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Arion640
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:55 pm

Am i right in thinking an undisclosed order is sitting on the books?
 
Aircellist
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:47 pm

I guess the closing of the deal making the plane an Airbus will be celebrated by more than one undisclosed order(s)… But there will not be a single one sold beforehand. Hence the interest of closing before Farnborough.
"When I find out I was wrong, I change my mind. What do you do?" -attributed to John Maynard Keynes
 
dtwpilot225
Posts: 278
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:08 pm

Question for anyone that knows this stuff. What will happen to bombardier stock when this transaction happens. Airbus only invested in the c series program not all of bombardier. If the c series gets a bunch of orders soon will airbus stock go up, bombardier stock go up or both?
 
wrongwayup
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:08 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Am i right in thinking an undisclosed order is sitting on the books?


Nope. At least not as of end 2017.

https://www.bombardier.com/content/dam/ ... tus-en.pdf
 
Akashg5
Posts: 3
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:03 pm

LockheedBBD wrote:
OA940 wrote:
Also is there any news on that European order? It's 4 months late, and I really wanna know the new operator.



Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that was only a letter of intent. Who knows if it will ever materialize.


From what I've heard, the reasons for the delay stem from Airbus' pending stake in the C series programme. The deal between the two companies is not yet finalised, (it will happen, its a case of when) regulatory and Antitrust approval plans are still going through.

What this means is that Airbus cannot yet start marketing the CSeries alongside their own aircraft, and can only make limited steps towards helping Bombardier ramp up their production and incorporating them into their new Mobile,Alabama site.

And much like someone else on the thread said, the order probably will happen, but maintaining order status at just an 'LOI from an unidentified customer' is keeping the airline away from speculation and should the deal go south it gives them a better negotiating point with other manufacturers if they do decide to pursue another aircraft instead. Would the said airline really see much point in committing to this order when they have no guarantee that Bombardier will be able to ramp up production as much as they say they can? If there orders would take longer than they would like to be delivered regularly would it not be feasible to look into alternatives such as the E2 programme from Embraer?

In my opinion, from a marketing point of view, keeping this order, one of such large quantity undisclosed and unconfirmed during this transition period is a win-win for both parties and right now I don't think either party is in an immediate rush to announce the deal.

This is a mixture of personal feeling and opinion
An interesting article I found on the tie up, https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... s-mid-year
 
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sergegva
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Tue May 08, 2018 10:16 pm

No CS100 has been delivered for exactly 1 year (last one was HB-JBH). Any idea why?
 
dampfnudel
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Wed May 09, 2018 3:03 am

Has construction of Delta’s first CS100 begun yet?
A313 332 343 B703 712 722 732 73G 738 739 741 742 744 752 762 76E 764 772 AT5 CR9 D10 DHH DHT F27 GRM L10 M83 TU5
 
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LockheedBBD
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Wed May 09, 2018 4:19 am

dampfnudel wrote:
Has construction of Delta’s first CS100 begun yet?


Bombardier and Delta might want to be cautious. By June, the CSeries will be an Airbus product. The desicion for Airbus' WTO illegal subsidy appeal will be announced this month. Boeing said that if Airbus loses, they're going to request tariffs against Airbus imports into the US which will once again affect the CSeries.
 
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LTU1011
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Wed May 09, 2018 8:10 am

I'm sure they couldn't care less, but B has lost all my respect -that was left- asinine behavior imho
If a man knows not to which port he sails, no wind is favorable. - Seneca
 
Jetsouth
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Wed May 09, 2018 11:41 am

Bombardier just cannot deliver. Whether its planes or trains. Train orders to New York City, Toronto, and elsewhere are over 2 years late. CSeries production is well behind. They were supposed to deliver 40 this year or 3-4 a month. They are not even close to meeting this CSeries delivery target. I do not know if it is a management, supply or quality problem that is causing all the delays... perhaps all three. Indeed, their only hope seems to be to get Airbus involved.
 
AvroLanc
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Wed May 09, 2018 3:53 pm

Just wondering how the in service aircraft are performing? I haven't heard much and can't seem to find anything on the net. I would imagine by now both operators (excluding Korean Air) should have some good performance data.
707, 717, 727, 732, 734, 737 ,738, 7M8, 742, 744, 767, 773, 789.
DC8, 9,10, MD80 ,L1011 ,HSTrident, BAC111, DHComet.
DH8-100, 400, CRJ100,200,700, EM75,90, A310,319,320,321,333
 
ExMilitaryEng
Posts: 636
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Wed May 09, 2018 4:30 pm

To Jetsouth:
Well, you can't generalize globally.

FWIW, BBD Transport (BT) is relatively successful outside North America. (But I agree, they are pretty late in NA)

As the "Buy America" provisions are getting tougher (coupled with the constant bad publicity around here, warranted or not), I suspect BT will sell / close some of its NA production facilities, and mostly abandon the market to the Chinese.

As Ontario (Toronto) seems to believe they can do better; maybe they can buy both BBD Thunder Bay and Kingston facilities and save the jobs over there? That might diminish the BBD bashings once they are stuck to sustain those facilities.

About CSeries production, don't expect any physical / toolings / plant improvements and/or rearrangements before the closing of that Airbus partnership. That aspect is frozen for now.

Airbus is not authorized to discuss / propose / suggest / coordinate anything with BBD until that closing.

No points for BBD of making any improvements that could be changed by Airbus later. We also have to determine who pays what.
 
Skywatcher
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Wed May 09, 2018 5:39 pm

In my opinion BBD became so flawed/dysfunctional about 2 or 3 years ago that they almost went belly up. Things have improved but they still have a long way to go.

I agree that they should bail out of certain segments (Ontario ground transit for one). They can't be profitable with all the delays in that market at least. They seem to need to focus on the c-series more effectively. The executive jet division seems to have stabilized and I suppose they can squeeze some end of life profit out of the CRJ program.

I would sell off the Q400 program as well. From what I understand the unions at Downsview are particularly difficult to deal with.
 
Dash9
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Wed May 09, 2018 5:50 pm

dampfnudel wrote:
Has construction of Delta’s first CS100 begun yet?


Yes there are a few units in production. Fliegerfaust' reports on production are pretty accurate as he apparently have one or many sources in the FAL. Disclaimer: production appart Sylvain has a fairly low success rate in its previsions on future orders, sale/move of FAL and what not. beware of all his theories.

Delta first CSeries has its wings and landing gears installed! MSN 50020 is next to the exit door at the fuselage assembly building (the new building). It is scheduled for delivery in October. The 2nd Delta CSeries MSN 50021 will be moving forward to get its wings and landing gears very soon. Good news!
https://www.fliegerfaust.com/bombardier-aerospace/
 
ExMilitaryEng
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Wed May 09, 2018 7:27 pm

Skywatcher wrote:
I agree that they ("BBD Transport", that's the rail division) should bail out of certain segments (Ontario ground transit for one)

Furthermore, the new "Buy America" provisions will render production for the US market unachievable. There are no ways BBD can profitably increase its US footprint to meet those new requirements. (FWIW, the Chinese somehow found ways to win a contract in Chicago, while meeting local content requirement. We'll see how it goes, and how many US jobs are actually created...).

So I'm not very optimistic for the future of BBD Transport in North American. Thunder Bay/Kingston (ON) and Plattsburgh (NY) might go first.

Skywatcher wrote:
They seem to need to focus on the c-series more effectively.
They're doing just that - but with an half finished FAL layout and a frozen budget.

Expect big changes / investments when that Airbus partnership deal closes.

Skywatcher wrote:
From what I understand the unions at Downsview are particularly difficult to deal with.
That's an understatement.

UNIFOR's position against the Downsview land sale, and against its zoning change probably did cost BBD hundreds of millions.

So what other asset sabotage/destruction UNIFOR is capable from now on? Since BBD pretends it's losing money with every Q400 sale, I'm not very optimistic here.

Maybe a new owner (Ontario?) can still deal with UNIFOR while reducing production costs? (please refrain from laughing here)
 
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OA940
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Wed May 16, 2018 7:42 pm

Will Air Tanzania take theirs on time? Have there been any more deliveries in April/May? This is getting ridiculous. What's the holdup for?
A350/CSeries = bae
 
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Finn350
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Wed May 16, 2018 9:11 pm

dtwpilot225 wrote:
Question for anyone that knows this stuff. What will happen to bombardier stock when this transaction happens. Airbus only invested in the c series program not all of bombardier. If the c series gets a bunch of orders soon will airbus stock go up, bombardier stock go up or both?


Both will go up, as Airbus will own 50.01% and Bombardier 31% of the C Series Aircraft Limited Partnership, the company that manufactures and sells C Series aircraft.
 
rufusmi
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Thu May 17, 2018 7:39 pm

Any updates on when the first DL birds are due? Things seem relatively quiet.
 
boxeebox
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Thu May 17, 2018 7:46 pm

rufusmi wrote:
Any updates on when the first DL birds are due? Things seem relatively quiet.



Dash9 wrote:
dampfnudel wrote:
Has construction of Delta’s first CS100 begun yet?



Delta first CSeries has its wings and landing gears installed! MSN 50020 is next to the exit door at the fuselage assembly building (the new building). It is scheduled for delivery in October. The 2nd Delta CSeries MSN 50021 will be moving forward to get its wings and landing gears very soon. Good news!
https://www.fliegerfaust.com/bombardier-aerospace/
 
Leslieville
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Thu May 17, 2018 8:20 pm

Jetsouth wrote:
Bombardier just cannot deliver. Whether its planes or trains. Train orders to New York City, Toronto, and elsewhere are over 2 years late. CSeries production is well behind. They were supposed to deliver 40 this year or 3-4 a month. They are not even close to meeting this CSeries delivery target. I do not know if it is a management, supply or quality problem that is causing all the delays... perhaps all three. Indeed, their only hope seems to be to get Airbus involved.


Setting aside the appalling delays on numerous Bombardier projects, Vancouver has not experienced delays on its steady stream of SkyTrain automated rapid transit trainsets over their 30+ year history. It's unclear why those seem to be immune, since they come out of the same Thunder Bay plant that has fumbled the TTC orders.
 
DALCE
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Tue May 22, 2018 10:12 am

HB-JCL, msn 55029. The 12th CS300 and in total 20th C-series frame has been delivered to SWISS.
flown: F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,223,E75,E90,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,
753,763,744,77W,788,319,320,321,333,AB6.
 
Dash9
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Wed May 23, 2018 8:49 pm

Bombardier gave their CS100 FTV3 test airplane to the Ecole Nationale d'aéronautique
sorry couldn't find a link in english. Will be official tomorrow.
http://www.lapresse.ca/affaires/economi ... hnique.php
 
GRJGeorge
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Tue May 29, 2018 9:27 am

OA940 wrote:
Will Air Tanzania take theirs on time? Have there been any more deliveries in April/May? This is getting ridiculous. What's the holdup for?


Air Tanzania have an ad somewhere about launching DAR-HRE flights on 1 July with new C series aircraft.

Do we know if these are actually in production and will one be delivered by then already?
 
DUSZRH
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Tue May 29, 2018 12:15 pm

The next two CS300, 55030 to LX and 55031 to KE have been "exported" yesterday. Would mean 3 deliveries for May.
 
DALCE
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Tue May 29, 2018 12:23 pm

55030 // HB-JCM will depart YMX on the 30th for delivery.
flown: F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,223,E75,E90,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,
753,763,744,77W,788,319,320,321,333,AB6.
 
FatCat
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Tue May 29, 2018 12:24 pm

DALCE wrote:
HB-JCL, msn 55029. The 12th CS300 and in total 20th C-series frame has been delivered to SWISS.

Stupid question, but only 8 CS100 are produced, as by now?
I didn't know I am flying on such a rare airplane on a regular basis :-)
BTW as said before the CS100 is one of my all times fav.
Aeroplane flies high
Turns left, looks right
 
SteelChair
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Thu May 31, 2018 3:08 pm

FatCat wrote:
DALCE wrote:
HB-JCL, msn 55029. The 12th CS300 and in total 20th C-series frame has been delivered to SWISS.

Stupid question, but only 8 CS100 are produced, as by now?
I didn't know I am flying on such a rare airplane on a regular basis :-)
BTW as said before the CS100 is one of my all times fav.


My guess is that most carriers have found the very low seat mile costs of the 300 extremely compelling vis a vis the 100.

Also, I think Swiss needs the 100 specifically for the LCY service.

Delta is the next carrier to take 100s, and they are getting "bare bones" aircraft with low weights and the small engine option specifically to replace 76 seat RJs.
 
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Jayafe
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Thu May 31, 2018 3:17 pm

SteelChair wrote:
Delta is the next carrier to take 100s, and they are getting "bare bones" aircraft with low weights and the small engine option specifically to replace 76 seat RJs.


And that might be the way to go way when props around need replacement....
 
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lightsaber
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Thu May 31, 2018 3:33 pm

GRJGeorge wrote:
OA940 wrote:
Will Air Tanzania take theirs on time? Have there been any more deliveries in April/May? This is getting ridiculous. What's the holdup for?


Air Tanzania have an ad somewhere about launching DAR-HRE flights on 1 July with new C series aircraft.

Do we know if these are actually in production and will one be delivered by then already?

Yeah! I never expected production to still be in single digits. The AirBaltic top off order is a nice start. I'm incredibly curious if AA, UA, NK, or others will consider the C-series. While the DL EIS will be exciting, what the C-series needs is more deliveries and more orders!

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
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Polot
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Thu May 31, 2018 4:06 pm

SteelChair wrote:
FatCat wrote:
DALCE wrote:
HB-JCL, msn 55029. The 12th CS300 and in total 20th C-series frame has been delivered to SWISS.

Stupid question, but only 8 CS100 are produced, as by now?
I didn't know I am flying on such a rare airplane on a regular basis :-)
BTW as said before the CS100 is one of my all times fav.


My guess is that most carriers have found the very low seat mile costs of the 300 extremely compelling vis a vis the 100.

Also, I think Swiss needs the 100 specifically for the LCY service.

Delta is the next carrier to take 100s, and they are getting "bare bones" aircraft with low weights and the small engine option specifically to replace 76 seat RJs.

The CS100 is too overbuilt for its size, giving it unnecessary capability for most 100 seat users. It will always be a niche aircraft.
 
jalarner
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Thu May 31, 2018 4:46 pm

Don't forget it isn't a 100 seat aircraft...CS100 is 108 dual class, and 120-125 single class depending on seat pitch. Same as CS300 is 130/140/150 depending on layout. Even max capacity of 100/300 is 133/160 with 28" pitch.
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SteelChair
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Thu May 31, 2018 7:12 pm

Polot wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
FatCat wrote:
Stupid question, but only 8 CS100 are produced, as by now?
I didn't know I am flying on such a rare airplane on a regular basis :-)
BTW as said before the CS100 is one of my all times fav.


My guess is that most carriers have found the very low seat mile costs of the 300 extremely compelling vis a vis the 100.

Also, I think Swiss needs the 100 specifically for the LCY service.

Delta is the next carrier to take 100s, and they are getting "bare bones" aircraft with low weights and the small engine option specifically to replace 76 seat RJs.

The CS100 is too overbuilt for its size, giving it unnecessary capability for most 100 seat users. It will always be a niche aircraft.


Well we are all entitled to our opinions.. ..could you please elucidate upon your comments? In what ways is it "overbuilt for its size?" What capabilities would you do away with?

Also, aren't most inital airplanes in a series poor sellers, ie., 727-100, 767-200, A300B4, 707-120, DC9-10 to name but a few , compared to their later, stretched brethren?
 
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Polot
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Thu May 31, 2018 7:22 pm

SteelChair wrote:
Polot wrote:
SteelChair wrote:

My guess is that most carriers have found the very low seat mile costs of the 300 extremely compelling vis a vis the 100.

Also, I think Swiss needs the 100 specifically for the LCY service.

Delta is the next carrier to take 100s, and they are getting "bare bones" aircraft with low weights and the small engine option specifically to replace 76 seat RJs.

The CS100 is too overbuilt for its size, giving it unnecessary capability for most 100 seat users. It will always be a niche aircraft.


Well we are all entitled to our opinions.. ..could you please elucidate upon your comments? In what ways is it "overbuilt for its size?" What capabilities would you do away with?

Also, aren't most inital airplanes in a series poor sellers, ie., 727-100, 767-200, A300B4, 707-120, DC9-10 to name but a few , compared to their later, stretched brethren?

Capabilities such as range, weight, take off performance, etc. 100 seat or 120 seat it doesn’t matter. The CS300 is basically the base model with the CS100 as a shrink and it shows. There is a reason why 2/3rds of the current CS100 orders are in the hands of one customer (who has the option of converting some of those orders to CS300s down the line).

Nothing wrong with the CS100 being niche, but there are members here who I believe think a bit too optimistically about that model’s sales prospects even under Airbus leadership. They think the CS100 is going to be the miracle plane breaking open the 100-110 seat segment with customers all over the place buying it...which no, is not going to happen. Most customers are going to opt for the CS300.
Last edited by Polot on Thu May 31, 2018 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
SteelChair
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Thu May 31, 2018 7:23 pm

Jayafe wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
Delta is the next carrier to take 100s, and they are getting "bare bones" aircraft with low weights and the small engine option specifically to replace 76 seat RJs.


And that might be the way to go way when props around need replacement....


Can you please explain your meaning, not sure I understand what you were trying to say.
 
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Polot
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Thu May 31, 2018 7:28 pm

SteelChair wrote:
Jayafe wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
Delta is the next carrier to take 100s, and they are getting "bare bones" aircraft with low weights and the small engine option specifically to replace 76 seat RJs.


And that might be the way to go way when props around need replacement....


Can you please explain your meaning, not sure I understand what you were trying to say.

He is saying heavy ATR/Q400 users might turn to the CS100 when it comes time to replace them as there are no new props in development on the horizon. I don’t see it. If they were interested in replacing those props with jets the E2 likely has a better shot than the CS100. But there would probably be an eventual improved ATR on the market before the only replacement option is a jet.
 
SteelChair
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Thu May 31, 2018 7:28 pm

Polot wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
Polot wrote:
The CS100 is too overbuilt for its size, giving it unnecessary capability for most 100 seat users. It will always be a niche aircraft.


Well we are all entitled to our opinions.. ..could you please elucidate upon your comments? In what ways is it "overbuilt for its size?" What capabilities would you do away with?

Also, aren't most inital airplanes in a series poor sellers, ie., 727-100, 767-200, A300B4, 707-120, DC9-10 to name but a few , compared to their later, stretched brethren?

Capabilities such as range, weight, take off performance, etc. 100 seat or 120 seat it doesn’t matter. The CS300 is basically the base model with the CS100 as a shrink and it shows. There is a reason why 2/3rds of the current CS100 orders are in the hands of one customer (who has the option of converting some of those orders to CS300s down the line).

Nothing wrong with the CS100 being niche, but there are members here who I believe think a bit too optimistically about that model’s sales prospects even under Airbus leadership.


I agree with your assessment, but will say that almost every program is like that. Heck, the A380 never even made it to the optimized model....it got stuck at the -100, sub-optimized version.
 
SteelChair
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Thu May 31, 2018 7:31 pm

Polot wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
Jayafe wrote:

And that might be the way to go way when props around need replacement....


Can you please explain your meaning, not sure I understand what you were trying to say.

He is saying heavy ATR/Q400 users might turn to the CS100 when it comes time to replace them as there are no new props in development on the horizon. I don’t see it. If they were interested in replacing those props with jets the E2 likely has a better shot than the CS100. But there would probably be an eventual improved ATR on the market before the only replacement option is a jet.


Isn't that what airBaltic just did (ordered 300s to replace Q400s)?
 
JulietteBravo
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Thu May 31, 2018 7:58 pm

I guess compared to the CS100 the CS300 shows some advantages such as
- operational: same same with 2 FCM and 3 Cabin
- optimized with 145 Pax (1 CCM per 50 Pax)
- in relation to it’s size not much higher ops costs (fuel, crew)
- designed to compete with the larger EMB models smaller airlines such as airBaltic or also SWISS have more potential for growth, larger companies for upgrading small markets
- on the upper scale the 300 is a successor for the A319 and the smaller B737 models whilst the 100 is too small
 
9252fly
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Thu May 31, 2018 8:58 pm

With the prevailing thought being the CS100 as the likely niche sales version and the CS300 the more mainstream seller, where would the CS500 fit if it were to be produced? I can't help but want to think it would follow the trend in sales of the B788, B789 and B787-10. Like the B787-10, the CS500 would trade range for capcity.
 
SteelChair
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Thu May 31, 2018 9:34 pm

The CS500 would also blow the 738 and A320 out of the water on shorter routes. Short being a relative term, it would still be quite capable. Imho, the GTF and Leap move the 737 and 320 lines "up" in terms of optimized capability/capacity, leaving a gap in the 150-160ish seating range. The CS500 fills that gap like no other airplane and Airbus secured that part of the product range by "buying" the program. Unless they shelve the 500.
 
Someone83
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:54 am

HB-JCM is on its delivery flight to Swiss and ZRH

https://www.flightradar24.com/SWR5201/119291cd
 
Skywatcher
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:25 pm

Does anybody know where we stand with 2018 deliveries so far?
 
MSPNWA
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:57 am

Polot wrote:
Capabilities such as range, weight, take off performance, etc. 100 seat or 120 seat it doesn’t matter. The CS300 is basically the base model with the CS100 as a shrink and it shows. There is a reason why 2/3rds of the current CS100 orders are in the hands of one customer (who has the option of converting some of those orders to CS300s down the line).

Nothing wrong with the CS100 being niche, but there are members here who I believe think a bit too optimistically about that model’s sales prospects even under Airbus leadership. They think the CS100 is going to be the miracle plane breaking open the 100-110 seat segment with customers all over the place buying it...which no, is not going to happen. Most customers are going to opt for the CS300.


It's common belief at DL that the majority of their order will be for the CS300. I don't remember the cutoff when DL can switch to the CS300, but I would put money that there won't be more than about 20-30 C100s at DL.

I agree that the CS100 was overbuilt. And there's still the inherent problem of that a smaller aircraft requires more flights (and hence airplanes) to carry the same amount of people. That's added cost.
 
neromancer
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:10 am

MSPNWA wrote:
Polot wrote:
Capabilities such as range, weight, take off performance, etc. 100 seat or 120 seat it doesn’t matter. The CS300 is basically the base model with the CS100 as a shrink and it shows. There is a reason why 2/3rds of the current CS100 orders are in the hands of one customer (who has the option of converting some of those orders to CS300s down the line).

Nothing wrong with the CS100 being niche, but there are members here who I believe think a bit too optimistically about that model’s sales prospects even under Airbus leadership. They think the CS100 is going to be the miracle plane breaking open the 100-110 seat segment with customers all over the place buying it...which no, is not going to happen. Most customers are going to opt for the CS300.


It's common belief at DL that the majority of their order will be for the CS300. I don't remember the cutoff when DL can switch to the CS300, but I would put money that there won't be more than about 20-30 C100s at DL.

I agree that the CS100 was overbuilt. And there's still the inherent problem of that a smaller aircraft requires more flights (and hence airplanes) to carry the same amount of people. That's added cost.


I thought the DL CS100 order was about scope clause in the Union agreement. I believe the CS100 was classified as a regional jet but the CS300 wasn't? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
 
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Polot
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:32 pm

neromancer wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
Polot wrote:
Capabilities such as range, weight, take off performance, etc. 100 seat or 120 seat it doesn’t matter. The CS300 is basically the base model with the CS100 as a shrink and it shows. There is a reason why 2/3rds of the current CS100 orders are in the hands of one customer (who has the option of converting some of those orders to CS300s down the line).

Nothing wrong with the CS100 being niche, but there are members here who I believe think a bit too optimistically about that model’s sales prospects even under Airbus leadership. They think the CS100 is going to be the miracle plane breaking open the 100-110 seat segment with customers all over the place buying it...which no, is not going to happen. Most customers are going to opt for the CS300.


It's common belief at DL that the majority of their order will be for the CS300. I don't remember the cutoff when DL can switch to the CS300, but I would put money that there won't be more than about 20-30 C100s at DL.

I agree that the CS100 was overbuilt. And there's still the inherent problem of that a smaller aircraft requires more flights (and hence airplanes) to carry the same amount of people. That's added cost.


I thought the DL CS100 order was about scope clause in the Union agreement. I believe the CS100 was classified as a regional jet but the CS300 wasn't? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

The CS100 is too large to be a RJ even at Delta. More ~100 seaters may allow DL to increase the 76 seat fleet cap and fly more 76 seaters (as in UA’s pilot agreement) but I don’t know if that is the case and if so by how much DL can increase the 76 seat fleet.
 
ExMilitaryEng
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Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 7:12 pm

Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:30 pm

I suspect neromancer got mixed up with UA's "New Small Narrowbody Aircraft" labor contract provision (which included the CS100) that allowed some more 76 seaters.
 
neromancer
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:37 am

ExMilitaryEng wrote:
I suspect neromancer got mixed up with UA's "New Small Narrowbody Aircraft" labor contract provision (which included the CS100) that allowed some more 76 seaters.


Yes you might be correct.
 
SteelChair
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:31 am

Delta can convert CS100 orders to CS300s after the 35th CS100.

Regarding the overbuilt comments, Delta is getting the small engine option and has stated in official filings that the average segment length for the CS100 will be under 1,000nm.
 
AvroLanc
Posts: 65
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:40 pm

Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:39 pm

SteelChair wrote:
Delta can convert CS100 orders to CS300s after the 35th CS100.

Regarding the overbuilt comments, Delta is getting the small engine option and has stated in official filings that the average segment length for the CS100 will be under 1,000nm.


Would you be so kind as to explain the "small engine option" i was not aware there was a difference. Also has this power plant been tested?
707, 717, 727, 732, 734, 737 ,738, 7M8, 742, 744, 767, 773, 789.
DC8, 9,10, MD80 ,L1011 ,HSTrident, BAC111, DHComet.
DH8-100, 400, CRJ100,200,700, EM75,90, A310,319,320,321,333
 
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lightsaber
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:32 pm

AvroLanc wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
Delta can convert CS100 orders to CS300s after the 35th CS100.

Regarding the overbuilt comments, Delta is getting the small engine option and has stated in official filings that the average segment length for the CS100 will be under 1,000nm.


Would you be so kind as to explain the "small engine option" i was not aware there was a difference. Also has this power plant been tested?

Almost all engines are sold for less with better maintenance intervals, or just lower power by the hour fees, if the engine is sold derated. The physical engine is the same. There is just a plug with a tiny amount of software, mostly a text file of constants and authorization codes, that reduce the engine takeoff, climb, and even cruise thrust. This results in less outstanding short field performance and is usually paired with a reduced MTOW for the airframe.

This is usually done with the hope the airline will pay to increase thrust (more missions). While it does extend engine maintenance intervals, most of this is paperWork constraining performance. For example, my prior car changed the crankshaft and a plug as part of a $2,000 upgrade that cost less than $20, but boosted horsepower 20%. This is a $12 plug that might cost $400,000 per engine!

Pratt sold engines at such an extreme discount, they want a chance of a future payment. Same with Bombardier. DL gets no upgrade for free...

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