Heard a credible rumor of WW possibly announcing BDL in the near future.... anyone have any more info than what I was told?


Any possibility of this becoming true? I'm skeptical, it's just a rumor but who knows...

Any other BDL new route rumors out there?

forgive me...tried googling WW airline code, came up with defunct Bmibaby as WW. What is WW?

Arch89U wrote:

forgive me...tried googling WW airline code, came up with defunct Bmibaby as WW. What is WW?

WOW Air.

They could do BDL on the A320NEO, but could it potentially cannibalize EI’s DUB service?

Not far fetched. They know their markets and the response to their service in the Boston, Newark, and soon JFK areas. BDL is right smack dab in the middle.

flymco753 wrote:

They could do BDL on the A320NEO, but could it potentially cannibalize EI’s DUB service?

Why would this be of concern for WW?

There is plenty of demand from Hartford/Springfield/New Haven metro to fill this plane. Aer Lingus is proving to be a success after a slow start. You have almost 3 million people in the I-91 knowledge corridor which prefer the easy access in/out of BDL compared to Boston or NYC. With that being said, I don't believe WOW or KEF is on the airports short term wish list.

I operate the Dash 8 into BDL from YYZ quite a bit. The first time I flew there, I was very surprised to see Aer Lingus there. I didn't think there would be enough demand for direct European flights. American airports do surprise me from time to time

Vio wrote:

I operate the Dash 8 into BDL from YYZ quite a bit. The first time I flew there, I was very surprised to see Aer Lingus there. I didn't think there would be enough demand for direct European flights. American airports do surprise me from time to time

Lacking any kind of financial incentive, I don’t think they’d have come.

I'd say that BDL and PVD are both good markets for WOW air to invest into...

I have trouble believing that just a few years ago BDL couldn’t support AMS on DL, someone who has a strong FF base in BDL, but now they’d be able to support 3 transatlantic carriers. The Connecticut economy is stagnant at best. And with attractive, not to mention cheaper, options just 2 hours to the north and south, I find it hard to believe it would be sustainable.

BDL is my home airport, but I’m in DUB right now and I flew EI from JFK... I know I’m not the only one.

WOW's advantage is most people most likely take them at face value and don't realize what they are getting themselves into until the final bill arrives. The face value fares would be attractive to a state where people are feeling the pinch of slow wage growth and increasing taxes, and other municipal living costs.

Not all markets have a price advantage going out of BOS or JFK instead of BDL. At times, Aer Lingus has brought a nice level playing field for a solid handful of markets out of Hartford. No matter what happens, I hope to see Aer Lingus "win" in the long term.

stlgph wrote:

WOW's advantage is most people most likely take them at face value and don't realize what they are getting themselves into until the final bill arrives. The face value fares would be attractive to a state where people are feeling the pinch of slow wage growth and increasing taxes, and other municipal living costs.

The vast majority do extensive research and price compare shopping, especially for something as significant as a trip abroad so most are quite aware of the deal they're getting when they click the purchase button. On the other hand you'll always have people like that couple who purchased tickets on either WW or FI to Europe and were "shocked" and "outraged" when they got to the airport and learned they'd have to stop in Iceland.

jetblueguy22 wrote:

I have trouble believing that just a few years ago BDL couldn’t support AMS on DL, someone who has a strong FF base in BDL, but now they’d be able to support 3 transatlantic carriers. The Connecticut economy is stagnant at best. And with attractive, not to mention cheaper, options just 2 hours to the north and south, I find it hard to believe it would be sustainable.

BDL is my home airport, but I’m in DUB right now and I flew EI from JFK... I know I’m not the only one.

Did you fly EI from JFK as opposed to BDL because it was cheaper?

stlgph wrote:

Not far fetched. They know their markets and the response to their service in the Boston, Newark, and soon JFK areas. BDL is right smack dab in the middle.

That means they'd be competing with their own flights, to the extent that BDL catchment flyers will travel to NYC or BOS for TATL flights.

It would have to be a LOT more expensive out of BDL to get me (BDL based) to go thru the JFK hassle. Or Boston, but especially NYC airports. I did limos to JFK a lot and it was a painful trip.

GF

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

It would have to be a LOT more expensive out of BDL to get me (BDL based) to go thru the JFK hassle. Or Boston, but especially NYC airports. I did limos to JFK a lot and it was a painful trip.

GF

Could not agree with you more. The drives to and from New York truly jaunts through Hell. I live near BDL and will happily pay a few bucks more to fly locally. Adding in the cost of gas to get to NY, or a trip on the train or limo, makes the prices comparable anyway.

As for BDL supporting transatlantic routes....it’s not just Hartford and the business communities who fly, it’s also people from the surrounding areas...students, visiting friends and family, and tourists too. The NW route a decade ago was launched at a really different time that was not conducive of traffic development.

Other BDL route rumors......there has been talk for years about finally starting nonstop service to Jamaica. I could see it as there is a huge island population living in the city of Hartford. I could also see Seattle being added....Alaska Airlines. One thing I have noticed with the Air Canada Express flights out of BDL as of late is jet equipment sneaking in on the various flights between both Montreal and Toronto. They have always been flown with either Beech 1900 or Dash-8’s. Are they upgrading?

CairnterriAIR wrote:

Other BDL route rumors......there has been talk for years about finally starting nonstop service to Jamaica. I could see it as there is a huge island population living in the city of Hartford. I could also see Seattle being added....Alaska Airlines. One thing I have noticed with the Air Canada Express flights out of BDL as of late is jet equipment sneaking in on the various flights between both Montreal and Toronto. They have always been flown with either Beech 1900 or Dash-8’s. Are they upgrading?

I hope they go all CRJ to YYZ and all Dash 8 to YUL. Those B190's are terrible and they're massive pits of misery for Air Georgian from what I've heard.

Iv also heard MCI, but that is not finalized and won't launch until 2019-21 if it happens. They like to do big expansion rounds in America.

jetblueguy22 wrote:

I have trouble believing that just a few years ago BDL couldn’t support AMS on DL, someone who has a strong FF base in BDL, but now they’d be able to support 3 transatlantic carriers. The Connecticut economy is stagnant at best. And with attractive, not to mention cheaper, options just 2 hours to the north and south, I find it hard to believe it would be sustainable.

BDL is my home airport, but I’m in DUB right now and I flew EI from JFK... I know I’m not the only one.

The NW AMS flight was over 10 years ago and at a time when the economy, airline industry and many other factors led to the flight being canceled. You can not use that to judge today's international air market out of BDL.

2017 saw around 7% growth in passengers at BDL over last year, very respectable. The Norwegian flight did well during the summer, off season not so hot but Aer Lingus consistently posted loads in the high 80's and 90's into the fall. I took the BDL-DUB flight myself which was full in business class and looked packed in economy.

Enjoy driving to JFK or EWR. Newark IMO can be easier to get to at times but you never know with 95 and the Merritt Parkway which both can be a mess. The flight would have to be over $300 more out of BDL for me to consider driving to NYC or BOS. With the Aer Lingus flight, fares have stabilized quite a bit out of BDL not only on Aer Lingus but other carriers.

While the Connecticut economy does indeed suck right now, there is still plenty of disposable income for leisure travel and business travel in the area is still strong.

stlgph wrote:

WOW's advantage is most people most likely take them at face value and don't realize what they are getting themselves into until the final bill arrives. The face value fares would be attractive to a state where people are feeling the pinch of slow wage growth and increasing taxes, and other municipal living costs.

Not all markets have a price advantage going out of BOS or JFK instead of BDL. At times, Aer Lingus has brought a nice level playing field for a solid handful of markets out of Hartford. No matter what happens, I hope to see Aer Lingus "win" in the long term.

Wow's business plan must have hit home with US airlines since some of them are starting to do the same thing on domestic routes.

CairnterriAIR wrote:

One thing I have noticed with the Air Canada Express flights out of BDL as of late is jet equipment sneaking in on the various flights between both Montreal and Toronto. They have always been flown with either Beech 1900 or Dash-8’s. Are they upgrading?

It looks like Air Georgian's on time performance and overall reliability on the routes have been bad since mid-December. I think it is just trying to find an airplane to make the trip.

I'd wager EI pulling out once the subsidies from the CT government run out. And you can bet the government in CT will never make that mistake again!

JBLUA320 wrote:

I'd wager EI pulling out once the subsidies from the CT government run out. And you can bet the government in CT will never make that mistake again!

Do you know anything about the subsidy agreement?

JBLUA320 wrote:

I'd wager EI pulling out once the subsidies from the CT government run out. And you can bet the government in CT will never make that mistake again!

....or the fact that the flight is actually drawing large amounts of customers?

Somethings got to give. Admittedly BDL is my home airport so I have a bias. With NEO's and MAX's starting to come online won't the costs of TATL from some of these regional airports be able to compete with cost of transport, parking and increased hassle (including longer lines at TSA, Baggage etc.) incurred by going to a major hub? Ditto for transcontinental.

jetblueguy22 wrote:

I have trouble believing that just a few years ago BDL couldn’t support AMS on DL, someone who has a strong FF base in BDL, but now they’d be able to support 3 transatlantic carriers. The Connecticut economy is stagnant at best. And with attractive, not to mention cheaper, options just 2 hours to the north and south, I find it hard to believe it would be sustainable.

BDL is my home airport, but I’m in DUB right now and I flew EI from JFK... I know I’m not the only one.

I think you just proved that there is a market for more TATL airlines from BDL.
The reason the fares are high from BDL is because demand is higher than the supply. And if it makes you go all the way to JFK then the fares must be really high.
I have driven to LGA from Boston just to catch a flight to MIA, before. But it was during school vacation and the fares from LGA were $400 cheaper than from BOS and there were 3 of us flying. For that kind of savings it was a no brainer.

CairnterriAIR wrote:

Other BDL route rumors......there has been talk for years about finally starting nonstop service to Jamaica. I could see it as there is a huge island population living in the city of Hartford. I could also see Seattle being added....Alaska Airlines. One thing I have noticed with the Air Canada Express flights out of BDL as of late is jet equipment sneaking in on the various flights between both Montreal and Toronto. They have always been flown with either Beech 1900 or Dash-8’s. Are they upgrading?

If I am not mistaken the rumor regarding nonstop service to Jamaica was Jetblue with once or twice weekly service to Montego Bay from BDL. The timeline was 2018/2019 so maybe we will get an announcement this year (fingers crossed)? Alaska Airlines and nonstop service to SEA was also discussed with a timeline of 2020/2021 but I would be curious to see how the daily LAX service on American and seasonal daily SFO service on UA have been as well the PDEW for BDL - SEA before seeing that happen. Wondering if BDL will also get daily CRJ200 service to YYZ at the very least like PVD.

bdlflyer wrote:

CairnterriAIR wrote:

Other BDL route rumors......there has been talk for years about finally starting nonstop service to Jamaica. I could see it as there is a huge island population living in the city of Hartford. I could also see Seattle being added....Alaska Airlines. One thing I have noticed with the Air Canada Express flights out of BDL as of late is jet equipment sneaking in on the various flights between both Montreal and Toronto. They have always been flown with either Beech 1900 or Dash-8’s. Are they upgrading?

If I am not mistaken the rumor regarding nonstop service to Jamaica was Jetblue with once or twice weekly service to Montego Bay from BDL. The timeline was 2018/2019 so maybe we will get an announcement this year (fingers crossed)? Alaska Airlines and nonstop service to SEA was also discussed with a timeline of 2020/2021 but I would be curious to see how the daily LAX service on American and seasonal daily SFO service on UA have been as well the PDEW for BDL - SEA before seeing that happen. Wondering if BDL will also get daily CRJ200 service to YYZ at the very least like PVD.

The PVD Toronto seasonal service with the jet is interesting....Considering BDL has multiple flights daily year round with turbo prop aircraft. I have been seeing CRJ’s operating on random trips though the last few months. Air Canada has served BDL for years to both Toronto and Montreal so I don’t see why they eventually serve the station with jets....as the turbo props’ days seem numbered.

uconn99 wrote:

JBLUA320 wrote:

I'd wager EI pulling out once the subsidies from the CT government run out. And you can bet the government in CT will never make that mistake again!

Do you know anything about the subsidy agreement?

Yes, it's worth $14M and has shockingly flexible terms, all for the purpose of landing EI and keeping them there for as long as possible. The subsidy will run out, though, and EI will not stay unless another incentive is coughed up.

The loads are good in the peak seasons and predictable times, but the yield is terrible all the way around - Norwegian had the same results in the peak season. There isn't enough around for either airline to also serve multiple NY airports and Boston area airports. BDL on its own cannot sustain it.

I can't share my sources, but suffice it to say that BDL is, in a word, bleeding and you will see reductions when subsidies for both airlines run out.

JBLUA320 wrote:

uconn99 wrote:

JBLUA320 wrote:

I'd wager EI pulling out once the subsidies from the CT government run out. And you can bet the government in CT will never make that mistake again!

Do you know anything about the subsidy agreement?

Yes, it's worth $14M and has shockingly flexible terms, all for the purpose of landing EI and keeping them there for as long as possible. The subsidy will run out, though, and EI will not stay unless another incentive is coughed up.

The loads are good in the peak seasons and predictable times, but the yield is terrible all the way around - Norwegian had the same results in the peak season. There isn't enough around for either airline to also serve multiple NY airports and Boston area airports. BDL on its own cannot sustain it.

I can't share my sources, but suffice it to say that BDL is, in a word, bleeding and you will see reductions when subsidies for both airlines run out.

If you can’t share your sources then one will question credibility here. The fares Aer Lingus has been charging has been similar if not slightly more than what is charged out of New York. As for the subsidy, that is a common practice for just about every airport. How many routes out of JFK are actually subsidized by the governments of the respected carrier serving from that country? Do you think some Far East airline flying once a week to JFK is making money on their own? How do you think other cities get carriers to come in? Ever rent an apartment....and get first month free?

By the way....the Aer Lingus subsidy is 9 million available over two years, should losses occur. 4.5 million each year. Source...a simple Google search.

JBLUA320 wrote:

uconn99 wrote:

JBLUA320 wrote:

I'd wager EI pulling out once the subsidies from the CT government run out. And you can bet the government in CT will never make that mistake again!

Do you know anything about the subsidy agreement?

The loads are good in the peak seasons and predictable times, but the yield is terrible all the way around - Norwegian had the same results in the peak season. There isn't enough around for either airline to also serve multiple NY airports and Boston area airports. BDL on its own cannot sustain it.

.

With all due respect Sir, up in post #11 you stated that you flew to DUB out of New York because it was a cheaper option. The loads are indeed good out of BDL as you just stated here....but if they are charging a higher fare out of BDL, wouldn’t the yields be acceptable in comparison to the cheaper fare in New York???? Help me out here.

CairnterriAIR wrote:

The PVD Toronto seasonal service with the jet is interesting....Considering BDL has multiple flights daily year round with turbo prop aircraft. I have been seeing CRJ’s operating on random trips though the last few months. Air Canada has served BDL for years to both Toronto and Montreal so I don’t see why they eventually serve the station with jets....as the turbo props’ days seem numbered.

I'm not too sure. Air Georgian received hand-me-down CRJs from Jazz, only to assume flying routes that Jazz was flying with CRJs. Meanwhile, the Jazz Dash 8s have started to retire. I don't see replacements in sight, and the jump from 19 to 50 seats would be extreme. BDL-YUL never carried a ton of passengers, even when Pilgrim ran it with F27s. BDL-YYZ did better with the Air Ontario Convairs and Pilgrim F27s, maybe 4-5 roundtrips a day.

BDL-YUL is either full or empty on the B1900. Not terribly reliable either. Having had to make numerous trips,like my boss; we drove most of the time. Cheaper and less painful.

GF

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

BDL-YUL is either full or empty on the B1900. Not terribly reliable either. Having had to make numerous trips,like my boss; we drove most of the time. Cheaper and less painful.

GF

Had to be a great flight in the '70s when it was a Turbine Beech 18.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

BDL-YUL is either full or empty on the B1900. Not terribly reliable either. Having had to make numerous trips,like my boss; we drove most of the time. Cheaper and less painful.

GF

I flew aboard a B1900 once....between MCO and PBI. That is about as far as I recommend flying aboard one of those.