Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
jsteeves3 wrote:Question: why does HA fly HA273 to LIH every single day on a 763? Does it need to get the aircraft there or for capacity reasons?
vfw614 wrote:Why? Can't they swap the aircraft at LAX - or is the capacity needed for the HNL-LIH leg or are HNL one-stop pax needed to fill the airplane?
On another note, enilria’s Sunday OAG report is showing HA with daily service to LGB starting in July.
vfw614 wrote:Why? Can't they swap the aircraft at LAX - or is the capacity needed for the HNL-LIH leg or are HNL one-stop pax needed to fill the airplane?
WPvsMW wrote:Finally. Lieflat in F (A330) begins on 20 Jan. 2018 on HA22 and HA21 (HNL/SEA SEA/HNL).
Xtremespeed01 wrote:The new HNL-LGB HA70 will be starting on May 31st with HA new A321neo leaving around 12:30PM with an arrival at 9PM. The return LGB-HNL flight, HA69 will depart at 8:30AM and arrive at 11:40AM.
Side note, HA PPG service is also being up gauged to A332 by March.
WPvsMW wrote:WN firms up CONUSS/HI plans. Service will start as soon as Dec. 2018.
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/3735 ... s-december
Kelly said "the actual timetable depends on approvals from the Federal Aviation Administration."
WN's expected interisland tags will HA's first real interisland competition since the demise of AQ.
WPvsMW wrote:WN firms up CONUSS/HI plans. Service will start as soon as Dec. 2018.
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/3735 ... s-december
Kelly said "the actual timetable depends on approvals from the Federal Aviation Administration."
WN's expected interisland tags will HA's first real interisland competition since the demise of AQ.
WPvsMW wrote:IIRC, in the 80s, DL used to have an HNL/OGG tag on a CONUS flight.
hawaiian717 wrote:WPvsMW wrote:IIRC, in the 80s, DL used to have an HNL/OGG tag on a CONUS flight.
Not just in the 80s. In maybe 1999 I did LAX-OGG-HNL on a Delta L-1011. Stayed on the plane for the short stay in Maui and even got an invite to visit the cockpit. I think there might have been a flight that did LAX-HNL-OGG as well.
obelau24 wrote:WPvsMW wrote:WN firms up CONUSS/HI plans. Service will start as soon as Dec. 2018.
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/3735 ... s-december
Kelly said "the actual timetable depends on approvals from the Federal Aviation Administration."
WN's expected interisland tags will HA's first real interisland competition since the demise of AQ.
I will gladly eat my shoe if WN decides to do interisland- period. It doesn’t make sense in this day and age. They won’t have the critical mass to cater to locals and visitors already have a plethora of affordable, non stops to every major island. What would be the point?
That aside, I’ve been saying for a while that the state needs to dispense with the interisland terminal idea and build a terminal extension from Gate 6 instead. Gate space is at a premium and will get worse when WN throws 5 or 6 turns into the mix at peak day.
77H wrote:obelau24 wrote:WPvsMW wrote:WN firms up CONUSS/HI plans. Service will start as soon as Dec. 2018.
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/3735 ... s-december
Kelly said "the actual timetable depends on approvals from the Federal Aviation Administration."
WN's expected interisland tags will HA's first real interisland competition since the demise of AQ.
I will gladly eat my shoe if WN decides to do interisland- period. It doesn’t make sense in this day and age. They won’t have the critical mass to cater to locals and visitors already have a plethora of affordable, non stops to every major island. What would be the point?
That aside, I’ve been saying for a while that the state needs to dispense with the interisland terminal idea and build a terminal extension from Gate 6 instead. Gate space is at a premium and will get worse when WN throws 5 or 6 turns into the mix at peak day.
100% agree with your entire post. The only potential issue I see is whether or not the ground east of gate 6 can handle a full terminal extension. I remember reading about a plan to have all the cargo operators based where the north hardstands are today but the ground in that area couldn’t support the weight of the facilities they had planned. Something to do with that area being reclaim swamp land if I recall?
77H
obelau24 wrote:77H wrote:obelau24 wrote:
I will gladly eat my shoe if WN decides to do interisland- period. It doesn’t make sense in this day and age. They won’t have the critical mass to cater to locals and visitors already have a plethora of affordable, non stops to every major island. What would be the point?
That aside, I’ve been saying for a while that the state needs to dispense with the interisland terminal idea and build a terminal extension from Gate 6 instead. Gate space is at a premium and will get worse when WN throws 5 or 6 turns into the mix at peak day.
100% agree with your entire post. The only potential issue I see is whether or not the ground east of gate 6 can handle a full terminal extension. I remember reading about a plan to have all the cargo operators based where the north hardstands are today but the ground in that area couldn’t support the weight of the facilities they had planned. Something to do with that area being reclaim swamp land if I recall?
77H
Interesting - I never heard that. So the idea for the interisland terminal was that it would be one story to limit the weight (for lack of a technical term)? If that’s the case, then build the terminal extension as a single-story and either have jetbridges on the roof or board with airstairs. They would have done that with WP anyway. It’s not like they need space for check-in or baggage claim - all you need is a large open space with seating, gate podiums and moving walkways (I added the last one to make you laugh). They can build an external rampway for the WikiWiki to continue past gate 6 or have the Wiki operate airside like the American Eagle terminal or the Delta terminals at LAX.
Since you brought up cargo, the cargo aprons on the south ramp also need to be increased, especially because it’s only a matter of time until Amazon starts flying here. Try to encourage the flying schools to move to Kalaeloa so the hardstands can be extended WITH fuel pits. That is the problem now because only 4 of the 7(?) south ramp hardstands have fuel pits. Of course the other option is to build up Kalaeloa with state of the art facilities to entice cargo to move there. That would probably require a runway extension as the longest is only 8000ft so I’m probably dreaming that will ever happen. Not to mention you can’t usually have “state of the art” and Hawaii in the same sentence.
MO11 wrote:WPvsMW wrote:WN firms up CONUSS/HI plans. Service will start as soon as Dec. 2018.
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/3735 ... s-december
Kelly said "the actual timetable depends on approvals from the Federal Aviation Administration."
WN's expected interisland tags will HA's first real interisland competition since the demise of AQ.
I'm sorry, I read that article a few times, but I saw nothing about inter-island tags. Not a good business plan.
WPvsMW wrote:From a pax comfort POV, there's no contest. If the pricing is the same, pax comfort will pull the traffic to WN. Wider seats would find a warm reception among my plus-size friends, all of whom complain about the new 712 seats.
So... would WN have a USP vs. HA? Definitely. Will WN do tags? Time will tell.
WPvsMW wrote:Query: Why did DL add the OGG tag on its LAX/HNL TriStar service? Because it was profitable.
The same logic applies to WN: if the "widest Y seats on any US airline" can attract Rapid Rewards members and non-HA elites, and ... a new factor, Asian LCC traffic onward to CONUS ... tags could work.
Can HA's "712 LCC" cabin with non-reclining seats and the hardest "seat cushion" I've sat on match WN's:
Two-inch recline
32-inch pitch
17.8 inch width
Adjustable headrests
Enhanced cushion comfort
Seat pocket on the top of the seat to offer more leg and shin room?
and the infrequent-flyer magnet... first bag is free.
https://thepointsguy.com/2015/04/airlin ... easure-up/
From a pax comfort POV, there's no contest. If the pricing is the same, pax comfort will pull the traffic to WN. Wider seats would find a warm reception among my plus-size friends, all of whom complain about the new 712 seats.
So... would WN have a USP vs. HA? Definitely. Will WN do tags? Time will tell.
As others have said above, WN would not be able to compete on frequency without basing aircraft here
Aptivaboy wrote:Regarding interisland flights, it makes perfect sense for Southwest to go down this route. What they'll likely do (I and others have discussed this possibility before) is use a triangular system much like Delta did back in the '90s, say LAX-HNL-OGG-LAX. Delta did this with Tristars and 767s and was apparently profitable enough to do this routing, and similar ones to the other islands, for a number of years. I remember sitting at the gate in Kahalui and watching this shiny L-1011 taxi up to the gate fresh from HNL; it was such a short hop to pick up more passengers in OGG that the crew didn't time out, as I recall. This could be a great way for Southwest to get a little bit more utilization out of their ETOPs fleet.As others have said above, WN would not be able to compete on frequency without basing aircraft here
By using a triangular system, Southwest could, in effect, artificially station planes in the islands. They'd always have a few birds there making short interisland legs and could use them in the event of major breakdowns and scheduling snafus. Basing ETOPS planes there permanently on short interisland hops makes no sense, but constantly rotating a few through on that short leg might address this problem and generate a little extra revenue. It will be interesting to see what the bean counters at Southwest come up with.
WPvsMW wrote:Agreed re: expansion of HNL gates... which will happen faster if handled by an airport authority rather than Airports Div. of DOTrans.
As far as local segments tagged on WN's CONUS flights, it's not in the article, but the opportunity is there, esp. if HA and WN don't share any ticketing or interline agreements. Historically, WN has never codeshared or interlined, and I don't think that will change.
IIRC, in the 80s, DL used to have an HNL/OGG tag on a CONUS flight. WN will have counters, ground services, and gates at the major Island airports, and a single tag isn't going to cause thermal problems for the engines. The only issue is skeds.... there are certainly Rapid Rewards members, and plenty of non-elites on HA, ready to book interisland segments on WN if the price is right.
usxguy wrote:Southwest doesn't need to permanently base any planes out there. Maybe a line maintenance station. They can cycle planes into the I/I market via any of the 4 cities, and maybe even NOT have to RON aircraft in Hawaii
OAKKOA 700AM 1040AM
KOAHNL 1200N 1248PM
HNLLIH 130PM 215PM
LIHHNL 300PM 345PM
HNLKOA 425PM 513PM
KOAHNL 600PM 648PM
HNLKOA 730PM 818PM
KOAOAK 945PM 553AM
OAKOGG 700AM 1045AM
OGGHNL 1200N 1240PM
HNLKOA 125PM 213PM
KOAHNL 300PM 348PM
HNLOGG 430PM 505PM
OGGHNL 540PM 615PM
HNLLIH 650PM 725PM
LIHHNL 800PM 835PM
HNLOGG 910PM 945PM
OGGOAK 1130PM 620AM
They'll miss out on the morning banks IF they don't overnight in Hawai'i, but as you can see, they can clearly penetrate the market using existing aircraft and NOT killing the cycles.
WPvsMW wrote:Query: Why did DL add the OGG tag on its LAX/HNL TriStar service? Because it was profitable.
Will WN do tags? Time will tell.
hoya wrote:WPvsMW wrote:Agreed re: expansion of HNL gates... which will happen faster if handled by an airport authority rather than Airports Div. of DOTrans.
As far as local segments tagged on WN's CONUS flights, it's not in the article, but the opportunity is there, esp. if HA and WN don't share any ticketing or interline agreements. Historically, WN has never codeshared or interlined, and I don't think that will change.
IIRC, in the 80s, DL used to have an HNL/OGG tag on a CONUS flight. WN will have counters, ground services, and gates at the major Island airports, and a single tag isn't going to cause thermal problems for the engines. The only issue is skeds.... there are certainly Rapid Rewards members, and plenty of non-elites on HA, ready to book interisland segments on WN if the price is right.
Southwest codeshared on ATA to Hawaii and even within the U.S. before ATA went bankrupt. I believe the partnership lasted about two or so years.usxguy wrote:Southwest doesn't need to permanently base any planes out there. Maybe a line maintenance station. They can cycle planes into the I/I market via any of the 4 cities, and maybe even NOT have to RON aircraft in Hawaii
OAKKOA 700AM 1040AM
KOAHNL 1200N 1248PM
HNLLIH 130PM 215PM
LIHHNL 300PM 345PM
HNLKOA 425PM 513PM
KOAHNL 600PM 648PM
HNLKOA 730PM 818PM
KOAOAK 945PM 553AM
OAKOGG 700AM 1045AM
OGGHNL 1200N 1240PM
HNLKOA 125PM 213PM
KOAHNL 300PM 348PM
HNLOGG 430PM 505PM
OGGHNL 540PM 615PM
HNLLIH 650PM 725PM
LIHHNL 800PM 835PM
HNLOGG 910PM 945PM
OGGOAK 1130PM 620AM
They'll miss out on the morning banks IF they don't overnight in Hawai'i, but as you can see, they can clearly penetrate the market using existing aircraft and NOT killing the cycles.
One big problem with your schedule - Southwest will not do redeyes. CEO is on record as saying they will not do redeyes, even with the launch of Hawaii service. This will severely limit how well they do in Hawaii.
WPvsMW wrote:More details on NH's three A388s entering TYO/HNL service "spring 2018". . .