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william
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Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:32 am

After T2 is built which terminal gets renovated or replaced next? One would think T3, but T1 looks to the easier of the two to rebuild. One would think the Airport would want the midfield terminals build out completed before finding room for displaced AA when rebuilding T3 or move them to the west terminal complex. AA will have a spit operation using midfield concourses to the west of United's and whatever replacement occupies the T3 spot.

Image
 
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william
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Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:35 am

yeogeo wrote:
william wrote:
How does traffic landing on 10R cross 10L? Does the 10R traffic back track to taxiway DD like 10C?


Correct. Today we did 10R>Y>P>DD (or CC-not sure) and in to terminals. Its a long trek.

yeo


Wow, a long trek indeed. At least its safer and one is not crossing in front of active traffic. Wander why other airports with parallel runways do not adapt the same SOP.
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:49 am

Its a long ride in from 27R/9L also, but I personally think its better to be on the ground with a long taxi than circling in the air waiting to land - and I'm sure the airlines agree.

yeo
 
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jetblastdubai
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Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:50 am

yeogeo wrote:
william wrote:
How does traffic landing on 10R cross 10L? Does the 10R traffic back track to taxiway DD like 10C?


Correct. Today we did 10R>Y>P>DD (or CC-not sure) and in to terminals. Its a long trek.

yeo


And the beauty of it is that you never had to stop the aircraft and the Captain had the choice of taxiing at any safe speed he/she chose. You never had to cross an active departure or arrival runway thus eliminating any chance of a runway incursion or accident and the departure flow was never interrupted so the tower was able to optimize the departure split and rate.

In the event that your flight did not have an available gate, the ground controller had the option of holding you away from the terminal area eliminating congestion. It's the same concept as having beltways around large cities...you might travel a longer distance but you can reduce congestion at choke points which frees up real estate to help keep everyone else moving. The Planning/Procedures office at ORD ATC did this one right!
Every zoo is a petting zoo......if you're a man!
 
muralir
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 3:44 pm

Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:09 am

jcwr56 wrote:
yeogeo wrote:
Wondering if we're seeing remote stands on the eastern side of this image (four a/c on right-hand side), or just temporary parking?
Image

from http://www.flychicago.com/sites/ohare21 ... _to_NE.PNG


Those are permanent hardstands. Actually there’s room for an A380 out there.


Boy, hardstands would be brutal in the middle of winter... :cold:

It also raises the question of, if they determined a need for those extra gates, why not just extend that new leg of T5 further down and add a few more jet bridges? It certainly looks like there's still some space before you run into important roads.

Also, in all these drawings, it seems that white designates new construction while brown designates original structures. There's a white segment behind the main T5 terminal area. Does this mean the terminal area will be expanded as well?

Last question: don't know how accurate these drawings are, but it seems like the new T5 jet bridges are incredibly long! Each plane's nose essentially lines up with the next gate rather than it's own gate, with an ultra-long jet bridge spanning the distance. In contrast, the new heavy gates in T1/T2 are pictured with the planes lined up with their own gates, and with reasonably-sized jet bridges. Is there a reason for that? Why not just line up the planes directly behind their gates and have short jetways? Or am I reading way too much into conceptual drawings? :D
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:27 am

william wrote:
After T2 is built which terminal gets renovated or replaced next? One would think T3, but T1 looks to the easier of the two to rebuild. One would think the Airport would want the midfield terminals build out completed before finding room for displaced AA when rebuilding T3 or move them to the west terminal complex. AA will have a spit operation using midfield concourses to the west of United's and whatever replacement occupies the T3 spot.

Image


Whoa there William, I'm not sure I follow you here very well.
It seems to me the logical progression (although not necessarily the actual progression, as we really don't know much as yet) is:

A: Removing rwy 15/33 (underway) concurrent with the T-5 buildout (hopefully, anyway). I'll throw in the Terminal 3 L gate expansion here as well (most of which is already complete, aside from the gates on the north side of said expansion).

B: Build the farthest west Terminal D(?)-after all, if I'm not mistaken, that is where the UA T-2 traffic will go, as well as the extension to the B gates and the people mover for passenger access between B, C and D.

C: Tear out current T-2 and rebuild as shown.

Perhaps the current Terminal 2 B&C gates will be modernized along with Terminal 3... where that fits in the scheme of things, I don't know.

Just throwing it all out there for discussion... stay tuned!

yeo
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:16 pm

A few nuggets of new information (new to me anyway) on the redevelopment plan here:
http://www.dailyherald.com/news/2018032 ... he-suburbs

"By 2026, airport employees will be able to enter O'Hare from the west via Route 390, park their cars and undergo security screening in a new facility intended to serve 10,000 people. They will then be bussed to work. As overall activity at O'Hare grows, parking and services will be expanded to handle passengers. At that point, an underground pedestrian walkway or automated people mover will convey travelers to satellite concourses and terminals, Evans said. Although it's not obvious, the fine print of the plan does allow for a western terminal, Evans affirmed."

(Evans is Chicago Department of Aviation Commissioner Ginger Evans)
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:28 pm

By the way... the airport employee facility mentioned above is visible as the large striped rectangular undefined space on the far west (left-hand) side of the overall site plan:
Image


all renderings can be found here:
http://www.flychicago.com/sites/ohare21 ... fault.aspx
 
AAplat4life
Posts: 310
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Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:14 pm

From what I can see, the design really falls short in moving passengers around the airport and will make connections even harder. DIA and DFW will still be better. Imagine connecting on AA from a new T2 gate to a gate in T3L or even one of the far gates in T3 H or K, or even T1 B on United. And if someone is catching an internationalist flight in T5, that will still require using the people mover outside of security and going through security again at T5. The details have been scant so far, but the video only shows the new T2 satellites being connected to the main building by moving walkways. For $8.5B, I expected more.
 
gwrudolph
Posts: 278
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:46 pm

Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Sat Mar 31, 2018 3:38 pm

AAplat4life wrote:
From what I can see, the design really falls short in moving passengers around the airport and will make connections even harder. DIA and DFW will still be better. Imagine connecting on AA from a new T2 gate to a gate in T3L or even one of the far gates in T3 H or K, or even T1 B on United. And if someone is catching an internationalist flight in T5, that will still require using the people mover outside of security and going through security again at T5. The details have been scant so far, but the video only shows the new T2 satellites being connected to the main building by moving walkways. For $8.5B, I expected more.


Well not really.

With regard to the long walks within T3, excepting the new T3L, that situation exists today. Similarly, I would argue that the walk from the end of T2 to the end of T1-C (think UAX to UA connection) is probably as long as anything in the new configuration. I also don't think these long intra-terminal connections are/will be unique to O'Hare. Most very large hub connections where one by chance ends up at the book ends of the hub carrier's footprint (DFW AA/AA, ATL DL/DL, SFO UA/UA, etc) are equally as lengthy

With regard to T5, remember that T2 will now be the new shared international terminal for Star and OneWorld, while T5 will become all of the other misc non-hub carriers. Today, all of those intra-alliance connections (LH-UA, JL-BA, NH-UA, BA-AA, etc) require long connections and use of the ATS to complete. In the future, they can stay in the same general vicinity (T2/T1 for UA and T2/T3 for AA) with no need to use the ATS for leave the overall terminal structure.

Now admittedly, if you are transiting outside of an Alliance (e. g. Royal Jordanian to United) or something like that, it may be just as bad or worse under the new configuration. However, I would argue that those are the exceptions and consolidating by Alliance group takes most of the inter-terminal connections, which are intra-alliance, out of the equation.

In general, I think it is a very smart plan and will make it much easier for most domestic/domestic and international/domestic connections than it is today! Unfortunately, it is a long way off yet
 
TWA1985
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Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Sat Mar 31, 2018 3:39 pm

Hi There,

Not to veere off the expansion conversation, but I’ve seen it mentioned several times on here that AA was expected to release a rather significant summer schedule overhaul for ORD by now, with frequency changes and aircraft upgauges. It appears the new schedule is out, however, so far I’m not seeing much in the way of changes. Was this all hype or am I merely looking at the wrong routes?

Thanks.
Be Young. Be Wild. Be Free.
 
ADrum23
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Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:03 pm

gwrudolph wrote:
AAplat4life wrote:
From what I can see, the design really falls short in moving passengers around the airport and will make connections even harder. DIA and DFW will still be better. Imagine connecting on AA from a new T2 gate to a gate in T3L or even one of the far gates in T3 H or K, or even T1 B on United. And if someone is catching an internationalist flight in T5, that will still require using the people mover outside of security and going through security again at T5. The details have been scant so far, but the video only shows the new T2 satellites being connected to the main building by moving walkways. For $8.5B, I expected more.


Well not really.

With regard to the long walks within T3, excepting the new T3L, that situation exists today. Similarly, I would argue that the walk from the end of T2 to the end of T1-C (think UAX to UA connection) is probably as long as anything in the new configuration. I also don't think these long intra-terminal connections are/will be unique to O'Hare. Most very large hub connections where one by chance ends up at the book ends of the hub carrier's footprint (DFW AA/AA, ATL DL/DL, SFO UA/UA, etc) are equally as lengthy

With regard to T5, remember that T2 will now be the new shared international terminal for Star and OneWorld, while T5 will become all of the other misc non-hub carriers. Today, all of those intra-alliance connections (LH-UA, JL-BA, NH-UA, BA-AA, etc) require long connections and use of the ATS to complete. In the future, they can stay in the same general vicinity (T2/T1 for UA and T2/T3 for AA) with no need to use the ATS for leave the overall terminal structure.

Now admittedly, if you are transiting outside of an Alliance (e. g. Royal Jordanian to United) or something like that, it may be just as bad or worse under the new configuration. However, I would argue that those are the exceptions and consolidating by Alliance group takes most of the inter-terminal connections, which are intra-alliance, out of the equation.

In general, I think it is a very smart plan and will make it much easier for most domestic/domestic and international/domestic connections than it is today! Unfortunately, it is a long way off yet


I'm sure there are very few international passengers that actually connect from UA/AA to a non star alliance/oneworld international carrier.
 
ADrum23
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Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:08 pm

AAplat4life wrote:
From what I can see, the design really falls short in moving passengers around the airport and will make connections even harder. DIA and DFW will still be better. Imagine connecting on AA from a new T2 gate to a gate in T3L or even one of the far gates in T3 H or K, or even T1 B on United. And if someone is catching an internationalist flight in T5, that will still require using the people mover outside of security and going through security again at T5. The details have been scant so far, but the video only shows the new T2 satellites being connected to the main building by moving walkways. For $8.5B, I expected more.


Remember though, this is just Phase 1. Future phases will demolish today's Terminal 3 and replace it with additional island concourses to the west and a people mover to connect them. Eventually, everything outside of Terminal 5 will look like ATL does today. This will make the airport much easier for connections.

As I said, I doubt very many UA/AA pax are connecting to a non-alliance international carrier, so that won't be an issue in the future.
 
Planeboy17
Posts: 99
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Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:12 pm

TWA1985 wrote:
Hi There,

Not to veere off the expansion conversation, but I’ve seen it mentioned several times on here that AA was expected to release a rather significant summer schedule overhaul for ORD by now, with frequency changes and aircraft upgauges. It appears the new schedule is out, however, so far I’m not seeing much in the way of changes. Was this all hype or am I merely looking at the wrong routes?

Thanks.


Yeah, the thread is missing now. I haven’t checked the schedules on AA yet.
 
ORDfan
Topic Author
Posts: 428
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Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:33 pm

ADrum23 wrote:
Remember though, this is just Phase 1. Future phases will demolish today's Terminal 3 and replace it with additional island concourses to the west and a people mover to connect them. Eventually, everything outside of Terminal 5 will look like ATL does today. This will make the airport much easier for connections.


Where are you getting this about Phase 1 and the future demolition of T3? I haven't seen that mentioned in an official literature or the renderings?

Also, there is no way the city would allow the area that T3 occupies to go to waste or be empty. Maybe T3 will get revamped post-security side, but I doubt it will get demolished and/or that land will vacated.
 
ORDfan
Topic Author
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Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:38 pm

The CDA put together a cool little video with the highlights of project. I like it....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB8uFIYskHA

Also there is a website for the project as well. Hopefully this stays updated throughout the course of the project. I will say this: I'm sure everything will look great once completed, but I am highly doubtful of the 8 year timeline. This seems like a 10-12 year project... at least, if past delays with the runway reconfiguration and CONRAC are any guide.

http://www.ord21.com
 
Planeboy17
Posts: 99
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Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:59 pm

TWA1985 wrote:
Hi There,

Not to veere off the expansion conversation, but I’ve seen it mentioned several times on here that AA was expected to release a rather significant summer schedule overhaul for ORD by now, with frequency changes and aircraft upgauges. It appears the new schedule is out, however, so far I’m not seeing much in the way of changes. Was this all hype or am I merely looking at the wrong routes?

Thanks.


So just checking on AA for Thursday, July 26 I found the following changes. At least I think these are changes from what I remember seeing before.
SEA goes from 5 to 6 all 738.
PDX goes to 3 from 2 all 738.
SFO stays at 6 but a 2nd 32B operates.
SNA goes to 5 from 3 all 738.
PHX stays at 9 but all 321, no more 738s.
LAS gets 1 of 5 on a 32B.
DEN is 5 738s. I think that’s the most I can remember maybe ever for this route on AA.
DFW gets the 788 back.
AUS actually loses a mainline. E75 replaces it. Surprising.
SAT gets 2 738s out of 3 flights.
BOS goes to 11 with intro of 32B on the route.
IND gets a middle of the day 738 turn. I think that’s the first time that route gets mainline in a long time.
I could only find 2 domestic routes with wide bodies. DFW with 788 and MIA with 767.
MIA will have the only 76 and 75 routes I think.
STL continues to shrink, 6 flights with only 3 738 and the rest E75 or CR7.
MCI is basically the same schedule as STL,but that’s an up gauge. I don’t remember 3 mainline on there for a while.
That’s about all I could find that I thought was interesting. Some cities that I think would get mainline are still waiting are DTW, CLE, CMH, and JAX. I think DTW had some last year but I’m pretty sure the others haven’t had it in a long time.
Very little M80 flights as well. I’ll have to double check but I think I only saw them on MSP and RDU but I didn’t check every city.
Very little 319 flights. I only saw 1 PHL flight but again didn’t check JAC. They usually have one in the summer.
Love to see if anyone else can find anything else or correct me on anything. I think some of these routes were the same last year(SEA) but they weren’t loaded yet that I remember until now.
 
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stl07
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Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:25 pm

Planeboy17 wrote:
TWA1985 wrote:
Hi There,

Not to veere off the expansion conversation, but I’ve seen it mentioned several times on here that AA was expected to release a rather significant summer schedule overhaul for ORD by now, with frequency changes and aircraft upgauges. It appears the new schedule is out, however, so far I’m not seeing much in the way of changes. Was this all hype or am I merely looking at the wrong routes?

Thanks.


So just checking on AA for Thursday, July 26 I found the following changes. At least I think these are changes from what I remember seeing before.
SEA goes from 5 to 6 all 738.
PDX goes to 3 from 2 all 738.
SFO stays at 6 but a 2nd 32B operates.
SNA goes to 5 from 3 all 738.
PHX stays at 9 but all 321, no more 738s.
LAS gets 1 of 5 on a 32B.
DEN is 5 738s. I think that’s the most I can remember maybe ever for this route on AA.
DFW gets the 788 back.
AUS actually loses a mainline. E75 replaces it. Surprising.
SAT gets 2 738s out of 3 flights.
BOS goes to 11 with intro of 32B on the route.
IND gets a middle of the day 738 turn. I think that’s the first time that route gets mainline in a long time.
I could only find 2 domestic routes with wide bodies. DFW with 788 and MIA with 767.
MIA will have the only 76 and 75 routes I think.
STL continues to shrink, 6 flights with only 3 738 and the rest E75 or CR7.
MCI is basically the same schedule as STL,but that’s an up gauge. I don’t remember 3 mainline on there for a while.
That’s about all I could find that I thought was interesting. Some cities that I think would get mainline are still waiting are DTW, CLE, CMH, and JAX. I think DTW had some last year but I’m pretty sure the others haven’t had it in a long time.
Very little M80 flights as well. I’ll have to double check but I think I only saw them on MSP and RDU but I didn’t check every city.
Very little 319 flights. I only saw 1 PHL flight but again didn’t check JAC. They usually have one in the summer.
Love to see if anyone else can find anything else or correct me on anything. I think some of these routes were the same last year(SEA) but they weren’t loaded yet that I remember until now.

Especially on short hops like ORD-STL AA waits to add in extra frequencies/higher plane sizes until they can ensure the demand is there
 
chicawgo
Posts: 305
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:09 pm

Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:53 pm

ORDfan wrote:
The CDA put together a cool little video with the highlights of project. I like it....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB8uFIYskHA

Also there is a website for the project as well. Hopefully this stays updated throughout the course of the project. I will say this: I'm sure everything will look great once completed, but I am highly doubtful of the 8 year timeline. This seems like a 10-12 year project... at least, if past delays with the runway reconfiguration and CONRAC are any guide.

http://www.ord21.com


If you look at the full 200+ page plan recently posted and discussed it shows eventual tear down of T3 and people mover extending there with aligned concourses.

And what are you talking about delays? Every runway has delivered early and under budget! Can’t the city get some credit for this?
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:24 pm

Thought I'd bring forward the link to the 2000+ page document filed with the City of Chicago Office of the City Clerk - might answer some questions about the extent of the planing going on well into the future.
(This was previously posted by kngkyle in the "ORD $8.5B Expansion Deal..." thread viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1387457&start=300)

Here's the link:
https://chicago.legistar.com/Legislatio ... s=&Search=

Proceed to the tab "Legislation" & under tab "Details", click on "Attachment: 1" #02016-1124.pdf
warning- its a large file!

I've listed some of the many pages with schematics. Brief summaries of the work follows the drawings. Keep in mind its all rather preliminary - but some may find it interesting. "TAP" refers to Terminal Area Plan.

p320: Phase 1

p337: APM (Automated People Mover, I believe) Ped/Utility Tunnel

p363: TAP phase 1 elements (note: not necessarily in order of completion) and Additional TAP elements (including T-3 redevelopment, indicating a later project and one not defined in the schematic).

p364: APM completion including western terminals (satellites 3&4)

p367: Satellites 3 & 4 concourses

p.375: Renovation of B&C

p378: Satellite 1 N. Extension

p382: Concourse G Redevelopment

p 385: T-3 Redevelopment

...there's many more, including schematics for HVAC, luggage systems... & on and on.

I'd be happy to update it if I or anyone else finds pages of interest.

yeo
 
ADrum23
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Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:08 pm

ORDfan wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
Remember though, this is just Phase 1. Future phases will demolish today's Terminal 3 and replace it with additional island concourses to the west and a people mover to connect them. Eventually, everything outside of Terminal 5 will look like ATL does today. This will make the airport much easier for connections.


Where are you getting this about Phase 1 and the future demolition of T3? I haven't seen that mentioned in an official literature or the renderings?

Also, there is no way the city would allow the area that T3 occupies to go to waste or be empty. Maybe T3 will get revamped post-security side, but I doubt it will get demolished and/or that land will vacated.


This is in the 2,000 page document from the link above. It states that a future phase will include the demolition of T3 and the reconstruction of Concourse G to line it up with the future satellite concourses. The Terminal 3 capacity would presumably be replaced by the two new satellite concourses that will be built further west (that is also included in the future phase). This phase also includes the installation of the people mover and the expansion of the west parking/screening facility to accommodate passengers. Finally, according to the document, Phase 2 includes the demolition and reconstruction of the southern portion of Concourse C and the reconstruction of B.
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:41 pm

ADrum23 wrote:
ORDfan wrote:
... It states that a future phase will include the demolition of T3 and the reconstruction of Concourse G to line it up with the future satellite concourses. The Terminal 3 capacity would presumably be replaced by the two new satellite concourses that will be built further west (that is also included in the future phase). This phase also includes the installation of the people mover and the expansion of the west parking/screening facility to accommodate passengers. Finally, according to the document, Phase 2 includes the demolition and reconstruction of the southern portion of Concourse C and the reconstruction of B.


Just a clarification: it includes the extension of the people mover to the western development. By that time there will be a portion of the APM already built from the central facility (on site of the current T-2) to Satellite one (the add-on to the C gates) and to satellite two.

yeo
 
ORDfan
Topic Author
Posts: 428
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Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:25 am

chicawgo wrote:
And what are you talking about delays? Every runway has delivered early and under budget! Can’t the city get some credit for this?


Where are you getting that every runway was delivered early?

When it was first introduced in 2001, it was expected that the OMP was also going to take 8 years. Even after the city experienced a delay getting FAA approval, they still stuck with the 8 year time-frame. In 2005, after receiving FAA approval, the city still claimed that Phase 2 would be completed by 2013. It was not. Runway 9C-27C bids just went out two months ago.

"The City plans to implement the OMP in two phases over an 8-year period. Phase 1 and Phase 2 are scheduled to
be completed by 2009 and 2013, respectively."

https://www.faa.gov/airports/airport_de ... 005067.pdf

As of 2015, the city did not expect Phase 2 to be completed until 2021.

https://www.faa.gov/airports/airport_development/omp/

Similarly, the joint use facility/CONRAC was scheduled to be completed last year.

https://www.transportation.gov/tifia/fi ... e-facility

Image
 
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kordcj
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Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:27 pm

yeogeo wrote:
By the way... the airport employee facility mentioned above is visible as the large striped rectangular undefined space on the far west (left-hand) side of the overall site plan:
Image


all renderings can be found here:
http://www.flychicago.com/sites/ohare21 ... fault.aspx


In thus rendering it looks as though the extension of 9R/27L is not complete. The extension is a taxiway. Has the runway extension been shelved?
The most obvious proof for intelligent life in the universe is that they haven't tried to contact us.
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:13 pm

kordcj wrote:
In this rendering it looks as though the extension of 9R/27L is not complete. The extension is a taxiway. Has the runway extension been shelved?


Perhaps the illustrator wanted to highlight an extension to the existing 9R/17L by showing the extension and the existing in different colors? Do you think that they would illustrate a taxiway at the end of the runway just for symmetry? You might be reading too much in a preliminary illustration, kordcj, but prove me wrong; I'm all ears.

By the way, the FAA diagram now shows taxiway SS in place of 15/33
http://aeronav.faa.gov/d-tpp/1804/00166 ... ddest=(ORD)

Image

I wonder how long before the pavement is actually removed.
 
ual763
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Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:08 pm

O’hare is now getting an exotic bird sanctuary. This will be such a cool thing to have in an airport. ORD is becoming more and more like Singapore every day it seems! Definitely on it’s way to becoming a World Class Airport (Amenity wise)!
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
chicawgo
Posts: 305
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:09 pm

Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:31 pm

ual763 wrote:
O’hare is now getting an exotic bird sanctuary. This will be such a cool thing to have in an airport. ORD is becoming more and more like Singapore every day it seems! Definitely on it’s way to becoming a World Class Airport (Amenity wise)!


Is this April fools?
 
ual763
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Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:41 pm

chicawgo wrote:
ual763 wrote:
O’hare is now getting an exotic bird sanctuary. This will be such a cool thing to have in an airport. ORD is becoming more and more like Singapore every day it seems! Definitely on it’s way to becoming a World Class Airport (Amenity wise)!


Is this April fools?


I hope not! But Maybe?

Image
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
chicawgo
Posts: 305
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:09 pm

Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:10 pm

Feb is out. 26% increase international traffic?? Is that a typo?

Overall traffic up over 4% and even operations are up a few percent. If those numbers are correct... it's pretty impressive.

http://www.flychicago.com/SiteCollectio ... UMMARY.pdf
 
jcwr56
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Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:03 pm

chicawgo wrote:
Feb is out. 26% increase international traffic?? Is that a typo?

Overall traffic up over 4% and even operations are up a few percent. If those numbers are correct... it's pretty impressive.

http://www.flychicago.com/SiteCollectio ... UMMARY.pdf


This past Saturday T5 did around 22,000 inbound internationally. To put this into perspective, that wasn't even a high peak summer day last summer.
 
chicawgo
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Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:23 pm

jcwr56 wrote:
chicawgo wrote:
Feb is out. 26% increase international traffic?? Is that a typo?

Overall traffic up over 4% and even operations are up a few percent. If those numbers are correct... it's pretty impressive.

http://www.flychicago.com/SiteCollectio ... UMMARY.pdf


This past Saturday T5 did around 22,000 inbound internationally. To put this into perspective, that wasn't even a high peak summer day last summer.


Was there a special event or convention in town?? Customs is showing up 43% for February. How is this possible?
 
jcwr56
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Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:36 am

Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:54 pm

chicawgo wrote:
jcwr56 wrote:
chicawgo wrote:
Feb is out. 26% increase international traffic?? Is that a typo?

Overall traffic up over 4% and even operations are up a few percent. If those numbers are correct... it's pretty impressive.

http://www.flychicago.com/SiteCollectio ... UMMARY.pdf


This past Saturday T5 did around 22,000 inbound internationally. To put this into perspective, that wasn't even a high peak summer day last summer.


Was there a special event or convention in town?? Customs is showing up 43% for February. How is this possible?


Not to my knowledge but the numbers overall have been outstanding.
 
ADrum23
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Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:02 pm

jcwr56 wrote:
chicawgo wrote:
jcwr56 wrote:

This past Saturday T5 did around 22,000 inbound internationally. To put this into perspective, that wasn't even a high peak summer day last summer.


Was there a special event or convention in town?? Customs is showing up 43% for February. How is this possible?


Not to my knowledge but the numbers overall have been outstanding.


I wonder if the renewed optimism over the forthcoming improvements is leading airlines to launch new service to ORD.
 
jbs2886
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Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:05 pm

ADrum23 wrote:
jcwr56 wrote:
chicawgo wrote:

Was there a special event or convention in town?? Customs is showing up 43% for February. How is this possible?


Not to my knowledge but the numbers overall have been outstanding.


I wonder if the renewed optimism over the forthcoming improvements is leading airlines to launch new service to ORD.


That wouldn't have impacted the numbers in February.
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:13 pm

Chicago Tribune publishes a relatively positive editorial re O'Hare revitalization:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opin ... story.html

"It will take eight years, with the heavy construction set to begin by the end of 2019. We imagine there will be some inconveniences along the way. But in the end O’Hare will be better, and a new era for Chicago will arrive."

...& former (fired) Chicago Police Superintendent, now mayoral challenger, Garry McCarthy floats idea of a casino as one of the new improvements for O'Hare - in the face of a skeptical SunTimes article:

https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/mccar ... rt-casino/
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:53 pm

In apparently just another episode of a long-running feud between the bond credit rating business and Mayor Emanuel, Moody's has declared the O'Hare Project "Credit Negative".

"If, as expected, the city borrows against future landing fees, terminal rents and concession revenues to bankroll the entire project, O’Hare’s debt load will rise to $14.5 billion by 2022. That’s “well above the increase” at other major airports, Moody’s
said."

&

"Although airlines can pass increases to passengers, we think cost increases that are significantly higher than the increases of rival airports will diminish profitability and increases the risk of losing connecting services in the future.”



https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/moody ... -negative/
 
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kngkyle
Moderator
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Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:23 am

jcwr56 wrote:
chicawgo wrote:
Feb is out. 26% increase international traffic?? Is that a typo?

Overall traffic up over 4% and even operations are up a few percent. If those numbers are correct... it's pretty impressive.

http://www.flychicago.com/SiteCollectio ... UMMARY.pdf


This past Saturday T5 did around 22,000 inbound internationally. To put this into perspective, that wasn't even a high peak summer day last summer.


What is driving the large increase?

As someone else mentioned, February reported international traffic came in at 900k. The highest February ever was 753k.
 
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JackMeahoff
Posts: 72
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Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:18 am

william wrote:
After T2 is built which terminal gets renovated or replaced next? One would think T3, but T1 looks to the easier of the two to rebuild. One would think the Airport would want the midfield terminals build out completed before finding room for displaced AA when rebuilding T3 or move them to the west terminal complex. AA will have a spit operation using midfield concourses to the west of United's and whatever replacement occupies the T3 spot.

Image



That looks incredible...

I hope there is money to rebuild that parking garage, which is falling apart.
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:23 pm

Market Watch (forgotten all about them- they're still publishing, I guess) has an article on Moody's recent "credit negative" rating. Nothing new, really, but the headline photo made me laugh: a stock photo of O'Hare 20 years ago with UA planes in battleship gray. Nothing like an outdated photograph to say "Marketwatch: we're out of touch".

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/ohare ... 2018-04-06

The author, Rachel Koning Beals also uses a phrase which makes me wonder what she means, exactly:
"O’Hare consistently is listed as one of the world’s best-connected and busiest airports, but those numbers are padded in part by a large number of regional flights. ..."
(She uses the exact same phrase in an earlier article on the ORD expansion:
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/what- ... 2018-02-26)

I don't understand how 50-75 seat jets "pad" numbers? I suppose I'm naively looking for actual well-reasoned writing instead of some barely disguised other-regional chauvinism. Maybe someone here can explain.
 
ORDfan
Topic Author
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Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:29 pm

kngkyle wrote:

What is driving the large increase?

As someone else mentioned, February reported international traffic came in at 900k. The highest February ever was 753k.


I don't have any concrete answers, but I do know the Ag industry had several informal meetings in February that involved a lot of high-level execs and traders and CME reps. Many of the large Japanese, Korean, Swiss, and Singaporean conglomerates were in town. One of them just opened a Chicago headquarters. I think this industry is often-overlooked in Chicago, but much like Houston with oil & gas, Chicago is the center of the agriculture and derivatives trading universe. Also, CAT opened up their headquarters in January and it wouldn't shock me if a lot of VIPs were coming for visits.
 
chidino
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Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:49 pm

@yeogeo You are exactly right: OAG named Chicago #4 World/#1 U.S. "Mega Airport": they define that as an airport with the highest ratio of possible scheduled international connections to the number of destinations served by the airport. That's just a pure example of the reporter's inaccuracy or axe to grind as opposed to numbers, reflected in a straightforward ratio like OAG's.
 
ADrum23
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Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:22 am

On a side note, what are they doing to the ATS at O’Hare? I know they are extending it to the new CONRAC, but I heard they are upgrading the existing system as well. Does that mean they are replacing the cars/tracks or simply refurbishing the existing system?
 
chicawgo
Posts: 305
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Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:41 am

ADrum23 wrote:
On a side note, what are they doing to the ATS at O’Hare? I know they are extending it to the new CONRAC, but I heard they are upgrading the existing system as well. Does that mean they are replacing the cars/tracks or simply refurbishing the existing system?


They’re doubling the number of cars so they’ll be able to run every 1-2 minutes. Also I believe they’re doing some infrastructure and software upgrades.
 
jcwr56
Posts: 826
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:36 am

Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:42 pm

kngkyle wrote:
jcwr56 wrote:
chicawgo wrote:
Feb is out. 26% increase international traffic?? Is that a typo?

Overall traffic up over 4% and even operations are up a few percent. If those numbers are correct... it's pretty impressive.

http://www.flychicago.com/SiteCollectio ... UMMARY.pdf


This past Saturday T5 did around 22,000 inbound internationally. To put this into perspective, that wasn't even a high peak summer day last summer.


What is driving the large increase?

As someone else mentioned, February reported international traffic came in at 900k. The highest February ever was 753k.


A week later (yesterday) T5 did around 22,000 in and 7.5K out.

WS, AY, AZ still need to start and in May F9 moves over to T5. By June, with ET starting, on the aggregate it's about 20 additional daily flights into T5 Summer '18 over Summer '17.
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:35 pm

jcwr56 wrote:
WS, AY, AZ still need to start and in May F9 moves over to T5. By June, with ET starting, on the aggregate it's about 20 additional daily flights into T5 Summer '18 over Summer '17.


Hopefully T-5 can handle the traffic; its going to be quite the summer.
Aside from those you mentioned, BA's A-380 upguage, AA starting VCE, increased flights with LO (KRK/BUD), UA starting up DUB/EDI, Asiana going 5 to 7 weekly, Copa going from 14 to 18 weekly, Lufthansa going from 7 to 10 weekly from MUC... I may be missing some from this Spring/early summer. :scratchchin:

Did VivaAerobus ever start CUN?

yeo
 
ADrum23
Posts: 1789
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:59 pm

chicawgo wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
On a side note, what are they doing to the ATS at O’Hare? I know they are extending it to the new CONRAC, but I heard they are upgrading the existing system as well. Does that mean they are replacing the cars/tracks or simply refurbishing the existing system?


They’re doubling the number of cars so they’ll be able to run every 1-2 minutes. Also I believe they’re doing some infrastructure and software upgrades.


So are they completing reconstructing/replacing the current system (tracks, stations and everything) or are they simply replacing the cars and refurbishing the existing infrastructure?
 
Planeboy17
Posts: 99
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:18 am

Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:02 pm

yeogeo wrote:
jcwr56 wrote:
WS, AY, AZ still need to start and in May F9 moves over to T5. By June, with ET starting, on the aggregate it's about 20 additional daily flights into T5 Summer '18 over Summer '17.


Hopefully T-5 can handle the traffic; its going to be quite the summer.
Aside from those you mentioned, BA's A-380 upguage, AA starting VCE, increased flights with LO (KRK/BUD), UA starting up DUB/EDI, Asiana going 5 to 7 weekly, Copa going from 14 to 18 weekly, Lufthansa going from 7 to 10 weekly from MUC... I may be missing some from this Spring/early summer. :scratchchin:

Did VivaAerobus ever start CUN?



yeo

Yes on VivaAerobus. They fly once a week to CUN on Sunday mornings.
EDI and DUB are seasonal resumptions on UA. They actually dropped SNN this summer.
The ATS has been shutting down sometime in the evening to do track work and they are getting new cars as well.
You can actually see the new ones parked over on the east side of the T5 at the ATS track house. They are blue in color with the Chicago red stars across it. Not sure when they enter service.
When the T5 expansion begins I’d imagine they will lose a couple of the gates on the east end like M21 and 20?
Are they going to wait until the summer season ends before beginning that?
 
globalcabotage
Posts: 534
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:42 pm

Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:35 pm

Is it me, or does the new "Global T-2" seem to lack enough international gates? Of course this is just conceptual, but it doesn't look great for 1 and * carriers.
 
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kngkyle
Moderator
Posts: 489
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 3:33 am

Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:36 pm

globalcabotage wrote:
Is it me, or does the new "Global T-2" seem to lack enough international gates? Of course this is just conceptual, but it doesn't look great for 1 and * carriers.


The first satellite terminal is also international gates with CBP processing.
 
beeweel15
Posts: 993
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2003 12:59 am

Re: Chicago aviation news - 2018

Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:37 pm

What about Chicago/Gary Airport in Gary, Indiana. How far is it from downtown Chicago and is it worth it to fly there to get to Chicago. What other alternate airports are there to serve the city
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