BA744PHX wrote:

phxtravelboy wrote:

jplatts wrote:

AA could add nonstop service to its LAX, MIA, LGA, and DCA hubs from MKE. While WN already serves LAX and DCA nonstop from MKE, there is currently no nonstop competition on MKE-LAX and MKE-DCA. WN is also currently the only airline to serve the Miami/Fort Lauderdale market nonstop from MKE with seasonal MKE-FLL nonstop service.

The top destinations traveled to from MDW that aren't served nonstop from MKE on WN include AUS, CMH, DAL, MSP, EWR, PIT, PHL, and RDU. It is easier to get to MKE than to MDW from many of the northern Chicago suburbs in rush-hour traffic, even though MDW is closer than MKE is to most of the northern Chicago suburbs. WN could add MKE-AUS, MKE-CMH, MKE-EWR, MKE-PHL, MKE-PIT, and MKE-RDU nonstop service, and WN has a customer base in Greater Milwaukee, the Racine/Kenosha area, the northern Chicago suburbs, and other parts of Wisconsin to support additional service out of MKE.

While DL already serves most of its hubs plus its BOS focus city nonstop from MKE, DL could add MKE-LAX and MKE-JFK nonstop service. UA could also add nonstop service to its SFO and IAD hubs from MKE.

Don't hold your breath for AA to add any of that service from MKE. AA's attitude to the MKE market is basically "I GUESS we'll fly there, but as long as we do, we'll provide the absolute bare minimum, crappy service". AA needs to just drop MKE altogether and force everyone to drive to ORD for much better service; that seems to be their endgoal with the MKE market anyway. The majority of their flights to MKE are on regional jets, and of those, the majority are on their smallest possible, crappy 50 seaters. They only offer 6 mainline flights a day and those are either on their oldest possible birds, the MD80s, or their smallest possible birds, the A319.

As far as the hub flying goes it is truly PATHETIC!!

MIA: They fly there from basically every other major or mid size market in the east/midwest. Even GRR is gaining service before MKE.

LGA: NYC has been MKE's #1 or #2 market for years, yet AA refuses to fly there from MKE. Again, they serve MANY other major/mid size markets in the east/midwest.

DCA: MKE, along with Houston, are the ONLY 2 cities that are in DCA's top 50 O/D markets, that AA doesn't fly to nonstop. Houston is VERY well covered by other carries in the market. MKE has 2 lousy WN nonstops per day.

LAX: AA, DL, and UA all provide non hub flying from LAX to various major/mid size markets all across the country. None of them flies to MKE. AA announced nonstop SDF service even. MKE has 1 lousy nonstop per day on WN.

So as you can see, the MKE market to AA is just not even remotely close to important. I live in PHX, but am from WI originally, so I fly home quite often. Due to AA's pathetic service, I usually fly nonstop on WN PHX-MKE and try to avoid AA as I refuse to support a carrier that offers crappy service.

Someone obviously has anger issues with AA, kind of funny actually.

LAX - you mention there is only 1 lousy non stop and its via WN, maybe thats due there being no market, and only 1 flight is needed for coverage
MIA - no market at this time
DCA - i cant recall if MKE is within perimeter of flights for DCA, if so and AA doesn't fly it, it's POSSIBLE there is money to be made elsewhere. MKE would be a waste of a slot
LGA - same as DCA

So by your anger towards AA, you would want them to waste resources, planes, crew, etc to have flights to make you happy.

On the same note, you can say MKE has no market for these flights to begin with and maybe, just maybe its MKE region thats pathetic and not a multi billion dollar cooperation.... (I have never been to MKE and have no reason to call it pathetic, just reversing the comments made by this poster) dont slam me for his issues

Airlines are in the business to make money, and not fly token routes to make certain people happy

Disclaimer, I do not work for AA nor fly them. I use to work for AA 15 years ago and was based in PHX. I am not pro AA as I live in a UA city and fly them exclusively. Also I am one of those fliers that refuse to fly WN due to its lack of worldwide connectivity and service. I travel out of the country (out of North America) nearly every month and require an airline to get me where I need to go via non stop or 1 stop, something WN cant do

seanpmassey wrote:

BA744PHX wrote:

phxtravelboy wrote:

Don't hold your breath for AA to add any of that service from MKE. AA's attitude to the MKE market is basically "I GUESS we'll fly there, but as long as we do, we'll provide the absolute bare minimum, crappy service". AA needs to just drop MKE altogether and force everyone to drive to ORD for much better service; that seems to be their endgoal with the MKE market anyway. The majority of their flights to MKE are on regional jets, and of those, the majority are on their smallest possible, crappy 50 seaters. They only offer 6 mainline flights a day and those are either on their oldest possible birds, the MD80s, or their smallest possible birds, the A319.

As far as the hub flying goes it is truly PATHETIC!!

MIA: They fly there from basically every other major or mid size market in the east/midwest. Even GRR is gaining service before MKE.

LGA: NYC has been MKE's #1 or #2 market for years, yet AA refuses to fly there from MKE. Again, they serve MANY other major/mid size markets in the east/midwest.

DCA: MKE, along with Houston, are the ONLY 2 cities that are in DCA's top 50 O/D markets, that AA doesn't fly to nonstop. Houston is VERY well covered by other carries in the market. MKE has 2 lousy WN nonstops per day.

LAX: AA, DL, and UA all provide non hub flying from LAX to various major/mid size markets all across the country. None of them flies to MKE. AA announced nonstop SDF service even. MKE has 1 lousy nonstop per day on WN.

So as you can see, the MKE market to AA is just not even remotely close to important. I live in PHX, but am from WI originally, so I fly home quite often. Due to AA's pathetic service, I usually fly nonstop on WN PHX-MKE and try to avoid AA as I refuse to support a carrier that offers crappy service.

Someone obviously has anger issues with AA, kind of funny actually.

LAX - you mention there is only 1 lousy non stop and its via WN, maybe thats due there being no market, and only 1 flight is needed for coverage
MIA - no market at this time
DCA - i cant recall if MKE is within perimeter of flights for DCA, if so and AA doesn't fly it, it's POSSIBLE there is money to be made elsewhere. MKE would be a waste of a slot
LGA - same as DCA

So by your anger towards AA, you would want them to waste resources, planes, crew, etc to have flights to make you happy.

On the same note, you can say MKE has no market for these flights to begin with and maybe, just maybe its MKE region thats pathetic and not a multi billion dollar cooperation.... (I have never been to MKE and have no reason to call it pathetic, just reversing the comments made by this poster) dont slam me for his issues

Airlines are in the business to make money, and not fly token routes to make certain people happy

Disclaimer, I do not work for AA nor fly them. I use to work for AA 15 years ago and was based in PHX. I am not pro AA as I live in a UA city and fly them exclusively. Also I am one of those fliers that refuse to fly WN due to its lack of worldwide connectivity and service. I travel out of the country (out of North America) nearly every month and require an airline to get me where I need to go via non stop or 1 stop, something WN cant do

Hold up...that tone is uncalled for. No need to insult the entire region just because someone has a dream wishlist of service for a market. You admit that you've never been to MKE or have no knowledge of the business market there. So you might want to simmer down a bit.

LGA and DCA are both within their respective airports perimeter rules. But as I stated, there is already service to those locations. Delta flies to LGA from both MSN and MKE, and they also provide a 1x daily to DCA from MSN. MSN, by the way, is only about 90 minutes down the road from MKE.

You also have the overlap in catchment areas with ORD, which is about 90 minutes down the road from MKE (traffic depending) and MDW about another hour or so beyond that.

seanpmassey wrote:

BA744PHX wrote:

phxtravelboy wrote:

Don't hold your breath for AA to add any of that service from MKE. AA's attitude to the MKE market is basically "I GUESS we'll fly there, but as long as we do, we'll provide the absolute bare minimum, crappy service". AA needs to just drop MKE altogether and force everyone to drive to ORD for much better service; that seems to be their endgoal with the MKE market anyway. The majority of their flights to MKE are on regional jets, and of those, the majority are on their smallest possible, crappy 50 seaters. They only offer 6 mainline flights a day and those are either on their oldest possible birds, the MD80s, or their smallest possible birds, the A319.

As far as the hub flying goes it is truly PATHETIC!!

MIA: They fly there from basically every other major or mid size market in the east/midwest. Even GRR is gaining service before MKE.

LGA: NYC has been MKE's #1 or #2 market for years, yet AA refuses to fly there from MKE. Again, they serve MANY other major/mid size markets in the east/midwest.

DCA: MKE, along with Houston, are the ONLY 2 cities that are in DCA's top 50 O/D markets, that AA doesn't fly to nonstop. Houston is VERY well covered by other carries in the market. MKE has 2 lousy WN nonstops per day.

LAX: AA, DL, and UA all provide non hub flying from LAX to various major/mid size markets all across the country. None of them flies to MKE. AA announced nonstop SDF service even. MKE has 1 lousy nonstop per day on WN.

So as you can see, the MKE market to AA is just not even remotely close to important. I live in PHX, but am from WI originally, so I fly home quite often. Due to AA's pathetic service, I usually fly nonstop on WN PHX-MKE and try to avoid AA as I refuse to support a carrier that offers crappy service.

Someone obviously has anger issues with AA, kind of funny actually.

LAX - you mention there is only 1 lousy non stop and its via WN, maybe thats due there being no market, and only 1 flight is needed for coverage
MIA - no market at this time
DCA - i cant recall if MKE is within perimeter of flights for DCA, if so and AA doesn't fly it, it's POSSIBLE there is money to be made elsewhere. MKE would be a waste of a slot
LGA - same as DCA

So by your anger towards AA, you would want them to waste resources, planes, crew, etc to have flights to make you happy.

On the same note, you can say MKE has no market for these flights to begin with and maybe, just maybe its MKE region thats pathetic and not a multi billion dollar cooperation.... (I have never been to MKE and have no reason to call it pathetic, just reversing the comments made by this poster) dont slam me for his issues

Airlines are in the business to make money, and not fly token routes to make certain people happy

Disclaimer, I do not work for AA nor fly them. I use to work for AA 15 years ago and was based in PHX. I am not pro AA as I live in a UA city and fly them exclusively. Also I am one of those fliers that refuse to fly WN due to its lack of worldwide connectivity and service. I travel out of the country (out of North America) nearly every month and require an airline to get me where I need to go via non stop or 1 stop, something WN cant do

Hold up...that tone is uncalled for. No need to insult the entire region just because someone has a dream wishlist of service for a market. You admit that you've never been to MKE or have no knowledge of the business market there. So you might want to simmer down a bit.

LGA and DCA are both within their respective airports perimeter rules. But as I stated, there is already service to those locations. Delta flies to LGA from both MSN and MKE, and they also provide a 1x daily to DCA from MSN. MSN, by the way, is only about 90 minutes down the road from MKE.

You also have the overlap in catchment areas with ORD, which is about 90 minutes down the road from MKE (traffic depending) and MDW about another hour or so beyond that.

BA744PHX wrote:

phxtravelboy wrote:

jplatts wrote:

AA could add nonstop service to its LAX, MIA, LGA, and DCA hubs from MKE. While WN already serves LAX and DCA nonstop from MKE, there is currently no nonstop competition on MKE-LAX and MKE-DCA. WN is also currently the only airline to serve the Miami/Fort Lauderdale market nonstop from MKE with seasonal MKE-FLL nonstop service.

The top destinations traveled to from MDW that aren't served nonstop from MKE on WN include AUS, CMH, DAL, MSP, EWR, PIT, PHL, and RDU. It is easier to get to MKE than to MDW from many of the northern Chicago suburbs in rush-hour traffic, even though MDW is closer than MKE is to most of the northern Chicago suburbs. WN could add MKE-AUS, MKE-CMH, MKE-EWR, MKE-PHL, MKE-PIT, and MKE-RDU nonstop service, and WN has a customer base in Greater Milwaukee, the Racine/Kenosha area, the northern Chicago suburbs, and other parts of Wisconsin to support additional service out of MKE.

While DL already serves most of its hubs plus its BOS focus city nonstop from MKE, DL could add MKE-LAX and MKE-JFK nonstop service. UA could also add nonstop service to its SFO and IAD hubs from MKE.

Don't hold your breath for AA to add any of that service from MKE. AA's attitude to the MKE market is basically "I GUESS we'll fly there, but as long as we do, we'll provide the absolute bare minimum, crappy service". AA needs to just drop MKE altogether and force everyone to drive to ORD for much better service; that seems to be their endgoal with the MKE market anyway. The majority of their flights to MKE are on regional jets, and of those, the majority are on their smallest possible, crappy 50 seaters. They only offer 6 mainline flights a day and those are either on their oldest possible birds, the MD80s, or their smallest possible birds, the A319.

As far as the hub flying goes it is truly PATHETIC!!

MIA: They fly there from basically every other major or mid size market in the east/midwest. Even GRR is gaining service before MKE.

LGA: NYC has been MKE's #1 or #2 market for years, yet AA refuses to fly there from MKE. Again, they serve MANY other major/mid size markets in the east/midwest.

DCA: MKE, along with Houston, are the ONLY 2 cities that are in DCA's top 50 O/D markets, that AA doesn't fly to nonstop. Houston is VERY well covered by other carries in the market. MKE has 2 lousy WN nonstops per day.

LAX: AA, DL, and UA all provide non hub flying from LAX to various major/mid size markets all across the country. None of them flies to MKE. AA announced nonstop SDF service even. MKE has 1 lousy nonstop per day on WN.

So as you can see, the MKE market to AA is just not even remotely close to important. I live in PHX, but am from WI originally, so I fly home quite often. Due to AA's pathetic service, I usually fly nonstop on WN PHX-MKE and try to avoid AA as I refuse to support a carrier that offers crappy service.

Someone obviously has anger issues with AA, kind of funny actually.

LAX - you mention there is only 1 lousy non stop and its via WN, maybe thats due there being no market, and only 1 flight is needed for coverage
MIA - no market at this time
DCA - i cant recall if MKE is within perimeter of flights for DCA, if so and AA doesn't fly it, it's POSSIBLE there is money to be made elsewhere. MKE would be a waste of a slot
LGA - same as DCA

So by your anger towards AA, you would want them to waste resources, planes, crew, etc to have flights to make you happy.

On the same note, you can say MKE has no market for these flights to begin with and maybe, just maybe its MKE region thats pathetic and not a multi billion dollar cooperation.... (I have never been to MKE and have no reason to call it pathetic, just reversing the comments made by this poster) dont slam me for his issues

Airlines are in the business to make money, and not fly token routes to make certain people happy

Disclaimer, I do not work for AA nor fly them. I use to work for AA 15 years ago and was based in PHX. I am not pro AA as I live in a UA city and fly them exclusively. Also I am one of those fliers that refuse to fly WN due to its lack of worldwide connectivity and service. I travel out of the country (out of North America) nearly every month and require an airline to get me where I need to go via non stop or 1 stop, something WN cant do

Midwestindy wrote:

BA744PHX wrote:

phxtravelboy wrote:

Don't hold your breath for AA to add any of that service from MKE. AA's attitude to the MKE market is basically "I GUESS we'll fly there, but as long as we do, we'll provide the absolute bare minimum, crappy service". AA needs to just drop MKE altogether and force everyone to drive to ORD for much better service; that seems to be their endgoal with the MKE market anyway. The majority of their flights to MKE are on regional jets, and of those, the majority are on their smallest possible, crappy 50 seaters. They only offer 6 mainline flights a day and those are either on their oldest possible birds, the MD80s, or their smallest possible birds, the A319.

As far as the hub flying goes it is truly PATHETIC!!

MIA: They fly there from basically every other major or mid size market in the east/midwest. Even GRR is gaining service before MKE.

LGA: NYC has been MKE's #1 or #2 market for years, yet AA refuses to fly there from MKE. Again, they serve MANY other major/mid size markets in the east/midwest.

DCA: MKE, along with Houston, are the ONLY 2 cities that are in DCA's top 50 O/D markets, that AA doesn't fly to nonstop. Houston is VERY well covered by other carries in the market. MKE has 2 lousy WN nonstops per day.

LAX: AA, DL, and UA all provide non hub flying from LAX to various major/mid size markets all across the country. None of them flies to MKE. AA announced nonstop SDF service even. MKE has 1 lousy nonstop per day on WN.

So as you can see, the MKE market to AA is just not even remotely close to important. I live in PHX, but am from WI originally, so I fly home quite often. Due to AA's pathetic service, I usually fly nonstop on WN PHX-MKE and try to avoid AA as I refuse to support a carrier that offers crappy service.

Someone obviously has anger issues with AA, kind of funny actually.

LAX - you mention there is only 1 lousy non stop and its via WN, maybe thats due there being no market, and only 1 flight is needed for coverage
MIA - no market at this time
DCA - i cant recall if MKE is within perimeter of flights for DCA, if so and AA doesn't fly it, it's POSSIBLE there is money to be made elsewhere. MKE would be a waste of a slot
LGA - same as DCA

So by your anger towards AA, you would want them to waste resources, planes, crew, etc to have flights to make you happy.

On the same note, you can say MKE has no market for these flights to begin with and maybe, just maybe its MKE region thats pathetic and not a multi billion dollar cooperation.... (I have never been to MKE and have no reason to call it pathetic, just reversing the comments made by this poster) dont slam me for his issues

Airlines are in the business to make money, and not fly token routes to make certain people happy

Disclaimer, I do not work for AA nor fly them. I use to work for AA 15 years ago and was based in PHX. I am not pro AA as I live in a UA city and fly them exclusively. Also I am one of those fliers that refuse to fly WN due to its lack of worldwide connectivity and service. I travel out of the country (out of North America) nearly every month and require an airline to get me where I need to go via non stop or 1 stop, something WN cant do

You don't have any data to back up anything you are saying though, as you said yourself you don't even know the MKE market, so it doesn't make much sense for you to make claims about some of these markets.

MIA- Should be a no brainer for AA, there is no competition to MIA/FLL except for seasonal WN service. There is 150-200 PDEW on this route, not including stimulation and possible connections
LAX- Not crazy at all, around 300 PDEW on this route, and definitely opportunity to add more n/s service in addition to WN
LGA- AA isn't growing in NYC so I wouldn't expect that route
DCA- AA is limited in DCA until 2021, when they will be able to grow marginally, I could see MKE getting AA service then

The MKE market has potential, however, their air service department doesn't seem to be aggressive. MSN has been very very very aggressive thanks in part to Epic which has allowed them to gain more service.

phxtravelboy wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

BA744PHX wrote:

Someone obviously has anger issues with AA, kind of funny actually.

LAX - you mention there is only 1 lousy non stop and its via WN, maybe thats due there being no market, and only 1 flight is needed for coverage
MIA - no market at this time
DCA - i cant recall if MKE is within perimeter of flights for DCA, if so and AA doesn't fly it, it's POSSIBLE there is money to be made elsewhere. MKE would be a waste of a slot
LGA - same as DCA

So by your anger towards AA, you would want them to waste resources, planes, crew, etc to have flights to make you happy.

On the same note, you can say MKE has no market for these flights to begin with and maybe, just maybe its MKE region thats pathetic and not a multi billion dollar cooperation.... (I have never been to MKE and have no reason to call it pathetic, just reversing the comments made by this poster) dont slam me for his issues

Airlines are in the business to make money, and not fly token routes to make certain people happy

Disclaimer, I do not work for AA nor fly them. I use to work for AA 15 years ago and was based in PHX. I am not pro AA as I live in a UA city and fly them exclusively. Also I am one of those fliers that refuse to fly WN due to its lack of worldwide connectivity and service. I travel out of the country (out of North America) nearly every month and require an airline to get me where I need to go via non stop or 1 stop, something WN cant do

You don't have any data to back up anything you are saying though, as you said yourself you don't even know the MKE market, so it doesn't make much sense for you to make claims about some of these markets.

MIA- Should be a no brainer for AA, there is no competition to MIA/FLL except for seasonal WN service. There is 150-200 PDEW on this route, not including stimulation and possible connections
LAX- Not crazy at all, around 300 PDEW on this route, and definitely opportunity to add more n/s service in addition to WN
LGA- AA isn't growing in NYC so I wouldn't expect that route
DCA- AA is limited in DCA until 2021, when they will be able to grow marginally, I could see MKE getting AA service then

The MKE market has potential, however, their air service department doesn't seem to be aggressive. MSN has been very very very aggressive thanks in part to Epic which has allowed them to gain more service.

Thanks Midwestindy. I don't know how to find the PDEW data to support my argument. The numbers you found certainly seem to support my case that these markets could definitely succeed with nonstop service.

You're right; the MKE aviation department seems to be very passive; expecting the airlines to come to them.That is NOT how it works at all. As you also stated, MSN has been very aggressive and their efforts have been paying off; UA nonstop to SFO and soon LAX, SY to both RSW and TPA; AA to PHX. MSN has been on a roll lately.

phxtravelboy wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

BA744PHX wrote:

Someone obviously has anger issues with AA, kind of funny actually.

LAX - you mention there is only 1 lousy non stop and its via WN, maybe thats due there being no market, and only 1 flight is needed for coverage
MIA - no market at this time
DCA - i cant recall if MKE is within perimeter of flights for DCA, if so and AA doesn't fly it, it's POSSIBLE there is money to be made elsewhere. MKE would be a waste of a slot
LGA - same as DCA

So by your anger towards AA, you would want them to waste resources, planes, crew, etc to have flights to make you happy.

On the same note, you can say MKE has no market for these flights to begin with and maybe, just maybe its MKE region thats pathetic and not a multi billion dollar cooperation.... (I have never been to MKE and have no reason to call it pathetic, just reversing the comments made by this poster) dont slam me for his issues

Airlines are in the business to make money, and not fly token routes to make certain people happy

Disclaimer, I do not work for AA nor fly them. I use to work for AA 15 years ago and was based in PHX. I am not pro AA as I live in a UA city and fly them exclusively. Also I am one of those fliers that refuse to fly WN due to its lack of worldwide connectivity and service. I travel out of the country (out of North America) nearly every month and require an airline to get me where I need to go via non stop or 1 stop, something WN cant do

You don't have any data to back up anything you are saying though, as you said yourself you don't even know the MKE market, so it doesn't make much sense for you to make claims about some of these markets.

MIA- Should be a no brainer for AA, there is no competition to MIA/FLL except for seasonal WN service. There is 150-200 PDEW on this route, not including stimulation and possible connections
LAX- Not crazy at all, around 300 PDEW on this route, and definitely opportunity to add more n/s service in addition to WN
LGA- AA isn't growing in NYC so I wouldn't expect that route
DCA- AA is limited in DCA until 2021, when they will be able to grow marginally, I could see MKE getting AA service then

The MKE market has potential, however, their air service department doesn't seem to be aggressive. MSN has been very very very aggressive thanks in part to Epic which has allowed them to gain more service.

Thanks Midwestindy. I don't know how to find the PDEW data to support my argument. The numbers you found certainly seem to support my case that these markets could definitely succeed with nonstop service.

You're right; the MKE aviation department seems to be very passive; expecting the airlines to come to them.That is NOT how it works at all. As you also stated, MSN has been very aggressive and their efforts have been paying off; UA nonstop to SFO and soon LAX, SY to both RSW and TPA; AA to PHX. MSN has been on a roll lately.