Would a merger between Hawaiian, Alaska, and JetBlue work well?

None of them are low-cost carriers, but none of them are legacy airlines. They are all considered boutique airlines with certain regional strengths and many network weaknesses. Joining the three airlines together would create a decent US (including Hawaii and Alaska, obviously) and Caribbean/South American network.

JetBlue has very strong brand loyalty in New York and Boston. People love JetBlue and will fly them whenever it is possible! Terminal 5 at JFK is excellent, even though it has to deal with NYC ATC delays. Its Florida and Caribbean network is excellent from both BOS and JFK, not to mention LGA and EWR. SJU is unique among US carriers, but it may not be as important in the near future due to the hurricane. FLL is another large operation, and B6 could build it up to rival MIA in terms of destinations. Or they could do the same with SJU, but I see FLL as more likely. Feed from Alaska's PNW network would really help this. The operation at Long Beach is also strong, albeit smaller. I see Long Beach being reduced to a small focus city or spoke in a merger scenario.

Hawaiian offers a great network within Hawaii, and it consistently rates well on customer service rankings, along with AS and B6. Hawaiian serves most major US cities, but they do have limited East Coast frequencies. However, Hawaii only seems to be becoming more popular among travelers, and there are well-heeled leisure travelers willing to pay for business class. Hawaiian has a large Asian and Australian/New Zealand network. This offers enticing connection opportunities from the ENTIRE US due to HNL's geographic location.

Alaska is very strong on the West Coast, with large operations in SFO, LAX, SAN, PDX, and SEA. This is unmatched among US carriers. No other airline offers the breadth of service from every major West Coast city. I only see this as an advantage in the current AS. With a merger, a few cities would have to be reduced and connections pushed through SEA and maybe SAN or SFO. PDX is probably too small, and LAX has no room. The Virgin America routes have brought in new customers to the brand, and it has helped AS with transcontinental service. Alaska is also a huge strength for the brand, and nobody can compete with them there. AS and B6 do have one gaping hole, though: the Midwest. I do not envision this changing, even with a merger. It is going to be tough for these airlines to crack those markets, and their customers may not really demand it. As long as the major markets are covered, a merged airline does not really need to worry about small cities between the coasts too much. They need to focus their energy on NYC, BOS, SEA, FLL, SJU, HNL, and one California city (whichever they choose to).

So, what do you guys think?

1)AS hasn't finished merging with Virgin America yet
2)Hawaiian is too much of an icon to disappear
3)JetBlue.......same as Hawaiian

VS4ever wrote:

Ahh the first merger thread of 2018. Wouldn’t be the same without one. Please no more mergers, we are about ok as we are right now with some checks and balances.
Many people have said AS/B6 would work with an east and west set up matching nicely, HA doesn’t bring a whole lot to the party to be honest and are fine as they are. But as noted AS really has to get VX integrated first before thinking that way.
But I repeat, no more mergers. May be good for Wall Street so I can’t say it won’t happen, but as a consumer, not interested.

I agree with you as a consumer! This is really meant for once VX is fully integrated, but that should happen soon. Also, HA seems like a good add to the two, though. It does offer great Hawaiian service, and HNL is a solid connecting airport that could be better utilized. B6 and AS would be the anchors, and Hawaiian would be a niche service, like UA's Guam service (but quite different).

Not going to happen anytime soon. None of the three airlines can afford each other at this time.

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wedgetail737 wrote:

Not going to happen anytime soon. None of the three airlines can afford each other at this time.

I am not asking if it's feasible, but whether it would work well and make sense? If money were no issue, would these three airlines complement each other nicely? I think they very well would.

ill say this though, B6 needs to get their Customer Service (front facing at hub airports especially) in order. I have flown them very regularly throughout their system and starting with SJU a couple of years back and now really throughout their system, the agents are truly bad. Customers are ignored while they conversate with each other, and attitude up to and including challenging the customer to a fight has been witnessed more than once.
Ive written the carrier as to what ive experienced and even worse what ive seen and no response. Its truly sad because I love them, the flight crews are great, when the old A320 interiors are replaced (which cant happen fast enough) they come 2nd for me to Delta, but man, its embarrassing out there and that behavior is due to bad/lack of management.

For Alaska: Its well known I am off a rail at this carrier for being allowed to gobble up and destroy VX, so whatever with them, they have a long way to go and likely wont stay Alaska for too much longer.

For Hawaiian: They are Hawaii, that's it, I flew them for the first time this year in Premium Econ on an A330 and expecting a truly amazing experience. It was very amateur and HNL is a disaster for passengers, never again with them.

B6 can be the top dog of these three easily for decades if they get their head out of wall street and into their actual business again

rj777 wrote:

1)AS hasn't finished merging with Virgin America yet
2)Hawaiian is too much of an icon to disappear
3)JetBlue.......same as Hawaiian

Many of an icon has disappeared overtime even if it was 'too much of an icon to disappear' no icon is too much of an icon to disappear I can assure you, just look back at all the previous great icons in aviation that have disappeared over the years.

It would be pretty odd to have an airline that large with only coastal concentrations. You’d get some of the usual economies of scale, but not much network synergy.

SFOtoORD wrote:

It would be pretty odd to have an airline that large with only coastal concentrations. You’d get some of the usual economies of scale, but not much network synergy.

Yes, it would be odd. I do think it could work, though. Many business travelers spend most of their time between the coasts, SEA, LAX, SFO, BOS, NYC, PHL, DCA, IAD, BWI, etc. For the occasional ORD, DFW, IAH, or ATL flight, they would just fly another airline. Or they would be based at a merger hub, and they would likely have nonstops to those cities but not PIT, CLE, ROC, BDL, RIC, CVG, MKE, DSM, etc.

rj777 wrote:

1)AS hasn't finished merging with Virgin America yet
2)Hawaiian is too much of an icon to disappear
3)JetBlue.......same as Hawaiian

What if they merge under a holding group while keeping the brands alive but streamline the FF programs? Horizon could be the regional for the combined airline.

rj777 wrote:

1)AS hasn't finished merging with Virgin America yet
2)Hawaiian is too much of an icon to disappear
3)JetBlue.......same as Hawaiian

HA and B6 more iconic than....Northwest? TWA? PSA....AIR JAMAICA (ok yes to that one) but still. Not sure anyone has passed up a good deal because the target was too iconic (the parceling of Pan Am).
AA and US got together before HP finished erasing themselves in the merger with US (or something). Close enough to the same thing?

An AS and B6 merger would be nice eventually, but AS needs to finish with the VX merger first and both need to build up their presence in the central part of the country.

rj777 wrote:

1)AS hasn't finished merging with Virgin America yet
2)Hawaiian is too much of an icon to disappear
3)JetBlue.......same as Hawaiian

JetBlue has a strong brand connection with customers in the Northeast, but to call it an "Icon" is a stretch, it's only a few years older than VX was and has way less history behind it than either the AS or HA brands. Alaska already has something like 30 daily Hawaii flights from the west coast and HA doesn't offer much else beyond it's international flying and simply a bigger chunk of market share. I imagine a tie up with HA would go down like a lead balloon with consumer groups and probably wouldn't seem worth the resources and cost to investors.

NWADTWE16 wrote:

ill say this though, B6 needs to get their Customer Service (front facing at hub airports especially) in order. I have flown them very regularly throughout their system and starting with SJU a couple of years back and now really throughout their system, the agents are truly bad. Customers are ignored while they conversate with each other, and attitude up to and including challenging the customer to a fight has been witnessed more than once.
Ive written the carrier as to what ive experienced and even worse what ive seen and no response. Its truly sad because I love them, the flight crews are great, when the old A320 interiors are replaced (which cant happen fast enough) they come 2nd for me to Delta, but man, its embarrassing out there and that behavior is due to bad/lack of management.

For Alaska: Its well known I am off a rail at this carrier for being allowed to gobble up and destroy VX, so whatever with them, they have a long way to go and likely wont stay Alaska for too much longer.

For Hawaiian: They are Hawaii, that's it, I flew them for the first time this year in Premium Econ on an A330 and expecting a truly amazing experience. It was very amateur and HNL is a disaster for passengers, never again with them.

B6 can be the top dog of these three easily for decades if they get their head out of wall street and into their actual business again

You come off as someone extremely hard to please...yeesh

I want to see a DL/AA/UA/WN/AS/HA/B6/G4/NK/F9 merger and call it "Monopoly Airlines" Think of the route network!

AS + B6 merger will create another national hub/spoke network carrier so it makes some sense purely from a network and coverage perspective (not talking whether it is legally or financially feasible). The combined carrier will have hubs in NYC, Miami (FLL), LA, SF, and Seattle - not a bad setup. From a competitive standpoint, the combined carrier may have enough scale to scare the Big 3 network carrier.

Adding HA in the mix actually doesn't make any sense. HA is focused on a single market and it is best to just let it do what it does best.

Over a period of 10 years I think this makes a lot of sense.
First of all, no airline is too iconic. If so we'd certainly have the most iconic brand still flying strong with PanAm and TWA. Or Eastern.
Second, just how is Alaska "destroying" Virgin? Changes for sure, but Alaska has very good customer service and decent planes...and they are getting better. No purple lights or some of the other features of Virgin, but AS has a good culture. A very young fleet. New interiors coming and OK food.

As an AS Gold, there is one big issue I am seeing with their growth - they are a regional carrier for the most part, but the Big Three don't want to partner with AS because they are all competing now. Not having AA or DL to connect with through out the mid-west or Eastern region is a serious issue. Say I want to fly from Seattle to Syracuse or Providence, it becomes an issue if I want my miles towards AS.
AS needs a stronger network back East and B6 could be just the ticket.
Here is another airline with a strong following and culture. It would be a good complement to AS. Hawaiian maybe. I like the idea of the connections throughout Asia and Australia. This could be opened up even more with AS flight from SEA to Honolulu and contuining to Bangkok! How sweet would that be. And with B6's hubs it would be easy to expand into Europe and possibly Africa. Suddenly AS is a true grown up!

But as said, AS needs to finish the integration with Virgin. All those new A321's need to have a game plan (return them? Keep them?). If these three merge down the road, I would think keeping all those AB's would be a smart move for AS. Just change Proudly All Boeing to Our 737's are Proudly All Boeing

Cunard wrote:

rj777 wrote:

1)AS hasn't finished merging with Virgin America yet
2)Hawaiian is too much of an icon to disappear
3)JetBlue.......same as Hawaiian

'too much of an icon to disappear'

Didn't somebody say that about:

Pan Am
TWA
Eastern
Continental

airportlover wrote:

Would a merger between Hawaiian, Alaska, and JetBlue work well?

I have seen numerous threads on this topic but I will share my bit:

I think a merger between AS and B6 could work, just not in the next few years, as long as they can expand some of their network focus away from the coasts and add throughout the middle of the country. The only sizable station they have in the middle of the country is DAL...

Also, what would the Departement say about such a merger? They would have to give up some assets, presumably

rj777 wrote:

1)AS hasn't finished merging with Virgin America yet
2)Hawaiian is too much of an icon to disappear
3)JetBlue.......same as Hawaiian

Neither HA or B6 are icons and even if they were, just look at PA and TW and where they are now. Either way, a merger between HA/AS/B6 isn't happening. While an AS/B6 merger is a more likely occurrence in the future, after AS has finished integrating VX into its operations, a B6/AS merger would attract considerable Justice Department scrutiny and likely result in some slot divestitures. Neither airline can afford the other and so the issue is moot.

Hawaiian is a niche player and a solid company, but it does not offer a network worthy of a merger. HNL airport isn't designed to be a transit hub for large scale volume and HA's long haul services to Asia, Micronesia, Australia and New Zealand do not necessarily coincide with connections from mainland US flights inbound to HNL.

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SFOtoORD wrote:

It would be pretty odd to have an airline that large with only coastal concentrations. You’d get some of the usual economies of scale, but not much network synergy.

AS has been very busy adding new mid-con flights from SEA, SFO, SJC, LAX and SAN...adding flights to MCI, STL, MSY, IND and others. This is a game plan not yet attempted by B6 and I'm not sure why. AS should buy B6 after digesting VX (after 2019) and then add mid-con flying from their east coast hubs.

Midwestindy wrote:

airportlover wrote:

Would a merger between Hawaiian, Alaska, and JetBlue work well?

I have seen numerous threads on this topic but I will share my bit:

I think a merger between AS and B6 could work, just not in the next few years, as long as they can expand some of their network focus away from the coasts and add throughout the middle of the country. The only sizable station they have in the middle of the country is DAL...

Also, what would the Departement say about such a merger? They would have to give up some assets, presumably

I think DOJ would have little to say about an AS/B6 tie-up; they really only directly compete on a handful of routes. Asset divestiture, if any, would be limited to a few slots at JFK and possibly beyond-perimeter slots at DCA, but that should be it.

I do think HA has a role to play here, and that's throwing their A321NEOs plus the existing AS 737-900ERs into their West Coast to Hawaii routes while redeploying the A330s into international service from across the combined network.

This is also the one instance where I think all three brands should survive and co-exist under the holding company, presumably Alaska Air Group.

airportugal310 wrote:

NWADTWE16 wrote:

ill say this though, B6 needs to get their Customer Service (front facing at hub airports especially) in order. I have flown them very regularly throughout their system and starting with SJU a couple of years back and now really throughout their system, the agents are truly bad. Customers are ignored while they conversate with each other, and attitude up to and including challenging the customer to a fight has been witnessed more than once.
Ive written the carrier as to what ive experienced and even worse what ive seen and no response. Its truly sad because I love them, the flight crews are great, when the old A320 interiors are replaced (which cant happen fast enough) they come 2nd for me to Delta, but man, its embarrassing out there and that behavior is due to bad/lack of management.

For Alaska: Its well known I am off a rail at this carrier for being allowed to gobble up and destroy VX, so whatever with them, they have a long way to go and likely wont stay Alaska for too much longer.

For Hawaiian: They are Hawaii, that's it, I flew them for the first time this year in Premium Econ on an A330 and expecting a truly amazing experience. It was very amateur and HNL is a disaster for passengers, never again with them.

B6 can be the top dog of these three easily for decades if they get their head out of wall street and into their actual business again

You come off as someone extremely hard to please...yeesh

What this person doesn't realize is that the US domestic airline industry is not going to get better when it comes to service. He can certainly fly another airline with much less frills. A LOT of people find the AS/VX merger disappointing. But be glad that AS (with better customer service) is integrating with VX and not the likes of AA, UA or DL. Other than IFE, I really don't see a whole lot of tangible benefits between VX and AS. So all you VX lovers, get over it. It's happening. If you don't like it, then try the other, less accommodating airlines. All your bitching won't matter, just $$$$.

This will happen in a few years. The new airline needs to focus on the "cool" JetBlue angle and not the creepy eskimo.

Hawaiian would just be killing off a cornered and faltering dino. They would have zero feed if Jetblue and (who else do they codeshare with?) cut them off. The flights from JetBlues new west coast hubs to Hawaii would be more profitable with Hawaiian put down.

wedgetail737 wrote:

Not going to happen anytime soon. None of the three airlines can afford each other at this time.

Apparently you've never heard of a cashless merger. This is exactly how NW/DL, UA/CO, and AA/US all got together. If the entities all want to make it happen, they certainly can and will.

I think the DOJ would have an issue with any AS + HA merger. There are several overlapping routes and more coming with the continuing deliveries of HA's A321NEOs.

Moreover, I think there would be significant backlash over any attempt to destroy the HA name. Like it or now, Hawaiian Airlines is the transportation backbone of this state.

And Alaska Air Group isn't interested in running multiple brands (i.e. decision to retire the VX brand to avoid brand confusion and the economic infeasibility of pulling this off).

A B6 + AS tie-up? Maybe...but I think we'd need to see how the dust settles on the VX merger.

ADrum23 wrote:

An AS and B6 merger would be nice eventually, but AS needs to finish with the VX merger first and both need to build up their presence in the central part of the country.

AS doesn't need a merger in the future, B6 probably does. These two aren't going to get married. The only likely merger I see in the next few years might be NK + F9. B6 should have started to talking to VX long before AS did.. They may be the odd man out in this current airline environment.

michman wrote:

wedgetail737 wrote:

Not going to happen anytime soon. None of the three airlines can afford each other at this time.

Apparently you've never heard of a cashless merger. This is exactly how NW/DL, UA/CO, and AA/US all got together. If the entities all want to make it happen, they certainly can and will.

Then it's a matter if these airlines truly want to merge. There is always the hostile takeovers. Are the mergers you mentioned really cashless. I hope you don't intend to mean that they didn't have any significant cost to the host party. In addition to approvals by stockholders and executive management, the takeover would involve purchasing the majority share of stock, right?

CobaltScar wrote:

This will happen in a few years. The new airline needs to focus on the "cool" JetBlue angle and not the creepy eskimo.

Hawaiian would just be killing off a cornered and faltering dino. They would have zero feed if Jetblue and (who else do they codeshare with?) cut them off. The flights from JetBlues new west coast hubs to Hawaii would be more profitable with Hawaiian put down.

Not necessarily true. HA has existed a very long time without any mainland cooperation. Do you really think B6 has the financial means of buying any one right now? B6 doesn't even have airplanes with the required ETOPS authority to serve Hawaii. Even if B6 were to acquire HA, the FAA would still require B6 to train and test for ETOPS.

scoping2008 wrote:

I think the DOJ would have an issue with any AS + HA merger. There are several overlapping routes and more coming with the continuing deliveries of HA's A321NEOs.

Moreover, I think there would be significant backlash over any attempt to destroy the HA name. Like it or now, Hawaiian Airlines is the transportation backbone of this state.

And Alaska Air Group isn't interested in running multiple brands (i.e. decision to retire the VX brand to avoid brand confusion and the economic infeasibility of pulling this off).

A B6 + AS tie-up? Maybe...but I think we'd need to see how the dust settles on the VX merger.

I agree the DOJ would have a major problem putting these three airlines together. The primary reason for purchasing VX are rights to additional resources at both SEA and LAX; and to prevent or slow down the likes of B6 and NK from developing a significant West Coast presence. DL is already giving AS a run for its money along the west coast.

airportlover wrote:

Would a merger between Hawaiian, Alaska, and JetBlue work well?

None of them are low-cost carriers, but none of them are legacy airlines. They are all considered boutique airlines with certain regional strengths and many network weaknesses. Joining the three airlines together would create a decent US (including Hawaii and Alaska, obviously) and Caribbean/South American network.

JetBlue has very strong brand loyalty in New York and Boston. People love JetBlue and will fly them whenever it is possible! Terminal 5 at JFK is excellent, even though it has to deal with NYC ATC delays. Its Florida and Caribbean network is excellent from both BOS and JFK, not to mention LGA and EWR. SJU is unique among US carriers, but it may not be as important in the near future due to the hurricane. FLL is another large operation, and B6 could build it up to rival MIA in terms of destinations. Or they could do the same with SJU, but I see FLL as more likely. Feed from Alaska's PNW network would really help this. The operation at Long Beach is also strong, albeit smaller. I see Long Beach being reduced to a small focus city or spoke in a merger scenario.

Hawaiian offers a great network within Hawaii, and it consistently rates well on customer service rankings, along with AS and B6. Hawaiian serves most major US cities, but they do have limited East Coast frequencies. However, Hawaii only seems to be becoming more popular among travelers, and there are well-heeled leisure travelers willing to pay for business class. Hawaiian has a large Asian and Australian/New Zealand network. This offers enticing connection opportunities from the ENTIRE US due to HNL's geographic location.

Alaska is very strong on the West Coast, with large operations in SFO, LAX, SAN, PDX, and SEA. This is unmatched among US carriers. No other airline offers the breadth of service from every major West Coast city. I only see this as an advantage in the current AS. With a merger, a few cities would have to be reduced and connections pushed through SEA and maybe SAN or SFO. PDX is probably too small, and LAX has no room. The Virgin America routes have brought in new customers to the brand, and it has helped AS with transcontinental service. Alaska is also a huge strength for the brand, and nobody can compete with them there. AS and B6 do have one gaping hole, though: the Midwest. I do not envision this changing, even with a merger. It is going to be tough for these airlines to crack those markets, and their customers may not really demand it. As long as the major markets are covered, a merged airline does not really need to worry about small cities between the coasts too much. They need to focus their energy on NYC, BOS, SEA, FLL, SJU, HNL, and one California city (whichever they choose to).

So, what do you guys think?

Hawaiian/Alaska merger would require dropping to many duplicated routes to et past the government watchdogs. Hawaiian/jetBlue on the other hand could easily fly. No overlap.

CantbeGrounded wrote:

rj777 wrote:

1)AS hasn't finished merging with Virgin America yet
2)Hawaiian is too much of an icon to disappear
3)JetBlue.......same as Hawaiian

HA and B6 more iconic than....Northwest? TWA? PSA....AIR JAMAICA (ok yes to that one) but still. Not sure anyone has passed up a good deal because the target was too iconic (the parceling of Pan Am).
AA and US got together before HP finished erasing themselves in the merger with US (or something). Close enough to the same thing?

Actually HP Purchased US and kept HP management & the US name because it was bigger. Then they purchased AA and merged them also keeping HP management & changing to the larger known AA name.

Cointrin330 wrote:

rj777 wrote:

1)AS hasn't finished merging with Virgin America yet
2)Hawaiian is too much of an icon to disappear
3)JetBlue.......same as Hawaiian

Neither HA or B6 are icons and even if they were, just look at PA and TW and where they are now. Either way, a merger between HA/AS/B6 isn't happening. While an AS/B6 merger is a more likely occurrence in the future, after AS has finished integrating VX into its operations, a B6/AS merger would attract considerable Justice Department scrutiny and likely result in some slot divestitures. Neither airline can afford the other and so the issue is moot.

Hawaiian is a niche player and a solid company, but it does not offer a network worthy of a merger. HNL airport isn't designed to be a transit hub for large scale volume and HA's long haul services to Asia, Micronesia, Australia and New Zealand do not necessarily coincide with connections from mainland US flights inbound to HNL.

On Jan 30th Hawaiian has been around for 89 years, has never had a death related to any accident & has never lost a airframe in those 89 years. It is also known all over the world. So yes it is an Icon.

rbavfan wrote:

CantbeGrounded wrote:

rj777 wrote:

1)AS hasn't finished merging with Virgin America yet
2)Hawaiian is too much of an icon to disappear
3)JetBlue.......same as Hawaiian

HA and B6 more iconic than....Northwest? TWA? PSA....AIR JAMAICA (ok yes to that one) but still. Not sure anyone has passed up a good deal because the target was too iconic (the parceling of Pan Am).
AA and US got together before HP finished erasing themselves in the merger with US (or something). Close enough to the same thing?

Actually HP Purchased US and kept HP management & the US name because it was bigger. Then they purchased AA and merged them also keeping HP management & changing to the larger known AA name.

Factually untrue; AA and US agreed to a merger, US did not acquire them. AMR was the surviving company, as was the AA certificate.

I would work were any of the 3 carriers willing to subordinate themselves for the betterment of the Whole Enterprise. They would have the airplanes the route structure and the airport facilities. Now?? Would they have the Gumption to do it? I'd bet not. I worked for United before I retired. They were Still arguing about "who should run the show" rather than taking what was best from each to the betterment of all.. Consequently? A LOT of S-CO management went out the door as the forced a LOT of S-UA managment out the door. So United is now run By EX-American, Ex Northwest, And Ex-Delta Managers. (and frankly? They're Kickin' SOME BUTT!!)

HA pax and RPMs up more than ASMs. Not the sign of a dying dodo airline

https://newsroom.hawaiianairlines.com/r ... horization

EA CO AS wrote:

rbavfan wrote:

CantbeGrounded wrote:

HA and B6 more iconic than....Northwest? TWA? PSA....AIR JAMAICA (ok yes to that one) but still. Not sure anyone has passed up a good deal because the target was too iconic (the parceling of Pan Am).
AA and US got together before HP finished erasing themselves in the merger with US (or something). Close enough to the same thing?

Actually HP Purchased US and kept HP management & the US name because it was bigger. Then they purchased AA and merged them also keeping HP management & changing to the larger known AA name.

Factually untrue; AA and US agreed to a merger, US did not acquire them. AMR was the surviving company, as was the AA certificate.

In February 2013, American Airlines and US Airways announced plans to merge, creating, by some measurements, the largest airline in the world. In the deal, which was expected to close in the third quarter of 2013, stakeholders of AMR would own 72% of the company and US Airways shareholders would own the remaining 28%. The combined airline carries the American Airlines name and branding. The holding company was renamed American Airlines Group Inc.[13] The US Airways' management team, including CEO Doug Parker, retained most operational management positions. In effect, the management of US Airways took over American Airlines, but retaining the American name.[14]

TWA772LR wrote:

rj777 wrote:

1)AS hasn't finished merging with Virgin America yet
2)Hawaiian is too much of an icon to disappear
3)JetBlue.......same as Hawaiian

What if they merge under a holding group while keeping the brands alive but streamline the FF programs? Horizon could be the regional for the combined airline.

Indeed, that's what I imagined. More of an EU holding group-style merger, with back end synergies but distinct public brands. Seems plausible to me. Consolidation doesn't appear to be slowing, globally.

jagraham wrote:

In the deal, which was expected to close in the third quarter of 2013, stakeholders of AMR would own 72% of the company and US Airways shareholders would own the remaining 28%. The combined airline carries the American Airlines name and branding. The holding company was renamed American Airlines Group Inc.[13] The US Airways' management team, including CEO Doug Parker, retained most operational management positions. In effect, the management of US Airways took over American Airlines, but retaining the American name.[14]

Nice try, but the two did agree to merge and create a holding company, American Airlines Group, and that the merged company would be known as American Airlines. AMR's stakeholders owned controlling interest, the surviving operating certificate was American. While AMR leadership agreed that Doug Parker and many from the US team had senior positions, US did not "acquire" AMR/AA.

I think before a B6/AS merger even becomes a possibility, DL will make an attempt to buy one of them with a fair chance of succeeding.

rbavfan wrote:

Cointrin330 wrote:

rj777 wrote:

1)AS hasn't finished merging with Virgin America yet
2)Hawaiian is too much of an icon to disappear
3)JetBlue.......same as Hawaiian

Neither HA or B6 are icons and even if they were, just look at PA and TW and where they are now. Either way, a merger between HA/AS/B6 isn't happening. While an AS/B6 merger is a more likely occurrence in the future, after AS has finished integrating VX into its operations, a B6/AS merger would attract considerable Justice Department scrutiny and likely result in some slot divestitures. Neither airline can afford the other and so the issue is moot.

Hawaiian is a niche player and a solid company, but it does not offer a network worthy of a merger. HNL airport isn't designed to be a transit hub for large scale volume and HA's long haul services to Asia, Micronesia, Australia and New Zealand do not necessarily coincide with connections from mainland US flights inbound to HNL.

On Jan 30th Hawaiian has been around for 89 years, has never had a death related to any accident & has never lost a airframe in those 89 years. It is also known all over the world. So yes it is an Icon.

None of those things factor into the dollars and sense considerations for a merger.

No need for mergers. We need less mergers and more competition. These are three of the most profitable airlines. They all still have areas to expand. Why do they need to merge?

Hawaiian and JetBlue yes but not with Alaska...that would be horrible. Alaska has way too many Boeing people on its Board

What is the American obsession with mergers? Why do any of these airlines need to merge with each other to be successful? They each have their own unique markets and seem to be doing well in them. They don't need to become one airline to expand or even cooperate.

AAvgeek744 wrote:

ADrum23 wrote:

An AS and B6 merger would be nice eventually, but AS needs to finish with the VX merger first and both need to build up their presence in the central part of the country.

AS doesn't need a merger in the future, B6 probably does. These two aren't going to get married. The only likely merger I see in the next few years might be NK + F9. B6 should have started to talking to VX long before AS did.. They may be the odd man out in this current airline environment.

Why would B6 need a merger but AS not? They basically mirror each other in size and scope on their respective coasts, except B6's coast has far more population plus is in range of the islands of the Caribbean and western Europe with narrow bodies, while Alaska is stuck with Hawaii and I suppose overlap with B6 in Mexico and central America.

Seems to me its AS with less options and less customer base.

rj777 wrote:

1)AS hasn't finished merging with Virgin America yet
2)Hawaiian is too much of an icon to disappear
3)JetBlue.......same as Hawaiian

AS/B6 is an inevitable merger that I hope never happens.

Jerry123 wrote:

What is the American obsession with mergers? Why do any of these airlines need to merge with each other to be successful? They each have their own unique markets and seem to be doing well in them. They don't need to become one airline to expand or even cooperate.

Thank you.

And I will keep saying this too, the same capacity restraint that has led to higher yields and profits could had been exercised when the Big 3 were the Big 6. 6 majors? I know, I know, how boring and noncompetitive that would be.

airportlover wrote:

Would a merger between Hawaiian, Alaska, and JetBlue work well?

None of them are low-cost carriers, but none of them are legacy airlines.

Both AS and HA are legacy carriers.

enilria wrote:

rj777 wrote:

1)AS hasn't finished merging with Virgin America yet
2)Hawaiian is too much of an icon to disappear
3)JetBlue.......same as Hawaiian

AS/B6 is an inevitable merger that I hope never happens.

I don't think it's envitable, but I agree. And I hope that merger never happens. However, I see B6 merging with NK more than AS. But that's just my opinion.