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747superliner
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2002 2:36 am

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:25 pm

Being in one of AA's spoke cities a mere 200 miles to the north and having used AA to connect to LH (and other airlines) a fair number of times in the past, goings-on at DFW are very much a big interest of mine, so appreciate all of the great information posted in this thread.

That being said I have a few questions:
- I read in one of the previous posts that AA will be up to 900 daily departures from the current 800. I'm guessing that number includes both, mainline and Eagle ops yes? And 900 would be the peak-day departures?
- What are "LUS" gates?
- With the Terminal D south extension being built (which will handle either four narrowbodies or widebodies concurrently), would the airport need to include another taxilane on the south side of the terminal? Right now, there's that one taxilane and some hardstands directly next to it where RON aircraft or "in-between flights" aircraft are parked (e.g. the QF 388). That area can get tight and I'm wondering how two widebodies will be able to taxi in to the new gates. Granted, the hardstands are angled pretty good but even so, there's not much more additional space.

I'm also wondering what your take is on additional OneWorld carriers operating at DFW. You would thnk with AA's superhub, you would see at least one of Iberia, Aer Lingus, Cathay Pacific or Finnair, even on a seasonal basis. I know AA flies to/from MAD and IB codeshares on that flight so that likely rules out IB starting service (same for CX I guess), but any chance of seeing the others come in at any point in the future? Or is the demand for those carriers just not there in numbers?
Last edited by 747superliner on Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
FriscoHeavy
Posts: 1624
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 4:31 pm

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:28 pm

There are no LUS gates per say. Mainline is mainline now.

They did retain the 'High E' Gates that belonged to US Airways, but now use it for regional jets. They will also be taking over the E Satellite once it's done being renovated and will be used for regional jets as well.
Whatever
 
747superliner
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2002 2:36 am

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:31 pm

FriscoHeavy wrote:
There are no LUS gates per say. Mainline is mainline now.

They did retain the 'High E' Gates that belonged to US Airways, but now use it for regional jets. They will also be taking over the E Satellite once it's done being renovated and will be used for regional jets as well.


I know about the E satellite. But what exactly does "LUS" stand for (saw it in post number 178)?
 
dfdubflyer
Posts: 155
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:01 am

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:48 pm

LUS = Legacy US Airways. The gates they used prior to the merger with AA.
 
747superliner
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2002 2:36 am

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:23 pm

dfdubflyer wrote:
LUS = Legacy US Airways. The gates they used prior to the merger with AA.


Ahh ok, I see now. Thanks for the reply!
 
4engines4lnghll
Posts: 213
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:25 am

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:25 pm

I'm v excited for Dublin and Munich. I'm a bit shocked Munich is going to be served. Is there anything behind this? Business route?
4engines4lnghll
 
User avatar
william
Posts: 3222
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 1999 1:31 pm

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:14 pm

FriscoHeavy wrote:
dfdubflyer wrote:
I was looking back through the DFW Investor Day presentation and noticed they’re planning to spend $150m to keep C at “steady state.” Wonder if any of that is customer-facing or its that’s pure HVAC/Utility type work


That's interesting and would be good to know. Hell, even if they just ripped up/replaced the nasty floor tile, carpet, retile the bathrooms and add some new new lighting, it would make a huge difference.


And miss the clickety clack from my roller luggage?......... Perish the thought.
 
FriscoHeavy
Posts: 1624
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 4:31 pm

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:37 pm

william wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:
dfdubflyer wrote:
I was looking back through the DFW Investor Day presentation and noticed they’re planning to spend $150m to keep C at “steady state.” Wonder if any of that is customer-facing or its that’s pure HVAC/Utility type work


That's interesting and would be good to know. Hell, even if they just ripped up/replaced the nasty floor tile, carpet, retile the bathrooms and add some new new lighting, it would make a huge difference.


And miss the clickety clack from my roller luggage?......... Perish the thought.



Haha, exactly!
Whatever
 
CIDFlyer
Posts: 2119
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:19 am

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:39 pm

i agree, For C, some fresh paint, new floors and carpeting and new lights would work wonders. Wouldnt have to do a complete teardown and overhaul like they did for A, B and E
 
mfe777
Posts: 285
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:35 am

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:23 pm

Brandon757 wrote:
I'm hearing rumblings around Facebook that after WOW's seasonal service ends this year that they are not planning on returning to DFW next year. Anyone here heard that?


That would be unfortunate, especially after they posted 90%+ load factors recently on the DFW route. But, alas, the A330 is a lot of plane to fill with 3 carriers on DFW-KEF. And with WOW's low fares, they have to fill the planes. I just flew them DFW-KEF-DFW returning yesterday, and the flights seemed about 50-75% full but it could have been an off day. After already having a 90%+ load factor month while being a brand new entrant to DFW, I would hope that they would give it more time to develop and possibly start the route earlier in Spring in 2019 to capture more Spring travelers out of DFW.

If they can't profitably run the A330s on DFW-KEF, I wonder if they'd be open to doing an A321NEO with a tech stop to refuel if needed. With their super low fares, I would still do a tech stop and be happy! If the 797 was out now it would be perfect for the route.

By the way, where did you see this rumor on facebook?
Last edited by mfe777 on Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
mfe777
Posts: 285
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:35 am

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:27 pm

Also, is Icelandair running 2x daily on DFW-KEF-DFW some days? I have seen it a few times on flightaware where 2 flights are scheduled to depart about 15 minutes apart, as seen here for today: https://flightaware.com/live/findflight ... ation=BIKF
 
legend500
Posts: 169
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:05 pm

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:49 pm

747superliner wrote:
Being in one of AA's spoke cities a mere 200 miles to the north and having used AA to connect to LH (and other airlines) a fair number of times in the past, goings-on at DFW are very much a big interest of mine, so appreciate all of the great information posted in this thread.

That being said I have a few questions:
- I read in one of the previous posts that AA will be up to 900 daily departures from the current 800. I'm guessing that number includes both, mainline and Eagle ops yes? And 900 would be the peak-day departures?
- With the Terminal D south extension being built (which will handle either four narrowbodies or widebodies concurrently), would the airport need to include another taxilane on the south side of the terminal? Right now, there's that one taxilane and some hardstands directly next to it where RON aircraft or "in-between flights" aircraft are parked (e.g. the QF 388). That area can get tight and I'm wondering how two widebodies will be able to taxi in to the new gates. Granted, the hardstands are angled pretty good but even so, there's not much more additional space.

I'm also wondering what your take is on additional OneWorld carriers operating at DFW. You would thnk with AA's superhub, you would see at least one of Iberia, Aer Lingus, Cathay Pacific or Finnair, even on a seasonal basis. I know AA flies to/from MAD and IB codeshares on that flight so that likely rules out IB starting service (same for CX I guess), but any chance of seeing the others come in at any point in the future? Or is the demand for those carriers just not there in numbers?


How is OKC? ;)

The 900 daily departures number is both mainline and Eagles. I (and DFW) expect this number to eventually hit 1000.

Good eye. The D expansion will require a new taxilane, and DFW has just finished a new, expanded RON pad at at the 4W-B position, or the west end of F. All such equipment will move over there very shortly.

AA seems to want to serve Oneworld mostly with its own metal, for several possible reasons. Almost every route that one of the OW partners would take is served. There are some outside secondary possibilities - DME (on AA metal), NGO (JAL), BCN (IB), MEL (QF) - but really the biggest outstanding market now is India. There's also the eventuality of a BER route if it ever opens, but the loss of AB has set that back significantly. EI has been rumored since the beginning of time itself, but is still unclear
 
747superliner
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2002 2:36 am

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:28 pm

legend500 wrote:
How is OKC? ;)

The 900 daily departures number is both mainline and Eagles. I (and DFW) expect this number to eventually hit 1000.

Good eye. The D expansion will require a new taxilane, and DFW has just finished a new, expanded RON pad at at the 4W-B position, or the west end of F. All such equipment will move over there very shortly.

AA seems to want to serve Oneworld mostly with its own metal, for several possible reasons. Almost every route that one of the OW partners would take is served. There are some outside secondary possibilities - DME (on AA metal), NGO (JAL), BCN (IB), MEL (QF) - but really the biggest outstanding market now is India. There's also the eventuality of a BER route if it ever opens, but the loss of AB has set that back significantly. EI has been rumored since the beginning of time itself, but is still unclear


OKC is doing quite well, thanks for asking! :) It's currently preparing for an east terminal expansion, which also includes building part of the planned east concourse and four new gates.

Back to DFW, makes sense that's where the new RON pad is being built to allow for the second taxilane. And I just realized, should have typed "four narrowbodies or two widebodies".

I agree with a nonstop India route, there's a large Indian Sub-Continent population not just in the Dallas-Ft. Worth area but also in Houston that AA could take advantage of with a nonstop flight. I'm guessing DEL would have an advantage over BOM but I would like to see BOM with a DFW connection :D

1,000 daily departures - DFW is well-positioned for more than that with its seven runways (masterplan includes an eigth parallel on the west side right?).
 
YouGeeElWhy
Posts: 457
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:42 pm

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:37 pm

legend500 wrote:
There are some outside secondary possibilities - DME (on AA metal)

No US3 serving Moscow. If AA were to attempt that it would certainly be from JFK or PHL but it would certainly light money on fire.

legend500 wrote:
NGO (JAL)
Let’s hope
legend500 wrote:
BCN (IB)
AA would be better to serve BCN, but it would canabilize their MAD flight. Maybe IB takes over MAD, but that seems unlikely considering how well that flight does for AA.
legend500 wrote:
MEL (QF)
That would be fantastic, but just not sure how many more ULH routes QF can do. With QF’s Project Sunrise routes like SYD-JFK and SYD-LHR will take precedence.

747superliner wrote:
I'm guessing DEL would have an advantage over BOM but I would like to see BOM with a DFW connection :D
The Indian population in DFW is linked to cities all over India, so you need connections. DFW-DEL is only happening with AI. If AA had a partner to connect flights in DEL or BOM I could see them trying, but that seems like it will never happen for AA from any hub.

747superliner wrote:
1,000 daily departures - DFW
I like the way you think.
 
VTORD
Posts: 620
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:45 pm

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:08 am

YouGeeElWhy wrote:
The Indian population in DFW is linked to cities all over India, so you need connections. DFW-DEL is only happening with AI. If AA had a partner to connect flights in DEL or BOM I could see them trying, but that seems like it will never happen for AA from any hub.

A very distant and remote possibility is that they could tie up with Vistara at the India-end. Vistara has just announced a code share with BA and hopefully that morphs in to something substantial.
 
mfe777
Posts: 285
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:35 am

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:37 pm

Air India would definitely have more of an impact than AA for India-DFW travelers, because of the connections. AA just can't disperse travelers to all the different regions in India the way that AI can. AA has no chance against Emirates and Qatar who can funnel DFW passengers all over India easily and efficiently. If AA thinks it can capture all of the DEL bound traffic or all of BOM bound traffic, then by all means do that but that's about all they can hope for.
 
Planes4you
Posts: 358
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:35 pm

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:43 pm

legend500 wrote:
747superliner wrote:
Being in one of AA's spoke cities a mere 200 miles to the north and having used AA to connect to LH (and other airlines) a fair number of times in the past, goings-on at DFW are very much a big interest of mine, so appreciate all of the great information posted in this thread.

That being said I have a few questions:
- I read in one of the previous posts that AA will be up to 900 daily departures from the current 800. I'm guessing that number includes both, mainline and Eagle ops yes? And 900 would be the peak-day departures?
- With the Terminal D south extension being built (which will handle either four narrowbodies or widebodies concurrently), would the airport need to include another taxilane on the south side of the terminal? Right now, there's that one taxilane and some hardstands directly next to it where RON aircraft or "in-between flights" aircraft are parked (e.g. the QF 388). That area can get tight and I'm wondering how two widebodies will be able to taxi in to the new gates. Granted, the hardstands are angled pretty good but even so, there's not much more additional space.

I'm also wondering what your take is on additional OneWorld carriers operating at DFW. You would thnk with AA's superhub, you would see at least one of Iberia, Aer Lingus, Cathay Pacific or Finnair, even on a seasonal basis. I know AA flies to/from MAD and IB codeshares on that flight so that likely rules out IB starting service (same for CX I guess), but any chance of seeing the others come in at any point in the future? Or is the demand for those carriers just not there in numbers?


How is OKC? ;)

The 900 daily departures number is both mainline and Eagles. I (and DFW) expect this number to eventually hit 1000.

Good eye. The D expansion will require a new taxilane, and DFW has just finished a new, expanded RON pad at at the 4W-B position, or the west end of F. All such equipment will move over there very shortly.

AA seems to want to serve Oneworld mostly with its own metal, for several possible reasons. Almost every route that one of the OW partners would take is served. There are some outside secondary possibilities - DME (on AA metal), NGO (JAL), BCN (IB), MEL (QF) - but really the biggest outstanding market now is India. There's also the eventuality of a BER route if it ever opens, but the loss of AB has set that back significantly. EI has been rumored since the beginning of time itself, but is still unclear


American will never fly to DME especially out of DFW.If iberia doesn’t fly to BCN out of Ord or MIA do you seriously think they’d do DFW-BCN?If anything they’d do Dfw-MAD.The only route that are possible/most likely will happen are DFW-NGO on JAL and DFW-MEL on QF
 
FriscoHeavy
Posts: 1624
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 4:31 pm

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:45 pm

Planes4you wrote:
legend500 wrote:
747superliner wrote:
Being in one of AA's spoke cities a mere 200 miles to the north and having used AA to connect to LH (and other airlines) a fair number of times in the past, goings-on at DFW are very much a big interest of mine, so appreciate all of the great information posted in this thread.

That being said I have a few questions:
- I read in one of the previous posts that AA will be up to 900 daily departures from the current 800. I'm guessing that number includes both, mainline and Eagle ops yes? And 900 would be the peak-day departures?
- With the Terminal D south extension being built (which will handle either four narrowbodies or widebodies concurrently), would the airport need to include another taxilane on the south side of the terminal? Right now, there's that one taxilane and some hardstands directly next to it where RON aircraft or "in-between flights" aircraft are parked (e.g. the QF 388). That area can get tight and I'm wondering how two widebodies will be able to taxi in to the new gates. Granted, the hardstands are angled pretty good but even so, there's not much more additional space.

I'm also wondering what your take is on additional OneWorld carriers operating at DFW. You would thnk with AA's superhub, you would see at least one of Iberia, Aer Lingus, Cathay Pacific or Finnair, even on a seasonal basis. I know AA flies to/from MAD and IB codeshares on that flight so that likely rules out IB starting service (same for CX I guess), but any chance of seeing the others come in at any point in the future? Or is the demand for those carriers just not there in numbers?


How is OKC? ;)

The 900 daily departures number is both mainline and Eagles. I (and DFW) expect this number to eventually hit 1000.

Good eye. The D expansion will require a new taxilane, and DFW has just finished a new, expanded RON pad at at the 4W-B position, or the west end of F. All such equipment will move over there very shortly.

AA seems to want to serve Oneworld mostly with its own metal, for several possible reasons. Almost every route that one of the OW partners would take is served. There are some outside secondary possibilities - DME (on AA metal), NGO (JAL), BCN (IB), MEL (QF) - but really the biggest outstanding market now is India. There's also the eventuality of a BER route if it ever opens, but the loss of AB has set that back significantly. EI has been rumored since the beginning of time itself, but is still unclear


American will never fly to DME especially out of DFW.If iberia doesn’t fly to BCN out of Ord or MIA do you seriously think they’d do DFW-BCN?If anything they’d do Dfw-MAD.The only route that are possible/most likely will happen are DFW-NGO on JAL and DFW-MEL on QF



AA already flies DFW-MAD, son.
Whatever
 
mfe777
Posts: 285
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:35 am

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:05 pm

FriscoHeavy wrote:
Planes4you wrote:
legend500 wrote:

How is OKC? ;)

The 900 daily departures number is both mainline and Eagles. I (and DFW) expect this number to eventually hit 1000.

Good eye. The D expansion will require a new taxilane, and DFW has just finished a new, expanded RON pad at at the 4W-B position, or the west end of F. All such equipment will move over there very shortly.

AA seems to want to serve Oneworld mostly with its own metal, for several possible reasons. Almost every route that one of the OW partners would take is served. There are some outside secondary possibilities - DME (on AA metal), NGO (JAL), BCN (IB), MEL (QF) - but really the biggest outstanding market now is India. There's also the eventuality of a BER route if it ever opens, but the loss of AB has set that back significantly. EI has been rumored since the beginning of time itself, but is still unclear


American will never fly to DME especially out of DFW.If iberia doesn’t fly to BCN out of Ord or MIA do you seriously think they’d do DFW-BCN?If anything they’d do Dfw-MAD.The only route that are possible/most likely will happen are DFW-NGO on JAL and DFW-MEL on QF



AA already flies DFW-MAD, son.


He was talking about Iberia, he said "If iberia doesn’t fly to BCN out of Ord or MIA do you seriously think they’d do DFW-BCN?If anything they’d do Dfw-MAD."

I don't think Iberia on DFW-MAD on top of AA is too far fetched sometime in the future. As DFW-Europe traffic continues to increase there will need to be new ways to funnel the traffic across Europe and there are only so many LHR slots. DFW-MAD on IB or DFW-HEL on Finnair are both ways to increase capacity without using precious LHR slots.
 
DFWAviator76
Posts: 72
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:10 pm

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:07 pm

mfe777 wrote:
If they can't profitably run the A330s on DFW-KEF, I wonder if they'd be open to doing an A321NEO with a tech stop to refuel if needed. With their super low fares, I would still do a tech stop and be happy!


There's no way DFW-KEF with a tech stop would compete with two other carriers doing the route nonstop.
 
FlyingSicilian
Posts: 1620
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:53 pm

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:00 pm

legend500 wrote:


AA seems to want to serve Oneworld mostly with its own metal, for several possible reasons. Almost every route that one of the OW partners would take is served. There are some outside secondary possibilities - DME (on AA metal), NGO (JAL), BCN (IB), MEL (QF) - but really the biggest outstanding market now is India. There's also the eventuality of a BER route if it ever opens, but the loss of AB has set that back significantly. EI has been rumored since the beginning of time itself, but is still unclear


With AA now doing Dublin, the outside chance of Aer Lingus coming to Texas would seem to be AUS in my opinion.

DME ? Not happening any time soon in my opinion. Even with connections, AA would likely fly it from the Northeastern US. Also, more Russians in Houston and many more Russian business ties in Houston as well (Oil/Energy, along with consul/gov't traffic and NASA traffic, which were the prime users of the prior Houston-DME non-stop on Singapore). So Houston would likely see a flight again first, though that is also unlikely given current climate. (Not a Houston-Dallas debate by the way, just a fact on that specific route.)


As others have noted Air India would be the most likely, not AA, for Sub-Continent and the question there would be Dallas or Houston if Texas. The EK beast is a force in both markets already.

I think more Latin traffic growth would be the goal, and maybe a more "secondary" airport in Europe or Japan in the near future. Just my thoughts, YMMV.
“Without seeing Sicily it is impossible to understand Italy.Sicily is the key of everything.”-Goethe "Journey to Italy"
 
mfe777
Posts: 285
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:35 am

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:59 pm

DFWAviator76 wrote:
mfe777 wrote:
If they can't profitably run the A330s on DFW-KEF, I wonder if they'd be open to doing an A321NEO with a tech stop to refuel if needed. With their super low fares, I would still do a tech stop and be happy!


There's no way DFW-KEF with a tech stop would compete with two other carriers doing the route nonstop.


I said a flight "with a tech stop if needed" not a scheduled tech stop. DFW-KEF is right at the end of the range of an A321NEO but it can be done, and was done nonstop with an A321NEO when one of their A330s went tech. If they could get A321NEO-LR then DFW-KEF would be a piece of cake. Either scenario opens up the possibility of a tech stop for fuel if they're against strong headwinds but for the prices they charge, people shouldn't complain too much.
 
legend500
Posts: 169
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:05 pm

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:31 pm

Calm down all, there's a reason I triple-qualified by saying those routes were "outside secondary possibilities."

DME only comes up in the context of the original point, which was Oneworld centric. Of the Oneworlds with a domestic market, S7 is the only one no served by a DFW route. Therefore, in that context, it's the next one. Similarly, the original point asked about foreign metal, and while DME isn't gonna be served by S7, the other options are the remaining options I see for foreign Oneworld metal. They're not likely.

FlyingSicilian wrote:
With AA now doing Dublin, the outside chance of Aer Lingus coming to Texas would seem to be AUS in my opinion.

DME ? Not happening any time soon in my opinion. Even with connections, AA would likely fly it from the Northeastern US. Also, more Russians in Houston and many more Russian business ties in Houston as well (Oil/Energy, along with consul/gov't traffic and NASA traffic, which were the prime users of the prior Houston-DME non-stop on Singapore). So Houston would likely see a flight again first, though that is also unlikely given current climate. (Not a Houston-Dallas debate by the way, just a fact on that specific route.)


As others have noted Air India would be the most likely, not AA, for Sub-Continent and the question there would be Dallas or Houston if Texas. The EK beast is a force in both markets already.


EI would make an interesting choice to AUS. That may just be an incredibly interesting play.

As far as DME being better for IAH - absolutely. and yes, the current climate makes that unlikely. Still, this one only comes about as a result of an alliance play, and DFW would at least get some domestic feed on the DME end from S7. One thing is for certain - Dallas' banking, insurance and aviation aren't gonna be major trade players with Russia for a long, long time. ;)

Yeah, I shoulda made clear that any India route is gonna be on AI metal - especially since they've already announced the route to DFW... wait they unannounced... wait they announced they want DFW or IAH.... wait no...

Ideally the twins would pair up in some combination with DEL and BOM, but that's probably not in the cards.

mfe777 wrote:
He was talking about Iberia, he said "If iberia doesn’t fly to BCN out of Ord or MIA do you seriously think they’d do DFW-BCN?If anything they’d do Dfw-MAD."

I don't think Iberia on DFW-MAD on top of AA is too far fetched sometime in the future. As DFW-Europe traffic continues to increase there will need to be new ways to funnel the traffic across Europe and there are only so many LHR slots. DFW-MAD on IB or DFW-HEL on Finnair are both ways to increase capacity without using precious LHR slots.


And again, "secondary." I think IB would be crazy to fly BCN-DFW or double up MAD-DFW, but that's one of the outside options for foreign metal. An AA flying DFW-BCN though is probably just a matter of frames and Terminal D expansion at this point.
VTORD wrote:
A very distant and remote possibility is that they could tie up with Vistara at the India-end. Vistara has just announced a code share with BA and hopefully that morphs in to something substantial.


Interesting move. That is how the cooperation with AB started - with an IAG tie-up. Interesting and sensible possibility.

747superliner wrote:
1,000 daily departures - DFW is well-positioned for more than that with its seven runways (masterplan includes an eigth parallel on the west side right?).

A new 18R/36L (the current one would become 18C/36C) makes an occasional appearance every now and again, but there's really no need and it's not in the current 10-year plan. Right now, DFW's runways only operate at around 75% capacity, and even going to 1000 would barely reach 90%. Plus, the addition of the NE and SW end-arounds will actually improve current capacity, so there's really no need.
 
tkoenig95
Posts: 301
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:39 pm

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:10 pm

FlyingSicilian wrote:
legend500 wrote:


AA seems to want to serve Oneworld mostly with its own metal, for several possible reasons. Almost every route that one of the OW partners would take is served. There are some outside secondary possibilities - DME (on AA metal), NGO (JAL), BCN (IB), MEL (QF) - but really the biggest outstanding market now is India. There's also the eventuality of a BER route if it ever opens, but the loss of AB has set that back significantly. EI has been rumored since the beginning of time itself, but is still unclear


With AA now doing Dublin, the outside chance of Aer Lingus coming to Texas would seem to be AUS in my opinion.




With the authoritarian-style management that IAG has running its airlines I think its safe to say they would never allow EI to compete with BA in AUS, or any mid-tier market for that matter. Another connection to/from Europe will have to come from a competing alliance. Internal cannibalization is something partner airlines don't like to play around with especially in a market that is newly profitable.
 
texan
Posts: 4070
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 2:23 am

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:44 pm

legend500 wrote:
MEL (QF)

Rumour has it this isn’t too far away (though who knows how far away ‘not too far’ is—likely within 2 years is my guess). It is a rather strong candidate. Though I would personally prefer AA just hurry up and open 3x weekly DFW-AKL for Northern winter, even though I hate flying AA.
Texan
"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
 
mfe777
Posts: 285
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:35 am

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:02 am

Even though I like DFW's layout as a DFW based user, I understand AA's concern with the layout of check in facilities and other facilities being spread out over 5-6 terminals increasing costs. Could a signature centralized entry, check-in, and security complex ever be built on either the north or south end of the airport property and then connect it to Skylink? I understand that it would be expensive and would make most of the terminal parking garages useless but it would centralize things pretty nicely.

Maybe they could use the terminal adjacent garages as the "remote" parking and bus shuttle people there from the centralized check-in/entry/exit. Then, new garages could be built around the new entry/check-in and that would be the premium parking. If they built this complex on the north end, they could integrate the DART rail and TEX rail lines that enter DFW from the north in a more user friendly way.

Then, seal off all the individual terminal entries/security/check-in areas and use that precious space for additional retail, dining, lounge, office, and service areas.
 
deltaffindfw
Posts: 1503
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 7:42 am

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:11 am

The TRIP program was already late and way over budget. I seriously doubt AA is willing to invest tons more money to create a central terminal complex and then basically gut the terminals that they (DFW) spent billions of dollars renovating just a few years ago. That still won't solve the issue of the need for new gates.

Remember that despite the added costs of staffing the 5 terminals, DFW is one of the 3 most profitable hubs in the AA system.
 
DFWandOMA
Topic Author
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 2:41 am

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:40 am

With DUB being announced by AA, I don't see EI coming anymore to DFW. In terms of new international service I could maybe see seasonal service to BCN in a year or so by AA, but beyond that I think Europe is covered.
 
4engines4lnghll
Posts: 213
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:25 am

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:03 am

deltaffindfw wrote:
The TRIP program was already late and way over budget. I seriously doubt AA is willing to invest tons more money to create a central terminal complex and then basically gut the terminals that they (DFW) spent billions of dollars renovating just a few years ago. That still won't solve the issue of the need for new gates.

Remember that despite the added costs of staffing the 5 terminals, DFW is one of the 3 most profitable hubs in the AA system.


ONE of the 3? Lol more like no1
4engines4lnghll
 
DeltaXNA
Posts: 458
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:52 am

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:28 am

4engines4lnghll wrote:
deltaffindfw wrote:
The TRIP program was already late and way over budget. I seriously doubt AA is willing to invest tons more money to create a central terminal complex and then basically gut the terminals that they (DFW) spent billions of dollars renovating just a few years ago. That still won't solve the issue of the need for new gates.

Remember that despite the added costs of staffing the 5 terminals, DFW is one of the 3 most profitable hubs in the AA system.


ONE of the 3? Lol more like no1




Actually, CLT is the most profitable hub and DFW is number 2.
 
mfe777
Posts: 285
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:35 am

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:49 pm

With Air France bringing a nonstop Skyteam presence between DFW and Europe, I wanted to look a little deeper on how the big 3 alliances are represented in DFW on an intercontinental basis, and if we may see any more adds:

Oneworld:
Obviously well connected to all inhabited continents except Africa

Skyteam:
Europe- Air France
Asia- Korean Air
Central/South America- kind of Aeromexico, not really in Central/South America but able to connect DFW to them
Oceania- No partner in Oceania

Star Alliance:
Europe- Lufthansa (plus rumor of Turkish coming in 2019)
Asia- None
South/Central America- Avianca
Oceania- None

I doubt we will see Air New Zealand in DFW anytime soon or any African routes, so that really just leaves Star Alliance to Asia as the biggest gap. Does anybody see one of their carriers entering DFW soon? My guess, in order of likelihood, would be EVA Air to Taipei, Air China to Beijing, ANA to Tokyo or Osaka, and last a Singapore Airlines route via 5th freedom somewhere like they do for Houston, probably via Japan.
 
User avatar
chepos
Posts: 7020
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:54 pm

mfe777 wrote:
With Air France bringing a nonstop Skyteam presence between DFW and Europe, I wanted to look a little deeper on how the big 3 alliances are represented in DFW on an intercontinental basis, and if we may see any more adds:

Oneworld:
Obviously well connected to all inhabited continents except Africa

Skyteam:
Europe- Air France
Asia- Korean Air
Central/South America- kind of Aeromexico, not really in Central/South America but able to connect DFW to them
Oceania- No partner in Oceania

Star Alliance:
Europe- Lufthansa (plus rumor of Turkish coming in 2019)
Asia- None
South/Central America- Avianca
Oceania- None

I doubt we will see Air New Zealand in DFW anytime soon or any African routes, so that really just leaves Star Alliance to Asia as the biggest gap. Does anybody see one of their carriers entering DFW soon? My guess, in order of likelihood, would be EVA Air to Taipei, Air China to Beijing, ANA to Tokyo or Osaka, and last a Singapore Airlines route via 5th freedom somewhere like they do for Houston, probably via Japan.


I don’t see any of the Asian Star carriers touching DFW with a 10 foot pole. BR already flies to IAH (don't they have a bus that goes up to the Metroplex?), ANA would face stiff competition from JL/AA. CA already flies to IAH plus China is already well covered by AA out of DFW.
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
mfe777
Posts: 285
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Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:29 pm

chepos wrote:
mfe777 wrote:
With Air France bringing a nonstop Skyteam presence between DFW and Europe, I wanted to look a little deeper on how the big 3 alliances are represented in DFW on an intercontinental basis, and if we may see any more adds:

Oneworld:
Obviously well connected to all inhabited continents except Africa

Skyteam:
Europe- Air France
Asia- Korean Air
Central/South America- kind of Aeromexico, not really in Central/South America but able to connect DFW to them
Oceania- No partner in Oceania

Star Alliance:
Europe- Lufthansa (plus rumor of Turkish coming in 2019)
Asia- None
South/Central America- Avianca
Oceania- None

I doubt we will see Air New Zealand in DFW anytime soon or any African routes, so that really just leaves Star Alliance to Asia as the biggest gap. Does anybody see one of their carriers entering DFW soon? My guess, in order of likelihood, would be EVA Air to Taipei, Air China to Beijing, ANA to Tokyo or Osaka, and last a Singapore Airlines route via 5th freedom somewhere like they do for Houston, probably via Japan.


I don’t see any of the Asian Star carriers touching DFW with a 10 foot pole. BR already flies to IAH (don't they have a bus that goes up to the Metroplex?), ANA would face stiff competition from JL/AA. CA already flies to IAH plus China is already well covered by AA out of DFW.


But isn't that what people said about Air France, that you can't beat Oneworld in DFW? Well, they're coming back. Also, as far as Star goes Lufthansa competes very well on DFW-Europe traffic and always has very high load factors. Star would have a plethora of connection opportunities throughout Asia through their hubs in NRT, HND, ICN, or PEK. AA has JAL in NRT and CX in HKG but there are definitely advantages in the Star Alliance Asia hubs.

I also forgot to mention Air India, they've been rumored for awhile but that is one loooooong flight. It would probably have great load factors but making money is another story.
 
blink182
Posts: 5369
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 1999 3:09 am

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:52 pm

mfe777 wrote:
chepos wrote:
mfe777 wrote:
With Air France bringing a nonstop Skyteam presence between DFW and Europe, I wanted to look a little deeper on how the big 3 alliances are represented in DFW on an intercontinental basis, and if we may see any more adds:

Oneworld:
Obviously well connected to all inhabited continents except Africa

Skyteam:
Europe- Air France
Asia- Korean Air
Central/South America- kind of Aeromexico, not really in Central/South America but able to connect DFW to them
Oceania- No partner in Oceania

Star Alliance:
Europe- Lufthansa (plus rumor of Turkish coming in 2019)
Asia- None
South/Central America- Avianca
Oceania- None

I doubt we will see Air New Zealand in DFW anytime soon or any African routes, so that really just leaves Star Alliance to Asia as the biggest gap. Does anybody see one of their carriers entering DFW soon? My guess, in order of likelihood, would be EVA Air to Taipei, Air China to Beijing, ANA to Tokyo or Osaka, and last a Singapore Airlines route via 5th freedom somewhere like they do for Houston, probably via Japan.


I don’t see any of the Asian Star carriers touching DFW with a 10 foot pole. BR already flies to IAH (don't they have a bus that goes up to the Metroplex?), ANA would face stiff competition from JL/AA. CA already flies to IAH plus China is already well covered by AA out of DFW.


But isn't that what people said about Air France, that you can't beat Oneworld in DFW? Well, they're coming back. Also, as far as Star goes Lufthansa competes very well on DFW-Europe traffic and always has very high load factors. Star would have a plethora of connection opportunities throughout Asia through their hubs in NRT, HND, ICN, or PEK. AA has JAL in NRT and CX in HKG but there are definitely advantages in the Star Alliance Asia hubs.

I also forgot to mention Air India, they've been rumored for awhile but that is one loooooong flight. It would probably have great load factors but making money is another story.


The difference is that in the summer you have to actively try to not make money over the Atlantic, hence AF is seasonal and is banking on the CDG hub. Lufthansa has been in DFW for well over 30 years, and they’ve built a brand and reputation and their home market is a strong, stable economy. The Pacific is a very different story, and it’s telling that outside of NRT and HKG AA has downgauged everything to 787s and has more or less admitted their China flying is not profitable in isolation.

Unless the incentives are strong or it’s a government priority, thus giving the airline little choice, I wouldn’t hold my breath.
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
mutu
Posts: 496
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:04 am

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:49 pm

tkoenig95 wrote:
FlyingSicilian wrote:
legend500 wrote:

With AA now doing Dublin, the outside chance of Aer Lingus coming to Texas would seem to be AUS in my opinion.




With the authoritarian-style management that IAG has running its airlines I think its safe to say they would never allow EI to compete with BA in AUS, or any mid-tier market for that matter. Another connection to/from Europe will have to come from a competing alliance. Internal cannibalization is something partner airlines don't like to play around with especially in a market that is newly profitable.


It is fair to say IAG target each brand with a ROCE threshold, performance against which determines the level of investment to be approved (if any!)

But that seems to be part of the success of IAG. I believe Lufthansa takes an equally strong approach to its sister brands and that contributes to its success.

I also believe AFKLM is less successful in this area as any pro KLM investment is seized on by AF as an attack n AF rather than a sensible business decision. This may be contributing to AFKLM's current problems, but still a decent business nonetheless.

And of course an airline group would not prioritise competing with itself. However if IAG felt the market was there, they would! There are after all plenty of common destinations for BA/EI. But probably not for the thinner/secondary markets until demand is confidently in excess of supply. AUS is now well established and can probably handle LH entering/DE leaving without too much impact on BA. But this isn't a time to throw in a sister competitor!
 
Brandon757
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:16 pm

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:19 pm

Lufthansa is bringing in the 346 for the rest of the month to DFW. I am not sure what the reasoning is, but enjoy it.
 
Sooner787
Posts: 2636
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:44 am

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:42 pm

Brandon757 wrote:
Lufthansa is bringing in the 346 for the rest of the month to DFW. I am not sure what the reasoning is, but enjoy it.


That is good news. Not so good news is BA is pulling their 744's from DFW after 27 Oct, replaced by their 77W I believe.

Hopefully the Queen returns next spring/summer
 
redwingspilot
Posts: 135
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:29 pm

Sooner787 wrote:
Brandon757 wrote:
Lufthansa is bringing in the 346 for the rest of the month to DFW. I am not sure what the reasoning is, but enjoy it.


That is good news. Not so good news is BA is pulling their 744's from DFW after 27 Oct, replaced by their 77W I believe.

Hopefully the Queen returns next spring/summer


As of right now 31 MAR the 747 returns.
 
dfdubflyer
Posts: 155
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:01 am

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:16 pm

Flew the Queen on Saturday in World Traveller Plus. The novelty of the 747 is great but the hard product is sorely outdated vis-a-vis American
 
BA777FO
Posts: 453
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:58 pm

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:23 pm

Sooner787 wrote:
Brandon757 wrote:
Lufthansa is bringing in the 346 for the rest of the month to DFW. I am not sure what the reasoning is, but enjoy it.


That is good news. Not so good news is BA is pulling their 744's from DFW after 27 Oct, replaced by their 77W I believe.

Hopefully the Queen returns next spring/summer


The BA193 is on a RR 777-200ER for the winter, flight times to the last rotation of the day for AA/BA. AUS gets the 77W this winter and IAH is a 787-9 and a 777-200ER.

Unfortunately the RR 777s will be the last to get a much needed upgrade, it'll be a couple of years before that starts. The mid-J 747s currently on the DFW route are starting to get upgrades akin to the super hi-J 747s but I think only 2 of 16 have been completed so far. I think two are due to leave the fleet by the end of next year but there's flex in the program, largely due to 787 engine issues.

So far DFW goes back to the 747 in S19 but the schedules/aircraft types won't be finalised until late November.
 
mfe777
Posts: 285
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:35 am

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:29 pm

BA777FO wrote:
Sooner787 wrote:
Brandon757 wrote:
Lufthansa is bringing in the 346 for the rest of the month to DFW. I am not sure what the reasoning is, but enjoy it.


That is good news. Not so good news is BA is pulling their 744's from DFW after 27 Oct, replaced by their 77W I believe.

Hopefully the Queen returns next spring/summer


The BA193 is on a RR 777-200ER for the winter, flight times to the last rotation of the day for AA/BA. AUS gets the 77W this winter and IAH is a 787-9 and a 777-200ER.

Unfortunately the RR 777s will be the last to get a much needed upgrade, it'll be a couple of years before that starts. The mid-J 747s currently on the DFW route are starting to get upgrades akin to the super hi-J 747s but I think only 2 of 16 have been completed so far. I think two are due to leave the fleet by the end of next year but there's flex in the program, largely due to 787 engine issues.

So far DFW goes back to the 747 in S19 but the schedules/aircraft types won't be finalised until late November.


BA really needs to step it up on their important superhub to superhub route. Better equipment and more frequency. The least they could do is match AA's hard product on this joint venture route. When do the 787-10s start to arrive? 2x 787-10s daily to DFW maybe?
 
BA777FO
Posts: 453
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:58 pm

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:41 am

mfe777 wrote:
BA777FO wrote:
Sooner787 wrote:

That is good news. Not so good news is BA is pulling their 744's from DFW after 27 Oct, replaced by their 77W I believe.

Hopefully the Queen returns next spring/summer


The BA193 is on a RR 777-200ER for the winter, flight times to the last rotation of the day for AA/BA. AUS gets the 77W this winter and IAH is a 787-9 and a 777-200ER.

Unfortunately the RR 777s will be the last to get a much needed upgrade, it'll be a couple of years before that starts. The mid-J 747s currently on the DFW route are starting to get upgrades akin to the super hi-J 747s but I think only 2 of 16 have been completed so far. I think two are due to leave the fleet by the end of next year but there's flex in the program, largely due to 787 engine issues.

So far DFW goes back to the 747 in S19 but the schedules/aircraft types won't be finalised until late November.


BA really needs to step it up on their important superhub to superhub route. Better equipment and more frequency. The least they could do is match AA's hard product on this joint venture route. When do the 787-10s start to arrive? 2x 787-10s daily to DFW maybe?


They are stepping up - the refurbs of the mid-J 747s are very nice, but it might take until the end of S19 to complete them. Then the RR powered 777s will get their refurb. There's a new Club/J seat coming next year too, but as with a lot of things it'll take a while before that gets rolled out elsewhere. The new WT, WT+ seats, IFE and wi-fi upgrades are all taking place. There's new enhanced catering and the pillows/duvets for Club from The White Company are some of the nicest of an J product.

That said, if you have to put your least desirable product somewhere, do it where there's a lack of competition - LHR-DFW is sown up by BA/AA, they can get away with it on that route. As for the future, the 77W is a possobility, 3 more are on their way in 2020 and it was on the 77W a couple of summers ago. But BA/AA are in a joint venture on the route, this summer AA will have 4 daily flights and BA one, they'll coordinate as required but given that it's AA's main hub I doubt BA will go above once daily. The 787-10 is probably right-size for capacity but with no cabin crew bunks they'll probably be used elsewhere. The 77W would be ideal, but it's BA so who knows?!
 
DFWAviator76
Posts: 72
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:10 pm

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:11 pm

BA777FO wrote:
That said, if you have to put your least desirable product somewhere, do it where there's a lack of competition - LHR-DFW is sown up by BA/AA, they can get away with it on that route.


This.

Refurbs don't and can't happen overnight, and when there are already 3-4 daily flights on the JV route, it just makes sense to put this product there. My guess is that a larger-than-usual percentage of seats on this flights are occupied by award redemptions (which, as we all know, still generate a ton of fee revenue for BA - I wonder if and how the BA/AA JV addresses all the extra fees that BA tags on to award tickets?)
 
DFWandOMA
Topic Author
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 2:41 am

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:49 pm

I know this should be taken with a grain of salt, but I spoke with a DFW based pilot who flies the DFW-FCO route frequently and he said there are talks of making this route year round due to its performance.
 
mfe777
Posts: 285
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:35 am

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:14 pm

DFWandOMA wrote:
I know this should be taken with a grain of salt, but I spoke with a DFW based pilot who flies the DFW-FCO route frequently and he said there are talks of making this route year round due to its performance.


Hopefully AMS too. It's already been upgauged to a 777.
 
DFWAviator76
Posts: 72
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:10 pm

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:51 pm

DFWandOMA wrote:
I know this should be taken with a grain of salt, but I spoke with a DFW based pilot who flies the DFW-FCO route frequently and he said there are talks of making this route year round due to its performance.


I wouldn't be surprised if DFW-FCO goes year-round, or DFW-AMS.

I think DFW-MUC has a decent chance of going year-round as well, if the first seasonal year works out well.

I wonder if we'd ever see DFW-MXP.
 
DFWandOMA
Topic Author
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 2:41 am

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:19 pm

With long haul destinations being pretty cemented in for 2019, I could see 2020 additions be to make some routes year round or add more seasonal routes. The biggest one I see is DFW-BCN.
 
DFWAviator76
Posts: 72
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:10 pm

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:31 pm

DFWandOMA wrote:
With long haul destinations being pretty cemented in for 2019, I could see 2020 additions be to make some routes year round or add more seasonal routes. The biggest one I see is DFW-BCN.


After the additions of MUC, DUB, etc., BCN is definitely the biggest hole in AA's European network from DFW. If fuel prices are reasonable a year from now, my guess is that would be a seasonal add.

As far as other airlines are concerned, if the situation in Turkey ever improves, I wonder if DFW-IST on TK is a possibility in 2020 or 2021.
 
DFWAviator76
Posts: 72
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:10 pm

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:31 pm

DFWandOMA wrote:
With long haul destinations being pretty cemented in for 2019, I could see 2020 additions be to make some routes year round or add more seasonal routes. The biggest one I see is DFW-BCN.


After the additions of MUC, DUB, etc., BCN is definitely the biggest hole in AA's European network from DFW. If fuel prices are reasonable a year from now, my guess is that would be a seasonal add.

As far as other airlines are concerned, if the situation in Turkey ever improves, I wonder if DFW-IST on TK is a possibility in 2020 or 2021.
 
DFWAviator76
Posts: 72
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:10 pm

Re: DFW 2018 Developments

Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:35 pm

DFWandOMA wrote:
With long haul destinations being pretty cemented in for 2019, I could see 2020 additions be to make some routes year round or add more seasonal routes. The biggest one I see is DFW-BCN.


After the additions of MUC, DUB, etc., BCN is definitely the biggest hole in AA's European network from DFW. If fuel prices are reasonable a year from now, my guess is that would be a seasonal add.

As far as other airlines are concerned, if the situation in Turkey ever improves, I wonder if DFW-IST on TK is a possibility in 2020 or 2021.
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