Chicago Aviation News - 2018

sircygnus · Mon May 07, 2018 5:07 pm

ckfred wrote:

Yes, I-190 needs to be widened, but the real issue is outbound, east of Bessie Coleman. There is the confounding shoulder that has the red X, when it's backed up, and the green arrow, when traffic is light. The other issue that will get worse is trying to get off onto northbound Mannheim, which requires crossing over the lanes coming out of the toll both from traffic exiting southbound I-294.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who seems to think the Red X or Green Arrow are woefully insufficient for indicating whether an additional lane is open. The pavement markings are horrendous as well. I think the City realizes that something will need to be done with 190 eventually, Sunday evenings out from the airport are horrendous.

United787 · Mon May 07, 2018 6:57 pm

yeogeo wrote:
Newest ORD bird is in the database X 2:

Congrats, Wang and Voukadinov!

Guess we can finally put one frequent A-Net question to rest! Congrats to ORD finally getting the A380! I am guessing ORD was the busiest airport without A380 service...

yeogeo · Mon May 07, 2018 9:42 pm

VCEflyboy wrote:
VCE service has started. Beautiful water salute in AA red and blue.
https://venezia.virgilio.it/ultima-ora/ ... 11965.html

"[On departure from VCE] ...firefighters were involved for the "baptism" of the flight that with colored hydrants have 'wet' the wings. American wanted to astonish the passengers of the flight, the members of the team and the airport adding to the water two food colors, one red and one blue, for a spectacular effect in perfect tone with the company livery."
(google translate)

Virgilio

ORDfan · Mon May 07, 2018 10:06 pm

yeogeo wrote:
Newest ORD bird is in the database X 2:

Congrats, Wang and Voukadinov!

Yippee...anyone else notice BA gave the wheels a good scrubbing? They are nice and bright...probably not that clean since new.

I'm guess this was deliberate possibly....as they knew she would likely be well-spotted and photographed for her day 1 run?

ORDfan · Mon May 07, 2018 10:07 pm

yeogeo wrote:
VCEflyboy wrote:
VCE service has started. Beautiful water salute in AA red and blue.
https://venezia.virgilio.it/ultima-ora/ ... 11965.html

"[On departure from VCE] ...firefighters were involved for the "baptism" of the flight that with colored hydrants have 'wet' the wings. American wanted to astonish the passengers of the flight, the members of the team and the airport adding to the water two food colors, one red and one blue, for a spectacular effect in perfect tone with the company livery."
(google translate)

Virgilio

Now that's a dedicated salute... I like it!

yeogeo · Mon May 07, 2018 11:18 pm

Air Transport World drops a nugget of interest: that according to the Civil Aviation Administration of China Sichuan Airlines "plans to launch ...Chengdu (CTU)-Chicago service with 2X- weekly flights".

http://atwonline.com/airports-routes/am ... ket-crowds

No start date given.

CTU in relation to Shanghai and Beijing

yeogeo · Mon May 07, 2018 11:36 pm

yeogeo wrote:
Sichuan Airlines "plans to launch ...Chengdu (CTU)-Chicago service with 2X- weekly flights".

A new tail at T-5 and another A-350? ...time will tell.

United787 · Tue May 08, 2018 6:48 pm

Is UA's SFO-CTU flight doing well? Is it daily? Would be exciting for ORD to get a flight to the interior of China. Is CTU the only one that stuck for UA out of SFO?

727LOVER · Tue May 08, 2018 7:39 pm

So the 4-22s are staying?

nmdrdh787 · Tue May 08, 2018 9:41 pm

yeogeo wrote:
Air Transport World drops a nugget of interest: that according to the Civil Aviation Administration of China Sichuan Airlines "plans to launch ...Chengdu (CTU)-Chicago service with 2X- weekly flights".

http://atwonline.com/airports-routes/am ... ket-crowds

No start date given.

CTU in relation to Shanghai and Beijing

Interesting route with potential. A codeshare would make it work even better.

pipeafcr wrote:
ORDfan wrote:
yeogeo wrote:
Great - Been expecting this for a long time!

cero852 wrote:
Avianca adds BOG-ORD from 17NOV18.

AV082 BOG 14:58 20:38 ORD 319 1356
AV083 ORD 22:01 05:15+1 BOG 319 1356

Regards.

Agreed...happy to see this as well, but seems like quite a long ride in an 319.

Farthest I've ever flown in a 319 was ORD-SFO, but BOG has a good 1,000mi on that.

yeogeo wrote:
ORDfan wrote:
...seems like quite a long ride in an 319.

Farthest I've ever flown in a 319 was ORD-SFO, but BOG has a good 1,000mi on that.

A little over 6 hours in flight ...wouldn't deter me!

Interestingly enough AV does the longest scheduled A319 flight (BOG-MVD-BOG) it being 4,771 km per segment. BOG-ORD-BOG will still be a shorter flight by around 450 km (280 miles). Definitely not bad at all considering AV's service and inflight entertainment.

So glad they finally came out with this. Looks like they were wise to time it for good connections on both sides too.

yeogeo wrote:
Newest ORD bird is in the database X 2:

Congrats, Wang and Voukadinov!

Who ever took these pictures, you made me a bit emotional. Feels good and makes me proud to see the additions like this.

yeogeo · Tue May 08, 2018 10:41 pm

United787 wrote:
Is UA's SFO-CTU flight doing well? Is it daily? Would be exciting for ORD to get a flight to the interior of China. Is CTU the only one that stuck for UA out of SFO?

SFO-CTU is currently Tu/Th/Sun with 788, so I'd have to say at best its hanging in there.
Yes, the only one aside from PVG/PEK/HKG from SFO.

727LOVER wrote:
So the 4-22s are staying?

Yup. You can still see 22/4 Left and Right in this latest rendering

WROORD · Tue May 08, 2018 10:51 pm

LOT started its BUD-ORD route this week. Anyone has any info on load factors.

yeogeo · Tue May 08, 2018 10:53 pm

1st A-350 on the ORD Airliners database

TSA125 · Wed May 09, 2018 4:59 pm

Is runway 4R/22L even used anymore? I remember regularly seeing JL 747's and Northwest Cargo 747's, among others, lining up to land on 4R by the minute around 10 years ago.

ual763 · Wed May 09, 2018 5:20 pm

TSA125 wrote:
Is runway 4R/22L even used anymore? I remember regularly seeing JL 747's and Northwest Cargo 747's, among others, lining up to land on 4R by the minute around 10 years ago.

Yes! They still use it for takeoffs all the time. But never for landing anymore. At least not under any normal ops.

United787 · Wed May 09, 2018 5:44 pm

I assume for runway 4L/22R, in the future, it will be only used as a departure from 4L otherwise the proposed 2nd satellite (Concourse D) could not be built as far north as it is and the future long-term 3rd and 4th satellites would not be able to be built either? But if that was the case, could they shorten it from the south to just north of 9R/27L, eliminating the conflict at that runway and also allow for the 2nd satellite to extend all the way to the north as far as Concourse C? Or could they extend the north end of the runway?

LFutia · Wed May 09, 2018 6:59 pm

ckfred wrote:

Yes, I-190 needs to be widened, but the real issue is outbound, east of Bessie Coleman. There is the confounding shoulder that has the red X, when it's backed up, and the green arrow, when traffic is light. The other issue that will get worse is trying to get off onto northbound Mannheim, which requires crossing over the lanes coming out of the toll both from traffic exiting southbound I-294.

You would be surprised at how many people don't know what the green arrow is for. However, I'll use the lane regardless and its a huge pain in the ass when you're trying to re-merge back on 190 to keep left for 90 while all the taxis are trying to get in the lanes for 294. In regards to the Mannheim exit, I'm very surprised that there hasn't been a major crash there yet day in and day out of usage.

AMollenhauer9 · Wed May 09, 2018 7:04 pm

ual763 wrote:
TSA125 wrote:
Is runway 4R/22L even used anymore? I remember regularly seeing JL 747's and Northwest Cargo 747's, among others, lining up to land on 4R by the minute around 10 years ago.

Yes! They still use it for takeoffs all the time. But never for landing anymore. At least not under any normal ops.

They still land on it overnights every once in a great while. Landed there at about 11 PM from MIA last year.

chicawgo · Wed May 09, 2018 8:19 pm

AMollenhauer9 wrote:
ual763 wrote:
TSA125 wrote:
Is runway 4R/22L even used anymore? I remember regularly seeing JL 747's and Northwest Cargo 747's, among others, lining up to land on 4R by the minute around 10 years ago.

Yes! They still use it for takeoffs all the time. But never for landing anymore. At least not under any normal ops.

They still land on it overnights every once in a great while. Landed there at about 11 PM from MIA last year.

They also use it when ever crosswinds are too strong to use the E-W runways. i.e. N-S winds.

ADrum23 · Wed May 09, 2018 9:55 pm

United787 wrote:
I assume for runway 4L/22R, in the future, it will be only used as a departure from 4L otherwise the proposed 2nd satellite (Concourse D) could not be built as far north as it is and the future long-term 3rd and 4th satellites would not be able to be built either? But if that was the case, could they shorten it from the south to just north of 9R/27L, eliminating the conflict at that runway and also allow for the 2nd satellite to extend all the way to the north as far as Concourse C? Or could they extend the north end of the runway?

Why do they even need 4L/22R? It is an impediment to the new concourses being built (including a full proper reconstruction of the existing C). They would still have 7 runways if they removed it, which would be more than ATL.

Planeboy17 · Wed May 09, 2018 10:25 pm

ADrum23 wrote:
United787 wrote:
I assume for runway 4L/22R, in the future, it will be only used as a departure from 4L otherwise the proposed 2nd satellite (Concourse D) could not be built as far north as it is and the future long-term 3rd and 4th satellites would not be able to be built either? But if that was the case, could they shorten it from the south to just north of 9R/27L, eliminating the conflict at that runway and also allow for the 2nd satellite to extend all the way to the north as far as Concourse C? Or could they extend the north end of the runway?

Why do they even need 4L/22R? It is an impediment to the new concourses being built (including a full proper reconstruction of the existing C). They would still have 7 runways if they removed it, which would be more than ATL.

chicawgo wrote:
AMollenhauer9 wrote:
ual763 wrote:

Yes! They still use it for takeoffs all the time. But never for landing anymore. At least not under any normal ops.

They still land on it overnights every once in a great while. Landed there at about 11 PM from MIA last year.

They also use it when ever crosswinds are too strong to use the E-W runways. i.e. N-S winds.

jpetekyxmd80 · Wed May 09, 2018 10:31 pm

Have landed on 22R in the early morning a year or two ago. 777

yeogeo · Wed May 09, 2018 11:31 pm

The bits that affect O'Hare from the "United adjust Mexico network - ends service to HUX, MZT, & VSA" thread:

LAXintl wrote:
Announced internally today, a bunch of network changes happening to Mexico flying to better reflect passenger demand and profitability.
BJX (Leon, Guanajuato)
Effective October 28 introduce new daily service between ORD and BJX (Del Bajío)
MZT (Mazatlán)
Effective August 18, United will no longer operate service between MZT and ORD.

Iflymidwexprss · Thu May 10, 2018 12:28 am

Anyone know when AA ORD-CUN on the 788 will be bookable? Have been checking nonstop since the news last week, to book flights for next March. Will surprise the heck out the wife with lie-flats!

yeogeo · Thu May 10, 2018 11:38 pm

Chicago Business Journal has an article on the two new Avianca routes coming to ORD (GUA & BOG).
https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/new ... 2018-05-10

"As Avianca was making its new-routes announcement, the Chicago Department of Aviation [noted] the routes will mark the 14th and 15th new international routes added at O’Hare in 2018."
-
"...Colombians are the second-largest South American-origin population in Chicago. Guatemalans, in turn, are the largest Central American-origin population in Chicago."

muralir · Fri May 11, 2018 12:38 am

yeogeo wrote:
Chicago Business Journal has an article on the two new Avianca routes coming to ORD (GUA & BOG).
https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/new ... 2018-05-10

"As Avianca was making its new-routes announcement, the Chicago Department of Aviation [noted] the routes will mark the 14th and 15th new international routes added at O’Hare in 2018."

Is that net new routes though? i.e. does it take into account loss of services like AA's ORD-PEK flight?

yeogeo · Fri May 11, 2018 4:00 am

New international routes are sexier than newly discontinued international routes, so I doubt you'll find them putting out a press release with announcements taking route cancellations into consideration. Besides, ORD-PEK is still flown by UA and HU so not technically a loss of a route. I can think of one international loss announced this year off the top of my head: MZT on UA.

ORDfan · Fri May 11, 2018 2:12 pm

Some video and photos of the new AA L stinger gates making the rounds:

Looks solid to me: seating areas seem a little smaller than expected but otherwise nice. The signage looks identical to existing, which is cool.

https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/new ... ohare.html

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2018/05/11/ ... -airlines/

glbltrvlr · Fri May 11, 2018 2:28 pm

ORDfan wrote:
Some video and photos of the new AA L stinger gates making the rounds: Looks solid to me: seating areas seem a little smaller than expected but otherwise nice.

AA did this in the DFW B Concourse also. If they are going to keep shrinking the space inside the aircraft, the least they could do is de-stress the ground experience and create a little more walk room / gate seating..

yeogeo · Fri May 11, 2018 4:17 pm

glbltrvlr wrote:
If they are going to keep shrinking the space inside the aircraft, the least they could do is de-stress the ground experience and create a little more walk room / gate seating..

American is dealing here with an extremely constrained building footprint along with special safety considerations which necessitates the featureless north wall. I'm sure they've taken every inch they could.

ORDfan · Fri May 11, 2018 6:21 pm

yeogeo wrote:
glbltrvlr wrote:
If they are going to keep shrinking the space inside the aircraft, the least they could do is de-stress the ground experience and create a little more walk room / gate seating..

American is dealing here with an extremely constrained building footprint along with special safety considerations which necessitates the featureless north wall. I'm sure they've taken every inch they could.

Hmm, you think so? I'm not sure how much influence AA had on the seating area size vs the city/airport planners. To my eye, the seating area looks small/narrow relative to the width of the aisle.

I'm not bothered by the north wall, but a little art work would be nice some day! Maybe some coffee/snack kiosks as well?

United787 · Fri May 11, 2018 6:48 pm

Nice and new but a little drab an generic... Generican Airlines you might say...

yeogeo · Fri May 11, 2018 6:52 pm

ORDfan wrote:
I'm not sure how much influence AA had on the seating area size vs the city/airport planners. To my eye, the seating area looks small/narrow relative to the width of the aisle.

I believe the Stinger gates were all on AA's nickel, so I'm assuming that AA would have taken the lead in the design of the interior.

jbs2886 · Fri May 11, 2018 6:54 pm

United787 wrote:
Nice and new but a little drab an generic... Generican Airlines you might say...

Its a 5-8 regional jet gate expansion at a major airport, they aren't going for the "wow" factor. That would be needlessly expensive.

chicawgo · Fri May 11, 2018 7:39 pm

Someone really messed up here and forgot to put T5 on the signs.

jcwr56 · Fri May 11, 2018 8:10 pm

ORDfan wrote:
yeogeo wrote:
glbltrvlr wrote:
If they are going to keep shrinking the space inside the aircraft, the least they could do is de-stress the ground experience and create a little more walk room / gate seating..

American is dealing here with an extremely constrained building footprint along with special safety considerations which necessitates the featureless north wall. I'm sure they've taken every inch they could.

Hmm, you think so? I'm not sure how much influence AA had on the seating area size vs the city/airport planners. To my eye, the seating area looks small/narrow relative to the width of the aisle.

I'm not bothered by the north wall, but a little art work would be nice some day! Maybe some coffee/snack kiosks as well?

I was over there this morning for the ribbon cutting and it's very nice. Plenty of room and those seats are comfortable. They'll be a Starbucks and Hamburger concession going in soon. Also, there's the Dom>T5 bus shuttle that operates from L24, so no signage needed at this time.

For those interested, the wall to the right will be where the new 3 regional new gates will be built.

chicawgo · Fri May 11, 2018 8:12 pm

jcwr56 wrote:
ORDfan wrote:
yeogeo wrote:

American is dealing here with an extremely constrained building footprint along with special safety considerations which necessitates the featureless north wall. I'm sure they've taken every inch they could.

Hmm, you think so? I'm not sure how much influence AA had on the seating area size vs the city/airport planners. To my eye, the seating area looks small/narrow relative to the width of the aisle.

I'm not bothered by the north wall, but a little art work would be nice some day! Maybe some coffee/snack kiosks as well?

I was over there this morning for the ribbon cutting and it's very nice. Plenty of room and those seats are comfortable. They'll be a Starbucks and Hamburger Concession going in soon. Also, there's the Dom>T5 bus shuttle that operates from L24, so no signage needed at this time.

Wow! They're adding another stop to the shuttle?? So there will be standalone signs at each gate then?

_AA_777_MAN · Sat May 12, 2018 4:33 pm

Looks like Iceland Air has added some extra frequencies. Was this ever announced?

jbs2886 · Sat May 12, 2018 6:03 pm

[twoid][/twoid]

_AA_777_MAN wrote:
Looks like Iceland Air has added some extra frequencies. Was this ever announced?

How many? When? Source?

yeogeo · Sat May 12, 2018 6:25 pm

_AA_777_MAN wrote:
Looks like Iceland Air has added some extra frequencies. Was this ever announced?

I'm like you - I missed the announcement.
I see starting 5/31 double daily service, with departures at 19:15 and 19:30 (FI 854 & FI 852) on Tues/Thurs/Fri/Sat/Sun.
Mon/Wed remains the 19:30 departure (FI 852). All flights 757.

WingsOfLove · Sat May 12, 2018 8:39 pm

jcwr56 wrote:
For those interested, the wall to the right will be where the new 3 regional new gates will be built.

'Common use' and financed by Chicago, right?

AA built the 'stinger' in something like 18 months. Is there a target date for the additional 3 gates?

yeogeo · Sat May 12, 2018 9:16 pm

yeogeo wrote:
I see starting 5/31 double daily service, with departures at 19:15 and 19:30 (FI 854 & FI 852) on Tues/Thurs/Fri/Sat/Sun.
All flights 757.

Seems like Icelandair could use more 767's.

chicawgo · Sun May 13, 2018 3:29 am

yeogeo wrote:
_AA_777_MAN wrote:
Looks like Iceland Air has added some extra frequencies. Was this ever announced?

I'm like you - I missed the announcement.
I see starting 5/31 double daily service, with departures at 19:15 and 19:30 (FI 854 & FI 852) on Tues/Thurs/Fri/Sat/Sun.
Mon/Wed remains the 19:30 departure (FI 852). All flights 757.

I see many days where one of the flights is 76W

yeogeo · Sun May 13, 2018 11:19 am

chicawgo wrote:
I see many days where one of the flights is 76W

Can you be more specific? Is it seasonal? I just went back to Icelandair.com and picked a random week (Aug 15) and all twelve flights during those seven days are listed as 757.

midway7 · Sun May 13, 2018 12:16 pm

ORDfan wrote:
yeogeo wrote:
glbltrvlr wrote:
If they are going to keep shrinking the space inside the aircraft, the least they could do is de-stress the ground experience and create a little more walk room / gate seating..

American is dealing here with an extremely constrained building footprint along with special safety considerations which necessitates the featureless north wall. I'm sure they've taken every inch they could.

Hmm, you think so? I'm not sure how much influence AA had on the seating area size vs the city/airport planners. To my eye, the seating area looks small/narrow relative to the width of the aisle.

I'm not bothered by the north wall, but a little art work would be nice some day! Maybe some coffee/snack kiosks as well?

The north wall at some point will be replaced with 3 additional gates. However, I agree, they should do something in the interim.

This may sound crazy, and knowing Chicago politics I likely can surmise the answer, but why not relocate Spirit to this stinger concourse, and free up the old L concourse for use exclusively by AA. This would help AA some with connections and ground operations. Since NK is likely all O&D, I do not see how this would have any negative effect on their operations.

Adding these new gates to the F9 gates they are getting back in old L, AA seems to have added some real gates here recently. Any of these, or the gates in H/K being converted back to mainline. Just interested in what the overall plan is with these additions.

yeogeo · Sun May 13, 2018 12:37 pm

midway7 wrote:
This may sound crazy, and knowing Chicago politics I likely can surmise the answer, but why not relocate Spirit to this stinger concourse, and free up the old L concourse for use exclusively by AA. This would help AA some with connections and ground operations.

AA paid for the project, so, no, I don't see them handing them over to NK!

midway7 · Sun May 13, 2018 12:44 pm

Not necessarily implying they hand them over. Not even sure what you mean in that context.

Perhaps a transfer of a lease or sublease obligation? The point is to transfer gate locations for ones closer to the rest of the operation.

yeogeo · Sun May 13, 2018 1:27 pm

midway7 wrote:
Not necessarily implying they hand them over. Not even sure what you mean in that context.

Hand over, lease, barter, whatever... not going to happen. In a few years (hopefully) T-3 will be all Oneworld so NK will be over at T-5 anyway.

Came across this newly minted map of T-3. I see the T-5 shuttle is only for British Airways pax, so I take it that it was initiated by BA. Did not know this; thought it was for all comers.

jcwr56 · Sun May 13, 2018 1:42 pm

yeogeo wrote:
midway7 wrote:
Not necessarily implying they hand them over. Not even sure what you mean in that context.

Hand over, lease, barter, whatever... not going to happen. In a few years (hopefully) T-3 will be all Oneworld so NK will be over at T-5 anyway.

Came across this newly minted map of T-3. Didn't know the T-5 shuttle is only for British Airways pax, so I take it that it was initiated by BA. Did not know this; thought it was for all comers.

Can you PM me the link where you found this at. Thanks!

yeogeo · Sun May 13, 2018 2:20 pm

Perhaps this was discussed elsewhere; if so, I missed it. As midway7 implied upthread, Frontier has moved entirely over to T-5 as of yesterday.

http://www.flychicago.com/business/medi ... ewsid=1464

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