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VTORD
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:41 pm

vadodara wrote:

If Bombay and Maharashtra wants 'business', it needs to have a better model than bunch of Shiv Sena guys shaking travellers who are trying to transit from Sahar to Santa Cruz.


I am trying to understand what you are implying here. I have never heard of an incident where the Shiv Sena has rattled and/or harassed travelers at the airport. You make it sound as if that is a routine thing in BOM.

No I am not either a SS or an MNS sympathizer.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:26 pm

vadodara wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
vadodara wrote:
... why should the GOI have a responsibility to ensure BOM maintains its primacy? ...


But Prime Minister's Office(PMO) acting as Gujarat Economic Development Board, diverting all federal funds and projects to Gujarat is perfectly acceptable.

Rest of the country has to repay $34B fancy perpetual loss making 300 mile High Speed Railway project enjoyed by ONE state.


Like your audited Air India books, any basis to your statements?

Please post a link to audited Air India books. What years? If AI is posting annual reports, that is an end to the horrid corruption.


Personally, I do not believe the numbers as more debt and unpaid bills are routinely found.

But hey, prove me wrong. Post a link to an audited series of reports (one year does not count). Include tax liabilities.

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
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unrave
Posts: 2682
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:36 pm

VTORD wrote:

I am trying to understand what you are implying here. I have never heard of an incident where the Shiv Sena has rattled and/or harassed travelers at the airport. You make it sound as if that is a routine thing in BOM.

No I am not either a SS or an MNS sympathizer.


There are numerous accounts of SS and MNS affiliated taxi guys ripping off harried travellers who connected by road between the domestic and international terminals. Perhaps he is alluding to that.
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
binayak
Posts: 992
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:51 pm

unrave wrote:
VTORD wrote:

I am trying to understand what you are implying here. I have never heard of an incident where the Shiv Sena has rattled and/or harassed travelers at the airport. You make it sound as if that is a routine thing in BOM.

No I am not either a SS or an MNS sympathizer.


There are numerous accounts of SS and MNS affiliated taxi guys ripping off harried travellers who connected by road between the domestic and international terminals. Perhaps he is alluding to that.

Exactly . Before the shuttle bus service was started the taximen used to take as much as 700INR for just a five kms journey!!
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8446
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:57 pm

vadodara wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
vadodara wrote:
... why should the GOI have a responsibility to ensure BOM maintains its primacy? ...


But Prime Minister's Office(PMO) acting as Gujarat Economic Development Board, diverting all federal funds and projects to Gujarat is perfectly acceptable.

Rest of the country has to repay $34B fancy perpetual loss making 300 mile High Speed Railway project enjoyed by ONE state.


Like your audited Air India books, any basis to your statements?


Your state is sole beneficiary of Modi diverted federal funds and projects. What credibility your statements have?

AI bailout is appropriated and funded thru federal budget, you don't need audited books to know what is the bailout.

Bureaucrats who wants to scare off potential buyers keep leaking memos of more and more debt.
All posts are just opinions.
 
nmraja
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:11 pm

binayak wrote:
Exactly . Before the shuttle bus service was started the taximen used to take as much as 700INR for just a five kms journey!!


If someone travels by 9W from Europe to BOM and then onwards to another domestic destination by 9W, does the person have to go out to change terminal? Are there shuttle services now or is taxi/auto the only option? If shuttle is there, do we have to pay for it or is it a courtesy shuttle by airport? Any help on this is appreciated.
Raja.
 
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unrave
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:16 pm

nmraja wrote:
If someone travels by 9W from Europe to BOM and then onwards to another domestic destination by 9W, does the person have to go out to change terminal? Are there shuttle services now or is taxi/auto the only option? If shuttle is there, do we have to pay for it or is it a courtesy shuttle by airport? Any help on this is appreciated.


Jet Airways operates exclusively out of T2 now, so you don't have to worry about changing terminals.
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
nmraja
Posts: 146
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:59 pm

Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:19 pm

unrave wrote:
nmraja wrote:
If someone travels by 9W from Europe to BOM and then onwards to another domestic destination by 9W, does the person have to go out to change terminal? Are there shuttle services now or is taxi/auto the only option? If shuttle is there, do we have to pay for it or is it a courtesy shuttle by airport? Any help on this is appreciated.


Jet Airways operates exclusively out of T2 now, so you don't have to worry about changing terminals.


Good to know that. Thanks for the same. I didn't check on it before booking, glad it turned out to be ok. :)
Raja.
 
devmapper
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:48 pm

binayak wrote:
Anyone here knows about the load factors on the first DEL TLV flight. I'm curious to know that.

CNN reports about 110 passengers on the DEL-TLV leg and 200 on the return leg.
 
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Slash787
Posts: 951
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:49 pm

binayak wrote:

Exactly . Before the shuttle bus service was started the taximen used to take as much as 700INR for just a five kms journey!!


Dang Khalnayak, that was really too much.
 
binayak
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:54 pm

devmapper wrote:
binayak wrote:
Anyone here knows about the load factors on the first DEL TLV flight. I'm curious to know that.

CNN reports about 110 passengers on the DEL-TLV leg and 200 on the return leg.

Well it is attracting israelis. isn't it? However sad to see the figures for the DEL TLV leg. Well as someone else pointed out in another thread, int'l tourism from india is basically to bigger fancy cities. Israel will take time to attract Indians . AI has to spend a lot in advertising this flight to make it famous.
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
blrsea
Posts: 1950
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 2:22 am

Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:01 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Your state is sole beneficiary of Modi diverted federal funds and projects. What credibility your statements have?


You have been caught with made-up stuff without any evidence to back it up multiple times, in multiple threads. I think you need to introspect first before questioning other's credibility. What is ironical is that you are lying saying Gujarat is sole beneficiary for all federal funds and projects, and then questioning someone else's credibility. I just picked up the few links when searching online. Please back up your claim with evidence that Gujarat is the sole beneficiary of all federal funds and projects, which I doubt you can given your past posting history. Just like Kejriwal, making some eye-catching statement with no underlying proof :rotfl:

Cabinet approves Rs 24,000 crore rail infrastructure projects

These Are the 6 Railway Projects Worth Rs. 10,700 Crore The Cabinet Just Approved

Cabinet approves Noida – Greater Noida Metro Rail Project

Union Cabinet approved Lucknow Metro Rail Project Phase – 1 A

CABINET APPROVES SIX RAIL PROJECTS IN 4 STATES

Suburban rail: Cabinet approves ₹349 cr. investment

Union Cabinet approves Pune Metro Rail Project Phase - 1

Cabinet approves Noida-Greater Noida Metro rail project

Cabinet nod to four rail line projects worth Rs 8351 crore

Cabinet committee clears several rail, road projects

Chennai Metro | Centre approves for Metro Rail extension to North Chennai

Just a tip, almost every wednesday or every other wednesday, there will be cabinet meeting where many projects are cleared. Just look for it instead of just making up stories or repeating what some one else says.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8446
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:07 pm

blrsea wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Your state is sole beneficiary of Modi diverted federal funds and projects. What credibility your statements have?


You have been caught with made-up stuff without any evidence to back it up multiple times, in multiple threads. I think you need to introspect first before questioning other's credibility. What is ironical is that you are lying saying Gujarat is sole beneficiary for all federal funds and projects, and then questioning someone else's credibility. I just picked up the few links when searching online. Please back up your claim with evidence that Gujarat is the sole beneficiary of all federal funds and projects, which I doubt you can given your past posting history. Just like Kejriwal, making some eye-catching statement with no underlying proof :rotfl:

Cabinet approves Rs 24,000 crore rail infrastructure projects

These Are the 6 Railway Projects Worth Rs. 10,700 Crore The Cabinet Just Approved

Cabinet approves Noida – Greater Noida Metro Rail Project

Union Cabinet approved Lucknow Metro Rail Project Phase – 1 A

CABINET APPROVES SIX RAIL PROJECTS IN 4 STATES

Suburban rail: Cabinet approves ₹349 cr. investment

Union Cabinet approves Pune Metro Rail Project Phase - 1

Cabinet approves Noida-Greater Noida Metro rail project

Cabinet nod to four rail line projects worth Rs 8351 crore

Cabinet committee clears several rail, road projects

Chennai Metro | Centre approves for Metro Rail extension to North Chennai


Do the math, none of these add up to $34 Billion, estimated total payoff amount for one 300 mile segment AMD-Mumbai HSR.
All posts are just opinions.
 
binayak
Posts: 992
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:07 pm

Slash787 wrote:
binayak wrote:

Exactly . Before the shuttle bus service was started the taximen used to take as much as 700INR for just a five kms journey!!

Dang Khalnayak, that was really too much.

I presume you are not trying to make fun of my name using that rhyming word.!!
Well those were the harrowing days when air travel in india was a mess thanks to INC. When the old int'l terminal in BOM was operational , you would reach the airport at least 3hrs before departure time in order to hope you don't miss your flight!! Add to that travelling time b/w the 2 terminals in mumbai traffic. So connecting pax were always in a hurry . The cabmen took an advantage and dug gold out of them . These were few reasons why people then started prefering DXB as a better connecting point.
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
blrsea
Posts: 1950
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:21 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
blrsea wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Your state is sole beneficiary of Modi diverted federal funds and projects. What credibility your statements have?


You have been caught with made-up stuff without any evidence to back it up multiple times, in multiple threads. I think you need to introspect first before questioning other's credibility. What is ironical is that you are lying saying Gujarat is sole beneficiary for all federal funds and projects, and then questioning someone else's credibility. I just picked up the few links when searching online. Please back up your claim with evidence that Gujarat is the sole beneficiary of all federal funds and projects, which I doubt you can given your past posting history. Just like Kejriwal, making some eye-catching statement with no underlying proof :rotfl:

Cabinet approves Rs 24,000 crore rail infrastructure projects

These Are the 6 Railway Projects Worth Rs. 10,700 Crore The Cabinet Just Approved

Cabinet approves Noida – Greater Noida Metro Rail Project

Union Cabinet approved Lucknow Metro Rail Project Phase – 1 A

CABINET APPROVES SIX RAIL PROJECTS IN 4 STATES

Suburban rail: Cabinet approves ₹349 cr. investment

Union Cabinet approves Pune Metro Rail Project Phase - 1

Cabinet approves Noida-Greater Noida Metro rail project

Cabinet nod to four rail line projects worth Rs 8351 crore

Cabinet committee clears several rail, road projects

Chennai Metro | Centre approves for Metro Rail extension to North Chennai


Do the math, none of these add up to $34 Billion, estimated total payoff amount for one 300 mile segment AMD-Mumbai HSR.


You please do some math. And in your original statement, you said "sole beneficiary", which implies it gets everything and no one else gets anything going by standard English definition, and your statement was proved false. $34 billion is again a number you pulled out of thin air, just as always. Please look link 1 and link 2. The actual cost is around $17 billion. JICA , the Japanese agency is funding 80% of it at 0.1% interest with loan repayable over 50 years. So per year, India will just be paying a few hundred million dollars per year, while it will be spending much more on other infrastructure projects.

Your assertion is false on all counts. Please do read up before making pointless assertion and pulling numbers out of thin airs. No one wants to distract from the actual dicussion trying to prove your assertions false. But if left unchallenged, it will be used multiple times. Would help everyone if everyone stuck to facts.
 
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unrave
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:22 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:

Do the math, none of these add up to $34 Billion, estimated total payoff amount for one 300 mile segment AMD-Mumbai HSR.

How can you compare the two? One is the total pay off over 50? years. Another is the approved funding in today's rupees. Those two are not comparable at all.
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
yashk
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:46 pm

For the past week or so, AI is running about 7 daily flights on widebody aircraft on DEL-BOM sector (5 777 + 2 787)

Widebody Schedule From Bom
AI 806 8 am
AI 348 8:15 am
AI 677 1 pm
AI 687 4:30 pm
AI 144 5 pm
AI 310/314 8 pm
AI 101 9 pm

Are they actually getting good loads or they do not have anywhere to put this spare capacity on?
 
sand26391
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:58 pm

^^They are also deploying 777s to on the BLR-DEL sector from like 2 weeks or so.... all of a sudden
 
vadodara
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:47 pm

unrave wrote:
VTORD wrote:

I am trying to understand what you are implying here. I have never heard of an incident where the Shiv Sena has rattled and/or harassed travelers at the airport. You make it sound as if that is a routine thing in BOM.

No I am not either a SS or an MNS sympathizer.


There are numerous accounts of SS and MNS affiliated taxi guys ripping off harried travellers who connected by road between the domestic and international terminals. Perhaps he is alluding to that.


Precisely; not to mention travellers connecting to Railways or even trying to head to cities like Pune.
 
binayak
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:18 pm

yashk wrote:
For the past week or so, AI is running about 7 daily flights on widebody aircraft on DEL-BOM sector (5 777 + 2 787)

Widebody Schedule From Bom
AI 806 8 am
AI 348 8:15 am
AI 677 1 pm
AI 687 4:30 pm
AI 144 5 pm
AI 310/314 8 pm
AI 101 9 pm

Are they actually getting good loads or they do not have anywhere to put this spare capacity on?

Has something to do with slots at BOM. No more flights can be started so deployment of wide bodies in domestic flights will be useful. Plus the flights 348,310,314, continue upto PVG, ICN, KIX respectively and 144 is coming from EWR and continues to DEL. Even 101 used to strictly continue to JFK but nowadays you have to change planes at DEL although same flight number. ( something like AI 173 same number but different equipment for BLR DEL and DEL SFO).
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
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globetrotter94
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:46 pm

yashk wrote:
For the past week or so, AI is running about 7 daily flights on widebody aircraft on DEL-BOM sector (5 777 + 2 787)

Widebody Schedule From Bom
AI 806 8 am
AI 348 8:15 am
AI 677 1 pm
AI 687 4:30 pm
AI 144 5 pm
AI 310/314 8 pm
AI 101 9 pm

Are they actually getting good loads or they do not have anywhere to put this spare capacity on?


Weirder still, according FR24, it seems to be the brand new 77Ws doing these runs, but they are not being deployed on international routes.
6E, 9W, AF, AI, B6, BA, BI, BR, CA, DN, GA, IC, JL, KB, KL, KU, NH, QR, SQ, TG, TK, UA, VS
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:16 am

unrave wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:

Do the math, none of these add up to $34 Billion, estimated total payoff amount for one 300 mile segment AMD-Mumbai HSR.

How can you compare the two? One is the total pay off over 50? years. Another is the approved funding in today's rupees. Those two are not comparable at all.


The soft loan assumes Japanese economy will never grow over next 50 years and doesn't count for Yen-Rupee fluctuation. India cannot even use USD to hedge these risks. Hence the real estimated payoff of $34B. The current AMD-BOM rail road has 49% load factor. New HSR will be under heavy losses from day one.

One may wonder how this is related to AI or aviation. AI has to borrow at 15% from sister banks, but someone's pet project can get soft loans at 0.1%. One serves entire country and other is just 300 mile track.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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unrave
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:06 am

dtw2hyd wrote:

The soft loan assumes Japanese economy will never grow over next 50 years and doesn't count for Yen-Rupee fluctuation. India cannot even use USD to hedge these risks. Hence the real estimated payoff of $34B. The current AMD-BOM rail road has 49% load factor. New HSR will be under heavy losses from day one.

One may wonder how this is related to AI or aviation. AI has to borrow at 15% from sister banks, but someone's pet project can get soft loans at 0.1%. One serves entire country and other is just 300 mile track.


No, the loan does not assume anything. The risk of forex changes is inherent to all cross border borrowings. All such borrowings can be hedged irrespective of the currency though doing so will increase the cost of debt.

Not just AI all Indian business have to borrow at high rates compared to the ones in developed countries. That is simply a cost of doing business in a high growth high inflation environment like India. And JICA will definitely not fund AI's working capital at 0.1%
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
blrsea
Posts: 1950
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:21 am

people never cease to amaze with their pull-out-of-air numbers and imaginary conspiracy theories. Any loan whether in USD or Yen will have foreign exchange risks, that's a given when you take international loans.

Can you please point to one study which says the repayment to Japan will double to $34 billion? Plus you are assuming India will never grow and will be stuck at current levels while Japanese growth will be far higher! Just imagining doesn't count.

As regards to the JICA loans, their loans are typically in the 0.1-1.4% range. They have given lots of loans for infrastructure projects in India. A cursory internet search would have shown the details, instead of thinking of weird conspiracy theories. And honestly, are the Japanese or anyone so naive that they will give loan to a project just because an elected leader is chummy with their president? That too when they don't know if both of them will be in office as they are democracies and elections throw unpredictable results? The loan discussions with Japan and China were both progressing for a long time and it took a long time for all the loose ends to be tied and agreement signed.

Why Japan is pouring lakhs of crores in cut-rate loans to build infrastructure across India

Signing of Japanese ODA Loan Agreements with India: Comprehensive support for further socioeconomic development in India over a wide range of fields

Why will JICA or any development agency give loans to a commercial entity like AI, whether its govt owned or not? People have biases and preferences, that's perfectly acceptable.But trying to outrightly lie or come up with conspiracy theories to suit their biases is unacceptable, and unfortunately claims like those what makes a thread derailed, bringing unrelated issues into discussion, questioning others' credibility etc, while ignoring facts themselves.
 
dtw2hyd
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Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:45 am

blrsea wrote:
Can you please point to one study which says the repayment to Japan will double to $34 billion? Plus you are assuming India will never grow and will be stuck at current levels while Japanese growth will be far higher! Just imagining doesn't count.


There are enough studies (Google it) proving 300 mile HSR is not viable and will be a burden on entire India for decades to comes. All government conducted studies and derailed plan reviews recommended against the project, yet project got clearance.

AI's debt will be minuscule compared to HSR debt.

blrsea wrote:
Why will JICA or any development agency give loans to a commercial entity like AI, whether its govt owned or not? People have biases and preferences, that's perfectly acceptable.But trying to outrightly lie or come up with conspiracy theories to suit their biases is unacceptable, and unfortunately claims like those what makes a thread derailed, bringing unrelated issues into discussion, questioning others' credibility etc, while ignoring facts themselves.


HSR will be financially way worse than AI, yet JICA is giving loan. And no one is asking JICA to finance AI.

The man of deal making is not able restructure AI debt held by government banks. Few basis points reduction will help AI a great deal. But PMO is busy funneling money/projects to one state, no time to help AI. No conspiracy theory, read about KIA's automotive plant, just one example.
All posts are just opinions.
 
blrsea
Posts: 1950
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 2:22 am

Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:59 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
blrsea wrote:
Can you please point to one study which says the repayment to Japan will double to $34 billion? Plus you are assuming India will never grow and will be stuck at current levels while Japanese growth will be far higher! Just imagining doesn't count.


There are enough studies (Google it) proving 300 mile HSR is not viable and will be a burden on entire India for decades to comes. All government conducted studies and derailed plan reviews recommended against the project, yet project got clearance.

AI's debt will be minuscule compared to HSR debt.


You have to prove it. I have proven with links on the loan amount and interest which doesn't double the loan over 50 years. First prove your assertions before changing goalposts. Typical tactic of yours to keep shifting goalposts:
1. Claim all projects went to one state only (sole beneficiary)
2 . When #1 was proven wrong, claim the total of $34 billion is much more than projects in other state
3. When #2 disproved that it was never $34 billion, imagine scenarios and claim it can reach that amount
4. When #3 disproved, claim the project is unviable and debt will be unservicable

Anyone notice the pattern? Never once showed any proof to backup any assertion, but kept claiming one thing after other.

dtw2hyd wrote:
blrsea wrote:
Why will JICA or any development agency give loans to a commercial entity like AI, whether its govt owned or not? People have biases and preferences, that's perfectly acceptable.But trying to outrightly lie or come up with conspiracy theories to suit their biases is unacceptable, and unfortunately claims like those what makes a thread derailed, bringing unrelated issues into discussion, questioning others' credibility etc, while ignoring facts themselves.


HSR will be financially way worse than AI, yet JICA is giving loan. And no one is asking JICA to finance AI.

The man of deal making is not able restructure AI debt held by government banks. Few basis points reduction will help AI a great deal. But PMO is busy funneling money/projects to one state, no time to help AI. No conspiracy theory, read about KIA's automotive plant, just one example.


Again, same claim. I see you are following the cardinal principle that "A lie repeated thousand times will become truth". I have already shown links earlier and no need to prove anything again, while all you are doing is making baseless assertions without any proof.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:34 am

blrsea wrote:

You have to prove it. I have proven with links on the loan amount and interest which doesn't double the loan over 50 years. First prove your assertions before changing goalposts. Typical tactic of yours to keep shifting goalposts:
1. Claim all projects went to one state only (sole beneficiary)
2 . When #1 was proven wrong, claim the total of $34 billion is much more than projects in other state
3. When #2 disproved that it was never $34 billion, imagine scenarios and claim it can reach that amount
4. When #3 disproved, claim the project is unviable and debt will be unservicable

Anyone notice the pattern? Never once showed any proof to backup any assertion, but kept claiming one thing after other.


blrsea wrote:
Again, same claim. I see you are following the cardinal principle that "A lie repeated thousand times will become truth". I have already shown links earlier and no need to prove anything again, while all you are doing is making baseless assertions without any proof.


This thread is about aviation, hence I didn't post the links, but my reference to HSR and assertions are still valid. When AI is drowning in debt, helping AI out should be priority, not saddling India with more debt which is not sustainable.

Like I said there are several reports, stop using Bing.

On HSR total cost
https://thewire.in/business/india-japan ... llet-train

On HSR viability
https://www.businesstoday.in/current/ec ... 63031.html

Add up all other projects and show me they are any where close to INR 100,000 Crores. What is the total project cost Indian Railways. Rest of India cannot survive on bread crumbs.

You didn't prove anything, other than resorting typical a.net strategy of acting intellect and hoping others to jump in. Which they will.
All posts are just opinions.
 
blrsea
Posts: 1950
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:53 am

Again, like I said, your post does nothing much to prove your assertions, which you haven't backed up. And the article you posted doesn't take into account India's growth, which was a paltry 2-3% during that time period, mainly due to license raj and centralized economy.

India has spent more than 100,000 crores over the last decade itself on many projects while this has a repayment period of 50 years. Its not like everything went into this one project and everyone else is getting crumbs. The government investment into the project on yearly terms is pretty less. And I have provided links of multiple projects across India where central govt is putting more money on a yearly basis than servicing Japanese loan or the bullet train project.
 
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unrave
Posts: 2682
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:34 am

Telengana government reduces VAT on aviation turbine fuel to 1%
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 433066.cms

Expect even more planes to be based at HYD. Meanwhile traffic at HYD has grown from 6m to 18m in 10 years
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
freqflyer
Posts: 100
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:41 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
unrave wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:

The current AMD-BOM rail road has 49% load factor. .


Another in the series of gross mis-representations... this is the load factor only in the off season and it is 60%, not 49%. Also, the RTI query you seem to be quoting specifically asked for the no of pax travelling upto Mumbai Central from Ahmedabad Junction and vv. in JULY/AUG/SEP - completely off-season.
Also, a huge number of pax get on/off at Borivali, Andheri and Dadar . This traffic is conveniently ignored.
Because Mumbai has as many Gujaratis as Ahmedabad, traffic between the 2 cities will always be heavy. In fact, the rest of the year LF is 100% with a lots of pax with waitlist tickets lurking near the doors in each compartment. The HSR will go packed - some airlines may suffer initially, but the sheer number of travellers will ensure that everyone will have a slice of the pie.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 473194.cms
 
sand26391
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:47 am

^^ That's good to see, even BLR will get around 15 new code c stands in next 10 months. If I'm not wrong even VTZ will get a few in the east!
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8446
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:41 am

blrsea wrote:
India has spent more than 100,000 crores over the last decade itself on many projects while this has a repayment period of 50 years. Its not like everything went into this one project and everyone else is getting crumbs. The government investment into the project on yearly terms is pretty less. And I have provided links of multiple projects across India where central govt is putting more money on a yearly basis than servicing Japanese loan or the bullet train project.


100,000 cr in a decade averages to 10,000 cr a year for the whole country. This is 100,000 cr for 300 miles.

Most infrastructure projects are loans taken by state governments or public private partnerships. Metro operational losses are subsidized by state governments.

Delhi taking a loan for Metro from JICA or building terminal T3 under PPP with GMR, are reasonable examples. HSR-JICA federal loan leaching on entire country is not.

Coming back to the topic, investing heavily in Delhi or Mumbai hubs is not bad for the country, sure rest of country need to develop, but AMD need not to have hourly shuttle to DXB/HKG/SIN.
All posts are just opinions.
 
blrsea
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:53 am

Just make an effort to go through the links I have provided to understand central contribution. Looks like as per you, Central govt doesn't pay anything for infrastructure projects :roll:
 
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unrave
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:44 am

EoI for Air India stake sale likely in couple of weeks

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 433660.cms

In the recent weeks there's been a news report about an imminent EoI every other day. We are still at 'EoI will be issued at a couple of week stage.
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
VTORD
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:46 pm

vadodara wrote:
unrave wrote:

There are numerous accounts of SS and MNS affiliated taxi guys ripping off harried travellers who connected by road between the domestic and international terminals. Perhaps he is alluding to that.


Precisely; not to mention travellers connecting to Railways or even trying to head to cities like Pune.


Oh ok...I had forgotten there's actually a "Taximen Union" in Mumbai. And I thought the Pune market was pretty much taken care of by KK Travels.

binayak wrote:
Slash787 wrote:
binayak wrote:

Exactly . Before the shuttle bus service was started the taximen used to take as much as 700INR for just a five kms journey!!

Dang Khalnayak, that was really too much.

I presume you are not trying to make fun of my name using that rhyming word.!!
Well those were the harrowing days when air travel in india was a mess thanks to INC. When the old int'l terminal in BOM was operational , you would reach the airport at least 3hrs before departure time in order to hope you don't miss your flight!! Add to that travelling time b/w the 2 terminals in mumbai traffic. So connecting pax were always in a hurry . The cabmen took an advantage and dug gold out of them . These were few reasons why people then started prefering DXB as a better connecting point.


How far back are you talking about? I have been transiting international-domestic and vice versa since 2004. Never had occasion to take a cab. The process had changed a bit here and there but I never had to take a taxi to go from one to the other. And that's still 13+ years so not a small time period.
 
VTORD
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:05 pm

@blrsea, @freqflyer

As someone whose parents live on the BOM-AMD rail corridor and make frequent trips to Mumbai, i can pretty much vouch that there is no 40% empty capacity on the trains.

I think the actual argument against the bullet train is against the cost recovery. The fares first publicized by the Modi government do not agree with the fares that a high per capita income country like Japan pays on the comparable Shinkansen lines in Japan.

Modi govt., is publicizing fares of around 2500 INR round trip and I believe that is considered as economically not viable. I could try to find the article I read about this a few months back but I am pressed for time now, so given time I could try and post something. The argument I believe is to upgrade the current infrastructure rather than fanciful projects like the bullet train. Something like 80% of India's rail infrastructure is still a handover from the British era original.

The other objection was safety or rather the ownership of it. If the Japanese were to guarantee safe operations of the bullet train, that will most likely fly in the face of Make In India which is another flagship Modi scheme. Again, as I said I could try and find the articles but haven't before posting these.

The accusation that all funds are being diverted to Gujarat is emanating from the fact that Modi makes a show of taking all dignitaries to Gujarat. And the money being spent on colossal statues of Sardar Patel in Gujarat and Shivaji in Mumbai could be used for more furitful endeavours.

I think this discussion is beginning to get off the rails a bit so can we all please revert back to aviation?
 
devmapper
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:57 pm

unrave wrote:
EoI for Air India stake sale likely in couple of weeks

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 433660.cms

In the recent weeks there's been a news report about an imminent EoI every other day. We are still at 'EoI will be issued at a couple of week stage.

Good news?? I am so confused with all the subthreads going on in this thread that I don't know if this is good or bad. :sorry:

I am hoping the EoI documents are public domain and easily accessible. I think a lot of the conjectures and claims/counterclaims on ANet would be answered by the documents.

Hopefully nothing happens to upset the applecart in the next 8-9 months.
 
devmapper
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:02 pm

binayak wrote:
Well it is attracting israelis. isn't it? However sad to see the figures for the DEL TLV leg. Well as someone else pointed out in another thread, int'l tourism from india is basically to bigger fancy cities. Israel will take time to attract Indians . AI has to spend a lot in advertising this flight to make it famous.

It was just the first flight, give it a couple of months. Traffic between India and Israel has typically been dominated by Israelis on their break after their mandatory service in the armed forces. Hopefully J class traffic will pick up with collaborations in the Tech sector.
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:22 pm

unrave wrote:
Telengana government reduces VAT on aviation turbine fuel to 1%
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 433066.cms

Expect even more planes to be based at HYD. Meanwhile traffic at HYD has grown from 6m to 18m in 10 years


Good for them. As others have pointed out before, HYD has a great location to be a domestic hub (and the low fuel tax might even stimulate 9W to start AMS-HYD)

As far as the bullet train drama above - I feel like the bullet train is actually a boon for Bombay rather than one for AMD. What the train does, is firmly keep AMD and Gujarat in Bombay’s orbit. Like it or not but Gujarat is a pretty prosperous place. So having it tied to Bombay is a win for the city. And as the old school westernized Bombay Parsi, Sindhi, Christian, Punjabi, etc families emigrate, they are being replaced primarily by Gujratis. Bombay was always populated by them and now even more so (and I’m talking about South Bombay and the western suburbs - have no idea what happens in the East or in Navi Mumbai). And many of the families have businesses back in Gujarat with their new head offices in Bombay. So the bullet train is only logical.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:04 pm

unrave wrote:
Telengana government reduces VAT on aviation turbine fuel to 1%
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 433066.cms

Expect even more planes to be based at HYD. Meanwhile traffic at HYD has grown from 6m to 18m in 10 years

This is great news. HYD is well located for a hub.

It baffles me how any hubbing could be viable at airports with 30% tax rates. In rough numbers, that is a ten percent increase in the cost of flying a narrowbody.

I hope this works out for HYD.

Lightsaber
Late edit:. I see a 2nd HYD runway is planned and a growth in terminal capacity. This 1% fuel tax should pay off well.

In general, it is a small airport, so the added hubbing traffic will only be a third of the growth. But... The growth will be faster than the current 20%+! So that 30 million pax/yr will be passed quickly.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thehin ... 5.ece/amp/
Winter is coming.
 
sand26391
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:22 am

WEF 1st JUNE IndiGo is starting daily ATR flights connecting Bengaluru with Kozhikode/Calicut, bookings open!
6E7128 CCJ 0805 0920 BLR
6E7129 BLR 0950 1110 CCJ

IndiGo will soon launch non-stop Bengaluru-Udaipur with the tentative timings:-
6E503 UDR 1030 BLR 1305
6E493 BLR 0820 UDR 1100

After launching BLR-Ahmedabad, Vistara will launch direct flights connecting BLR with Cochin with the following timings(tentative)...
UK763 COK 1515 BLR 1635
UK762 BLR 1340 COK 1450

Not sure if Vistara has already announced this, but the airline is increasing frequency btw Bengaluru to Delhi to 6x daily... from the current 5 daily. Bookings open!
UK821 DEL 0310 BLR 0555
UK820 BLR 2320 DEL 0200(+1)
 
anshabhi
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:39 am

sand26391 wrote:
WEF 1st JUNE IndiGo is starting daily ATR flights connecting Bengaluru with Kozhikode/Calicut, bookings open!
6E7128 CCJ 0805 0920 BLR
6E7129 BLR 0950 1110 CCJ

IndiGo will soon launch non-stop Bengaluru-Udaipur with the tentative timings:-
6E503 UDR 1030 BLR 1305
6E493 BLR 0820 UDR 1100

After launching BLR-Ahmedabad, Vistara will launch direct flights connecting BLR with Cochin with the following timings(tentative)...
UK763 COK 1515 BLR 1635
UK762 BLR 1340 COK 1450

Not sure if Vistara has already announced this, but the airline is increasing frequency btw Bengaluru to Delhi to 6x daily... from the current 5 daily. Bookings open!
UK821 DEL 0310 BLR 0555
UK820 BLR 2320 DEL 0200(+1)

Hey bro! Do you have you bday tomorrow? (Going by your username)...?
 
sand26391
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:13 am

Yes sir!
 
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globetrotter94
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:15 am

Recently, I have been reading some forums about future expansion of DEL. Where will the next runway go? Will it be in the considerable space between 11/29 and the parallel taxiways south of T3--I have always wondered about that space?
6E, 9W, AF, AI, B6, BA, BI, BR, CA, DN, GA, IC, JL, KB, KL, KU, NH, QR, SQ, TG, TK, UA, VS
 
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Slash787
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:13 am

VTORD wrote:
How far back are you talking about? I have been transiting international-domestic and vice versa since 2004. Never had occasion to take a cab. The process had changed a bit here and there but I never had to take a taxi to go from one to the other. And that's still 13+ years so not a small time period.


I hope you are talking about Bombay's Airport, from what I know that you did have to take a cab from the Domestic Terminal to the International one, how did you transit?
 
blrsea
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:47 am

In BOM, Before BOM was renovated by GVK, I had transited from international to domestic and we were taken by a bus to domestic terminal through airside. We didn't have to step out of the international terminal. Not sure if similar arrangement exists even now or not.
 
VTORD
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:21 am

Slash787 wrote:

I hope you are talking about Bombay's Airport, from what I know that you did have to take a cab from the Domestic Terminal to the International one, how did you transit?


BOM. You would complete customs screen with your bag and then turn in the opposite direction of the exiting pax. there would be a scanner there to scan your bags again. The first two times I was able to check in with 9W's desk right there and transferred to a bus that took us to domestic. Later on I had to put my bags on a bus and re-check them at the domestic with 9W. 2006 - 2011 time frame. Pretty much what blrsea is saying.
 
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Irehdna
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:56 am

Today, Air India has started its 9x weekly DEL-SFO flights. AI183 is about 45min away from SFO.

2 years ago I would have never thought that there would be more nonstop flights from India to SFO than India to JFK, especially considering that back in the day, AI's only US nonstop was DEL-JFK (on top of one-stop JFK/EWR/ORD services from DEL/BOM/AMD). JFK was for a long time AI's flagship USA destination.

The success of DEL-SFO is absolutely astounding, but somewhat predictable: DEL-SFO's route makes one-stop options (either via EU or E. Asia) a much more significant detour than in the case of DEL-JFK, in which adding a stop at LHR/DXB/FRA will only add 3-4 hours to the journey vs. 6-7 hours if going to SFO.

I am interested to see what this means for the future of nonstop NA service from India; DEL-DXB/LHR/FRA-JFK is not that much slower (for most folks) than DEL-JFK nonstop, so any future players on DEL-US East Coast will have to innovate more on cabins and service to overcome the reputation of ME3 and EU carriers. Air India has an improving product, but the vast majority of the population don't realise that and still flock to ME3/LH.
 
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Irehdna
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:19 am

Also it would be interesting to see if UA starts nonstop flights from SFO to BOM/BLR. I think that they there is definitely potential, due to the high-yielding FF base in SFO, and the range capabilities of the B789.
 
binayak
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:17 am

Irehdna wrote:
Also it would be interesting to see if UA starts nonstop flights from SFO to BOM/BLR. I think that they there is definitely potential, due to the high-yielding FF base in SFO, and the range capabilities of the B789.

AI's success might provoke 9W to start US flights . The american carriers don't seem to be interested in india at all. For them india will always be low yielding . Any ways UA has lost a good opportunity and I don't think there will be any more frequency additions in this route for a couple of years.
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