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adambrau
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:02 am

Just as a note to foreign airline meteorological/operation departments, check out forums.accuweather.com. Professional meteorologists were warning 24 hours + that the storm was heading on a more westward track than the NWS and global models were inconsistent. JFK is NYC's most western airport and right on the Atlantic Ocean, so subject to the initial snow, and now the wind and the very cold weather. A lesson learned here hopefully.
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TW870
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:17 am

ctnyc12 wrote:
Between the long wait times for gates and additional diversions two days post-storm; I'm surprised the ongoing meltdown at JFK isn't being discussed more. Complete failure by the Port Authority of NYNJ in properly managing this whole event. Hard to believe that LGA, BOS and EWR are all pretty much back to normal ops with LGA and EWR being so close, and BOS being hit just as bad by the storm.


I agree that it is surprising that this isn't getting more a.net responses. Look at the story on the front page of the NYT, and the whole operation - and especially Delta's - is getting a lot of ugly coverage. Many evening Friday arriving pax had to wait all night for baggage to be unloaded from aircraft. I feel like we got to a place in the last decade where airlines stopped feeding aircraft into operational meltdowns, and instead favored operational resets via preemptive cancellations. This has been the exact opposite. It reminds me of the ugly days of the late-1990s with days of operational irregularities from one triggering event.
 
RogerMurdock
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:28 am

Skywatcher wrote:
All in all the system coped relatively well.


The situation at JFK begs to differ. The storm recovery there has been nothing short of catastrophic. It seems like they only cared about clearing runways and aprons, never told any airlines that it might be prudent to cancel longhaul flights because there are no gates available with the huge backlog of incoming diversions. There was almost a riot by passengers at Air China's gate after days-long delays.

ctnyc12 wrote:
Between the long wait times for gates and additional diversions two days post-storm; I'm surprised the ongoing meltdown at JFK isn't being discussed more. Complete failure by the Port Authority of NYNJ in properly managing this whole event. Hard to believe that LGA, BOS and EWR are all pretty much back to normal ops with LGA and EWR being so close, and BOS being hit just as bad by the storm.


It's a failure of management to realize that just because they have restored the technical capability to receive an aircraft doesn't mean they can handle the additional ground traffic, passengers, or crew without creating additional chaos. There were crew on ferry flights who timed out and had to go park the plane somewhere and hitch a ride!
 
hayzel777
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:51 am

qf789 wrote:
T1 is not accepting any more arrivals

AT200 diverted to PHL

Image

https://twitter.com/flightradar24/statu ... 1333176321

JL4 diverted to BOS
KE85 diverted to ATL
DY7015 diverted to SWF

Image

https://twitter.com/flightradar24/statu ... 2722977797

Interesting. How come BR32 was accepted?
 
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qf789
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:53 am

jworks158 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
AMollenhauer9 wrote:
KE 85 is heading to ATL
JL 6 stopped at ORD and now headed to BOS.


Looks like JL6 made the decision early to divert to BOS

Image

https://twitter.com/flightradar24/statu ... 0800536576


I was just about to post this. So surprised to see it divert twice, although at least they can bus the passengers from BOS, and they have the staff and ground resources in BOS. I also noticed that JL 6 has been holding on a taxiway for the last 75 minutes according to flight radar24, not sure why.

On another note, anyone know what is going on with D-ABYC (LH 748) it came in from ORD @ 9pm yesterday, and has been at BOS since then.


D-ABYC has left BOS and heading back to FRA as LH9877, its currently off the coast of Ireland
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:18 am

The situation in JFK remains catastrophic.

El Al: Flight 1 canceled (I suspect that passengers may have been shifted to available seats onto Flight 27 if possible), Flight 7 may not take off either unless it goes to Newark.
Norwegian 7015 (Saturday): Diverted to Stewart
Norwegian 8992 (a rescue flight): Diverted to Newark. The other one, 7919, did not take off from JFK, nor has the Hi Fly rescue flight (that's 2 Wamos and 1 Hi Fly plane stuck at JFK).
Philippine 126 (Friday and Saturday): terminated in Vancouver
Avianca: all flights to JFK canceled (flight originating in Cali terminated in Medellin)
Japan Airlines 4: followed JL6 and diverted to BOS
Volaris: all flights canceled (AM flight from Mexico City diverted to Cancun and canceled there---PM flight from Mexico City and flight from Guadalajara did not take off)
China Eastern 298 (which arrived Friday night): Departed to PVG 18 hours late
Air China 990 (which arrived Friday night with the 7 hour wait for a gate): still at JFK, as is Air China 982
China Southern 399: operating 6 hours late

As for why EWR is back to normal---UA pre-emptively canceled its Thursday schedule there and that's a fortress hub for them.
 
HeeseokKoo
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:36 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Because of snow clearance, gates are blocked. That's not a glitch. That said, since this was a ferry, why not just park remotely and then have the plane towed to its gate later on? For immigration and customs, the pilots can be taken over in a Port Authority ops SUV to T7 or T4.

That wasn't a ferry. KE, like other T1 tenants, is having some of the worst days:

KE081 ICN-JFK 10:00-10:00 A380 daily
KE085 ICN-JFK 19:30-19:30 B748 daily

1/4 081 left 2h later, diverted to YYZ, arrived 35.5 hours later than the scheduled arrival
1/4 085 left on time, diverted to ORD, arrived 15.5 h later
1/5 081 left 12h later, arrived 17.5 h later, including 5 hours of gate waiting after landing
1/5 085 left 14h later, diverted to ORD, to arrive 45h later at 16:20 on 1/7
1/6 081 left 2h later, diverted to IAD, to arrive 24h later at 10am on 1/7
1/6 085 left on time, diverted to ATL, to arrive 31h later at 230am on 1/8
1/7 081 cancelled
1/7 085 cancelled
 
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Finn350
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:50 am

FGITD wrote:
JFK is somehow making LHR look like snow removal experts.

I realize the enormously different scales of operations, but it's interesting to note how other airports that were hit with more snow from the same storm are back to pretty much normal operations...


The difference is that if there were 10 cm snow at LHR the airport would be completely shut down. As I understand, LHR doesn't even have specialized snow removal equipment. There wouldn't be any inbound or outbound flights. At least JFK is trying to stay open, although with hefty delays.
 
ctrabs0114
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:43 am

For folks outside the New York area who may not be familiar, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which operates the major airports in New York (KJFK, KLGA and KEWR) is not exactly the most competently operated entity in the U.S. Dysfunctional doesn't even begin to describe how bad things are, starting with the often parochial fighting between New York State and New Jersey interests. It's a complete cluster-cluck to say the least.
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hayzel777
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:44 am

T1 is really, really bad. Shame on PANYNJ.

The anger from pax on BR29 became so bad that the ground staff called PAPD before retreating from the counter. Passengers were hurling insults/vulgarities and slamming their hand on the counter. Completely unacceptable. The ground staff have been working nearly 48 hours straight! They are struggling too.

BR29 departed 7 hours late, original time was 12:00 but only managed to pushback at 19:40.
BR31, originally rescheduled for an 8:00 departure, rescheduled again to 14:00, finally departing from the gate at 15:00.

Despite PANYNJ announcing a closure of T1 to arrivals, BR32 on 1/6 was accepted and allowed to land, only to be led to the AA MX ramp area to be deplaned. Now the departing BR31 has no gate and cannot depart from the mx ramp as the fuel lines do not run there.
 
mozart
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:45 am

I am due to connect through JFK tomorrow, from Europe to BDA. Would you guys with a local appreciation of what JFK looks like today/will likely look like tomorrow advise me to avoid JFK? Only alternative is through MIA... a bit of a detour, but at least not prone to winter storms.

Thoughts?
 
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Finn350
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:50 am

ctrabs0114 wrote:
For folks outside the New York area who may not be familiar, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which operates the major airports in New York (KJFK, KLGA and KEWR) is not exactly the most competently operated entity in the U.S. Dysfunctional doesn't even begin to describe how bad things are, starting with the often parochial fighting between New York State and New Jersey interests. It's a complete cluster-cluck to say the least.


OK, thanks for enlightening about the systemic side of the issue.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:06 pm

[quote="aemoreira1981"]The situation in JFK remains catastrophic.

In aviation, when you see a smoking hole at the end of the runway with dead bodies in it, you use the word catastrophic.

What you see at T1 is stupid, annoying, enraging... not catastrophic.

Just giving you perspective...
 
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alberchico
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:31 pm

short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
ltbewr
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:09 pm

The temps in the NYC area were at near record temperatures (for the days) Saturday and Sunday. Sunday morning at JFK is 5 F/-15 C with strong winds. The winds at times on Saturday blew snow around and creating 'wind chill' temps of much lower numbers. Saturday and Sunday are bright and sunny, but that is deceptive. That means staff is limited in time outside, slowed by heavy clothes, outdoor equipment not functioning from the cold, compounded from flights out of sync or not able to depart, terminals becoming overcrowded with inbound and outbound passengers. LGA and EWR seem to be far less affected by the storm, likely due to cancellations by major airlines (UA, AA) into them. Sunday AM, the PANYNJ that operates JFK/LGA/EWR has stated they will 'look into this', with the airlines, ground staff and others as to how this mess happened and how to reduce the risk of another in the future.
 
asuflyer
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:40 pm

One of the biggest issues at JFK is all of the terminals are managed entirely separately. So each terminal works in its own way meaning there are many inefficiencies.

Terminal 1 is run by The Terminal One Group
Terminal 2 is DL
Terminal 4 is run by JFKIAT (Schiphol Group) / and Delta has control over its own operations.
Terminal 5 is B6
Terminal 7 is BA
Terminal 8 is AA

Sure, the Port Authority is in charge of the whole airport but as most people from NY and NJ know they are utterly incompetent.

Terminal 1 is arguably the worst as it is completely maxed out in terms of space on a regular day. The Terminal One Group is also completely incompetent just two months ago it’s director was convicted of taking bribes and stealing. http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ex- ... -1.3607802

Most employees at T1 are contracted they work for Swissport etc. so very few actual airline reps there. Furthermore, if a 77W or A380 is arriving or departing it completely blocks all the surrounding taxiways as they need to be towed in very slowly.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:05 pm

Oh my, DL403 is just about to arrive at LHR.
JFK 22:30 - LHR 10:30 planned
JFK 04:47 - LHR 16:08 actual
Those poor people must feel like the Living Dead.
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KD5MDK
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:54 pm

JFK is NYC's most western airport

JFK is west of LGA and EWR? I have managed to confuse myself.
 
pnwtraveler
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:29 pm

I just happened to be driving by YYZ when KE081 departed. Without thinking about the diversions I was wondering if it was an upgrade for the Olympics but thought since all the Canadian teams were flying AC I thought it would be a pretty large increase. Then the coin dropped. There are 3 A380 capable gates and YYZ has a KE service (usually 77W) so has teams here to handle the offloading. The only A380 in on Friday was EK so there were room for 2 extra A380's.

I have been waiting to see a KE748i get subbed to YYZ but know the chance is slim. The B748F Korean and Cathay are regulars with Atlas being an occasional visitor.

I also saw Egyptair B77W on approach at a strange hour so assume that was also a diversion.

Someone should correct me but I believe the A350 Cathay was the first visit of that aircraft type because the Cathay flights are usually handled by B77W's.
 
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adambrau
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:35 pm

CNN just reported broken water pipes in Terminal 4 eek!

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2018/01/07/ ... k-airport/
Last edited by adambrau on Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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adambrau
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:39 pm

adambrau wrote:
Just as a note to foreign airline meteorological/operation departments, check out forums.accuweather.com. Professional meteorologists were warning 24 hours + that the storm was heading on a more westward track than the NWS and global models were inconsistent. JFK is NYC's most western airport and right on the Atlantic Ocean, so subject to the initial snow, and now the wind and the very cold weather. A lesson learned here hopefully.


Sorry JFK is most Eastern geographically, followed by LGA, flowed by Newark. So as the storm cam west, JFK got hit badly. My bad on my East/West mixup....
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Newbiepilot
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:50 pm

ctrabs0114 wrote:
For folks outside the New York area who may not be familiar, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which operates the major airports in New York (KJFK, KLGA and KEWR) is not exactly the most competently operated entity in the U.S. Dysfunctional doesn't even begin to describe how bad things are, starting with the often parochial fighting between New York State and New Jersey interests. It's a complete cluster-cluck to say the least.


It sounds like all the problems are at terminal 1. It’s operations are managed by a consortium owned by Air France, Lufthansa, Korean and Japan Airlines. It’s operations are not controlled by the Port Authority. The problems seemed to have started because the foreign airlines didn’t cancel flights on Thursday. They diverted the planes, which resulted in flights coming in at wrong times of the day when the terminal is full. Getting planes turned at off hours for the regular staff is tediously slow. It is just exacerbating. This is why US airlines proactively cancel.

The PANY certainly has problems and the terminal ownership at JFK is a painful legacy of the past but you can’t blame it all on them.
 
SamTheGeek
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:14 pm

pnwtraveler wrote:
Someone should correct me but I believe the A350 Cathay was the first visit of that aircraft type because the Cathay flights are usually handled by B77W's.


Cathay was operating the A350 there earlier in 2017 — I pulled in next to one when I flew AC in August.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:16 pm

asuflyer wrote:
One of the biggest issues at JFK is all of the terminals are managed entirely separately. So each terminal works in its own way meaning there are many inefficiencies.

Terminal 1 is run by The Terminal One Group
Terminal 2 is DL
Terminal 4 is run by JFKIAT (Schiphol Group) / and Delta has control over its own operations.
Terminal 5 is B6
Terminal 7 is BA
Terminal 8 is AA

Sure, the Port Authority is in charge of the whole airport but as most people from NY and NJ know they are utterly incompetent.

Terminal 1 is arguably the worst as it is completely maxed out in terms of space on a regular day. The Terminal One Group is also completely incompetent just two months ago it’s director was convicted of taking bribes and stealing. http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ex- ... -1.3607802

Most employees at T1 are contracted they work for Swissport etc. so very few actual airline reps there. Furthermore, if a 77W or A380 is arriving or departing it completely blocks all the surrounding taxiways as they need to be towed in very slowly.


To add: T1's ramp services, as well as T7, are all dnata (formerly GSI before the Emirates Group acquired them). At T4, ramp operations are Delta (DL/AM/KL/VS) or Swissport (everyone else). T8 is a mix between American, Swissport, and Triangle (handles LATAM). As for who owns Terminal One Group---it's a joint venture of LH/AF/JL/KE.

As for an emergency...the only terminal that will handle anyone in an emergency is Terminal 4. They have almost all of the hardstand operations at JFK (the only other terminal capable of hardstand operations at JFK is T5i, where JetBlue sometimes handles TAP Air Portugal with powered escalator airstairs.

The major difference between last year and this year: while JFK was dumped with 27 inches of snowfall, right after it ended, temperatures warmed up into the 50s, meaning that the snow melted very quickly. Also, flights were canceled pre-emptively with the exception of a handful of flights from Asia, such as EVA Flight 32, which ultimately diverted to Toronto just north of Albany.
 
spacecadet
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:22 pm

Newbiepilot wrote:
It sounds like all the problems are at terminal 1.


No, T1 and T4 for the most part. http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/fli ... -1.3741443

JFK's recovery from this is pretty inexcusable, but I will say in the PA's defense in terms of planning that this storm was worse than forecast, and it's also worse than has been reported. I don't have any idea where the 6.7" snow measurement that I've seen is coming from. I live 1 mile from JFK and I have so much snow that there's nowhere to put it. I have been shoveling it over my head. I have to angle my car out of the driveway around the mountain of snow that's taller than me. We got at least 18". All I can think is that someone measured JFK's snow total in an area that snow had drifted *from* in the wind. There were very high winds that blew snow all over the place and it was probably difficult to get an accurate reading, especially on flat, unprotected land like an airport where the wind would be the worst. But having actually shoveled it and now seeing what's left on the ground, we got a *lot* of snow. And even just a day earlier, the whole region was only forecast to get about 1-3".

That's on top of the ridiculous temperatures that are not only unusual for one or two days in NYC, but we've had 14 straight days now without the temps rising above freezing. Stuff's just not built for that here. Pipes freeze, locks freeze, everything freezes and ices up. And the past couple days have been the worst. When it's already freezing for 12 days straight, there's a blizzard, and *then* the temps go down to 0F, stuff is gonna break if it's not protected or built for arctic conditions. And few things here are protected from *that* level of sustained cold.

So I totally get the frustration with the way these challenges have been handled, and the disorganized and uncaring way that some airport employees seem to be dealing with them. It's an embarrassment. But there was no real way to plan for all this in advance. Stuff was gonna happen. The only question was how the airport was gonna deal with it. They haven't dealt with it well. But you can't really blame them for a lot of the root problems.
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mcdu
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:46 pm

Newbiepilot wrote:

It sounds like all the problems are at terminal 1. .


That is hardly the case. In the newspaper article it mentions DL flights in T4 being impacted and just today there is a water leak in DL’s T4 causing evacuation of the arrivals area.
 
Curiousflyer
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:34 pm

The images on CNN for the T4 arrivals are pretty bad. It seems they will have to close T4 for a few days to clean up and dry things. So third world-like.

Is T4 a write-off? :bitelip:
 
RogerMurdock
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:36 pm

Delta is diverting some international flights to ATL to clear US customs, then on to JFK as a domestic flight. (Terminal 2 arrival?)
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:54 pm

RogerMurdock wrote:
Delta is diverting some international flights to ATL to clear US customs, then on to JFK as a domestic flight. (Terminal 2 arrival?)


Not DL related but IAT related---LX14 to JFK was shortened to BOS so that immigration and customs could be cleared there. UX91 also diverted to BOS for the same reason, and DL173 (which is the current stand-in for VS45) diverted to DTW likewise. If KU117 didn't go through immigration and customs at SNN, it will need to divert too.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:58 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Not DL related but IAT related---LX14 to JFK was shortened to BOS so that immigration and customs could be cleared there. UX91 also diverted to BOS for the same reason, and DL173 (which is the current stand-in for VS45) diverted to DTW likewise. If KU117 didn't go through immigration and customs at SNN, it will need to divert too.


Is it why LX22 is currently diverting to YUL?
 
Aeroplasma
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:02 pm

https://twitter.com/JFKairport/status/9 ... 0057546752

It appears that few hours ago, the JFK twitter account indicated that they are not accepting international arrivals for T4, which is probably why there are diversions for airlines that go to T4.
 
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piedmontf284000
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:04 pm

With what is seemingly the end of the US Holiday season with most returning to work/school tomorrow, this is typically one of the busiest flying days of the year. With the last four days of cancellations/delays and now the flooding of T4, it just couldn't get any worse for those using JFK...
 
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alberchico
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:21 pm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... elays.html

here are all the pictures and videos of the chaos in one place. What a s**tshow :shock:

Can you imagine what a mess the bathrooms are ??? :yuck:
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
CrawleyBen
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:10 am

A Norwegian flight came in to Gatwick from Stewart International yesterday (787 operated, 332 on board). Another 3x more DY flight's are due in the early hours of this morning (inc 1x Wamos 747 which should have arrived at LGW on the 04th Jan & has 450 pax on board). Add in a BA operated JFK that's also due in post midnight & that adds up to a very busy night shift tonight at Gatwick.

Cheers

Ben
 
SamTheGeek
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:14 am

SamTheGeek wrote:
pnwtraveler wrote:
Someone should correct me but I believe the A350 Cathay was the first visit of that aircraft type because the Cathay flights are usually handled by B77W's.


Cathay was operating the A350 there earlier in 2017 — I pulled in next to one when I flew AC in August.


Sorry, that wasn't Cathay — it was China Airlines. Here's the press from when that started
Last edited by SamTheGeek on Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
SamTheGeek
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:19 am

SamTheGeek wrote:
pnwtraveler wrote:
Someone should correct me but I believe the A350 Cathay was the first visit of that aircraft type because the Cathay flights are usually handled by B77W's.


Cathay was operating the A350 there earlier in 2017 — I pulled in next to one when I flew AC in August.


Sorry, that wasn't correct — I was at YVR not YYZ (I connected on to YAZ which probably caused the confusion in my memory)
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:26 am

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
Not DL related but IAT related---LX14 to JFK was shortened to BOS so that immigration and customs could be cleared there. UX91 also diverted to BOS for the same reason, and DL173 (which is the current stand-in for VS45) diverted to DTW likewise. If KU117 didn't go through immigration and customs at SNN, it will need to divert too.


Is it why LX22 is currently diverting to YUL?


I'm surprised it didn't try for EWR, given that a later flight from ZRH by LX goes to EWR. Passengers could then have been given the choice to terminate there or fly over to JFK across the Hudson.

Also, China Airlines has pushed its flight to JFK back a day.

CrawleyBen wrote:
A Norwegian flight came in to Gatwick from Stewart International yesterday (787 operated, 332 on board). Another 3x more DY flight's are due in the early hours of this morning (inc 1x Wamos 747 which should have arrived at LGW on the 04th Jan & has 450 pax on board). Add in a BA operated JFK that's also due in post midnight & that adds up to a very busy night shift tonight at Gatwick.

Cheers

Ben


Also a Hi Fly A343 which is operating close to 65 hours late.
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:36 am

piedmontf284000 wrote:
With what is seemingly the end of the US Holiday season with most returning to work/school tomorrow, this is typically one of the busiest flying days of the year. With the last four days of cancellations/delays and now the flooding of T4, it just couldn't get any worse for those using JFK...


The good news is that next week starts one of the slowest travel periods of the year. Business travel is usually limited in January.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:08 am

Likely the water leak is a pipe that has busted from the severe cold. Probably for the fire sprinkler systems as their pipes are often close to walls and roofs without enough insulation and no movement of water so the need to close the terminal as without proper fire safety. Per PANYNJ website alerts, the inner roadway for the Terminal is closed. Seems like JFK can't get a break, but is partially broken from this recent severe weather. It appears T4 is out of commission for the next few days.
 
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adambrau
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:24 am

piedmontf284000 wrote:
With what is seemingly the end of the US Holiday season with most returning to work/school tomorrow, this is typically one of the busiest flying days of the year. With the last four days of cancellations/delays and now the flooding of T4, it just couldn't get any worse for those using JFK...


Well it seems T4 lost power now too, presumably related to the water main break. What a fiasco. Poor passengers, ground staff and crews.
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jfklganyc
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:13 am

What is Delta going to do with the IAT closed? That is going to be more than one day, right?
 
ctrabs0114
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:34 am

Newbiepilot wrote:
ctrabs0114 wrote:
For folks outside the New York area who may not be familiar, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which operates the major airports in New York (KJFK, KLGA and KEWR) is not exactly the most competently operated entity in the U.S. Dysfunctional doesn't even begin to describe how bad things are, starting with the often parochial fighting between New York State and New Jersey interests. It's a complete cluster-cluck to say the least.


It sounds like all the problems are at terminal 1. It’s operations are managed by a consortium owned by Air France, Lufthansa, Korean and Japan Airlines. It’s operations are not controlled by the Port Authority. The problems seemed to have started because the foreign airlines didn’t cancel flights on Thursday. They diverted the planes, which resulted in flights coming in at wrong times of the day when the terminal is full. Getting planes turned at off hours for the regular staff is tediously slow. It is just exacerbating. This is why US airlines proactively cancel.

The PANY certainly has problems and the terminal ownership at JFK is a painful legacy of the past but you can’t blame it all on them.


I did see the earlier thread on who owns which terminal at JFK. My god, it's enough to make one's head spin.
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panamair
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:26 am

jfklganyc wrote:
What is Delta going to do with the IAT closed? That is going to be more than one day, right?


International flights have resumed arrivals at T4. DL477 from BCN and DL3 from LHR have all arrived at T4 gates this evening, as has EK205 from MXP..
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:48 am

jfklganyc wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
The situation in JFK remains catastrophic.

In aviation, when you see a smoking hole at the end of the runway with dead bodies in it, you use the word catastrophic.

What you see at T1 is stupid, annoying, enraging... not catastrophic.

Just giving you perspective...


Senator Chuck Schumer said the situation was “a disaster.”

https://nypost.com/2018/01/07/bad-weeke ... acuations/
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STT757
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:02 pm

The situation at Kennedy airport has less to do with the Port Authority and more to do with the nature in which T1 and T-4 operate. Both terminals are operated by private companies, not the Port Authority, and for the most part rely on low wage contract employees from vendors like Swissport to handle the international flights. In a situation like what occurred, a lot of the contract employees simply decided to not come to work during the storm and the chaotic aftermath.

You have not heard a peep about AA, B6 nor DL having any difficulties, save for the water main break. Those carriers operate their own facilities and have their own employees to rely upon, what led most to the T-1 and T-4 melt down was lack of employees to process flights (baggage etc..). Which led to long gate times while poor communication between the Terminal operators (private companies) and the International airlines operations sections over seas to stop sending flights.

EWR and LGA were fine, again it's two terminals at JFK that had the meltdown and had to do with staffing, and poor communication amongst the carriers and the terminal operator.

Terminal One has been a problem with gate delays for a while, and it's only gotten worse as airlines continue to expand at that overwhelmed facility. When T-1 first opened it was the best of all the NYC terminals, now it's the worse. That dynamic rests solely in the hands of the private operator. What has compounded problems at JFK was DL's move to T-4, which was never intended to be a hub carrier facility. T-4 was constructed to replace the old IAB, to be the home of International carriers. The expansion that DL did to T-4 should have been done by the facility operator to host the growing line up of international carriers, DL should have not been allowed to move in. I understand why DL did it, they got a new facility on the cheap without the same investment of a new facility. But the short sightedness of allowing DL to move to T-4 led to a lack of space for the International carriers. They solved DL's problems of inadequate facilities, but in doing so created a bigger problem with the lack of space for all the other International carriers.

Want to fix JFK, make DL build a new terminal to replace the former T-3 and the current T-2. Build a walkway to connect to Terminal One. Move International carriers back to T-4.
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:23 pm

STT757 wrote:
The situation at Kennedy airport has less to do with the Port Authority and more to do with the nature in which T1 and T-4 operate. Both terminals are operated by private companies, not the Port Authority, and for the most part rely on low wage contract employees from vendors like Swissport to handle the international flights. In a situation like what occurred, a lot of the contract employees simply decided to not come to work during the storm and the chaotic aftermath.

You have not heard a peep about AA, B6 nor DL having any difficulties, save for the water main break. Those carriers operate their own facilities and have their own employees to rely upon, what led most to the T-1 and T-4 melt down was lack of employees to process flights (baggage etc..). Which led to long gate times while poor communication between the Terminal operators (private companies) and the International airlines operations sections over seas to stop sending flights.

EWR and LGA were fine, again it's two terminals at JFK that had the meltdown and had to do with staffing, and poor communication amongst the carriers and the terminal operator.



:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:

Thank you STT757. That incisive analysis you gave will hardly be emphasized by any of the MSM. They will surely bury that under a mass of "other" reporting.
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adambrau
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:00 pm

:checkmark: :checkeredflag: :checkmark: :checkeredflag:
STT757 wrote:
The situation at Kennedy airport has less to do with the Port Authority and more to do with the nature in which T1 and T-4 operate. Both terminals are operated by private companies, not the Port Authority, and for the most part rely on low wage contract employees from vendors like Swissport to handle the international flights. In a situation like what occurred, a lot of the contract employees simply decided to not come to work during the storm and the chaotic aftermath.

You have not heard a peep about AA, B6 nor DL having any difficulties, save for the water main break. Those carriers operate their own facilities and have their own employees to rely upon, what led most to the T-1 and T-4 melt down was lack of employees to process flights (baggage etc..). Which led to long gate times while poor communication between the Terminal operators (private companies) and the International airlines operations sections over seas to stop sending flights.

EWR and LGA were fine, again it's two terminals at JFK that had the meltdown and had to do with staffing, and poor communication amongst the carriers and the terminal operator.

Terminal One has been a problem with gate delays for a while, and it's only gotten worse as airlines continue to expand at that overwhelmed facility. When T-1 first opened it was the best of all the NYC terminals, now it's the worse. That dynamic rests solely in the hands of the private operator. What has compounded problems at JFK was DL's move to T-4, which was never intended to be a hub carrier facility. T-4 was constructed to replace the old IAB, to be the home of International carriers. The expansion that DL did to T-4 should have been done by the facility operator to host the growing line up of international carriers, DL should have not been allowed to move in. I understand why DL did it, they got a new facility on the cheap without the same investment of a new facility. But the short sightedness of allowing DL to move to T-4 led to a lack of space for the International carriers. They solved DL's problems of inadequate facilities, but in doing so created a bigger problem with the lack of space for all the other International carriers.

Want to fix JFK, make DL build a new terminal to replace the former T-3 and the current T-2. Build a walkway to connect to Terminal One. Move International carriers back to T-4.
JFK Friendly
 
N212R
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:15 pm

STT757 wrote:
What has compounded problems at JFK was DL's move to T-4, which was never intended to be a hub carrier facility. T-4 was constructed to replace the old IAB, to be the home of International carriers. The expansion that DL did to T-4 should have been done by the facility operator to host the growing line up of international carriers, DL should have not been allowed to move in. I understand why DL did it, they got a new facility on the cheap without the same investment of a new facility. But the short sightedness of allowing DL to move to T-4 led to a lack of space for the International carriers. They solved DL's problems of inadequate facilities, but in doing so created a bigger problem with the lack of space for all the other International carriers


Who made the lousy decision to allow DL to move to T-4?
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:28 pm

"JFK airport: Burst pipes and extreme snow cause flight chaos in New York for fifth day running"

http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/new ... 47666.html

Many UK travellers due to fly home with Norwegian were affected by the storms. Brigida Downing, whose son was scheduled to fly from JFK on 4 January, told The Independent that the experience has been “a nightmare”. After her son’s flight was cancelled, Norwegian transported him and his fellow passenger to a hotel, telling them they would fly the next day instead. However, when this flight was also cancelled, passengers were told the airline was not prepared to pay for another night in the hotel, nor transportation back.

“My son and others had to pay for a taxi back to the hotel where they were told that if they wished, they could have a refund for their flight and could try to get on another flight,” she said. ”My son checked and the cheapest flight back, if indeed one was going, was £2,000 plus pounds.”


and

"Travelers still stranded at JFK as officials investigate water main break that flooded terminal"

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/tra ... -1.3744485

“What happened at JFK Airport is unacceptable, and travelers expect and deserve better,” said Port Authority Executive Director Rick Cotton.

“We will hold those responsible accountable for any shortcomings we find.”


Unless it's Port Authority Upper Management, of course... :yes:
Last edited by DIRECTFLT on Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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hayzel777
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Re: Northeast USA Winter Storm 1/4 Thread

Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:30 pm

While checking in online for my EVA flight from JFK, I was given a pop-up that essentially told me not to expect an on-time departure/arrival. How ridiculous.
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