Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:57 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
E40 now has a Jet Bridge and is in use for Southwest. That puts them at 17 gates now. It is going to be tight down in that E34-40 area though. It also means all the gates for what of concourse D is open is now taken. If they want more gates they will have to open up another section of D. They could probably get about 3 more gates in if they opened it up until the next choke point.


They opened up a little more space for E40. There had been a wall right at the edge of the door for E40. I was curious how they were going to fit in the stands. Looks like it only gets used once or twice a day so far. Next summer though I am sure it will get plenty of use.

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737MAX10
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:32 pm

Sources are indicating everywhere that Icelandair has bought WOW Air. Do we think this means that we will have Keflavik service back in St. Louis sometime soon, given that Icelandair has seasonal service at MCI?
 
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zululima
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:41 am

Everyone will interpret the tea leaves differently, but it's definitely a good thing that this didn't drag out. WOW wasn't coming back one way or the other, but now that Icelandair is unopposed in their home market/business model there is at least the possibility that they could start service. It would seem that WOW has proved the demand, but I wonder what FI will see when they have access to WW's data in terms of potential yield. We still don't know in what way WW will be preserved or integrated as a brand. Too many variables and unknown at this point, which will likely take FI a year or two to adjust to. It's pretty late to be announcing summer seasonal routes anyway, so I would think the best-case scenario would be someone commencing in spring 2020.

I don't know whether to hope that STL is one of the first darts they throw at the map, or if it would be better to get FI service after the new model has been proved and can be operated in a stable fashion. Having two carriers try and fail at STL would be a strong deterrent to any other airlines that are looking, even if it was because of poor management on both accounts. The only thing I can say for sure is that I only want the Icelandair brand to survive and grace St. Louis skies. In the long run, losing WOW might be best for STL if it opens the door for permanent Icelandair flights.
I didn't get a 'Harumph' outta that guy!
 
jplatts
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:48 am

Jshank83 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
E40 now has a Jet Bridge and is in use for Southwest. That puts them at 17 gates now. It is going to be tight down in that E34-40 area though. It also means all the gates for what of concourse D is open is now taken. If they want more gates they will have to open up another section of D. They could probably get about 3 more gates in if they opened it up until the next choke point.


They opened up a little more space for E40. There had been a wall right at the edge of the door for E40. I was curious how they were going to fit in the stands. Looks like it only gets used once or twice a day so far. Next summer though I am sure it will get plenty of use.


WN is going to have its next schedule extension next week, and I think that WN might announce new nonstop routes out of STL in next week's schedule extension since next week's schedule extension will extend the WN flight schedule to August 5, 2019.

I think that WN could add STL-CLT, STL-CVG, STL-JAX, STL-ORF, and STL-PVD nonstop service, and I think that WN could bring back STL-SDF and STL-SLC nonstop service.

Is WN likely to announce any new nonstop routes out of STL in its next schedule extension on November 15th, and if so, which new nonstop routes is WN likely to announce?
 
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stl07
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:16 am

jplatts wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
E40 now has a Jet Bridge and is in use for Southwest. That puts them at 17 gates now. It is going to be tight down in that E34-40 area though. It also means all the gates for what of concourse D is open is now taken. If they want more gates they will have to open up another section of D. They could probably get about 3 more gates in if they opened it up until the next choke point.


They opened up a little more space for E40. There had been a wall right at the edge of the door for E40. I was curious how they were going to fit in the stands. Looks like it only gets used once or twice a day so far. Next summer though I am sure it will get plenty of use.


WN is going to have its next schedule extension next week, and I think that WN might announce new nonstop routes out of STL in next week's schedule extension since next week's schedule extension will extend the WN flight schedule to August 5, 2019.

I think that WN could add STL-CLT, STL-CVG, STL-JAX, STL-ORF, and STL-PVD nonstop service, and I think that WN could bring back STL-SDF and STL-SLC nonstop service.

Is WN likely to announce any new nonstop routes out of STL in its next schedule extension on November 15th, and if so, which new nonstop routes is WN likely to announce?

KEF
 
jplatts
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:28 am

stl07 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
Is WN likely to announce any new nonstop routes out of STL in its next schedule extension on November 15th, and if so, which new nonstop routes is WN likely to announce?

KEF


While STL-KEF nonstop service is within the range of Boeing MAX 8's, WN is unlikely to add STL-KEF nonstop service anytime soon. I think that WN would likely serve BWI nonstop from KEF before adding nonstop service to STL, MDW, or BNA.

While WN already has some 737 MAX 8's with ETOPS capability, WN is currently planning on using only ETOPS-certified 737-800's initially on nonstop flights to and from Hawaii.

The STL-KEF nonstop route is 3200 miles, which is barely within the published range of the Boeing 737-700 (3461 miles) and Boeing 737-800 (3377 miles). I think that the Boeing 737-700 and Boeing 737-800 planes might not have enough range for STL-KEF nonstop service.
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:15 am

stl07 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:

They opened up a little more space for E40. There had been a wall right at the edge of the door for E40. I was curious how they were going to fit in the stands. Looks like it only gets used once or twice a day so far. Next summer though I am sure it will get plenty of use.


WN is going to have its next schedule extension next week, and I think that WN might announce new nonstop routes out of STL in next week's schedule extension since next week's schedule extension will extend the WN flight schedule to August 5, 2019.

I think that WN could add STL-CLT, STL-CVG, STL-JAX, STL-ORF, and STL-PVD nonstop service, and I think that WN could bring back STL-SDF and STL-SLC nonstop service.

Is WN likely to announce any new nonstop routes out of STL in its next schedule extension on November 15th, and if so, which new nonstop routes is WN likely to announce?

KEF


I think this is the obvious add they will make. They do seem to pick up a lot of routes other airlines drop......... :D
 
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symphonicpoet
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:47 am

Well, if WN were going to start service to the EU maybe they might try to make KEF a focus city so that they can do connections to other destinations. Can't imagine any airline would try to stop that. It's just so . . . obvious.

But marginally more seriously, if one were to dream impossible dreams, WN could set up shop in Gander. From there they could get to nearly anywhere. 3M8s should be able to make Rome from Gander and 3M7s Moscow. And Gander is hurting for service, so they just might bite. Not sure Transport Canada would allow what amounts to a fuel stop anymore, but . . . wouldn't be the first time. I'm a little surprised none of the CA LCCs are doing just that. Not as convenient as if it were an EU port of entry, of course, but it might still be possible to make it work.
TW AA MU JL KE DL UA LOF GJS SKW WN
STL JFK FRA GVA CDG IAD ORD PVG SGN NRT ICN ATL SFO HKG MDW LGA BNA
L1011 MD82 83 88 B737 738 741 744 762 772 773 777 A320 E175 C700
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:09 am

I think WN would just codeshare with someone if they wanted a European connection. Couldn’t name who they would be but I think that’s the route they would go. If they did it themselves, I think they would invest in 787/797 but it has to be a really small chance they would even consider it. They don’t even fly to Canada yet, which I find a little disappointing.
 
stlgph
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:40 am

interesting on the other gate add since they still have a some space here and there throughout the day to add flights, BUT at the same time, it's always better to be pro-active than re-active, and it probably comes in handy during irregular operations, etc.

instead of new cities, i'll be interested to see if 2019-2020 brings a strengthening of the existing schedule with increased schedules to existing cities, particularly during the 4-5 p.m. hours, and perhaps a fill out of the 8-9 p.m.(Oakland?) taking it to a full house.

i find the mid-day gap in the schedule to Denver interesting. 2 morning flights then nothing for a good 6 hours or so.
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jplatts
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:44 pm

stlgph wrote:
interesting on the other gate add since they still have a some space here and there throughout the day to add flights, BUT at the same time, it's always better to be pro-active than re-active, and it probably comes in handy during irregular operations, etc.

instead of new cities, i'll be interested to see if 2019-2020 brings a strengthening of the existing schedule with increased schedules to existing cities, particularly during the 4-5 p.m. hours, and perhaps a fill out of the 8-9 p.m.(Oakland?) taking it to a full house.

i find the mid-day gap in the schedule to Denver interesting. 2 morning flights then nothing for a good 6 hours or so.


I agree that WN could increase nonstop service to SEA, PDX, OAK, and PIT out of STL, but I think that WN will probably add a few more routes out of STL to places east of the Mississippi such as STL-CLT, STL-CVG, STL-JAX, STL-ORF, and STL-PVD.
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:40 pm

stlgph wrote:
interesting on the other gate add since they still have a some space here and there throughout the day to add flights, BUT at the same time, it's always better to be pro-active than re-active, and it probably comes in handy during irregular operations, etc.

instead of new cities, i'll be interested to see if 2019-2020 brings a strengthening of the existing schedule with increased schedules to existing cities, particularly during the 4-5 p.m. hours, and perhaps a fill out of the 8-9 p.m.(Oakland?) taking it to a full house.

i find the mid-day gap in the schedule to Denver interesting. 2 morning flights then nothing for a good 6 hours or so.



I fly to OAK/SFO more than any airport. I have been wanting an evening frequecy (or one of those to switch to evening) for a long time.
I think PIT is due for an extra frequency.
Not sure if they would go 2x on PDX (for summer) before adding it to BNA but those loads have been really high all year, especially with AS dropping off it.

Not a whole lot of new cities left to add unless they add a leg (which are hard to predict) like IND/MEM/SDF/CVG
Only other ones I could even see are JAX and one of the Virginia airports based on O&D. Maybe CLT.
 
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symphonicpoet
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:18 am

Jshank83 wrote:
I think WN would just codeshare with someone if they wanted a European connection. Couldn’t name who they would be but I think that’s the route they would go. If they did it themselves, I think they would invest in 787/797 but it has to be a really small chance they would even consider it. They don’t even fly to Canada yet, which I find a little disappointing.


There's a reason I was thinking impossible dream. You're doubtless correct, and that looks like a market they don't want to play in anyway. I gather they didn't even do international at all until they bought AirTran. Might be that the only way they get into Europe is if they buy a carrier that goes there. WOW might have been a nice target, actually, if that were allowed. Which might be why Icelandair bought them.
TW AA MU JL KE DL UA LOF GJS SKW WN
STL JFK FRA GVA CDG IAD ORD PVG SGN NRT ICN ATL SFO HKG MDW LGA BNA
L1011 MD82 83 88 B737 738 741 744 762 772 773 777 A320 E175 C700
 
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symphonicpoet
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:18 am

Jshank83 wrote:
I think WN would just codeshare with someone if they wanted a European connection. Couldn’t name who they would be but I think that’s the route they would go. If they did it themselves, I think they would invest in 787/797 but it has to be a really small chance they would even consider it. They don’t even fly to Canada yet, which I find a little disappointing.


There's a reason I was thinking impossible dream. You're doubtless correct, and that looks like a market they don't want to play in anyway. I gather they didn't even do international at all until they bought AirTran. Might be that the only way they get into Europe is if they buy a carrier that goes there. WOW might have been a nice target, actually, if that were allowed. Which might be why Icelandair bought them.
TW AA MU JL KE DL UA LOF GJS SKW WN
STL JFK FRA GVA CDG IAD ORD PVG SGN NRT ICN ATL SFO HKG MDW LGA BNA
L1011 MD82 83 88 B737 738 741 744 762 772 773 777 A320 E175 C700
 
BHMNONREV
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:34 pm

Shifting gears a bit, I was looking at the AA Mad Dog thread and potential last flights for the T-Tail in STL. Appears at this point it will be some time in the summer of 2019, not sure if DFW or ORD will have the honor at this point. Should know something more definitive when the summer schedule comes out.

Although this schedule is still a long ways off, post-Labor Day 2019 shows the following for AA:

DFW - 7 x 738
ORD - 3 x 738, 2 x CR700, 1 x E75
CLT - 1 x 320, 3 x 319, 2 x CR900
PHL - 1 x 738, 2 x E75, 1 x CR700, 1 x ER145
LGA - 4 x E75, 1 x ER140
DCA - 2 x E75, 3 x CR200
MIA - 2 x 319, 1 x E75
LAX - 2 x 319
PHX - 2 x 319

Still looks to be an extremely robust operation, 41 daily flights with a large jump in seats with the up gauges to the 738 vs the M80 as well as the E75 increases over the ER145/CR200.
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:12 pm

BHMNONREV wrote:
Shifting gears a bit, I was looking at the AA Mad Dog thread and potential last flights for the T-Tail in STL. Appears at this point it will be some time in the summer of 2019, not sure if DFW or ORD will have the honor at this point. Should know something more definitive when the summer schedule comes out.

Although this schedule is still a long ways off, post-Labor Day 2019 shows the following for AA:

DFW - 7 x 738
ORD - 3 x 738, 2 x CR700, 1 x E75
CLT - 1 x 320, 3 x 319, 2 x CR900
PHL - 1 x 738, 2 x E75, 1 x CR700, 1 x ER145
LGA - 4 x E75, 1 x ER140
DCA - 2 x E75, 3 x CR200
MIA - 2 x 319, 1 x E75
LAX - 2 x 319
PHX - 2 x 319

Still looks to be an extremely robust operation, 41 daily flights with a large jump in seats with the up gauges to the 738 vs the M80 as well as the E75 increases over the ER145/CR200.


I am sure the schedule will change a lot between now and then but just for comparison to this years both Labor day. 40 flights peak.

I didn't keep track of the different kind of 737

Charlotte NC (CLT) 3xA319, 1x737, 2xCRJ900
Chicago IL (ORD) 1xMD8, 2x737, 1x E175, 2xCRJ700
Dallas TX (DFW) 4xMD8, 2x737, 1x319
Los Angeles (LAX) 2x A319
Miami FL (MIA) 2xA319, 1xE175
New York NY (LGA) 3xE175, 1xE140
Philadelphia PA (PHL) 1x319, 1xE175, 3xRJ700
Phoenix (PHX) 1xA319, 1x737
Washington DC (DCA) 2xE175, 3xE145
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:45 pm

In the airport commission meeting on Wednesday the airport director said they have talked to Icelandair about picking up the WOW route. The money they offered to give WOW will be available to Icelandair.
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:44 am

Also, The traffic study for T2 is done. They were presented with a few different options. One is paving over the grassy area just to the east of the terminal on the lower level. They can move buses into that space and free up room for cars. They also could remove the parking for (I think the customs people) in front of the Intl arrivals and add more loading there. More expensive options include adding new entrances to the parking garage. They will have a full presentation to the board during next weeks airport commission meeting.

There was a pretty intense discussion about the current traffic situation in T2 towards the end of the meeting Wednesday and how issues are being handled currently.
 
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Runway28L
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:00 am

Jshank83 wrote:
I fly to OAK/SFO more than any airport. I have been wanting an evening frequecy (or one of those to switch to evening) for a long time.
I think PIT is due for an extra frequency.


jplatts wrote:
I agree that WN could increase nonstop service to SEA, PDX, OAK, and PIT out of STL, but I think that WN will probably add a few more routes out of STL to places east of the Mississippi such as STL-CLT, STL-CVG, STL-JAX, STL-ORF, and STL-PVD.

STL-PIT in November is running 2x daily on Fri/Sat/Sun and 1x daily Mon/Tue/Wed. I would expect it to go up to 2x daily for good in the near future. Loads have been pretty solid, even when flights were running on a B738 this summer.
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Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:47 am

Runway28L wrote:
STL-PIT in November is running 2x daily on Fri/Sat/Sun and 1x daily Mon/Tue/Wed. I would expect it to go up to 2x daily for good in the near future. Loads have been pretty solid, even when flights were running on a B738 this summer.


It is only 2x a few extra days because of Thanksgiving. The rest of November it’s just 1x daily. But I agree about it going up soon. I could see on the next extension. They ran is 2x on a Sunday’s already in parts of summer/fall. Every other airport that close is 2x or more. PHL went 3x.
 
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stl07
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:39 pm

Some fairly significant reductions on AA I would say
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:19 pm

stl07 wrote:
Some fairly significant reductions on AA I would say


A little surprised to see AA going down at LGA (although it is just dropping a 50 seater) when Delta is going up. But I like Delta better anyway. Obviously, they could still add some back that far out if needed.

YOY difference March is

LGA
2018 3x175, 1x145
2019 3x175

MIA
2018 1x319 2x175
2019 1x319 1x175

DFW
Stays at 8x like last March and is all mainline. Last march had 2 RJs on it. So seats there should be up.

CLT
Same frequency at 6 but 2 319s subbed out for 900s.

ORD
2018 4xMD8, 1x737, 1xE175, 1xCRJ700
2019 4x737, 3x700
Basically the same with the 737 seats. Maybe 20ish less a day.

LAX
Goes from 2x319 to 2x737

DCA
2018 1xCRJ700, 3xE145
2019 1x175, 3x200

PHL
2018 1xA319, 2xE175, 1xE145
2019 2x175 2x700

PHX
3x to 2x. (I think this will end up being 3. It was 4x on some days in March last year.)

Like mentioned before all subject to change still. I would expect some plane changes still. Frequency changes wouldn't shock me, we are still a ways out.
 
stlgph
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:42 pm

A change in March/April isn't anything really to worry about - it's the general trends over time that should be of concern or of note. For example, the more concerning thing for LGA service, to me, is a few years ago, even in the mini-hub days, there were 5, sometimes 6 daily flights, all mainline. It'd be great to see something of that nature come back into realization, although the wait might be 5-10 years off until the LGA terminal rebuild is complete and there are new gate configurations. Of course back then we didn't have Southwest on the route, either.

March of course is spring break and this year Easter is in April so the habitual travel patterns will change as people go more north and south than they do east and west. As noted, it's still a ways out yet and as we know, American doesn't seem to be too shy about posting a schedule then changing it.
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STLflyer
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:59 pm

Anyone know when these changes are loaded in their system? I’m booked STL-DFW-EZE, SCL-MIA-STL next April and don’t have any schedule changes showing yet but I’m expecting something to eventually change.
 
kavok
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:09 am

If the WOW / FI merge goes through, there will be a lot of North American destinations that currently have both services that likely will be consolidated down to one. This consolidation should free up some birds that could go back to STL.
 
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stl07
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:08 am

Looks like Sun country has expanded their schedule

We got cut
 
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stl07
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:18 am

Not completely aviation related but the statewide embarrassment looks to be finished
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/met ... 5a7eb.html
 
STLflyer
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:09 am

stl07 wrote:
Looks like Sun country has expanded their schedule

We got cut


That didn't last long
 
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stl07
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:23 am

STLflyer wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Looks like Sun country has expanded their schedule

We got cut


That didn't last long

Suprise, Suprise... You can't fly as an unknown carrier with zero advertising to destinations already served by multiple carriers, regardless of how good you claim your "Minnesotan Hospitality" is
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:27 am

stl07 wrote:
STLflyer wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Looks like Sun country has expanded their schedule

We got cut


That didn't last long

Suprise, Suprise... You can't fly as an unknown carrier with zero advertising to destinations already served by multiple carriers, regardless of how good you claim your "Minnesotan Hospitality" is


Did it say we got cut somewhere? I have been under the impression from the start that these two routes were only seasonal. Their season has always been planned to end when it is scheduled to end. If they are going to run summer routes I would expect some kind of announcement more than a schedule update since it will be a new route for them. Other cities routes end to TPA and RSW the same time ours do. All of Nashville’s routes end when ours do except MSP also. They just haven’t loaded all of their summer schedule yet.

TPA just started and their first flight was sold out.
 
pmanni1
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:26 am

stl07 wrote:
Looks like Sun country has expanded their schedule

We got cut

Quick way to spread fake news. SY has no routes from/to any city scheduled past April 2019.
 
stlgph
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:15 pm

June 27, 2018: "Sun Country announces new seasonal nonstop service from St. Louis"
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stl07
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:28 pm

pmanni1 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Looks like Sun country has expanded their schedule

We got cut

Quick way to spread fake news. SY has no routes from/to any city scheduled past April 2019.

Look at the other routes like msp bna

I made that comment because other seasonal routes didn't get cut
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:38 pm

stl07 wrote:
pmanni1 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Looks like Sun country has expanded their schedule

We got cut

Quick way to spread fake news. SY has no routes from/to any city scheduled past April 2019.

Look at the other routes like msp bna

I made that comment because other seasonal routes didn't get cut


BNA-TPA/MSY/RSW/MCO and MSN-TPA/RSW and DFW-RSW/TPA all end in April like our routes to RSW/TPA end. Hence seasonal, lots of seasonal routes end when ours does.

BNA-MSP isn't a seasonal route like the Florida routes.
 
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stl07
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:27 am

Jshank83 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
pmanni1 wrote:
Quick way to spread fake news. SY has no routes from/to any city scheduled past April 2019.

Look at the other routes like msp bna

I made that comment because other seasonal routes didn't get cut


BNA-TPA/MSY/RSW/MCO and MSN-TPA/RSW and DFW-RSW/TPA all end in April like our routes to RSW/TPA end. Hence seasonal, lots of seasonal routes end when ours does.

BNA-MSP isn't a seasonal route like the Florida routes.


"The new seasonal routes will go to Fort Myers, Miami, New Orleans, Orlando, Tampa and Minneapolis/St. Paul."http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/38881348/sun-country-airlines-bringing-6-new-nonstop-flights-to-nashville-airport
 
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stl07
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:40 am

^^ DFW-TPA got extended
 
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stl07
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:12 am

Destin has gone 11x a week
Wow! this is Allegiant we are talking about
 
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stl07
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:24 am

Orlando 5x
Jax 3x!
Clearwater/St.pete 5x
Punta Gorda 4x
MYR down to 2x
And Phoenix is cut? or not yet loaded
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:16 am

stl07 wrote:
^^ DFW-TPA got extended


For a couple extra weeks in April. Not much longer. It might have been that long to begin with.

And maybe BNA-MSP got extended to year round (or the paper was wrong). Either way a lot of seasonal routes end in in April. I wouldn’t think a decision on if they are cut or not have been made when they are this new (especially TPA). So saying they are cut is premature. I’m not reading that much into it.
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:23 am

stl07 wrote:
Orlando 5x
Jax 3x!
Clearwater/St.pete 5x
Punta Gorda 4x
MYR down to 2x
And Phoenix is cut? or not yet loaded


Nice!

Phoenix doesn't run in summer. Last year it only ran until April also.

Comparing June it looks like everything is mostly the same as last year. MYR/JAX flip flop who was 3x and 2x and VPS goes up from 7x to 9x. (I only count it twice on Wed/Sat in June). The rest stays the same. Still a little disappointed there are no new cities. Sarasota would have been nice to get in on that.

There also will be overnights for the first time. The VPS flight on Saturday night gets in after 9 pm and the Sunday morning flight leaves at 6 am. Not sure if that means a plane will be based here or they just are doing an overnight. I know overnights aren't usually their style.
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:28 pm

Frontier extended their schedule

PUJ stays 3x (which we knew based on Apple vacations schedule)
CUN stays daily (same as above)
Denver stays daily
LAS stays daily
MCO stays daily

PBI season ends April 28
JAX season ends April 29


Picked around at a few other routes to see if anything else popped up but it didn't. Frontier isn't the easiest to figure out new routes though.
 
777PHX
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:57 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
PHX
3x to 2x. (I think this will end up being 3. It was 4x on some days in March last year.)

Like mentioned before all subject to change still. I would expect some plane changes still. Frequency changes wouldn't shock me, we are still a ways out.


I live in PHX and grew up in STL. Those flights are always full and seem to command a premium over connecting somewhere. I'd be shocked if they went down 2x daily except maybe in the dead of the summer.

March is the busiest month of the year for Sky Harbor, for obvious reasons.
 
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TWA302
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:14 pm

stl07 wrote:
Destin has gone 11x a week
Wow! this is Allegiant we are talking about


11? Where did you find this? I thought it was 9x and THAT is a ton IMHO
 
cvgComair
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:21 pm

TWA302 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Destin has gone 11x a week
Wow! this is Allegiant we are talking about


11? Where did you find this? I thought it was 9x and THAT is a ton IMHO

I'm seeing BLV-VPS as 9x/wk and CVG-VPS as 11x/wk.
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:59 pm

TWA302 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Destin has gone 11x a week
Wow! this is Allegiant we are talking about


11? Where did you find this? I thought it was 9x and THAT is a ton IMHO


Assuming WN keeps their same schedule as last year.

11x BLV-VPS
8x STL-ECP (this was up 1x on Saturday this year from previous)
1x STL-PNS

20x a week to the panhandle. With all the people that make that drive 20x a week seems crazy on top of that.

WN comes out Thursday so we will see then what it ends up being.
 
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stl07
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:02 pm

yep, I was thinking of CVG not STL. 9x is still a ton of service. Disappointed we didn't get any new fights considering almost everyone else got one
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:07 pm

Airport actually released something early for once. Progress. Although some of their notes are spring to summer not YOY (like BOS)

https://www.flystl.com/newsroom/stl-new ... ummer-2019

BOS 5x (+1) really trying to keep everyone else out of this route
DTW 3x (+1)
BNA 4x (+1)
CLE 3x (+1)
DEN 6x (+1)
PNS 2x Saturday only (+1) Interesting to have that route only run one day a week but its 2x that day.
ECP 3x on Saturday (+1)
CUN stays daily which is more than the Saturday only last summer.
MBJ is back 1x weekly after a short break in APR/MAY
CHS looks like it went from daily to just SAT/SUN

Overall up
122 weekday +6
127 Sunday +7 Sunday departures from last year.

I'll have the frequency update out later today.
 
maps4ltd
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:02 pm

stl07 wrote:
Destin has gone 11x a week
Wow! this is Allegiant we are talking about


Last night on Fox 2 there was a "You Paid for It" segment where the host investigated Midamerica and Runway 11/29 and Lambert. If you watch Fox 2, you'll know that this is guy who goes around trying to prove things are corporate boondoggles and wastes of taxpayer money.

Anyway, they went to Midamerica when two Allegiant flights were arriving. Multiple times previously on the "You Paid for It" segment, the guy grilled BLV as a total money-burner. But this time, it looked like part of the E concourse at STL at 3 pm. It was ridiculously busy. The airport director even stuck it to him multiple times.

There's no denying that BLV is becoming successful. I drove by there the other day on my way to Mt. Vernon, and the parking lot was near full.
 
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stl07
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:08 pm

maps4ltd wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Destin has gone 11x a week
Wow! this is Allegiant we are talking about


Last night on Fox 2 there was a "You Paid for It" segment where the host investigated Midamerica and Runway 11/29 and Lambert. If you watch Fox 2, you'll know that this is guy who goes around trying to prove things are corporate boondoggles and wastes of taxpayer money.

Anyway, they went to Midamerica when two Allegiant flights were arriving. Multiple times previously on the "You Paid for It" segment, the guy grilled BLV as a total money-burner. But this time, it looked like part of the E concourse at STL at 3 pm. It was ridiculously busy. The airport director even stuck it to him multiple times.

There's no denying that BLV is becoming successful. I drove by there the other day on my way to Mt. Vernon, and the parking lot was near full.

I saw that too. I was pretty surprised to see it that full.
 
maps4ltd
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:13 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Airport actually released something early for once. Progress. Although some of their notes are spring to summer not YOY (like BOS)

https://www.flystl.com/newsroom/stl-new ... ummer-2019

BOS 5x (+1) really trying to keep everyone else out of this route
DTW 3x (+1)
BNA 4x (+1)
CLE 3x (+1)
DEN 6x (+1)
PNS 2x Saturday only (+1) Interesting to have that route only run one day a week but its 2x that day.
ECP 3x on Saturday (+1)
CUN stays daily which is more than the Saturday only last summer.
MBJ is back 1x weekly after a short break in APR/MAY
CHS looks like it went from daily to just SAT/SUN

Overall up

122 weekday +6
127 Sunday +7 Sunday departures from last year.

I'll have the frequency update out later today.


I'm still surprised DL hasn't jumped on BOS. Even B6 might look at it. Jesus, 5x Southwest 737s? That's a captive market, and I've seen WN push fares pretty high on this route.

DTW adds don't surprise me, what with the number of St. Louisans going to their Michigan lake houses. Sure, a lot of them drive, but still...

Damn, they really are building up BNA significantly! I think Lambert still (slightly) outpaces them, though.

I never thought STL could support 3 daily 737s (at least 400 seats!) to CLE, but I'm sure WN knows best.

They certainly are capitalizing on DEN! I have friends who literally go there every month, and almost everyone I know flies WN to DEN 100% of the time.

PNS and ECP--multiple daily frequencies on Saturday! Just make it 3x weekly or daily, already. The amount of St. Louisans who go to Destin is astonishing.

CUN, daily to more effectively compete with F9's (Apple Vacations-bolstered) service.

MBJ--doesn't surprise me.

CHS--this is interesting, especially seeing CLE get 3x daily. I would have thought CHS a bigger connecting/O&D market.

Thanks for the report!

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