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Mistral1
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Emirates will start SCL

Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:19 am

No official information yet, but Emirates is expected to announce on wednesday the launch of
Santiago de Chile service from Dubai, with a stopover in Sao Paulo. The route will start on July 4th and will be operated daily with a two class B777, and will be an addition to the existing DXB-GRU route with the A380. Certainly they took advantage of the problems QR is facing, which forced them to suspend their planned DOH-GIG-SCL route due to start this month, but never opened for sale. This will be the first direct link between SCL and the Middle East.
 
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neomax
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Re: Emirates will start SCL

Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:59 am

I wonder if they actually had plans for this or seized the day, but at any rate, EK isn't holding back. Kudos to EK and SCL!
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: Emirates will start SCL

Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:05 am

Always expected EK to go double daily to GRU. Make sense. If SCL works well maybe Ek makes it nonstop?
Last edited by gatibosgru on Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Mistral1
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Re: Emirates will start SCL

Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:09 am

EK will give tough competition to european carriers like AF in the connection traffic to Asia from SCL, not to mention the US airlines and even QF.
 
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neomax
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Re: Emirates will start SCL

Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:23 am

Mistral1 wrote:
EK will give tough competition to european carriers like AF in the connection traffic to Asia from SCL, not to mention the US airlines and even QF.


US airlines never stood a chance on Asia-South America to begin with because nobody has the patience to go through US customs just to connect back out of the country. I don't know how well Euro carriers do to South America, but I doubt even they can beat EK at its own game.
 
dcajet
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Re: Emirates will start SCL

Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:55 am

gatibosgru wrote:
Always expected EK to go double daily to GRU. Make sense. If SCL works well maybe Ek makes it nonstop?


At over 9,000 miles, a DXB-SCL would be the longest non stop commercial flight on record. And with a brutal headwind component westbound, it'd be an epic flight, extremely costly to operate. Don't see any chances of it, at least for the foreseeable future.

The flight should do well, with EK doing very well with fifth freedom rights between SCL and GRU. That will be the biggest source of traffic feed ex SCL.

A nice jab to AAB's pride.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
worldranger
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Re: Emirates will start SCL

Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:09 am

If it is a 2 Class 777, this would explain EKs announcement at the Dubai Airshow - that they are converting their 10 77L’s to 2 Class config with 300+ seats.
 
thgsr08
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Re: Emirates will start SCL

Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:19 am

EK is not joking around.
Welcome to SCL and thanks for another flight to GRU.
:checkeredflag:
 
airbazar
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Re: Emirates will start SCL

Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:13 pm

Mistral1 wrote:
No official information yet, but Emirates is expected to announce on wednesday the launch of
Santiago de Chile service from Dubai, with a stopover in Sao Paulo.

The more interesting question for me is, when will EK introduce a TPAC route to SCL, and from where? :)
Surely they must be thinking of the marketing benefits for being the only around the world airline.

neomax wrote:
US airlines never stood a chance on Asia-South America to begin with because nobody has the patience to go through US customs just to connect back out of the country. I don't know how well Euro carriers do to South America, but I doubt even they can beat EK at its own game.

The majority of Asia-S.America traffic connects in the U.S. still to this day. It has decreased significantly but there's still a lot of traffic connecting in the U.S.
The market between Europe and S.America is too large and high yield for Euro carriers to make room for Asian connecting passengers. That becomes even more obvious when you consider that one of the largest European carriers in S.America, TAP doesn't even fly to Asia.
 
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TheLion
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Re: Emirates will start SCL

Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:21 pm

Honestly, even if true this is unlikely to be a big success. It's very long, thin and the stop at GRU means that any EK pax not flying ex-DXB have to make two stops, whereas there are a plethora of one stop options from major Asian cities to Lat Am capitals via Europe and the US too (although transit is an issue with via-US routings).
 
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Jayafe
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Re: Emirates will start SCL

Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:24 pm

neomax wrote:
I don't know how well Euro carriers do to South America, but I doubt even they can beat EK at its own game.


EK has no chance in competition with Euro carriers for SouthAmerica. Supply established for years, massive communities in almost everycountry and not underserved market. In addition, the stop at GRU ends up finishing any advantage.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Emirates will start SCL

Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:29 pm

neomax wrote:
Mistral1 wrote:
EK will give tough competition to european carriers like AF in the connection traffic to Asia from SCL, not to mention the US airlines and even QF.


US airlines never stood a chance on Asia-South America to begin with because nobody has the patience to go through US customs just to connect back out of the country. I don't know how well Euro carriers do to South America, but I doubt even they can beat EK at its own game.


European carrier doesn't even relied on Asia connection as much as, let say, EK does. O&D between Europe and S. America is big.

And for SCL, it is quickest to either connect in US or Australia/NZ anyway. GRU is a different story, and ME3 is already taking a fair amount of those traffic (In the ME3 vs CN3 thread, someone mentioned that GRU is one of the top connecting destination from China through DXB).

airbazar wrote:
Mistral1 wrote:
No official information yet, but Emirates is expected to announce on wednesday the launch of
Santiago de Chile service from Dubai, with a stopover in Sao Paulo.

The more interesting question for me is, when will EK introduce a TPAC route to SCL, and from where? :)
Surely they must be thinking of the marketing benefits for being the only around the world airline.

neomax wrote:
US airlines never stood a chance on Asia-South America to begin with because nobody has the patience to go through US customs just to connect back out of the country. I don't know how well Euro carriers do to South America, but I doubt even they can beat EK at its own game.

The majority of Asia-S.America traffic connects in the U.S. still to this day. It has decreased significantly but there's still a lot of traffic connecting in the U.S.
The market between Europe and S.America is too large and high yield for Euro carriers to make room for Asian connecting passengers. That becomes even more obvious when you consider that one of the largest European carriers in S.America, TAP doesn't even fly to Asia.


Not just TP, IB, which I would say is just as big on Europe-S. America, barely fly to Asia also. There is PVG and NRT and that's it (along with HKG on CX, but even that route is pretty new).
 
incitatus
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Re: Emirates will start SCL

Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:47 pm

neomax wrote:

US airlines never stood a chance on Asia-South America to begin with because nobody has the patience to go through US customs just to connect back out of the country. I don't know how well Euro carriers do to South America, but I doubt even they can beat EK at its own game.


Definitely not true. Emirates for sure has volume in the market. But when it comes to premium travel, the main point of sale for South America is Japan and JAL in coordination with AA connections in the US owns the market.

At SCL Emirates will have to deal with the fact that any destination that matters will be 2 stops away, compared with 1-stop options on several other carriers. They will be selling a lot of cheap tickets SCL-GRU.
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716131
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Re: Emirates will start SCL

Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:55 pm

2 class? You mean 3 class? I see all longer EK flights are operating 3 class.
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dcajet
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Re: Emirates will start SCL

Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:59 pm

incitatus wrote:
At SCL Emirates will have to deal with the fact that any destination that matters will be 2 stops away, compared with 1-stop options on several other carriers. They will be selling a lot of cheap tickets SCL-GRU.


Agreed, but to places like India & Thailand, EK will be the best option,. Incidentally, those 2 destinations plus China & HKG are EK's top selling destinations ex EZE, in addition to GIG.

In any case, EK has for years been the queen of fifth freedoms, especially from/to Australia on the Trans Tasman runs, Singapore and Bangkok. It appears now that. at least on the Trans Tasman runs, EK is leaving most if not all of the flying to its partner QF and most of the fifth freedom sectors are now between Europe and the USA and intra South America.
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worldranger
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Re: Emirates will start SCL

Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:18 pm

SQ789 wrote:
2 class? You mean 3 class? I see all longer EK flights are operating 3 class.


EK announced at Dubai Airshow - all ten 77Ls will be converted to 2 Class with new J product.
 
migair54
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Re: Emirates will start SCL

Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:01 pm

worldranger wrote:
SQ789 wrote:
2 class? You mean 3 class? I see all longer EK flights are operating 3 class.


EK announced at Dubai Airshow - all ten 77Ls will be converted to 2 Class with new J product.

The B77L with 2 class is announced for FLL, KHI, BOM, AMH, INC-GCO, very light schedule for 10 planes, so EK can still use in few more routes.

It has to be on the B77L because I think the 2 class B77W don't have the crew rest. I will not be surprise to see the flight with a 3 class B77W because of GRU also, the combination of GRU and SCL could make the first class a good option for many travellers.
The other question I have now, Is GRU going back to B77W with the EK261/262??

It is true that EK will have a hard time fighting for the market because the market have a lot of options via Europe, but I see from the other side also, The EK brand in many places in Asia is huge and very popular, also EK has many frequent flyers that will be very happy to keep adding miles on EK if they need to go for business to Chile. Also for sure the GRU stopover is making things less attractive, but many destinations will still have a 2 stops even if you go via Europe, no European airline have the network EK has in Asia and the flight time from most of Asia will be almost same even with the stop in GRU or via Europe.

Jayafe wrote:
EK has no chance in competition with Euro carriers for SouthAmerica. Supply established for years, massive communities in almost everycountry and not underserved market. In addition, the stop at GRU ends up finishing any advantage.

Obviously not in the Europe-Chile market, but I don't agree with you in the Asia-Chile market. If so far EZE is working for EK as daily flight via GIG, I don't see why SCL is not going to work via GRU.
 
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Mistral1
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Re: Emirates will start SCL

Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:13 pm

Exact my thought.
 
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LANA343x
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Re: Emirates will start SCL

Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:01 pm

Finally, can't wait to see them around here.
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wenders825
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Re: Emirates will start SCL

Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:21 pm

neomax wrote:
Mistral1 wrote:
EK will give tough competition to european carriers like AF in the connection traffic to Asia from SCL, not to mention the US airlines and even QF.


US airlines never stood a chance on Asia-South America to begin with because nobody has the patience to go through US customs just to connect back out of the country. I don't know how well Euro carriers do to South America, but I doubt even they can beat EK at its own game.

this is an anet myth. tons of Asian/Latin American pax connect via DFW/IAH/JFK/etc everyday. Japanese people are very loyal to JAL or ANA, who both feed AA/UA at DFW and IAH everyday. plenty of Hong Kong and mainland Chinese pax seem to do the same.

but these are also the people that say no one would fly PER-LHR, when that route is bound to be a success.
 
dcajet
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Re: Emirates will start SCL

Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:24 pm

migair54 wrote:
Obviously not in the Europe-Chile market, but I don't agree with you in the Asia-Chile market. If so far EZE is working for EK as daily flight via GIG, I don't see why SCL is not going to work via GRU.


It will work because EK will rely on the GRU-SCL-GRU fifth freedom to fill the plane and the market will follow. If a traveler has a choice to travel mostly on LATAM, GOL or Avianca, or Emirates, with far better service, ground & onboard product and at a comparable fare which airline will most people choose? That is where the comparisons with Buenos Aires end. Buenos Aires attracts and generates far more international traffic than Santiago, both on business and on leisure. especially the latter.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Emirates will start SCL

Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:49 pm

Mistral1 wrote:
EK will give tough competition to european carriers like AF in the connection traffic to Asia from SCL, not to mention the US airlines and even QF.

How can EK possibly compete with QF on Australia-South America traffic especially when PER-DXB-GRU-SCL is a two-stop flight 5000 miles further than PER-SYD-SCL? Not to mention EK's inferior product on the 777 than QF (at least QF ones are flat). The only way they can run for the money is by hugely discounts which won't win then any profit.

But, congrats to SCL. I never saw this one coming but it does make sense.

Michael
 
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Re: Emirates will start SCL

Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:15 am

eamondzhang wrote:
Mistral1 wrote:
EK will give tough competition to european carriers like AF in the connection traffic to Asia from SCL, not to mention the US airlines and even QF.

How can EK possibly compete with QF on Australia-South America traffic especially when PER-DXB-GRU-SCL is a two-stop flight 5000 miles further than PER-SYD-SCL? Not to mention EK's inferior product on the 777 than QF (at least QF ones are flat). The only way they can run for the money is by hugely discounts which won't win then any profit.

But, congrats to SCL. I never saw this one coming but it does make sense.

Michael


QF's main focus is Australia-SA traffic, its not going to loose much if any on connection traffic to Asia because its not there. QF'S SCL-SYD flight lands in SYD after 5pm and by that time all Asia flights except HND have departed, most these flights depart much earlier in the day so the only connection traffic on this flight is mostly domestic traffic and maybe some NZ traffic as well
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eamondzhang
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Re: Emirates will start SCL

Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:17 am

qf789 wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
Mistral1 wrote:
EK will give tough competition to european carriers like AF in the connection traffic to Asia from SCL, not to mention the US airlines and even QF.

How can EK possibly compete with QF on Australia-South America traffic especially when PER-DXB-GRU-SCL is a two-stop flight 5000 miles further than PER-SYD-SCL? Not to mention EK's inferior product on the 777 than QF (at least QF ones are flat). The only way they can run for the money is by hugely discounts which won't win then any profit.

But, congrats to SCL. I never saw this one coming but it does make sense.

Michael


QF's main focus is Australia-SA traffic, its not going to loose much if any on connection traffic to Asia because its not there. QF'S SCL-SYD flight lands in SYD after 5pm and by that time all Asia flights except HND have departed, most these flights depart much earlier in the day so the only connection traffic on this flight is mostly domestic traffic and maybe some NZ traffic as well

That's what I'm trying to imply with regarding to toe OP's post that QF will have a hit. Although I do admit that I jump the word of "connection traffic to Asia from SCL" but even then, many of the Asian countries' citizens are required to have a transit visa in order to transit in Australian airports (even without leaving the airside) so it's already a downside.

Michael
 
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VCEflyboy
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Re: Emirates will start SCL

Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:27 am

I have to agree that many Brazilian business people still prefer US and EU airlines to Asia because of their status with star or Skyteam.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Emirates will start SCL

Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:45 am

qf789 wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
Mistral1 wrote:
EK will give tough competition to european carriers like AF in the connection traffic to Asia from SCL, not to mention the US airlines and even QF.

How can EK possibly compete with QF on Australia-South America traffic especially when PER-DXB-GRU-SCL is a two-stop flight 5000 miles further than PER-SYD-SCL? Not to mention EK's inferior product on the 777 than QF (at least QF ones are flat). The only way they can run for the money is by hugely discounts which won't win then any profit.

But, congrats to SCL. I never saw this one coming but it does make sense.

Michael


QF's main focus is Australia-SA traffic, its not going to loose much if any on connection traffic to Asia because its not there. QF'S SCL-SYD flight lands in SYD after 5pm and by that time all Asia flights except HND have departed, most these flights depart much earlier in the day so the only connection traffic on this flight is mostly domestic traffic and maybe some NZ traffic as well


Not on QF, but you can connect to HKG via CX (CX138), CAN (CZ302, codeshare as QF325), TPE (CI52/QF389 Codeshare), PVG (MU736/QF303 Codeshare). You can get to SIN via interline also I believe (SQ242). Not bad of a list if you asked me. For Japanese and South Korean transiting through US is not an issue for them anyway (Plus it's shorter flights via US if you're that far north).

On the other hand, going south via AKL or SYD is only quick for SCL. To Brazil or even Argentina, EK is quicker.
 
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qf789
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Re: Emirates will start SCL

Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:47 am

zakuivcustom wrote:
qf789 wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
How can EK possibly compete with QF on Australia-South America traffic especially when PER-DXB-GRU-SCL is a two-stop flight 5000 miles further than PER-SYD-SCL? Not to mention EK's inferior product on the 777 than QF (at least QF ones are flat). The only way they can run for the money is by hugely discounts which won't win then any profit.

But, congrats to SCL. I never saw this one coming but it does make sense.

Michael


QF's main focus is Australia-SA traffic, its not going to loose much if any on connection traffic to Asia because its not there. QF'S SCL-SYD flight lands in SYD after 5pm and by that time all Asia flights except HND have departed, most these flights depart much earlier in the day so the only connection traffic on this flight is mostly domestic traffic and maybe some NZ traffic as well


Not on QF, but you can connect to HKG via CX (CX138), CAN (CZ302, codeshare as QF325), TPE (CI52/QF389 Codeshare), PVG (MU736/QF303 Codeshare). You can get to SIN via interline also I believe (SQ242). Not bad of a list if you asked me. For Japanese and South Korean transiting through US is not an issue for them anyway (Plus it's shorter flights via US if you're that far north).

On the other hand, going south via AKL or SYD is only quick for SCL. To Brazil or even Argentina, EK is quicker.


I was making the point that QF wouldn’t be affected as their focus is in Australia to South America market and as pointed out visas would be required for such connections
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RichardWelling
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Re: Emirates will start SCL

Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:49 am

I have a feeling QR will start this route again after EK does since QR has a “me too mentality” when it comes to their route planning. They tend to follow EK alot.
 
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PerfectGriffin
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Re: Emirates will start SCL

Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:10 am

Interesting. And they did it right after QR cancelled the route.
Given this situation, I think it goes to show that QR route planners have been doing a better job than EK route planners in the past couple of months, with QR starting destinations that have taken EK by surprise.
 
airbazar
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Re: Emirates will start SCL

Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:38 pm

incitatus wrote:
Definitely not true. Emirates for sure has volume in the market. But when it comes to premium travel, the main point of sale for South America is Japan and JAL in coordination with AA connections in the US owns the market.

What volume? EK has the grand total of TWO daily flights to the whole of Latin America.
UA(*A) and AA(OW), own the Asia-LatAm market. Just do a simple fare search on any of the online sites and see what pops up.
dcajet wrote:
Agreed, but to places like India & Thailand, EK will be the best option,. Incidentally, those 2 destinations plus China & HKG are EK's top selling destinations ex EZE, in addition to GIG.

Anyone who opts for a 2 stop over a 1 stop is likely looking for the absolute cheapest fares. That's not usually a recipe for success. There's a reason why EK doesn't fly to EZE non-stop, while it does so to AKL.
 
ojas
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Re: Emirates will start SCL

Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:17 pm

Is the above route official or yet unconfirmed?

Twice daily to GRU seems an overkill if at all it happens
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incitatus
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Re: Emirates will start SCL

Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:26 pm

airbazar wrote:
incitatus wrote:
Definitely not true. Emirates for sure has volume in the market. But when it comes to premium travel, the main point of sale for South America is Japan and JAL in coordination with AA connections in the US owns the market.

What volume? EK has the grand total of TWO daily flights to the whole of Latin America.
UA(*A) and AA(OW), own the Asia-LatAm market. Just do a simple fare search on any of the online sites and see what pops up.


Let's make sure we use the same geography. I wrote South America. You wrote Latin America.

60% of all traffic between South America and Asia is to/from Brazil and Argentina, which have EK service. Also, just because EK does not serve a particular country, it doesn't mean its market presence is zero. Right now EK effectively is flying passengers from SCL to Asia because it is the dominant carrier in itineraries that start in SCL through interlining at GRU/GIG/EZE.

Sure US carriers are strong but EK has the largest volume between South America and Asia. You may say just two flights, but they are large aircraft. The majority of their passengers steps off in Dubai and goes on to Japan, China, India, Thailand, Korea, Philippines and Taiwan,

Even looking at all of Latin America EK comes up at or near the top - but like I said, the premium market is a different story with US carriers + JAL stronger.
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airbazar
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Re: Emirates will start SCL

Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:37 pm

incitatus wrote:
airbazar wrote:
incitatus wrote:
Definitely not true. Emirates for sure has volume in the market. But when it comes to premium travel, the main point of sale for South America is Japan and JAL in coordination with AA connections in the US owns the market.

What volume? EK has the grand total of TWO daily flights to the whole of Latin America.
UA(*A) and AA(OW), own the Asia-LatAm market. Just do a simple fare search on any of the online sites and see what pops up.


Let's make sure we use the same geography. I wrote South America. You wrote Latin America.

And i did so on purpose to highlight how insignificant EK is in the continent. South America is smaller then Latin America and EK has only the grand total of TWO daily flights to the whole of Latin America, or S.America if that makes you happier. Not only that but one of the flights needs to operate with a tag just to be justified.
 
Arion640
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Re: Emirates will start SCL

Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:12 pm

airbazar wrote:
incitatus wrote:
airbazar wrote:
What volume? EK has the grand total of TWO daily flights to the whole of Latin America.
UA(*A) and AA(OW), own the Asia-LatAm market. Just do a simple fare search on any of the online sites and see what pops up.


Let's make sure we use the same geography. I wrote South America. You wrote Latin America.

And i did so on purpose to highlight how insignificant EK is in the continent. South America is smaller then Latin America and EK has only the grand total of TWO daily flights to the whole of Latin America, or S.America if that makes you happier. Not only that but one of the flights needs to operate with a tag just to be justified.


The only way they can make themselves significant is by growing their market share, by opening routes such as this.
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: Emirates will start SCL

Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:15 pm

ojas wrote:
Is the above route official or yet unconfirmed?

Twice daily to GRU seems an overkill if at all it happens


I don't have the numbers, but I imagine EK does very well at GRU with connecting pax. I think double day will be no problem for them.
@DadCelo
 
dcajet
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Re: Emirates will start SCL

Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:02 pm

airbazar wrote:
Anyone who opts for a 2 stop over a 1 stop is likely looking for the absolute cheapest fares. That's not usually a recipe for success. There's a reason why EK doesn't fly to EZE non-stop, while it does so to AKL.


Not sure I follow your logic. What does AKL have to do with this? For the routes I mentioned, (Thailand and India) flying Emirates from EZE is shorter by at least 1,000 miles than going via Europe - and with more destinations offered in both India and Thailand that if I were to connect in Paris, London or Frankfurt.

I'd also add that EK flies nonstop to AKL because via its hub at DXB it is the fastest and most convenient way to get to/from Europe. From EZE, you have plenty of choices for going non stop to Europe on a daily basis. The role that EK plays in the NZ market is not not it will ever be what its role is in Argentina or Brazil. It has nothing to do with cheap fares but with geography.
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gunnerman
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Re: Emirates will start SCL

Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:34 pm

airbazar wrote:
incitatus wrote:
airbazar wrote:
What volume? EK has the grand total of TWO daily flights to the whole of Latin America.
UA(*A) and AA(OW), own the Asia-LatAm market. Just do a simple fare search on any of the online sites and see what pops up.


Let's make sure we use the same geography. I wrote South America. You wrote Latin America.

And i did so on purpose to highlight how insignificant EK is in the continent. South America is smaller then Latin America and EK has only the grand total of TWO daily flights to the whole of Latin America, or S.America if that makes you happier. Not only that but one of the flights needs to operate with a tag just to be justified.

EK operates fifth-freedom flights between GIG and EZE. Some of that traffic will be local, so effectively acting as a restriction on traffic from/to Asia or anywhere else on the EK network.

As for SCL: I've just checked Amadeus, nothing loaded yet.
 
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Mistral1
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Re: Emirates will start SCL

Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:59 pm

gunnerman wrote:
airbazar wrote:
incitatus wrote:

Let's make sure we use the same geography. I wrote South America. You wrote Latin America.

And i did so on purpose to highlight how insignificant EK is in the continent. South America is smaller then Latin America and EK has only the grand total of TWO daily flights to the whole of Latin America, or S.America if that makes you happier. Not only that but one of the flights needs to operate with a tag just to be justified.

EK operates fifth-freedom flights between GIG and EZE. Some of that traffic will be local, so effectively acting as a restriction on traffic from/to Asia or anywhere else on the EK network.

As for SCL: I've just checked Amadeus, nothing loaded yet.


I was told that due to internal reasons, the official announcement from the company was delayed until further notice, probably next week.
 
upwardfacing
Posts: 423
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:56 am

Re: Emirates will start SCL

Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:10 pm

airbazar wrote:
The majority of Asia-S.America traffic connects in the U.S. still to this day. It has decreased significantly but there's still a lot of traffic connecting in the U.S.
The market between Europe and S.America is too large and high yield for Euro carriers to make room for Asian connecting passengers. That becomes even more obvious when you consider that one of the largest European carriers in S.America, TAP doesn't even fly to Asia.


The question is not whether European carriers make room for Asia-South America connecting passengers, but whether they sell tickets on those itineraries, and yes they actually do. Even for Middle East and parts of Africa. It could be a rather small number of passengers, but there is probably some space available.

Regarding the US carriers, I would guess that they traditionally have focused on Japan and more recently South Korea, as opposed to the rest of Asia, because (1) the geography works well and (2) the citizens of these two VWP countries can travel fairly easily through the US. (Although, as many here would point out, people of various other nationalities transit through the USA with required visas as well.)

Emirates, on the other hand, is tapping into its core markets around the Indian Ocean where they have lots of frequencies, strong points of sale, and high brand recognition, in addition to those countries further away on the Pacific Rim.

For those going to or from Kenya, Saudi Arabia, India, or Malaysia, for example, SCL with two stops is still more convenient than transiting via Europe. There are usually long transits at European hubs precisely because, as you alluded to, Asian connecting traffic is low priority. Moreover many nationalities will need transit visas when travelling through Europe to South America.

On the other hand, you're quite right in saying that two stops are not as competitive for those travelling between the Pacific Rim and Chile, so certainly Emirates cannot rely as much on Japan and Korea, for example.

Now, it would be correct to say that the aforementioned Emirates markets away from the wealthier Pacific Rim are each very small to a destination like SCL, but they can add up, and obviously tagging to/from Brazil is key.
 
dcajet
Posts: 4728
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: Emirates will start SCL

Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:33 pm

upwardfacing wrote:
Emirates, on the other hand, is tapping into its core markets around the Indian Ocean where they have lots of frequencies, strong points of sale, and high brand recognition, in addition to those countries further away on the Pacific Rim.

For those going to or from Kenya, Saudi Arabia, India, or Malaysia, for example, SCL with two stops is still more convenient than transiting via Europe. There are usually long transits at European hubs precisely because, as you alluded to, Asian connecting traffic is low priority. Moreover many nationalities will need transit visas when travelling through Europe to South America.

On the other hand, you're quite right in saying that two stops are not as competitive for those travelling between the Pacific Rim and Chile, so certainly Emirates cannot rely as much on Japan and Korea, for example.

Now, it would be correct to say that the aforementioned Emirates markets away from the wealthier Pacific Rim are each very small to a destination like SCL, but they can add up, and obviously tagging to/from Brazil is key.


Just take a look at the following Emirates data regarding the top five destinations sold from EZE:

* Dubai
* Delhi
* Bangkok
* Hong Kong
* Beijing

Was surprised not to see GIG on the top 5.

Clearly the traditional "Far East" (Japan and Korea) doesn't make the list and is better served via the US or Canada; I'd say Greater China is in the middle (can go both ways, US/Canada or EK/QR/ET) but EK has the advantage with the core markets around the Indian Ocean/Thailand/Malaysia/Singapore/Indonesia/Philippines.

http://www.sirchandler.com.ar/2017/07/d ... -emirates/
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
User avatar
NearMiss
Posts: 190
Joined: Sun May 22, 2016 5:10 pm

Re: Emirates will start SCL

Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:56 am

Seeing how more and more people are getting interested in travelling to the Middle East here in Chile, I think the timing for this announcement is spot on.
"There is an art, it says, or rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
 
descl
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:39 am

Re: Emirates will start SCL

Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:01 am

neomax wrote:
Mistral1 wrote:
EK will give tough competition to european carriers like AF in the connection traffic to Asia from SCL, not to mention the US airlines and even QF.


US airlines never stood a chance on Asia-South America to begin with because nobody has the patience to go through US customs just to connect back out of the country. I don't know how well Euro carriers do to South America, but I doubt even they can beat EK at its own game.

I work in a mining company (an important economic sector in Chile that generates a lot of business traffic), in an area very related with asian companies (mainly from Japan and Korea). Based on what I know, every time executives from both regions travel between Chile and China/Japan/Korea, they fly with American through DFW, so I bet US airlines play an important rol in this sector.

If the daily flights are confirmed, it seems a very aggressive strategy from EK, but i think it should be succesfull thanks to growing links between Chile and Asia, particularly with China:
This past year, visitors from China increased 34%.
Last 18 months there have been huge investments from chinese companies like Jiangsu Yanghe Destillery Co, China Railways Group Limited, China Southern Power Grid, China Energy Engineering Group, China Power, State Power Investment Corporation, Xinjiang Goldwing Science & Tech, China National Complete Plant Import & Export Corporation, GSR Capital, Chint, Mandarin Oriental Hotel Group, Yantai Changyu Pioneer Wine, Harbour Egineering Company, Sky Solar Holding, China Construction Bank, Bank of China, China Development Bank. Many of these have opened their regional offices in Santiago.
And dont forget that China is Chile's biggest trading partner.
 
dcajet
Posts: 4728
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: Emirates will start SCL

Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:33 am

descl wrote:
neomax wrote:
Mistral1 wrote:
EK will give tough competition to european carriers like AF in the connection traffic to Asia from SCL, not to mention the US airlines and even QF.


US airlines never stood a chance on Asia-South America to begin with because nobody has the patience to go through US customs just to connect back out of the country. I don't know how well Euro carriers do to South America, but I doubt even they can beat EK at its own game.

I work in a mining company (an important economic sector in Chile that generates a lot of business traffic), in an area very related with asian companies (mainly from Japan and Korea). Based on what I know, every time executives from both regions travel between Chile and China/Japan/Korea, they fly with American through DFW, so I bet US airlines play an important rol in this sector.

If the daily flights are confirmed, it seems a very aggressive strategy from EK, but i think it should be succesfull thanks to growing links between Chile and Asia, particularly with China:
This past year, visitors from China increased 34%.
Last 18 months there have been huge investments from chinese companies like Jiangsu Yanghe Destillery Co, China Railways Group Limited, China Southern Power Grid, China Energy Engineering Group, China Power, State Power Investment Corporation, Xinjiang Goldwing Science & Tech, China National Complete Plant Import & Export Corporation, GSR Capital, Chint, Mandarin Oriental Hotel Group, Yantai Changyu Pioneer Wine, Harbour Egineering Company, Sky Solar Holding, China Construction Bank, Bank of China, China Development Bank. Many of these have opened their regional offices in Santiago.
And dont forget that China is Chile's biggest trading partner.


Must say that it is kind of ironic that with Chile and China both on the Pacific Rim region, one has to fly to China going the opposite direction: east and literally go 2/3 around the world.

Hong Kong's South China Morning Post reports that China Southern expect to be flying to Argentina and Brazil in 4 years (it was 5 at the time of the reportage). Maybe they will extend the route to Chile? In any case, no details given about how the airline plans to route the flight/s.

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/ ... expand-its
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
incitatus
Posts: 3380
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:49 am

Re: Emirates will start SCL

Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:30 am

airbazar wrote:
And i did so on purpose to highlight how insignificant EK is in the continent. South America is smaller then Latin America and EK has only the grand total of TWO daily flights to the whole of Latin America, or S.America if that makes you happier. Not only that but one of the flights needs to operate with a tag just to be justified.


It is not insignificant. After Emirates adds DXB-GRU-SCL, it will have more seats to Latin America than British Airways, or Alitalia, or Air Canada. In the context of the largest country market, Brazil, and the largest metropolitan market, Sao Paulo, EK flies a lot more people to Asia than any other carrier. Yes, it is two flights right now, with a lot of seats in each.

If we are talking Latin America to Asia, Emirates is a very large player. Again, it is not only in the markets it serves directly. There are those interline markets where Emirates is the ticketing carrier and the dominant carrier in the itinerary.

I don't even like Emirates and I have to be repeating this point!
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
ojas
Posts: 1193
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:23 am

Re: Emirates will start SCL

Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:22 am

Mistral1 wrote:
gunnerman wrote:
airbazar wrote:
And i did so on purpose to highlight how insignificant EK is in the continent. South America is smaller then Latin America and EK has only the grand total of TWO daily flights to the whole of Latin America, or S.America if that makes you happier. Not only that but one of the flights needs to operate with a tag just to be justified.

EK operates fifth-freedom flights between GIG and EZE. Some of that traffic will be local, so effectively acting as a restriction on traffic from/to Asia or anywhere else on the EK network.

As for SCL: I've just checked Amadeus, nothing loaded yet.


I was told that due to internal reasons, the official announcement from the company was delayed until further notice, probably next week.


Oh! ... do you know which day will it be announced? Really keen to book a good deal on the inaugural.
Great leaders don't tell you what to do ... they show you how it's done!
 
Arion640
Posts: 3113
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: Emirates will start SCL

Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:47 am

incitatus wrote:
airbazar wrote:
And i did so on purpose to highlight how insignificant EK is in the continent. South America is smaller then Latin America and EK has only the grand total of TWO daily flights to the whole of Latin America, or S.America if that makes you happier. Not only that but one of the flights needs to operate with a tag just to be justified.


It is not insignificant. After Emirates adds DXB-GRU-SCL, it will have more seats to Latin America than British Airways, or Alitalia, or Air Canada. In the context of the largest country market, Brazil, and the largest metropolitan market, Sao Paulo, EK flies a lot more people to Asia than any other carrier. Yes, it is two flights right now, with a lot of seats in each.

If we are talking Latin America to Asia, Emirates is a very large player. Again, it is not only in the markets it serves directly. There are those interline markets where Emirates is the ticketing carrier and the dominant carrier in the itinerary.

I don't even like Emirates and I have to be repeating this point!


Why don't you like Emirates? What did they ever do to you.
 
scotron11
Posts: 1432
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 4:54 pm

Re: Emirates will start SCL

Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:28 am

SQ flew SIN-BCN-GIG 3x weekly but suspended it in 2016 because of weak sales. I guess if the traffic is there they could restart it again, but where would the stop be? BCN again....or?
 
JustSomeDood
Posts: 469
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:05 am

Re: Emirates will start SCL

Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:33 am

dcajet wrote:
descl wrote:
neomax wrote:

US airlines never stood a chance on Asia-South America to begin with because nobody has the patience to go through US customs just to connect back out of the country. I don't know how well Euro carriers do to South America, but I doubt even they can beat EK at its own game.

I work in a mining company (an important economic sector in Chile that generates a lot of business traffic), in an area very related with asian companies (mainly from Japan and Korea). Based on what I know, every time executives from both regions travel between Chile and China/Japan/Korea, they fly with American through DFW, so I bet US airlines play an important rol in this sector.

If the daily flights are confirmed, it seems a very aggressive strategy from EK, but i think it should be succesfull thanks to growing links between Chile and Asia, particularly with China:
This past year, visitors from China increased 34%.
Last 18 months there have been huge investments from chinese companies like Jiangsu Yanghe Destillery Co, China Railways Group Limited, China Southern Power Grid, China Energy Engineering Group, China Power, State Power Investment Corporation, Xinjiang Goldwing Science & Tech, China National Complete Plant Import & Export Corporation, GSR Capital, Chint, Mandarin Oriental Hotel Group, Yantai Changyu Pioneer Wine, Harbour Egineering Company, Sky Solar Holding, China Construction Bank, Bank of China, China Development Bank. Many of these have opened their regional offices in Santiago.
And dont forget that China is Chile's biggest trading partner.


Must say that it is kind of ironic that with Chile and China both on the Pacific Rim region, one has to fly to China going the opposite direction: east and literally go 2/3 around the world.

Hong Kong's South China Morning Post reports that China Southern expect to be flying to Argentina and Brazil in 4 years (it was 5 at the time of the reportage). Maybe they will extend the route to Chile? In any case, no details given about how the airline plans to route the flight/s.

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/ ... expand-its

I'd expect a stopover at ADD/NBO/insert African Airport here, with fifth freedom rights "persuaded" through more investment into Africa.
 
402679
Posts: 223
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:18 pm

Re: Emirates will start SCL

Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:49 am

scotron11 wrote:
SQ flew SIN-BCN-GIG 3x weekly but suspended it in 2016 because of weak sales. I guess if the traffic is there they could restart it again, but where would the stop be? BCN again....or?


I guess JJ entering the route (and kinda having success at it) with their 767 was also important for SQ to leave. And with JJ going to OW and ditching SA also played a role. Plus the economic crisis.
 
scotron11
Posts: 1432
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 4:54 pm

Re: Emirates will start SCL

Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:14 am

scotron11 wrote:
SQ flew SIN-BCN-GIG 3x weekly but suspended it in 2016 because of weak sales. I guess if the traffic is there they could restart it again, but where would the stop be? BCN again....or?


oops....meant SIN-BCN-GRU :banghead:

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