WPvsMW
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Re: Hawaiian Airports and Aviation

Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:06 pm

Elliott Street Holdings, a wholly owned subsidiary of HA's parent Hawaiian Holdings Inc., is again the leading (only?) bidder for WP's AOC. In an unexpected twist, the proceeding reverted to Chapter 11 (reorg) from Ch. 7 (liquidation); it was originally filed as Ch. 11. HHI has lowered its overall bid to $550K from $750K after the discovery that WP didn't actually own all the assets it said it did. HHI is still mum about how it will use the AOC, the common expectation being that it will take the Ohana commuter operation in-house.
https://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/new ... -with.html
 
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SQ22
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Hawaiian airports and aviation - 2018

Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:05 am

Please continue your discussion and to post your updates here.

Link to previous thread:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1374309&p=19829467#p19829467
 
jsteeves3
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Re: Hawaiian airports and aviation - 2018

Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:17 pm

Question: why does HA fly HA273 to LIH every single day on a 763? Does it need to get the aircraft there or for capacity reasons?
 
hkcanadaexpat
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Re: Hawaiian airports and aviation - 2018

Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:07 pm

jsteeves3 wrote:
Question: why does HA fly HA273 to LIH every single day on a 763? Does it need to get the aircraft there or for capacity reasons?

HNL-LIH-LAX-LIH-HNL daily rotation.
A
 
vfw614
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Re: Hawaiian airports and aviation - 2018

Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:16 pm

Why? Can't they swap the aircraft at LAX - or is the capacity needed for the HNL-LIH leg or are HNL one-stop pax needed to fill the airplane?
 
obelau24
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Re: Hawaiian airports and aviation - 2018

Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:50 pm

vfw614 wrote:
Why? Can't they swap the aircraft at LAX - or is the capacity needed for the HNL-LIH leg or are HNL one-stop pax needed to fill the airplane?


I believe the rotation via LIH instead of LAX is to maintain the standard HA schedule of afternoon eastbound RON morning westbound. For whatever reason, that works best for HA (the LAX base probably keeps RON costs down). As far as I’ve heard, the 763 goes out full in both ways but then again HA could probably put an A380 on a peak day flight and it would fill without problem.

On another note, enilria’s Sunday OAG report is showing HA with daily service to LGB starting in July. Not selling yet online but I’m curious if this flight will make money - peak summer LAX is selling ~$600 round trip and a one-stop connection out of LGB on B6/HA about $100, but would LGB not start to cannibalize LAX - especially since LAX has the benefit of HA service to LIH, HNL, OGG and KOA?
 
MO11
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Re: Hawaiian airports and aviation - 2018

Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:44 pm

I'm thinking it will try to grab traffic from the Orange County area. Better to test the waters with an A321 than with a widebody.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Hawaiian airports and aviation - 2018

Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:54 pm

Agreed. LGB is the NIMBY SNA. LFs are VERY high LAX to HI on HA. I think this will produce great net lift ex-SoCal to HI. Smart move by HA.
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: Hawaiian airports and aviation - 2018

Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:35 pm

I hope this happens. As an Orange County resident, I dread the drive up to LAX, not to mention the whole LAX experience." Long Beach is a little bit closer and somewhat less of a hassle. Here's hoping HA extends service to ONT in the near future.

On another note, enilria’s Sunday OAG report is showing HA with daily service to LGB starting in July.


Its also showing up on HA's reservations page as a destination, but that's all.
 
hkcanadaexpat
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Re: Hawaiian airports and aviation - 2018

Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:40 am

vfw614 wrote:
Why? Can't they swap the aircraft at LAX - or is the capacity needed for the HNL-LIH leg or are HNL one-stop pax needed to fill the airplane?

There is no other 763 service to LAX with which to swap the aircraft (except for the Christmas holiday period LAX-KOA rotation). The 763s currently fly to SJC/SMF/PHX/CTS/PPG from HNL and SJC from OGG. CTS is going 332 in February as the first 763 is retired.
 
Xtremespeed01
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Re: Hawaiian airports and aviation - 2018

Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:46 am

The new HNL-LGB HA70 will be starting on May 31st with HA new A321neo leaving around 12:30PM with an arrival at 9PM. The return LGB-HNL flight, HA69 will depart at 8:30AM and arrive at 11:40AM.

Side note, HA PPG service is also being up gauged to A332 by March.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Hawaiian airports and aviation - 2018

Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:23 am

Finally. Lieflat in F (A330) begins on 20 Jan. 2018 on HA22 and HA21 (HNL/SEA SEA/HNL).
 
azjubilee
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Re: Hawaiian airports and aviation - 2018

Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:14 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
Finally. Lieflat in F (A330) begins on 20 Jan. 2018 on HA22 and HA21 (HNL/SEA SEA/HNL).


There have been many lie flat opportunities to SEA already. Jan 20th just signifies that HA is selling the both routes as such.


Xtremespeed01 wrote:
The new HNL-LGB HA70 will be starting on May 31st with HA new A321neo leaving around 12:30PM with an arrival at 9PM. The return LGB-HNL flight, HA69 will depart at 8:30AM and arrive at 11:40AM.

Side note, HA PPG service is also being up gauged to A332 by March.


PPG and CTS both upgauge to the 330 at the beginning of Feb.
 
WPvsMW
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Hawaii Airports & Aviation 2018

Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:12 am

Can't find the new 2018 thread... anyway... good interview with incoming and outgoing CEO/Presidents of HA.

https://airwaysmag.com/interview/high-f ... er-ingram/

Of note, from Mark Dunkerley: "For what we do, flying between the islands of the state of Hawaii, there’s no aircraft currently in manufacture or on the drawing board which is as good at fulfilling the mission as the Boeing 717. "
and (on the disappearing A358): "we very much like the looks of the 787. We also like the look of the 330neo programs so at this point, we’re spoiled for choice."
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Hawaii Airports & Aviation 2018

Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:37 pm

WN firms up CONUSS/HI plans. Service will start as soon as Dec. 2018.
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/3735 ... s-december

Kelly said "the actual timetable depends on approvals from the Federal Aviation Administration."

WN's expected interisland tags will HA's first real interisland competition since the demise of AQ.
 
MO11
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Re: Hawaii Airports & Aviation 2018

Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:47 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
WN firms up CONUSS/HI plans. Service will start as soon as Dec. 2018.
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/3735 ... s-december

Kelly said "the actual timetable depends on approvals from the Federal Aviation Administration."

WN's expected interisland tags will HA's first real interisland competition since the demise of AQ.


I'm sorry, I read that article a few times, but I saw nothing about inter-island tags. Not a good business plan.
 
obelau24
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Re: Hawaii Airports & Aviation 2018

Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:03 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
WN firms up CONUSS/HI plans. Service will start as soon as Dec. 2018.
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/3735 ... s-december

Kelly said "the actual timetable depends on approvals from the Federal Aviation Administration."

WN's expected interisland tags will HA's first real interisland competition since the demise of AQ.


I will gladly eat my shoe if WN decides to do interisland- period. It doesn’t make sense in this day and age. They won’t have the critical mass to cater to locals and visitors already have a plethora of affordable, non stops to every major island. What would be the point?

That aside, I’ve been saying for a while that the state needs to dispense with the interisland terminal idea and build a terminal extension from Gate 6 instead. Gate space is at a premium and will get worse when WN throws 5 or 6 turns into the mix at peak day.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Hawaii Airports & Aviation 2018

Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:18 am

Agreed re: expansion of HNL gates... which will happen faster if handled by an airport authority rather than Airports Div. of DOTrans.

As far as local segments tagged on WN's CONUS flights, it's not in the article, but the opportunity is there, esp. if HA and WN don't share any ticketing or interline agreements. Historically, WN has never codeshared or interlined, and I don't think that will change.

IIRC, in the 80s, DL used to have an HNL/OGG tag on a CONUS flight. WN will have counters, ground services, and gates at the major Island airports, and a single tag isn't going to cause thermal problems for the engines. The only issue is skeds.... there are certainly Rapid Rewards members, and plenty of non-elites on HA, ready to book interisland segments on WN if the price is right.
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: Hawaii Airports & Aviation 2018

Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:10 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
IIRC, in the 80s, DL used to have an HNL/OGG tag on a CONUS flight.


Not just in the 80s. In maybe 1999 I did LAX-OGG-HNL on a Delta L-1011. Stayed on the plane for the short stay in Maui and even got an invite to visit the cockpit. I think there might have been a flight that did LAX-HNL-OGG as well.
 
MO11
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Re: Hawaii Airports & Aviation 2018

Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:15 pm

hawaiian717 wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
IIRC, in the 80s, DL used to have an HNL/OGG tag on a CONUS flight.


Not just in the 80s. In maybe 1999 I did LAX-OGG-HNL on a Delta L-1011. Stayed on the plane for the short stay in Maui and even got an invite to visit the cockpit. I think there might have been a flight that did LAX-HNL-OGG as well.


The TriStar couldn't depart OGG and go nonstop to LAX, so the stopover at HNL.
 
77H
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Re: Hawaii Airports & Aviation 2018

Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:36 pm

obelau24 wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
WN firms up CONUSS/HI plans. Service will start as soon as Dec. 2018.
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/3735 ... s-december

Kelly said "the actual timetable depends on approvals from the Federal Aviation Administration."

WN's expected interisland tags will HA's first real interisland competition since the demise of AQ.


I will gladly eat my shoe if WN decides to do interisland- period. It doesn’t make sense in this day and age. They won’t have the critical mass to cater to locals and visitors already have a plethora of affordable, non stops to every major island. What would be the point?

That aside, I’ve been saying for a while that the state needs to dispense with the interisland terminal idea and build a terminal extension from Gate 6 instead. Gate space is at a premium and will get worse when WN throws 5 or 6 turns into the mix at peak day.


100% agree with your entire post. The only potential issue I see is whether or not the ground east of gate 6 can handle a full terminal extension. I remember reading about a plan to have all the cargo operators based where the north hardstands are today but the ground in that area couldn’t support the weight of the facilities they had planned. Something to do with that area being reclaim swamp land if I recall?

77H
 
obelau24
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Re: Hawaii Airports & Aviation 2018

Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:45 am

77H wrote:
obelau24 wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
WN firms up CONUSS/HI plans. Service will start as soon as Dec. 2018.
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/3735 ... s-december

Kelly said "the actual timetable depends on approvals from the Federal Aviation Administration."

WN's expected interisland tags will HA's first real interisland competition since the demise of AQ.


I will gladly eat my shoe if WN decides to do interisland- period. It doesn’t make sense in this day and age. They won’t have the critical mass to cater to locals and visitors already have a plethora of affordable, non stops to every major island. What would be the point?

That aside, I’ve been saying for a while that the state needs to dispense with the interisland terminal idea and build a terminal extension from Gate 6 instead. Gate space is at a premium and will get worse when WN throws 5 or 6 turns into the mix at peak day.


100% agree with your entire post. The only potential issue I see is whether or not the ground east of gate 6 can handle a full terminal extension. I remember reading about a plan to have all the cargo operators based where the north hardstands are today but the ground in that area couldn’t support the weight of the facilities they had planned. Something to do with that area being reclaim swamp land if I recall?

77H


Interesting - I never heard that. So the idea for the interisland terminal was that it would be one story to limit the weight (for lack of a technical term)? If that’s the case, then build the terminal extension as a single-story and either have jetbridges on the roof or board with airstairs. They would have done that with WP anyway. It’s not like they need space for check-in or baggage claim - all you need is a large open space with seating, gate podiums and moving walkways (I added the last one to make you laugh). They can build an external rampway for the WikiWiki to continue past gate 6 or have the Wiki operate airside like the American Eagle terminal or the Delta terminals at LAX.

Since you brought up cargo, the cargo aprons on the south ramp also need to be increased, especially because it’s only a matter of time until Amazon starts flying here. Try to encourage the flying schools to move to Kalaeloa so the hardstands can be extended WITH fuel pits. That is the problem now because only 4 of the 7(?) south ramp hardstands have fuel pits. Of course the other option is to build up Kalaeloa with state of the art facilities to entice cargo to move there. That would probably require a runway extension as the longest is only 8000ft so I’m probably dreaming that will ever happen. Not to mention you can’t usually have “state of the art” and Hawaii in the same sentence.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Hawaiian airports and aviation - 2018

Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:47 am

.... except in astronomy.
 
77H
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Re: Hawaii Airports & Aviation 2018

Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:35 am

obelau24 wrote:
77H wrote:
obelau24 wrote:

I will gladly eat my shoe if WN decides to do interisland- period. It doesn’t make sense in this day and age. They won’t have the critical mass to cater to locals and visitors already have a plethora of affordable, non stops to every major island. What would be the point?

That aside, I’ve been saying for a while that the state needs to dispense with the interisland terminal idea and build a terminal extension from Gate 6 instead. Gate space is at a premium and will get worse when WN throws 5 or 6 turns into the mix at peak day.


100% agree with your entire post. The only potential issue I see is whether or not the ground east of gate 6 can handle a full terminal extension. I remember reading about a plan to have all the cargo operators based where the north hardstands are today but the ground in that area couldn’t support the weight of the facilities they had planned. Something to do with that area being reclaim swamp land if I recall?

77H


Interesting - I never heard that. So the idea for the interisland terminal was that it would be one story to limit the weight (for lack of a technical term)? If that’s the case, then build the terminal extension as a single-story and either have jetbridges on the roof or board with airstairs. They would have done that with WP anyway. It’s not like they need space for check-in or baggage claim - all you need is a large open space with seating, gate podiums and moving walkways (I added the last one to make you laugh). They can build an external rampway for the WikiWiki to continue past gate 6 or have the Wiki operate airside like the American Eagle terminal or the Delta terminals at LAX.

Since you brought up cargo, the cargo aprons on the south ramp also need to be increased, especially because it’s only a matter of time until Amazon starts flying here. Try to encourage the flying schools to move to Kalaeloa so the hardstands can be extended WITH fuel pits. That is the problem now because only 4 of the 7(?) south ramp hardstands have fuel pits. Of course the other option is to build up Kalaeloa with state of the art facilities to entice cargo to move there. That would probably require a runway extension as the longest is only 8000ft so I’m probably dreaming that will ever happen. Not to mention you can’t usually have “state of the art” and Hawaii in the same sentence.


Yeah I remember reading that somewhere that the ground in the Northeast corner cannot support large structures. That being said, the whole of Waikiki was a swamp at one time and there are 350 ft high rises every few feet. Though I’m sure using the same building techniques used to build those high rises would be cost prohibitive for a public works project such as the airport. The rail is bad enough.

I also agree it would be rather prudent to move all light GA over to Kalaeloa but then again, I’m sure it’s only a matter of time before deep-pocketed real estate developers pressure the state to close the airport to give way to more subdivisions. I know the Coast Guard is there but they could probably consolidate them at HIK.

If you go on google maps, there is a “sandy” patch just south of 26R and north of 4L by the control tower. If you look closely you can even make out the foot print of old taxiways. Perhaps they could pave that area over and put light GA over there. Very convenient for 4L departures, assuming 4L isn’t deactivated.

I think the biggest issue with the Mauka concourse is that it is being built to service one airline. I know that all gates at HNL are technically common use but I’d be willing to bet money you’ll never see any other airline parked over there besides HA... and possibly JL depending on how tight-knit their proposed link up is. Nearly any other airline would have a fit having to move staff and equipment from their usual locations to the mauka concourse for a handful of flights a day/week.

77H
 
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RWA380
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Re: Hawaii Airports & Aviation 2018

Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:07 am

MO11 wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
WN firms up CONUSS/HI plans. Service will start as soon as Dec. 2018.
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/3735 ... s-december

Kelly said "the actual timetable depends on approvals from the Federal Aviation Administration."

WN's expected interisland tags will HA's first real interisland competition since the demise of AQ.


I'm sorry, I read that article a few times, but I saw nothing about inter-island tags. Not a good business plan.


Yup me too, in fact I have never seen anything official, it seems that may just be A.net hopeful thinking, in fact I can't see any reason that they should start offering Inter-Island flights unless they plan on keeping a sub-fleet for such flying (which I can't see WN being that bold in their first stab at the market). Tying up an ETOPS mainline jet for an few extra hours for a Inter-Island hop seems costly with little return, there is no way WN could even come close to competing with HA.
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WPvsMW
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Re: Hawaiian airports and aviation - 2018

Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:33 am

Query: Why did DL add the OGG tag on its LAX/HNL TriStar service? Because it was profitable.
The same logic applies to WN: if the "widest Y seats on any US airline" can attract Rapid Rewards members and non-HA elites, and ... a new factor, Asian LCC traffic onward to CONUS ... tags could work.

Can HA's "712 LCC" cabin with non-reclining seats and the hardest "seat cushion" I've sat on match WN's:
Two-inch recline
32-inch pitch
17.8 inch width
Adjustable headrests
Enhanced cushion comfort
Seat pocket on the top of the seat to offer more leg and shin room?

and the infrequent-flyer magnet... first bag is free.

https://thepointsguy.com/2015/04/airlin ... easure-up/

From a pax comfort POV, there's no contest. If the pricing is the same, pax comfort will pull the traffic to WN. Wider seats would find a warm reception among my plus-size friends, all of whom complain about the new 712 seats.

So... would WN have a USP vs. HA? Definitely. Will WN do tags? Time will tell.
 
hkcanadaexpat
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Re: Hawaiian airports and aviation - 2018

Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:31 am

WPvsMW wrote:
From a pax comfort POV, there's no contest. If the pricing is the same, pax comfort will pull the traffic to WN. Wider seats would find a warm reception among my plus-size friends, all of whom complain about the new 712 seats.
So... would WN have a USP vs. HA? Definitely. Will WN do tags? Time will tell.

Putting a lot of value on pax comfort on a 25 minute hop from Oahu to Maui is probably giving it too much thought. That being said, i welcome the competition. Will keep HA's pricing in check.
 
77H
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Re: Hawaiian airports and aviation - 2018

Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:59 am

WPvsMW wrote:
Query: Why did DL add the OGG tag on its LAX/HNL TriStar service? Because it was profitable.
The same logic applies to WN: if the "widest Y seats on any US airline" can attract Rapid Rewards members and non-HA elites, and ... a new factor, Asian LCC traffic onward to CONUS ... tags could work.

Can HA's "712 LCC" cabin with non-reclining seats and the hardest "seat cushion" I've sat on match WN's:
Two-inch recline
32-inch pitch
17.8 inch width
Adjustable headrests
Enhanced cushion comfort
Seat pocket on the top of the seat to offer more leg and shin room?

and the infrequent-flyer magnet... first bag is free.

https://thepointsguy.com/2015/04/airlin ... easure-up/

From a pax comfort POV, there's no contest. If the pricing is the same, pax comfort will pull the traffic to WN. Wider seats would find a warm reception among my plus-size friends, all of whom complain about the new 712 seats.

So... would WN have a USP vs. HA? Definitely. Will WN do tags? Time will tell.


To be fair, the longest inter-island flight is what, 50 minutes? HA’s 717 seats aren’t necessarily a deal breaker at those stage lengths for an average sized person. Beyond that, I believe those seats are permenantly set in recline configuration though to your point not as generous as WN.

As others have said above, WN would not be able to compete on frequency without basing aircraft here. Does WN have fleet slack enough to base planes in Hawaii? Certainly they wouldn’t want use the relatively new 738s or brand new 7M8s in a market that would almost certainly result in a fare war to the bottom.

It was just discussed that HNL is effectively out of space as it is. Where would WN park these planes? I guess they could possibly RON a few in OGG and KOA?

As for FF’s and international passengers using WN. I would imagine that there a few Rapid Rewards members in Hawaii save for a handful of transplants. The majority of residents will be HawaiianMiles members as you mentioned. I would expect Mileage Plus and Mileage Plan to be in second and 3rd and Skymiles after that based off existing market share.

International passengers will likely be largely unfamiliar with WN, their fares aren’t even listed on 3rd party websites like Expedia. It also doesn’t help that WN does not codeshare or interline with anyone so you’d have to make two separate itineraries.

77H
 
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Re: Hawaiian airports and aviation - 2018

Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:04 pm

Regarding interisland flights, it makes perfect sense for Southwest to go down this route. What they'll likely do (I and others have discussed this possibility before) is use a triangular system much like Delta did back in the '90s, say LAX-HNL-OGG-LAX. Delta did this with Tristars and 767s and was apparently profitable enough to do this routing, and similar ones to the other islands, for a number of years. I remember sitting at the gate in Kahalui and watching this shiny L-1011 taxi up to the gate fresh from HNL; it was such a short hop to pick up more passengers in OGG that the crew didn't time out, as I recall. This could be a great way for Southwest to get a little bit more utilization out of their ETOPs fleet.

As others have said above, WN would not be able to compete on frequency without basing aircraft here


By using a triangular system, Southwest could, in effect, artificially station planes in the islands. They'd always have a few birds there making short interisland legs and could use them in the event of major breakdowns and scheduling snafus. Basing ETOPS planes there permanently on short interisland hops makes no sense, but constantly rotating a few through on that short leg might address this problem and generate a little extra revenue. It will be interesting to see what the bean counters at Southwest come up with.
 
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Re: Hawaiian airports and aviation - 2018

Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:04 pm

Southwest doesn't even need to fly a lot to get a good traction of marketshare.

3 or 4 HNL/LIH and HNL/KOAs, and then maybe 6 HNL/OGGs will fill "the gap".

and before people ask about Hilo - I worked for Mokulele for 11 years in a number of roles, finished up as head of revenue. Hilo has never performed, even when we had jets. It also didn't perform for go!. Hilo begged/pleaded for Mokulele service, we showed up, but they didn't.
xx
 
obelau24
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Re: Hawaiian airports and aviation - 2018

Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:16 pm

Aptivaboy wrote:
Regarding interisland flights, it makes perfect sense for Southwest to go down this route. What they'll likely do (I and others have discussed this possibility before) is use a triangular system much like Delta did back in the '90s, say LAX-HNL-OGG-LAX. Delta did this with Tristars and 767s and was apparently profitable enough to do this routing, and similar ones to the other islands, for a number of years. I remember sitting at the gate in Kahalui and watching this shiny L-1011 taxi up to the gate fresh from HNL; it was such a short hop to pick up more passengers in OGG that the crew didn't time out, as I recall. This could be a great way for Southwest to get a little bit more utilization out of their ETOPs fleet.

As others have said above, WN would not be able to compete on frequency without basing aircraft here


By using a triangular system, Southwest could, in effect, artificially station planes in the islands. They'd always have a few birds there making short interisland legs and could use them in the event of major breakdowns and scheduling snafus. Basing ETOPS planes there permanently on short interisland hops makes no sense, but constantly rotating a few through on that short leg might address this problem and generate a little extra revenue. It will be interesting to see what the bean counters at Southwest come up with.


Using your example ex-LAX, why wouldn’t WN just fly LAX-HNL and LAX-OGG? The only reason a milk run would make sense to me is if the flight connects to a mainland city without sufficient demand for just one island (in which case why do it at all?). For example, RNO-HNL-OGG, FAT-LIH-KOA, ONT-HNL-OGG, SAN-ITO-HNL, EGE-HNL-KOA, GEG-LIH-OGG etc. In each case the origin city is either small or, in the case of SAN, wouldn’t have sufficient demand to just one island. I suppose that would work...
 
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Re: Hawaiian airports and aviation - 2018

Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:49 pm

Regarding the new projects at HNL, here is the plans.
Regarding expansion east of Gate 6, how essential is Runway 4L/22R with 4R/22L right next to it? 4R/22L is 2,000ft longer than its sister. A closing of 4L/22R and realignment of taxiways A, Z, and W could possibly give them plenty of space for a full-sized terminal. I think space-wise it works, but how important is 4L/22R?
Nikolas
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: Hawaiian airports and aviation - 2018

Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:50 pm

I'm sure they will, But, my point was about interisland services, and to do so will require:
- either a dedicated subfleet more or less permanently stationed in the islands, which I doubt will happen given Southwest's anathema to fleet diversity.
- or, a triangular or similar routing to artificially maintain a fleet of birds in the islands.

You can do the triangular run both ways, as Delta also did. They flew LAX-HNL-OGG-LAX, and LAX-OGG-HNL-LAX. That essentially gives you your return and it means a constant cycle of Southwest planes shuttling through and around the islands. Again, in case of maintenance issues or other snafus, a small supply of planes will be on hand to deal with whatever scheduling issues pop up, and it means that planes are rarely sitting idle. They're not doing unprofitable milk runs but instead are in the air earning revenue. If memory serves, Delta also did a triangular run with Lihue and Hilo, but don't quote me with absolute certainty on that.
 
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usxguy
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Re: Hawaiian airports and aviation - 2018

Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:14 pm

Southwest doesn't need to permanently base any planes out there. Maybe a line maintenance station. They can cycle planes into the I/I market via any of the 4 cities, and maybe even NOT have to RON aircraft in Hawaii

OAKKOA 700AM 1040AM
KOAHNL 1200N 1248PM
HNLLIH 130PM 215PM
LIHHNL 300PM 345PM
HNLKOA 425PM 513PM
KOAHNL 600PM 648PM
HNLKOA 730PM 818PM
KOAOAK 945PM 553AM

OAKOGG 700AM 1045AM
OGGHNL 1200N 1240PM
HNLKOA 125PM 213PM
KOAHNL 300PM 348PM
HNLOGG 430PM 505PM
OGGHNL 540PM 615PM
HNLLIH 650PM 725PM
LIHHNL 800PM 835PM
HNLOGG 910PM 945PM
OGGOAK 1130PM 620AM


They'll miss out on the morning banks IF they don't overnight in Hawai'i, but as you can see, they can clearly penetrate the market using existing aircraft and NOT killing the cycles.
xx
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Hawaiian airports and aviation - 2018

Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:25 pm

@usxguy, your examples prove the point. Feeder legs work for WN on CONUS where there are multiple competitors, why wouldn't feeder legs (adjacent legs of triangles) work in the Islands where there is one competitor and WN could offer (essentially) Y+ compared to HA's Y?

I can see a WN crew base in HNL before RON frames.

And since it's anut ... a WN island-hopper? A cash cow for UA, why not be MAX bold?
 
hoya
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Re: Hawaii Airports & Aviation 2018

Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:23 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
Agreed re: expansion of HNL gates... which will happen faster if handled by an airport authority rather than Airports Div. of DOTrans.

As far as local segments tagged on WN's CONUS flights, it's not in the article, but the opportunity is there, esp. if HA and WN don't share any ticketing or interline agreements. Historically, WN has never codeshared or interlined, and I don't think that will change.

IIRC, in the 80s, DL used to have an HNL/OGG tag on a CONUS flight. WN will have counters, ground services, and gates at the major Island airports, and a single tag isn't going to cause thermal problems for the engines. The only issue is skeds.... there are certainly Rapid Rewards members, and plenty of non-elites on HA, ready to book interisland segments on WN if the price is right.


Southwest codeshared on ATA to Hawaii and even within the U.S. before ATA went bankrupt. I believe the partnership lasted about two or so years.



usxguy wrote:
Southwest doesn't need to permanently base any planes out there. Maybe a line maintenance station. They can cycle planes into the I/I market via any of the 4 cities, and maybe even NOT have to RON aircraft in Hawaii

OAKKOA 700AM 1040AM
KOAHNL 1200N 1248PM
HNLLIH 130PM 215PM
LIHHNL 300PM 345PM
HNLKOA 425PM 513PM
KOAHNL 600PM 648PM
HNLKOA 730PM 818PM
KOAOAK 945PM 553AM

OAKOGG 700AM 1045AM
OGGHNL 1200N 1240PM
HNLKOA 125PM 213PM
KOAHNL 300PM 348PM
HNLOGG 430PM 505PM
OGGHNL 540PM 615PM
HNLLIH 650PM 725PM
LIHHNL 800PM 835PM
HNLOGG 910PM 945PM
OGGOAK 1130PM 620AM


They'll miss out on the morning banks IF they don't overnight in Hawai'i, but as you can see, they can clearly penetrate the market using existing aircraft and NOT killing the cycles.


One big problem with your schedule - Southwest will not do redeyes. CEO is on record as saying they will not do redeyes, even with the launch of Hawaii service. This will severely limit how well they do in Hawaii.
Hoya Saxa!!
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Hawaiian airports and aviation - 2018

Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:16 am

DH expansion of HNL moves forward... or is announced to be moving forward ... along with an Airport Authority bill in the Leg.
Only a video in the link, and a very crude rendering. The active construction segments in the video are of the consolidated car rental building... not of the DH expansion. Next step... an Environmental Impact Statement.

http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/clip/14124 ... lu-airport

To continue over a decade of dysfunction in modernizing HNL, the above announcement directly conflicts with HI Airports Div. current plan to put a new commuter terminal in exactly the same place.
 
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RWA380
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Re: Hawaiian airports and aviation - 2018

Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:59 am

WPvsMW wrote:
Query: Why did DL add the OGG tag on its LAX/HNL TriStar service? Because it was profitable.
Will WN do tags? Time will tell.


No DL did the HNL-OGG-HNL flight because it meant on arriving into HNL from OGG, DL could connect passengers onto several mainland cities n/s to ATL, DFW, LAX & SFO. I lived in HNL during the time DL & AA operated HNL-OGG-HNL, AA connected people to DFW, LAX & ORD via HNL from OGG. At the time a r/t ticket was $88.00, I bought a lot of them, they both were less than HA or AQ but only once daily on DL & twice daily on AA.
707, 717, 720, 727-1/2, 737-1/2/3/4/5/7/8/9, 747-1/2/3/4, 757, 767-2/3/4, 777, DC-8-5/6/7, DC-9-1/3/5, MD-80/2/3/7/8, DC-10-10/30/40, MD-11, F-27, F-28, SWM, J31, D38, DH7, DH8, DH4 SD-330, B-146, L-1011-2/500, ATR-42/72, VCV, A-300/310/318/319/320, CR2/7
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Hawaiian airports and aviation - 2018

Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:54 am

Well..... i don't think OGG would have been served on WBs by either operator if the yields were poor.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Hawaiian airports and aviation - 2018

Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:53 pm

P&W GTF woes, delays in A321 deliveries, cause HA to reduce Su18 sked, postpone new service.

http://www.staradvertiser.com/2018/02/2 ... -schedule/

https://www.hawaiianairlines.com/notifi ... adjustment
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Hawaii Airports & Aviation 2018

Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:44 pm

hoya wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
Agreed re: expansion of HNL gates... which will happen faster if handled by an airport authority rather than Airports Div. of DOTrans.

As far as local segments tagged on WN's CONUS flights, it's not in the article, but the opportunity is there, esp. if HA and WN don't share any ticketing or interline agreements. Historically, WN has never codeshared or interlined, and I don't think that will change.

IIRC, in the 80s, DL used to have an HNL/OGG tag on a CONUS flight. WN will have counters, ground services, and gates at the major Island airports, and a single tag isn't going to cause thermal problems for the engines. The only issue is skeds.... there are certainly Rapid Rewards members, and plenty of non-elites on HA, ready to book interisland segments on WN if the price is right.


Southwest codeshared on ATA to Hawaii and even within the U.S. before ATA went bankrupt. I believe the partnership lasted about two or so years.



usxguy wrote:
Southwest doesn't need to permanently base any planes out there. Maybe a line maintenance station. They can cycle planes into the I/I market via any of the 4 cities, and maybe even NOT have to RON aircraft in Hawaii

OAKKOA 700AM 1040AM
KOAHNL 1200N 1248PM
HNLLIH 130PM 215PM
LIHHNL 300PM 345PM
HNLKOA 425PM 513PM
KOAHNL 600PM 648PM
HNLKOA 730PM 818PM
KOAOAK 945PM 553AM

OAKOGG 700AM 1045AM
OGGHNL 1200N 1240PM
HNLKOA 125PM 213PM
KOAHNL 300PM 348PM
HNLOGG 430PM 505PM
OGGHNL 540PM 615PM
HNLLIH 650PM 725PM
LIHHNL 800PM 835PM
HNLOGG 910PM 945PM
OGGOAK 1130PM 620AM


They'll miss out on the morning banks IF they don't overnight in Hawai'i, but as you can see, they can clearly penetrate the market using existing aircraft and NOT killing the cycles.


One big problem with your schedule - Southwest will not do redeyes. CEO is on record as saying they will not do redeyes, even with the launch of Hawaii service. This will severely limit how well they do in Hawaii.

Using estimated flight times from HA.com and UA.com and because I'm a wannabe arm chairman Network planner.
How about something like this?
LAXHNL 06:00-08:55
HNLOGG 10:05-10:50
OGGHNL 12:05-12:50
HNLLAX 14:05-22:35

OGGHNL 05:00-05:45
HNLLAX 06:55-17:20
LAXHNL 18:30-21:00
HNLOGG 22:00-22:45

Just enough to test inter island service but not enough for a All out blood bath with HA.

Still will not believe WN in Hawaii until they actually put metal on the ground!

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
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usxguy
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Re: Hawaiian airports and aviation - 2018

Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:34 am

Flyguy,

that linear schedule would work, but I can see WN throwing a few planes for inter-island flights and just cycle them in and out without having to open up a crew base. Southwest only needs to mirror what go! did - operate 4-7 flights a day in the core market to be successful (well, go! was moderately successful till oil went up...)
xx
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Hawaiian airports and aviation - 2018

Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:21 pm

One step closer... WN leases space at HNL.
http://www.thegardenisland.com/2018/03/ ... ort-space/
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Hawaiian airports and aviation - 2018

Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:02 am

Beti Sue Ward, founder of Pacific Air Cargo... a legend at HNL (at least in the cargo world), final touchdown. RIP.
http://www.talanei.com/2018/03/14/found ... sses-away/
http://pacificaircargo.com/
6x HNL/LAX 1x HNL/PPG
Recently took delivery of their first 744F.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egCTiBa2O7E (interviewee is ex-dispatcher, now a loadmaster... interviewed at FE's position in a B742F(?)).
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Hawaiian airports and aviation - 2018

Thu May 10, 2018 12:02 pm

More details on NH's three A388s entering TYO/HNL service "spring 2018". "Couch seats" (4 abreast) in Y. "Pairs" in J.
http://www.staradvertiser.com/2018/05/1 ... ii-routes/
 
WPvsMW
Topic Author
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Re: Hawaiian airports and aviation - 2018

Wed May 16, 2018 1:32 pm

"JAL ... signed a partnership with Hawaiian in March after ANA terminated its tie-up deal with the U.S. carrier."

"Currently, six major airlines, including JAL, ANA and Hawaiian, and two low-cost carriers operate flights on routes linking Japan and Hawaii, such as the Narita-Honolulu route. JAL has a 32 percent market share in the Japan-Honolulu market, followed by Hawaiian at 22 percent and ANA at 14 percent, according to ANA."

http://www.staradvertiser.com/2018/05/1 ... ii-routes/
 
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PW100
Posts: 3082
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Re: Hawaiian airports and aviation - 2018

Wed May 16, 2018 3:48 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
More details on NH's three A388s entering TYO/HNL service "spring 2018". . .

Spring 2019, I would think . . .
Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Hawaiian airports and aviation - 2018

Tue May 22, 2018 11:46 am

Glen Wins ... on LF to HI. 89.46%
https://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/sub ... awaii.html
Top 5 (HA, UA, DL, AA, and AS) outside the paywall.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Hawaiian airports and aviation - 2018

Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:38 am

HA's advisory to its pax re: new signage at HNL.

Please note the following changes effective June 1, 2018:
1. Gates will be labeled with a letter followed by a number, from A13 through G10.
2. Each baggage claim carousel will be labeled by numbers that replace the current letter designation of B through H. International passengers will pick up checked bags in carousels 1-5. Guests arriving on Hawaiian Airlines’ Neighbor Island or North America flights will pick up checked bags in carousels 6-11. Please listen carefully for announcements made after each flight directing guests to a specific baggage claim carousel.
3. Terminals are also being renamed. The Interisland Terminal (Hawaiian Airlines) will be identified as Terminal 1; the Overseas Terminal as Terminal 2 (all other airlines); and the Commuter Terminal as Terminal 3 (Mokulele Airlines). Terminal 3 will be located on the east end of the airport with access from Aolele Street.
New digital signs will be placed over roadways to direct motorists to airline lobbies and check-in counters. In addition to giving the airport a fresh new look, the sign replacements are needed to accommodate planned expansions at HNL, including new concourses at each end of the airport.

We appreciate your patience during this transition. Please visit HawaiianAirlines.com/NewHNLSignage for more information and updated airport maps.
 
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usxguy
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Re: Hawaiian airports and aviation - 2018

Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:47 am

anyone have photos of the MW terminal?
xx

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