Can someone please verify the following. I was told a rumor that Etihad oficially ended the partnership with Air Seychelles and Air Serbia as of last Sunday.
Supposedly, those companies were given a 3-months notice. The second part of this rumor is that all A330s cargo aircraft got grounded too.
Thanks.

Well thats strange, there 777F dont fly so much either!

That would be quite a blow for Air Serbia. They even moved their Operations Control to Abu Dhabi.

krvaricp wrote:

The second part of this rumor is that all A330s cargo aircraft got grounded too.
Thanks.

Unless they have been re-registered: Looking at Flightradar24, none of their 5 A332F seems to have flown since New Years Eve. So it seems to be correct

holcakker wrote:

That would be quite a blow for Air Serbia. They even moved their Operations Control to Abu Dhabi.

There are two departments which have been in Abu Dhabi since the beginning: revenue management and scheduling. Both should be back in Belgrade early next year.

Etihad's contract with JU is expiring next year. Don't see why they would cancel it now.

Someone83 wrote:

krvaricp wrote:

The second part of this rumor is that all A330s cargo aircraft got grounded too.
Thanks.

Unless they have been re-registered: Looking at Flightradar24, none of their 5 A332F seems to have flown since New Years Eve. So it seems to be correct

Rumours from the Gulf suggest EY has/will be grounding their A330/A340 fleet.

Quite sad to see EY doing bad. There investments in other airlines seem do be doing rather badly. Air Berlin fell apart and stopped operations while Jet Airways is more comfortable with AF, DL, and KL now it seems.

A340 are all gone and many A330 is coming of lease soon and will be leaving. Leehman have been written about cheep A330-200 being offered from 2018 and on.

with a really good product, its a shame they are all over the place. I have some concerns about their longevity...

by738 wrote:

with a really good product, its a shame they are all over the place. I have some concerns about their longevity...

Not so sure about that. A close friend of mine flew them in October and and dreadful flights both ways and would never go with them again (there was a thread about their service here a few months ago) and general opinion was they are very hit and miss. Certainly I think Qatar have stolen a match on the other two and upped the game in all areas in recent years. But EY seem to be backing away from a lot of deals and partnerships in recent months so you have to wonder what's behind it.

Besides 9W, has any of the investments being accretive in value to EY? Does anyone have a source where EY talks about these?

Saludos,
Alex

Between EK, EY, QR, and TK, there was not enough room for all them. I guess EY had to the be the first loser here. I am not surprised it happened to one of them, and really not surprised it happened to EY first. I really think only EK and TK offer enough differentiation to be in strong positions. At least QR has right-sized aircraft for the operations, that should keep them afloat.

EY's demise wasn't because of EK, QR or TK... it was due to gross mismanagement which still seems to be going on today. Their HQ is a mess, people are fleeing like rats on a sinking ship. Those that stayed behind are clueless on how to rebuild the airline because they were the type of worker Hogan loved, submissive and short-sighted.

PerfectGriffin wrote:

Someone83 wrote:

krvaricp wrote:

The second part of this rumor is that all A330s cargo aircraft got grounded too.
Thanks.

Unless they have been re-registered: Looking at Flightradar24, none of their 5 A332F seems to have flown since New Years Eve. So it seems to be correct

Rumours from the Gulf suggest EY has/will be grounding their A330/A340 fleet.

The A340 fleet, either owned directly by EY or through other branches of the government, was retired in October. That Hogan strategy is turning out a lot like the Hunter strategy that brought down Swissair and the SAirGroup.

As for Air Serbia, I wonder if the political winds will permit the reunification of all of the airlines of the former Yugoslavia, or at least the functional ones (Adria, Croatia, and Air Serbia) into a good regional airline (and that route to New York) the way Aegean is run, with rationalization around the ATR-72, CRJ9, A319/A320, and likely that single A332 plying BEG-JFK 3x weekly and maybe even ZAG-JFK 2x weekly. (Adria and Croatia were both profitable in 2016, while Air Serbia had a narrow loss of about $1M on revenue of nearly $386 million in 2016). As for management, this is where Turkish Airlines could come in and take over management from EY.

aemoreira1981 wrote:

PerfectGriffin wrote:

Someone83 wrote:

Unless they have been re-registered: Looking at Flightradar24, none of their 5 A332F seems to have flown since New Years Eve. So it seems to be correct

Rumours from the Gulf suggest EY has/will be grounding their A330/A340 fleet.

The A340 fleet, either owned directly by EY or through other branches of the government, was retired in October. That Hogan strategy is turning out a lot like the Hunter strategy that brought down Swissair and the SAirGroup.

As for Air Serbia, I wonder if the political winds will permit the reunification of all of the airlines of the former Yugoslavia, or at least the functional ones (Adria, Croatia, and Air Serbia) into a good regional airline (and that route to New York) the way Aegean is run, with rationalization around the ATR-72, CRJ9, A319/A320, and likely that single A332 plying BEG-JFK 3x weekly and maybe even ZAG-JFK 2x weekly. (Adria and Croatia were both profitable in 2016, while Air Serbia had a narrow loss of about $1M on revenue of nearly $386 million in 2016). As for management, this is where Turkish Airlines could come in and take over management from EY.

Air Serbia was profitable the same way OU and JP were: creative accounting. JP sold its logo to the government while OU sold its LHR slots to DL.
The best thing is for these three airlines to exist independently as a single airline would never work. Air Serbia is the only one that actually has a strategy while the other two seem to be surviving from one season to the next. Don't forget the JP was bought by 4K so I don't see why they would merge with other airlines. They seem to be re-building JP's LJU hub with many new destinations announced.

As for the JFK route, it has improved a lot in recent months, both in terms of loads and yields. It will be increased to 6 weekly this summer season. Truth be told, EY walking out of JU might not be the worst thing especially since they invested no funds, it all came from government aid.

aemoreira1981 wrote:

As for Air Serbia, I wonder if the political winds will permit the reunification of all of the airlines of the former Yugoslavia, or at least the functional ones (Adria, Croatia, and Air Serbia) into a good regional airline

We'll sooner see Airbus buy Boeing .

Politics and regional squabbles aside, the three carriers are in many respects quite different - despite having started from the same mold and with the same sort of people. Focus, strategy, route structure, schedules, pay scales, corporate cultures... all have drifted significantly apart since the early 90s.

The fleets as mismatched as well: the only type common to all three is the A32F. What's more, even its prevalence is different: JP has only a handful, with most of the haul done by CRJs; at OU, they're evenly matched with the Q400, while at JU they're the dominant type.

Harmonizing all of this is a huge undertaking from an economic and operational perspective alone - well beyond the organizational capability of either Slovenia, Croatia or Serbia.

As for Air Serbia, I wonder if the political winds will permit the reunification of all of the airlines of the former Yugoslavia, or at least the functional ones (Adria, Croatia, and Air Serbia) into a good regional airline (and that route to New York) the way Aegean is run, with rationalization around the ATR-72, CRJ9, A319/A320, and likely that single A332 plying BEG-JFK 3x weekly and maybe even ZAG-JFK 2x weekly. (Adria and Croatia were both profitable in 2016, while Air Serbia had a narrow loss of about $1M on revenue of nearly $386 million in 2016). As for management, this is where Turkish Airlines could come in and take over management from EY.

[/quote]
No the politics wont allow for it.... not anytime soon (in our life times) anyhow.

Air Serbia was profitable the same way OU and JP were: creative accounting. JP sold its logo to the government while OU sold its LHR slots to DL.
The best thing is for these three airlines to exist independently as a single airline would never work. Air Serbia is the only one that actually has a strategy while the other two seem to be surviving from one season to the next. Don't forget the JP was bought by 4K so I don't see why they would merge with other airlines. They seem to be re-building JP's LJU hub with many new destinations announced.

As for the JFK route, it has improved a lot in recent months, both in terms of loads and yields. It will be increased to 6 weekly this summer season. Truth be told, EY walking out of JU might not be the worst thing especially since they invested no funds, it all came from government aid.

[/quote]

Air Serbia they only airline in the region with a strategy? Seems like they are a chook with their head (the head being Etihad) cut off. Cutting frequencies everywhere and introducing a low cost / hybrid model yet still charging full service prices. Etihad going.... could be a good thing but they will lose access to cheap aircraft and this is what was their biggest advantage of being a part of Etihad was. Their entire airbus fleet is leased from Etihad... what happens to these planes if Etihad pulls out or if the airline fails?

'Air Serbia they only airline in the region with a strategy? Seems like they are a chook with their head (the head being Etihad) cut off. Cutting frequencies everywhere and introducing a low cost / hybrid model yet still charging full service prices. Etihad going.... could be a good thing but they will lose access to cheap aircraft and this is what was their biggest advantage of being a part of Etihad was. Their entire airbus fleet is leased from Etihad... what happens to these planes if Etihad pulls out or if the airline fails?'

Despite transitioning to a lowcost model (which I think is not a smart move) it's still committed to building a hub at BEG. Even their new flights to GVA are conveniently timed so as to offer swift connections onto their regional and Middle Eastern network. For example, both OU and JP have struggled to make LHR work. The latter suspended flights years ago while the former is in the process of doing so. Meanwhile, LHR remains one of Air Serbia's top performing destinations operated nine times per week during summer.
Both JP and OU still have a long way before catching up with JU when it comes to the number of destinations offered. I mean OU doesn't even fly to some major destinations like TXL, FCO or SVO.

As for the fleet, mind you, Etihad leased out two A319s to JU (YU-API and YU-APJ) and their leasing costs are higher compared to the rest of the fleet. The A330 didn't come from Etihad but rather from Jet Airways. So no, the entire fleet is not leased from Etihad, only 2 out of 11 Airbus aircraft came from EY.

Has anyone heard anything regarding their arrangements/investments with Air Seychelles?

Doesn't Etihad mean "together"? Kind of goes against their name.

Seriously, though, Etihad is struggling for one simple reason - there is no passion behind it. Unlike Emirates, it was created simply because someone "wanted myself an airline" for prestige or family dominance. I read somewhere that His Royal Highness Mohammad bin Rashid Al-Maktoum, may Allah prolong his days, refused to sell his cherished Emirates to his uncle and father-in-law (it's complicated) His Royal Majesty Khalifa bin Zayed Al-Nahyan, may Allah prolong his days, too, and the latter got angry and founded his own airline, Etihad. They did the same phallometry with their yachts for years. Trying to compete with an airline like Emirates seating just 70km from it is a fantasy. And definitely not how an airline should be run. Does anyone know, was Etihad ever profitable?

Blerg wrote:

I mean OU doesn't even fly to some major destinations like TXL, FCO or SVO.

Berlin had been considered, but loads were judged insufficient to warrant using own metal. Even Eurowings flies TXL-ZAG only three times a week. Same thing with SVO; Aeroflot has that one covered and is rarely full. OU does operate LED during the summer season, which has proved to be quite a popular flight.

FCO has been operated for ages now - 15+ years in fact. Also (in terms of passenger numbers) consistently one of the carrier's top performing routes.

BREECH wrote:

Doesn't Etihad mean "together"? Kind of goes against their name.

Seriously, though, Etihad is struggling for one simple reason - there is no passion behind it. Unlike Emirates, it was created simply because someone "wanted myself an airline" for prestige or family dominance. I read somewhere that His Royal Highness Mohammad bin Rashid Al-Maktoum, may Allah prolong his days, refused to sell his cherished Emirates to his uncle and father-in-law (it's complicated) His Royal Majesty Khalifa bin Zayed Al-Nahyan, may Allah prolong his days, too, and the latter got angry and founded his own airline, Etihad. They did the same phallometry with their yachts for years. Trying to compete with an airline like Emirates seating just 70km from it is a fantasy. And definitely not how an airline should be run. Does anyone know, was Etihad ever profitable?

They said they made $103m in 2015. Not sure if it's an true though...

'FCO has been operated for ages now - 15+ years in fact. Also (in terms of passenger numbers) consistently one of the carrier's top performing routes.'

Yes but it's worth mentioning the route is operated with a stop. Same as ATH for example.

Someone83 wrote:

krvaricp wrote:

The second part of this rumor is that all A330s cargo aircraft got grounded too.
Thanks.

Unless they have been re-registered: Looking at Flightradar24, none of their 5 A332F seems to have flown since New Years Eve. So it seems to be correct

A6-DCB made a flight yesterday according to FR24

Blerg wrote:

'FCO has been operated for ages now - 15+ years in fact. Also (in terms of passenger numbers) consistently one of the carrier's top performing routes.'

Yes but it's worth mentioning the route is operated with a stop. Same as ATH for example.

Why is that relevant? FCO is still served daily; even more so, since in addition to passengers from ZAG, the flight also picks up passengers from SPU (as well as DBV during the summer), which is why it is so popular. Even in the middle of winter, flights are fairly full to full, so much so that every now and then the regular Q400 is swapped for an A319.

The flight had been operated direct from ZAG 10 or so years ago, but routed via SPU it was found to be a gold mine.

TripleDelta wrote:

Blerg wrote:

'FCO has been operated for ages now - 15+ years in fact. Also (in terms of passenger numbers) consistently one of the carrier's top performing routes.'

Yes but it's worth mentioning the route is operated with a stop. Same as ATH for example.

Why is that relevant? FCO is still served daily; even more so, since in addition to passengers from ZAG, the flight also picks up passengers from SPU (as well as DBV during the summer), which is why it is so popular. Even in the middle of winter, flights are fairly full to full, so much so that every now and then the regular Q400 is swapped for an A319.

The flight had been operated direct from ZAG 10 or so years ago, but routed via SPU it was found to be a gold mine.

Yes but a nuisance for all those boarding in ZAG. It would have been much wiser to operate: ZAG-FCO-SPU-FCO-ZAG.

I guess there aren't enough passengers from Zagreb to make such a routing financially sustainable.
I for one am happy JU no longer operates in such a way. Nothing worse than being forced to sit in a plane for 40 minutes.

"Even their new flights to GVA are conveniently timed so as to offer swift connections onto their regional and Middle Eastern network."
I doubt their 2 flights are meant to feed their BEG hub and GVA certainly doesn't need any more connections to the Middle East. In fact these 2 flights are probably a reaction to the cancellation of the 3 U2 flights as from S18 and are really meant to cater for the Serbian ethnic population in and around Geneva. Honestly, when JU decided to increase their ZRH flights from 14 to 17 and 2 flights to GVA, it did not make much sense: these additional 5 flight should either all have gone to to ZRH making it total of 19 weekly or all to GVA, making it 14/5. I think 2 flights a week is simply not enough to make it a profitable operation while all flight to ZRH would have given them a stronger presence there.

This is mostly ethnic traffic, not really sensitive to frequencies. The bulk of the Balkan immigration is Switzerland is in the German part (the French part attracting more immigration from the the Iberic peninsula). If it had not been Air Serbia replacing EZY it would have been Wizz Air or Swiss.

'GVA certainly doesn't need any more connections to the Middle East.'

If JU was to follow your logic then they wouldn't be after connecting passengers in any other major airport such as AMS, CDG, DUS, CPH... since all of those airports have good links to the Balkans and the Middle East.

'Honestly, when JU decided to increase their ZRH flights from 14 to 17 and 2 flights to GVA, it did not make much sense'

Air Serbia's double daily flights to Zurich are full to the last seat and ZRH is the airline's second most profitable destination. These three extra flights are not new. They were operated in the past just around the Christmas holidays. To me they make a lot of sense.
The reason why they are not adding more flights to Geneva is because it's a new market but also because they do not have enough aircraft. After all, look at Aegean. Most of their new routes were started with two weekly flights and over time they added frequencies as demand grew. Air Serbia can do the same if there is need.

Finally, don't forget that this area of Europe has a lot of links to both BEG and INI. In addition to Geneva and Zurich, BEG is also linked to Basel and Bern.

Don't get me wrong, JU is very welcome at GVA, I was just wondering if they are right to split the additional 5 flights between ZRH and GVA. I don't think however you can compare GVA with SPL,CDG,DUS,CPH as all these airports are much larger and serve much more populated areas. I don't agree with you example of Aegean either: they simply picked up a market which had been abandoned by OA which used to have daily flights to GVA ( beside SR and later LX ). They also mainly serve the Swiss tourist market ( lots of island connections ) while I don't think there is a huge Swiss tourist demand for Serbia at the moment. The existing demand for Kosovo is already well covered as is the tourist demand for the non Serbian coastal destinations.
But anyway, welcome to JU and I hope they'll do better that U2 and LX, both of which withdrew or are about to withdraw from this route.

The Belgrade route lives on ethnic traffic. The vast majority of the Immigration from the Balkans in Switzerland in in the German part. The immigration in the French part is mostly from Portugal / Spain. Hence massive traffic flows to Porto / Lisbon, more than what Zurich drives in terms of O&D.

Even though it has been asked twice now in this thread but no one has actually answered the question regarding Etihad and any update on it's current commitment with Air Seychelles?

PerfectGriffin wrote:

Someone83 wrote:

krvaricp wrote:

The second part of this rumor is that all A330s cargo aircraft got grounded too.
Thanks.

Unless they have been re-registered: Looking at Flightradar24, none of their 5 A332F seems to have flown since New Years Eve. So it seems to be correct

Rumours from the Gulf suggest EY has/will be grounding their A330/A340 fleet.

A lot of completely unsourced and unsubstantiated rumours flying about.

Can someone please confirm if any of this is true? And for the rumour starters - where are you getting your "information"?

Abu Dhabi and Dubai need to realize their emirates cannot support two major carriers. A merger between EY and EK would be good for both. A formidable airline that can basically serves two cities pretty close together. If anything, for EK, having two hubs would fatten their bank account.

aerokiwi wrote:

PerfectGriffin wrote:

Someone83 wrote:

Unless they have been re-registered: Looking at Flightradar24, none of their 5 A332F seems to have flown since New Years Eve. So it seems to be correct

Rumours from the Gulf suggest EY has/will be grounding their A330/A340 fleet.

A lot of completely unsourced and unsubstantiated rumours flying about.

Can someone please confirm if any of this is true? And for the rumour starters - where are you getting your "information"?

You know the score those that post them usually don't give any information to backup there so called rumours it's usually something they imagine whilst there having their wet dream at night.

What I always find strange is when they say 'I heard' from who and where do the rumours originally start, I pride myself in telling the truth to the best that I can and would never dream of saying something or starting a so called rumour unless I could confirm it in one way or another

Has anyone seen the episode of Family Guy where the gang went in search in a quest to find the location for where all the jokes first originated, that episode reminds me so much of the rumours on here and I too feel like going on a quest to find out lol.

hynithuchi wrote:

I don't agree with you example of Aegean either: they simply picked up a market which had been abandoned by OA which used to have daily flights to GVA ( beside SR and later LX ). They also mainly serve the Swiss tourist market"
But anyway, welcome to JU and I hope they'll do better that U2 and LX, both of which withdrew or are about to withdraw from this route.

This is wrong. A3 launched their flight in April 2013 with 3 weekly flights years after Olympus ceased flying to GVA. They are now 7/7 and it is nice to know that the traffic is well divided between greek and swiss demand. To be more precise, during holidays the demand is mainly on the swiss side but the other days of the year, there is a strong premium greek originating demand.

Concerning BEG, LX launched first and the flight, if not profitable, had a nice LF. U2 launched the same year which forced LX to stop. I think JU has its chances if they are able to catch a good part of O&D, stimulate a little bit the demand ( even though it is Serbia we are talking about ) and catch connections to Eastern Europe.

kottok wrote:

hynithuchi wrote:

I don't agree with you example of Aegean either: they simply picked up a market which had been abandoned by OA which used to have daily flights to GVA ( beside SR and later LX ). They also mainly serve the Swiss tourist market"
But anyway, welcome to JU and I hope they'll do better that U2 and LX, both of which withdrew or are about to withdraw from this route.

This is wrong. A3 launched their flight in April 2013 with 3 weekly flights years after Olympus ceased flying to GVA. They are now 7/7 and it is nice to know that the traffic is well divided between greek and swiss demand. To be more precise, during holidays the demand is mainly on the swiss side but the other days of the year, there is a strong premium greek originating demand.

Concerning BEG, LX launched first and the flight, if not profitable, had a nice LF. U2 launched the same year which forced LX to stop. I think JU has its chances if they are able to catch a good part of O&D, stimulate a little bit the demand ( even though it is Serbia we are talking about ) and catch connections to Eastern Europe.

What do you mean by 'even though it is Serbia we are talking about?'
Mind you, on top of a large diaspora, the number of Swiss tourists in Serbia has grown by 12% in the first eleven months of 2018. In addition to that, BEG-ZRH has officially become the busiest route outperforming even BEG-TGD and BEG-TIV.

The divorce proceeding between Air Seychelles and Etihad seems to have started but Etihad is still very much in charge at the moment. So much for consolidating everything as now Air Seychelles will have to recreate the department and infrastructures which were transferred to Etihad in Abu Dhabi. I don't know about the planes which are subleased from Etihad though.

Kottok "I think JU has its chances if they are able to catch a good part of O&D, stimulate a little bit the demand ( even though it is Serbia we are talking about ) and catch connections to Eastern Europe."
Seems JU has closed their flights to GVA again, so it looks as it won't happen. But don't blame me, I'm sure they didn't read my post..

hynithuchi wrote:

Seems JU has closed their flights to GVA again, so it looks as it won't happen. But don't blame me, I'm sure they didn't read my post..

This route would be better suited to Wizzair. IIRC when Swiss started and briefly had the route to themselves it performed not too badly

Air Serbia will still fly to GVA but most likely from the winter timetable. They retired two B733 while receiving record number of requests for summer charters. They will have to shift one A319 to run charter flights in addition to two B733.

Looks like Etihad are trying to stem the cash bleeding.

hma350 wrote:

The divorce proceeding between Air Seychelles and Etihad seems to have started but Etihad is still very much in charge at the moment. So much for consolidating everything as now Air Seychelles will have to recreate the department and infrastructures which were transferred to Etihad in Abu Dhabi. I don't know about the planes which are subleased from Etihad though.

As it seems that your the only person who has contributed any information regarding the pending divorce of Air Seychelles from Etihad I appreciate it if could kindly keep us updated as so far all we have read about is Serbia

Perhaps the Air Seychelles divorce from Etihad may deserve it's own thread once more information is made available.