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Tn55337
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:44 pm

If they keep selling 748's like this it might be time to up the production rate.
 
CX747
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:04 pm

Nice to see that not only were four more 747-8Fs added to the order book but they are spread between two different customers.
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MileHFL400
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:28 pm

3 years production sold in one year!
Thanks and best Regards
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LoganTheBogan
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:41 pm

Delta 15x A220-300s, as well as conversions from the A220-100 - 90 A220s on order (40 -100/50 -300)

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... craft.html
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N14AZ
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:50 pm

LoganTheBogan wrote:
Delta 15x A220-300s, as well as conversions from the A220-100 - 90 A220s on order (40 -100/50 -300)

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... craft.html

But this is not a 2018-order, as far as I know (spontaneously I thought it is one of these Q5-orders but I think it is not). Do we already have a 2019-orders-thread?
 
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LoganTheBogan
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:03 pm

N14AZ wrote:
LoganTheBogan wrote:
Delta 15x A220-300s, as well as conversions from the A220-100 - 90 A220s on order (40 -100/50 -300)

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... craft.html

But this is not a 2018-order, as far as I know (spontaneously I thought it is one of these Q5-orders but I think it is not). Do we already have a 2019-orders-thread?


i was going to post it in the 2019 thread as I thought we had one but I can't find it and this one isn't locked.....
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:37 pm

LoganTheBogan wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
LoganTheBogan wrote:
Delta 15x A220-300s, as well as conversions from the A220-100 - 90 A220s on order (40 -100/50 -300)

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... craft.html

But this is not a 2018-order, as far as I know (spontaneously I thought it is one of these Q5-orders but I think it is not). Do we already have a 2019-orders-thread?


i was going to post it in the 2019 thread as I thought we had one but I can't find it and this one isn't locked.....


viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1412183
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:03 pm

Airbus finishes 2018 with 747 net orders

https://twitter.com/airbus/status/10830 ... 12864?s=21
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qf789
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:09 pm

N14AZ wrote:
LoganTheBogan wrote:
Delta 15x A220-300s, as well as conversions from the A220-100 - 90 A220s on order (40 -100/50 -300)

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... craft.html

But this is not a 2018-order, as far as I know (spontaneously I thought it is one of these Q5-orders but I think it is not). Do we already have a 2019-orders-thread?


The order was booked in 2018
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LaunchDetected
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:10 pm

qf789 wrote:
Airbus finishes 2018 with 747 net orders

https://twitter.com/airbus/status/10830 ... 12864?s=21


This sentence sounds good.
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N14AZ
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:27 pm

qf789 wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
But this is not a 2018-order, as far as I know (spontaneously I thought it is one of these Q5-orders but I think it is not). Do we already have a 2019-orders-thread?


The order was booked in 2018

Ha! That’s what I thought from the beginning but Airbus‘ press release was from today and didn’t mention in which year they will book the order.
LaunchDetected wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Airbus finishes 2018 with 747 net orders

https://twitter.com/airbus/status/10830 ... 12864?s=21


This sentence sounds good.

For what purpose did Airbus order this 747-net? If they are interested in a 747 wouldn’t it be easier to acquire one in Marana rather than using a net?

Sorry, couldn’t resist...
 
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AECM
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:46 pm

So in 2018:

Airbus

747 Net Orders
800 Deliveries
7577 Order Backlog

Boeing:

893 Net Orders
806 Deliveries
5873 Order Backlog
 
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qf789
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:12 pm

Airbus December orders included

2 x A333 undisclosed 20 Dec
50 x A320neo, 17 x A321neo undisclosed 21 Dec
75 x A320neo, 25 x A321neo, Avalon
80 X A320neo, undisclosed 26 Dec
60 x A220, Moxy
4 x A321neo, undisclosed 29 Dec
60 x A220 Jetblue
15 x A220 Delta
3 x A359, 1 x A35K, undisclosed, 31 Dec
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Momo1435
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:13 pm

Airbus December 2018 orders.

https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/market/ ... eries.html

UNDISCLOSED - A330-300 - 2

UNDISCLOSED - A320neo - 50
UNDISCLOSED - A321neo - 17

AVOLON - A320neo - 75
AVOLON - A321neo - 25

UNDISCLOSED - A320neo - 80
MOXY - A220-300 - 60
UNDISCLOSED - A321neo - 4
DELTA AIR LINES - A220-300 - 15
JETBLUE AIRWAYS - A220-300 - 60

UNDISCLOSED - A350-900 - 3
UNDISCLOSED - A350-1000 - 1


Cancelations
10x A380 (the undisclosed order, which was the former Hong Kong Airlines order)
4x A330-900 (from an undisclosed customer, could be a conversion to the A350)
10x A320neo
1x A321ceo


Net orders for 2019 per model

A220-300 - 135
A319ceo - 2
A319neo - 22
A320ceo - 7
A320neo - 373
A321ceo - 1
A321neo - 136
A330-200 - 6
A330-300 - 3
A330-800 - 2
A330-900 - 16
A350-900 - 39
A350-1000 - 1
A380 - 4
 
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gennadius
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:33 pm

seabosdca wrote:
Let the speculation begin!

1 x 748F: Silk Way
3 x 748F: Volga-Dnepr or subsidiary
9 x 777F: Lufthansa Cargo (remaining MD-11 replacement; hours on their MD-11 fleet are getting crazy high) or FedEx
4 x 777-300ER: BA? TK? AF/KL?


I like the 748F orders flipped, as ABC has been firming their 20 MoU commitment in ones and twos usually, but that's just my feeling.

The 3 could be Silk Way, as they were talking in late 2017 about ordering 2 or 3 I believe, and were making noise this past year about needing many more over time. I could also see it being Cargolux, as they had been looking for capacity and claimed to have plans to order a few years ago.

It would be really nice if one or both was for a new operator.

I hope the 777Fs are not for LH Cargo, just because I like to continue to see that livery on those MD-11s. Reality being what it is, it very easily could be for them, although 9 would mean they are potentially hanging on to the 2 or 3 youngest frames, or taking a slight reduction in capacity.
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seabosdca
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:45 pm

gennadius wrote:
I hope the 777Fs are not for LH Cargo, just because I like to continue to see that livery on those MD-11s. Reality being what it is, it very easily could be for them, although 9 would mean they are potentially hanging on to the 2 or 3 youngest frames, or taking a slight reduction in capacity.


After their previous 2 x 777F top-up order, I think an order for 9 more 777F would leave just one MD-11 unaccounted for. I could see them planning to make that difference up through higher 777 utilization.
 
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gennadius
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:54 pm

seabosdca wrote:
gennadius wrote:
I hope the 777Fs are not for LH Cargo, just because I like to continue to see that livery on those MD-11s. Reality being what it is, it very easily could be for them, although 9 would mean they are potentially hanging on to the 2 or 3 youngest frames, or taking a slight reduction in capacity.


After their previous 2 x 777F top-up order, I think an order for 9 more 777F would leave just one MD-11 unaccounted for. I could see them planning to make that difference up through higher 777 utilization.


Ah, yes, I forgot about that 2 frame order earlier this year. Thanks!
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2175301
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:39 pm

diverdave wrote:
george77300 wrote:
Boeing Final 2018 Numbers

Boeing (Final 2018):
1090 Gross Orders
893 Net Orders (675 x B737, 18 x B747, 40 x B767, 51 x B777, 109 x B787)


Please go back and correct your figures. We all know here that the 747 and 767 are dead, so plainly you have made an error. :D

David


No Error. Boeing long ago discovered that they have a market to produce new "undead" "zombie" aircraft; versus resurrection of the ones that already lived a long life.

So, while the 747 and 767 are "dead"; new production of these zombies cannot be killed off without magical means... There are a wide variety of movies and TV shows that describe the general issue of zombies and what works in movies to eliminate them. I don't see any of those methods being practically implemented for these zombie aircraft.

I'm not sure how Airbus or other vendors can compete with a company that has found a steady market for zombies...

Have a great day,
 
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:07 am

LaunchDetected wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Airbus finishes 2018 with 747 net orders

https://twitter.com/airbus/status/10830 ... 12864?s=21


This sentence sounds good.

It’s even better when you go back to how many net orders they had at the end of November:

george77300 wrote:
Airbus (November 2018):
439 Gross Orders
380 Net Orders (301 x A320, 14 x A380, 36 x A350, 29 x A330)


You couldn’t script this!

V/F
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jbs2886
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:00 am

VirginFlyer wrote:
LaunchDetected wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Airbus finishes 2018 with 747 net orders

https://twitter.com/airbus/status/10830 ... 12864?s=21


This sentence sounds good.

It’s even better when you go back to how many net orders they had at the end of November:

george77300 wrote:
Airbus (November 2018):
439 Gross Orders
380 Net Orders (301 x A320, 14 x A380, 36 x A350, 29 x A330)


You couldn’t script this!

V/F


Pretty impressive for Airbus - especially in light of where they were one month ago. But (getting ready for the flaming), on a more "apples to apples" comparison (i.e., excluding A220 because Boeing doesn't have a competitor), Airbus had 612 orders. Its all marketing anyways, so it'll only be the Airbus fanboys who get triggered. There are reasonable arguments for including the A220 for marketing purposes, but also reasonable arguments against (such as Airbus doesn't fully own the A220).
 
juliuswong
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:19 am

Momo1435 wrote:
Airbus December 2018 orders.

https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/market/ ... eries.html

UNDISCLOSED - A330-300 - 2

UNDISCLOSED - A320neo - 50
UNDISCLOSED - A321neo - 17

AVOLON - A320neo - 75
AVOLON - A321neo - 25

UNDISCLOSED - A320neo - 80
MOXY - A220-300 - 60
UNDISCLOSED - A321neo - 4
DELTA AIR LINES - A220-300 - 15
JETBLUE AIRWAYS - A220-300 - 60

UNDISCLOSED - A350-900 - 3
UNDISCLOSED - A350-1000 - 1


Cancelations
10x A380 (the undisclosed order, which was the former Hong Kong Airlines order)
4x A330-900 (from an undisclosed customer, could be a conversion to the A350)
10x A320neo
1x A321ceo


Net orders for 2019 per model

A220-300 - 135
A319ceo - 2
A319neo - 22
A320ceo - 7
A320neo - 373
A321ceo - 1
A321neo - 136
A330-200 - 6
A330-300 - 3
A330-800 - 2
A330-900 - 16
A350-900 - 39
A350-1000 - 1
A380 - 4

Thanks Momo1435 for the breakdown. I think you mean "Net orders for 2018 per model"

I am surprised with the order for two A330ceo in December 2018. Who can this be? A330ceo has proven itself it is not dead yet last year with 9 orders. AirAsia X's 34 new A330neo order is not firmed up I can see.

Good for Airbus to take into account of 10 A380 cancellation in 2018 to offset EK's 14 new order.

The 4 A339neo cancellation should be from WOWair.

Stellar performance for both Airbus and Boeing despite the current economic environment, notably the trade tariff war and change of guard at Airbus.
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Geoff1947
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:11 am

jbs2886 wrote:
VirginFlyer wrote:
LaunchDetected wrote:

This sentence sounds good.

It’s even better when you go back to how many net orders they had at the end of November:

george77300 wrote:
Airbus (November 2018):
439 Gross Orders
380 Net Orders (301 x A320, 14 x A380, 36 x A350, 29 x A330)


You couldn’t script this!

V/F


Pretty impressive for Airbus - especially in light of where they were one month ago. But (getting ready for the flaming), on a more "apples to apples" comparison (i.e., excluding A220 because Boeing doesn't have a competitor), Airbus had 612 orders. Its all marketing anyways, so it'll only be the Airbus fanboys who get triggered. There are reasonable arguments for including the A220 for marketing purposes, but also reasonable arguments against (such as Airbus doesn't fully own the A220).


You can play the “apples to apples” game many ways. Try taking out Boeing’s freighters for example.

Geoff
 
jupiter2
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:24 am

Geoff1947 wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
VirginFlyer wrote:
It’s even better when you go back to how many net orders they had at the end of November:



You couldn’t script this!

V/F


Pretty impressive for Airbus - especially in light of where they were one month ago. But (getting ready for the flaming), on a more "apples to apples" comparison (i.e., excluding A220 because Boeing doesn't have a competitor), Airbus had 612 orders. Its all marketing anyways, so it'll only be the Airbus fanboys who get triggered. There are reasonable arguments for including the A220 for marketing purposes, but also reasonable arguments against (such as Airbus doesn't fully own the A220).


You can play the “apples to apples” game many ways. Try taking out Boeing’s freighters for example.



Geoff


Why ? Boeing at least build them and they are derivatives of existing models.
 
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metalinyoni
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:10 am

What drives the huge uptick in the Dec numbers from the OEM's? Is it internally driven i.e sales staff working extra hard to get orders in or is it customer driven i.e need to get orders in before year end etc? Or a bit of both?

If it is internally driven is it not risky to leave it so late and risk not getting the orders in Dec?
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:21 am

metalinyoni wrote:
What drives the huge uptick in the Dec numbers from the OEM's? Is it internally driven i.e sales staff working extra hard to get orders in or is it customer driven i.e need to get orders in before year end etc? Or a bit of both?

If it is internally driven is it not risky to leave it so late and risk not getting the orders in Dec?


Most likely validity of the offer expires on December 31st. Further sales might work extra hard to achieve their (personal) targets set, and clients may want to place an order to have respective commitments in their balance sheets. Certainly always individual reasons but a high likelyhood of it being one of the three mentioned ones above.

Flight reports some changes to Airbus´ order book:

Air Cote d´Ivoire minus 2 A320neo, plus 2 A319neo
Etihad Airways minus 10 A320neo (but the A321neo and A350 orders remain intact)
LATAM minus 4 A350-1000, plus 4 A350-900
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A343/346, A359, A380,AT4,AT7,B712, B732/3/4/5/7/8/9,B742/4,B752/3, B762/763,B772/77W,CR2/7/9/K,ER3/4,E70/75/90/95, F50/70/100,M11,L15,SF3,S20, AR8/1, 142/143,... 330.860 miles and counting.
 
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:50 am

metalinyoni wrote:
What drives the huge uptick in the Dec numbers from the OEM's? Is it internally driven i.e sales staff working extra hard to get orders in or is it customer driven i.e need to get orders in before year end etc? Or a bit of both?

If it is internally driven is it not risky to leave it so late and risk not getting the orders in Dec?


I suspect both OEM's have relationships (i.e with lessors) where if need be they can generate an order for the sake of reaching minimum sales targets.

For example Airbus booked a relatively large order for A320's with a lessor in December. It could be the case the carrot for the lessor was an additional discount for a large number of aircraft and for Airbus a large order to meet sales targets. If Airbus had a good sales year the order may not have materialised.

I suspect the contracts would be quite loose (relatively speaking) with many out clauses.
Last edited by 81819 on Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
chiad
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:51 am

jupiter2 wrote:
Geoff1947 wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:

Pretty impressive for Airbus - especially in light of where they were one month ago. But (getting ready for the flaming), on a more "apples to apples" comparison (i.e., excluding A220 because Boeing doesn't have a competitor), Airbus had 612 orders. Its all marketing anyways, so it'll only be the Airbus fanboys who get triggered. There are reasonable arguments for including the A220 for marketing purposes, but also reasonable arguments against (such as Airbus doesn't fully own the A220).


You can play the “apples to apples” game many ways. Try taking out Boeing’s freighters for example.



Geoff


Why ? Boeing at least build them and they are derivatives of existing models.


Just like Geoff said; You can play the “apples to apples” game many ways.
But as soon as you do that it gets messy.
So referring to not including the A220 because (Quote:) "Boeing doesn't have a competitor", we're already on quite shaky ground.
 
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Momo1435
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:05 am

travelhound wrote:
metalinyoni wrote:
What drives the huge uptick in the Dec numbers from the OEM's? Is it internally driven i.e sales staff working extra hard to get orders in or is it customer driven i.e need to get orders in before year end etc? Or a bit of both?

If it is internally driven is it not risky to leave it so late and risk not getting the orders in Dec?


I suspect both OEM's have relationships (i.e with lessors) where if need be they can generate an order for the sake of reaching minimum sales targets.

For example Airbus booked a relatively large order for A320's with a lessor in December. It could be the case the carrot for the lessor was an additional discount for a large number of aircraft and for Airbus a large order to meet sales targets. If Airbus had a good sales year the order may not have materialised.

I suspect the contracts would be quite loose (relatively speaking) with many out clauses.

I don't think it's that loose, these leasing companies are financial giants, they won't act as order enhancers for Airbus or Boeing, unless they get a very good deal out of it. But then it also makes sense for them to place these orders in December.

Most orders booked in December were already announced earlier as MoU or LOIs. There might be financial incentives as in extra discounts that could expire if the order is not booked in the same year as the initial MoU.
 
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Polot
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:12 am

juliuswong wrote:
The 4 A339neo cancellation should be from WOWair.

WOW was going to lease the A339 (from CIT’s order). It would be a bit odd for the lessor to just cancel part of their order rather than try and remarket aircraft unless they have been really struggling to place A339s.
 
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Momo1435
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:42 pm

It's a bit unclear with the undisclosed A339 orders and cancellations in 2018.

An unidentified order for 10 A330-900s was placed on June 4, bringing the total unidentified orders to 14. 4 of those 14 have been identified in December as Middle East Airlines. The remaining 10 would have been the June order. But as there were also 4 unidentified cancellations in December there are only 6 unidentified orders left. So this would suggest that 4 of the of order in June would have already been cancelled in 2018.

In August 2018 BOC Aviation announced that they had ordered 8 A330-900neo's for Lion Air, bringing their total order with Airbus to 10 as they had previously already ordered 2. As BOC is known for taking over orders from customers it's most likely that Lion Air was behind the June order. Then in August BOC took over 8 of these orders from Lion Air without being identified as the customer. It's possible that BOC cancelled a part of this order in December, but that would also mean that Lion Air has cancelled part of their lease order with BOC.

BOC is also rumored to be behind the December A350 orders, so it could mean that after Lion Air cancelled their lease BOC converted their A330neo orders to the A350, for which it might be easier to find new customers.

Since it's all happened as UNDISCLOSED orders we might never know what happened. We have to keep an eye open which customer is revealed to be behind the unidentified A330-900 and the new A350 orders. And we will find out sooner or later how many A330neo Lion Air is actually going to lease through BOC and take directly from Airbus.
 
juliuswong
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:38 pm

Also worth noting the undisclosed 130 A320neo. Who could they be?? 0
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Momo1435
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:46 pm

juliuswong wrote:
Also worth noting the undisclosed 130 A320neo. Who could they be?? 0

From the Reuters reports from last week these are most likely these lessors:

80 from Chinese leasing company ICBC
50 A320neo and 17 A321 from Japanese leasing company SMBC Aviation


The large unidentified 125x 737 MAX order is more mysterious. I believe that Boeing said it was from a new customer when it was announced as one of the unidentified MoUs at the Farnborough Airshow. But I haven't seen any clues on who it could be.
 
SC430
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:57 pm

AECM wrote:
So in 2018:

Airbus

747 Net Orders
800 Deliveries
7577 Order Backlog

Boeing:

893 Net Orders
806 Deliveries
5873 Order Backlog


2018 translated into estimated value using list prices:

Orders:

Boeing 139 Billion

Airbus 78 Billion

Deliveries:

Boeing 130 Billion

Airbus 78 Billion

Backlogs - Airbus deliveries do not support the supposed 1,800 narrow body backlog difference with Boeing.
 
cledaybuck
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:30 pm

chiad wrote:
jupiter2 wrote:
Geoff1947 wrote:

You can play the “apples to apples” game many ways. Try taking out Boeing’s freighters for example.



Geoff


Why ? Boeing at least build them and they are derivatives of existing models.


Just like Geoff said; You can play the “apples to apples” game many ways.
But as soon as you do that it gets messy.
So referring to not including the A220 because (Quote:) "Boeing doesn't have a competitor", we're already on quite shaky ground.

Or maybe we should count 50% of all A220 orders for Airbus. Or maybe 50% for all deliveries until 2023 and then 100% after. And maybe 80% of all Embraer's for Boeing this year. :D
Or maybe we can stop the dick measuring contest (although to be fair, it appears A & B rather like and encourage the dick measuring contest themselves) and look at the overall results and realize that both companies had good years with some weaknesses on individual product lines.
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
Asiaflyer
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:30 pm

SC430 wrote:
AECM wrote:
Backlogs - Airbus deliveries do not support the supposed 1,800 narrow body backlog difference with Boeing.


Why should Airbus match Boeings backlog? A320 sells better than the 737 and hence has a larger backlog, although Airbus plans larger production ramp-up than Boeing.
In general I find this ongoing A vs B comparison imature and irrelevant. Both companies are doing fabulous and both deserve large respect!
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:36 pm

Asiaflyer wrote:
SC430 wrote:
Backlogs - Airbus deliveries do not support the supposed 1,800 narrow body backlog difference with Boeing.

Why should Airbus match Boeings backlog? A320 sells better than the 737 and hence has a larger backlog, although Airbus plans larger production ramp-up than Boeing.

I didn't understand this sentence either. @SC430 - care to elaborate?

Asiaflyer wrote:
Both companies are doing fabulous and both deserve large respect!

:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:
 
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Momo1435
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:58 pm

N14AZ wrote:
Asiaflyer wrote:
SC430 wrote:
Backlogs - Airbus deliveries do not support the supposed 1,800 narrow body backlog difference with Boeing.

Why should Airbus match Boeings backlog? A320 sells better than the 737 and hence has a larger backlog, although Airbus plans larger production ramp-up than Boeing.

I didn't understand this sentence either. @SC430 - care to elaborate?

Asiaflyer wrote:
Both companies are doing fabulous and both deserve large respect!

:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:


I think he didn't comment on the backlog but on the deliveries.

Considering the larger backlog one would also expect Airbus to deliver more A320s compared to the Boeing 737 then they did last year.

The planned production ramp up of both the A320 and 737 should reflect the the long term market shares of the A320 vs the 737 better. With the large demand it's the availability of production slots that will ultimately decide the market share distribution between both models. Boeing can always try to match the A320 output, even with a smaller backlog creating more sales opportunities on the way. Airbus could also increase it again even further to deliver their current backlog even quicker.
 
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qf789
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:30 pm

As mentioned in the latest update

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... dit#gid=19

3 x 787-9's placed on 30 September - Ethiopian
2 x 787-9's placed on 25 September - Juneyao
Government of Tanzania is behind one of the 788 orders (for 1 only), though unclear which one
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qf789
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:55 am

Airbus end of year changes as well

Removal of 10 A388's from back log - Hong Kong Airlines
LATAM converts 4 A350-1000's to A350-900's
Air Cote d'Ivoire has converted its 2 A320neo's into A319neo's
Etihad cancels 10 A320neo, the remainder of the Airbus book stays for now but that is of course subject to change

https://samchui.com/2019/01/11/airbus-r ... DgxYfZuLIU
Forum Moderator
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:02 am

Conversion to A319neo, interesting
 
P1aneMad
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:55 am

The 10 A320neos canceled by Etihad were supposed to go to Air Serbia.
 
justloveplanes
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:36 am

Here is a calculation I've wanted to make for a while. It seems the best way to measure market share is by passenger (seat) capacity. This is all published data and takes into account aircraft size (more or less) without the vagaries of list price. This model below is quick and dirty as I didn't have a precise breakdown of passenger capacity per model, so I just used the median seat count of that published on Wikipedia with the following results (Boeing 170K seats, Airbus 130K seats)

Model Seats Units Capacity

Airbus
A222 128 0
A223 128 135 17280
A319 165 24 3960
A320 165 380 62700
A321 165 137 22605
A332/F 267 6 1602
A333 267 3 801
A338 267 2 534
A339 267 16 4272
A358 345 0
A359 345 39 13455
A3510 345 1 345
A388 544 4 2176
Total 747 129730

Boeing 0
B737 157 0
B738 157 675 105975
B739 157 0
B738M 157 0
B739M 157 0
B763 220 40 8800
B788 268 0
B789 268 109 29212
B7810 268 0
B773 368 51 18768
B772/F 368 0
B778 368 0
B779 368 0
B748/F 410 18 7380
Total 893 170135

Source for Capacity = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airliner
Capacities average used for all models
 
imthedreamliner
Posts: 102
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:29 am

So 2018 is in the books. Time to lock this thread and start 2019 ?
 
Kikko19
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:18 am

justloveplanes wrote:
Here is a calculation I've wanted to make for a while. It seems the best way to measure market share is by passenger (seat) capacity. This is all published data and takes into account aircraft size (more or less) without the vagaries of list price. This model below is quick and dirty as I didn't have a precise breakdown of passenger capacity per model, so I just used the median seat count of that published on Wikipedia with the following results (Boeing 170K seats, Airbus 130K seats)

Model Seats Units Capacity

Airbus
A222 128 0
A223 128 135 17280
A319 165 24 3960
A320 165 380 62700
A321 165 137 22605
A332/F 267 6 1602
A333 267 3 801
A338 267 2 534
A339 267 16 4272
A358 345 0
A359 345 39 13455
A3510 345 1 345
A388 544 4 2176
Total 747 129730

Boeing 0
B737 157 0
B738 157 675 105975
B739 157 0
B738M 157 0
B739M 157 0
B763 220 40 8800
B788 268 0
B789 268 109 29212
B7810 268 0
B773 368 51 18768
B772/F 368 0
B778 368 0
B779 368 0
B748/F 410 18 7380
Total 893 170135

Source for Capacity = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airliner
Capacities average used for all models


a321 165 seats?
 
justloveplanes
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:46 pm

165 is actually the midpoint of A319 to A321... Best I could do!
 
SC430
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:05 am

justloveplanes wrote:
Here is a calculation I've wanted to make for a while. It seems the best way to measure market share is by passenger (seat) capacity. This is all published data and takes into account aircraft size (more or less) without the vagaries of list price. This model below is quick and dirty as I didn't have a precise breakdown of passenger capacity per model, so I just used the median seat count of that published on Wikipedia with the following results (Boeing 170K seats, Airbus 130K seats)

Model Seats Units Capacity

Airbus
A222 128 0
A223 128 135 17280
A319 165 24 3960
A320 165 380 62700
A321 165 137 22605
A332/F 267 6 1602
A333 267 3 801
A338 267 2 534
A339 267 16 4272
A358 345 0
A359 345 39 13455
A3510 345 1 345
A388 544 4 2176
Total 747 129730

Boeing 0
B737 157 0
B738 157 675 105975
B739 157 0
B738M 157 0
B739M 157 0
B763 220 40 8800
B788 268 0
B789 268 109 29212
B7810 268 0
B773 368 51 18768
B772/F 368 0
B778 368 0
B779 368 0
B748/F 410 18 7380
Total 893 170135

Source for Capacity = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airliner
Capacities average used for all models


Interesting approach, I would like to see it applied to deliveries as well. Also the A220 should only be counted at 50%
 
juliuswong
Posts: 2021
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:22 am

Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:34 am

qf789 wrote:
Airbus end of year changes as well

Removal of 10 A388's from back log - Hong Kong Airlines
LATAM converts 4 A350-1000's to A350-900's
Air Cote d'Ivoire has converted its 2 A320neo's into A319neo's
Etihad cancels 10 A320neo, the remainder of the Airbus book stays for now but that is of course subject to change

https://samchui.com/2019/01/11/airbus-r ... DgxYfZuLIU

These are some interesting to see points. LATAM seems to be unable to make up their mind to how many A250 -900 or -1000 they want. They have been up gauging and down gauging few times. Does this relate to them keeping their B77W longer than expected?

Surprise to see Air Cote d'Ivoire down gauging A320neo to 319neo? How much savings is this switch? For a start-up, they might be better off with used A319. There are plenty of late MSN A319 hitting the used market recently.

Good to see EY rightsizing their re-fleet plan. I believe they will soon remove those older A320ceo, leaving those with Sharklets. For now their A350 remains intact, fingers crossed.
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
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reidar76
Posts: 539
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2015 5:16 pm

Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:45 am

justloveplanes wrote:
Here is a calculation I've wanted to make for a while. It seems the best way to measure market share is by passenger (seat) capacity. This is all published data and takes into account aircraft size (more or less) without the vagaries of list price. This model below is quick and dirty as I didn't have a precise breakdown of passenger capacity per model, so I just used the median seat count of that published on Wikipedia with the following results (Boeing 170K seats, Airbus 130K seats)

Model Seats Units Capacity

Airbus
A222 128 0
A223 128 135 17280
A319 165 24 3960
A320 165 380 62700
A321 165 137 22605
A332/F 267 6 1602
A333 267 3 801
A338 267 2 534
A339 267 16 4272
A358 345 0
A359 345 39 13455
A3510 345 1 345
A388 544 4 2176
Total 747 129730

Boeing 0
B737 157 0
B738 157 675 105975
B739 157 0
B738M 157 0
B739M 157 0
B763 220 40 8800
B788 268 0
B789 268 109 29212
B7810 268 0
B773 368 51 18768
B772/F 368 0
B778 368 0
B779 368 0
B748/F 410 18 7380
Total 893 170135

Source for Capacity = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airliner
Capacities average used for all models


Interesting, thank you.

(Freighters and military tankers should be excluded, or be listed with actual number of available seats.)
 
george77300
Posts: 1131
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 8:33 pm

Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:19 pm

December 2018 - United Top Up Orders.

4 x Boeing 777-300ER
24 x Boeing 737 MAX
 
george77300
Posts: 1131
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 8:33 pm

Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:22 pm

george77300 wrote:
December 2018 - United Top Up Orders.

4 x Boeing 777-300ER
24 x Boeing 737 MAX


Both in the 2018 log of course. Listed as unidentified.

Unidentified 24 MAX and 4 77W certainly the United frames.

As for the 777s. From UAL report, 2 are due 2019. I would guess other 2 due 2020.

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