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edmountain
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Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:10 pm

https://globalnews.ca/news/3953290/port ... n-toronto/

Frustrated by disorganization, some passengers pulled out their phones and began video recording Porter staff delivering information. It was then they were confronted with an unusual demand.

“At that point, the personnel came from behind the desk and started threatening us to call the police if we don’t delete the videos off of our phones and show evidence that it’s gone from our trash bin,” said Wegler.


Yet another example of spending more effort trying to control the message rather than getting the job done. Porter at least apologized later for the behaviour of their misguided employee.
 
georgiaame
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Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:16 pm

Pity for them they WEREN'T arrested. In America, we have this funny thing called "free speech". I know it isn't for everyone I know, but it works, and is recognized by all of our courts. They could have made a hell of a lot of money on this one, and would never have to fly Porter again in the future.
"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
 
Dominion301
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Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:23 pm

georgiaame wrote:
Pity for them they WEREN'T arrested. In America, we have this funny thing called "free speech". I know it isn't for everyone I know, but it works, and is recognized by all of our courts. They could have made a hell of a lot of money on this one, and would never have to fly Porter again in the future.


Before the 'free speech' and 'America greatness' patriotism stuff, read the article. This incident took place in BOS.

Do you honestly think we don't have the same free speech in Canada or any other 'western' country for that matter?

Check out the global "freedom" index to see where the US ranks (#23) vs. Canada (tied for #6) in 2014. https://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/ ... date-3.pdf

The point of my post is why do so many Americans think "freedom" is limited to them alone?

Back to the topic at hand, the PD employee (or contracted 3rd party PD representative as I'm not sure if PD station their own above the wing staff at BOS) clearly was misinformed and the pax were frustrated. That's about all this story amounts to.
Last edited by Dominion301 on Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:38 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
Noise
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Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:31 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
georgiaame wrote:
Pity for them they WEREN'T arrested. In America, we have this funny thing called "free speech". I know it isn't for everyone I know, but it works, and is recognized by all of our courts. They could have made a hell of a lot of money on this one, and would never have to fly Porter again in the future.


Before the 'free speech' and 'America greatness' patriotism stuff, read the article. This incident took place in BOS.

Do you honestly think we don't have the same free speech in Canada or any other 'western' country for that matter?

Actually check the global 'free speech' gauge and see where they rank the US.
https://rsf.org/en/ranking


Not sure about the link you're referring to, or that Canadians and Americans have the same definition of what 'free speech' is.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:35 pm

Noise wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
georgiaame wrote:
Pity for them they WEREN'T arrested. In America, we have this funny thing called "free speech". I know it isn't for everyone I know, but it works, and is recognized by all of our courts. They could have made a hell of a lot of money on this one, and would never have to fly Porter again in the future.


Before the 'free speech' and 'America greatness' patriotism stuff, read the article. This incident took place in BOS.

Do you honestly think we don't have the same free speech in Canada or any other 'western' country for that matter?

Actually check the global 'free speech' gauge and see where they rank the US.
https://rsf.org/en/ranking


Not sure about the link you're referring to, or that Canadians and Americans have the same definition of what 'free speech' is.


Sorry I posted the wrong link. See above for the correction.
 
runway23
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Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:38 pm

georgiaame wrote:
Pity for them they WEREN'T arrested. In America, we have this funny thing called "free speech". I know it isn't for everyone I know, but it works, and is recognized by all of our courts. They could have made a hell of a lot of money on this one, and would never have to fly Porter again in the future.


If you’re in a private place that doesn’t apply. Best you can do is tell an employee to walk away, they can then call the cops who will decide how it should be enforced.
 
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hOMSaR
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Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:44 pm

georgiaame wrote:
Pity for them they WEREN'T arrested. In America, we have this funny thing called "free speech". I know it isn't for everyone I know, but it works, and is recognized by all of our courts. They could have made a hell of a lot of money on this one, and would never have to fly Porter again in the future.


Free speech doesn’t apply to private interactions. It only applies to what the government can and can’t regulate.
I was raised by a cup of coffee.
 
sixtyseven
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Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:30 pm

hOMSaR wrote:
georgiaame wrote:
Pity for them they WEREN'T arrested. In America, we have this funny thing called "free speech". I know it isn't for everyone I know, but it works, and is recognized by all of our courts. They could have made a hell of a lot of money on this one, and would never have to fly Porter again in the future.


Free speech doesn’t apply to private interactions. It only applies to what the government can and can’t regulate.


Off topic but I love your tag line. Best on the site. It would be even better if you added

“It’s aircraft. Not aircrafts. Aircrafts is not a word”
Stand-by for new ATIS message......
 
CBBW
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Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:46 pm

georgiaame wrote:
Pity for them they WEREN'T arrested. In America, we have this funny thing called "free speech". I know it isn't for everyone I know, but it works, and is recognized by all of our courts. They could have made a hell of a lot of money on this one, and would never have to fly Porter again in the future.


There's so much going wrong here I'm pretty much nonplussed.
 
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neomax
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Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:52 pm

I think Porter made the right call. It’s ridiculous that now every person with a cellphone feels empowered to make such a huge deal out of a mechanical delay over which the crew had no control. If I was the one delivering the info, I don’t want to take the blame over something over which I have no control simply because pax feel they have the right to record me because somehow the delay is my fault. The lack of respect from pax is appalling, absolutely no regard on their part that uploading these videos could very well mean the loss of their job. Considering that every video from a normal delay exaggerated by unruly pax seems to go viral these days, I could very well understand the decision of of the crew to have these videos deleted. There are times where recording something has merit, but you have to own up to the consequences if it doesn’t. If you don’t want someone to record you, don’t record someone else. Recording someone without their consent is a threat whether you believe it or not, and you should not be surprised to see an escalation or harsh reaction if you’re the one doing it.
 
toobz
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Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:08 pm

The US thinks it has free speech - but in reality we do not. Travel the world a bit to realize that.
 
Passedv1
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Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:11 pm

“The aircraft door issue would be attributable to weather in this case due to the conditions. If there was a technical defect, for example, then weather would not be considered as the cause,”
said Cicero.

This is the more interesting part of the story to me. What kind of BS is that.
 
ddp
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Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:53 pm

hOMSaR wrote:
georgiaame wrote:
Pity for them they WEREN'T arrested. In America, we have this funny thing called "free speech". I know it isn't for everyone I know, but it works, and is recognized by all of our courts. They could have made a hell of a lot of money on this one, and would never have to fly Porter again in the future.


Free speech doesn’t apply to private interactions. It only applies to what the government can and can’t regulate.


Which is why the passengers should be ignoring the dumb requests of the Porter employees. Police, which is government, won't be arresting anyone for free speech.

Porter employees were trying to claim government would arrest them for free speech/expression.
 
720B
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Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:26 pm

sixtyseven wrote:
hOMSaR wrote:
georgiaame wrote:
Pity for them they WEREN'T arrested. In America, we have this funny thing called "free speech". I know it isn't for everyone I know, but it works, and is recognized by all of our courts. They could have made a hell of a lot of money on this one, and would never have to fly Porter again in the future.


Free speech doesn’t apply to private interactions. It only applies to what the government can and can’t regulate.


Off topic but I love your tag line. Best on the site. It would be even better if you added

“It’s aircraft. Not aircrafts. Aircrafts is not a word”


It is a word ... after all there is freedom of speech.... lol :)
 
santi319
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Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:31 pm

I was under the impression that If you tell someone thats recording you to stop and that you do not authorize your image in their pictures/videos they have to comply? Why wouldnt they blur out people on those hidden cams TV shows.
 
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PowerliftDrsTX
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Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:32 pm

sixtyseven wrote:
hOMSaR wrote:
georgiaame wrote:
Pity for them they WEREN'T arrested. In America, we have this funny thing called "free speech". I know it isn't for everyone I know, but it works, and is recognized by all of our courts. They could have made a hell of a lot of money on this one, and would never have to fly Porter again in the future.


Free speech doesn’t apply to private interactions. It only applies to what the government can and can’t regulate.


Off topic but I love your tag line. Best on the site. It would be even better if you added

“It’s aircraft. Not aircrafts. Aircrafts is not a word”



LOVE it lol
 
michman
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Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:04 pm

toobz wrote:
The US thinks it has free speech - but in reality we do not. Travel the world a bit to realize that.


Many countries (including Canada) have hate speech laws that would be prohibited in the US by the 1st amendment. If you do a bit of research, you'll discover that 1st amendment protections are, in fact, fairly unique to the US. The problem with recording someone is that it can potentially intersect in certain cases with a person's right to privacy.

https://www.bu.edu/bulawreview/files/20 ... MINSKI.pdf
 
Dominion301
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Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:14 pm

santi319 wrote:
I was under the impression that If you tell someone thats recording you to stop and that you do not authorize your image in their pictures/videos they have to comply? Why wouldnt they blur out people on those hidden cams TV shows.


That's very true. A woman in Ottawa recently successfully sued a company for videotaping her jogging alone on pathway and then using her in a commercial without her consent. The court ruling sets a precedent that in a public place (e.g. a sidewalk, bike path, AIRPORT, etc.), you do need the permission of the individual to record them if there is the intention of public display( i.e. in an ad on TV, posted to social media, etc.), whereas if you're shooting footage of a crowd without emphasis on any particular person, then you don't need permission. The argument could be made here that passengers were directly recording individual Porter representatives without their consent and we all know where those videos would end up.

Whether the court precedent that was set in Canada would be the same in the US, who knows. Threatening arrest though is ridiculous as even above, this was a civil suit and not criminal.
 
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Jayafe
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Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:40 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
lThe court ruling sets a precedent that in a public place (e.g. a sidewalk, bike path, AIRPORT, etc.), you do need the permission of the individual to record them if there is the intention of public display...


An airport (including terminals) is NOT a public place.
 
flydude380
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Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:47 pm

This video recording has to stop! Airline staff do not come to work to be recorded. How would the general public like to be recorded? What is this recording BS, set out to achieve?

The amount of times I had to get pax to delete any pictures and recordings, either, because I had to charge them excess or at other times, because a flight was delayed or cancelled and it was said, I should be making an announcement every 5-10 mins rather than every 30 mins.
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:47 pm

I was under the impression that If you tell someone thats recording you to stop and that you do not authorize your image in their pictures/videos they have to comply? Why wouldnt they blur out people on those hidden cams TV shows.


It depends upon where the taping is being done. Short answer, if you're in a place deemed to be public or even semi-public, taping is usually permitted because there is no assumed privacy there. If you've ever seen those drunks being removed from plane videos, some of them start telling the other pax that they can't tape them. Um, wrong. In a semi-public place like a metal tube filled with a couple hundred folks, there is no assumed right to privacy. I would imagine it would be the same in an airport terminal. In a private setting like a closed office, you could argue the opposite since in a very private space like that there is an assumed right to privacy, and there are various state laws to that effect around the country.

All of this applies to the USA, of course. Other countries have different laws.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:49 pm

I’m looking at this from another perspective. If the PD employees were acting professionally, why would they be worried about being recorded. As an anology, it would be like if a VP was standing near my desk at work. I shouldn’t be doing anything that I wouldn’t want him to see.
 
bagoldex
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Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:58 pm

flydude380 wrote:
This video recording has to stop! Airline staff do not come to work to be recorded. How would the general public like to be recorded? What is this recording BS, set out to achieve?


I'd be completely fine being on camera to my clients from the moment I arrive at work until I walk out the door at the end of the day. If you're competent and exhibit good customer service skills, why the fear of it being documented?
 
wingman
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Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:05 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
The point of my post is why do so many Americans think "freedom" is limited to them alone?


Because we rank #4 in the "stupid" index and #2 in the "fat" index (mostly because of "freedom fries"). But don't get too excited, Canada ranks #1 in the "have identity issues so must wear flag on all luggage" ranking.
Last edited by wingman on Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Qantas16
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Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:05 pm

flydude380 wrote:
This video recording has to stop! Airline staff do not come to work to be recorded. How would the general public like to be recorded? What is this recording BS, set out to achieve?

The amount of times I had to get pax to delete any pictures and recordings, either, because I had to charge them excess or at other times, because a flight was delayed or cancelled and it was said, I should be making an announcement every 5-10 mins rather than every 30 mins.


:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: Agree completely. Your bag is lost? oh better get out the phone and film yourself yelling at the staff so you can put it on Facebook and get sympathy likes... not sure I'm comfortable banning people from filming things - it can serve an important purpose, but it has gone too far.
 
qcpilotxf
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Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:13 pm

Jayafe wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
lThe court ruling sets a precedent that in a public place (e.g. a sidewalk, bike path, AIRPORT, etc.), you do need the permission of the individual to record them if there is the intention of public display...


An airport (including terminals) is NOT a public place.


Thats funny you say that, I have worked in an airport for many years. The exact quote from the airport police and administrator on this topic is "The airport is a public place, we can't stop the public from doing things that don't impede security". If it is owned by a government or a government agency (which most are) that means it is public.
 
diverted
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Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:16 pm

wingman wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
The point of my post is why do so many Americans think "freedom" is limited to them alone?


Because we rank #4 in the "stupid" index and #2 in the "fat" index (mostly because of "freedom fries"). But don't get too excited, Canada ranks #1 in the "have identity issues so must wear flag on all luggage" ranking.


Nah, we do it so we won't be mistaken for you lot ;)
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:40 pm

wingman wrote:
...don't get too excited, Canada ranks #1 in the "have identity issues so must wear flag on all luggage" ranking.


diverted wrote:
Nah, we do it so we won't be mistaken for you lot ;)


Like he said, you folks have got identity issues. :)
Ironically, if US citizens all wore flag pins and had decals of the US flag on our luggage we'd be accused of being chauvinistic, like our politicians. :0
Travelers should know to listen for the word "about". Once informed, you'll never mistake a Canadian citizen for one from the US so our friends to the north really needn't worry.

yeo
 
dcaviation
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Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:41 pm

Jayafe wrote:
An airport (including terminals) is NOT a public place.


If Boston airport receives even 1 cent subsidy for any of the projects from the government (Federal, State, County) then it is public place!
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 pm

flydude380 wrote:
....How would the general public like to be recorded? ...


Every airport has 100s if not 1000s of cameras.
All posts are just opinions.
 
flydude380
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Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:03 am

    dtw2hyd wrote:
    flydude380 wrote:
    ....How would the general public like to be recorded? ...


    Every airport has 100s if not 1000s of cameras.


    Sure, for your safety and security. Not so you can abuse an airline member of staff for whatever reason, then get thousands of 'likes' for it on social media!!
     
    flydude380
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    Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

    Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:10 am

    bagoldex wrote:
    flydude380 wrote:
    This video recording has to stop! Airline staff do not come to work to be recorded. How would the general public like to be recorded? What is this recording BS, set out to achieve?


    I'd be completely fine being on camera to my clients from the moment I arrive at work until I walk out the door at the end of the day. If you're competent and exhibit good customer service skills, why the fear of it being documented?


    That's fine. Each to their own.

    Want to compliment me on my customer service? Write to my company about it, I tell my customers. Not happy with my service or company policies? Once again, write in about it.

    There was only one time I allowed a bunch of fun ladies take a photo of me, as they told me I was a guy with a great personality. Would I allow someone to show my handsome face off again? Probably not...
     
    flydude380
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    Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

    Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:15 am

    qcpilotxf wrote:
    Jayafe wrote:
    Dominion301 wrote:
    lThe court ruling sets a precedent that in a public place (e.g. a sidewalk, bike path, AIRPORT, etc.), you do need the permission of the individual to record them if there is the intention of public display...


    An airport (including terminals) is NOT a public place.


    Thats funny you say that, I have worked in an airport for many years. The exact quote from the airport police and administrator on this topic is "The airport is a public place, we can't stop the public from doing things that don't impede security". If it is owned by a government or a government agency (which most are) that means it is public.


    Recording airline staff is an infringement on safety and security. Airline staff are bound to be targets out their by sick people. This is why we don't share crew hotel info!!
     
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    longhauler
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    Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

    Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:21 am

    I find people tend to use their cameras as an act of (passive) agression, not just in the airline world, but everywhere. As long as we back them and "like" them, they will continue.

    I recently had an incident where when leaving the forward lav to go to the cockpit, a Business Class passenger jumped past the curtain (and Flight Attendant) to use the lav. When I explained to him politely that that Canadian Air Regulations requires that he be on the other side of the curtain (and F/A) while the cockpit door was opened, his answer was "you can wait".

    Again, I explained the rules and he pulled out his phone and placed it two inches from my nose, "daring" me to do something.

    So, I took a deep breath and said to his phone "I am Captain Longhauler, commanding Air Canada flight AAA, from BBB to CCC on Decmeber XX. 2017. I have asked this gentleman twice, and now three times to comply with CARs and leave the galley area while the cockpit door is opened." Then I told him ... see there, a security camera, over there, another camera, and back there, a third camera ... all recording this. So ... if this doesn't go as you hope, you won't be able to delete every copy of this interaction when the authorities are called when we reach CCC. And trust me, I am required to call the authorities at CCC if you don't comply with Canadian Air Regulations.

    He swore loudly and went back to his seat.
    Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
     
    tonystan
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    Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

    Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:25 am

    My company recently issued a message to employees advising us that we actually have no legal right to demand someone to stop filming or delete footage from their personal devices.

    Simply put, we just have to get on with it. The way I see it is as long as I’m not actually doing anything wrong, im following the company policy for whatever the situation is, I remain calm and professional and I don’t allow the presence of the camera to dictate the outcome in their favor I have nothing to worry about. If anything I can only see it to serve myself should it ever go to social media.

    Cameras are a fact of life now, as are stupid people. Make it work for you!
    My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
     
    dtw2hyd
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    Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

    Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:31 am

    flydude380 wrote:
      dtw2hyd wrote:
      flydude380 wrote:
      ....How would the general public like to be recorded? ...


      Every airport has 100s if not 1000s of cameras.


      Sure, for your safety and security. Not so you can abuse an airline member of staff for whatever reason, then get thousands of 'likes' for it on social media!!


      Oh really, How long it would take for a passenger to get a copy of security footage. File an injunction immediately not to delete the tape, and go through legal proceedings for 3 years, and hope all the while it didn't get deleted or destroyed.

      The place is owned by the airport authority, not the airline, the airline is paying airport fees it collected from passengers.

      Third-party ground handlers who neither are airline employees nor airport employee want to claim ultimate privileges.

      You cannot flip-flop between a federal employee and private citizen on a dime.
      All posts are just opinions.
       
      NWADTWE16
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      Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

      Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:35 am

      What person here who has served as Front line Airline employee has not been taped? Is it right, no, but it goes with the territory of having a public facing role. Along with that role comes the need for people who handle without losing their cool, the stresses of such a role.
      Prior to all the security local news channels in Detroit used to love to come down to the Northwest delayed flight gates and shove a camera up to a Gate agents face then display it on the news.
      I haven't been everywhere, but it's on my list!
       
      bagoldex
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      Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

      Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:38 am

      flydude380 wrote:
      bagoldex wrote:
      flydude380 wrote:
      This video recording has to stop! Airline staff do not come to work to be recorded. How would the general public like to be recorded? What is this recording BS, set out to achieve?


      I'd be completely fine being on camera to my clients from the moment I arrive at work until I walk out the door at the end of the day. If you're competent and exhibit good customer service skills, why the fear of it being documented?


      That's fine. Each to their own.

      Want to compliment me on my customer service? Write to my company about it, I tell my customers. Not happy with my service or company policies? Once again, write in about it.


      It's your job and you're compensated for providing exceptional customer service so I won't be writing any thank you letters but if you seriously screw up, it's vastly more effective to get it on tape for the others to see.
       
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      SheikhDjibouti
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      Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

      Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:00 am

      qcpilotxf wrote:
      Thats funny you say that, I have worked in an airport for many years. The exact quote from the airport police and administrator on this topic is "The airport is a public place, we can't stop the public from doing things that don't impede security". If it is owned by a government or a government agency (which most are) that means it is public.

      I'm not sure about the "most airports are owned by a government or government agency" bit.
      I suspect this varies considerably from country to country. So; where are you basing your perceptions on?

      In the UK the situation is quite muddled.
      LHR; once the flagship of BAA, is now owned by Spanish company Ferrovial, who also operate GLA plus two others
      LGW is Gatwick Airport Limited, a wholly owned subsidiary of Ivy Holdco Limited, who might be part of Global Infrastructure partners (a US Corporation) that also owns EDI. However I cannot be sure because the ownership trail is confusing. Now why would that be?
      MAN is run by (Manchester Airports Group) which also run STN & EMA. MAG itself is 65% owned by ten Manchester Borough Councils, plus an Australian Investment Fund. To the outsider, it looks as if Manchester Airport is effectively owned by Manchester Council. However, when you consider Stansted, 150 miles down the road, the truth is revealed as something different.

      Luton (LTN) remains in municipal ownership, but in 1997, to fund an £80 million extension of the airport, the council issued a 30-year concession contract to a public private partnership consortium, London Luton Airport Operations Limited, a partnership of Airport Group International (AGI) and Barclays Private Equity. AGI was a specialist airport management and development company once owned by Lockheed Martin Corp. of USA.

      If you look at France, Charles de Gaulle Airport, Orly Airport and Le Bourget Airport are all part of Group ADP, who own & operate a total of 34 airports all around the world.

      Basically, everywhere I look, I see either Government investment (but at arm's length) or non-Government ownership.
      Nothing to see here; move along please.
       
      MD88CLE
      Posts: 113
      Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:16 am

      Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

      Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:12 am

      bagoldex wrote:
      flydude380 wrote:
      bagoldex wrote:

      I'd be completely fine being on camera to my clients from the moment I arrive at work until I walk out the door at the end of the day. If you're competent and exhibit good customer service skills, why the fear of it being documented?


      That's fine. Each to their own.

      Want to compliment me on my customer service? Write to my company about it, I tell my customers. Not happy with my service or company policies? Once again, write in about it.


      It's your job and you're compensated for providing exceptional customer service so I won't be writing any thank you letters but if you seriously screw up, it's vastly more effective to get it on tape for the others to see.


      I think this is a large part of the problem.

      Yes, it is too bad that people have felt the need to record things instead of bringing their concerns to the company. But from what I have seen companies also care less and less unless there is a video and threat of a social media firestorm. You can blame the people who record for starting the cycle, but now that it's started it seems to be the way things are.
       
      SurlyBonds
      Posts: 434
      Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:24 am

      Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

      Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:28 am

      hOMSaR wrote:
      georgiaame wrote:
      Pity for them they WEREN'T arrested. In America, we have this funny thing called "free speech". I know it isn't for everyone I know, but it works, and is recognized by all of our courts. They could have made a hell of a lot of money on this one, and would never have to fly Porter again in the future.


      Free speech doesn’t apply to private interactions. It only applies to what the government can and can’t regulate.


      Um, that's precisely why calling the police was an idle threat by the airline. What criminal statute are the videographers violating?
       
      sixtyseven
      Posts: 830
      Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:42 am

      Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

      Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:30 am

      wingman wrote:
      Dominion301 wrote:
      The point of my post is why do so many Americans think "freedom" is limited to them alone?


      Because we rank #4 in the "stupid" index and #2 in the "fat" index (mostly because of "freedom fries"). But don't get too excited, Canada ranks #1 in the "have identity issues so must wear flag on all luggage" ranking.


      Actually it’s so foreigners don’t think we’re American
      Stand-by for new ATIS message......
       
      SurlyBonds
      Posts: 434
      Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:24 am

      Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

      Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:32 am

      santi319 wrote:
      I was under the impression that If you tell someone thats recording you to stop and that you do not authorize your image in their pictures/videos they have to comply? Why wouldnt they blur out people on those hidden cams TV shows.


      By and large, not true. There is no generalized expectation of privacy in public places, like airplanes, particularly where you're not recording for commercial purposes or for slander.

      The blurring of faces on candid camera has more to do with these two exceptions than anything else.
       
      SurlyBonds
      Posts: 434
      Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:24 am

      Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

      Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:34 am

      Dominion301 wrote:
      santi319 wrote:
      I was under the impression that If you tell someone thats recording you to stop and that you do not authorize your image in their pictures/videos they have to comply? Why wouldnt they blur out people on those hidden cams TV shows.


      That's very true. A woman in Ottawa recently successfully sued a company for videotaping her jogging alone on pathway and then using her in a commercial without her consent. The court ruling sets a precedent that in a public place (e.g. a sidewalk, bike path, AIRPORT, etc.), you do need the permission of the individual to record them if there is the intention of public display( i.e. in an ad on TV, posted to social media, etc.), whereas if you're shooting footage of a crowd without emphasis on any particular person, then you don't need permission. The argument could be made here that passengers were directly recording individual Porter representatives without their consent and we all know where those videos would end up..


      Even assuming Canadian law applied here -- and I can't see how it would -- the cases are easily distinguishable. Recording someone for allegedly poor service isn't a commercial transaction. The pax recording the videos weren't out to make money. The folks selling jogging shoes were.
       
      SurlyBonds
      Posts: 434
      Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:24 am

      Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

      Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:40 am

      flydude380 wrote:
      This video recording has to stop!


      Why? You're in a customer-facing position. How is this any different from a secret shopper in a grocery store?

      flydude380 wrote:
      The amount of times I had to get pax to delete any pictures and recordings...


      How, by assuming the police will arrest them? All I can say is: try that with me, and I'll quote Captain Picard: "you may test that assumption at your convenience."
       
      Route66
      Posts: 203
      Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:47 pm

      Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

      Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:43 am

      Dominion301 wrote:
      georgiaame wrote:
      Pity for them they WEREN'T arrested. In America, we have this funny thing called "free speech". I know it isn't for everyone I know, but it works, and is recognized by all of our courts. They could have made a hell of a lot of money on this one, and would never have to fly Porter again in the future.


      Before the 'free speech' and 'America greatness' patriotism stuff, read the article. This incident took place in BOS.

      Do you honestly think we don't have the same free speech in Canada or any other 'western' country for that matter?

      Check out the global "freedom" index to see where the US ranks (#23) vs. Canada (tied for #6) in 2014. https://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/ ... date-3.pdf

      The point of my post is why do so many Americans think "freedom" is limited to them alone?


      I think you missed the Machiavellian nature of the post, since as you mentioned - it did occur in the US. I didn't see anything jingoistic in that statement, nor was there one word uttered about Canada or anything else that would lead one to believe that the poster thought ""freedom" is limited to them alone". Must be winter in Canada...

      Anyway, this has little to do with free speech and more to do with privacy. In this case, there isn't any.
       
      77H
      Posts: 1580
      Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

      Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

      Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:54 am

      Jayafe wrote:
      Dominion301 wrote:
      lThe court ruling sets a precedent that in a public place (e.g. a sidewalk, bike path, AIRPORT, etc.), you do need the permission of the individual to record them if there is the intention of public display...


      An airport (including terminals) is NOT a public place.


      In the United States, almost, if not every major airport is considered a public place, even the terminal. They are operated by city and/or county entities, which receive money from the taxpaying public.
      Air-side areas have now been restricted to the traveling public holding valid boarding passes, emphasis on traveling public. You can absolutely film in airport terminals. Youtube has a bunch of videos of First Amendment Auditors filming inside airport terminals.

      77H
       
      abrelosojos
      Posts: 4325
      Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

      Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

      Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:15 am

      BoeingGuy wrote:
      I’m looking at this from another perspective. If the PD employees were acting professionally, why would they be worried about being recorded. As an anology, it would be like if a VP was standing near my desk at work. I shouldn’t be doing anything that I wouldn’t want him to see.


      = Bingo.

      Saludos,
      Alex
      Live, and let live.
       
      777PHX
      Posts: 962
      Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:36 am

      Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

      Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:22 am

      georgiaame wrote:
      Pity for them they WEREN'T arrested. In America, we have this funny thing called "free speech". I know it isn't for everyone I know, but it works, and is recognized by all of our courts. They could have made a hell of a lot of money on this one, and would never have to fly Porter again in the future.


      The 1A only applies to the federal government as it pertains to their citizens. You do NOT have the right to go onto someone's private property and do whatever you want under the auspices of the 1A.

      Additionally, I'm not sure videoing someone with a camera phone would even qualify as a form of speech or expression, in the first place.

      All that aside, I hate this culture we have now where people think they can bully front line service employees by whipping out their camera as a form of leverage to get what they want because, "I'm going to get you fired!". You shove a camera in my face and you're going to be picking it up off the ground in a million pieces.
       
      User avatar
      vatveng
      Posts: 1266
      Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:49 pm

      Re: Toronto-bound Porter Airlines passengers told to delete videos or face arrest

      Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:27 am

      SheikhDjibouti wrote:
      I'm not sure about the "most airports are owned by a government or government agency" bit.
      I suspect this varies considerably from country to country. So; where are you basing your perceptions on?
      [...]
      Basically, everywhere I look, I see either Government investment (but at arm's length) or non-Government ownership.


      In the US, with just a handful of exceptions, commercial airports are owned by a State or City government (or in some cases multiple State governments; see PANYNJ) and operated by an agency of said government. Their top management in most cases is appointed by, answers to, and serves at the pleasure of one or more elected officials.

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