the early returns aren't my best work, but . . .

Image
N819SY

Image[url=https://flic.kr/p/2bghpaq]

Thanks!!

Lots more where that came from if you click through, though not much Sun Country. (I did randomly get a Sun Country charter in the background of an apron overview a year or so back, but it's hard to make out.)
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:02 pm

Sun Country's first flight to TPA is sold out tomorrow. Great to see.

https://twitter.com/unaccompflyer/statu ... 1141153792
 
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stl07
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:46 am

^^that was one good looking cake!!
 
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stl07
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:33 pm

Do we get our KEF flight back now that It will be managed by a real airline

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