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jsfr
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Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:49 pm

This is great news for east Africa! utting aside the profitability versus flying code shares via europe for a second - this is a much better option for East African business people - CDG:AMS:LHR are seriously out of the way (8 hours flying due north before turning left... not to mention a connection in a mega hub Airport, yuk). Nairobi is th efinancial capital of East Africa and transiting through NBO for Tanzania, Uganda, Rwanda, etc. is a much better and easier option. I am sure there will be sufficient high yield demand for this route to make it work. KQs previous difficulties had a lot to do with external factors (Airport fire, terrorism) and still they struggle on, so give them the benefit of a doubt....
 
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PerfectGriffin
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Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:59 pm

Good luck to KQ! Competition is tough but I'm sure they've done their research to prove their is enough demand.

aerorobnz wrote:
I hope they do better than all the armchair CEOs would suggest. There are many airlines that are losing money, AF, AZ, EY, VA, SQ, CX. I'm sure most of you wouldn't be so critical of those airlines starting routes to new markets, Sometimes an airline has to break away from what it has been doing to turn things around - Let's hope that's what JFK is for KQ. Financials aside, as an airline, they have a competitive product and if they can work through any potential payload issues hopefully it can help the KQ cause.


Can't speak for the other airlines, but I've heard EY's JFK route does fairly well, better than their other American routes. I'm sure that's the case for some of those other airlines you mentioned too.
 
Gr8Circle
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Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:19 pm

aerorobnz wrote:
I hope they do better than all the armchair CEOs would suggest. Sometimes an airline has to break away from what it has been doing to turn things around


Most sensible comment so far :)
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:36 pm

jsfr wrote:
This is great news for east Africa! utting aside the profitability versus flying code shares via europe for a second - this is a much better option for East African business people - CDG:AMS:LHR are seriously out of the way (8 hours flying due north before turning left


You need to play around with Great Circle Mapper.

NBO-JFK is 7,360 statute miles in a Great Circle route

NBO-AMS-JFK is 7,784 sm.
 
evanb
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Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:30 pm

Looking at pricing, they offering business class fares at $2,600 roundtrip NBO-JFK-NBO, and $4,700 roundtrip JFK-NBO-JFK, so it's clear where they're looking to make this work. So this route is going to be highly dependent on DL-AF-KL providing a solid sales and distribution capacity for them in the US.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:36 pm

I agree with alot of people here this seems like a really bad business decision. Will probably bleed money quickly . I can't see there being enough people to pay a high premium for a N/S and with payload restrictions those people are really going to need to pay a premium.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:48 pm

sxf24 wrote:
jfk777 wrote:

Delta had plans to fly to NBO. I’m sure if they were actually starting service it’d be hailed as a brilliant decision.


Delta never decided to launch the route, airlines plan tons of stuff in the end Delta didn't do it. Also Delta has the cash to try a large gamble.
 
Bricktop
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Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:56 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
jsfr wrote:
This is great news for east Africa! utting aside the profitability versus flying code shares via europe for a second - this is a much better option for East African business people - CDG:AMS:LHR are seriously out of the way (8 hours flying due north before turning left


You need to play around with Great Circle Mapper.

NBO-JFK is 7,360 statute miles in a Great Circle route

NBO-AMS-JFK is 7,784 sm.

400 miles and a connection in AMS is hardly trivial for anyone, moreso a businessman.

Go KQ!
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:15 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
sxf24 wrote:
jfk777 wrote:

Delta had plans to fly to NBO. I’m sure if they were actually starting service it’d be hailed as a brilliant decision.


Delta never decided to launch the route, airlines plan tons of stuff in the end Delta didn't do it. Also Delta has the cash to try a large gamble.


Delta was days away from launching JFK-DKR-NBO and the US government made them cancel it due to security concerns...
 
FSDan
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Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:35 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
sxf24 wrote:


Delta never decided to launch the route, airlines plan tons of stuff in the end Delta didn't do it. Also Delta has the cash to try a large gamble.


Delta was days away from launching JFK-DKR-NBO and the US government made them cancel it due to security concerns...


:checkmark: Yep, cancelling JFK-DKR-NBO was not DL's decision...

I hope this succeeds, but we'll see. Between the UN and various business ties (with Nairobi being the leading business center for East Africa), hopefully there will be enough demand to make the nonstop work. If ever a nonstop from the U.S. to Kenya were to work, this would be the route.

Also, it would seem crazy for DL not to codeshare on this flight given KQ's presence in SkyTeam, but maybe the JV complicates things...
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MileHFL400
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Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:57 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
sxf24 wrote:


Delta never decided to launch the route, airlines plan tons of stuff in the end Delta didn't do it. Also Delta has the cash to try a large gamble.


Delta was days away from launching JFK-DKR-NBO and the US government made them cancel it due to security concerns...


It was literally one day if my memory serves me correctly
Thanks and best Regards
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usdcaguy
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Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:48 pm

evanb wrote:
Looking at pricing, they offering business class fares at $2,600 roundtrip NBO-JFK-NBO, and $4,700 roundtrip JFK-NBO-JFK, so it's clear where they're looking to make this work. So this route is going to be highly dependent on DL-AF-KL providing a solid sales and distribution capacity for them in the US.


There’s no sales agreement, no distribution capacity unless there really is a contract for DL to provide those services. KQ might be better off doing their own thing on this so they can price however they want to fill the plane and sell what they can themselves. SkyTeam affiliation helps win customers, but ultimately, they will need to hustle.
 
guyanam
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Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:56 pm

MileHFL400 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:

Delta never decided to launch the route, airlines plan tons of stuff in the end Delta didn't do it. Also Delta has the cash to try a large gamble.


Delta was days away from launching JFK-DKR-NBO and the US government made them cancel it due to security concerns...


It was literally one day if my memory serves me correctly



It was. A friend of mine was booked on it. He had already packed his bags with the announcement was made.
 
evanb
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Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:00 pm

usdcaguy wrote:
There’s no sales agreement, no distribution capacity unless there really is a contract for DL to provide those services. KQ might be better off doing their own thing on this so they can price however they want to fill the plane and sell what they can themselves. SkyTeam affiliation helps win customers, but ultimately, they will need to hustle.


But that's the point I'm making. They're going into a market where they have very little experience and expertise in terms of sales and distribution. If DL are going to assist them by taking a big chunk of the capacity and sell through a DL codeshare then they might have a better chance to make this work. If they're going to start from scratch it's going to be a real slog and if, as a result, they end up selling most of their business class seats ex-NBO for $2,500 return then there is zero chance this works.
 
berari
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Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:48 pm

Kenya Airways is expecting a 10% revenue boost in 2019 as a result of this flight to JFK.

http://www.businessinsider.com/r-kenya- ... hts-2018-1
 
berari
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Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:50 pm

RWA380 wrote:
This must have been discussed in one form or another, dozens of time, with members frantically stabbing at one point or another about this route for years. Here we are at an official announcement & now it's getting negativity? Oh well, just an observation, I thought if this ever happened (which I'm a bit skeptical still) there would be more interested support.


What you are seeing is not negativity, but skepticism about the overtly ambitious approach. Everybody's happy for KQ's ambitions, any new service from Africa to North America is welcomed.
 
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usdcaguy
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Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:20 pm

evanb wrote:
usdcaguy wrote:
There’s no sales agreement, no distribution capacity unless there really is a contract for DL to provide those services. KQ might be better off doing their own thing on this so they can price however they want to fill the plane and sell what they can themselves. SkyTeam affiliation helps win customers, but ultimately, they will need to hustle.


But that's the point I'm making. They're going into a market where they have very little experience and expertise in terms of sales and distribution. If DL are going to assist them by taking a big chunk of the capacity and sell through a DL codeshare then they might have a better chance to make this work. If they're going to start from scratch it's going to be a real slog and if, as a result, they end up selling most of their business class seats ex-NBO for $2,500 return then there is zero chance this works.


I agree. That said, I’ve always wondered why DL has not tried to do more with KQ. I know they want to protect revenue on their JV with AF/KL, but a direct flight seems like an opportunity to me to get a little more traffic into JFK (like it needs it).
 
evanb
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Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:33 pm

usdcaguy wrote:
I agree. That said, I’ve always wondered why DL has not tried to do more with KQ. I know they want to protect revenue on their JV with AF/KL, but a direct flight seems like an opportunity to me to get a little more traffic into JFK (like it needs it).


For sure. It might have been about the right aircraft for DL. The only aircraft they have which could do JFK/ATL-NBO non-stop is B77L and it's probably too much aircraft or the opportunity cost for Delta (i.e. it would have to be taken off another route) is/was too high.

At the time they originally proposed NBO with a stop in DKR they were experimenting with other one-stop African routes which they have stoped doing. At one time they were flying ATL-ACC-ROB, JFK-DKR-CPT , ATL-DKR-JNB and JFK-ACC-ABV (I can't be sure that the ABV flight was a one-stop but I think it was). They're either all non-stop now or discontinued.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:10 pm

usdcaguy wrote:
evanb wrote:
usdcaguy wrote:
There’s no sales agreement, no distribution capacity unless there really is a contract for DL to provide those services. KQ might be better off doing their own thing on this so they can price however they want to fill the plane and sell what they can themselves. SkyTeam affiliation helps win customers, but ultimately, they will need to hustle.


But that's the point I'm making. They're going into a market where they have very little experience and expertise in terms of sales and distribution. If DL are going to assist them by taking a big chunk of the capacity and sell through a DL codeshare then they might have a better chance to make this work. If they're going to start from scratch it's going to be a real slog and if, as a result, they end up selling most of their business class seats ex-NBO for $2,500 return then there is zero chance this works.


I agree. That said, I’ve always wondered why DL has not tried to do more with KQ. I know they want to protect revenue on their JV with AF/KL, but a direct flight seems like an opportunity to me to get a little more traffic into JFK (like it needs it).


Why?

US-East Africa is not a large market and the JV with KL via AMS covers all of the major East Africa destinations (and them some). Developing a deeper relationship with KQ would require a lot of effort for very little benefit.
 
guyanam
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Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:05 pm

berari wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
This must have been discussed in one form or another, dozens of time, with members frantically stabbing at one point or another about this route for years. Here we are at an official announcement & now it's getting negativity? Oh well, just an observation, I thought if this ever happened (which I'm a bit skeptical still) there would be more interested support.


What you are seeing is not negativity, but skepticism about the overtly ambitious approach. Everybody's happy for KQ's ambitions, any new service from Africa to North America is welcomed.



95k US visitors to Kenya plus ample business traffic that routes throu7gh various European hubs. Maybe daily is too optimistic but it does seem as if there is a market for this route. Especially as it also opens up other parts of East Africa. It might even stimulate more tourism, given that East Africa is well known among eco adventure travelers.
 
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eastafspot
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Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:11 am

A same day return ticket on ADD-NBO-JFK including the 2 inaugural flights for only €652 in eco or € 1697 (or €1795 directly on KQ's website) in business class.... jeez awesome!!! :bigthumbsup:

Eco fare:
https://www.skyscanner.fr/transport/vol ... me#results

Business fare:
https://www.skyscanner.fr/transport/vol ... 1811011650

It would be my very first time to the US, the worry is how painful/harsh would be the immigration and TSA, CIA and the likes for a 5h stay in Trump soil?
Very tempted to secure right now a comfy window seat for the 102 XP (enough for the Flying Blue Silver level), and more important, the great parties planned...
Fly with Air Burundi, Air Tanzania, Golden Wings Aviation, Kenya Airways, RwandAir and Uganda Airlines...Jumuiya ya Afrika mashariki !
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:17 am

eastafspot wrote:
A same day return ticket on ADD-NBO-JFK including the 2 inaugural flights for only €652 in eco or € 1697 (or €1795 directly on KQ's website) in business class.... jeez awesome!!! :bigthumbsup:

Eco fare:
https://www.skyscanner.fr/transport/vol ... me#results

Business fare:
https://www.skyscanner.fr/transport/vol ... 1811011650

It would be my very first time to the US, the worry is how painful/harsh would be the immigration and TSA, CIA and the likes for a 5h stay in Trump soil?
Very tempted to secure right now a comfy window seat for the 102 XP (enough for the Flying Blue Silver level), and more important, the great parties planned...


What nations passport do you have? If you have an EU or other major developed county passport you might be ok. Any other country, expect to be sent to a secondary interview and grilled about your short stay.
 
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eastafspot
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Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:56 am

usflyer msp wrote:

What nations passport do you have? If you have an EU or other major developed county passport you might be ok. Any other country, expect to be sent to a secondary interview and grilled about your short stay.


Thanks for the quick answer!
I've got a dual citizenship French and Rwandan, will they ask to look at both passport and all the itinerary and question for hours (more than 3h lol) ??
What do you mean by " you might be ok"...?
Fly with Air Burundi, Air Tanzania, Golden Wings Aviation, Kenya Airways, RwandAir and Uganda Airlines...Jumuiya ya Afrika mashariki !
 
berari
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Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:19 am

eastafspot wrote:
A same day return ticket on ADD-NBO-JFK including the 2 inaugural flights for only €652 in eco or € 1697 (or €1795 directly on KQ's website) in business class.... jeez awesome!!! :bigthumbsup:

Eco fare:
https://www.skyscanner.fr/transport/vol ... me#results

Business fare:
https://www.skyscanner.fr/transport/vol ... 1811011650

It would be my very first time to the US, the worry is how painful/harsh would be the immigration and TSA, CIA and the likes for a 5h stay in Trump soil?
Very tempted to secure right now a comfy window seat for the 102 XP (enough for the Flying Blue Silver level), and more important, the great parties planned...


Folks in ADD will certainly see/enjoy discounts on KQ to the USA, in the same way they see it via TK, EK vis a vis ET. We also see this on KQ flights to Europe despite the backtracking that's involved.

What I see so far with KQ is that they have departure and landings to/from JFK that are not harmonized with African destination connections. That flight from ADD to JFK via NBO requires a 10 hour layover at NBO, for example. Entebbe, Dar Es Salaam, Johannesburg all see better connection options via other existing European and Middle Eastern airlines. Perhaps it's still early for KQ to adjust its schedules, but so far it looks like it's more targeted at USA-> Kenya traffic.
 
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RWA380
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Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:25 am

guyanam wrote:
berari wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
This must have been discussed in one form or another, dozens of time, with members frantically stabbing at one point or another about this route for years. Here we are at an official announcement & now it's getting negativity? Oh well, just an observation, I thought if this ever happened (which I'm a bit skeptical still) there would be more interested support.


What you are seeing is not negativity, but skepticism about the overtly ambitious approach. Everybody's happy for KQ's ambitions, any new service from Africa to North America is welcomed.



95k US visitors to Kenya plus ample business traffic that routes through various European hubs. Maybe daily is too optimistic but it does seem as if there is a market for this route. Especially as it also opens up other parts of East Africa. It might even stimulate more tourism, given that East Africa is well known among eco adventure travelers.


One company I worked for in San Francisco, we handled the air itineraries for a mountain climbing company in Seattle called Mountain Madness, we booked a lot of people flying to JRO & of course we booked tons of NW/KL over AMS, so I can see how a route like this could provide a huge advantage to East Africa from the USA,

However we rarely booked premium travel, as the land portions were real expensive & most were rugged types that were prepared to be uncomfortable & pay for it, so why not fly coach? I'm sure quick & easy connections will be available to Zanzibar, Arusha & the myriad of other tourist & adventure destinations.

But for anywhere but NYC origin pax, this is going to be as many connections from the left coast as going over AMS, PDX-AMS-NBO or PDX-JFK-NBO. I hope KQ can get some premium cabin sales all year round to help balance the financials of this ULH flight. At least over AMS one can get to JRO n/s instead of connecting in NBO.

I too am skeptical of this route being able to perform both ways non-stop with a meaningful payload, but KQ thinks it can be done, the very best of luck to them. When or if anyone reads prior threads on this topic, I remember the "spirit" of the threads being more excited than skeptical, just an observation & not so much a critique.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
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ubeema
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Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:51 am

eastafspot wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

What nations passport do you have? If you have an EU or other major developed county passport you might be ok. Any other country, expect to be sent to a secondary interview and grilled about your short stay.


Thanks for the quick answer!
I've got a dual citizenship French and Rwandan, will they ask to look at both passport and all the itinerary and question for hours (more than 3h lol) ??
What do you mean by " you might be ok"...?

Plan for the unexpected when you travel on foreign soil. Admission to any country is at the discretion of the border agent (visa is not a guarantee). So after 15+ hours travel just be courteous and honest when you speak with the officer. Not sure if JFK is equipped with kiosk yet, but even with a kiosk any additional questioning will be in person. French or any visa waiver country is always a plus, but remember you will be a French coming from Kenya, that fact may or may not raise a flag.
 
AAvgeek744
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Re: Kenya Airways to announce US route on Wednesday January 10

Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:15 am

af773atmsp wrote:
Definitely MSP. I heard from someone in 2008 that they were looking at NBO-CDG-MSP.

But seriously, I'll guess JFK.


No way will they ever fly to MSP. I can't see daily to JFK. 3-4x weekly maybe, but this looks like a failure before it ever happens.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:11 pm

eastafspot wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

What nations passport do you have? If you have an EU or other major developed county passport you might be ok. Any other country, expect to be sent to a secondary interview and grilled about your short stay.


Thanks for the quick answer!
I've got a dual citizenship French and Rwandan, will they ask to look at both passport and all the itinerary and question for hours (more than 3h lol) ??
What do you mean by " you might be ok"...?


You should definitely use your French passport - then you should be able to use a kiosk and avoid the interaction with CBP staff (who will be very skeptical of your itinerary). Since this would be your first visit to the US and you are coming Africa you still might get flagged but much less likely with the French passport.
 
BENAir01
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Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:09 pm

eastafspot wrote:
A same day return ticket on ADD-NBO-JFK including the 2 inaugural flights for only €652 in eco or € 1697 (or €1795 directly on KQ's website) in business class.... jeez awesome!!! :bigthumbsup:

Eco fare:
https://www.skyscanner.fr/transport/vol ... me#results

Business fare:
https://www.skyscanner.fr/transport/vol ... 1811011650

It would be my very first time to the US, the worry is how painful/harsh would be the immigration and TSA, CIA and the likes for a 5h stay in Trump soil?
Very tempted to secure right now a comfy window seat for the 102 XP (enough for the Flying Blue Silver level), and more important, the great parties planned...

If it will be your first time to the US, you may want to spend a few days or a week in New York. Jus an idea.
Why is flying so expensive? And why is flying well so much more?
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:20 pm

RWA380 wrote:
guyanam wrote:
berari wrote:

What you are seeing is not negativity, but skepticism about the overtly ambitious approach. Everybody's happy for KQ's ambitions, any new service from Africa to North America is welcomed.



95k US visitors to Kenya plus ample business traffic that routes through various European hubs. Maybe daily is too optimistic but it does seem as if there is a market for this route. Especially as it also opens up other parts of East Africa. It might even stimulate more tourism, given that East Africa is well known among eco adventure travelers.


One company I worked for in San Francisco, we handled the air itineraries for a mountain climbing company in Seattle called Mountain Madness, we booked a lot of people flying to JRO & of course we booked tons of NW/KL over AMS, so I can see how a route like this could provide a huge advantage to East Africa from the USA,

However we rarely booked premium travel, as the land portions were real expensive & most were rugged types that were prepared to be uncomfortable & pay for it, so why not fly coach? I'm sure quick & easy connections will be available to Zanzibar, Arusha & the myriad of other tourist & adventure destinations.

But for anywhere but NYC origin pax, this is going to be as many connections from the left coast as going over AMS, PDX-AMS-NBO or PDX-JFK-NBO. I hope KQ can get some premium cabin sales all year round to help balance the financials of this ULH flight. At least over AMS one can get to JRO n/s instead of connecting in NBO.

I too am skeptical of this route being able to perform both ways non-stop with a meaningful payload, but KQ thinks it can be done, the very best of luck to them. When or if anyone reads prior threads on this topic, I remember the "spirit" of the threads being more excited than skeptical, just an observation & not so much a critique.


That is a well-reasoned post.

The scissor hub through AMS works in the other direction, too: travelers from NBO connecting in AMS have the full array of KL non-stops to a long list of North American destinations.

So, the proposed KQ offering is great for NBO-NYC O&D: now let's see if there's enough of it, and willing to pay a sufficient premium for ULH non-stops.
 
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usdcaguy
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Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:44 am

usflyer msp wrote:
usdcaguy wrote:
evanb wrote:

But that's the point I'm making. They're going into a market where they have very little experience and expertise in terms of sales and distribution. If DL are going to assist them by taking a big chunk of the capacity and sell through a DL codeshare then they might have a better chance to make this work. If they're going to start from scratch it's going to be a real slog and if, as a result, they end up selling most of their business class seats ex-NBO for $2,500 return then there is zero chance this works.


I agree. That said, I’ve always wondered why DL has not tried to do more with KQ. I know they want to protect revenue on their JV with AF/KL, but a direct flight seems like an opportunity to me to get a little more traffic into JFK (like it needs it).


Why?

US-East Africa is not a large market and the JV with KL via AMS covers all of the major East Africa destinations (and them some). Developing a deeper relationship with KQ would require a lot of effort for very little benefit.


A codeshare relationship is easy to do and doesn’t cost much. There would be some benefit there, if KQ were willing to pay the passthrough rate for flights to and from JFK. KL does sell tickets on KQ and v.v., so I don’t see why putting some passengers on the direct flight would be a big deal, especially since KQ is in SkyTeam and will often be cheaper anyway.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:04 pm

This is going to bleed money. Not sure this is a good time for them. They should have tried one stop first, and seen how that went. There are many places on the way even Spain or Portugal if they could get the approvals are pretty much on the way.

Cool plane to see at JFK, but should have been one stop. They have all of sky teams connection power is there best shot. Fingers crossed I just really hope this doesn't bleed more then they can handle.
 
MileHFL400
Posts: 849
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 11:42 am

Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:34 pm

With this in mind i am under the assumption that the 2 787s are coming back from Oman.
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
berari
Topic Author
Posts: 923
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:47 pm

Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:04 am

usdcaguy wrote:
A codeshare relationship is easy to do and doesn’t cost much. There would be some benefit there, if KQ were willing to pay the passthrough rate for flights to and from JFK. KL does sell tickets on KQ and v.v., so I don’t see why putting some passengers on the direct flight would be a big deal, especially since KQ is in SkyTeam and will often be cheaper anyway.


It could become an issue for KL if it erodes into its existing service into AMS. Why support the sale of tickets on the NBO-JFK-3rd city at the expense of its existing NBO-AMS-3rd city offering? The same goes for DL which has a JV on transatlantic with AF/KL.

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
This is going to bleed money. Not sure this is a good time for them. They should have tried one stop first, and seen how that went. There are many places on the way even Spain or Portugal if they could get the approvals are pretty much on the way.

Cool plane to see at JFK, but should have been one stop. They have all of sky teams connection power is there best shot. Fingers crossed I just really hope this doesn't bleed more then they can handle.


Forward bookings could lead them to decide on changes to the planned service. KQ has a good reputation in Africa and could get in on a one stop service via West Africa, possibly even filling in where DL backed out off because it didn't make economic sense to them.

MileHFL400 wrote:
With this in mind i am under the assumption that the 2 787s are coming back from Oman.


I was also thinking this. The NBO-JFK rotation will require capacity that the airline does not have. The wet lease that Oman Air signed was three year agreement that began in 2016.
 
kq747
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 3:59 pm

Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:03 pm

berari wrote:
usdcaguy wrote:
A codeshare relationship is easy to do and doesn’t cost much. There would be some benefit there, if KQ were willing to pay the passthrough rate for flights to and from JFK. KL does sell tickets on KQ and v.v., so I don’t see why putting some passengers on the direct flight would be a big deal, especially since KQ is in SkyTeam and will often be cheaper anyway.


It could become an issue for KL if it erodes into its existing service into AMS. Why support the sale of tickets on the NBO-JFK-3rd city at the expense of its existing NBO-AMS-3rd city offering? The same goes for DL which has a JV on transatlantic with AF/KL.

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
This is going to bleed money. Not sure this is a good time for them. They should have tried one stop first, and seen how that went. There are many places on the way even Spain or Portugal if they could get the approvals are pretty much on the way.

Cool plane to see at JFK, but should have been one stop. They have all of sky teams connection power is there best shot. Fingers crossed I just really hope this doesn't bleed more then they can handle.


Forward bookings could lead them to decide on changes to the planned service. KQ has a good reputation in Africa and could get in on a one stop service via West Africa, possibly even filling in where DL backed out off because it didn't make economic sense to them.

MileHFL400 wrote:
With this in mind i am under the assumption that the 2 787s are coming back from Oman.


I was also thinking this. The NBO-JFK rotation will require capacity that the airline does not have. The wet lease that Oman Air signed was three year agreement that began in 2016.


I too was wondering about this. All of their routes except BKK-CAN can be done with one 787. I'm guessing they would have switch 787 for 737 on DXB/JNB/BOM or get their wet leased a/c back. Curious to see how this plays out...
 
sxf24
Posts: 1123
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:22 pm

Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:37 pm

People are forgetting that KQ has a JV with KL, who also has an ownership stake and a seat on the board of directors. KL has very good insight into US-East Africa traffic, probably more so than any other airline. This decision was made with KL input and approval.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 4069
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:15 pm

sxf24 wrote:
People are forgetting that KQ has a JV with KL, who also has an ownership stake and a seat on the board of directors. KL has very good insight into US-East Africa traffic, probably more so than any other airline. This decision was made with KL input and approval.


KLM only has one KQ board seat and a 7.8% holding in the airline - not enough to block something most of the other board members agree to it. The Kenyan government and the KQ management effectively control 7 of the 12 board seats and the government most likely sees non-stop flights to NYC as being in the national interest and most likely greenlighted the plan over the objections of KL.
 
MileHFL400
Posts: 849
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 11:42 am

Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:34 pm

kq747 wrote:
berari wrote:
usdcaguy wrote:
A codeshare relationship is easy to do and doesn’t cost much. There would be some benefit there, if KQ were willing to pay the passthrough rate for flights to and from JFK. KL does sell tickets on KQ and v.v., so I don’t see why putting some passengers on the direct flight would be a big deal, especially since KQ is in SkyTeam and will often be cheaper anyway.


It could become an issue for KL if it erodes into its existing service into AMS. Why support the sale of tickets on the NBO-JFK-3rd city at the expense of its existing NBO-AMS-3rd city offering? The same goes for DL which has a JV on transatlantic with AF/KL.

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
This is going to bleed money. Not sure this is a good time for them. They should have tried one stop first, and seen how that went. There are many places on the way even Spain or Portugal if they could get the approvals are pretty much on the way.

Cool plane to see at JFK, but should have been one stop. They have all of sky teams connection power is there best shot. Fingers crossed I just really hope this doesn't bleed more then they can handle.


Forward bookings could lead them to decide on changes to the planned service. KQ has a good reputation in Africa and could get in on a one stop service via West Africa, possibly even filling in where DL backed out off because it didn't make economic sense to them.

MileHFL400 wrote:
With this in mind i am under the assumption that the 2 787s are coming back from Oman.


I was also thinking this. The NBO-JFK rotation will require capacity that the airline does not have. The wet lease that Oman Air signed was three year agreement that began in 2016.


I too was wondering about this. All of their routes except BKK-CAN can be done with one 787. I'm guessing they would have switch 787 for 737 on DXB/JNB/BOM or get their wet leased a/c back. Curious to see how this plays out...


I think they also want to increase capacity on some intra African routes
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
sxf24
Posts: 1123
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:22 pm

Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:38 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
sxf24 wrote:
People are forgetting that KQ has a JV with KL, who also has an ownership stake and a seat on the board of directors. KL has very good insight into US-East Africa traffic, probably more so than any other airline. This decision was made with KL input and approval.


KLM only has one KQ board seat and a 7.8% holding in the airline - not enough to block something most of the other board members agree to it. The Kenyan government and the KQ management effectively control 7 of the 12 board seats and the government most likely sees non-stop flights to NYC as being in the national interest and most likely greenlighted the plan over the objections of KL.


The commercial leadership is seconded from KL and KL still has a big input in route planning and revenue management. The government certainly wants the flight, but trying to paint the decision as blind/random/ignorant ignores the fact KQ has some of the best insight into US-NBO-East Africa demand and pricing via its relationship with KL.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 4069
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:12 pm

I doubt it. I highly doubt KL can share data gained from its TATL JV with AF/DL with a third party such as KQ. The KQ/KL JV only covers Europe and Africa not North America.
 
LAXLHR
Posts: 470
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:07 am

Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:16 pm

berari wrote:
Kenya Airways is going to announce its first route to the US tomorrow according to the article below:

National carrier Kenya Airways (KQ) plans to start marketing direct flights to the United States this week. The airline will begin selling tickets on the new route tomorrow, whereby travellers will have an opportunity to pre-book the inaugural and subsequent flights slated for later in the year.
Read more at: https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/busines ... us-flights

https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/busines ... us-flights



The route may or may not make or look like it could make money, but many forget there are still limited options to Africa overall (yes load up EU and M.E. flights and its still limited). 1.2Bn on the continent!

But beyond the operations of the airline, this is a greatly needed advertisement for the country. It will stimulate business, with any potential loses offset against the gains in foreign investment/tourism etc. Flag carrier! Many on a.net tend to look at these routes the wrong way...there is a bigger picture.

Someone mentioned how long the plane sits at JFK? It becomes a billboard for the country, period....stimulates a thought. You do not think the Ethiopian jet at LAX does this?....oh its seen by people who never give Ethiopia a thought!.
BA IB ET JM EA GK PA VS AA SN HP CO WN NW DL UA AC US LH LX OS JL QF QR WY MH CX U2 EK 9W UK TP VY VN LO OK OZ UL SQ LA KL

707 727 L10 732-NG 741 742 743 744 752 753 762 763 772 773 787 DC8 DC9 DC10 M80 M11 100 AB3 310 318 319 320 321 330s 340s 350 380
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4323
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:57 pm

sxf24 wrote:
The commercial leadership is seconded from KL and KL still has a big input in route planning and revenue management. The government certainly wants the flight, but trying to paint the decision as blind/random/ignorant ignores the fact KQ has some of the best insight into US-NBO-East Africa demand and pricing via its relationship with KL.


= This has not been true for quite some time. If anything, commercial leadership is all ex-LO guys.

Saludos,
Alex
Live, and let live.
 
jeffrey1970
Posts: 1499
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2001 1:41 am

Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:17 pm

I am so excited. I am going to save up money to fly on Kenya.
God bless through Jesus, Jeff
 
twicearound
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:08 am

usflyer msp wrote:
eastafspot wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

What nations passport do you have? If you have an EU or other major developed county passport you might be ok. Any other country, expect to be sent to a secondary interview and grilled about your short stay.


Thanks for the quick answer!
I've got a dual citizenship French and Rwandan, will they ask to look at both passport and all the itinerary and question for hours (more than 3h lol) ??
What do you mean by " you might be ok"...?


You should definitely use your French passport - then you should be able to use a kiosk and avoid the interaction with CBP staff (who will be very skeptical of your itinerary). Since this would be your first visit to the US and you are coming Africa you still might get flagged but much less likely with the French passport.


First time visitors regardless of nationality are NOT able to use any automated processing. New ESTA or Visa processing as well as fingerprinting and interviewing are done in person.
 
iadadd
Posts: 307
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 10:16 pm

Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:11 am

ET will definitely be looking at this carefully and will potentially start its own JFK-ADD or EWR-ADD nonstop that leaves at around 11 AM and arrives in Addis at 7 AM the next day and connect well to its much larger network. The return technical stop at DUB is not much of an inconvenience, and therefore KQ will not have much of an advantage. ET is very slick and tend to announce routes within 4 months of inception.
 
berari
Topic Author
Posts: 923
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:47 pm

Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:14 am

kq747 wrote:
I too was wondering about this. All of their routes except BKK-CAN can be done with one 787. I'm guessing they would have switch 787 for 737 on DXB/JNB/BOM or get their wet leased a/c back. Curious to see how this plays out...


Those are three competitive routes and they also have high demand. Why cut capacity where they need them?

sxf24 wrote:
People are forgetting that KQ has a JV with KL, who also has an ownership stake and a seat on the board of directors. KL has very good insight into US-East Africa traffic, probably more so than any other airline. This decision was made with KL input and approval.


The JV with KL is between Amsterdam/Paris and Africa. It's very specific. KL/AF has a separate JV with other Skyteam members on the trans-Atlantic flights to which KQ is not party. While KL's input is there, its approval is no longer required. KL's share dwindled from 26% to 7.8% in the latest restructuring, where banks have two seats on the board, the government has three and KL only has one. IIRC KL had two seats in the past and certainly called the shots. The latest restructuring has turned a lot around and the power has shifted towards the Kenyan government.

sxf24 wrote:
The commercial leadership is seconded from KL and KL still has a big input in route planning and revenue management. The government certainly wants the flight, but trying to paint the decision as blind/random/ignorant ignores the fact KQ has some of the best insight into US-NBO-East Africa demand and pricing via its relationship with KL.


The Kenyan Government has the most seats on the board now. In case you are not in tune, they are also looking to renegotiate the KQ-KL partnership (or has that already happened yet?) because it was deemed to be tilted towards KL's benefit all along. In the past, under KL's control, KQ dropped all of its flights to Europe and only kept flying to Amsterdam and London. Over time, it opened routes to Rome and Paris, other AF/KL/Skyteam hubs with only the latter sticking.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3777
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:26 am

jfk777 wrote:
The last few years have not been great for Kenya Airways and now they want to fly 15 hours nonstop daily to New York with a 787-8 ? I applaud the ambition, this sounds like a financial disaster waiting to happen. KA should start 3 times weekly and build up the route as demand expands. The other question is what has KA been doing with its fleet that all of a sudden it has two 787 "available" to fly to JFK.

KA sold 25% of itself years ago to KLM (before merging with AF), now AF/KLM and Delta with are in Skyteam and have a huge JV. Wouldn't KA be better flying to CDG, LHR and AMS for its traffic to the USA ?


Please use the correct code for Kenya Airways KQ. Cathay Dragon is KA code.
 
sxf24
Posts: 1123
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:22 pm

Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:58 am

Well, I guess the failure of the route is a forgone conclusion. There’s no way KQ could ever know how much traffic there is between North America and Africa and at what yields.
 
kq747
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 3:59 pm

Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:18 pm

berari wrote:
kq747 wrote:
I too was wondering about this. All of their routes except BKK-CAN can be done with one 787. I'm guessing they would have switch 787 for 737 on DXB/JNB/BOM or get their wet leased a/c back. Curious to see how this plays out...


Those are three competitive routes and they also have high demand. Why cut capacity where they need them?


Simply because they can be operated by 737's while all other routes such as CDG/LHR/AMS/BKK and now JFK need their 787's which they only have 7 in operation by my count. Two would be needed for JFK and BKK each to operate daily and LHR/CDG/AMS can be done with one each and I'm not seeing a lot free time to operate JNB/BOM/DXB as well unless they get the 2 frames back from Omanair. My post was simply me thinking out loud...

This ties in with my guess that the JFK route is mistake for the airline at this time given its fleet and financial situation.
 
LJ
Posts: 5463
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

Re: Kenya Airways announces daily non-stop flights to JFK

Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:53 pm

berari wrote:
It could become an issue for KL if it erodes into its existing service into AMS. Why support the sale of tickets on the NBO-JFK-3rd city at the expense of its existing NBO-AMS-3rd city offering? The same goes for DL which has a JV on transatlantic with AF/KL.


You're assuming that this is not AF/KLs intend. KL cannot grow that much as AMS is at maximum capacity. If they were to codeshare on NBO-JFK they can earn money on JFK-NBO whilst at the same time creating some room to sell seats on AMS-NBO and AMS-JFK to someone else. The same applies to DL which can't grow at AMS as well. Yes, there is CDG, but that flight alread has high loads, it will be difficult to grow.

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