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undertheradar
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Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:08 am

Thanks 'vhebb' for the confirmations...I agree, and will place my money on -EBL and -EBG (when it gets done) on having Y ipad IFE seatback to bring them in line with the 28J product..only the 27J will have fixed Y seatback IFE... So when all is said n done - EBA/B/C/D/E/F/G/L will be 28J with Y ipad and 'domestic' WIFI hump, AND -EBM/N/O/P/Q/R/S/V will be 27J with Y fixed screen IFE.
 
smi0006
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Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:49 am

Be interesting to see if QF would move to a hybrid IFE platform for the 738 like delta has for the C-Series - tablets and streaming - but are fixed to the seat so look like a standard IFE screen. Even just for business class, especially with 738 flying to DPS, NAN and SIN.

I’d imagine the damage done to the iPads due to broken charging cables and people trying to steal them would be not huge, but combined with removing them off the aircraft for inspect etc- maybe better to fix them in the seat.

I know I’m an odd one out of this site, but I hate using my personal device to stream would much rather some form of PTV!
 
smi0006
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Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:50 am

Be interesting to see if QF would move to a hybrid IFE platform for the 738 like delta has for the C-Series - tablets and streaming - but are fixed to the seat so look like a standard IFE screen. Even just for business class, especially with 738 flying to DPS, NAN and SIN.

I’d imagine the damage done to the iPads due to broken charging cables and people trying to steal them would be not huge, but combined with removing them off the aircraft for inspect etc- maybe better to fix them in the seat.

I know I’m an odd one out of this site, but I hate using my personal device to stream would much rather some form of PTV!
 
qf002
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Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:59 am

smi0006 wrote:
Be interesting to see if QF would move to a hybrid IFE platform for the 738 like delta has for the C-Series - tablets and streaming - but are fixed to the seat so look like a standard IFE screen. Even just for business class, especially with 738 flying to DPS, NAN and SIN.


About a third of the 738 fleet already has PTVs and they are pretty good at making sure that these are the aircraft used on international routes.

Something for them to think about when replacing the 737s though, these long routes really do need a proper integrated IFE system and not just BYOD or messy iPads in J.
 
moa999
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Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:50 am

I suspect QF is more likely to continue BYO only
After 10 years the IFE units look ancient eg. The soon to be retired Rockwell Collins units on OEB and EBL.

Even the 737 units are small and not full hd and showing their age versus a 10" tablet
 
HM7
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Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:33 am

Does anyone think we’ll get to see a 747 in the new livery before they go? Or is it too costly if theyre gonna be retired in two years?
CRJ200, Q400, E175, E195, MD88, MD90, A320, A332, A380, B717, B734, B738, B739, B752, B762, B763ER, B789, B744, B744ER
 
moa999
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Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:55 am

No chance
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:39 am

HM7 wrote:
Does anyone think we’ll get to see a 747 in the new livery before they go? Or is it too costly if theyre gonna be retired in two years?


No, it's not a coincidence that the due date for painting the entire fleet and the expected retirement date for the 747s are the same.
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Flyerqf
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Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:52 pm

Is OJU now retired?
 
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zululima
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Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:29 am

Flyerqf wrote:
Is OJU now retired?


Of course not. It's scheduled to JNB in 6 minutes.
I didn't get a 'Harumph' outta that guy!
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:21 am

moa999 wrote:
So once the reconfigs are complete we should be left with only two Configs for the 332:
10 domestic with iPads and 28/243; and
8 international with seatback IFE and 27/224

4 of the iPad aircraft are 2002-2003 deliveries, the remaining 8 are 2007-2008.
The international aircraft are newer again at 2010-2012.


Forgive me but I'm still slightly confused by the IFE situation on the A330s.

The 10 "Domestic" aircraft do not have built in screens at all? Are the iPads still provided or is it streaming to your own device? The 717s used to have iPads provided but they stopped that and it's now BYO.

The 8 "International" aircraft do have AVOD but it's a different system to the A333s. Do they still have the tiny screens that might have been cutting edge in 1998, or have they updated to a more modern system?

Thanks in advance, I've tried working it out from the other responses in this thread and I'm just getting more and more confused!
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travelhound
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Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:26 am

Gemuser wrote:
qf002 wrote:
tkoenig95 wrote:
With a 738 fleet of 75 will management begin a replacement plan? Maybe the MAX or NEO family?


They probably won't start replacing 738s until ~2025. No reason why these aircraft shouldn't keep flying to 25+ years, especially if they keep the cabins looking fresh.

IMHO B738 replacement to start 2022 at the earliest, 2027 at the latest, so still time to place orders.

Gemuser


QANTAS domestic has been loosing approximately 2 percent of the market over the last three years. Their share of the market (which includes QANTASlink) is now hovering just below 40%.

In contrast VA have been growing by 3-4% pa for the last three years. Considering they have consolidated their operations around the 737, they will have the opportunity to lower their unit costs as they grow their market share. They currently have around 37% of the market (excluding TigerAir).

I'd suggest the current QANTAS business / revenue management plan will remain viable for another 1-2 years. I can't see how underinvestment in aircraft (for replacement and growth) can be viable past 2022 where the average fleet age will be more than 15 years.
Last edited by travelhound on Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
qf002
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Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:29 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
The 10 "Domestic" aircraft do not have built in screens at all? Are the iPads still provided or is it streaming to your own device? The 717s used to have iPads provided but they stopped that and it's now BYO.


iPad Minis still provided.

RyanairGuru wrote:
The 8 "International" aircraft do have AVOD but it's a different system to the A333s. Do they still have the tiny screens that might have been cutting edge in 1998, or have they updated to a more modern system?


They have the same system as the A380s/744s but with a slightly smaller 9” screen (Panasonic ex2 I think). These eight aircraft were delivered from the factory with PTVs so it made sense to leave them in during the refurbs.
 
moa999
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Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:40 am

The 'tiny' screens are the old Rockwell Collins square screens - still present on 332 EBG and 747 OEB but both will be refurbed/retired early next year
(And were cutting edge in 2008 - how quickly things change. Remember Virgin Blues even smaller Live2Air screens in the 737 - https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2007/08/revi ... r_infligh/ )
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:57 am

qf002 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
The 10 "Domestic" aircraft do not have built in screens at all? Are the iPads still provided or is it streaming to your own device? The 717s used to have iPads provided but they stopped that and it's now BYO.


iPad Minis still provided.



They weren't provided on my last ~10 flights on the 717.

And thanks for the info on the A332s, that makes sense now.
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moa999
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Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:23 am

It seems they are still provided on the 332s,

But not on the 717s or 737s without SIFE (38 versus 37 with seatback screens) which are BYO only.
 
Gemuser
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Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:50 am

travelhound wrote:
Gemuser wrote:
qf002 wrote:

They probably won't start replacing 738s until ~2025. No reason why these aircraft shouldn't keep flying to 25+ years, especially if they keep the cabins looking fresh.

IMHO B738 replacement to start 2022 at the earliest, 2027 at the latest, so still time to place orders.

Gemuser


QANTAS domestic has been loosing approximately 2 percent of the market over the last three years. Their share of the market (which includes QANTASlink) is now hovering just below 40%.

In contrast VA have been growing by 3-4% pa for the last three years. Considering they have consolidated their operations around the 737, they will have the opportunity to lower their unit costs as they grow their market share. They currently have around 37% of the market (excluding TigerAir).

I'd suggest the current QANTAS business / revenue management plan will remain viable for another 1-2 years. I can't see how underinvestment in aircraft (for replacement and growth) can be viable past 2022 where the average fleet age will be more than 15 years.

I fail to see what the age of the QF B737 fleet has to do with their market share PROVIDED they keep the maintenance up so the aircraft do not become unreliable AND the cabin is kept up to date. QF has been pretty good in doing so in the past.

Gemuser
 
smi0006
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Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:58 am

Gemuser wrote:
travelhound wrote:
Gemuser wrote:
IMHO B738 replacement to start 2022 at the earliest, 2027 at the latest, so still time to place orders.

Gemuser


QANTAS domestic has been loosing approximately 2 percent of the market over the last three years. Their share of the market (which includes QANTASlink) is now hovering just below 40%.

In contrast VA have been growing by 3-4% pa for the last three years. Considering they have consolidated their operations around the 737, they will have the opportunity to lower their unit costs as they grow their market share. They currently have around 37% of the market (excluding TigerAir).

I'd suggest the current QANTAS business / revenue management plan will remain viable for another 1-2 years. I can't see how underinvestment in aircraft (for replacement and growth) can be viable past 2022 where the average fleet age will be more than 15 years.

I fail to see what the age of the QF B737 fleet has to do with their market share PROVIDED they keep the maintenance up so the aircraft do not become unreliable AND the cabin is kept up to date. QF has been pretty good in doing so in the past.

Gemuser


I do wonder how JQ has grown in that time also, QF also have their JQ 320/321Neos they could reallocate if needed.
 
travelhound
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Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:18 am

Gemuser wrote:
travelhound wrote:
Gemuser wrote:
IMHO B738 replacement to start 2022 at the earliest, 2027 at the latest, so still time to place orders.

Gemuser


QANTAS domestic has been loosing approximately 2 percent of the market over the last three years. Their share of the market (which includes QANTASlink) is now hovering just below 40%.

In contrast VA have been growing by 3-4% pa for the last three years. Considering they have consolidated their operations around the 737, they will have the opportunity to lower their unit costs as they grow their market share. They currently have around 37% of the market (excluding TigerAir).

I'd suggest the current QANTAS business / revenue management plan will remain viable for another 1-2 years. I can't see how underinvestment in aircraft (for replacement and growth) can be viable past 2022 where the average fleet age will be more than 15 years.

I fail to see what the age of the QF B737 fleet has to do with their market share PROVIDED they keep the maintenance up so the aircraft do not become unreliable AND the cabin is kept up to date. QF has been pretty good in doing so in the past.

Gemuser


With the Australian market growing by 3% pa, on face value QF should be adding 2.25 737's to it fleet every year. Considering QF have lost 4% of the market over the last 3-4 years and 1% of the market typically requires around 3.5 aircraft, QF have (on face value) underinvested in new aircraft. The caveat of course revolves around aircraft replacement cycles (often revolving on new aircraft types).

The danger for QANTAS is that Virgin Australia could become structurally a larger airline. I suspect, with a cleanout of the airline shareholders, VA could be ripe for new investment.
 
anstar
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Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:07 am

travelhound wrote:
With the Australian market growing by 3% pa, on face value QF should be adding 2.25 737's to it fleet every year. Considering QF have lost 4% of the market over the last 3-4 years and 1% of the market typically requires around 3.5 aircraft, QF have (on face value) underinvested in new aircraft. The caveat of course revolves around aircraft replacement cycles (often revolving on new aircraft types).

The danger for QANTAS is that Virgin Australia could become structurally a larger airline. I suspect, with a cleanout of the airline shareholders, VA could be ripe for new investment.


Is that a danger? I mean thats just Qantas mainline you are talking about. Add in Jetstar and Qantaslink and the roles they play I don't think QF have anything to be worried about.
 
Gemuser
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Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:21 am

travelhound wrote:
Gemuser wrote:
travelhound wrote:
I fail to see what the age of the QF B737 fleet has to do with their market share PROVIDED they keep the maintenance up so the aircraft do not become unreliable AND the cabin is kept up to date. QF has been pretty good in doing so in the past.

Gemuser


With the Australian market growing by 3% pa, on face value QF should be adding 2.25 737's to it fleet every year. Considering QF have lost 4% of the market over the last 3-4 years and 1% of the market typically requires around 3.5 aircraft, QF have (on face value) underinvested in new aircraft. The caveat of course revolves around aircraft replacement cycles (often revolving on new aircraft types).

The danger for QANTAS is that Virgin Australia could become structurally a larger airline. I suspect, with a cleanout of the airline shareholders, VA could be ripe for new investment.

IMHO that is greatly simplified. They don't need to add 2.25 B737s, they need an equivalent number of seats which to some extent can be covered by increasing load factors. Yes that is somewhat simplified too. It assumes that there are seats available, it ignores peak demand & a host of other factors that QF or any airline can move around to suit circumstance on a day to day basis. There is also the perennial capex problem. Bottom line, it's more complex than that! That is not to say that QF should not pay close attention to their fleet replacement plans,which I'm sure they do, hopefully they don't screw it up!

Gemuser
 
moa999
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Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:48 am

And while VA may have been growing share, it hasn't helped its profitability. Giving some share back to Tiger in particular was to be expected.

I wouldn't be surprised if there are no new 737s at Qantas for a while. I'd expect QF to be an early taker of the 797 to replace the first 21 737s (VX* from 02/03) and the earliest 4 332s for domestic operations.

Only possibility would be an order of the LR Max10 or 321neo with a proper business seat for thinner international routes
 
Flyerqf
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Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:45 am

zululima wrote:
Flyerqf wrote:
Is OJU now retired?


Of course not. It's scheduled to JNB in 6 minutes.

So which one is scheduled to be retired before the end of December or has this retirement been cancelled?
 
moa999
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Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:47 am

See post #427. OJS listed first.
 
Flyerqf
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Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:58 am

moa999 wrote:
See post #427. OJS listed first.

L
Thanks - helpful info. Originally qantas had said 1 would be retired by end of December as the 744 has been taken out of 2 routes in December - being HKG (from SYD daily) and LAX (BNE 3pw)
 
qf002
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Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:21 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
They weren't provided on my last ~10 flights on the 717.

And thanks for the info on the A332s, that makes sense now.


Yes, just the A330s now for Y.

Weren’t the iPads on the 717s full-size iPads rather than Minis? Or maybe I’m getting confused with the 767s.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:24 am

qf002 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
They weren't provided on my last ~10 flights on the 717.

And thanks for the info on the A332s, that makes sense now.


Yes, just the A330s now for Y.

Weren’t the iPads on the 717s full-size iPads rather than Minis? Or maybe I’m getting confused with the 767s.


The 717s had iPad Minis and the 767s had standard sized iPads.
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travelhound
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Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:27 am

Gemuser wrote:
travelhound wrote:
Gemuser wrote:

With the Australian market growing by 3% pa, on face value QF should be adding 2.25 737's to it fleet every year. Considering QF have lost 4% of the market over the last 3-4 years and 1% of the market typically requires around 3.5 aircraft, QF have (on face value) underinvested in new aircraft. The caveat of course revolves around aircraft replacement cycles (often revolving on new aircraft types).

The danger for QANTAS is that Virgin Australia could become structurally a larger airline. I suspect, with a cleanout of the airline shareholders, VA could be ripe for new investment.

IMHO that is greatly simplified. They don't need to add 2.25 B737s, they need an equivalent number of seats which to some extent can be covered by increasing load factors. Yes that is somewhat simplified too. It assumes that there are seats available, it ignores peak demand & a host of other factors that QF or any airline can move around to suit circumstance on a day to day basis. There is also the perennial capex problem. Bottom line, it's more complex than that! That is not to say that QF should not pay close attention to their fleet replacement plans,which I'm sure they do, hopefully they don't screw it up!

Gemuser


Not saying QANTAS have screwed up / are screwing up their fleet plan.

I have just made an observation that QANTAS has been loosing market share, whilst at the same time not investing in new aircraft. Considering they have been recording record profits and generating a lot of cash, this isn't too surprising.

As a general rule, in the airline industry there is a direct correlation between CAPEX expenditure and ROI (over the longer term).

The QANTAS Date Book has a fair amount of information on markets, fleet sizes, etc.

https://investor.qantas.com/FormBuilder ... tabook.pdf
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:40 am

travelhound wrote:
Gemuser wrote:
travelhound wrote:

IMHO that is greatly simplified. They don't need to add 2.25 B737s, they need an equivalent number of seats which to some extent can be covered by increasing load factors. Yes that is somewhat simplified too. It assumes that there are seats available, it ignores peak demand & a host of other factors that QF or any airline can move around to suit circumstance on a day to day basis. There is also the perennial capex problem. Bottom line, it's more complex than that! That is not to say that QF should not pay close attention to their fleet replacement plans,which I'm sure they do, hopefully they don't screw it up!

Gemuser


Not saying QANTAS have screwed up / are screwing up their fleet plan.

I have just made an observation that QANTAS has been loosing market share, whilst at the same time not investing in new aircraft. Considering they have been recording record profits and generating a lot of cash, this isn't too surprising.

As a general rule, in the airline industry there is a direct correlation between CAPEX expenditure and ROI (over the longer term).

The QANTAS Date Book has a fair amount of information on markets, fleet sizes, etc.

https://investor.qantas.com/FormBuilder ... tabook.pdf


Sorry for being pedantic but this is a real bug-bear of mine. It's Qantas, not QANTAS, and has been since 1934.

I'm struggling to understand what point you are actually making, but if you are suggesting that declining market share correlates to aircraft age then that is a false equivalence. Qantas are in a fortunate position where their oldest 737 is only 16 years old and has another 5-9 years of life left. They don't need to replace those aircraft yet. Declining market share is a factor of not growing as fast a the market, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing as it is forcing yields up. Most of the growth in demand is in all honesty coming at the LCC end of the market so if VA are growing in line with that demand then that puts them in a precarious position. Really growth at the moment should be left to JQ and TT.
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georgiabill
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Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:05 pm

Will QF have another top off order for 789'S in 2019 perhaps 4-6 or will the choose to order the 787J for asian routes? For narrow body orders I could see a split order of 737-8 Max and 321Neo's for higher demand routes.
 
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qf2220
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Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:03 am

DeltaB717 wrote:
The transfer of all eight Jetconnect B738s 'back' to mainline is now complete. ZK-ZQH / VH-VZQ has entered mainline service this morning as QF798 BNE-CNS.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/VHVZQ/history/1280


Its been a while since I knew what was happening with JC, but from this they are no longer operating on their own AOC? Is all flying now ex Australia on VH and the QF AOC? So JC is now a NZ labor hire company to QF?
 
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qf2220
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Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:09 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
where their oldest 737 is only 16 years old and has another 5-9 years of life left.


Question, as it is not addressed in the investor updates that i can find, is the fleet age weighted by seats at all? Or are older 744s given equal prominence to younger 738s, for example?
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:01 am

qf2220 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
where their oldest 737 is only 16 years old and has another 5-9 years of life left.


Question, as it is not addressed in the investor updates that i can find, is the fleet age weighted by seats at all? Or are older 744s given equal prominence to younger 738s, for example?


Apologies I don't understand your question, are you able to re-phrase?
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qantas747
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Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:30 am

georgiabill wrote:
Will QF have another top off order for 789'S in 2019 perhaps 4-6 or will the choose to order the 787J for asian routes? For narrow body orders I could see a split order of 737-8 Max and 321Neo's for higher demand routes.


I can see a further topup order in 2019 for more 789s but I think they are being patient with the narrowbody plan until further clarity comes from the touted MOM plane that Boeing are developing. Combined with a fleet decision on what will operate Project Sunrise.

I do think that since the 300 seat requirement dropped, that this tends to favour an A35X provided that it can meet the requirements. That way QF could use the deposits for the unwated 8 380s and leave Boeing as a front runner for a combined max/797 order. I do think that a potential deal with Airbus would involve A220s as part of a 717 replacement deal if those planes can be proven in the FIFO market.

Lots of ifs and buts but I see Qf moving to something like this over a 10yr period

8 A380s refurbished and flying until 2030s (retire 4)
12-16 project sunrise/ higher capacity long range (A35XLR)
4-8 789s to top up and help provide growth on longer-thin routes (growth to africa/americas)
20-30 MOM type aircraft as part of a longer term 330 replacement
20-24 A220s to replace 717s
70-80 737MAX (probably a headling grabbing order of up to 100)

What do you think the QF fleet will look like in 5-10yrs time?
 
Sydscott
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Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:22 am

qantas747 wrote:
georgiabill wrote:
Will QF have another top off order for 789'S in 2019 perhaps 4-6 or will the choose to order the 787J for asian routes? For narrow body orders I could see a split order of 737-8 Max and 321Neo's for higher demand routes.


I can see a further topup order in 2019 for more 789s but I think they are being patient with the narrowbody plan until further clarity comes from the touted MOM plane that Boeing are developing. Combined with a fleet decision on what will operate Project Sunrise.

I do think that since the 300 seat requirement dropped, that this tends to favour an A35X provided that it can meet the requirements. That way QF could use the deposits for the unwated 8 380s and leave Boeing as a front runner for a combined max/797 order. I do think that a potential deal with Airbus would involve A220s as part of a 717 replacement deal if those planes can be proven in the FIFO market.

Lots of ifs and buts but I see Qf moving to something like this over a 10yr period

8 A380s refurbished and flying until 2030s (retire 4)
12-16 project sunrise/ higher capacity long range (A35XLR)
4-8 789s to top up and help provide growth on longer-thin routes (growth to africa/americas)
20-30 MOM type aircraft as part of a longer term 330 replacement
20-24 A220s to replace 717s
70-80 737MAX (probably a headling grabbing order of up to 100)

What do you think the QF fleet will look like in 5-10yrs time?


For their fleet in 5 years time I don't see it changing that much from where it is now. Assuming AA and QF get their JV approved this time I think you'll see more 789's on property for North American routes.

Assuming the operating economics workout for Project Sunrise there are some interesting possibilites for those aircraft which QF can expand into however it depends on the ultimate configuration of the A/C. If it ends up being configured like the SIN-EWR or SIN-LAX services that SQ runs then they are pretty much confined to NYC and LHR. If not then there is more potential.

Domestically, it's interesting that both VA and QF are both transferring A330's out of the domestic market and putting them on international duties while QF moves A320's out West, reconfigures 717's and moves them East while bringing home the AKL based 738's. So overall it looks more like a maintenance of capacity while JQ grows around them.

Hence not much change in 5 years time apart from a few more 789's and the possible addition of Project Sunrise aircraft.

10 years time and you're talking a different ballgame. In 10 years they're well into 738 and A330 replacement territory so I can see both of those heading from replacement while QF adds 787's, MOM's and a new narrowbody to replace the domestic fleet. Internationally I can see the A380's being retired for new widebody twins but who knows really.
 
moa999
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Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:37 am

Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:25 am

Qantas announced they are refurbing all A380s. They own them all, there is no secondary market, they will stay until 2030, possibly redirected more to Asia as 777/350 takes longhaul.

Not sure if there will be another 787 order with the 777/350, and MOM/797 will likely be more efficient on shorter Asian routes.

Also 737/320 fleet may not be quite as large as current as 797 takes some of that triangle work. Possibly a small subfleet of 73710,321ULR with lieflat business for narrow routes (eg ADL-SIN, PER-HKG)
 
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vhtje
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Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:39 am

Sorry for posting something that may have been asked before, but when does QF need to place an order for replacements for the narrowbody 737 fleet?

Looking at what QF did in the past - my namesake aircraft was delivered to TN in February 1990. It was retired by QF in October 2012, so it flew for 22 years (and doing sterling service, no doubt).

QF's oldest 737-838 is VH-VXA, delivered in January 2002. Assuming QF keep it flying for the same number of years, it would be retired sometime in 2024.

But the question is: has QF changed its aircraft utilisation patterns? Or, to put it another way: has VH-VXA done a comparable number of hours/cycles at 17 years into its life that VH-TJE had done at 17 years? Or is it more (meaning retirement will be sooner) or less (meaning it could hang around longer than 22 years)?

Second question: what lead time does Airbus and Boeing need on narrow body aircraft?
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
moa999
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Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:35 pm

Depends on the order book at the time.

Correct on the age. The entire 21 VX* set was delivered rapidly over 2012/13 following Ansett's collapse and were diverted from AA after 9/11.

The simple fact that all the 737s have recently gotten a refurb (extra row, new toilets and seat covers) and are all getting new paint and a Wifi aerial suggests they aren't going anytime soon.

You've also got big Capex $s in the next few years for the remaining 787s, and likely 777/350.

So I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't a replacement until 2024/2025 and it might be the 797 then to add capacity (and replace the four similar aged 332s). Then your onto the remaining 737s and 330s before hitting the A380s in 2030.

Plus something along the way for the Dash8 and 717 fleet.

As for aircraft age I think the processes for detecting wear have become a lot better, but at some point the relative efficiency catches up, particularly if fuel prices continue to rise.
 
DeltaB717
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Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:21 pm

qf2220 wrote:
DeltaB717 wrote:
The transfer of all eight Jetconnect B738s 'back' to mainline is now complete. ZK-ZQH / VH-VZQ has entered mainline service this morning as QF798 BNE-CNS.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/VHVZQ/history/1280


Its been a while since I knew what was happening with JC, but from this they are no longer operating on their own AOC? Is all flying now ex Australia on VH and the QF AOC? So JC is now a NZ labor hire company to QF?


I'm not sure about the cabin crew, whether they're still with Jetconnect and 'hired out' to QF mainline, but yes the aircraft operating the trans-Tasman sectors are now all VH- (including the eight previously with Jetconnect) on the mainline AOC, and the tech crew would therefore be from mainline.
 
Mr AirNZ
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Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:07 am

DeltaB717 wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
DeltaB717 wrote:
The transfer of all eight Jetconnect B738s 'back' to mainline is now complete. ZK-ZQH / VH-VZQ has entered mainline service this morning as QF798 BNE-CNS.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/VHVZQ/history/1280


Its been a while since I knew what was happening with JC, but from this they are no longer operating on their own AOC? Is all flying now ex Australia on VH and the QF AOC? So JC is now a NZ labor hire company to QF?


I'm not sure about the cabin crew, whether they're still with Jetconnect and 'hired out' to QF mainline, but yes the aircraft operating the trans-Tasman sectors are now all VH- (including the eight previously with Jetconnect) on the mainline AOC, and the tech crew would therefore be from mainline.

Confusingly, no. Most (but not all) Tasman 737 services are still crewed by Jetconnect pilots. The aircraft are "shared" with the QF australian operation (but all on the QF AOC).
 
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qf2220
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Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:02 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
where their oldest 737 is only 16 years old and has another 5-9 years of life left.


Question, as it is not addressed in the investor updates that i can find, is the fleet age weighted by seats at all? Or are older 744s given equal prominence to younger 738s, for example?


Apologies I don't understand your question, are you able to re-phrase?


Good question and its made me think about it a bit. I'm actually suggesting a different way to consider fleet age in terms of seat age. See my calc in this drive link which considers a simplified fleet of 1 large young and 3 small old aircraft, which has an average age of 15.25 years based on airframes but 4.3 based on seats.

Check my logic and check my maths though...... I could be wrong......

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
 
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777Jet
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Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Tue Dec 25, 2018 2:47 am

vorellanaj wrote:
I found on the internet published for sale all QF 747-400 plus -ER in service with availability dates. Year first , month and day.

Image

For this screenshot you can conclude non-ER retirement line in the next year
1st : OJS 15-Feb-2019
2nd : OEB 15-Apr-2019
3rd : OJU 15-Aug-2019

Last aircraft in retirement may be Ceduna (OEI) , she had D-Check recently or Wunala (OEJ). Date : 01-Dec-2020


Thank you for sharing that.
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90,717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9,306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
aviationaware
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Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Tue Dec 25, 2018 4:51 am

Just saw the old and new Qantas livery side by side on 737s today for the first time in Adelaide and have to say, what a class act. Subtle improvements turning an iconic livery modern and all around great. If only other airlines (looking at you, Lufthansa) had as much of a knack for this.
Wonder if and when they will order more 787s? Only new orders I keep hearing about are the Sunrise orders, meanwhile the outstanding 787 deliveries are supposed to replace the 747s and won't offer enough slack (correct me if I am wrong) to open the new routes they keep talking about.
 
soyuz
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:35 am

Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:10 am

I'm just at BNE domestic and am watching VH-QPJ (A333) parked at gate 20 having tyres replaced on both MLGs. Didn't think they do that kind of maintenance at the gate. Hard landing perhaps? Its most recent flight was QF512 SYD-BNE today.
 
vhebb
Posts: 329
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:37 am

Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:42 am

Its normal for tire change to be done at the gate, pretty simple process
 
Fuling
Posts: 111
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:41 am

Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:53 am

Just wondering where QF is getting the A330 fleet repainted? I know QPJ was done in Victorville, but are all of them?
 
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qf789
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Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:06 am

Fuling wrote:
Just wondering where QF is getting the A330 fleet repainted? I know QPJ was done in Victorville, but are all of them?


The A330's painted this year have all been done in Singapore
Forum Moderator
 
aviationaware
Posts: 2529
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 12:02 pm

Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:26 am

Any info on how long it will take for the 737 fleet to be refitted with Wifi? Was just on a MEL-SYD and was pretty bummed out that the flight to Canberra had Wifi and the one on the trunk route didn't.
 
moa999
Posts: 347
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:37 am

Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:47 am

Think they are completing about one a week.
Haven't seen a total for a while but must be getting close to 50 (of 75)
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Qantas Fleet Thread 2018

Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:46 am

Please continue in next year's thread.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1411865
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