Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
32andBelow wrote:The airlines in the USA cover all the different facets of aviation. We don't have like flag carriers and vacation carriers. If you want to go to Hawaii or TLV or Omaha Nebraska you just take Delta.
jetfuel wrote:Americans largely do not leave the USA for vacation
jetfuel wrote:Americans largely do not leave the USA for vacation
Samrnpage wrote:Being from the UK, do the US3 and main US airlines do package holidays like the european leisure airlines? For example TUI you can book flights, hotel, food and travel all under one price ?
guyanam wrote:Samrnpage wrote:Being from the UK, do the US3 and main US airlines do package holidays like the european leisure airlines? For example TUI you can book flights, hotel, food and travel all under one price ?
Americans don't necessarily want to do all of that in one package, so tour operators are less popular.
aviatorcraig wrote:I don't know the American market very well but surely Allegiant would be called a "vacation airline" no?
32andBelow wrote:If you want to go to Hawaii or TLV or Omaha Nebraska you just take Delta.
Samrnpage wrote:Being from the UK, do the US3 and main US airlines do package holidays like the european leisure airlines? For example TUI you can book flights, hotel, food and travel all under one price ?
Samrnpage wrote:Being from the UK, do the US3 and main US airlines do package holidays like the european leisure airlines? For example TUI you can book flights, hotel, food and travel all under one price ?
winginit wrote:A good quantity of the American travelling public accrue frequent flier miles and points so that they can redeem them for family vacations. That being the case, you're likely to use those points on the same carriers that you fly for business. All of the major US carrier's routes to Hawaii are made up of far more redemption traffic than most other routes.
Arion640 wrote:Holiday airlines seem to be a very European/Canadian thing due to the cold climates. Americans like to drive everywhere and may just drive upstate for a holiday etc. Or if you live in New York you may fly to LA etc, it just doesn't seem to be the same culture.
Samrnpage wrote:guyanam wrote:Samrnpage wrote:Being from the UK, do the US3 and main US airlines do package holidays like the european leisure airlines? For example TUI you can book flights, hotel, food and travel all under one price ?
Americans don't necessarily want to do all of that in one package, so tour operators are less popular.
Simple question, why not? because its very cheap. 7 night hotel, both flights and travel to the airport in Kavos is £539 each at the moment with TUI. I think the US3 are being clever here.
guyanam wrote:jetfuel wrote:Americans largely do not leave the USA for vacation
Really! I suspect that people living in Mexico and everywhere in the Caribbean except Cuba and Barbados would be shocked to hear this. The US market is far and way the largest source of tourism to the Caribbean and Mexico.
reffado wrote:Arion640 wrote:Holiday airlines seem to be a very European/Canadian thing due to the cold climates. Americans like to drive everywhere and may just drive upstate for a holiday etc. Or if you live in New York you may fly to LA etc, it just doesn't seem to be the same culture.
While I can't speak for the statistics, this sounds accurate to me. Last big vacation I took, I chose to drive the 5,000 miles instead of catching multiple flights. Saw much more, spent much less, and hours behind the wheel somehow still isn't as annoying as half the time in lines at airports. And, at times, I'd go miles without seeing a car with plates from the state I was actually in. Roadtripping is still very popular here, although one could argue that's because Europe has much more attractive airfares for continental travel most of the time, at least from what I've seen.
STLflyer wrote:Do the European and Canadian leisure airlines provide anything that their respective country's flag carriers don't? Thomas Cook and TUI fly London-Cancun, but so does BA. Condor flies Frankfurt-Cancun, but so does Lufthansa. Ditto for XL and Air France.
alan3 wrote:Forgive me but I couldn't find a recent similar discussion... Why doesn't the US have the same tradition of holiday leisure airlines, as in these examples from other countries.
Canada......Air Canada Rouge, Sunwing, Air Transat
UK......TUI-Thomson, Thomas Cook, and in the past Monarch, Brittania, etc.
France.....Corsair, XL Airways,.
Germany.....Condor
Switzerland......Edelweiss
Australia.......Jetstar
Netherlands.....TUI Fly
Turkey.....Corendon Airlines
Israel......Arkia, Sun D'Or
etc
STLflyer wrote:Do the European and Canadian leisure airlines provide anything that their respective country's flag carriers don't? Thomas Cook and TUI fly London-Cancun, but so does BA. Condor flies Frankfurt-Cancun, but so does Lufthansa. Ditto for XL and Air France.
Are the holiday airlines cheaper, or do they provide amazing package deals? All other things being just about equal, I'm trying to figure out why you'd fly one of those. If I were in France, I think I'd prefer to keep all my flying to Air France and accumulate miles on one program. If you fly AF for domestic and international flights to non-holiday destinations, and XL for flights to holiday destinations, you're accumulating miles on two separate programs and making it harder to achieve any sort of status or redeem them. It does you no good to have a few thousand miles spread across several different programs, as opposed to 30,000 miles on one program.
Samrnpage wrote:Being from the UK, do the US3 and main US airlines do package holidays like the european leisure airlines? For example TUI you can book flights, hotel, food and travel all under one price ?
dz09 wrote:most americans do not take vacations and the lucky ones only have a week a year.
alan3 wrote:Forgive me but I couldn't find a recent similar discussion... Why doesn't the US have the same tradition of holiday leisure airlines, as in these examples from other countries.
Canada......Air Canada Rouge, Sunwing, Air Transat
UK......TUI-Thomson, Thomas Cook, and in the past Monarch, Brittania, etc.
France.....Corsair, XL Airways,.
Germany.....Condor
Switzerland......Edelweiss
Australia.......Jetstar
Netherlands.....TUI Fly
Turkey.....Corendon Airlines
Israel......Arkia, Sun D'Or
etc
Most holiday flights from the US (to Caribbean in winter, to Europe in summer) seem to be operated by the mainline carriers or low cost airlines but not specifically to seasonal leisure-market holiday airlines. There is Sun Country (SY), but it seems to be an outlier and dominated around one hub. I know in the past, American Trans Air ATA.
I know there are some charter airlines like Apple Vacations and Vacation Express, but not really airlines that can compare to the above list.
Is it because the US has a different history of leisure travel and doesn't have large-scale tour operators like TUI or Sunwing?
777PHX wrote:We also don't get the same amount of vacation time here in the US that our European counterparts do. Four weeks is a pretty standard amount of vacation time for Europeans, no? That's what we *top out* at here in the US if we're *lucky*. Personally, I've been in my professional career now for more than a decade and I've never had more than three weeks. Vacations are looked at as a liability to large companies here in the US.
STLflyer wrote:Do the European and Canadian leisure airlines provide anything that their respective country's flag carriers don't? Thomas Cook and TUI fly London-Cancun, but so does BA. Condor flies Frankfurt-Cancun, but so does Lufthansa. Ditto for XL and Air France.
Are the holiday airlines cheaper, or do they provide amazing package deals?
aviatorcraig wrote:I don't know the American market very well but surely Allegiant would be called a "vacation airline" no?
NoTime wrote:Samrnpage wrote:Being from the UK, do the US3 and main US airlines do package holidays like the european leisure airlines? For example TUI you can book flights, hotel, food and travel all under one price ?
Yes, most major airlines in the US have some form of packaged vacations, but I don't believe they're advertised all that much.dz09 wrote:most americans do not take vacations and the lucky ones only have a week a year.
This isn't true. While a sizable portion of American workers don't have any paid vacation, it's not "most" of them. In fact, the average American worker gets 10 paid vacation days per year.
Anyhow, as for the lack of leisure airlines, could it simply be that they aren't needed because our existing, mainline carriers fill that role? I mean, AA, UA, DL and WN are the top four largest airlines by fleet size (?), and AA, UA and DL are 3 of the top 4 in terms of destinations served (not to mention the additional routes from alliance partners).
Factor in all the others (B6, F9, NK, G4, AS, HA) and you simply don't really have a need for any additional carriers...?
stl07 wrote:Driving culture, hubs in leisure cities - MIA, LAX, SFO, SEA, ANC, FLL, MCO, DFW, BNA etc. - as for international, except CUN,a massive hub and spoke establishment exists
Now that I think about it, a lot of our "leisure" destinations are in cities that have a large population or business offerings themselves, eliminating the need a "leisure" carrier in addition to a regular carrier.
alan3 wrote:STLflyer wrote:Do the European and Canadian leisure airlines provide anything that their respective country's flag carriers don't? Thomas Cook and TUI fly London-Cancun, but so does BA. Condor flies Frankfurt-Cancun, but so does Lufthansa. Ditto for XL and Air France.
Are the holiday airlines cheaper, or do they provide amazing package deals? All other things being just about equal, I'm trying to figure out why you'd fly one of those. If I were in France, I think I'd prefer to keep all my flying to Air France and accumulate miles on one program. If you fly AF for domestic and international flights to non-holiday destinations, and XL for flights to holiday destinations, you're accumulating miles on two separate programs and making it harder to achieve any sort of status or redeem them. It does you no good to have a few thousand miles spread across several different programs, as opposed to 30,000 miles on one program.
I can say in Canada, Winter getaway packages especially to Cuba and Dominican Republic are very popular, they are the lifeblood of airlines like Sunwing. First I think the convenience is one stop shopping: Air + all-inclusive resort with meals (+ airport transfers) in one click. And yes often better price than buying separate.
Also these airlines often fly to the resort from smaller secondary cities too, so there is no conecting through YYZ or YUL.
The market for these are often not heavy mileage travellers, but middle-class families looking for a quick easy 1 week getaway.
alan3 wrote:aviatorcraig wrote:I don't know the American market very well but surely Allegiant would be called a "vacation airline" no?
Allegiant is probably still considered an LCC, or more specifically an ULCC. I guess a main key in this if people are booking "packaged travel". Yes, they do have lots of routes to Florida and get lots of leisure travel that way, but they don't fly outside the US and don't even fly to Hawaii anymore.
aemoreira1981 wrote:alan3 wrote:STLflyer wrote:
Sunwing is basically TUI Canada, importing the business model of TUI into Canada (as well as aircraft transfers in the winter season); Sunwing is also 49 percent owned by TUI.
Now, as for the USA, I would argue that five airlines fit the mode: SY (which seasonally uses HV metal), G4 (which is a subsidiary of the Allegiant Travel Company), NK and F9 (maximum seating and tight pitch not unlike the traditional European LCCs like DY/DI/D8, EZ, FR, VY, and W6; NK has the Big Front seats) and for a surprise, B6 (on routes where it doesn't fly Mint and is all Y+ and Y, although B6's seat pitch is on par with old-style legacies and not traditional LCCs; I consider them a regular regional the way AS is for the West Coast). I would suspect that B6 doesn't want to go above 200 seats on its all-economy A321s (they were originally 190) to avoid paying a fifth flight attendant.
jetfuel wrote:Americans largely do not leave the USA for vacation
axiom wrote:MAH4546 wrote:jetfuel wrote:Americans largely do not leave the USA for vacation
No. Americans are usually the largest inbound long distance tourist group for just about any major country or region.
The primary reason is likely that most Americans don't travel on package vacations like the rest of the world. Except for Minnesotans.
Adjusting for the size and wealth of the country, I'm not sure that first point holds true. It may be true that there are a higher volume of Americans traveling abroad, but as a share of the national population I expect a different ranking.
MAH4546 wrote:jetfuel wrote:Americans largely do not leave the USA for vacation
No. Americans are usually the largest inbound long distance tourist group for just about any major country or region.
The primary reason is likely that most Americans don't travel on package vacations like the rest of the world. Except for Minnesotans.