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MartyMcFlyYYC
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WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:48 am

Sunwing 737 caught on fire, WestJet 737 used slides to evacuate, per Tom Podolec on Twitter. No injuries reported. Looks like WestJet wing and Sunwing tail.

Image

Image

Image
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:51 am

Looks like the Sunwing APU caught fire.
 
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Acey
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:59 am

Interesting that Sunwing didn't pop slides when it was them that caught fire.

Edit: Seeing on Twitter that Sunwing may have been empty, likely repositioning.
Last edited by Acey on Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ACDC8
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:01 am

CBC is reporting that they collided on the runway lol

Surprising that the CBC is actually reporting this, seeing that this didn’t involve AC - but I’m sure that they’ll find a way to blame AC lol
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Canuck600
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:29 am

Are those actually flames? It looks more like distorted reflection/glare from the emergency lights on the vehicles?
 
ACDC8
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:32 am

Canuck600 wrote:
Are those actually flames? It looks more like distorted reflection/glare from the emergency lights on the vehicles?

Second picture? Those are lights but you can see smoke damage on the APU.
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Acey
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:33 am

Nobody said there's flames in any of those pictures. Fire was at the Sunwing APU and looks already extinguished.
If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
MartyMcFlyYYC
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:33 am

Canuck600 wrote:
Are those actually flames? It looks more like distorted reflection/glare from the emergency lights on the vehicles?


This pic shows the fire damage a little clearer I think

Image
 
Boeing744
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:39 am

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/p ... -1.4475958

This CBC article has a pretty wild video from inside the WestJet cabin.
 
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Acey
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:41 am

Sunwing confirmed to CTV their plane was empty.
If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
ryan78
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:47 am

That CBC article says the Westjet aircraft was stationary waiting for a gate and the Sunwing a/c was being pushed back out of its gate. If that is true, that's a serious lack of wing walking skills on Swissport's behalf, which honestly really doesn't surprise me at all... Swissport has been an absolute joke in YYZ all winter.
 
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Acey
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:03 am

ryan78 wrote:
That CBC article says the Westjet aircraft was stationary waiting for a gate and the Sunwing a/c was being pushed back out of its gate. If that is true, that's a serious lack of wing walking skills on Swissport's behalf, which honestly really doesn't surprise me at all... Swissport has been an absolute joke in YYZ all winter.

Wouldn't be surprised if there was only one or no wing walkers. Not uncommon for tows.
If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
hi_flyer
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:31 am

It is brutally cold in Toronto today. We hit a record low of -23 C, -40 C with the wind chill.

I do not envy those Westjet passengers having to slide into the cold after having just landed from CUN.
 
sixtyseven
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:35 am

Wild video. Was wondering why that APU was burning for so long then read it was a tow. I guess they could have utilized the APU fire system in the nose gear but it might take a distracted tug operator to notice that after smashing into another airplane. Cold night for an evacuation.

There I’ll be a lot of idiots wearing shorts and flip flops in that cold and likely will start a class action for catching colds on the 50 yard walk to the terminal.
Last edited by sixtyseven on Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Super80Fan
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:39 am

Boeing744 wrote:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/planes-collide-pearson-1.4475958

This CBC article has a pretty wild video from inside the WestJet cabin.


I can't even tell, what were they shouting?
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ikolkyo
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:40 am

Super80Fan wrote:
Boeing744 wrote:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/planes-collide-pearson-1.4475958

This CBC article has a pretty wild video from inside the WestJet cabin.


I can't even tell, what were they shouting?


Evacuate, Evacuate, Evacuate
 
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neomax
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:40 am

hi_flyer wrote:
It is brutally cold in Toronto today. We hit a record low of -23 C, -40 C with the wind chill.

I do not envy those Westjet passengers having to slide into the cold after having just landed from CUN.


Ouch! :rotfl: I know what it feels like as a Floridian who was just in Toronto last week!
 
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Acey
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:43 am

Super80Fan wrote:
Boeing744 wrote:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/planes-collide-pearson-1.4475958

This CBC article has a pretty wild video from inside the WestJet cabin.


I can't even tell, what were they shouting?


I heard "it's not our plane on fire, don't worry about it" a couple times. :lol: :lol:
If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
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767333ER
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:04 am

hi_flyer wrote:
It is brutally cold in Toronto today. We hit a record low of -23 C, -40 C with the wind chill.

I do not envy those Westjet passengers having to slide into the cold after having just landed from CUN.

Especially those that had to slide down the freezing cold metal flaps! Yikes!
Been on: 732 733 734 73G 738 752 763 A319 A320 A321 CRJ CR7 CRA/CR9 E145 E175 E190 F28 MD-82 MD-83 C172R C172S P2006T PA-28-180

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yeelep
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:17 am

sixtyseven wrote:
Wild video. Was wondering why that APU was burning for so long then read it was a tow. I guess they could have utilized the APU fire system in the nose gear but it might take a distracted tug operator to notice that after smashing into another airplane.


The APU ground panel is in the r/h main gear wheel well. The fire was in the tailcone compartment which is separate from the APU compartment. Triggering the extinguisher would have little to no effect on the fire as the extinguisher nozzle is confined to the APU compartment only. There is a fire/overheat loop in the tailcone/tailpipe area, when it detects an overheat condition (275°F) the alarm goes off and the APU automatically shuts down. All the tug driver or brake rider could do is wait for the fire department.
 
jamesontheroad
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:18 am

hi_flyer wrote:
It is brutally cold in Toronto today. We hit a record low of -23 C, -40 C with the wind chill.

I do not envy those Westjet passengers having to slide into the cold after having just landed from CUN.


A passenger was quoted on the CBC News article:

But as the crowd moved toward the door, some passengers blocked his family's escape. "I was yelling at people reaching overhead to get their bags. It was ridiculous."


This is an all too common occurrence during evacuations, but if they're in shorts and shirt sleeves, passengers might be minded to at least grab coats.
 
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longhauler
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:10 am

hi_flyer wrote:
It is brutally cold in Toronto today. We hit a record low of -23 C, -40 C with the wind chill.
I do not envy those Westjet passengers having to slide into the cold after having just landed from CUN.

I actually include that consideration in my "ground emergency leading to evacuation" briefing we do before every flight. As passengers are often wearing shorts and flip flops when flying to/from southern destinations.

At -23, it would not take long for the airframe fire to be the least of your worries. I usually suggest that the First Officer also request buses for the passengers when advising ATC we are evacuating.
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:36 am

longhauler wrote:
hi_flyer wrote:
It is brutally cold in Toronto today. We hit a record low of -23 C, -40 C with the wind chill.
I do not envy those Westjet passengers having to slide into the cold after having just landed from CUN.

I actually include that consideration in my "ground emergency leading to evacuation" briefing we do before every flight. As passengers are often wearing shorts and flip flops when flying to/from southern destinations.

At -23, it would not take long for the airframe fire to be the least of your worries. I usually suggest that the First Officer also request buses for the passengers when advising ATC we are evacuating.

I hear you, and I'm sure you have many more years & flights than myself, but as a mere passenger, I travelled in similar circumstances for a number of years, and I always took a change of clothing with me. Depending on circumstance, I might change at the hotel, or at the airport whilst waiting for the flight, or on board the aircraft itself during the flight.

The hotel will have air-con, so an extra layer of clothing need not be a burden.
The taxi to the airport will have air-con.
The aircraft... not only has air-con, but spends a lot of it's time flying in some very cold upper atmosphere.
The jet bridges at my (cold) destination are rarely 100% draught-proof. And at some smaller airports (not Toronto Pearson) old-fashioned steps & buses are still used. :cold:
The terminal buildings at my (cold) destination are often large draughty buildings, and heating them up to summer temperatures is impractical and would contribute massively towards global warming, not to mention the expense.

I accept that there is rarely enough space for a full strip-down-naked change of clothing on board most aircraft, which is why I plan each stage.
If I am changing from shorts to full-length trousers, that needs to happen in the spacious toilet facilities of a terminal building, in the final few minutes before boarding.
On board an aircraft I can easily change footwear & socks. I can also avoid offending neighbouring passengers by not removing my short sleeved shirt, and instead simply adding an additional layer (a sweatshirt) over the top. Add a lightweight jacket shortly before arrival at Toronto, and I am at least equipped to resist a certain amount of winter weather.

It's hardly rocket science, and just requires the tiniest bit of thinking ahead. Of course if there genuinely are people out there who arrive at Toronto in mid-winter still in shorts & flip-flops, then I refer you to Darwin's theory.

Notwithstanding the above, I don't doubt that de-planing in a hurry, particularly using evacuation slides, was a most unpleasant experience for all.
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VSMUT
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:49 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
It's hardly rocket science, and just requires the tiniest bit of thinking ahead. Of course if there genuinely are people out there who arrive at Toronto in mid-winter still in shorts & flip-flops, then I refer you to Darwin's theory.


I see tons of people doing it all over Scandinavia and Germany every winter. First thing after arriving at the terminal is to change into shorts and flip-flops, then deposit the [heavy] winter clothes somewhere in the airport or with the family member who drove them to the airport. These people aren't even prepared to walk to the aircraft if the jetbridge isn't connected, and I shudder to think what it will be like if the aircraft has been parked up overnight and the cabin is still cold. Many of these people will then be flying to the Caribbean or Asia, which takes them over exotic places like Russia and Greenland on the way...
 
sixtyseven
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:44 pm

yeelep wrote:
sixtyseven wrote:
Wild video. Was wondering why that APU was burning for so long then read it was a tow. I guess they could have utilized the APU fire system in the nose gear but it might take a distracted tug operator to notice that after smashing into another airplane.


The APU ground panel is in the r/h main gear wheel well. The fire was in the tailcone compartment which is separate from the APU compartment. Triggering the extinguisher would have little to no effect on the fire as the extinguisher nozzle is confined to the APU compartment only. There is a fire/overheat loop in the tailcone/tailpipe area, when it detects an overheat condition (275°F) the alarm goes off and the APU automatically shuts down. All the tug driver or brake rider could do is wait for the fire department.


Not familiar with the 737 was assuming it would have been located where most are.

Is the APU fire system a two button affair? One for shutting down the APU and arming the bottle? The next for discharging the agent? Certainly you’d do both and the former would at least close the fuel valve. If that’s the case I’m wondering if this fire burnt itself out or did ARFF actually have to hit it with water/foam.
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dr1980
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:18 pm

I admit I never used to think about what would happen if my flight to/from the Caribbean had to evacuate in cold climate, but that changed after the Air Canada A320 crash at YHZ (my home airport)...I always dress for the colder weather now and change at the airport in the warmer climate. Pants with zip off legs are great. Luckily it doesn’t hit dangerously cold temps in YHZ as often as most parts of Canada...
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edmountain
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:32 pm

What is everyone's considered opinion regarding the WestJet cabin crew's handling of the evacuation? Based on the (limited) information available from those short videos as well as the quotes in the articles it seems like a fair amount of chaos with an ineffectual effort from the cabin crew to take control of the situation.
 
WNCrew
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:42 pm

edmountain wrote:
What is everyone's considered opinion regarding the WestJet cabin crew's handling of the evacuation? Based on the (limited) information available from those short videos as well as the quotes in the articles it seems like a fair amount of chaos with an ineffectual effort from the cabin crew to take control of the situation.


I wasn't there so I'm judging on VERY limited information.... VERY....having said that:

I can see that the WJ A/C wasn't even on fire and the PAX were in a state of panic. I can also see that on A/C left the over-wing exits were opened (seemingly by pax). Many carriers teach that if an EVAC is initiated my pax you continue the EVAC. I'm wondering several things. Perhaps the EVAC was initiated by panicked pax and thus the cabin crew (who I can tell were communicating because I can hear multiple interphone chimes) simple decided to continue with the EVAC. Or perhaps after consulting the Flight Deck and sharing the state of the panic, they elected to then EVAC because pax were not responding to commands to remain seated... or perhaps ground staff/ARFF had given some sort of command to the FD crew that an EVAC may be recommended.

I like to *think* my commands to "REMAIN SEATED" would be much more forceful than what I seem to hear, but I also realize that the additive conditions in this scenario are high and there's a lot going on. FAs may not have been certain that their own A/C wasn't on fire as it's difficult to see through the L2 window and the view you do have is fairly limited. Considering all of that, they got everyone off safely... I say, job well done.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
sixtyseven
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:48 pm

edmountain wrote:
What is everyone's considered opinion regarding the WestJet cabin crew's handling of the evacuation? Based on the (limited) information available from those short videos as well as the quotes in the articles it seems like a fair amount of chaos with an ineffectual effort from the cabin crew to take control of the situation.


You can only do so much. They likely wouldn’t have had a clue as to what was going on. All the windows would have been blocked by eager passengers.

Happened quickly, escalated even quicker. The important thing is how they handled the actual evacuation. Even still not much you can do if some bonehead ten rows away from you wants to get his bag out of the overhead. For me, I’d stampede them. Go full Costanza. Get out means get out.
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edmountain
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:57 pm

sixtyseven wrote:
edmountain wrote:
What is everyone's considered opinion regarding the WestJet cabin crew's handling of the evacuation? Based on the (limited) information available from those short videos as well as the quotes in the articles it seems like a fair amount of chaos with an ineffectual effort from the cabin crew to take control of the situation.


You can only do so much. They likely wouldn’t have had a clue as to what was going on. All the windows would have been blocked by eager passengers.

Happened quickly, escalated even quicker. The important thing is how they handled the actual evacuation. Even still not much you can do if some bonehead ten rows away from you wants to get his bag out of the overhead. For me, I’d stampede them. Go full Costanza. Get out means get out.

The comments of the Instagram video from people on the plane indicate that the cabin crew didn't actually handle the evacuation. Or at least not very decisively.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BdlmXHTnePV ... en_belford

[email protected] I was on it too, the flight attendants didn’t do much either. There was a wonderful firefighter right behind us who took control immediately and my husband who’s a former flight attendant who got involved also. The flight attendants on board seemed frozen, and we never heard any direction from any employees being broadcast. Definitely some refresher training needed
 
edmountain
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:14 pm

WNCrew wrote:
edmountain wrote:
What is everyone's considered opinion regarding the WestJet cabin crew's handling of the evacuation? Based on the (limited) information available from those short videos as well as the quotes in the articles it seems like a fair amount of chaos with an ineffectual effort from the cabin crew to take control of the situation.


I wasn't there so I'm judging on VERY limited information.... VERY....having said that:

I can see that the WJ A/C wasn't even on fire and the PAX were in a state of panic. I can also see that on A/C left the over-wing exits were opened (seemingly by pax). Many carriers teach that if an EVAC is initiated my pax you continue the EVAC. I'm wondering several things. Perhaps the EVAC was initiated by panicked pax and thus the cabin crew (who I can tell were communicating because I can hear multiple interphone chimes) simple decided to continue with the EVAC. Or perhaps after consulting the Flight Deck and sharing the state of the panic, they elected to then EVAC because pax were not responding to commands to remain seated... or perhaps ground staff/ARFF had given some sort of command to the FD crew that an EVAC may be recommended.

I like to *think* my commands to "REMAIN SEATED" would be much more forceful than what I seem to hear, but I also realize that the additive conditions in this scenario are high and there's a lot going on. FAs may not have been certain that their own A/C wasn't on fire as it's difficult to see through the L2 window and the view you do have is fairly limited. Considering all of that, they got everyone off safely... I say, job well done.


You make some interesting points, but considering that the WestJet plane didn't actually burn the metric of getting everyone off safely might not be relevant: they could have completely botched the job and everyone would still be safe.
 
WNCrew
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:31 pm

edmountain wrote:

You make some interesting points, but considering that the WestJet plane didn't actually burn the metric of getting everyone off safely might not be relevant: they could have completely botched the job and everyone would still be safe.


I don't disagree with that, I think where I can't be sure is:

-Were they certain / able to ascertain IF their A/C was or was not on fire.
-Did the fire pose a danger TO their A/C
-Were they relying on Pax reaction and letting that alone tell them the A/C was on fire
-What, if anything, was communicated to them over the interphone (that you can hear was being utilized)

Some of those comments are from PAX who may have had more information than the CREW and that will always be the case. Someone will ALWAYS have more information than someone else and in hindsight this will always make someone else look "ill informed" but as the old adage says "hindsight is always 20/20". Especially the PAX who was an former FA... while a great Able-Bodied Assistant, this person is still not privy to whatever was being shared between the working Crew so the chain of communication is always lacking a piece or pieces of information. Decisions were made for a reason. Maybe not ones that everyone will agree on, but reasons nonetheless.

It's so easy to judge after the fact. I'm sure they will learn a lot either way, as we always do after things like this.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:03 pm

But as the crowd moved toward the door, some passengers blocked his family's escape. "I was yelling at people reaching overhead to get their bags. It was ridiculous."


This is an all too common occurrence during evacuations, but if they're in shorts and shirt sleeves, passengers might be minded to at least grab coats.[/quote]

I have less sympathy for any passenger that came back to Toronto not wearing proper clothes for the weather! They would (or should) have known to at least wear pants.

Also, I believe it should be law that any passenger going for anything in an overhead compartment, or taking items off of the plane (and that it can be proven)... should be at the least fined for obstructing an evacuation. Wallet (or some ID carrier), Phone, and Passport on body at all times, F*** the rest. I also get irate at selfie filming during evac, which can also hold up other pax trying to get off the plane!!
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StarAC17
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:13 pm

longhauler wrote:
hi_flyer wrote:
It is brutally cold in Toronto today. We hit a record low of -23 C, -40 C with the wind chill.
I do not envy those Westjet passengers having to slide into the cold after having just landed from CUN.

I actually include that consideration in my "ground emergency leading to evacuation" briefing we do before every flight. As passengers are often wearing shorts and flip flops when flying to/from southern destinations.

At -23, it would not take long for the airframe fire to be the least of your worries. I usually suggest that the First Officer also request buses for the passengers when advising ATC we are evacuating.


I see those people that are flying to Sun destinations and I don't get why they would consider wearing shorts and flip flops on a plane as it is completely unsafe. No sun destination is hot enough to not be able to survive in jeans until you get to your destination.

When I fly I wear Jeans or sometimes track-pants (for long haul flights especially overnight ones) and have a t-shirt, sweater and running shoes. The one bad thing I do is occasionally I will take my shoes off in cruise which I know is a bad ides.

If a real evacuation if you are in flipflops you could present a threat to your safety and others in an emergency.
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SamYeager2016
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:32 pm

The one bad thing I do is occasionally I will take my shoes off in cruise which I know is a bad ides.


I don't see "in cruise" as an issue. Take-off and landing is when you should have shoes on in case of emergency evacuation.
 
A320FlyGuy
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:32 pm

The WestJet reply to the emergency doesn't really surprise me...If their damn cabin crew spent less time on their stand-up comedy routine and more on the responsible aspects of the job, perhaps you wouldn't have had such chaos. Say what you want about Air Canada, but I've never questioned the competency of the cabin crew. Every time I have been forced to fly WestJet (or WorstJet as I prefer), I feel like it's amateur hour...and yet they always wind up getting their tail kissed.
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Topguncanada
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:31 pm

A320FlyGuy wrote:
The WestJet reply to the emergency doesn't really surprise me...If their damn cabin crew spent less time on their stand-up comedy routine and more on the responsible aspects of the job, perhaps you wouldn't have had such chaos. Say what you want about Air Canada, but I've never questioned the competency of the cabin crew. Every time I have been forced to fly WestJet (or WorstJet as I prefer), I feel like it's amateur hour...and yet they always wind up getting their tail kissed.


I hear what your saying. I will preface my comments that I am not the biggest WestJet fan ...however having recently flown on them for the first time in many years I do want to stick up for them a bit. I think as an airline overall they have matured a bit. Based on my recent experience I don’t think it’s as “amateaur” as it used to be. The crew on my flight was courteous yet professional...no jokes. I thought they did a good job...on par with Air Canada or other compareables.
 
ACDC8
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:34 pm

Curious question about the evacuation. If there was a fire on the right side of the aircraft, why would they be evacuating on that side?
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YYZSpotter1991
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:50 pm

Huh.... I had flown on C-FPRP just 4 months ago round trip from YYZ-CUN. It doesn't look like it will be a writeoff after that collision, but repairs will take some time.
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A320FlyGuy
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:25 pm

Topguncanada wrote:
A320FlyGuy wrote:
The WestJet reply to the emergency doesn't really surprise me...If their damn cabin crew spent less time on their stand-up comedy routine and more on the responsible aspects of the job, perhaps you wouldn't have had such chaos. Say what you want about Air Canada, but I've never questioned the competency of the cabin crew. Every time I have been forced to fly WestJet (or WorstJet as I prefer), I feel like it's amateur hour...and yet they always wind up getting their tail kissed.


I hear what your saying. I will preface my comments that I am not the biggest WestJet fan ...however having recently flown on them for the first time in many years I do want to stick up for them a bit. I think as an airline overall they have matured a bit. Based on my recent experience I don’t think it’s as “amateaur” as it used to be. The crew on my flight was courteous yet professional...no jokes. I thought they did a good job...on par with Air Canada or other compareables.


I am sure that there are WestJet crews out there that are great and Air Canada crews that suck harder than a vacuum lavatory...but working for a certain European manufacturer, I fly....a lot. More often than not it's on Air Canada and I find that I always have a feeling of confidence with the cabin crew. They may be older (my last flight to England, the median crew member age was 57) but you knew that if something had gone wrong, they would have been in total control. WestJet on the other hand...well, I'll put it this way. They may have matured, but they can't seem to figure out the formula for long-haul flying. Pricewise, Air Canada and WestJet are almost par on flights from YYZ-LHR (LGW in WestJet's case). Air Canada gives you a full meal and snack, drink service and generally gives you full service in economy. WestJet flies into a less convenient airport, they don't offer any decent onboard service unless you want to be nickel and dimed all the way across the Atlantic and they cannot seem to get the 767 fleet up to an acceptable level of reliability. So, all in all, for me, I'll stick with Air Canada. They aren't perfect, but when it comes right down to it, I never would have a moment's hesitation about putting my family on an Air Canada flight. WestJet on the other hand....well, let's just say that video doesn't really inspire confidence in their cabin crew competency.

Your job is to get the passengers off the plane quickly and with as little drama as possible. They seemed paralyzed by fear, confusion and a lack of a clear leader to initiate the evacuation. It really just makes you wonder.
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Acey
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:26 pm

StarAC17 wrote:
I see those people that are flying to Sun destinations and I don't get why they would consider wearing shorts and flip flops on a plane as it is completely unsafe. No sun destination is hot enough to not be able to survive in jeans until you get to your destination.


I see it all the time here in YYC too, people coming off PVR and CUN flights in flip flops and shorts when it's -25°. Good luck on the tarmac, folks.
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:27 am

Acey wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
I see those people that are flying to Sun destinations and I don't get why they would consider wearing shorts and flip flops on a plane as it is completely unsafe. No sun destination is hot enough to not be able to survive in jeans until you get to your destination.


I see it all the time here in YYC too, people coming off PVR and CUN flights in flip flops and shorts when it's -25°. Good luck on the tarmac, folks.


I've seen people in Alberta going from their trucks to a mall in shorts and t-shirts when it was -10°C. So i don't think they would care when it is 15° colder...
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:33 am

A320FlyGuy wrote:
WestJet flies into a less convenient airport, they don't offer any decent onboard service unless you want to be nickel and dimed all the way across the Atlantic and they cannot seem to get the 767 fleet up to an acceptable level of reliability.


I don't want to send this thread off-topic, but while we're here, did 767 reliability improve in 2017? (IIRC summer 2016 was really problematic).
 
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:55 am

CF-CPI wrote:
A320FlyGuy wrote:
WestJet flies into a less convenient airport, they don't offer any decent onboard service unless you want to be nickel and dimed all the way across the Atlantic and they cannot seem to get the 767 fleet up to an acceptable level of reliability.


I don't want to send this thread off-topic, but while we're here, did 767 reliability improve in 2017? (IIRC summer 2016 was really problematic).


I think that there was a marginal improvement...but they are still 20+ year old airframes with all of the associated issues. However, that being said, it does surprise me that they have had the issues that they have considering that the aircraft are all ex-Qantas.
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sixtyseven
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:56 am

ACDC8 wrote:
Curious question about the evacuation. If there was a fire on the right side of the aircraft, why would they be evacuating on that side?


Evacuation orders no longer include instructions from the flight deck on what side of the aircraft to exit from. Years ago we would specify but it was deemed that it could lead to confusion as to what side doors should be opened. Imagine on an airplane with many exits if told to only go out one side when perhaps half of the doors on the “danger” side could be safely utilized. The onus is on the person opening the door to evaluate the surroundings. If it’s clear enough, go.
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:00 am

A320FlyGuy wrote:
CF-CPI wrote:
A320FlyGuy wrote:
WestJet flies into a less convenient airport, they don't offer any decent onboard service unless you want to be nickel and dimed all the way across the Atlantic and they cannot seem to get the 767 fleet up to an acceptable level of reliability.


I don't want to send this thread off-topic, but while we're here, did 767 reliability improve in 2017? (IIRC summer 2016 was really problematic).


I think that there was a marginal improvement...but they are still 20+ year old airframes with all of the associated issues. However, that being said, it does surprise me that they have had the issues that they have considering that the aircraft are all ex-Qantas.


Don’t be surprised. AC looked at these FINS before WJ. They didn’t walk, they ran. They were terrible and AC knew it. They needed a TON of work to get them back into service and AC decided to look elsewhere.
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:34 am

hi_flyer wrote:
It is brutally cold in Toronto today. We hit a record low of -23 C, -40 C with the wind chill.

I do not envy those Westjet passengers having to slide into the cold after having just landed from CUN.


Back in the late 80's, my parents arrived safely back to DFW from HNL at 5:30 in the morning. They were not dressed for the arctic blast that had arrived in Dallas. The FA had mercy on them, with no winter coats, with the temperature at 12 degrees out side, and let them take the AA blankets with them, for their walk to their car...

The news reported one passenger only had flip flops on...his feet.
:roll:
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:59 am

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
longhauler wrote:
hi_flyer wrote:
It is brutally cold in Toronto today. We hit a record low of -23 C, -40 C with the wind chill.
I do not envy those Westjet passengers having to slide into the cold after having just landed from CUN.

I actually include that consideration in my "ground emergency leading to evacuation" briefing we do before every flight. As passengers are often wearing shorts and flip flops when flying to/from southern destinations.

At -23, it would not take long for the airframe fire to be the least of your worries. I usually suggest that the First Officer also request buses for the passengers when advising ATC we are evacuating.

I hear you, and I'm sure you have many more years & flights than myself, but as a mere passenger, I travelled in similar circumstances for a number of years, and I always took a change of clothing with me. Depending on circumstance, I might change at the hotel, or at the airport whilst waiting for the flight, or on board the aircraft itself during the flight.

The hotel will have air-con, so an extra layer of clothing need not be a burden.
The taxi to the airport will have air-con.
The aircraft... not only has air-con, but spends a lot of it's time flying in some very cold upper atmosphere.
The jet bridges at my (cold) destination are rarely 100% draught-proof. And at some smaller airports (not Toronto Pearson) old-fashioned steps & buses are still used. :cold:
The terminal buildings at my (cold) destination are often large draughty buildings, and heating them up to summer temperatures is impractical and would contribute massively towards global warming, not to mention the expense.

I accept that there is rarely enough space for a full strip-down-naked change of clothing on board most aircraft, which is why I plan each stage.
If I am changing from shorts to full-length trousers, that needs to happen in the spacious toilet facilities of a terminal building, in the final few minutes before boarding.
On board an aircraft I can easily change footwear & socks. I can also avoid offending neighbouring passengers by not removing my short sleeved shirt, and instead simply adding an additional layer (a sweatshirt) over the top. Add a lightweight jacket shortly before arrival at Toronto, and I am at least equipped to resist a certain amount of winter weather.

It's hardly rocket science, and just requires the tiniest bit of thinking ahead. Of course if there genuinely are people out there who arrive at Toronto in mid-winter still in shorts & flip-flops, then I refer you to Darwin's theory.

Notwithstanding the above, I don't doubt that de-planing in a hurry, particularly using evacuation slides, was a most unpleasant experience for all.


I remember when flying Non-Rev with AA to a tropical destination, I would have to be in slacks to board. But once in the air, I would go to the toilet and change into into a Hawaiian shirt and shorts about 30 minutes before arrival. No FA ever wrote me up for that, or even mentioned it. And certainly most of the paying customers were dressed to fly to a tropical destination.
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing 737's clip wing to tail at Toronto Pearson

Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:14 am

I wonder how many passengers regretted not paying (more) attention to the safety briefing before takeoff...

As to the tug driver operator... if conditions are so cold that your job can't be performed fully, then operations should stop for that activity, or extra personnel should be used to insure safe operations.
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