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jplatts
Posts: 1903
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:22 pm

FA9295 wrote:
They appear to be cutting routes with more competition and moving the flights to routes with less competition. For example, when LAX-DFW was axed, they added LAX-EUG and LAX-MSN.


I think that one reason why UA is dropping LAX-DFW is that AA is the dominant carrier at both LAX and DFW in addition to AA having hubs at both LAX and DFW. Another reason is that Dallas already has nonstop service from LAX on DL, NK, WN, and AS in addition to AA and UA. In addition, many of those traveling to Greater Los Angeles from the DFW Metroplex prefer to do so on AA or WN.
 
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FA9295
Posts: 1378
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:44 pm

Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:30 pm

jplatts wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
They appear to be cutting routes with more competition and moving the flights to routes with less competition. For example, when LAX-DFW was axed, they added LAX-EUG and LAX-MSN.


I think that one reason why UA is dropping LAX-DFW is that AA is the dominant carrier at both LAX and DFW in addition to AA having hubs at both LAX and DFW. Another reason is that Dallas already has nonstop service from LAX on DL, NK, WN, and AS in addition to AA and UA. In addition, many of those traveling to Greater Los Angeles from the DFW Metroplex prefer to do so on AA or WN.

That's very true. I seriously doubt that UA's LAX-DFW flights were actually used for people traveling between LAX and DFW, unless if the fares were extremely cheap, and I don't think UA ever made their flights any cheaper than AA, DL and NK have.

The flights were there just to try and steal some of AA's connecting passengers at lower fares. But in the end, the ongoing price war on that route just wasn't worth it for them, and connecting passengers through their much stronger hub at SFO seems more viable for them.
No, "FA" in my username does not stand for "flight attendant"...
 
Fargo
Posts: 131
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:00 am

Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:53 am

How big will DEN get long term? with the 11 new gates, could we see 600+ flights in the next decade?
 
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AVENSAB727
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:05 pm

Always look on the bright side of Life!
 
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LAXintl
Posts: 23036
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:07 pm

First international 787-10 routes for summer 2019

EWR-FRA & TLV eff 3.30
EWR-BCN & CDG eff 4/29
EWR-BRU & DUB eff 5/22
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
fun2fly
Posts: 1343
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:44 am

Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:25 pm

LAXintl wrote:
First international 787-10 routes for summer 2019

EWR-FRA & TLV eff 3.30
EWR-BCN & CDG eff 4/29
EWR-BRU & DUB eff 5/22


First of all, I'll miss the 78J on the CDG lane by 2 days...not cool.

On the TLV route, will it replace the 772 or the 77W? Might see a few new 77W's routes then also. For sure some domestic 772A's freed up.
 
dmstorm22
Posts: 375
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:49 pm

Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:28 pm

LAXintl wrote:
First international 787-10 routes for summer 2019

EWR-FRA & TLV eff 3.30
EWR-BCN & CDG eff 4/29
EWR-BRU & DUB eff 5/22


For the TLV flight, I assume it is the flight that is currently a 77E being replaced?

So it will be 7x 77W and 7x 78J
 
fun2fly
Posts: 1343
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:44 am

Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:13 pm

dmstorm22 wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
First international 787-10 routes for summer 2019

EWR-FRA & TLV eff 3.30
EWR-BCN & CDG eff 4/29
EWR-BRU & DUB eff 5/22


For the TLV flight, I assume it is the flight that is currently a 77E being replaced?

So it will be 7x 77W and 7x 78J


With SFO and IAD, that's a massive amount of seats into TLV for UA.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:37 pm

On TLV, the 787-10 will replace the 77W frequency.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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STT757
Posts: 13668
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:38 pm

LAXintl wrote:
First international 787-10 routes for summer 2019

EWR-FRA & TLV eff 3.30
EWR-BCN & CDG eff 4/29
EWR-BRU & DUB eff 5/22


Excellent choices, a couple are replacements of the domestic 77As and the rest are switching from the 77Es.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
dmstorm22
Posts: 375
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:49 pm

Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:12 pm

LAXintl wrote:
On TLV, the 787-10 will replace the 77W frequency.


Hm, interesting. I guess it's only a drop of ~50 seats.

Also helps to free up the 77W for other, longer routes too, I guess.
 
fun2fly
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Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:44 am

Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:45 pm

LAXintl wrote:
On TLV, the 787-10 will replace the 77W frequency.


I'd sure like to see the economics of that when they have some seat time. The 78J is going to be at TATL beast. Good application by UA...use the plane to it's limits to get the best economics.
 
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adamblang
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:59 pm

I wonder how the freed up 772s and 77W will get deployed. Some of the 772s probably make up mod sack. But presumably some upgauge a few 788 and 763 routes and then those 788s and 763s get shuffled to new markets.
146 319 320 321 332 333 343 717 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 763 764 772 773 789 AR1 AT4 CNA CR2 CR7 DC9 ER3 ERD ER4 E70 E75 E90
 
VC10er
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:12 pm

Last night I was on a UA 772 from EWR to BRU. I was in Polaris and not the new seats. But, the aircraft inside was almost like new. Even the person I was flying with was surprised when I told him that this plane will soon be gutted and refurbished. The old side by side seat was in near perfect condition.
So, couldn’t the seat I was in last night be reused on the 752’s?
I also probably slept better in that seat from take off to landing than in my own bed. Yes, climbing over my sleeping friend to use the Lav was very inconvenient- but otherwise, in a single aisle it is a perfectly fine seat. Would they fit 2x2 in a 737MAX?
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
VC10er
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Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:25 am

Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:18 pm

LAXintl wrote:
On TLV, the 787-10 will replace the 77W frequency.


I would love to see the 77W do EWR/HKG. It’s a beautiful aircraft and finally something help close the gap with Cathay and others.
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
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yochai
Posts: 202
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:19 pm

Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:25 pm

LAXintl wrote:
On TLV, the 787-10 will replace the 77W frequency.


Incorrect, the 78J will replace the 772 on the morning flight (UA84/5). Or summer 2019 UA at TLV is EWR daily 78J+77W SFO daily 77W and IAD 3x 772
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:07 pm

yochai wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
On TLV, the 787-10 will replace the 77W frequency.


Incorrect, the 78J will replace the 772 on the morning flight (UA84/5). Or summer 2019 UA at TLV is EWR daily 78J+77W SFO daily 77W and IAD 3x 772


What are you talking about? And where did you get ur info?
 
VC10er
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:26 pm

Another irrelevant comment from VC10er! I met one of those (always) handsome Israeli Secret Service/Gov Security guys recently, you know, black suits, one ear piece. I mentioned I went to TLV on United’s new 77W- he went nuts: “United is the BEST, everyone in Israel thinks United is such a fantastic airline, we all fly them over anyone else” - he was floored to find out that’s not so much the same here! So, is he alone or does UA enjoy a great reputation in Israel? They really do have many seats from many locations- so I assume they must.
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
springtx
Posts: 83
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:57 pm

Start UA Flight Depart Time Arrive Time
March 30 UA 960 EWR 7:50 p.m. FRA (Frankfurt) 9:20 a.m.
March 30 UA 84 EWR 4:55 p.m. TLV (Tel Aviv) 10:15 a.m.
April 29 UA 57 EWR 6:40 p.m. CDG (Paris) 7:45 a.m.
April 29 UA 120 EWR 7:30 p.m. BCN (Barcelona) 9:00 a.m.
May 22 UA 999 EWR 6:30 p.m. BRU (Brussels) 7:45 a.m.
May 22 UA 23 EWR 7:25 p.m. DUB (Dublin) 7:05 a.m.
 
panam330
Posts: 2079
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:58 am

Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:33 am

yochai wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
On TLV, the 787-10 will replace the 77W frequency.


Incorrect, the 78J will replace the 772 on the morning flight (UA84/5). Or summer 2019 UA at TLV is EWR daily 78J+77W SFO daily 77W and IAD 3x 772

I must've missed the upgauge on SFO-TLV. Quite a far cry from the original 788! What a winner TLV is for UA! It's a shame AA has its head up its ass when it comes to competing anywhere but LHR and GRU; MIA/ORD-TLV would be such excellent fits for AA's network, but we'll probably never see them.
 
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yochai
Posts: 202
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:19 pm

Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:28 pm

panam330 wrote:
yochai wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
On TLV, the 787-10 will replace the 77W frequency.


Incorrect, the 78J will replace the 772 on the morning flight (UA84/5). Or summer 2019 UA at TLV is EWR daily 78J+77W SFO daily 77W and IAD 3x 772

I must've missed the upgauge on SFO-TLV. Quite a far cry from the original 788! What a winner TLV is for UA! It's a shame AA has its head up its ass when it comes to competing anywhere but LHR and GRU; MIA/ORD-TLV would be such excellent fits for AA's network, but we'll probably never see them.


This summer it has already been upgauged to a 77W, now back to daily 789 for the winter season but will be back on the 77W for the summer. UA is very big in TLV, DL also adds a second daily flight from JFK for 2019 summer season, AA is left far far behind relying only on codeshares via El Al. NYC-TLV next summer is going to be busy...UA daily 78J+ 77W, DL 2 daily A333 and LY 4 daily 789+ daily 744.
 
jayunited
Posts: 1779
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:34 pm

LAXintl wrote:
On TLV, the 787-10 will replace the 77W frequency.


I think you might be mistaken UA84/85 is currently a 77E I think the 787-10 is replacing that aircraft, while the 77W will remain on the late evening departure.
 
redrooster3
Posts: 343
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:35 am

Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:31 pm

VC10er wrote:
Last night I was on a UA 772 from EWR to BRU. I was in Polaris and not the new seats. But, the aircraft inside was almost like new. Even the person I was flying with was surprised when I told him that this plane will soon be gutted and refurbished. The old side by side seat was in near perfect condition.
So, couldn’t the seat I was in last night be reused on the 752’s?
I also probably slept better in that seat from take off to landing than in my own bed. Yes, climbing over my sleeping friend to use the Lav was very inconvenient- but otherwise, in a single aisle it is a perfectly fine seat. Would they fit 2x2 in a 737MAX?


I had this discussion with co-workers about them gutting the older Diamond seats from the 787s and refurbishing them to be placed in the 737 MAX10 or older 757s. Especially since they have newer controls and TVs. But yes, the Diamond seat will comfortably fit 2+2 in a 737, just like the 757.
Marry one of us, and you'll fly for free!
 
jayunited
Posts: 1779
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:04 am

On tomorrow 11-25 (Sunday) UA is scheduled to operate 679 flights out of ORD, I've been searching trying to find out if this is a scheduling record or if we've ever scheduled and operated that many flights out of ORD in a 24 hour period. Does any one know if this could be a record for UA at ORD or have we in the past operated more than 679 flights in a single day?

The reason I said earlier scheduling record is because Chicagoland is supposed to be hit by a winter storm on Sunday however most forecasters are forecasting the bulk of the snow will fall well north of the city and ORD but just a an inch or two for the city. This could bode well for UA's schedule but if there is a wind shift and ORD is cought in the heavy band of snow there will be numerous cancellations. Some computer models are forecasting 10-12 inches to hit around the Rockford area northward which isn't that far from ORD.
 
AMERICAN757
Posts: 486
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2001 12:31 pm

Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sun Nov 25, 2018 1:02 am

jayunited wrote:
On tomorrow 11-25 (Sunday) UA is scheduled to operate 679 flights out of ORD, I've been searching trying to find out if this is a scheduling record or if we've ever scheduled and operated that many flights out of ORD in a 24 hour period. Does any one know if this could be a record for UA at ORD or have we in the past operated more than 679 flights in a single day?

The reason I said earlier scheduling record is because Chicagoland is supposed to be hit by a winter storm on Sunday however most forecasters are forecasting the bulk of the snow will fall well north of the city and ORD but just a an inch or two for the city. This could bode well for UA's schedule but if there is a wind shift and ORD is cought in the heavy band of snow there will be numerous cancellations. Some computer models are forecasting 10-12 inches to hit around the Rockford area northward which isn't that far from ORD.



Would you happen to know how many out of IAH tomorrow?
 
Cmac787
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sun Nov 25, 2018 2:29 am

IAH has 548 flights scheduled tomorrow
 
nomorerjs
Posts: 794
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:24 am

Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sun Nov 25, 2018 2:38 am

ORD slowly upgauging. Still too many RJs, but expansion of ORD and more maineline in the next few years will help.

There was a “Spring Break” thread posted. ORD will see increased Saturday service to EYW, SRQ, RSW, SJO, LIR, and more sunny destinations for a few weekends in March.
 
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AVENSAB727
Posts: 1313
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:02 am

Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sun Nov 25, 2018 2:49 am

Cmac787 wrote:
IAH has 548 flights scheduled tomorrow

nice, IAH climbing up the latter, soon it will hopefully reach the 600s
Always look on the bright side of Life!
 
Fargo
Posts: 131
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:00 am

Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:56 am

nomorerjs wrote:
ORD slowly upgauging. Still too many RJs, but expansion of ORD and more maineline in the next few years will help.


Not fast enough IMO. As UA’s largest hub, ORD should be at least 60% mainline, if not closer to 70%. This is where a 100 seat airplane would come in handy for UA, they could base it out of ORD and gain a significant CASM advantage over AA.
 
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United787
Posts: 2701
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 12:20 pm

Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:21 am

What is the obsession with Mainline? Yes, they are many routes that should not have RJs on them, but there are also many markets that wouldn’t have service with out them.
 
VC10er
Posts: 3684
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:25 am

Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:07 am

I am more curious now than ever before about UA domestic as new clients have me going all over the USA. SOMETIMES I feel like “gosh, that’s it for nonstops to X and then it’s all connecting?”
So, I am wondering if the 150 new 737MAX’s and the used but renovated Airbuses will be making a big difference in the frequency and number of domestic flights.
Basically, from EWR will I see many more (and better) options on United.com?
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
flyguy84
Posts: 692
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:26 pm

Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:09 am

jayunited wrote:
On tomorrow 11-25 (Sunday) UA is scheduled to operate 679 flights out of ORD, I've been searching trying to find out if this is a scheduling record or if we've ever scheduled and operated that many flights out of ORD in a 24 hour period. Does any one know if this could be a record for UA at ORD or have we in the past operated more than 679 flights in a single day?

The reason I said earlier scheduling record is because Chicagoland is supposed to be hit by a winter storm on Sunday however most forecasters are forecasting the bulk of the snow will fall well north of the city and ORD but just a an inch or two for the city. This could bode well for UA's schedule but if there is a wind shift and ORD is cought in the heavy band of snow there will be numerous cancellations. Some computer models are forecasting 10-12 inches to hit around the Rockford area northward which isn't that far from ORD.

Wrong again - ORD is going to be hit hard tomorrow starting early afternoon. It's going to be a hot mess. 6-8 inches expected at the airport, possibly more.
SFO
 
joeblow10
Posts: 130
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:58 pm

Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:43 am

Things are also a hot mess at DEN right now (im standing here watching it unfold), more so for WN but UA is certainly impacted as well.

Very light snow but 40+ mph winds and you’ve got blizzard like conditions out here. Looks like most things are delayed around 60 minutes right now, but some 8-9p flights are now delayed until 1a or later.

Not sure it’ll impact UAs ops tomorrow as the weather is supposed to be nice, but they run that crazy 12a departure bank tonight from DEN which if significantly delayed could lead to crew issues. Never seen concourses B and C be such madhouses at midnight...
 
Fargo
Posts: 131
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:00 am

Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sun Nov 25, 2018 2:25 pm

United787 wrote:
What is the obsession with Mainline? Yes, they are many routes that should not have RJs on them, but there are also many markets that wouldn’t have service with out them.


Mainline tends to be more reliable than regional jets IMO.

I just can’t really comprehend how ORD can have such a low % of mainline compared to other major hubs. Introducing a 100 seat aircraft would allow them to not only upgauge more routes to mainline, but introduce more larger RJ’s (E75’s). This would allow them to gain a bigger advantage over AA at ORD, perhaps beginning the process of consolidating O&D support and forcing AA out of ORD.
 
jayunited
Posts: 1779
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Nov 30, 2018 6:00 pm

United has just announced Premium Plus seats will go on sale beginning December 3rd and service will officially begin March 30th 2019. Customers booked in this cabin will enjoy larger seats with increased recline, leg and foot rest. Customers will also enjoy upgraded dinning experience, free wine, beer and spirits, larger in seats screens (up to 13 inches) and will have Premiere access with 2 free checked bags and discounted access to United Clubs.

The information below is from Flying Together and as you can see with this announcement EWR-HKG will finally be upguaged to a 77W as well. The one thing that really jumps out at me is there isn't a single ORD flight on the list below and right now there are a lot of Premium plus configured 77E's rotating through ORD on flights to Asia, Germany, and GRU. Many of those aircraft will be redeployed to SFO, IAD and EWR in March 2019. Once again those of us who travel internationally from ORD are again being asked to wait, there are no 787s, no 77Ws and ORD will not be included with the launch of Premium plus service.

Service rollout: What to expect

United® Premium Plus should be available for booking beginning December 3. The first routes that will include the full United® Premium Plus service include:

777-300ER schedule
Date UA Flight Depart Departure Time Arrive Arrival Time
March 30 UA 179 EWR 3:15 p.m. HKG (Hong Kong) 7:10 p.m.
March 30 UA 48 EWR 8:10 p.m. BOM (Mumbai) 8:50 p.m.
March 30 UA 90 EWR 10:50 p.m. TLV (Tel Aviv) 4:20 p.m.
March 30 UA 79 EWR 11:05 p.m. NRT (Tokyo) 1:55 p.m.
March 30 UA 58 SFO 1:50 p.m. FRA (Frankfurt) 9:55 a.m.
March 30 UA 869 SFO 1:00 p.m. HKG (Hong Kong) 6:45 p.m.
March 30 UA 871 SFO 2:00 p.m. TPE (Taipei) 6:45 p.m.
March 30 UA 954 SFO 7:45 p.m. TLV (Tel Aviv) 7:55 p.m.
March 30 UA 837 SFO 11:30 a.m. NRT (Tokyo) 2:35 p.m.
April 29 UA 901 SFO 12:25 p.m. LHR (London) 6:55 a.m.



777-200ER schedule
Date UA Flight Depart Departure Time Arrive Arrival Time
March 30 UA 999 EWR 6:30 p.m. BRU (Brussels) 7:45 a.m.
March 30 UA 57 EWR 6:30 p.m. CDG (Paris) 7:45 a.m.
March 30 UA 917 SFO 11:10 p.m. AKL (Auckland) 8:20 a.m.
March 30 UA 888 SFO 10:55 a.m. PEK (Beijing) 2:20 p.m.
March 30 UA 926 SFO 7:15 p.m. FRA (Frankfurt) 3:15 p.m.
April 29 UA 990 SFO 2:50 p.m. CDG (Paris) 10:35 a.m.
March 30 UA 950 IAD 5:40 p.m. BRU (Brussels) 7:15 a.m.
April 29 UA 915 IAD 5:20 p.m. CDG (Paris) 6:55 a.m.
May 22 UA 72 IAD 10:30 p.m. TLV (Tel Aviv) 4:30 p.m.



787-10 schedule
Date UA Flight Depart Departure Time Arrive Arrival Time
March 30 UA 960 EWR 7:40 p.m. FRA (Frankfurt) 9:10 a.m.
March 30 UA 84 EWR 4:55 p.m. TLV (Tel Aviv) 10:15 a.m.
April 29 UA 57 EWR 6:40 p.m. CDG (Paris) 7:45 a.m.
April 29 UA 120 EWR 7:30 p.m. BCN (Barcelona) 9:00 a.m.
May 22 UA 999 EWR 6:30 p.m. BRU (Brussels) 7:45 a.m.
May 22 UA 23 EWR 7:25 p.m. DUB (Dublin) 7:05 a.m.

We’ll be retrofitting and/or delivering United® Premium Plus seats on nearly all our international widebody aircraft and expect the entire retrofit program to take three years.
 
Fargo
Posts: 131
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:00 am

Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:11 pm

jayunited wrote:
United has just announced Premium Plus seats will go on sale beginning December 3rd and service will officially begin March 30th 2019. Customers booked in this cabin will enjoy larger seats with increased recline, leg and foot rest. Customers will also enjoy upgraded dinning experience, free wine, beer and spirits, larger in seats screens (up to 13 inches) and will have Premiere access with 2 free checked bags and discounted access to United Clubs.

The information below is from Flying Together and as you can see with this announcement EWR-HKG will finally be upguaged to a 77W as well. The one thing that really jumps out at me is there isn't a single ORD flight on the list below and right now there are a lot of Premium plus configured 77E's rotating through ORD on flights to Asia, Germany, and GRU. Many of those aircraft will be redeployed to SFO, IAD and EWR in March 2019. Once again those of us who travel internationally from ORD are again being asked to wait, there are no 787s, no 77Ws and ORD will not be included with the launch of Premium plus service.

Service rollout: What to expect

United® Premium Plus should be available for booking beginning December 3. The first routes that will include the full United® Premium Plus service include:

777-300ER schedule
Date UA Flight Depart Departure Time Arrive Arrival Time
March 30 UA 179 EWR 3:15 p.m. HKG (Hong Kong) 7:10 p.m.
March 30 UA 48 EWR 8:10 p.m. BOM (Mumbai) 8:50 p.m.
March 30 UA 90 EWR 10:50 p.m. TLV (Tel Aviv) 4:20 p.m.
March 30 UA 79 EWR 11:05 p.m. NRT (Tokyo) 1:55 p.m.
March 30 UA 58 SFO 1:50 p.m. FRA (Frankfurt) 9:55 a.m.
March 30 UA 869 SFO 1:00 p.m. HKG (Hong Kong) 6:45 p.m.
March 30 UA 871 SFO 2:00 p.m. TPE (Taipei) 6:45 p.m.
March 30 UA 954 SFO 7:45 p.m. TLV (Tel Aviv) 7:55 p.m.
March 30 UA 837 SFO 11:30 a.m. NRT (Tokyo) 2:35 p.m.
April 29 UA 901 SFO 12:25 p.m. LHR (London) 6:55 a.m.



777-200ER schedule
Date UA Flight Depart Departure Time Arrive Arrival Time
March 30 UA 999 EWR 6:30 p.m. BRU (Brussels) 7:45 a.m.
March 30 UA 57 EWR 6:30 p.m. CDG (Paris) 7:45 a.m.
March 30 UA 917 SFO 11:10 p.m. AKL (Auckland) 8:20 a.m.
March 30 UA 888 SFO 10:55 a.m. PEK (Beijing) 2:20 p.m.
March 30 UA 926 SFO 7:15 p.m. FRA (Frankfurt) 3:15 p.m.
April 29 UA 990 SFO 2:50 p.m. CDG (Paris) 10:35 a.m.
March 30 UA 950 IAD 5:40 p.m. BRU (Brussels) 7:15 a.m.
April 29 UA 915 IAD 5:20 p.m. CDG (Paris) 6:55 a.m.
May 22 UA 72 IAD 10:30 p.m. TLV (Tel Aviv) 4:30 p.m.



787-10 schedule
Date UA Flight Depart Departure Time Arrive Arrival Time
March 30 UA 960 EWR 7:40 p.m. FRA (Frankfurt) 9:10 a.m.
March 30 UA 84 EWR 4:55 p.m. TLV (Tel Aviv) 10:15 a.m.
April 29 UA 57 EWR 6:40 p.m. CDG (Paris) 7:45 a.m.
April 29 UA 120 EWR 7:30 p.m. BCN (Barcelona) 9:00 a.m.
May 22 UA 999 EWR 6:30 p.m. BRU (Brussels) 7:45 a.m.
May 22 UA 23 EWR 7:25 p.m. DUB (Dublin) 7:05 a.m.

We’ll be retrofitting and/or delivering United® Premium Plus seats on nearly all our international widebody aircraft and expect the entire retrofit program to take three years.


Not to complain, but things like this make me wonder what is going on with UA and ORD. ORD is UA’s largest hub, but yet gets second hand international widebodies (no new 787’s or 77W’s as you have alluded to), the lowest % of mainline in the entire system and no new international routes (on UA metal) in a while.

ORD should be the rollout station for these kinds of services (Premium Plus), yet they aren’t. ORD should have the among the highest mainline % in the UA network, yet they don’t. UA, not AA, should be the ones launching routes like ORD-ATH, yet they aren’t.

Is something going on here?
 
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jetblastdubai
Posts: 1790
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:23 am

Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:21 pm

Fargo wrote:

Not to complain, but things like this make me wonder what is going on with UA and ORD. ORD is UA’s largest hub,


Largest domestic hub.

SFO and EWR are UA premier Int'l gateways where competition is stiff. AA at ORD, other than LHR, offers very little competition to Europe and even less to Asia. I'd say UA is putting their initial, limited resources where it will count the most. ORD will see PE and the 77W/78J soon enough but until they get gates that are able to accommodate the same number of 772-sized aircraft into gates with 77W and 787s, UA can't afford to reduce flights for the sake of getting larger planes in T1. IMO
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B737900ER
Posts: 940
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:26 am

Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:30 pm

Fargo wrote:
Is something going on here?

Money

NYC, San Francisco, and Northern Virginia are wealthier places than Chicago. UA is more likely to sell its premium products in places where there more disposable income.

In the US aviation market it’s always about money.
 
ual763
Posts: 694
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 11:46 am

Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:30 pm

Fargo wrote:
jayunited wrote:
United has just announced Premium Plus seats will go on sale beginning December 3rd and service will officially begin March 30th 2019. Customers booked in this cabin will enjoy larger seats with increased recline, leg and foot rest. Customers will also enjoy upgraded dinning experience, free wine, beer and spirits, larger in seats screens (up to 13 inches) and will have Premiere access with 2 free checked bags and discounted access to United Clubs.

The information below is from Flying Together and as you can see with this announcement EWR-HKG will finally be upguaged to a 77W as well. The one thing that really jumps out at me is there isn't a single ORD flight on the list below and right now there are a lot of Premium plus configured 77E's rotating through ORD on flights to Asia, Germany, and GRU. Many of those aircraft will be redeployed to SFO, IAD and EWR in March 2019. Once again those of us who travel internationally from ORD are again being asked to wait, there are no 787s, no 77Ws and ORD will not be included with the launch of Premium plus service.

Service rollout: What to expect

United® Premium Plus should be available for booking beginning December 3. The first routes that will include the full United® Premium Plus service include:

777-300ER schedule
Date UA Flight Depart Departure Time Arrive Arrival Time
March 30 UA 179 EWR 3:15 p.m. HKG (Hong Kong) 7:10 p.m.
March 30 UA 48 EWR 8:10 p.m. BOM (Mumbai) 8:50 p.m.
March 30 UA 90 EWR 10:50 p.m. TLV (Tel Aviv) 4:20 p.m.
March 30 UA 79 EWR 11:05 p.m. NRT (Tokyo) 1:55 p.m.
March 30 UA 58 SFO 1:50 p.m. FRA (Frankfurt) 9:55 a.m.
March 30 UA 869 SFO 1:00 p.m. HKG (Hong Kong) 6:45 p.m.
March 30 UA 871 SFO 2:00 p.m. TPE (Taipei) 6:45 p.m.
March 30 UA 954 SFO 7:45 p.m. TLV (Tel Aviv) 7:55 p.m.
March 30 UA 837 SFO 11:30 a.m. NRT (Tokyo) 2:35 p.m.
April 29 UA 901 SFO 12:25 p.m. LHR (London) 6:55 a.m.



777-200ER schedule
Date UA Flight Depart Departure Time Arrive Arrival Time
March 30 UA 999 EWR 6:30 p.m. BRU (Brussels) 7:45 a.m.
March 30 UA 57 EWR 6:30 p.m. CDG (Paris) 7:45 a.m.
March 30 UA 917 SFO 11:10 p.m. AKL (Auckland) 8:20 a.m.
March 30 UA 888 SFO 10:55 a.m. PEK (Beijing) 2:20 p.m.
March 30 UA 926 SFO 7:15 p.m. FRA (Frankfurt) 3:15 p.m.
April 29 UA 990 SFO 2:50 p.m. CDG (Paris) 10:35 a.m.
March 30 UA 950 IAD 5:40 p.m. BRU (Brussels) 7:15 a.m.
April 29 UA 915 IAD 5:20 p.m. CDG (Paris) 6:55 a.m.
May 22 UA 72 IAD 10:30 p.m. TLV (Tel Aviv) 4:30 p.m.



787-10 schedule
Date UA Flight Depart Departure Time Arrive Arrival Time
March 30 UA 960 EWR 7:40 p.m. FRA (Frankfurt) 9:10 a.m.
March 30 UA 84 EWR 4:55 p.m. TLV (Tel Aviv) 10:15 a.m.
April 29 UA 57 EWR 6:40 p.m. CDG (Paris) 7:45 a.m.
April 29 UA 120 EWR 7:30 p.m. BCN (Barcelona) 9:00 a.m.
May 22 UA 999 EWR 6:30 p.m. BRU (Brussels) 7:45 a.m.
May 22 UA 23 EWR 7:25 p.m. DUB (Dublin) 7:05 a.m.

We’ll be retrofitting and/or delivering United® Premium Plus seats on nearly all our international widebody aircraft and expect the entire retrofit program to take three years.


Not to complain, but things like this make me wonder what is going on with UA and ORD. ORD is UA’s largest hub, but yet gets second hand international widebodies (no new 787’s or 77W’s as you have alluded to), the lowest % of mainline in the entire system and no new international routes (on UA metal) in a while.

ORD should be the rollout station for these kinds of services (Premium Plus), yet they aren’t. ORD should have the among the highest mainline % in the UA network, yet they don’t. UA, not AA, should be the ones launching routes like ORD-ATH, yet they aren’t.

Is something going on here?


A lot of it has to do with gate space. As in physical space. The 777-300ER, for example is a mess at ORD. The wings are just too damn long to fit into the current gates without impacting the neighboring gates. The 787 has long wings as well. I imagine we will start to see the newest and biggest planes come back to ORD when the new Concourses are completed.
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
codc10
Posts: 2284
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:44 pm

Fargo wrote:
Not to complain, but things like this make me wonder what is going on with UA and ORD. ORD is UA’s largest hub, but yet gets second hand international widebodies (no new 787’s or 77W’s as you have alluded to), the lowest % of mainline in the entire system and no new international routes (on UA metal) in a while.

ORD should be the rollout station for these kinds of services (Premium Plus), yet they aren’t. ORD should have the among the highest mainline % in the UA network, yet they don’t. UA, not AA, should be the ones launching routes like ORD-ATH, yet they aren’t.

Is something going on here?


I think your example/comparison of AA is illustrative... yes, AA is adding some seasonal leisure flying out of ORD, but completely exited ORD-Asia flying citing lack of profitability. While I believe UA generates better returns than American to Asia at ORD and in general, UA has more competitive and likely better-performing longhaul routes out of EWR/SFO/IAD which call for earlier introduction of its latest cabin products.

Eventually, ORD will have more Polaris and PE equipment.
 
FSDan
Posts: 1950
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:53 pm

jayunited wrote:
as you can see with this announcement EWR-HKG will finally be upguaged to a 77W as well.


Finally! This route has seemed to beg the 77W for quite some time, given the distance. Must have been one of the longest (if not the longest) 77E routes in the world!
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
User avatar
airzim
Posts: 1364
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2001 7:40 am

Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:57 pm

ual763 wrote:
Fargo wrote:
jayunited wrote:
United has just announced Premium Plus seats will go on sale beginning December 3rd and service will officially begin March 30th 2019. Customers booked in this cabin will enjoy larger seats with increased recline, leg and foot rest. Customers will also enjoy upgraded dinning experience, free wine, beer and spirits, larger in seats screens (up to 13 inches) and will have Premiere access with 2 free checked bags and discounted access to United Clubs.

The information below is from Flying Together and as you can see with this announcement EWR-HKG will finally be upguaged to a 77W as well. The one thing that really jumps out at me is there isn't a single ORD flight on the list below and right now there are a lot of Premium plus configured 77E's rotating through ORD on flights to Asia, Germany, and GRU. Many of those aircraft will be redeployed to SFO, IAD and EWR in March 2019. Once again those of us who travel internationally from ORD are again being asked to wait, there are no 787s, no 77Ws and ORD will not be included with the launch of Premium plus service.

Service rollout: What to expect

United® Premium Plus should be available for booking beginning December 3. The first routes that will include the full United® Premium Plus service include:

777-300ER schedule
Date UA Flight Depart Departure Time Arrive Arrival Time
March 30 UA 179 EWR 3:15 p.m. HKG (Hong Kong) 7:10 p.m.
March 30 UA 48 EWR 8:10 p.m. BOM (Mumbai) 8:50 p.m.
March 30 UA 90 EWR 10:50 p.m. TLV (Tel Aviv) 4:20 p.m.
March 30 UA 79 EWR 11:05 p.m. NRT (Tokyo) 1:55 p.m.
March 30 UA 58 SFO 1:50 p.m. FRA (Frankfurt) 9:55 a.m.
March 30 UA 869 SFO 1:00 p.m. HKG (Hong Kong) 6:45 p.m.
March 30 UA 871 SFO 2:00 p.m. TPE (Taipei) 6:45 p.m.
March 30 UA 954 SFO 7:45 p.m. TLV (Tel Aviv) 7:55 p.m.
March 30 UA 837 SFO 11:30 a.m. NRT (Tokyo) 2:35 p.m.
April 29 UA 901 SFO 12:25 p.m. LHR (London) 6:55 a.m.



777-200ER schedule
Date UA Flight Depart Departure Time Arrive Arrival Time
March 30 UA 999 EWR 6:30 p.m. BRU (Brussels) 7:45 a.m.
March 30 UA 57 EWR 6:30 p.m. CDG (Paris) 7:45 a.m.
March 30 UA 917 SFO 11:10 p.m. AKL (Auckland) 8:20 a.m.
March 30 UA 888 SFO 10:55 a.m. PEK (Beijing) 2:20 p.m.
March 30 UA 926 SFO 7:15 p.m. FRA (Frankfurt) 3:15 p.m.
April 29 UA 990 SFO 2:50 p.m. CDG (Paris) 10:35 a.m.
March 30 UA 950 IAD 5:40 p.m. BRU (Brussels) 7:15 a.m.
April 29 UA 915 IAD 5:20 p.m. CDG (Paris) 6:55 a.m.
May 22 UA 72 IAD 10:30 p.m. TLV (Tel Aviv) 4:30 p.m.



787-10 schedule
Date UA Flight Depart Departure Time Arrive Arrival Time
March 30 UA 960 EWR 7:40 p.m. FRA (Frankfurt) 9:10 a.m.
March 30 UA 84 EWR 4:55 p.m. TLV (Tel Aviv) 10:15 a.m.
April 29 UA 57 EWR 6:40 p.m. CDG (Paris) 7:45 a.m.
April 29 UA 120 EWR 7:30 p.m. BCN (Barcelona) 9:00 a.m.
May 22 UA 999 EWR 6:30 p.m. BRU (Brussels) 7:45 a.m.
May 22 UA 23 EWR 7:25 p.m. DUB (Dublin) 7:05 a.m.

We’ll be retrofitting and/or delivering United® Premium Plus seats on nearly all our international widebody aircraft and expect the entire retrofit program to take three years.


Not to complain, but things like this make me wonder what is going on with UA and ORD. ORD is UA’s largest hub, but yet gets second hand international widebodies (no new 787’s or 77W’s as you have alluded to), the lowest % of mainline in the entire system and no new international routes (on UA metal) in a while.

ORD should be the rollout station for these kinds of services (Premium Plus), yet they aren’t. ORD should have the among the highest mainline % in the UA network, yet they don’t. UA, not AA, should be the ones launching routes like ORD-ATH, yet they aren’t.

Is something going on here?


A lot of it has to do with gate space. As in physical space. The 777-300ER, for example is a mess at ORD. The wings are just too damn long to fit into the current gates without impacting the neighboring gates. The 787 has long wings as well. I imagine we will start to see the newest and biggest planes come back to ORD when the new Concourses are completed.


Haven't seen mentioned, but today UA can easily accommodate 767 services to Europe from the interior gates at C. Anything larger needs to be either at the end of B16 or on the outside of C. So swapping a 767 for 787 isn't quite so simple. But soon enough the 767 fleet will have the most modern interior product, plus many of the 777s are also in refurb (Polaris, Prem Plus). So I don't think it's correct to say ORD is getting the shaft from a product perspective.
 
jayunited
Posts: 1779
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:50 pm

ual763 wrote:

A lot of it has to do with gate space. As in physical space. The 777-300ER, for example is a mess at ORD. The wings are just too damn long to fit into the current gates without impacting the neighboring gates. The 787 has long wings as well. I imagine we will start to see the newest and biggest planes come back to ORD when the new Concourses are completed.


Actually it doesn't have to to with gate space the 77W can fit at gates C10, ((C16, C20), these two gate UA would need to make a slight adjustment to the lead in line) C29, B17 and B16. I left out C18 because it is not possible to move the lead in line because of the way the terminal building jets out in between C18 and C16. However 77W's have been and continue to utilize C10, C29 B17 and B16.

As far as the 787s any and all gates that currently accommodate 777 can accommodate the any and all 787s. As a matter of fact the lead in and stop lines for these aircraft have been painted on the ground for years. The wingspan of the 787-8,9,10 is not an issue because its only 197 feet which can fit any of our 777 capable gates. The odd C gates are not available and I didn't say I want UA to replace the 763s with 787s I know that can't happen for now because of limited space from C9-C21.

I understand UA is going to place these aircraft where they will make the most money and I know EWR and SFO are the 2 hubs with the highest percentage of G.S., 1K and Platinum passengers. However even with that knowledge I was hoping ORD would finally be shown some love.
 
Fargo
Posts: 131
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:00 am

Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:42 pm

jayunited wrote:
ual763 wrote:

A lot of it has to do with gate space. As in physical space. The 777-300ER, for example is a mess at ORD. The wings are just too damn long to fit into the current gates without impacting the neighboring gates. The 787 has long wings as well. I imagine we will start to see the newest and biggest planes come back to ORD when the new Concourses are completed.


Actually it doesn't have to to with gate space the 77W can fit at gates C10, ((C16, C20), these two gate UA would need to make a slight adjustment to the lead in line) C29, B17 and B16. I left out C18 because it is not possible to move the lead in line because of the way the terminal building jets out in between C18 and C16. However 77W's have been and continue to utilize C10, C29 B17 and B16.

As far as the 787s any and all gates that currently accommodate 777 can accommodate the any and all 787s. As a matter of fact the lead in and stop lines for these aircraft have been painted on the ground for years. The wingspan of the 787-8,9,10 is not an issue because its only 197 feet which can fit any of our 777 capable gates. The odd C gates are not available and I didn't say I want UA to replace the 763s with 787s I know that can't happen for now because of limited space from C9-C21.

I understand UA is going to place these aircraft where they will make the most money and I know EWR and SFO are the 2 hubs with the highest percentage of G.S., 1K and Platinum passengers. However even with that knowledge I was hoping ORD would finally be shown some love.


If gates aren't the reason, I wonder what is. Chicago isn't NYC, DC or San Francisco, but it is no slouch either when it comes to international travel and it does have some pockets of wealthy areas. I wonder if it is more to do with the lack of investment in international terminals?

This is all the more reason ORD needs to get going on the Global Terminal as fast as humanly possible.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5393
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:54 pm

jetblastdubai wrote:
Fargo wrote:

Not to complain, but things like this make me wonder what is going on with UA and ORD. ORD is UA’s largest hub,


Largest domestic hub.

SFO and EWR are UA premier Int'l gateways where competition is stiff. AA at ORD, other than LHR, offers very little competition to Europe and even less to Asia. I'd say UA is putting their initial, limited resources where it will count the most. ORD will see PE and the 77W/78J soon enough but until they get gates that are able to accommodate the same number of 772-sized aircraft into gates with 77W and 787s, UA can't afford to reduce flights for the sake of getting larger planes in T1. IMO


This is too simplistic.

ORD is UA's jack of all trades hub. It has a massive domestic network as well as service to many cities in Europe and Asia, and service to Mexico and Brazil.
SFO is UA's Asia's gateway with significant domestic and European service.
EWR is UA's Europe gateway with significant domestic and Asian service.
IAH is UA's Latin America gateway with significant domestic service, a few Europe routes and an NRT flight.
DEN is UA's Rocky Mountain gateway and 2nd largest domestic hub, with an NRT, seasonal LHR, and FRA (coming soon) flight.
LAX and IAD are focus cities that cater more to O&D than connections though that seems to be shifting at IAD.

If you are UA, where would you put those brand new aircraft at first? SFO and EWR have the largest numbers of long haul flights and have the best mix of O&D and connections of the hub. It makes perfect sense.

ORD is the most well rounded UA hub and as such has a slightly higher emphasis on domestic connections. It will get them, but I can see SFO and EWR being a higher priority because it has a higher ratio of O&D to connections and O&D traffic is typically higher yield.

IAH is just as international as EWR or SFO for the UA network, but the majority of its international network is short haul and medium haul. This is no urgent need for brand new long haul aircraft based on that. The long haul flights to/from IAH are typically operated on pre-merger CO 777's which are not as archaic as the pre-merger UA ones. The 767-300 also does the job pretty well for the South America network. Putting something like 787-1000 is way too many seats for routes like IAH-SCL/GRU/GIG/LIM. IAH is ok for now.

DEN is self explanatory.

LAX and IAD have some high yielding international flights but I would think it would be harder to base those aircraft there because they dont have the number of premium long hauls that EWR and SFO have.

Their decision makes sense to me.
Next flight: IAH-NRT-IAH on NH in J
 
Qantas744er
Posts: 1201
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 4:36 am

Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:49 pm

FSDan wrote:
jayunited wrote:
as you can see with this announcement EWR-HKG will finally be upguaged to a 77W as well.


Finally! This route has seemed to beg the 77W for quite some time, given the distance. Must have been one of the longest (if not the longest) 77E routes in the world!


I welcome the news. In any case the B77W will take a ~10,000lbs RTOW hit with temps >20 Deg.C (even with APU-PACKS and TO-B on hot summer >32 Deg. C).

The 11,000' on 4L/22R are a tad short for the B77W. In any case it will result in a significant increase in available revenue seats.
You live and you die, by the FMA
 
User avatar
twindocstravel
Posts: 115
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:46 am

Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:06 am

jayunited wrote:
ual763 wrote:

I understand UA is going to place these aircraft where they will make the most money and I know EWR and SFO are the 2 hubs with the highest percentage of G.S., 1K and Platinum passengers. However even with that knowledge I was hoping ORD would finally be shown some love.


I feel your pain, as an ORD based UA flyer I too was hoping ORD would finally get even a little bit of UA (international) love. I actually already booked a few long-haul J-class flights on UA this summer knowing a Polaris aircraft wasn't guaranteed but figuring with the refurb schedule the odds would definitely be in my favor. Once I read these threads I cancelled the UA J-flights and just rebooked with EVA and Asiana. Likely won't book any UA long-haul J-class on ORD nonstops until the entire fleet is pretty close to being refurbished. :cry: .
 
gwrudolph
Posts: 335
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:46 pm

Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:59 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
jetblastdubai wrote:
Fargo wrote:

Not to complain, but things like this make me wonder what is going on with UA and ORD. ORD is UA’s largest hub,


Largest domestic hub.

SFO and EWR are UA premier Int'l gateways where competition is stiff. AA at ORD, other than LHR, offers very little competition to Europe and even less to Asia. I'd say UA is putting their initial, limited resources where it will count the most. ORD will see PE and the 77W/78J soon enough but until they get gates that are able to accommodate the same number of 772-sized aircraft into gates with 77W and 787s, UA can't afford to reduce flights for the sake of getting larger planes in T1. IMO


This is too simplistic.

ORD is UA's jack of all trades hub. It has a massive domestic network as well as service to many cities in Europe and Asia, and service to Mexico and Brazil.
SFO is UA's Asia's gateway with significant domestic and European service.
EWR is UA's Europe gateway with significant domestic and Asian service.
IAH is UA's Latin America gateway with significant domestic service, a few Europe routes and an NRT flight.
DEN is UA's Rocky Mountain gateway and 2nd largest domestic hub, with an NRT, seasonal LHR, and FRA (coming soon) flight.
LAX and IAD are focus cities that cater more to O&D than connections though that seems to be shifting at IAD.

If you are UA, where would you put those brand new aircraft at first? SFO and EWR have the largest numbers of long haul flights and have the best mix of O&D and connections of the hub. It makes perfect sense.

ORD is the most well rounded UA hub and as such has a slightly higher emphasis on domestic connections. It will get them, but I can see SFO and EWR being a higher priority because it has a higher ratio of O&D to connections and O&D traffic is typically higher yield.

IAH is just as international as EWR or SFO for the UA network, but the majority of its international network is short haul and medium haul. This is no urgent need for brand new long haul aircraft based on that. The long haul flights to/from IAH are typically operated on pre-merger CO 777's which are not as archaic as the pre-merger UA ones. The 767-300 also does the job pretty well for the South America network. Putting something like 787-1000 is way too many seats for routes like IAH-SCL/GRU/GIG/LIM. IAH is ok for now.

DEN is self explanatory.

LAX and IAD have some high yielding international flights but I would think it would be harder to base those aircraft there because they dont have the number of premium long hauls that EWR and SFO have.

Their decision makes sense to me.


Honestly, I think their strategy is more about getting the right-sized and right efficiency aircraft positioned for the missions a particular hub is built around. Most of their long dense routes (perfect for the 77W) are from EWR and SFO while many of their long thinner routes (perfect for the 788/9) are from SFO, LAX, and IAD. They are also wisely concentrating some of these smaller fleets in certain hubs to make sure they have maximum operational flexibility and crew resourcing efficiency. The 763 and 77E/As work perfectly for most of ORD's missions, so they use the 77Ws and 788/9s where they make the most impact.

I suspect once the 788/9/10s fleet is 60 frames, you might start to see more of them at ORD and/or IAH, but I really don't think they need the 77W at ORD, IAH, or IAD as much as they need them at EWR and SFO. Since the fleet isn't going to ever grow beyond 18, I doubt you'll ever see them in any big way at ORD, IAH, or IAD.
 
Fargo
Posts: 131
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:00 am

Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:26 pm

gwrudolph wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
jetblastdubai wrote:

Largest domestic hub.

SFO and EWR are UA premier Int'l gateways where competition is stiff. AA at ORD, other than LHR, offers very little competition to Europe and even less to Asia. I'd say UA is putting their initial, limited resources where it will count the most. ORD will see PE and the 77W/78J soon enough but until they get gates that are able to accommodate the same number of 772-sized aircraft into gates with 77W and 787s, UA can't afford to reduce flights for the sake of getting larger planes in T1. IMO


This is too simplistic.

ORD is UA's jack of all trades hub. It has a massive domestic network as well as service to many cities in Europe and Asia, and service to Mexico and Brazil.
SFO is UA's Asia's gateway with significant domestic and European service.
EWR is UA's Europe gateway with significant domestic and Asian service.
IAH is UA's Latin America gateway with significant domestic service, a few Europe routes and an NRT flight.
DEN is UA's Rocky Mountain gateway and 2nd largest domestic hub, with an NRT, seasonal LHR, and FRA (coming soon) flight.
LAX and IAD are focus cities that cater more to O&D than connections though that seems to be shifting at IAD.

If you are UA, where would you put those brand new aircraft at first? SFO and EWR have the largest numbers of long haul flights and have the best mix of O&D and connections of the hub. It makes perfect sense.

ORD is the most well rounded UA hub and as such has a slightly higher emphasis on domestic connections. It will get them, but I can see SFO and EWR being a higher priority because it has a higher ratio of O&D to connections and O&D traffic is typically higher yield.

IAH is just as international as EWR or SFO for the UA network, but the majority of its international network is short haul and medium haul. This is no urgent need for brand new long haul aircraft based on that. The long haul flights to/from IAH are typically operated on pre-merger CO 777's which are not as archaic as the pre-merger UA ones. The 767-300 also does the job pretty well for the South America network. Putting something like 787-1000 is way too many seats for routes like IAH-SCL/GRU/GIG/LIM. IAH is ok for now.

DEN is self explanatory.

LAX and IAD have some high yielding international flights but I would think it would be harder to base those aircraft there because they dont have the number of premium long hauls that EWR and SFO have.

Their decision makes sense to me.


Honestly, I think their strategy is more about getting the right-sized and right efficiency aircraft positioned for the missions a particular hub is built around. Most of their long dense routes (perfect for the 77W) are from EWR and SFO while many of their long thinner routes (perfect for the 788/9) are from SFO, LAX, and IAD. They are also wisely concentrating some of these smaller fleets in certain hubs to make sure they have maximum operational flexibility and crew resourcing efficiency. The 763 and 77E/As work perfectly for most of ORD's missions, so they use the 77Ws and 788/9s where they make the most impact.

I suspect once the 788/9/10s fleet is 60 frames, you might start to see more of them at ORD and/or IAH, but I really don't think they need the 77W at ORD, IAH, or IAD as much as they need them at EWR and SFO. Since the fleet isn't going to ever grow beyond 18, I doubt you'll ever see them in any big way at ORD, IAH, or IAD.


It’s not so much the 77W’s, I’m more surprised we don’t see any UA 787’s at ORD at all. Granted, I suspect we’ll see some in due time. If UA were to launch ORD-TLV (which I have to imagine is on the horizon, given UA’s recent expansion at TLV and Chicago now being the largest unserved market in the US from Israel), I could see it being 3-4x weekly on a 789 to start.

Maybe if UA orders more 788’s to replace the 767’s, they’ll end up in Chicago as well.
 
redrooster3
Posts: 343
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:35 am

Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:00 pm

I was hoping for United starting up IST. Is TK codeshare too good to compete a little and start flying to IST?
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