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AWY
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:45 pm

reidar76 wrote:
Leeham News and Comment wrote:
Airbus is expected to announce a rebranding of the C Series at its July 10 pre-Farnborough Air Show media briefing. An aircraft is in the process of being repainted in Airbus colors for display at the event.


https://leehamnews.com/2018/07/02/ponti ... fuel-burn/


In the article:

Dewar also announced that the C Series is burning about 3% less fuel than advertised. Drag, electrical outtake and bleed air each came in about 1% less than forecast, based on operating results from Air Baltic and Swiss.



I wonder if this 3% is what was reported last year or an additional 3%. If it's former, I believe they qualified that with "up to 3%" since the fuel savings was dependent on the mission length.
 
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Quantos
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:30 am

lightsaber wrote:
reidar76 wrote:
Leeham News and Comment wrote:
Airbus is expected to announce a rebranding of the C Series at its July 10 pre-Farnborough Air Show media briefing. An aircraft is in the process of being repainted in Airbus colors for display at the event.


https://leehamnews.com/2018/07/02/ponti ... fuel-burn/


It casts doubt on Moxie... :(.

Lightsaber


How so, apart from stating no order has officially been announced, which is true? LOI might be coming, but Moxy is at a pretty early stage all things considered.
Quantos,

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OA940
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:55 pm

Moxy won't order anything this year, unless this has been in the works for at least a couple of years. I expect at least one of the 7 (if memory serves correctly) airlines that were examining it to order. Especially now with Airbus behind the wheel they can get the deliveries sorted out and catch up. With discounts the CS could finally live up to its promise. If the European order wasn't Air Baltic then I'd expect that to be announced too, but as we all know very few rumors come true.

Also can someone explain to me why BBD hasn't delivered a CS100 in over a year?
A350/CSeries = bae
 
CS500
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:15 pm

Swiss wanted and converted many to CS300 (though I think they need1/2 more 100, Air Baltic and Korean are only CS300 customers.

There are Delta CS100 on the assembly line that will start to pop out soon.
 
SteelChair
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:51 pm

Yep, most airlines are going for the lower seat mile costs of the CS300. Delta has committed to take at least 35 CS100s, of which 5 or more are in various stages of production right now.

How much longer util the CS500/A250 is launched?
 
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:43 pm

SteelChair wrote:

How much longer util the CS500/A250 is launched?

Unfortunately for Bombardier (but they had to), too much of the engineering team was released (outsourced contractors). While a simple stretch, it would take a few years to design, a year to build, and a year to flight test. But as a betting man, I would think Airbus first wants to sell more of the CS300.

Airbus must also convert more A320 production to be automated A321 production prior to CS500 EIS.

Lightsaber
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SteelChair
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:48 pm

lightsaber wrote:
SteelChair wrote:

How much longer util the CS500/A250 is launched?

Airbus must also convert more A320 production to be automated A321 production prior to CS500 EIS.

Lightsaber


That is a curious comment. You are saying that the CS500 launch decision is dependent upon A320/321 production line improvements?
 
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lightsaber
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:49 pm

Quantos wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
reidar76 wrote:


It casts doubt on Moxie... :(.

Lightsaber


How so, apart from stating no order has officially been announced, which is true? LOI might be coming, but Moxy is at a pretty early stage all things considered.

You are correct, but a LOI is just a pretty piece of framable paper. I believe there will be a Moxy and they will order the C-series, but a LOI doesn't secure slot positions. Both sides are free to amend a LOI. Now, it sets a framework that if violated is bad business, but no LOI is binding.

Heck, more than half of firm orders aren't binding today... Not just Bombardier mind you.

I think the A230 will sell very well at Farnborough. :hyper:
Or at least I hope Spirit, United, Ethiopian, or Kenya close a deal (JetBlue has announced they will take longer to decide between the E2 and C-series).
All the above pit the E2-195 vs. CS300. I'm not sure that is the comparison Embraer wants. :duck:
Advantage to Bombardier as the Airbus deal closed while the Boeing/Embraer deal doesn't close for at least a year.

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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:57 pm

SteelChair wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
SteelChair wrote:

How much longer util the CS500/A250 is launched?

Airbus must also convert more A320 production to be automated A321 production prior to CS500 EIS.

Lightsaber


That is a curious comment. You are saying that the CS500 launch decision is dependent upon A320/321 production line improvements?

Now that Airbus controls the C-series, it is the business decision I would make. Otherwise, Airbus isn't offering a new product where they earn 50.01% of the profit, they would lose more on lost A320NEO sales. I think it will happen, but only once more NEO production could be shifted to the A321 and that investment will happen as part of line automation. Obviously just my opinion, but what rational management would do.

It might also take the CMC turbine PIP to give the CS500 TCON range. :hyper:

Lightsaber
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SteelChair
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:09 pm

[code][/code]
lightsaber wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Airbus must also convert more A320 production to be automated A321 production prior to CS500 EIS.

Lightsaber


That is a curious comment. You are saying that the CS500 launch decision is dependent upon A320/321 production line improvements?

Now that Airbus controls the C-series, it is the business decision I would make. Otherwise, Airbus isn't offering a new product where they earn 50.01% of the profit, they would lose more on lost A320NEO sales. I think it will happen, but only once more NEO production could be shifted to the A321 and that investment will happen as part of line automation. Obviously just my opinion, but what rational management would do.

It might also take the CMC turbine PIP to give the CS500 TCON range. :hyper:

Lightsaber


I agree. The CS5 might eat into A320 neo orders, that concern has been stated from the beginning....so how it all shakes out will be interesting.

It is interesting that Airbus is unable to futher increase 320 series production rate due to supplier issues (not just engines), yet CSeries production is far from fully ramped up yet.
 
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:12 pm

SteelChair wrote:
[code][/code]
lightsaber wrote:
SteelChair wrote:

That is a curious comment. You are saying that the CS500 launch decision is dependent upon A320/321 production line improvements?

Now that Airbus controls the C-series, it is the business decision I would make. Otherwise, Airbus isn't offering a new product where they earn 50.01% of the profit, they would lose more on lost A320NEO sales. I think it will happen, but only once more NEO production could be shifted to the A321 and that investment will happen as part of line automation. Obviously just my opinion, but what rational management would do.

It might also take the CMC turbine PIP to give the CS500 TCON range. :hyper:

Lightsaber


I agree. The CS5 might eat into A320 neo orders, that concern has been stated from the beginning....so how it all shakes out will be interesting.

It is interesting that Airbus is unable to futher increase 320 series production rate due to supplier issues (not just engines), yet CSeries production is far from fully ramped up yet.

The issue with vendors is that the ramp rates were not realistic. One of the more miligned vendors recently hired away a few of my friends to help design for manufacturing and design for integration. It will unfortunately take a year to design, certify, and produce enough to see the production rate increase. Two+ years for a step change. :spin:

Lightsaber
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LockheedBBD
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:21 pm

SteelChair wrote:
LockheedBBD wrote:
According to some folks on Twitter/Facebook, flight test aircraft #8 (CS300) is at an Airbus facility in Europe to get a repaint/new livery.


Linky?


Here's a sneak peek into the CSeries Airbus livery:

https://twitter.com/AviaDJ/status/1015942493416951811
 
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LockheedBBD
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:26 pm

lightsaber wrote:
SteelChair wrote:

How much longer util the CS500/A250 is launched?

Unfortunately for Bombardier (but they had to), too much of the engineering team was released (outsourced contractors). While a simple stretch, it would take a few years to design, a year to build, and a year to flight test. But as a betting man, I would think Airbus first wants to sell more of the CS300.

Airbus must also convert more A320 production to be automated A321 production prior to CS500 EIS.

Lightsaber


I think that the only chance for a CS500 is when/if Airbus buys out the government-owned portion of the program, and maybe Bombardier's portion.
 
SteelChair
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:10 am

lightsaber wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
[code][/code]
lightsaber wrote:
Now that Airbus controls the C-series, it is the business decision I would make. Otherwise, Airbus isn't offering a new product where they earn 50.01% of the profit, they would lose more on lost A320NEO sales. I think it will happen, but only once more NEO production could be shifted to the A321 and that investment will happen as part of line automation. Obviously just my opinion, but what rational management would do.

It might also take the CMC turbine PIP to give the CS500 TCON range. :hyper:

Lightsaber


I agree. The CS5 might eat into A320 neo orders, that concern has been stated from the beginning....so how it all shakes out will be interesting.

It is interesting that Airbus is unable to futher increase 320 series production rate due to supplier issues (not just engines), yet CSeries production is far from fully ramped up yet.

The issue with vendors is that the ramp rates were not realistic. One of the more miligned vendors recently hired away a few of my friends to help design for manufacturing and design for integration. It will unfortunately take a year to design, certify, and produce enough to see the production rate increase. Two+ years for a step change. :spin:

Lightsaber


Both major manufacturers (A and B) seem to brag about cutting costs by using suppliers. Then, after they cut the suppliers to the bone and the suppliers are unable to produce in adequate numbers with requisite quality, they throw those same suppliers under the bus.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:22 am

SteelChair wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
[code][/code]

I agree. The CS5 might eat into A320 neo orders, that concern has been stated from the beginning....so how it all shakes out will be interesting.

It is interesting that Airbus is unable to futher increase 320 series production rate due to supplier issues (not just engines), yet CSeries production is far from fully ramped up yet.

The issue with vendors is that the ramp rates were not realistic. One of the more miligned vendors recently hired away a few of my friends to help design for manufacturing and design for integration. It will unfortunately take a year to design, certify, and produce enough to see the production rate increase. Two+ years for a step change. :spin:

Lightsaber


Both major manufacturers (A and B) seem to brag about cutting costs by using suppliers. Then, after they cut the suppliers to the bone and the suppliers are unable to produce in adequate numbers with requisite quality, they throw those same suppliers under the bus.


To a degree that describes the entire food chain. Airlines, for example, squeeze A and B for every cent and concession. Then, when things don’t go the way they expected they throw them under the bus. I’m of course speaking generically, and you’re right, there’s not a lot of loyalty out there.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
JoeCanuck
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:58 am

I just saw a blurb from Leeham where they speculate that the Emb is part of a long range goal towards the NMA...a bit like I suspect Airbus is planning for the CSeries. Basically, I'm thinking the CSeries will become their small aircraft with the CS500 taking the slot occupied by the 320. Airbus can then concentrate on making their MOM offering optimized around either a re winged 321 and/or something all new.

There's little that the 320 can do now that a CS couldn't do better in the near future. They can start with a simple(ish) stretch to MD-90ish size. With pip's coming down the pike, as Lightsaber suggests, it should be able to do full load transcons by the early to mid 2020's...right when the 320 should be winding down. If they really want to go crazy with it, they can maybe put the big engines from the 320 under the wing, stuff it full of fuel and really see how far it could fly.

On one hand, losing a couple of contenders to the big two is a bit of a bummer, but it has given us some interesting stuff to speculate about.
What the...?
 
SteelChair
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:05 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
The issue with vendors is that the ramp rates were not realistic. One of the more miligned vendors recently hired away a few of my friends to help design for manufacturing and design for integration. It will unfortunately take a year to design, certify, and produce enough to see the production rate increase. Two+ years for a step change. :spin:

Lightsaber


Both major manufacturers (A and B) seem to brag about cutting costs by using suppliers. Then, after they cut the suppliers to the bone and the suppliers are unable to produce in adequate numbers with requisite quality, they throw those same suppliers under the bus.


To a degree that describes the entire food chain. Airlines, for example, squeeze A and B for every cent and concession. Then, when things don’t go the way they expected they throw them under the bus. I’m of course speaking generically, and you’re right, there’s not a lot of loyalty out there.


Agree, but you forgot the first squeeze, the airline customer, who continually demands more for less from the airline, as if cheap air travel was a birthright.
 
Nicoeddf
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:34 pm

SteelChair wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
SteelChair wrote:

Both major manufacturers (A and B) seem to brag about cutting costs by using suppliers. Then, after they cut the suppliers to the bone and the suppliers are unable to produce in adequate numbers with requisite quality, they throw those same suppliers under the bus.


To a degree that describes the entire food chain. Airlines, for example, squeeze A and B for every cent and concession. Then, when things don’t go the way they expected they throw them under the bus. I’m of course speaking generically, and you’re right, there’s not a lot of loyalty out there.


Agree, but you forgot the first squeeze, the airline customer, who continually demands more for less from the airline, as if cheap air travel was a birthright.


Thats not quite how it is. The consumer has an average amount of money to spend on mobility. Mobility actually is a birthright in some countries, Germany to name one. Back in the time, this average amount wasn't buying you an airline ticket. Nowadays Airlines have tapped this potential by offering seats priced within this certain amount of money. They are able to do that by squeezing out every tiny bit of efficiency, moral or not.

Hence, no, the consumer is not asking/pushing for lower prices actively. The consumer is offering spending power and the lower the airlines are able to price a ticket, the larger the possible market reach gets.
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SteelChair
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:26 pm

Nicoeddf wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:

To a degree that describes the entire food chain. Airlines, for example, squeeze A and B for every cent and concession. Then, when things don’t go the way they expected they throw them under the bus. I’m of course speaking generically, and you’re right, there’s not a lot of loyalty out there.


Agree, but you forgot the first squeeze, the airline customer, who continually demands more for less from the airline, as if cheap air travel was a birthright.


Thats not quite how it is. The consumer has an average amount of money to spend on mobility. Mobility actually is a birthright in some countries, Germany to name one. Back in the time, this average amount wasn't buying you an airline ticket. Nowadays Airlines have tapped this potential by offering seats priced within this certain amount of money. They are able to do that by squeezing out every tiny bit of efficiency, moral or not.

Hence, no, the consumer is not asking/pushing for lower prices actively. The consumer is offering spending power and the lower the airlines are able to price a ticket, the larger the possible market reach gets.


Everyone has the same amount of money to spend on travel, unlimited mobility is a birthright, companies are immoral, and consumers don't want lower prices. Got it. Sarcasm intended.
 
iamlucky13
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:21 pm

SteelChair wrote:
Both major manufacturers (A and B) seem to brag about cutting costs by using suppliers. Then, after they cut the suppliers to the bone and the suppliers are unable to produce in adequate numbers with requisite quality, they throw those same suppliers under the bus.


This is true, but the problem has shared responsibility.

The primary manufacturer needs to recognize their dependence on the viability of the vendors, but the vendors also need to be realistic about what they promise. That's something the vendor is the expert on, not their customer. I've seen numerous instances of a 1st tier manufacturer demanding as much as they think they can get (be it rate, schedule, performance, or price), a vendor agreeing to it, and then failing to deliver what they promised.

I've also seen vendors refuse, lose a bid as a result, the winner fail to deliver, and the losing vendor win the next round because their competitor ruined their own reputation by promising what they couldn't deliver.

And I've also seen vendors refuse terms, the customer re-evaluate their requirements in response, realize they are unrealistic, and issue new requirements, taking an especially critical look at vendors who promise things their competition says can't be done.

I've also been privy to contract negotiations where these risks are discussed during the bid process and good faith efforts made to decide which party is responsible for managing which risks. Very often the customer accepts risks in order to get the vendor to attempt to fulfill requirements they believe can be met, but will not guarantee, because it is beyond the scope of anything the vendors competing for the work has done before. Tiered requirements with associated incentive payments are one way of handling these cases.
 
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EMBSPBR
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:39 pm

Now official:

Source: http://atwonline.com/aircraft-orders-de ... e-canceled

Gulf Air has confirmed to ATW that it has canceled an order for 10 CSALP CS100 regional jets.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:55 pm

SteelChair wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
SteelChair wrote:

Both major manufacturers (A and B) seem to brag about cutting costs by using suppliers. Then, after they cut the suppliers to the bone and the suppliers are unable to produce in adequate numbers with requisite quality, they throw those same suppliers under the bus.


To a degree that describes the entire food chain. Airlines, for example, squeeze A and B for every cent and concession. Then, when things don’t go the way they expected they throw them under the bus. I’m of course speaking generically, and you’re right, there’s not a lot of loyalty out there.


Agree, but you forgot the first squeeze, the airline customer, who continually demands more for less from the airline, as if cheap air travel was a birthright.

Customers expect to pay less in established markets than emerging markets and thus profits are less. Adam Smith wrote a book on that. In 1776 called Wealth of Nations.

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
Nicoeddf
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:04 pm

SteelChair wrote:
Nicoeddf wrote:
SteelChair wrote:

Agree, but you forgot the first squeeze, the airline customer, who continually demands more for less from the airline, as if cheap air travel was a birthright.


Thats not quite how it is. The consumer has an average amount of money to spend on mobility. Mobility actually is a birthright in some countries, Germany to name one. Back in the time, this average amount wasn't buying you an airline ticket. Nowadays Airlines have tapped this potential by offering seats priced within this certain amount of money. They are able to do that by squeezing out every tiny bit of efficiency, moral or not.

Hence, no, the consumer is not asking/pushing for lower prices actively. The consumer is offering spending power and the lower the airlines are able to price a ticket, the larger the possible market reach gets.


Everyone has the same amount of money to spend on travel, unlimited mobility is a birthright, companies are immoral, and consumers don't want lower prices. Got it. Sarcasm intended.


Haha, you remind within minutes of my post, why it is a total waste of time to reply on anonymous internet forums. And I am doing it again. ;) But I help your reading comprehension skills for your next try in replying sensibly:

"Everyone" does not equal "average amount"
"Mobility" does not equal "unlimited mobility"
"efficiency" does not equal "immoral"
"consumer don't want lower prices" does not equal "actively pushing for it"

Better luck next time! :)
Enslave yourself to the divine disguised as salvation
that your bought with your sacrifice
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PlanesNTrains
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:59 pm

JoeCanuck wrote:
I just saw a blurb from Leeham where they speculate that the Emb is part of a long range goal towards the NMA...a bit like I suspect Airbus is planning for the CSeries. Basically, I'm thinking the CSeries will become their small aircraft with the CS500 taking the slot occupied by the 320. Airbus can then concentrate on making their MOM offering optimized around either a re winged 321 and/or something all new.

There's little that the 320 can do now that a CS couldn't do better in the near future. They can start with a simple(ish) stretch to MD-90ish size. With pip's coming down the pike, as Lightsaber suggests, it should be able to do full load transcons by the early to mid 2020's...right when the 320 should be winding down. If they really want to go crazy with it, they can maybe put the big engines from the 320 under the wing, stuff it full of fuel and really see how far it could fly.

On one hand, losing a couple of contenders to the big two is a bit of a bummer, but it has given us some interesting stuff to speculate about.


The CSeries really is a great fit and solution for Airbus in the lower end of the narrowbody category. Not sure how the E2 fits that role at Boeing as there would seem to be a gap between it and the NMA. With the CSeries, they can do a CS500 and this will give Airbus a lot of flexibility in how it responds to the NSA/NMA moving forward. I think Boeing will still need two clean sheets, vs potentially one for Airbus (if they can make it flexible enough to cover the gap).

EMBSPBR wrote:
Now official:

Source: http://atwonline.com/aircraft-orders-de ... e-canceled

Gulf Air has confirmed to ATW that it has canceled an order for 10 CSALP CS100 regional jets.


And Embraer is Johnny on the spot. :-)
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
JoeCanuck
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:14 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
JoeCanuck wrote:
I just saw a blurb from Leeham where they speculate that the Emb is part of a long range goal towards the NMA...a bit like I suspect Airbus is planning for the CSeries. Basically, I'm thinking the CSeries will become their small aircraft with the CS500 taking the slot occupied by the 320. Airbus can then concentrate on making their MOM offering optimized around either a re winged 321 and/or something all new.

There's little that the 320 can do now that a CS couldn't do better in the near future. They can start with a simple(ish) stretch to MD-90ish size. With pip's coming down the pike, as Lightsaber suggests, it should be able to do full load transcons by the early to mid 2020's...right when the 320 should be winding down. If they really want to go crazy with it, they can maybe put the big engines from the 320 under the wing, stuff it full of fuel and really see how far it could fly.

On one hand, losing a couple of contenders to the big two is a bit of a bummer, but it has given us some interesting stuff to speculate about.


The CSeries really is a great fit and solution for Airbus in the lower end of the narrowbody category. Not sure how the E2 fits that role at Boeing as there would seem to be a gap between it and the NMA. With the CSeries, they can do a CS500 and this will give Airbus a lot of flexibility in how it responds to the NSA/NMA moving forward. I think Boeing will still need two clean sheets, vs potentially one for Airbus (if they can make it flexible enough to cover the gap).

EMBSPBR wrote:
Now official:

Source: http://atwonline.com/aircraft-orders-de ... e-canceled

Gulf Air has confirmed to ATW that it has canceled an order for 10 CSALP CS100 regional jets.


And Embraer is Johnny on the spot. :-)


Leehan did suggest that Boeing may not be as interested in the E2 as they are in the R&D, production and cost savings potential of Emb's operations in Brazil, for their NSA of the future and for parts production savings for other models.
What the...?
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:17 pm

JoeCanuck wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
JoeCanuck wrote:
I just saw a blurb from Leeham where they speculate that the Emb is part of a long range goal towards the NMA...a bit like I suspect Airbus is planning for the CSeries. Basically, I'm thinking the CSeries will become their small aircraft with the CS500 taking the slot occupied by the 320. Airbus can then concentrate on making their MOM offering optimized around either a re winged 321 and/or something all new.

There's little that the 320 can do now that a CS couldn't do better in the near future. They can start with a simple(ish) stretch to MD-90ish size. With pip's coming down the pike, as Lightsaber suggests, it should be able to do full load transcons by the early to mid 2020's...right when the 320 should be winding down. If they really want to go crazy with it, they can maybe put the big engines from the 320 under the wing, stuff it full of fuel and really see how far it could fly.

On one hand, losing a couple of contenders to the big two is a bit of a bummer, but it has given us some interesting stuff to speculate about.


The CSeries really is a great fit and solution for Airbus in the lower end of the narrowbody category. Not sure how the E2 fits that role at Boeing as there would seem to be a gap between it and the NMA. With the CSeries, they can do a CS500 and this will give Airbus a lot of flexibility in how it responds to the NSA/NMA moving forward. I think Boeing will still need two clean sheets, vs potentially one for Airbus (if they can make it flexible enough to cover the gap).

EMBSPBR wrote:
Now official:

Source: http://atwonline.com/aircraft-orders-de ... e-canceled

Gulf Air has confirmed to ATW that it has canceled an order for 10 CSALP CS100 regional jets.


And Embraer is Johnny on the spot. :-)


Leehan did suggest that Boeing may not be as interested in the E2 as they are in the R&D, production and cost savings potential of Emb's operations in Brazil, for their NSA of the future and for parts production savings for other models.


Ok, yes, that makes perfect sense. Thank you.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
Someone83
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:05 am

Next for Korean delivered

Bombardier CS 300 55026 HL8311 Korean Air delivery 09-11jul18 YMX-ANC-CTS-GMP ex C-FOWV
 
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Quantos
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:43 pm

Quantos,

I maintain the Airbus A220 (formerly Bombardier C Series) Aircraft Status sheet: https://goo.gl/HZshto
Feel free to comment on the sheet with any improvement suggestions and data update requests! Thanks to Paolo92 for his advice!
 
SteelChair
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:09 pm

Nicoeddf wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
Nicoeddf wrote:

Thats not quite how it is. The consumer has an average amount of money to spend on mobility. Mobility actually is a birthright in some countries, Germany to name one. Back in the time, this average amount wasn't buying you an airline ticket. Nowadays Airlines have tapped this potential by offering seats priced within this certain amount of money. They are able to do that by squeezing out every tiny bit of efficiency, moral or not.

Hence, no, the consumer is not asking/pushing for lower prices actively. The consumer is offering spending power and the lower the airlines are able to price a ticket, the larger the possible market reach gets.


Everyone has the same amount of money to spend on travel, unlimited mobility is a birthright, companies are immoral, and consumers don't want lower prices. Got it. Sarcasm intended.


Haha, you remind within minutes of my post, why it is a total waste of time to reply on anonymous internet forums. And I am doing it again. ;) But I help your reading comprehension skills for your next try in replying sensibly:

"Everyone" does not equal "average amount"
"Mobility" does not equal "unlimited mobility"
"efficiency" does not equal "immoral"
"consumer don't want lower prices" does not equal "actively pushing for it"

Better luck next time! :)


Your obfuscation is embarassing . Customers almost always want more service/goods/etc for less price. ...full stop end of story.
 
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c933103
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:54 pm

Someone83 wrote:
Next for Korean delivered

Bombardier CS 300 55026 HL8311 Korean Air delivery 09-11jul18 YMX-ANC-CTS-GMP ex C-FOWV

Is it the last aircraft delivering as Cseries?
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate. 求同存異. よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
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keesje
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Re: CSeries Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:20 pm

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
CRJ900
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:47 pm

Must airBaltic, SWISS and Korean rebrand their in-service aircraft and all manuals etc or can they be stubborn and say "we bought CSeries and they're gonna stay that way!"?
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
golfradio
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:20 pm

CRJ900 wrote:
Must airBaltic, SWISS and Korean rebrand their in-service aircraft and all manuals etc or can they be stubborn and say "we bought CSeries and they're gonna stay that way!"?


The FAA/EASA type certificate and pilot type ratings will always say BD-500 (1A10 for CS100 and 1A11 for CS300). That will never change for those two types. Everything else including the model on the flight safety cards is just marketing material. CS100 and CS300 was, is and always will be a BBD achievement.
CSeries forever. Bring back the old site.
 
Someone83
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:29 am

Next delivery

Bombardier CS 300 55028 HL8312 Korean Air delivery 10-12aug18 YMX-ANC-CTS-GMP ex C-FOYE
 
Obzerva
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:43 am

golfradio wrote:
CRJ900 wrote:
Must airBaltic, SWISS and Korean rebrand their in-service aircraft and all manuals etc or can they be stubborn and say "we bought CSeries and they're gonna stay that way!"?


The FAA/EASA type certificate and pilot type ratings will always say BD-500 (1A10 for CS100 and 1A11 for CS300). That will never change for those two types. Everything else including the model on the flight safety cards is just marketing material. CS100 and CS300 was, is and always will be a BBD achievement.


Do the GDS codes change at all? notice they’re still CS1 and CS3
 
SteelChair
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:33 pm

55036 was delivered August 20. Does anyone know the firing order? Will they make 3 this month as they have te last few?
 
yyztpa
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:48 am

55039 delivered to Air Baltic on August 24th. I think now for the first time in a long time, there are no aircraft in flight testing.
 
SteelChair
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Sat Aug 25, 2018 1:08 pm

yyztpa wrote:
55039 delivered to Air Baltic on August 24th. I think now for the first time in a long time, there are no aircraft in flight testing.


Yes, the pace for first flights seem to have slowed down. I wonder what is going on?
 
LewisNEO
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Sat Aug 25, 2018 1:45 pm

SteelChair wrote:
yyztpa wrote:
55039 delivered to Air Baltic on August 24th. I think now for the first time in a long time, there are no aircraft in flight testing.


Yes, the pace for first flights seem to have slowed down. I wonder what is going on?


It could be the holiday season, other manufacturers seem to slow down also in August.
You are the wind beneath my wings.

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lightsaber
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Sat Aug 25, 2018 2:03 pm

I'm happy to see deliveries. I'll be happier when the aircraft held by Bombardier are off the first page of the opperator summary.

Any timeline for Moxy to firm their order?

I was thinking how JetBlue and Moxy alone we're enough to save the A220 sales for a year.

Any whispers on other sales campaigns? My news is stale.

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
SteelChair
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Sat Aug 25, 2018 3:17 pm

lightsaber wrote:
I'm happy to see deliveries. I'll be happier when the aircraft held by Bombardier are off the first page of the opperator summary.

Any timeline for Moxy to firm their order?

I was thinking how JetBlue and Moxy alone we're enough to save the A220 sales for a year.

Any whispers on other sales campaigns? My news is stale.

Lightsaber


Do you have a linky for that operator summary?

I haven't heard any rumors of new orders, but you forgot the airBaltic top up. Perhaps the lack of near term delivery slots/slow production are affecting orders. I see great merit in this program and think as the airplane continues to prove itself and the delivery rate increases, more orders will come. Delta is the next new operator, and then Air Canada i believe, and both of those are sizeable orders.

Edit: I was surprised at how far out most of the JetBlue deliveries were. I guess most of their planes will come from BFM. At current rates of production those 2 orders are more like 4 years production.
 
Someone83
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Sat Aug 25, 2018 3:42 pm

lightsaber wrote:

Any timeline for Moxy to firm their order?


Guess the airline itself har to be «firm» first ?
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Sat Aug 25, 2018 4:24 pm

SteelChair wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
I'm happy to see deliveries. I'll be happier when the aircraft held by Bombardier are off the first page of the opperator summary.

Any timeline for Moxy to firm their order?

I was thinking how JetBlue and Moxy alone we're enough to save the A220 sales for a year.

Any whispers on other sales campaigns? My news is stale.

Lightsaber


Do you have a linky for that operator summary?

I haven't heard any rumors of new orders, but you forgot the airBaltic top up. Perhaps the lack of near term delivery slots/slow production are affecting orders. I see great merit in this program and think as the airplane continues to prove itself and the delivery rate increases, more orders will come. Delta is the next new operator, and then Air Canada i believe, and both of those are sizeable orders.

Edit: I was surprised at how far out most of the JetBlue deliveries were. I guess most of their planes will come from BFM. At current rates of production those 2 orders are more like 4 years production.

Oops, here is the link:
https://www.airfleets.net/exploit/production-csr.htm

Yes, Air Baltic, Moxy, and JetBlue are quite a bit of production. I'm not surprised how far out the deliveries are due to E190 lease terms.

I see tremendous merit. Next step is hopefully a DL top off and a few small orders (e.g., Kenya).

I'm so curious on Spirit, but there is absolutely no reason for them to rush. They could stick with the A320 too.

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
SteelChair
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Sat Aug 25, 2018 6:09 pm

lightsaber wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
I'm happy to see deliveries. I'll be happier when the aircraft held by Bombardier are off the first page of the opperator summary.

Any timeline for Moxy to firm their order?

I was thinking how JetBlue and Moxy alone we're enough to save the A220 sales for a year.

Any whispers on other sales campaigns? My news is stale.

Lightsaber


Do you have a linky for that operator summary?

I haven't heard any rumors of new orders, but you forgot the airBaltic top up. Perhaps the lack of near term delivery slots/slow production are affecting orders. I see great merit in this program and think as the airplane continues to prove itself and the delivery rate increases, more orders will come. Delta is the next new operator, and then Air Canada i believe, and both of those are sizeable orders.

Edit: I was surprised at how far out most of the JetBlue deliveries were. I guess most of their planes will come from BFM. At current rates of production those 2 orders are more like 4 years production.

Oops, here is the link:
https://www.airfleets.net/exploit/production-csr.htm

Yes, Air Baltic, Moxy, and JetBlue are quite a bit of production. I'm not surprised how far out the deliveries are due to E190 lease terms.

I see tremendous merit. Next step is hopefully a DL top off and a few small orders (e.g., Kenya).

I'm so curious on Spirit, but there is absolutely no reason for them to rush. They could stick with the A320 too.

Lightsaber


They really need another US or European major to place a big order imho.
 
777Mech
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Sat Aug 25, 2018 7:03 pm

DL's first A220 has been powered on for the first time back on the 20th.
 
Jetsouth
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Sat Aug 25, 2018 7:11 pm

Just checking deliveries, and so far this year, only +-17 jets have been delivered. Extrapolated, that means about 25 deliveries for the year, far less than the 40 forecast. And that is after far below forecast deliveries in 2016 and 2017. Unless something drastic happens, they just cannot take any large orders for the jet, as the they just cannot produce
 
SteelChair
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:04 pm

I'm guessing about 30-32 deliveries for this year.

The problem appears to be completion, the existing primary assembly line can do 10/month (suppliers probably arent ramped up that high yet). I anticipate the YMX deliveries continuing to slowly ramp up as the BFM facility is built. Last news I saw regarding BFM was that they were only going to built a FAL 1 type facility, completion and painting will be shared with the existing A320 series facilities.

Supposedly, one of the advantages Airbus brought was the ability to squeeze the subcontractors. 15% was mentioned. I wonder if those contracts have been renegotiated yet and if that has contributed to the slowness in ramping up production rate. (Sorry i edited my post and added this paragraph just as exmilitaryeng was making his post, he kinda answered my question)

I don't see Southwest ever being allowed to buy these. Boeing just won't let that happen, they'll do whatever it takes to keep Southwest imho.
Last edited by SteelChair on Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:27 pm, edited 4 times in total.
 
ExMilitaryEng
Posts: 643
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 7:12 pm

Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:16 pm

Airbus is currently negociating with suppliers to shave costs (in exchange for more volume).

Absolutely no points in investing $ to increase production while those suppliers stick with those uncompetitive conditions.
 
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keesje
Posts: 14118
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:49 pm

A220 serie production is just starting. To project this production rate on the future seems odd. I can see the production rate up to 10-15 a month in a few years.

Image

Low empty weight, low noise, no direct competition, proven performance and a large replacement market seem the ingredients.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
SteelChair
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Re: Airbus A220 (CSeries) Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Sun Aug 26, 2018 4:17 am

It's a virtual certainty imho.
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