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MSNflyer
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:06 am

Brad Livingston, the director of Dane County Regional Airport (MSN) announced he is retiring at the end of August.

One interesting tidbit from the Wisconsin State Journal article about his retirement announcement (https://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local ... 53a6c.html):

“By the end of the year more destinations will be announced, more non-stop flights,” Livingston said.

“The airport is well positioned for the future,” he said. “The airlines are very happy with this market, and one airline executive told me recently, ‘It’s beyond good.’ ”



MSN just added flights to PHL and SFO, so ... where to next? (and on which airline(s)?)
 
seanpmassey
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:10 am

MSNflyer wrote:
Brad Livingston, the director of Dane County Regional Airport (MSN) announced he is retiring at the end of August.

One interesting tidbit from the Wisconsin State Journal article about his retirement announcement (https://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local ... 53a6c.html):

“By the end of the year more destinations will be announced, more non-stop flights,” Livingston said.

“The airport is well positioned for the future,” he said. “The airlines are very happy with this market, and one airline executive told me recently, ‘It’s beyond good.’ ”



MSN just added flights to PHL and SFO, so ... where to next? (and on which airline(s)?)


Let the guessing games begin.

Looking at the map, the major destinations not served are:
Seattle (AS, DL)
PHX (AA)
IAH (UA)
BOS (DL, B6)
LAX

I haven't looked at PDEW numbers yet, so I'm not going to speculate on which routes I think will be added. (Although I'd like to see a direct flight between MSN and RDU...I'd drive from Appleton for that when work needs me to go down there)

I'm not sure if B6 or AS would enter the Madison market, but it would be interesting if they did. I also don't see WN entering because they serve Milwaukee just down the road.
 
jplatts
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:50 pm

There was an article titled "Southwest wants to be 'Milwaukee's hometown airline' as Midwest Express revival looms" that was published on the Milwaukee Business Journal's website yesterday, and that article can be found at https://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/news/2018/06/12/southwest-wants-to-be-milwaukees-hometown-airline.html. While this article is behind the paywall, the summary said that "When Ryan Green, Southwest's vice president and chief marketing officer, addressed the Greater Milwaukee Committee Monday, he made it clear that the airline has prioritized the Milwaukee market and hopes to continue its regional dominance."

WN could bring back MKE-DAL nonstop service in order to better compete against the new Midwest Express if the new Midwest Express adds nonstop service to either DFW or DAL out of MKE. The old Midwest Airlines also had nonstop mainline service to EWR, OMA, and PHL from MKE, and WN could also add nonstop service to these 3 destinations out of MKE in order to better compete against the new Midwest Express.

CLT, CMH, DSM, BDL, IND, SDF, PIT, and RDU were all served nonstop from MKE on the old Midwest Connect on regional jets with 50 or fewer seats, but WN does not currently serve any of these 8 destinations nonstop from MKE. Could any of these 8 markets support nonstop service out of MKE on WN, or are these routes better suited to airlines with regional jets?
 
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MKE22
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:42 pm

MKE-SAN was just announced by F9, seasonal starting August 14th.

https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/fr ... -san-diego
 
rj777
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:51 pm

jplatts wrote:
There was an article titled "Southwest wants to be 'Milwaukee's hometown airline' as Midwest Express revival looms" that was published on the Milwaukee Business Journal's website yesterday, and that article can be found at https://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/news/2018/06/12/southwest-wants-to-be-milwaukees-hometown-airline.html. While this article is behind the paywall, the summary said that "When Ryan Green, Southwest's vice president and chief marketing officer, addressed the Greater Milwaukee Committee Monday, he made it clear that the airline has prioritized the Milwaukee market and hopes to continue its regional dominance."

WN could bring back MKE-DAL nonstop service in order to better compete against the new Midwest Express if the new Midwest Express adds nonstop service to either DFW or DAL out of MKE. The old Midwest Airlines also had nonstop mainline service to EWR, OMA, and PHL from MKE, and WN could also add nonstop service to these 3 destinations out of MKE in order to better compete against the new Midwest Express.

CLT, CMH, DSM, BDL, IND, SDF, PIT, and RDU were all served nonstop from MKE on the old Midwest Connect on regional jets with 50 or fewer seats, but WN does not currently serve any of these 8 destinations nonstop from MKE. Could any of these 8 markets support nonstop service out of MKE on WN, or are these routes better suited to airlines with regional jets?


Did I miss something? Last I heard the Midwest revival was still years away!
 
khinstorff
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:16 pm

It’s interesting that AA doesn’t serve PHX from MSN. Both UA and DL allow easy connectivity throughout the West using at least one their western hubs. Is the “snowbird” traffic not enough in the winters to make it work?
 
mspeaumsn
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:45 am

Also, surprised there are no seasonal flights between MSN-TPA/ RSW. I can vaguely recall Madtown having some back in the NWA and Midwest days.
 
mspeaumsn
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:43 pm

A new airline and two new routes out of MSN will be announced next week, according to the official Dane County Regional Airport Facebook page.
 
MSNflyer
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:44 pm

I guess Mr. Livingston was serious -- MSN Airport just announced on twitter: "We’re announcing a NEW airline AND 2 NON-STOP flights next week! Any guesses where?"
https://twitter.com/MSN_Airport/status/ ... 0315086848
 
masonh2479
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:26 pm

MSNflyer wrote:
I guess Mr. Livingston was serious -- MSN Airport just announced on twitter: "We’re announcing a NEW airline AND 2 NON-STOP flights next week! Any guesses where?"
https://twitter.com/MSN_Airport/status/ ... 0315086848

My guess is Southwest to Midway, don’t have a clue about the other destination though.
 
jplatts
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:42 pm

masonh2479 wrote:
My guess is Southwest to Midway, don’t have a clue about the other destination though.


I am unsure if WN would ever serve MDW nonstop from MSN since MDW is only 124 mi from MSN. The MSN-MDW nonstop route is shorter than any of WN's current nonstop routes. The shortest WN nonstop route is currently the MDW-GRR nonstop route, and MDW is 137 mi from GRR. It seems to me that WN would not probably operate any nonstop route that short within the contiguous U.S., even though WN is considering nonstop interisland routes in Hawaii that are shorter than the MDW-GRR nonstop route in the contiguous U.S.

If WN plans on starting service out of MSN, WN serving STL nonstop from MSN is a possibility since WN has nonstop service out of STL to destinations that are not served nonstop from MDW and since STL is far enough from MSN to support STL-MSN nonstop service.
 
msycajun
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:02 pm

MSNflyer wrote:
I guess Mr. Livingston was serious -- MSN Airport just announced on twitter: "We’re announcing a NEW airline AND 2 NON-STOP flights next week! Any guesses where?"
https://twitter.com/MSN_Airport/status/ ... 0315086848


I wonder if this could be NK. They recently added GSO and AVL and RIC before that, so the trend is definitely to go after smaller markets that are not far from larger markets. FLL and MCO would be my bet to start, outside chance of LAS or BWI.
 
seanpmassey
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:19 pm

I don't see WN coming into Madison as they also offer service just down the road at MKE. I also thought that WN liked to enter a market with a bit bigger of a bang than one or two new routes.

I'm assuming that the new airline is providing both non-stops, and they are serving new destinations.

Options at the top of my list are:
AS - SEA, LAX
B6 - BOS, FLL
 
Jshank83
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:24 pm

Since it is Tuesday I would say it isn't WN, their update is Thursday.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:34 pm

seanpmassey wrote:
I don't see WN coming into Madison as they also offer service just down the road at MKE. I also thought that WN liked to enter a market with a bit bigger of a bang than one or two new routes.

I'm assuming that the new airline is providing both non-stops, and they are serving new destinations.

Options at the top of my list are:
AS - SEA, LAX
B6 - BOS, FLL


It's got to be Allegiant, Allegiant announces routes on Tuesdays and last year they announced routes on almost the exact same day.
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AAlaxfan
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:15 pm

seanpmassey wrote:
I don't see WN coming into Madison as they also offer service just down the road at MKE. I also thought that WN liked to enter a market with a bit bigger of a bang than one or two new routes.

I'm assuming that the new airline is providing both non-stops, and they are serving new destinations.

Options at the top of my list are:
AS - SEA, LAX
B6 - BOS, FLL

I don't see B6 going into MSN without going into MKE first, and we know they're not going to MKE with ORD 90 miles away. I can see AS starting MSN, with SEA and PDX as the destinations or SEA, SFO/SJC/OAK. Can't see LAX without going LAX-MKE first.
It's possible for WN going to DEN and OAK, but again MDW and MKE are nearby.
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nmdrdh787
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:01 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
seanpmassey wrote:
I don't see WN coming into Madison as they also offer service just down the road at MKE. I also thought that WN liked to enter a market with a bit bigger of a bang than one or two new routes.

I'm assuming that the new airline is providing both non-stops, and they are serving new destinations.

Options at the top of my list are:
AS - SEA, LAX
B6 - BOS, FLL


It's got to be Allegiant, Allegiant announces routes on Tuesdays and last year they announced routes on almost the exact same day.


Leaning this to LAS and SFB. Maybe AZA or PIE.
AAlaxfan wrote:
seanpmassey wrote:
I don't see WN coming into Madison as they also offer service just down the road at MKE. I also thought that WN liked to enter a market with a bit bigger of a bang than one or two new routes.

I'm assuming that the new airline is providing both non-stops, and they are serving new destinations.

Options at the top of my list are:
AS - SEA, LAX
B6 - BOS, FLL

I don't see B6 going into MSN without going into MKE first, and we know they're not going to MKE with ORD 90 miles away. I can see AS starting MSN, with SEA and PDX as the destinations or SEA, SFO/SJC/OAK. Can't see LAX without going LAX-MKE first.
It's possible for WN going to DEN and OAK, but again MDW and MKE are nearby.


WN started CVG with MDW and BWI. Now just adding DEN and PHX is seasonal. So it could be them.

MSN-BOS could work. Remember Epic is a medical oriented company, so there could be some connections with the medical industry in Boston. Same goes for JFK. It would be surprising that they open it before MKE.

IMO, UA to SFO came out of nowhere to me, so I could see B6 being the surprise.

Still leaking G4, then WN.
 
jplatts
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:51 am

Will NK start service out of MKE in 2019? NK has recently expanded into other former FL markets, including CMH and RIC. If NK starts service out of MKE, I could see NK serving DFW, FLL, RSW, LAS, MYR, MCO, and TPA nonstop from MKE.
 
seanpmassey
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:02 am

Sounds like the new service is Sun Country flying to TPA and RSW two days per week. Service starts at the end of September.

http://www.wkow.com/story/38511211/2018 ... al-airport
 
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mke717spotter
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:56 pm

According to the Apple Vacations website, the winter charter flights this upcoming winter will be flown by Miami Air operated by TUI Airlines. SJD also replaces ZIH as a destination.

http://www.applevacations.com/flight-sc ... milwaukee/
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knope2001
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:39 am

Haven't posted a traffic update in quite some time -- not as much time to spend online these days.


Milwaukee -- available through July
4,239,041 total passengers
+3.4% YTD
+5.9% month of July

Notable from July was Southwest’s year-over-year increase of 10.0%. Encouraging to see growth by the biggest airline, not just growth by the ULCC segment which can be flaky from season to season.

Other Wisconsin stats are through May, total passengers
Madison
788,311 +4.9% YTD
Appleton
263,298 +16.5%
Green Bay
245,752 +12.1%
Wausau/CWA
92,839 -1.4%
La Crosse
78,604 +9.9%
Eau Claire
18,891 -3.0%
Rhinelander
17,332 +1.8%
 
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wiggy
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:30 am

what about oshkosh in't
 
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knope2001
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Aug 30, 2018 5:18 pm

wiggy wrote:
what about oshkosh in't


Hasn't had scheduled passenger service in 15-ish years since it fell out of the EAS program. Most of what would be the natural OSH market uses ATW to the north or MKE to the south.
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:33 am

knope2001 wrote:
Haven't posted a traffic update in quite some time -- not as much time to spend online these days
Wisconsin stats are through May, total passengers...

Appleton
263,298 +16.5%
Green Bay
245,752 +12.1%


Just speaking about these two close competitors...
For the first time I flew out of ATW recently (I'm consistently a GRB flyer, as its closer to where I live). As a first timer I was surprised how small Appleton's terminal footprint is compared to Green Bay - yet they're pushing more traffic through their facility than Green Bay so far this year. I suppose Green Bay is a little overbuilt for its traffic... not a bad thing - and I see ATW is busy expanding or upgrading - certainly a lot of construction in the terminal it seemed to me.

It wouldn't surprise me to learn that Appleton/Fox Valley passengers as a whole are more affluent/ have more high-paying job opportunities than those from Green Bay & the counties north and west, but I have no data for that. Perhaps that accounts for the greater rate of growth at ATW- aside from population figures, which, *by my rough calculations*, are pretty close between the two areas.

The 4 largest counties (Outagamie, Winebago, Waupaca and Calumet) which ATW would largely draw from account for 457,000 people, whereas the rough footprint of GRB (5 largest counties in the neighborhood: Brown, Manitowoc, Shawano, Oconto, Door), accounts for 426,000.

https://www.wisconsin-demographics.com/ ... population

I'll be interested in seeing these two airports stats going forward.

Sure would be nice if they were ever to combine forces and build a new airport serving both communities... may never happen as both, for the foreseeable future, have a lot invested in their own fields, all of 25 miles apart.
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:43 pm

American is adding MSN-PHX Jan-March next year.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1403487
"*AA MSN-PHX JAN 0>0.8[0] FEB 0>1.0[0] MAR 0>1.0[0]"

Is that a completely new route or and extension to an existing route?
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:27 pm

Re: MSN-PHX..
I see now, in the title of enrilia's thread : it is a new route.
Congrats Madison!
 
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mke717spotter
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:54 pm

yeogeo wrote:
American is adding MSN-PHX Jan-March next year.

It will be seasonal and operated by CR9.
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yeogeo
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:06 pm

Schedule for new MSN-PHX route:

"Phoenix – Madison eff 06JAN19 1 daily CRJ900 (Mesa Airlines)
AA5988 PHX1940 – 2355MSN CR9 D
AA6004 MSN0720 – 0955PHX CR9 D"

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... e-20180913

Haven't yet seen an end date for this seasonal route.
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:18 pm

Delta adds a daily LSE<>DTW route from 2 March 2019:

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... e-20181012

Should think it would do quite well - whether its seasonal or not... we'll see. I wouldn't think so, but Delta might not agree.
 
masonh2479
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:50 pm

yeogeo wrote:
Delta adds a daily LSE<>DTW route from 2 March 2019:

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... e-20181012

Should think it would do quite well - whether its seasonal or not... we'll see. I wouldn't think so, but Delta might not agree.

Good news for LSE, even if service is on a CRJ. Speaking of Delta, I wish they would add ATW-SLC as a better gateway to the west, to compete with United’s DEN service, and to make getting to the park city area easier. If service did come I would think it would either be on an CRJ7 or 9. My family flies to Salt Lake City twice a year and having this non stop would be awesome.
 
77H
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:15 am

UA just announced LAX-MSN today beginning 31 March. Looks like it will be operated by E75 equipment.

SFO made a lot of sense but it’s surprising UA would launch LAX before IAH or IAD. Either way, good to see UA continue to grow LAX and MSN for that matter.

77H
 
jplatts
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:15 am

Will UA ever add MKE-SFO or MKE-IAD nonstop service? UA already has nonstop service to both SFO and IAD from MCI, STL, MSP, ORD, IND, DTW, CVG, and CLE in the Midwest, and the lack of UA nonstop service to its SFO and IAD hubs from MKE is one of the biggest holes in the Midwest.

WN is also currently the only airline to have nonstop service to the San Francisco Bay Area or the Baltimore/Washington region from MKE, and WN only currently operates MKE-SFO nonstop service on a seasonal basis.

I am surprised that UA hasn't yet added MKE-SFO nonstop service, especially with UA having recently added nonstop service to SFO from MSN, CVG, and DTW in the Midwest.
 
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MKE22
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:56 pm

jplatts wrote:
Will UA ever add MKE-SFO or MKE-IAD nonstop service? UA already has nonstop service to both SFO and IAD from MCI, STL, MSP, ORD, IND, DTW, CVG, and CLE in the Midwest, and the lack of UA nonstop service to its SFO and IAD hubs from MKE is one of the biggest holes in the Midwest.

WN is also currently the only airline to have nonstop service to the San Francisco Bay Area or the Baltimore/Washington region from MKE, and WN only currently operates MKE-SFO nonstop service on a seasonal basis.

I am surprised that UA hasn't yet added MKE-SFO nonstop service, especially with UA having recently added nonstop service to SFO from MSN, CVG, and DTW in the Midwest.


IAD maybe not, but UA just added MSN-LAX so who knows...
 
UWPAviation
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:58 pm

MKE22 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
Will UA ever add MKE-SFO or MKE-IAD nonstop service? UA already has nonstop service to both SFO and IAD from MCI, STL, MSP, ORD, IND, DTW, CVG, and CLE in the Midwest, and the lack of UA nonstop service to its SFO and IAD hubs from MKE is one of the biggest holes in the Midwest.

WN is also currently the only airline to have nonstop service to the San Francisco Bay Area or the Baltimore/Washington region from MKE, and WN only currently operates MKE-SFO nonstop service on a seasonal basis.

I am surprised that UA hasn't yet added MKE-SFO nonstop service, especially with UA having recently added nonstop service to SFO from MSN, CVG, and DTW in the Midwest.


IAD maybe not, but UA just added MSN-LAX so who knows...


I am still shocked by the lack of California service out of MKE, especially to the bay area. UA could easily to a daily on a 319. It would not shock me if Alaska stepped in and did it, especially with the success they are having out of MKE.

Regards to LAX, I would love for WN to add a second flight. Or for Delta to add a seasonal flight.

In my opinion, IAD is not needed. WN already has daily to DCA and BWI. If anything I would like to see another flight to DCA. Maybe AA could start service.
 
jreuschl
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:39 pm

Any idea how WN's CLE and BNA flights are doing since starting from MKE?

Sent from my SM-G892U using Tapatalk
 
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mke717spotter
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:24 pm

UWPAviation wrote:

Regards to LAX, I would love for WN to add a second flight.

I'm not sure if it still is, but it had been 2x daily during the summer.
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knope2001
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:11 pm

jreuschl wrote:
Any idea how WN's CLE and BNA flights are doing since starting from MKE?

Sent from my SM-G892U using Tapatalk


Nashville has done great from the start in terms of loads and continues to do so. Except for January (108.6 passengers / 150.3 seats) every month has been between about 83% and 91% full. Overall since the flight began it has averaged 85.4% full, with 128.7 passengers for 150.7 seats on average. Because Nashville is a (de facto) hub for Southwest it’s not a surprise this route would do at least reasonably well since they can route a lot of connecting flow through there.

Cleveland is a very different sort of market. Neither MKE nor CLE is a Southwest de facto hub. This is primarily a point-to-point market they entered to win the notable business traffic between the two cities. And they entered the route with the intention of booting United’s twice-daily CRJ services, but United held on for more than half a year. For the first seven months Southwest’s MKE-CLE-MKE only averaged about 68 onboard passengers per flight, about 46% full. Two notable things led to the weakness: (a) United didn’t surrender the route to Southwest in these months, and (b) in an effort to put pressure on United Southwest ran an aggressive schedule featuring more 175-seat 737-800’s and an unusually broad complement of weekend flights for a business market in the dead of winter. The first two months without United were June and July, and Southwest averaged 105.6 passengers out of 149.7 average seats per flight, a load factor of 70.6%. Looking to future schedules Southwest is mostly the (better-suited) 143-seat 73G and has pared back weekend flights,

As always, load factor is incomplete when assessing the performance of a particular market because it doesn’t tell much about aspects of yield such as fare levels and traffic composition. It’s pretty clear MKE-CLE has a sizable business traffic component – not only was United flying it years after CLE was de-hubbed but United fought for it even after Southwest started flying it. When it comes to fares to both CLE and BNA, anytime/business select fares are about $200 and leisure/WGA around $70. At those fare levels the portion of business travelers can make a huge difference. A Nashville flight at 95% full with 15 business fare passengers generates about the same revenue as a Cleveland flight only 62% full but with 40 business fare passengers. Now we don’t know specifically how many high-fare business passengers Southwest averages to Cleveland but it’s a good bet there are more than a few, and that’s what led Southwest to pick this obscure point-to-point route during a time when Southwest wasn’t adding routes anyplace else.

mke717spotter wrote:
UWPAviation wrote:

Regards to LAX, I would love for WN to add a second flight.

I'm not sure if it still is, but it had been 2x daily during the summer.


Up until a couple years ago they ran LAX, SFO and SEA all twice-daily in summer. Each are only 1x in summer now, thought SAN has joined the summer schedule and SEA has AS and DL in the market. LAX and SFO seem underserved relative to traffic demand.
 
rj777
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Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:48 pm

From Milwaukee Business Journal- Looks like the new International Terminal Project is a go....
https://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/n ... j=84449091
Key text from the article:
"According to airport spokesman Harold Mester, Milwaukee County is currently soliciting qualifications statements, with the deadline for receipt of such statements set for 4 p.m. on Oct. 26. County documents indicate that a pre-proposal conference was held on Oct. 10 at the airport.
Mester said 65 people attended the Oct. 10 meeting.
"The pre-proposal conference covered the project overview/scope, current conditions, timetable and submission requirements," Mester said in an email. "At the end of the meeting, attendees did a walk-through of the existing Concourse E."
Interviews of consultants who have sent in applications will occur on or after Nov. 6, with the project's design awarded to the chosen company on or after Nov. 14, according to documents. After the county selects the firm for the terminal's design, a consultant agreement and notice to proceed on the project could be finalized as early as Dec. 14.
Documents show that most of 2019 would be spent on schematic design and design development, with construction documents created late in the year. That would pave the way for construction to begin in early 2020, likely concluding in mid-2021."
 
User avatar
knope2001
Posts: 3031
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:54 am

Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:28 pm

Milwaukee -- available through October
6,000,065 total passengers
+3.3% YTD
+5.3% month of October

Other Wisconsin stats are through September, total passengers using T100 DoT stats
Madison
1,543,743 +9.8% YTD
Appleton
501,910 +23.2%
Green Bay
471,243 +12.1%
Wausau/CWA
182,401 +4.3%
La Crosse
78,604 +11.3%
Rhinelander
37.036 +5.2%
Eau Claire
35,672 +1.8%
 
Planeboy17
Posts: 449
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:18 am

Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Dec 29, 2018 12:54 am

Hi, does anyone know what the Caribbean charter schedule will be and what carriers will be used?
Those are some impressive pax numbers, especially MSN.
 
User avatar
knope2001
Posts: 3031
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:54 am

Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:50 am

Planeboy17 wrote:
Hi, does anyone know what the Caribbean charter schedule will be and what carriers will be used?


MKE international beach flying this season:

Cancun -- 8x/week
3x Saturdays, 1x Sunday/Monday/Wednesday/Thursday/Friday

Cozumel 1x/week
Monday

Los Cabos 1x/week
Friday

Montego Bay 2x/week
Tuesday, Saturday

Puerto Vallarta 2x/week
Sunday, Thursday

Punta Cana 4x/week
Sunday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Saturday

All flights this season are Miami Air operated by TUI Airlines Belgium, except for Delta and Southwest each operating a Saturday Cancun flight during the spring peak.
 
jplatts
Posts: 3797
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:11 pm

AA could add nonstop service to its LAX, MIA, LGA, and DCA hubs from MKE. While WN already serves LAX and DCA nonstop from MKE, there is currently no nonstop competition on MKE-LAX and MKE-DCA. WN is also currently the only airline to serve the Miami/Fort Lauderdale market nonstop from MKE with seasonal MKE-FLL nonstop service.

The top destinations traveled to from MDW that aren't served nonstop from MKE on WN include AUS, CMH, DAL, MSP, EWR, PIT, PHL, and RDU. It is easier to get to MKE than to MDW from many of the northern Chicago suburbs in rush-hour traffic, even though MDW is closer than MKE is to most of the northern Chicago suburbs. WN could add MKE-AUS, MKE-CMH, MKE-EWR, MKE-PHL, MKE-PIT, and MKE-RDU nonstop service, and WN has a customer base in Greater Milwaukee, the Racine/Kenosha area, the northern Chicago suburbs, and other parts of Wisconsin to support additional service out of MKE.

While DL already serves most of its hubs plus its BOS focus city nonstop from MKE, DL could add MKE-LAX and MKE-JFK nonstop service. UA could also add nonstop service to its SFO and IAD hubs from MKE.
 
phxtravelboy
Posts: 338
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:42 am

Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:06 pm

jplatts wrote:
AA could add nonstop service to its LAX, MIA, LGA, and DCA hubs from MKE. While WN already serves LAX and DCA nonstop from MKE, there is currently no nonstop competition on MKE-LAX and MKE-DCA. WN is also currently the only airline to serve the Miami/Fort Lauderdale market nonstop from MKE with seasonal MKE-FLL nonstop service.

The top destinations traveled to from MDW that aren't served nonstop from MKE on WN include AUS, CMH, DAL, MSP, EWR, PIT, PHL, and RDU. It is easier to get to MKE than to MDW from many of the northern Chicago suburbs in rush-hour traffic, even though MDW is closer than MKE is to most of the northern Chicago suburbs. WN could add MKE-AUS, MKE-CMH, MKE-EWR, MKE-PHL, MKE-PIT, and MKE-RDU nonstop service, and WN has a customer base in Greater Milwaukee, the Racine/Kenosha area, the northern Chicago suburbs, and other parts of Wisconsin to support additional service out of MKE.

While DL already serves most of its hubs plus its BOS focus city nonstop from MKE, DL could add MKE-LAX and MKE-JFK nonstop service. UA could also add nonstop service to its SFO and IAD hubs from MKE.


Don't hold your breath for AA to add any of that service from MKE. AA's attitude to the MKE market is basically "I GUESS we'll fly there, but as long as we do, we'll provide the absolute bare minimum, crappy service". AA needs to just drop MKE altogether and force everyone to drive to ORD for much better service; that seems to be their endgoal with the MKE market anyway. The majority of their flights to MKE are on regional jets, and of those, the majority are on their smallest possible, crappy 50 seaters. They only offer 6 mainline flights a day and those are either on their oldest possible birds, the MD80s, or their smallest possible birds, the A319.

As far as the hub flying goes it is truly PATHETIC!!

MIA: They fly there from basically every other major or mid size market in the east/midwest. Even GRR is gaining service before MKE.

LGA: NYC has been MKE's #1 or #2 market for years, yet AA refuses to fly there from MKE. Again, they serve MANY other major/mid size markets in the east/midwest.

DCA: MKE, along with Houston, are the ONLY 2 cities that are in DCA's top 50 O/D markets, that AA doesn't fly to nonstop. Houston is VERY well covered by other carries in the market. MKE has 2 lousy WN nonstops per day.

LAX: AA, DL, and UA all provide non hub flying from LAX to various major/mid size markets all across the country. None of them flies to MKE. AA announced nonstop SDF service even. MKE has 1 lousy nonstop per day on WN.

So as you can see, the MKE market to AA is just not even remotely close to important. I live in PHX, but am from WI originally, so I fly home quite often. Due to AA's pathetic service, I usually fly nonstop on WN PHX-MKE and try to avoid AA as I refuse to support a carrier that offers crappy service.
 
jplatts
Posts: 3797
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:53 pm

phxtravelboy wrote:
Don't hold your breath for AA to add any of that service from MKE. AA's attitude to the MKE market is basically "I GUESS we'll fly there, but as long as we do, we'll provide the absolute bare minimum, crappy service". AA needs to just drop MKE altogether and force everyone to drive to ORD for much better service; that seems to be their endgoal with the MKE market anyway. The majority of their flights to MKE are on regional jets, and of those, the majority are on their smallest possible, crappy 50 seaters. They only offer 6 mainline flights a day and those are either on their oldest possible birds, the MD80s, or their smallest possible birds, the A319.

As far as the hub flying goes it is truly PATHETIC!!

So as you can see, the MKE market to AA is just not even remotely close to important. I live in PHX, but am from WI originally, so I fly home quite often. Due to AA's pathetic service, I usually fly nonstop on WN PHX-MKE and try to avoid AA as I refuse to support a carrier that offers crappy service.


AA will never drop DFW-MKE nonstop service since AA has its main hub at DFW, since there is more than enough demand for nonstop service to DFW from MKE, since DFW is one of the top destinations traveled to from MKE, and since AA offers connections to destinations that are not served by WN through AA's DFW hub.

AA is unlikely to ever drop MKE-CLT nonstop service since AA is also currently the only airline that serves CLT nonstop from MKE, since AA has nonstop service out of CLT to East Coast destinations that AA doesn't serve nonstop from ORD or PHL, and since CLT is one of the largest hubs for AA.

While AA is currently the only airline with year-round daily nonstop service to PHL from MKE, F9 has less-than-daily seasonal nonstop service to PHL from MKE. DL can also connect passengers to PHL from MKE through its DTW hub. AA is likely to continue serving PHL nonstop from MKE with AA being the only carrier with year-round daily nonstop service to PHL from MKE and with PHL being one of AA's transatlantic gateways.

I agree that there are many travelers in the PHX market who prefer to fly on WN over AA due to WN having nonstop service out of PHX to destinations that AA doesn't serve nonstop from PHX such as BUF, CLE, SDF, BNA, MSY, TUL, and ICT. I am unsure if AA will ever drop MKE-PHX nonstop service, but AA is unlikely to discontinue MKE-PHX nonstop service in the near future.
 
seanpmassey
Posts: 98
Joined: Mon May 23, 2016 3:22 pm

Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:27 pm

jplatts wrote:
AA could add nonstop service to its LAX, MIA, LGA, and DCA hubs from MKE. While WN already serves LAX and DCA nonstop from MKE, there is currently no nonstop competition on MKE-LAX and MKE-DCA. WN is also currently the only airline to serve the Miami/Fort Lauderdale market nonstop from MKE with seasonal MKE-FLL nonstop service.

The top destinations traveled to from MDW that aren't served nonstop from MKE on WN include AUS, CMH, DAL, MSP, EWR, PIT, PHL, and RDU. It is easier to get to MKE than to MDW from many of the northern Chicago suburbs in rush-hour traffic, even though MDW is closer than MKE is to most of the northern Chicago suburbs. WN could add MKE-AUS, MKE-CMH, MKE-EWR, MKE-PHL, MKE-PIT, and MKE-RDU nonstop service, and WN has a customer base in Greater Milwaukee, the Racine/Kenosha area, the northern Chicago suburbs, and other parts of Wisconsin to support additional service out of MKE.

While DL already serves most of its hubs plus its BOS focus city nonstop from MKE, DL could add MKE-LAX and MKE-JFK nonstop service. UA could also add nonstop service to its SFO and IAD hubs from MKE.


Is there enough market to support these adds?

Not only does it not make sense to make MKE into a second MDW, but it would dilute their service at MDW as well. It doesn't make sense from Southwest's perspective to create another mid-Continent hub so close to Midway. Yeah, it would be nice for customers, but it really doesn't make sense.

Some of those markets (mainly DCA, JFK, SFO, LAX) have slot or schedule-review requirements.

Delta already serves DCA from down the road in Madison.
UA also serves SFO from Madison.

Delta already serves LGA from MKE, so unless there is a lot of international connections that aren't being served with existing connections, a flight to JFK doesn't make sense. LGA is generally the better airport for business travel to New York.
 
Planeboy17
Posts: 449
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:18 am

Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:40 pm

knope2001 wrote:
Planeboy17 wrote:
Hi, does anyone know what the Caribbean charter schedule will be and what carriers will be used?


MKE international beach flying this season:

Cancun -- 8x/week
3x Saturdays, 1x Sunday/Monday/Wednesday/Thursday/Friday

Cozumel 1x/week
Monday

Los Cabos 1x/week
Friday

Montego Bay 2x/week
Tuesday, Saturday

Puerto Vallarta 2x/week
Sunday, Thursday

Punta Cana 4x/week
Sunday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Saturday

All flights this season are Miami Air operated by TUI Airlines Belgium, except for Delta and Southwest each operating a Saturday Cancun flight during the spring peak.

Thank you Knope!
 
Flighty
Posts: 9963
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:45 pm

MSN versus MKE is a little like AUS versus other Texas cities, on a 1/3 to 1/4 scale. The business world of 2018 is focusing on the great universities in these cities (both state capitals as well). They appear to be growing toward maybe being full peers of the larger cities in their respective states. Maybe RNO is another example.
 
jplatts
Posts: 3797
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:14 pm

seanpmassey wrote:
Is there enough market to support these adds?

Not only does it not make sense to make MKE into a second MDW, but it would dilute their service at MDW as well. It doesn't make sense from Southwest's perspective to create another mid-Continent hub so close to Midway. Yeah, it would be nice for customers, but it really doesn't make sense.


I agree with your point that it doesn't make sense for WN to create a mid-continent hub so close to MDW, and most of those traveling to the city of Chicago from other places will be flying into MDW or ORD instead of MKE. On the other hand, there are times when it is quicker to get to MKE than to MDW from the northern Chicago suburbs with Chicago traffic, even though most of the northern Chicago suburbs are closer to MDW than to MKE.

PHL and EWR are actually 2 of the top destinations traveled to from MKE that WN doesn't currently serve nonstop from MKE. WN could add MKE-PHL and MKE-EWR nonstop service since it is difficult to connect to these two destinations from MKE on WN, since WN can make nonstop service to other Northeastern destinations work from MKE, and since PHL and EWR are top Northeastern destinations that aren't currently served nonstop from MKE on WN.
 
User avatar
sunking737
Posts: 1648
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:33 pm

Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Dec 30, 2018 4:17 am

Anyone know how those SY flights are doing so far??
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
User avatar
BA744PHX
Posts: 393
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:42 am

Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:18 pm

phxtravelboy wrote:
jplatts wrote:
AA could add nonstop service to its LAX, MIA, LGA, and DCA hubs from MKE. While WN already serves LAX and DCA nonstop from MKE, there is currently no nonstop competition on MKE-LAX and MKE-DCA. WN is also currently the only airline to serve the Miami/Fort Lauderdale market nonstop from MKE with seasonal MKE-FLL nonstop service.

The top destinations traveled to from MDW that aren't served nonstop from MKE on WN include AUS, CMH, DAL, MSP, EWR, PIT, PHL, and RDU. It is easier to get to MKE than to MDW from many of the northern Chicago suburbs in rush-hour traffic, even though MDW is closer than MKE is to most of the northern Chicago suburbs. WN could add MKE-AUS, MKE-CMH, MKE-EWR, MKE-PHL, MKE-PIT, and MKE-RDU nonstop service, and WN has a customer base in Greater Milwaukee, the Racine/Kenosha area, the northern Chicago suburbs, and other parts of Wisconsin to support additional service out of MKE.

While DL already serves most of its hubs plus its BOS focus city nonstop from MKE, DL could add MKE-LAX and MKE-JFK nonstop service. UA could also add nonstop service to its SFO and IAD hubs from MKE.


Don't hold your breath for AA to add any of that service from MKE. AA's attitude to the MKE market is basically "I GUESS we'll fly there, but as long as we do, we'll provide the absolute bare minimum, crappy service". AA needs to just drop MKE altogether and force everyone to drive to ORD for much better service; that seems to be their endgoal with the MKE market anyway. The majority of their flights to MKE are on regional jets, and of those, the majority are on their smallest possible, crappy 50 seaters. They only offer 6 mainline flights a day and those are either on their oldest possible birds, the MD80s, or their smallest possible birds, the A319.

As far as the hub flying goes it is truly PATHETIC!!

MIA: They fly there from basically every other major or mid size market in the east/midwest. Even GRR is gaining service before MKE.

LGA: NYC has been MKE's #1 or #2 market for years, yet AA refuses to fly there from MKE. Again, they serve MANY other major/mid size markets in the east/midwest.

DCA: MKE, along with Houston, are the ONLY 2 cities that are in DCA's top 50 O/D markets, that AA doesn't fly to nonstop. Houston is VERY well covered by other carries in the market. MKE has 2 lousy WN nonstops per day.

LAX: AA, DL, and UA all provide non hub flying from LAX to various major/mid size markets all across the country. None of them flies to MKE. AA announced nonstop SDF service even. MKE has 1 lousy nonstop per day on WN.

So as you can see, the MKE market to AA is just not even remotely close to important. I live in PHX, but am from WI originally, so I fly home quite often. Due to AA's pathetic service, I usually fly nonstop on WN PHX-MKE and try to avoid AA as I refuse to support a carrier that offers crappy service.


Someone obviously has anger issues with AA, kind of funny actually.

LAX - you mention there is only 1 lousy non stop and its via WN, maybe thats due there being no market, and only 1 flight is needed for coverage
MIA - no market at this time
DCA - i cant recall if MKE is within perimeter of flights for DCA, if so and AA doesn't fly it, it's POSSIBLE there is money to be made elsewhere. MKE would be a waste of a slot
LGA - same as DCA

So by your anger towards AA, you would want them to waste resources, planes, crew, etc to have flights to make you happy.

On the same note, you can say MKE has no market for these flights to begin with and maybe, just maybe its MKE region thats pathetic and not a multi billion dollar cooperation.... (I have never been to MKE and have no reason to call it pathetic, just reversing the comments made by this poster) dont slam me for his issues

Airlines are in the business to make money, and not fly token routes to make certain people happy

Disclaimer, I do not work for AA nor fly them. I use to work for AA 15 years ago and was based in PHX. I am not pro AA as I live in a UA city and fly them exclusively. Also I am one of those fliers that refuse to fly WN due to its lack of worldwide connectivity and service. I travel out of the country (out of North America) nearly every month and require an airline to get me where I need to go via non stop or 1 stop, something WN cant do

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