timberwolf24
Posts: 512
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:29 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
timberwolf24 wrote:
Anyone know when T5 expansion is to start? Also any roumors about new service to ORD or MDW for 2019?


MDW Had Rumors is WestJet or Swoon service in 2019.
Other than that.
Allegiant has Been actively putting up adding MDW service up over Gary. Few months ago it seemed as MDW won the battle against Gary but nothing new come about since.
Speculation was if they do come to MDW it would be by November or December 2018.

Also talk that MDW airport has agreed to Let's WN pay for DL to relocate to Gates A14/A16.
WN will be taking over gates A5/A9.
Then will redo the gate areas , jet bridges and adding a connecting walkway to the international arrivals area by gate A3.
This will give WN the ability to have international swing gates cut down Turn and aircraft ground times by 70% and increase international flights by 20% at MDW.
During the gate reconstruction WN will temporarily use gate s C1 and C3.
This is all predicted to happen between 2019/20

MDW new checkpoint is coming along a steady pace. Looks like their getting things ready to break ground on the new Park lot over CTA yard.

Flyguy


It would be nice to see more international service at MDW. And nice to see WN looking to boost service. I felt that MDW was being passed over by WN on recent expansion by them.
It would be interesting to see Allegiant at MDW and routes they would start.
Living in LA, ORD/MDW will always be home!
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:26 pm

Noticed this recently downloaded photo in the Airliner's database of American Airlines 767 N345AN stored at O'Hare. This is the aircraft which suffered an engine fire at O'Hare as AA 393 on 10/28/2016



Wondering where the a/c is parked - I haven't noticed it.
The craft seems lightly damaged from this viewpoint, although I know its wingless on the starboard side:

Image
 
ORDfan
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:43 pm

yeogeo wrote:
Noticed this recently downloaded photo in the Airliner's database of American Airlines 767 N345AN stored at O'Hare. This is the aircraft which suffered an engine fire at O'Hare as AA 393 on 10/28/2016



Wondering where the a/c is parked - I haven't noticed it.
The craft seems lightly damaged from this viewpoint, although I know its wingless on the starboard side:

Image


Good catch...I hadn't noticed that one in the database yet. I'm pretty sure it's parked near the fire & rescue training control center apron near 9L/27R. At least I have seen it there before as recently as a couple weeks ago.

You can see it driving down I-90. I'll double-check tonight if it's still there. In fact, I was wondering if the plan is for it to be used for future training? Since it was written off, I wonder if AA donated it the fire department?
 
sdh9
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:58 pm

ORDfan wrote:
yeogeo wrote:
Noticed this recently downloaded photo in the Airliner's database of American Airlines 767 N345AN stored at O'Hare. This is the aircraft which suffered an engine fire at O'Hare as AA 393 on 10/28/2016



Wondering where the a/c is parked - I haven't noticed it.
The craft seems lightly damaged from this viewpoint, although I know its wingless on the starboard side:

Image


Good catch...I hadn't noticed that one in the database yet. I'm pretty sure it's parked near the fire & rescue training control center apron near 9L/27R. At least I have seen it there before as recently as a couple weeks ago.

You can see it driving down I-90. I'll double-check tonight if it's still there. In fact, I was wondering if the plan is for it to be used for future training? Since it was written off, I wonder if AA donated it the fire department?


It’s roughly at the intersection of M2 and the old 14L.
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:57 pm

ORDfan wrote:
...it's parked near the fire & rescue training control center apron near 9L/27R. At least I have seen it there before as recently as a couple weeks ago.


sdh9 wrote:
It’s roughly at the intersection of M2 and the old 14L.


Ah, Thanks! I'll look for it next time I'm taxiing in the area.
 
jplatts
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:43 pm

timberwolf24 wrote:
It would be nice to see more international service at MDW. And nice to see WN looking to boost service. I felt that MDW was being passed over by WN on recent expansion by them.


WN could add MDW-ELP and MDW-RIC nonstop service. In addition, WN could also add nonstop service to international destinations such as AUA, GCM, NAS, PLS, PVR, and SJO out of MDW on at least a seasonal basis.

Will WN announce MDW-ELP or MDW-RIC nonstop service on August 30th (when the next WN schedule extension will take place) or later this fall? Will WN announce nonstop service to additional international destinations out of MDW?
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:41 pm

ORDfan wrote:


I was wondering if the plan is for it to be used for future training? Since it was written off, I wonder if AA donated it the fire department?


Haven't yet removed the engine - I assume before donating it they'll tow the craft to an enclosed space to pick clean, at some point?
 
ORDfan
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:26 pm

Delta linking Raleigh-Durham and Chicago O’Hare with new nonstop service

https://news.delta.com/delta-linking-ra ... op-service

This is from a few weeks ago, but didn't see it posted in here. DL is launching 3x daily RDU-ORD. Seems like RDU-ORD are already "well-linked", but wish DL best of luck and happy to see them adding service.
 
planespotter20
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:21 pm

I’m pretty sure I read somewhere that the reason the ATS is taking so long is because of they are replacing all the tracks, not just extending. I’m not an expert by any means, and I’m not familiar with Chicagoan politics, but I see that a lot of you guys are pretty negative when it comes to the timeline. I hope they can complete the ATS by early/mid 2019 at the latest, and work starts late 2019 or early 2020. Then they have SIX years to get it done on schedule, and as far as I’m concerned, 6 years is a long time. Plenty of time to get the terminals built, T2 demolished, T5 expanded, and T1/3 modernized.

The lack of information allows us to paint a far darker picture than what the reality is.

Optimism.
 
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United787
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:38 pm

planespotter20 wrote:
The lack of information allows us to paint a far darker picture than what the reality is.


The CDA could learn something that the airlines still haven't always figured out: communicate, communicate, communicate.
 
ADrum23
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:20 pm

planespotter20 wrote:
I’m pretty sure I read somewhere that the reason the ATS is taking so long is because of they are replacing all the tracks, not just extending. I’m not an expert by any means, and I’m not familiar with Chicagoan politics, but I see that a lot of you guys are pretty negative when it comes to the timeline. I hope they can complete the ATS by early/mid 2019 at the latest, and work starts late 2019 or early 2020. Then they have SIX years to get it done on schedule, and as far as I’m concerned, 6 years is a long time. Plenty of time to get the terminals built, T2 demolished, T5 expanded, and T1/3 modernized.

The lack of information allows us to paint a far darker picture than what the reality is.

Optimism.


The problem is the ATS was suppose to be done this year, now they are saying it is going to take a whole additional year.

And they haven't even revealed what exactly they are doing where the whole system needs to shut down M-F. I don't think they are replacing all the tracks because if they were, that would require a shutdown 24/7 indefinitely.

Finally, the T5 expansion was suppose to be underway already, what happened there?
 
planespotter20
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:36 pm

ADrum23 wrote:
Finally, the T5 expansion was suppose to be underway already, what happened there?


Maybe, they figured it would be more cost effective if major construction started all at once, so they delayed T5 until work can begin on the rest of the terminals. That’s just speculation, but it might make sense. Again, I’m no expert; just a speculative teen with a passion for airports.

I really wish the CDA would open up a little bit more. Maybe they’re so quiet because even they don’t know what they’re doing. It’s all a WIP. Hopefully once the architects start drafting we’ll start getting some more info.
 
ADrum23
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:46 pm

Any word if DL is going to put a new Sky Club in the T5 expansion and what that might look like?
 
ORDfan
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:25 am

yeogeo wrote:
ORDfan wrote:
...it's parked near the fire & rescue training control center apron near 9L/27R. At least I have seen it there before as recently as a couple weeks ago.


sdh9 wrote:
It’s roughly at the intersection of M2 and the old 14L.


Ah, Thanks! I'll look for it next time I'm taxiing in the area.


Yep it's still there. North side of the airfield right by the ARFF training area.

planespotter20 wrote:
I’m pretty sure I read somewhere that the reason the ATS is taking so long is because of they are replacing all the tracks, not just extending. I’m not an expert by any means, and I’m not familiar with Chicagoan politics, but I see that a lot of you guys are pretty negative when it comes to the timeline. I hope they can complete the ATS by early/mid 2019 at the latest, and work starts late 2019 or early 2020. Then they have SIX years to get it done on schedule, and as far as I’m concerned, 6 years is a long time. Plenty of time to get the terminals built, T2 demolished, T5 expanded, and T1/3 modernized.

The lack of information allows us to paint a far darker picture than what the reality is.

Optimism.


It's not really the lack of information, it's because airport/city infrastructure watchers are making these comments based on past precedent...based on past experiences with blown deadlines and past-due projects.

Most folks on here who keep tabs on city projects (especially airport stuff) know that several of the last parts of OMP are way behind schedule, as is the CONRAC, as is the T5 expansion. Full credit to the city for MDW so far, however. As of now, that looks like it's progressing relatively nicely.

However overall, it's natural, even logical I'd say, to have doubts on the city's timeline.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Total side-note: can anyone tell me what's going on with LX 7 this summer? I swear this was a 77W today and I've seen the 77W numerous times over the past several weeks; but every time I check FlightAware or Flightradar, it shows as A333?

I'm 100% certain it was a 77W tonight and other nights. Did LX upguage a few of days of the week or are they equipment-swapping that frequently that FA and FR are not getting it. Any guesses ??

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/SWR7

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/lx7
 
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kordcj
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:39 am

Are you sure it’s not LX9? That flight leaves for ZRH at 1910 and it is a 77W.
Edited a few typos
The most obvious proof for intelligent life in the universe is that they haven't tried to contact us.
 
ORDfan
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:27 pm

kordcj wrote:
Are you sure it’s not LX9? That flight leaves for ZRH at 1910 and it is a 77W.
Edited a few typos


You are absolutely right!

I had to go back and check the summer schedule is 12x weekly, 6x A333 and 6x 77W... I didn't realize which was which: :oops:

Thanks for that though, whew.
 
ckfred
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:19 pm

ADrum23 wrote:
ckfred wrote:
I live in DuPage County, and I don't feel the need for the City to build a terminal on the west side of the field, let alone western access. If the City puts parking for passengers on the west side, how does that area get connected to the terminals? I have yet to see any proposal about running the ATS either around the north side of the field from the new rental car garage or running a tunnel under the field to the west side. Building a terminal become even more problematic, in that besides connecting passengers and possibly crews (who probably don't want to reclear security), you have to figure out how to get connecting bags and freight between the western terminal and the other terminals.


Like I've said, there isn't going to be a "western terminal" per say, rather, the terminals (minus T5) will be reconfigured into an ATL-style concourse layout over time (long overdue if you ask me), with concourses going from east to west, like this.

Image

An APM will be installed once additional concourses beyond Satellite 2 are built, which they will begin work on once ORD hits 100,000,000 pax. This APM will go to the new Western Parking/Screening facility, which would be expanded to accommodate passengers. There will not be any issues with connecting pax and freight/bags because essentially, ORD will be consolidated into two terminals in this new layout, UA/AA and their partners in the main terminal and everyone else in what is today known as Terminal 5 (presumably, when this layout unfolds, O'Hare will rename the terminals accordingly). There will be little to no connecting between the terminals as a result.

As someone who lived in Kane County for many years, western access is long overdue. The east side of ORD incredibly congested and is not convenient for anyone living more than 10 minutes away from the airport.


Yes, the east side of ORD gets congested, but that is mainly for traffic leaving the airport, and that could easily be rectified with widening I-190. Considering that the project to rebuild the portion of I-294 that goes past ORD will start within a few years, that would be the perfect time to widen I-190, since the interchange will be part of the I-294 project.

The real problem with trying to build out the terminal complex, ala ATL or DEN, is that Runway 4L becomes departure only, and 22R becomes arrival only. A friend of mine is a captain with AA, and he says that ORD becomes very delay prone, when there are strong crosswinds that force traffic out of the east-west arrival and departure patterns. If there is a strong wind from the north, and a lot of aircraft are over their crosswind limits, that is putting a lot of traffic on 4R.

That isn't so much a problem, say from May to October, but it becomes a problem from November to April.
 
ADrum23
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:58 pm

ckfred wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
ckfred wrote:
I live in DuPage County, and I don't feel the need for the City to build a terminal on the west side of the field, let alone western access. If the City puts parking for passengers on the west side, how does that area get connected to the terminals? I have yet to see any proposal about running the ATS either around the north side of the field from the new rental car garage or running a tunnel under the field to the west side. Building a terminal become even more problematic, in that besides connecting passengers and possibly crews (who probably don't want to reclear security), you have to figure out how to get connecting bags and freight between the western terminal and the other terminals.


Like I've said, there isn't going to be a "western terminal" per say, rather, the terminals (minus T5) will be reconfigured into an ATL-style concourse layout over time (long overdue if you ask me), with concourses going from east to west, like this.

Image

An APM will be installed once additional concourses beyond Satellite 2 are built, which they will begin work on once ORD hits 100,000,000 pax. This APM will go to the new Western Parking/Screening facility, which would be expanded to accommodate passengers. There will not be any issues with connecting pax and freight/bags because essentially, ORD will be consolidated into two terminals in this new layout, UA/AA and their partners in the main terminal and everyone else in what is today known as Terminal 5 (presumably, when this layout unfolds, O'Hare will rename the terminals accordingly). There will be little to no connecting between the terminals as a result.

As someone who lived in Kane County for many years, western access is long overdue. The east side of ORD incredibly congested and is not convenient for anyone living more than 10 minutes away from the airport.


Yes, the east side of ORD gets congested, but that is mainly for traffic leaving the airport, and that could easily be rectified with widening I-190. Considering that the project to rebuild the portion of I-294 that goes past ORD will start within a few years, that would be the perfect time to widen I-190, since the interchange will be part of the I-294 project.

The real problem with trying to build out the terminal complex, ala ATL or DEN, is that Runway 4L becomes departure only, and 22R becomes arrival only. A friend of mine is a captain with AA, and he says that ORD becomes very delay prone, when there are strong crosswinds that force traffic out of the east-west arrival and departure patterns. If there is a strong wind from the north, and a lot of aircraft are over their crosswind limits, that is putting a lot of traffic on 4R.

That isn't so much a problem, say from May to October, but it becomes a problem from November to April.


The I-294 reconstruction/widening will be from Balmoral Ave south, so no work will be done on the I-190 interchange. I-190 is under the jurisdiction of IDOT, and considering how incompetent they are, don't expect a widening of I-190 anytime soon. Even so, that still won't solve the issue of people coming from the west.

I didn't realize 4L/22R was that necessary. That's a problem if what you say is true, because conventional wisdom would be that runway really should be eliminated.
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:43 pm

Amsterdam – Chicago O’Hare 747-400COMBI/787-9 operating, replacing 747-400COMBI/777-200ER. 787-9 operates on following days:
02APR19 – 14JUL19 Day 246
eff 15JUL19 Day x246

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... e-20180816
 
ORDfan
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:00 pm

yeogeo wrote:
Amsterdam – Chicago O’Hare 747-400COMBI/787-9 operating, replacing 747-400COMBI/777-200ER. 787-9 operates on following days:
02APR19 – 14JUL19 Day 246
eff 15JUL19 Day x246

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... e-20180816


Whew, glad to see the 744 combi will still be a regular next year!

In other news: two United mainline birds clipped wings down at the end of C pier. Wonder if this was the tug crew's fault or the pilots? I'm surprised they got the pax on another plane within an hour.

https://abc7chicago.com/2-united-planes ... c/3966986/
 
ckfred
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:46 pm

ADrum23 wrote:
ckfred wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:

Like I've said, there isn't going to be a "western terminal" per say, rather, the terminals (minus T5) will be reconfigured into an ATL-style concourse layout over time (long overdue if you ask me), with concourses going from east to west, like this.

Image

An APM will be installed once additional concourses beyond Satellite 2 are built, which they will begin work on once ORD hits 100,000,000 pax. This APM will go to the new Western Parking/Screening facility, which would be expanded to accommodate passengers. There will not be any issues with connecting pax and freight/bags because essentially, ORD will be consolidated into two terminals in this new layout, UA/AA and their partners in the main terminal and everyone else in what is today known as Terminal 5 (presumably, when this layout unfolds, O'Hare will rename the terminals accordingly). There will be little to no connecting between the terminals as a result.

As someone who lived in Kane County for many years, western access is long overdue. The east side of ORD incredibly congested and is not convenient for anyone living more than 10 minutes away from the airport.


Yes, the east side of ORD gets congested, but that is mainly for traffic leaving the airport, and that could easily be rectified with widening I-190. Considering that the project to rebuild the portion of I-294 that goes past ORD will start within a few years, that would be the perfect time to widen I-190, since the interchange will be part of the I-294 project.

The real problem with trying to build out the terminal complex, ala ATL or DEN, is that Runway 4L becomes departure only, and 22R becomes arrival only. A friend of mine is a captain with AA, and he says that ORD becomes very delay prone, when there are strong crosswinds that force traffic out of the east-west arrival and departure patterns. If there is a strong wind from the north, and a lot of aircraft are over their crosswind limits, that is putting a lot of traffic on 4R.

That isn't so much a problem, say from May to October, but it becomes a problem from November to April.


The I-294 reconstruction/widening will be from Balmoral Ave south, so no work will be done on the I-190 interchange. I-190 is under the jurisdiction of IDOT, and considering how incompetent they are, don't expect a widening of I-190 anytime soon. Even so, that still won't solve the issue of people coming from the west.

I didn't realize 4L/22R was that necessary. That's a problem if what you say is true, because conventional wisdom would be that runway really should be eliminated.


I had to fly to New York, back in March, 2004. New York had a snowstorm that morning, and AA had been proactively cancelling morning flights. ORD had a beautiful day, clear and temperatures in the low 40s, but the winds were from the southwest at 20mph, gusting to 35mph. So, 22R and 22L were operating with both arrivals and departures. It was weird to see aircraft taxiing out to 22R, as well as seeing aircraft landing on 22L.

It seems to me that strong winds from the southwest or south tend to occur during a period of storms, summer or winter. But, it can easily blow from the north or northeast during a storm or with clear skies from late fall to early spring. When the concept of adding more east-west runways was first proposed, leaving the southwest-northeast runways was included.
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:05 pm

"O'Hare put diners in middle of departure-gate action" -Chicago Business Journal profiles a new Wicker Park restaurant and Starbucks in the C gates of Terminal one, just opened.

https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/new ... j=83338561
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:52 pm

Ethiopian is sending to O'Hare a 77L from ADD/DUB today - a first, I believe.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/et510
 
Planeboy17
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:04 pm

yeogeo wrote:
Ethiopian is sending to O'Hare a 77L from ADD/DUB today - a first, I believe.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/et510

Good catch! Either the route is exceeding expectations or there’s a mx issue with the 787. I’m guessing the latter but hopefully the route is performing well also.
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:13 pm

It seems another A340 flight at O'Hare bites the dust: SAS's CPH-ORD transitions to A330 service next year:

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... e-20180821

 
CHI787ORD
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:24 pm

yeogeo wrote:
It seems another A340 flight at O'Hare bites the dust: SAS's CPH-ORD transitions to A330 service next year:

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... e-20180821



Too bad, but these birds are pretty old. I really like the two SK flights though, the later departure to Europe really helps with sleeping and the new cabins on SK's planes are great.
 
CHI787ORD
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:34 pm

yeogeo wrote:
Ethiopian is sending to O'Hare a 77L from ADD/DUB today - a first, I believe.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/et510



Anyone know how this route is doing?
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:37 pm

email today from the CDA... another piece of the puzzle

Image

What's a triturator building exactly? A place for grinding?
 
BEG2IAH
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:57 pm

yeogeo wrote:
It seems another A340 flight at O'Hare bites the dust: SAS's CPH-ORD transitions to A330 service next year:


Thank God! :) SAS A343 is extremely noisy (which I don't care) but my wife and my whole neighbourhood go nuts about it every night. That thing really is a super slow climber. It only remotely compares to a fully loaded cargo B744 which takes a while to climb away. On the other hand, you can totally recognize B748, B787, or A350. It's a whisper compared to all other aircraft.

And if you are asking how I know what's flying above, I'm using PF AR app.
Flying at the cruising altitude is (mostly) boring. I wish all flights were nothing but endless take offs and landings every 10 minutes or so.
 
Blerg
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:46 pm

AA just announced ORD-ATH on the Dreamliner for next summer.
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:52 pm

Blerg wrote:
AA just announced ORD-ATH on the Dreamliner for next summer.

...and the discontinuation of ORD-PVG.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/br ... expansion/

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1401983
 
ORDfan
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:07 pm

yeogeo wrote:
"O'Hare put diners in middle of departure-gate action" -Chicago Business Journal profiles a new Wicker Park restaurant and Starbucks in the C gates of Terminal one, just opened.

https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/new ... j=83338561


I like the idea, but not sure I'm crazy about the execution. I've been saying for years that ORD needed more dining/drinking options with tarmac views (a la Frankfurt), but not sure it should come at the expense of gate seats. That could get tacky. Furthermore, I can't quite make it out, but did this restaurant frost out the terminal windows or is that a dummy wall? Haven't been through this part of T1 yet but am curious to see what they did: if they frosted out the windows, I'm going to be really disappointed.


Image

yeogeo wrote:
mail today from the CDA... another piece of the puzzle

Image

What's a triturator building exactly? A place for grinding?



Woah this is kind of a big deal. Definitely more than a little late, but at least some progress.
 
AMollenhauer9
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:08 pm

Japan is adding 4 more weekly flights from June to September of next year. Either 77W or 787-8 I would guess.
 
ORDfan
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:18 pm

yeogeo wrote:
It seems another A340 flight at O'Hare bites the dust: SAS's CPH-ORD transitions to A330 service next year:

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... e-20180821



I'm going to miss this bird, after seeing her all these years. Ya I know they are slow and getting old, but just nice to still have some of this 4-holer diversity here.

Blerg wrote:
AA just announced ORD-ATH on the Dreamliner for next summer.


yeogeo wrote:
...and the discontinuation of ORD-PVG.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/br ... expansion/

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1401983


Oh boy, AA ORD long-haul discussed ad nausem in the other thread. I really am lost as to what they are doing: so are they basically going to be seasonal-only ORD-TATL going forward, with a few exceptions like LHR and 3x NRT. Wow how the mighty have fallen. I guess look at AAL stock vs UAL: AAL down 23% on the year and UAL up 30% on the year. Ya, good job AAL...keep doing what you're doing.

BTW, did not see that ORD-ATH or PHL-DBV coming. +1 for the Mediterranean tourists though...
 
berari
Posts: 803
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:47 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:40 pm

Planeboy17 wrote:
yeogeo wrote:
Ethiopian is sending to O'Hare a 77L from ADD/DUB today - a first, I believe.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/et510

Good catch! Either the route is exceeding expectations or there’s a mx issue with the 787. I’m guessing the latter but hopefully the route is performing well also.


Indeed a first. Theoretically ET can get more feeds at ORD than in IAD.

Looking at a week and a half out from today, all flights into ORD have at most 3 seats in Y, so it's higher demand. Flights will revert back to the B788.

End of August is historically when one cannot find a seat on ET out of ADD to the US. Seats on flights to IAD, ORD, EWR, YYZ and LAX are quite scarce on ET until the end of the month.
 
Freshside3
Posts: 1590
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:11 am

Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:44 pm

Blerg wrote:
AA just announced ORD-ATH on the Dreamliner for next summer.


yeogeo wrote:
...and the discontinuation of ORD-PVG.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/br ... expansion/

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1401983


Oh boy, AA ORD long-haul discussed ad nausem in the other thread. I really am lost as to what they are doing: so are they basically going to be seasonal-only ORD-TATL going forward, with a few exceptions like LHR and 3x NRT. Wow how the mighty have fallen. I guess look at AAL stock vs UAL: AAL down 23% on the year and UAL up 30% on the year. Ya, good job AAL...keep doing what you're doing.

BTW, did not see that ORD-ATH or PHL-DBV coming. +1 for the Mediterranean tourists though...[/quote]

These types of routes have "no-brainers" for years. Many people in the Chicagoland area are connected to Mediterranean and Slavic Europe, in fact, a higher percentage than most other major US metropolitan areas. Both AA and UA(especially) have been ignorant of this demographic.

AA is to be commended for "waking up and smelling the coffee".

Where AA gains on ORD-ATH, is the number of people who switch their preferred US carrier.
 
ORDfan
Topic Author
Posts: 568
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 6:02 am

Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:11 am

Freshside3 wrote:

These types of routes have "no-brainers" for years. Many people in the Chicagoland area are connected to Mediterranean and Slavic Europe, in fact, a higher percentage than most other major US metropolitan areas. Both AA and UA(especially) have been ignorant of this demographic.

AA is to be commended for "waking up and smelling the coffee".

Where AA gains on ORD-ATH, is the number of people who switch their preferred US carrier.


Well hey, I am part of that demographic and I love visiting Croatia every year. And I am hoping to go to Greece next year. But honestly, connecting through AMS, CDG, FRA, MUC, VIE, CPH etc etc has never been easier. There are so many connecting flights now to Croatia and Greece from the EU majors that layovers less than 2 hours are the norm, and what's a quick 1 hour flight across the continent? The 1 stop never bothered me for for past 15 years and most of my family agree. It's not like in the early 90s when you had a 9 hour layover since there was only 1 flight/day. Today, it's a piece of cake.

And let's be honest, this is a dubious strategy for AA to yield to UA on high-yielding business traffic to Asia from ORD and focus on low-yield seasonal tourist routes. I get that competition between all the Chinese carriers + EVA + ANA/JAL to SE Asia is tough, but this tells me they are struggling with the Chicago business community (as I have been saying on this forum for years). To go 3x weekly to NRT, while huge global Japanese conglomerates like Sysmex, Kanematsu and Komatsu are growing like gang-busters in Chicagoland tells me AA management really are lost. Their shareholders seem to agree.
 
User avatar
yeogeo
Posts: 1252
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:53 pm

Perhaps I'm not the only one who missed this in the announcement yesterday: the discontinuation of AA's ORD-MAN seasonal service.

"American will drop seasonal nonstop service to Manchester, England from ORD, as it continues to focus on all-Dreamliner nonstop service to London’s Heathrow Airport from ORD."

https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/new ... j=83399961
 
Planeboy17
Posts: 345
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:18 am

Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:03 pm

yeogeo wrote:
Perhaps I'm not the only one who missed this in the announcement yesterday: the discontinuation of AA's ORD-MAN seasonal service.

"American will drop seasonal nonstop service to Manchester, England from ORD, as it continues to focus on all-Dreamliner nonstop service to London’s Heathrow Airport from ORD."

https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/new ... j=83399961

Yes, saw that in another thread.
Hoping UA or maybe even Thomas Cook will pick it up. It wasn’t very long ago that ORD-MAN had 2 carriers (AA, BM) with daily nonstop flights and now nada. Especially with so many west coast cities seeing service to MAN ( LAS, SEA, LAX, SFO).
 
ual763
Posts: 955
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 11:46 am

Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:51 pm

ORDfan wrote:
I like the idea, but not sure I'm crazy about the execution. I've been saying for years that ORD needed more dining/drinking options with tarmac views (a la Frankfurt), but not sure it should come at the expense of gate seats. That could get tacky. Furthermore, I can't quite make it out, but did this restaurant frost out the terminal windows or is that a dummy wall? Haven't been through this part of T1 yet but am curious to see what they did: if they frosted out the windows, I'm going to be really disappointed.


That’s just a dummy wall. Behind it, is the center of the concourse. Terminal windows are to the left and right and behind the cameraman.
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
ual763
Posts: 955
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 11:46 am

Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:02 pm

I haven’t been through O’hare in a while, but last week I flew in and had the damndest time trying to get to/find the hotel shuttle pick-up area. I started in the baggage area of T3. I saw signs for ground transportation, but this took me over a crosswalk and either down into the terminal train/onwards to the cta train/or emptying into the parking garage. There were absolutely no visible signs for “hotel shuttles”.

After 20minutes of going in circles, I looked at a map to try and find the shuttle center to make sure it was still near the Hilton. It still is. But, there were still no signs or instructions on how to get there. “Ground Transportation” sure as hell wasn’t it. So, I ended up just going into the parking garage, taking the elevator down to the first level and then walking a hundred yards or so to where I saw shuttles coming and going. No signs even in the parking garage for it. Luckily I found it.

I don’t know if it was like this before, but this was extremely frustrating for me, and I can imagine other travelers. The lack of signage is what really bothered me.

Will hotel shuttles (besides the airport Hilton), be moved to the new intermodal facility when finished?
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
UpNAWAy
Posts: 555
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:42 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:07 pm

So to be sure I understand the majority here flying routes that never made money is genius, bold and aggressive airline management and to stop flying routes that never made money and replacing them with ones likely to make money is a disaster and a retreat?
Do I have the correct understanding?
 
ORDfan
Topic Author
Posts: 568
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 6:02 am

Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:37 pm

UpNAWAy wrote:
So to be sure I understand the majority here flying routes that never made money is genius, bold and aggressive airline management and to stop flying routes that never made money and replacing them with ones likely to make money is a disaster and a retreat?
Do I have the correct understanding?


So if I'm AA management, instead of retreating and deferring to my main competitor at ORD, I would be trying like hell to figure out how UA is making money on routes where AA cannot make money. I think that is the point.

In case you were wondering: UAL is at all-time highs... yes you read that right, meanwhile AAL is flirting with 2 year lows. If you want to talk about profits and airline management: let's put that in perspective and assign credit (and blame) where they are due. You can't tell me AA is doing it right, while they are worst performing publicly-traded airline over its lifetime.

Every other major publicly traded airline in the US (LUV, UAL, DAL) has beaten AAL returns since 2006: UAL (up 148%), LUV (up 269%), DAL (up 184%), AAL (up 30%). It's certainly not bold and aggressive to be the perennial industry laggard.

I think whatever their ORD and p2p "strategy" for smaller hubs like PHX, CLT, and PHX has clearly not been working, and its certainly failed the test for profits and revenue growth, as indicted below. I am betting on more of the same for them.

Image

Image
 
User avatar
yeogeo
Posts: 1252
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:47 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:41 pm

ual763 wrote:
Will hotel shuttles (besides the airport Hilton), be moved to the new intermodal facility when finished?


Yes, that's the idea.

"As part of the overall project, the existing Airport Transit System (ATS), a 24-hour rail system that serves terminals and parking structures, is being extended to serve the new facility and a new ATS station connected to the consolidated rental car facility (CONRAC) is being constructed. In addition, a new bus plaza accommodating bus services, off-airport hotel, and other commercial shuttles will directly connect with the CONRAC."

https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ipd/project_pr ... ohare.aspx

ual763 wrote:
I haven’t been through O’hare in a while, but last week I flew in and had the damndest time trying to get to/find the hotel shuttle pick-up area... this was extremely frustrating for me, and I can imagine other travelers. The lack of signage is what really bothered me.


I rarely need to use off-airport lodging, but last winter I did and I had a similar experience. The CONRAC facility and ATS extension can't come soon enough, IMO
 
TWA1985
Posts: 646
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 3:24 am

Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:27 pm

I just did some random searches between ORD and LHR in December and it looks like the BA A380 is no more and reverts to a 777. Does anyone know if they had trouble filling it or if this is simply a seasonal adjustment?
Be Young. Be Wild. Be Free.
 
ADrum23
Posts: 1789
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:14 am

ORDfan wrote:
UpNAWAy wrote:
So to be sure I understand the majority here flying routes that never made money is genius, bold and aggressive airline management and to stop flying routes that never made money and replacing them with ones likely to make money is a disaster and a retreat?
Do I have the correct understanding?


So if I'm AA management, instead of retreating and deferring to my main competitor at ORD, I would be trying like hell to figure out how UA is making money on routes where AA cannot make money. I think that is the point.

In case you were wondering: UAL is at all-time highs... yes you read that right, meanwhile AAL is flirting with 2 year lows. If you want to talk about profits and airline management: let's put that in perspective and assign credit (and blame) where they are due. You can't tell me AA is doing it right, while they are worst performing publicly-traded airline over its lifetime.

Every other major publicly traded airline in the US (LUV, UAL, DAL) has beaten AAL returns since 2006: UAL (up 148%), LUV (up 269%), DAL (up 184%), AAL (up 30%). It's certainly not bold and aggressive to be the perennial industry laggard.

I think whatever their ORD and p2p "strategy" for smaller hubs like PHX, CLT, and PHX has clearly not been working, and its certainly failed the test for profits and revenue growth, as indicted below. I am betting on more of the same for them.

Image

Image


And Mr. Parker still has a job why?
 
User avatar
piedmontf284000
Posts: 412
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:00 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:02 am

TWA1985 wrote:
I just did some random searches between ORD and LHR in December and it looks like the BA A380 is no more and reverts to a 777. Does anyone know if they had trouble filling it or if this is simply a seasonal adjustment?


It's been a rough week for ORD.

The A380, like AA service to Asia, has vanished from ORD. BA will run a 777 and 744 during the winter. Summer will see BA utilize a 744 twice daily. FWIW, Fares to LHR for April, May, and June are currently running $500 R/T, so that might be an indication of their not wanting to run a premium heavy A380 back to ORD next year.
 
ADrum23
Posts: 1789
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:05 am

piedmontf284000 wrote:
TWA1985 wrote:
I just did some random searches between ORD and LHR in December and it looks like the BA A380 is no more and reverts to a 777. Does anyone know if they had trouble filling it or if this is simply a seasonal adjustment?


It's been a rough week for ORD.

The A380, like AA service to Asia, has vanished from ORD. BA will run a 777 and 744 during the winter. Summer will see BA utilize a 744 twice daily. FWIW, Fares to LHR for April, May, and June are currently running $500 R/T, so that might be an indication of their not wanting to run a premium heavy A380 back to ORD next year.


Does BA need two frequencies on ORD-LHR? Couldn’t they just cut one of them and run the A380 on the other?
 
sagechan
Posts: 322
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:14 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:16 am

ORDfan wrote:
UpNAWAy wrote:
So to be sure I understand the majority here flying routes that never made money is genius, bold and aggressive airline management and to stop flying routes that never made money and replacing them with ones likely to make money is a disaster and a retreat?
Do I have the correct understanding?


So if I'm AA management, instead of retreating and deferring to my main competitor at ORD, I would be trying like hell to figure out how UA is making money on routes where AA cannot make money. I think that is the point.

In case you were wondering: UAL is at all-time highs... yes you read that right, meanwhile AAL is flirting with 2 year lows. If you want to talk about profits and airline management: let's put that in perspective and assign credit (and blame) where they are due. You can't tell me AA is doing it right, while they are worst performing publicly-traded airline over its lifetime.

Every other major publicly traded airline in the US (LUV, UAL, DAL) has beaten AAL returns since 2006: UAL (up 148%), LUV (up 269%), DAL (up 184%), AAL (up 30%). It's certainly not bold and aggressive to be the perennial industry laggard.

I think whatever their ORD and p2p "strategy" for smaller hubs like PHX, CLT, and PHX has clearly not been working, and its certainly failed the test for profits and revenue growth, as indicted below. I am betting on more of the same for them.

Image

Image


While I personally believe Parker fails when it comes to trying to focus on creating a true world class product, by under investing in standardization, upping soft product quality, and failing to get labor relations improved. I also find this post to be very disingenuous by using a 2006 baseline. AA was the only major airline to (stupidly) not go through CH11 reorganization post 9/11 and the AA/US merger was years later than DL/NW & UA/CO. Looking at returns straight up over that period is not a valid comparison. Recent results are mostly comparable, though one would expect there is still some gains to be made from final implementation of merger issues in the near future, and post 2020 fleet reliability improvements as some unreliable fleets exit.
717, 733, 734, 738, 744, 752, 763, 772, 77W, 789, A319, A320, A321, A332, A333, A359, MD88, CRJ, CR7, CR9, DH1, DH2, DH3, S340, ER4, E170, E175, E190/CO, NW, US, AC, NH, AA, UA, DL, WN, WS, SK, VY, LA, QF, AR, AV, MH, KA
 
User avatar
yeogeo
Posts: 1252
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:47 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:38 pm

piedmontf284000 wrote:
It's been a rough week for ORD. The A380, like AA service to Asia, has vanished from ORD. BA will run a 777 and 744 during the winter. Summer will see BA utilize a 744 twice daily.


Not quite "vanished". BA296 operates the A380 through October 26. AA will still operate ORD-NRT at reduced frequency. I think you're indulging in just a bit of hyperbole, pedmontf.
You're right about next summer: I see both flights as 747's. We'll see if that sticks.

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