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User avatar
yowgangsta
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:16 am

Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:08 pm

queb wrote:
EMBSPBR wrote:
Samrnpage wrote:
Does the E2 share type certification with the E1?


No, it does not.
It is a new certification.

Please refer to post #63:

"Now it´s oficial:
Source: https://embraer.com/global/en/news#/714 ... a-and-easa

https://embraer.com/global/en/news#/714 ... a-and-easa

The new Embraer commercial aircraft, the E190-E2, received the operational certification of
ANAC (National Civil Aviation Agency), FAA (Federal Aviation Administration) and EASA (Europeans Aviation Safety Agency) on Wednesday 28, 2018."


not true, the main advantage to modernize instead of clean-sheet design is to keep the same type certificate...

https://sistemas.anac.gov.br/certificac ... 13-23i.pdf


Correct. The entire E2 family is based on the 190 E1. The E2 190 is 190-300, E2 190 is 190-400, and E2 175 is 190-500.
 
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EMBSPBR
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:35 pm

yowgangsta wrote:
queb wrote:
EMBSPBR wrote:

No, it does not.
It is a new certification.
Please refer to post #63:
"Now it´s oficial:
Source: https://embraer.com/global/en/news#/714 ... a-and-easa
https://embraer.com/global/en/news#/714 ... a-and-easa
The new Embraer commercial aircraft, the E190-E2, received the operational certification of
ANAC (National Civil Aviation Agency), FAA (Federal Aviation Administration) and EASA (Europeans Aviation Safety Agency) on Wednesday 28, 2018."

not true, the main advantage to modernize instead of clean-sheet design is to keep the same type certificate...
https://sistemas.anac.gov.br/certificac ... 13-23i.pdf

Correct. The entire E2 family is based on the 190 E1. The E2 190 is 190-300, E2 190 is 190-400, and E2 175 is 190-500.


Except for the new E2 family sharing the same E1 family certificate, given the number of changes made to the new model, a new certification process was required, as discussed in post number 158:

lightsaber wrote:
EMBSPBR wrote:
queb wrote:
the question was if E1 and E2 share the same type certification, the answer is yes. The E1 name is ERJ 190-100/200 and the E2 is ERJ 190-300.

Ok.
Correted.
Same type certificate ?
Answered: yes.
Corrected.
Same plane: definitely no ...
New certification process required ?
Yes. ;)


Err...
1. New engines require re-certification.
2. New wing requires re-certification
3. New c.g. limits requires a sub-set of certification, I do not know if the E2-190 limits were enough... irrelevant with a new wing
4. New avionics require a sub-set of certification.
5. New avionics software of the magnitude requires about half of certification.
6. New actuators.

All the other new goodies require testing, but of far less concern.

The E2-190 is a wonderful improvement. But what wasn't recertified:
1. Landing gear, a very expensive recertification
2. Basic cockpit layout (excludes screens/controls).
3. Exits (no evacuation training)

and so on....
question, are the brakes new?
Tires?
Circuit breakers (unlikely due to all the changes, but why not ask)?
What is the status of the iron bird?
Lightsaber


And ..

Source: https://airinsight.com/will-embraers-e- ... to-the-e2/

"Will Embraer’s E-Jets Maturity Transition to the E2?"

Excerpts:

"The Iron Bird":

"The “Iron Bird” is a mechanical representation of the systems of the aircraft laid out on a frame rather than enclosed in a fuselage or wings, fully visible to engineers who can observe and test individual components. These systems range from engines to hydraulics and operational landing gear to cabin air handling to avionics and electronics. Virtually every system on the aircraft is represented and tested in the “Iron Bird” to ensure the robustness of components and determine the proper intervals for service checks. On the E2, extensive testing led to the establishment of 1,000-hour intermediate checks and 10,000 shop visits, up from 850 and 8,500 respectively on the E1 models."

"More than 45,000 hours of tests were completed on multiple system rigs, including more than 20 endurance tests on specific systems and components. More than 170 components had highly accelerated life tests performed, which enabled corrective actions after some of the components failed, thereby improving the durability of E2 systems."

"Embraer has an advantage in that it develops its fly-by-wire software in-house. This capability enables Embraer to quickly develop software with autonomy and flexibility, something it could not achieve through a supplier. The integration of flight controls was supported by more than 630,000 test hours on the test bench in an extensive hardware maturity campaign. The company has confidence in both its fourth-generation fly-by-wire capabilities and the maturity of the hardware as a result of extensive testing."

"Landing Gear":

"The more forward positioning of the new wing and larger engines required a redesign of the landing gear, and Embraer, the only major OEM that designs and builds its own landing gear, implemented a trailing arm system for the E2. Based on customer feedback, with more than 70 suggestions to improve reliability and ease of maintenance were incorporated into the new design. Lessons learned includes a removable axle and pintle pins for lubrication points to reduce corrosion. The new landing gear was tested to an endurance of 82,400 cycles under high and low extreme temperatures."
 
Nean1
Posts: 445
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:07 pm

EMBSPBR wrote:
yowgangsta wrote:
queb wrote:
not true, the main advantage to modernize instead of clean-sheet design is to keep the same type certificate...
https://sistemas.anac.gov.br/certificac ... 13-23i.pdf

Correct. The entire E2 family is based on the 190 E1. The E2 190 is 190-300, E2 190 is 190-400, and E2 175 is 190-500.


Except for the new E2 family sharing the same E1 family certificate, given the number of changes made to the new model, a new certification process was required, as discussed in post number 158:

lightsaber wrote:
EMBSPBR wrote:
Ok.
Correted.
Same type certificate ?
Answered: yes.
Corrected.
Same plane: definitely no ...
New certification process required ?
Yes. ;)


Err...
1. New engines require re-certification.
2. New wing requires re-certification
3. New c.g. limits requires a sub-set of certification, I do not know if the E2-190 limits were enough... irrelevant with a new wing
4. New avionics require a sub-set of certification.
5. New avionics software of the magnitude requires about half of certification.
6. New actuators.

All the other new goodies require testing, but of far less concern.

The E2-190 is a wonderful improvement. But what wasn't recertified:
1. Landing gear, a very expensive recertification
2. Basic cockpit layout (excludes screens/controls).
3. Exits (no evacuation training)

and so on....
question, are the brakes new?
Tires?
Circuit breakers (unlikely due to all the changes, but why not ask)?
What is the status of the iron bird?
Lightsaber


And ..

Source: https://airinsight.com/will-embraers-e- ... to-the-e2/

"Will Embraer’s E-Jets Maturity Transition to the E2?"

Excerpts:

"The Iron Bird":

"The “Iron Bird” is a mechanical representation of the systems of the aircraft laid out on a frame rather than enclosed in a fuselage or wings, fully visible to engineers who can observe and test individual components. These systems range from engines to hydraulics and operational landing gear to cabin air handling to avionics and electronics. Virtually every system on the aircraft is represented and tested in the “Iron Bird” to ensure the robustness of components and determine the proper intervals for service checks. On the E2, extensive testing led to the establishment of 1,000-hour intermediate checks and 10,000 shop visits, up from 850 and 8,500 respectively on the E1 models."

"More than 45,000 hours of tests were completed on multiple system rigs, including more than 20 endurance tests on specific systems and components. More than 170 components had highly accelerated life tests performed, which enabled corrective actions after some of the components failed, thereby improving the durability of E2 systems."

"Embraer has an advantage in that it develops its fly-by-wire software in-house. This capability enables Embraer to quickly develop software with autonomy and flexibility, something it could not achieve through a supplier. The integration of flight controls was supported by more than 630,000 test hours on the test bench in an extensive hardware maturity campaign. The company has confidence in both its fourth-generation fly-by-wire capabilities and the maturity of the hardware as a result of extensive testing."

"Landing Gear":

"The more forward positioning of the new wing and larger engines required a redesign of the landing gear, and Embraer, the only major OEM that designs and builds its own landing gear, implemented a trailing arm system for the E2. Based on customer feedback, with more than 70 suggestions to improve reliability and ease of maintenance were incorporated into the new design. Lessons learned includes a removable axle and pintle pins for lubrication points to reduce corrosion. The new landing gear was tested to an endurance of 82,400 cycles under high and low extreme temperatures."


EMBSPBR,

Useless to argue with these people. They do not accept Embraer's excellent project management and try to argue that the E2s are justa an warmed-over E1 . In fact, 75% of the aircraft are new, which made it possible to take a leap in efficiency higher than that experienced by the A32x and B737 families.
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:37 pm

Awesome to see a smooth EIS for Widerøe! Congrats to all parties involved!
@DadCelo
 
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EMBSPBR
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:18 pm

Nean1 wrote:
EMBSPBR,

Useless to argue with these people. They do not accept Embraer's excellent project management and try to argue that the E2s are justa an warmed-over E1 . In fact, 75% of the aircraft are new, which made it possible to take a leap in efficiency higher than that experienced by the A32x and B737 families.


Nean1,

The answer to no facts are the real facts, like this:

Source: https://airinsight.com/will-embraers-e- ... to-the-e2/

Will Embraer’s E-Jets Maturity Transition to the E2?

Excerpt:

"Avionics"

"While the cockpit itself is new, components feeding avionics have also been enhanced. One example is the air data smart probes that provide for more precise anemometric calibration. The new probes have passed both highly accelerated life tests and highly accelerated stress screening to improve component maturity. Even antennas have changed, with all E2 antennas being accessible and removable from outside the aircraft, with no interior panel movement required.

The E2 is also e-Enabled, with its own 4G and wi-fi communications capabilities to download data and update the flight management systems. The data downloads communicate directly to the AHEAD 2 aircraft health management system, providing preventive maintenance alerts and dispatch of parts for more efficient MRO that eliminates potential delays. Data from 29 LRUs are reported to the AHEAD 2 system for analytics."


"Lessons Learned"

"Embraer interviewed its customers for suggestions on improving the E-Jet and received more than 1,000 different suggestions. Of these, 97% were evaluated, and 94% implemented. Because operators understand best where potential bottlenecks or inefficiencies occur, Embraer sought out their advice to eliminate problems with the new aircraft before it entered service, based on the experience of 70 E1 operators in 60 counties around the world."
 
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YuriMG2
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:37 pm

$873 millions for 15 planes.

$58.2 millions each plane.

And people dare to say that selling the competitor for below $20mi is no dumping lol
 
FlyHappy
Posts: 1149
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 1:06 pm

Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:58 pm

YuriMG2 wrote:
$873 millions for 15 planes.

$58.2 millions each plane.

And people dare to say that selling the competitor for below $20mi is no dumping lol


that's "list price" and isn't a proper basis for comparison.
 
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EMBSPBR
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:36 pm

Source: https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/br ... al-flight/

"Milestone for Embraer's E2 jet as Widerøe operates first commercial flight
Embraer’s E-Jet E2 jet has completed its first commercial flight after departing from Bergen to Tromsø in Norway".


Excerpts:

"Scandinavian airline Widerøe today (24 April 2018) became the inaugural operator of Embraer’s E-Jet E2 jet after completing its first commercial flight, departing at 7.35am from Bergen to Tromsø in Norway."

"The 114-seat E190-E2 was delivered to the carrier earlier this month, less than five years after Embraer unveiled the project at the Paris Air Show in 2013."

Image
Mr. Rolando Corradini in the right side of picture.

"Speaking to Routesonline at Routes Europe 2018 in Bilbao, the company’s marketing manager for Central Europe, Rolando Corradini, said the first commercial flight was a huge occasion for both Embraer and Widerøe."

"Corradini said that initial feedback from passengers on test flights has been incredibly positive, particularly around the quietness of the cabin and the large luggage bins. In some flight conditions, cabin noise levels in the E2 are 50 percent lower than in the main competitor."

Personal note:

I had the pleasure to meet Mr. Rolando Corradini at "Le Salon International de l'Aéronautique et de l'Espace (SIAE) de Paris-Le Bourget" last year.
Mr. Corradini, a gentleman in all means, is the Embraer´s Manager in Netherlands office.
 
Someone83
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Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:00 am

EMBSPBR wrote:
Just after landed in Tromso from Bergen this morning.
First commercial flight of the E2.
Congratulations to all involved !!!


I was also on this flight. Even was interviewed by Embraer's PR/Social Media guys, but who knows if they will use it

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
 
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EMBSPBR
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:21 pm

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 19-448003/

"London City seeking E190-E2 certification in 2019"

London City airport is working with Embraer to obtain certification for the E190-E2 to operate out of the gateway during 2019.

Excerpts:

"Speaking to FlightGlobal at the Routes Europe conference in Bilbao on 23 April, London City chief executive Robert Sinclair says certifying the jet for the steep approach and "specific requirements" for operating out of London City is a "major objective" for the airport."

"Our plan is to have that [aircraft] certified during the course of 2019," he adds."

"He notes that Norwegian carrier Wideroe is planning to begin services between Kristiansand and London Stansted later this summer with the E2 and says London City is keeping a "very close eye" on the aircraft's operations."
 
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EMBSPBR
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:48 pm

LN-WEA, first E190-E2 to Wideroe - 3rd. day in regular service (note the number of daily flights increasing):

DATE / FROM / TO / FLIGHT NUMBER / DEPARTURE / ARRIVAL

26 Apr 2018 Kristiansand (KRS) Bergen (BGO) WF594 20:55 21:45
26 Apr 2018 Bergen (BGO) Kristiansand (KRS) WF597 18:05 18:55
26 Apr 2018 Oslo (TRF) Bergen (BGO) WF418 16:40 17:30
26 Apr 2018 Bergen (BGO Oslo (TRF) WF415 15:10 16:00
26 Apr 2018 Bodo (BOO) Bergen (BGO) WF61 12:25 14:00
26 Apr 2018 Bergen (BGO) Bodo (BOO) WF614 08:05 09:40
25 Apr 2018 Oslo (TRF) Bergen (BGO) WF424 20:05 20:55
25 Apr 2018 Bergen (BGO) Oslo (TRF) WF421 17:15 18:05
25 Apr 2018 Tromso (TOS) Bergen (BGO) WF623 10:55 12:55
25 Apr 2018 Bergen (BGO) Tromso (TOS) WF622 07:35 09:35
24 Apr 2018 Tromso (TOS) Bergen (BGO) WF623 11:35 13:36
24 Apr 2018 Bergen (BGO) Tromso (TOS) WF622] 07:35 09:35
 
Nean1
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:28 pm

EMBSPBR wrote:
LN-WEA, first E190-E2 to Wideroe - 3rd. day in regular service (note the number of daily flights increasing):

DATE / FROM / TO / FLIGHT NUMBER / DEPARTURE / ARRIVAL

26 Apr 2018 Kristiansand (KRS) Bergen (BGO) WF594 20:55 21:45
26 Apr 2018 Bergen (BGO) Kristiansand (KRS) WF597 18:05 18:55
26 Apr 2018 Oslo (TRF) Bergen (BGO) WF418 16:40 17:30
26 Apr 2018 Bergen (BGO Oslo (TRF) WF415 15:10 16:00
26 Apr 2018 Bodo (BOO) Bergen (BGO) WF61 12:25 14:00
26 Apr 2018 Bergen (BGO) Bodo (BOO) WF614 08:05 09:40
25 Apr 2018 Oslo (TRF) Bergen (BGO) WF424 20:05 20:55
25 Apr 2018 Bergen (BGO) Oslo (TRF) WF421 17:15 18:05
25 Apr 2018 Tromso (TOS) Bergen (BGO) WF623 10:55 12:55
25 Apr 2018 Bergen (BGO) Tromso (TOS) WF622 07:35 09:35
24 Apr 2018 Tromso (TOS) Bergen (BGO) WF623 11:35 13:36
24 Apr 2018 Bergen (BGO) Tromso (TOS) WF622] 07:35 09:35


EMBSPBR,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gj9qNrE7MVg
In this newly released video of the Belavia E175 at 0:55 the overhead bin is shown with the suitcase being loaded crosswise to the cabin, giving the impression that the luggage compartment has been increased. Would you know if the interior of the 175E1 underwent an E2-inspired review?

Another observation. In this video below of the maiden voyage the wing looks exceptionally clean, does not it?
https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/wideroe ... e2-flight/
 
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EMBSPBR
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Fri Apr 27, 2018 4:08 am

Nean1 wrote:
EMBSPBR,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gj9qNrE7MVg
In this newly released video of the Belavia E175 at 0:55 the overhead bin is shown with the suitcase being loaded crosswise to the cabin, giving the impression that the luggage compartment has been increased. Would you know if the interior of the 175E1 underwent an E2-inspired review?


Nean, the overhead bins are the same in the current version of others E175-E1. It seems in the movie is that is a regular suitecase.
On the E2, the new overhead bins are about 40% larger compared to current-generation E-Jets and it can stow a standard-size carry-on bag.

Nean1 wrote:
observation. In this video below of the maiden voyage the wing looks exceptionally clean, does not it?
https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/wideroe ... e2-flight/


Nean,

The Embraer's engineering was extremely strict in the aerodynamic "cleaning" of the E2 family.
On the E2 the flaps are single-slotted. They are double-slotted on the E1, which made them more complex to move and maintain, and they produced more drag. The slats are used aerodynamically on the E2 more than on the E1. The engine pylon is shorter than on the E1 and no longer attached to the flaps. It is slightly bent at the end to avoid turbulence and, in combination with the flap track fairing, it is used to produce a cleaner airflow.
The closed-loop fly-by-wire (FBW) system, now developed in-house and added to the project since its begning, influenced the design, the size and the weight of many components. For example, on the E2 the ailerons are used in more situations during the flight, so the engineers were able to save extra 200kg (440 lb) of the wing structure.
A surface forward of the vertical stabilizer and on the fuselage top is needed for stability on the E1, but not on the E2 any longer because the FBW system handles the requirement automatically.

By the way, the new color scheme of the new Belavia E175 is great.
It is a stylized version of the blue cornflower, symbol flower of Belarus:

Image

Image

Image
 
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EMBSPBR
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:44 pm

Source:http://aviationweek.com/crossover-narrowbody-jets/crossover-jet-makers-bet-middle-east-growth

Crossover Jet-makers Bet On Middle East Growth

Interesting numbers.

Excerpts:

"For a region that has seen considerable growth in airline traffic over the past 20 years, there is a remarkably small presence of crossover narrowbody jets in the Middle East. The vast majority of single-aisle aircraft designed for the 90-150-seat market operating in the region are the smallest members of the Airbus A320 and Boeing 737 families."

"Embraer’s 2017-2036 forecast expects the Middle East fleet to grow to 220 aircraft from 80. Raul Villaron, Embraer Commercial Aviation vice president of sales for the Middle East and Africa, is confident the E2 family will make inroads."

"Villaron points out that 60% of intraregion flights depart with fewer than 120 passengers. “But these have been served inefficiently, with large capacity narrowbody aircraft at low load factors. [It is] a rightsizing need E-Jets can easily solve at significantly higher profits. And there is some significant low-hanging fruit,” he observes."
 
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lollomz
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:15 pm

When Belavia will receive the first one?
[url="http://www.diecastmodelaircraft.com/collection/Lollomz"]Image[/url]
 
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EMBSPBR
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:54 pm

lollomz wrote:
When Belavia will receive the first one?


On service already:

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/ew-512po
 
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EMBSPBR
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 1:24 pm

The "Pioneer Airlines Flights" episodes.

"Pioneer Airlines" is an in-house Embraer operation that simulates actual airline operations, flying with typical airline utilization and turn times to ensure the reliability of the aircraft prior to EIS. More than 600 dedicated maturity flight tests were conducted after the aircraft was certified to ensure that the systems delivered to customers were performing at mature levels."

Image

Video #1 - Introduction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gngt57EKX70

Video #2 - Episode 1 "The Begnning": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGTCUXz3mbk

Video #3 - Episode 2: https://www.facebook.com/Embraer/videos ... 653613494/
 
TropicalSky
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 3:05 pm

Thanks for posting this.....very informative and awesome work by Embraer


EMBSPBR wrote:
The "Pioneer Airlines Flights" episodes.

"Pioneer Airlines" is an in-house Embraer operation that simulates actual airline operations, flying with typical airline utilization and turn times to ensure the reliability of the aircraft prior to EIS. More than 600 dedicated maturity flight tests were conducted after the aircraft was certified to ensure that the systems delivered to customers were performing at mature levels."

Image

Video #1 - Introduction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gngt57EKX70

Video #2 - Episode 1 "The Begnning": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGTCUXz3mbk

Video #3 - Episode 2: https://www.facebook.com/Embraer/videos ... 653613494/
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:29 pm

I see their first quarter earnings are out - did someone start a thread (I can't find it)?
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
Nean1
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:46 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
I see their first quarter earnings are out - did someone start a thread (I can't find it)?


PlanesNTrains,

Feel free to open this topic. You may bring good financial reports from a certain producer of airplanes and trains.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:24 pm

Nean1 wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
I see their first quarter earnings are out - did someone start a thread (I can't find it)?


PlanesNTrains,

Feel free to open this topic. You may bring good financial reports from a certain producer of airplanes and trains.


Actually, I was asking a legitimate question. I'll try to search again. And if you're referring to BBD, I have no clue - nor interest - in their financials as they've been discussed at length in recent threads. Additionally, with Boeing's interest in working with EMB, I thought someone would be able to discuss further how their health is and perhaps give some direction on future guidance.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
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EMBSPBR
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:44 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
Additionally, with Boeing's interest in working with EMB, I thought someone would be able to discuss further how their health is and perhaps give some direction on future guidance.


PlanesNTrains,

The topic here is about the Embraer E2 family Flight Testing And Production.

If you want to know something about Embraer and Boeing (and maybe financials), the tread is:
viewtopic.php?t=1381717

Thank you :)
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:43 am

EMBSPBR wrote:
And, in the "wave" of the party ...

Source: https://economia.uol.com.br/noticias/re ... residente- of-company.htm

"Embraer's president, Paulo Cesar de Souza e Silva, said on Wednesday that a company's partnership with Boeing is not vital to the future of the Brazilian aircraft manufacturer, although it continues in discussions with the North American company about a model of alliance that can be accepted by all parties involved, including the Brazilian government.

"The partnership with Boeing is not vital to Embraer," said the executive at a ceremony to deliver the first airplane of the new family of passenger jets, an E190 -E2 for the Norwegian airline Widerøe."


Sorry - I guess when you brought it up I figured it was ok. My bad.

I did start another thread on the financials and appreciate the link to the other thread.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
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EMBSPBR
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:00 pm

Second E190-E2 to be delivered to Wideroe in a test flight:

Image
 
Nean1
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Thu May 03, 2018 1:07 am

EMBSPBR wrote:
LN-WEA, first E190-E2 to Wideroe - 3rd. day in regular service (note the number of daily flights increasing):

DATE / FROM / TO / FLIGHT NUMBER / DEPARTURE / ARRIVAL

26 Apr 2018 Kristiansand (KRS) Bergen (BGO) WF594 20:55 21:45
26 Apr 2018 Bergen (BGO) Kristiansand (KRS) WF597 18:05 18:55
26 Apr 2018 Oslo (TRF) Bergen (BGO) WF418 16:40 17:30
26 Apr 2018 Bergen (BGO Oslo (TRF) WF415 15:10 16:00
26 Apr 2018 Bodo (BOO) Bergen (BGO) WF61 12:25 14:00
26 Apr 2018 Bergen (BGO) Bodo (BOO) WF614 08:05 09:40
25 Apr 2018 Oslo (TRF) Bergen (BGO) WF424 20:05 20:55
25 Apr 2018 Bergen (BGO) Oslo (TRF) WF421 17:15 18:05
25 Apr 2018 Tromso (TOS) Bergen (BGO) WF623 10:55 12:55
25 Apr 2018 Bergen (BGO) Tromso (TOS) WF622 07:35 09:35
24 Apr 2018 Tromso (TOS) Bergen (BGO) WF623 11:35 13:36
24 Apr 2018 Bergen (BGO) Tromso (TOS) WF622] 07:35 09:35


EMBSPBR,

After a week flying 4 segments a day, the LN-WEA had a busy May 2nd with 8 flights.

02 May 2018 Kristiansand (KRS) Bergen (BGO) WF594 0:37 10:00 PM 10:10 PM 10:50 PM
02 May 2018 Bergen (BGO) Kristiansand (KRS) WF597 0:40 8:35 PM 8:54 PM 9:25 PM
02 May 2018 Oslo (TRF) Bergen (BGO) WF424 - 6:40 PM - 7:30 PM
02 May 2018 Bergen (BGO) Oslo (TRF) WF421 0:44 5:15 PM 5:34 PM 6:05 PM
02 May 2018 Oslo (TRF) Bergen (BGO) WF414 0:41 2:00 PM 2:43 PM 2:50 PM
02 May 2018 Bergen (BGO) Oslo (TRF) WF411 0:45 12:35 PM 1:17 PM 1:25 PM
02 May 2018 Bodo (BOO) Bergen (BGO) WF615 1:25 10:25 AM 10:59 AM 12:00 PM
02 May 2018 Bergen (BGO) Bodo (BOO) WF614 1:18 7:45 AM 8:14 AM 9:20 AM
 
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Thu May 03, 2018 2:05 am

Nean1 wrote:

EMBSPBR,

After a week flying 4 segments a day, the LN-WEA had a busy May 2nd with 8 flights.

02 May 2018 Kristiansand (KRS) Bergen (BGO) WF594 0:37 10:00 PM 10:10 PM 10:50 PM
02 May 2018 Bergen (BGO) Kristiansand (KRS) WF597 0:40 8:35 PM 8:54 PM 9:25 PM
02 May 2018 Oslo (TRF) Bergen (BGO) WF424 - 6:40 PM - 7:30 PM
02 May 2018 Bergen (BGO) Oslo (TRF) WF421 0:44 5:15 PM 5:34 PM 6:05 PM
02 May 2018 Oslo (TRF) Bergen (BGO) WF414 0:41 2:00 PM 2:43 PM 2:50 PM
02 May 2018 Bergen (BGO) Oslo (TRF) WF411 0:45 12:35 PM 1:17 PM 1:25 PM
02 May 2018 Bodo (BOO) Bergen (BGO) WF615 1:25 10:25 AM 10:59 AM 12:00 PM
02 May 2018 Bergen (BGO) Bodo (BOO) WF614 1:18 7:45 AM 8:14 AM 9:20 AM


Nean1, as it is the first one, those are great numbers.

And the feedback is Wideroe and passengers are loving the plane ...

The second E190-E2 is on a test flight and should be delivered soon to Wideroe.
 
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Thu May 03, 2018 2:15 am

Nean1 wrote:
EMBSPBR wrote:
LN-WEA, first E190-E2 to Wideroe - 3rd. day in regular service (note the number of daily flights increasing):

DATE / FROM / TO / FLIGHT NUMBER / DEPARTURE / ARRIVAL

26 Apr 2018 Kristiansand (KRS) Bergen (BGO) WF594 20:55 21:45
26 Apr 2018 Bergen (BGO) Kristiansand (KRS) WF597 18:05 18:55
26 Apr 2018 Oslo (TRF) Bergen (BGO) WF418 16:40 17:30
26 Apr 2018 Bergen (BGO Oslo (TRF) WF415 15:10 16:00
26 Apr 2018 Bodo (BOO) Bergen (BGO) WF61 12:25 14:00
26 Apr 2018 Bergen (BGO) Bodo (BOO) WF614 08:05 09:40
25 Apr 2018 Oslo (TRF) Bergen (BGO) WF424 20:05 20:55
25 Apr 2018 Bergen (BGO) Oslo (TRF) WF421 17:15 18:05
25 Apr 2018 Tromso (TOS) Bergen (BGO) WF623 10:55 12:55
25 Apr 2018 Bergen (BGO) Tromso (TOS) WF622 07:35 09:35
24 Apr 2018 Tromso (TOS) Bergen (BGO) WF623 11:35 13:36
24 Apr 2018 Bergen (BGO) Tromso (TOS) WF622] 07:35 09:35


EMBSPBR,

After a week flying 4 segments a day, the LN-WEA had a busy May 2nd with 8 flights.

02 May 2018 Kristiansand (KRS) Bergen (BGO) WF594 0:37 10:00 PM 10:10 PM 10:50 PM
02 May 2018 Bergen (BGO) Kristiansand (KRS) WF597 0:40 8:35 PM 8:54 PM 9:25 PM
02 May 2018 Oslo (TRF) Bergen (BGO) WF424 - 6:40 PM - 7:30 PM
02 May 2018 Bergen (BGO) Oslo (TRF) WF421 0:44 5:15 PM 5:34 PM 6:05 PM
02 May 2018 Oslo (TRF) Bergen (BGO) WF414 0:41 2:00 PM 2:43 PM 2:50 PM
02 May 2018 Bergen (BGO) Oslo (TRF) WF411 0:45 12:35 PM 1:17 PM 1:25 PM
02 May 2018 Bodo (BOO) Bergen (BGO) WF615 1:25 10:25 AM 10:59 AM 12:00 PM
02 May 2018 Bergen (BGO) Bodo (BOO) WF614 1:18 7:45 AM 8:14 AM 9:20 AM

8 flights a day is excellent for a new iteration.

This plane is really being used as a regional jet. Average flight well under an hour. The TCON range isn't being tested, yet. ;)

LIghtsaber
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Fri May 04, 2018 11:56 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Nean1 wrote:
EMBSPBR wrote:
LN-WEA, first E190-E2 to Wideroe - 3rd. day in regular service (note the number of daily flights increasing):

DATE / FROM / TO / FLIGHT NUMBER / DEPARTURE / ARRIVAL

26 Apr 2018 Kristiansand (KRS) Bergen (BGO) WF594 20:55 21:45
26 Apr 2018 Bergen (BGO) Kristiansand (KRS) WF597 18:05 18:55
26 Apr 2018 Oslo (TRF) Bergen (BGO) WF418 16:40 17:30
26 Apr 2018 Bergen (BGO Oslo (TRF) WF415 15:10 16:00
26 Apr 2018 Bodo (BOO) Bergen (BGO) WF61 12:25 14:00
26 Apr 2018 Bergen (BGO) Bodo (BOO) WF614 08:05 09:40
25 Apr 2018 Oslo (TRF) Bergen (BGO) WF424 20:05 20:55
25 Apr 2018 Bergen (BGO) Oslo (TRF) WF421 17:15 18:05
25 Apr 2018 Tromso (TOS) Bergen (BGO) WF623 10:55 12:55
25 Apr 2018 Bergen (BGO) Tromso (TOS) WF622 07:35 09:35
24 Apr 2018 Tromso (TOS) Bergen (BGO) WF623 11:35 13:36
24 Apr 2018 Bergen (BGO) Tromso (TOS) WF622] 07:35 09:35


EMBSPBR,

After a week flying 4 segments a day, the LN-WEA had a busy May 2nd with 8 flights.

02 May 2018 Kristiansand (KRS) Bergen (BGO) WF594 0:37 10:00 PM 10:10 PM 10:50 PM
02 May 2018 Bergen (BGO) Kristiansand (KRS) WF597 0:40 8:35 PM 8:54 PM 9:25 PM
02 May 2018 Oslo (TRF) Bergen (BGO) WF424 - 6:40 PM - 7:30 PM
02 May 2018 Bergen (BGO) Oslo (TRF) WF421 0:44 5:15 PM 5:34 PM 6:05 PM
02 May 2018 Oslo (TRF) Bergen (BGO) WF414 0:41 2:00 PM 2:43 PM 2:50 PM
02 May 2018 Bergen (BGO) Oslo (TRF) WF411 0:45 12:35 PM 1:17 PM 1:25 PM
02 May 2018 Bodo (BOO) Bergen (BGO) WF615 1:25 10:25 AM 10:59 AM 12:00 PM
02 May 2018 Bergen (BGO) Bodo (BOO) WF614 1:18 7:45 AM 8:14 AM 9:20 AM

8 flights a day is excellent for a new iteration.

This plane is really being used as a regional jet. Average flight well under an hour. The TCON range isn't being tested, yet. ;)

LIghtsaber


Lightsaber,

It seems Wideroe is stabilizing the use of the 190E2 in 8 trips a day, always departing from Bergen. This has been the pace in the last 3 days. The typical trip is 1 hour + - 20 min.

I think we'll have to wait before we measure the performance of the 190E2 on trips above 2000 nm. I understand Wideroe, even by the tight setting (29 "pitch), will focus on trips of up to 2 hours.
 
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Wed May 09, 2018 5:26 am

What is the status for the 2nd E2 for Widerøe? AFAIK it should be delivered rather som?
 
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Wed May 09, 2018 5:50 am

Nean1 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Nean1 wrote:

EMBSPBR,

After a week flying 4 segments a day, the LN-WEA had a busy May 2nd with 8 flights.

02 May 2018 Kristiansand (KRS) Bergen (BGO) WF594 0:37 10:00 PM 10:10 PM 10:50 PM
02 May 2018 Bergen (BGO) Kristiansand (KRS) WF597 0:40 8:35 PM 8:54 PM 9:25 PM
02 May 2018 Oslo (TRF) Bergen (BGO) WF424 - 6:40 PM - 7:30 PM
02 May 2018 Bergen (BGO) Oslo (TRF) WF421 0:44 5:15 PM 5:34 PM 6:05 PM
02 May 2018 Oslo (TRF) Bergen (BGO) WF414 0:41 2:00 PM 2:43 PM 2:50 PM
02 May 2018 Bergen (BGO) Oslo (TRF) WF411 0:45 12:35 PM 1:17 PM 1:25 PM
02 May 2018 Bodo (BOO) Bergen (BGO) WF615 1:25 10:25 AM 10:59 AM 12:00 PM
02 May 2018 Bergen (BGO) Bodo (BOO) WF614 1:18 7:45 AM 8:14 AM 9:20 AM

8 flights a day is excellent for a new iteration.

This plane is really being used as a regional jet. Average flight well under an hour. The TCON range isn't being tested, yet. ;)

LIghtsaber


Lightsaber,

It seems Wideroe is stabilizing the use of the 190E2 in 8 trips a day, always departing from Bergen. This has been the pace in the last 3 days. The typical trip is 1 hour + - 20 min.

I think we'll have to wait before we measure the performance of the 190E2 on trips above 2000 nm. I understand Wideroe, even by the tight setting (29 "pitch), will focus on trips of up to 2 hours.

I feel I wasn't clear. 8 flights per day is very excellent for the first example of the E2-190. I'm impressed. This is full utilization. Within the first month

I look forward to other operators that use the range. But I respect, one step at a time.

Lightsaber
I cannot wait to get vaccinated to live again! Warning: I simulated that it takes 50%+ vaccinated to protect the vaccinated and 75%+ vaccinated to protect the vac-hesitant.
 
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Wed May 09, 2018 1:29 pm

The entry into service seems to really be quite smooth with 8 flights every day. The time between scales is as small as 25 minutes, with 35-45 minutes being a typical wait.

An interesting read is the article below:
https://runwaygirlnetwork.com/2018/05/0 ... ice-entry/
 
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Wed May 09, 2018 2:48 pm

Nean1 wrote:
The entry into service seems to really be quite smooth with 8 flights every day. The time between scales is as small as 25 minutes, with 35-45 minutes being a typical wait.

An interesting read is the article below:
https://runwaygirlnetwork.com/2018/05/0 ... ice-entry/

So 8*40=320 minutes or 5.33 hours for turning 8 flights. I calculated a mere 5 hours of flight time per day.

So by my estimation, we'll see another 2 turns per day once the aircraft is mature. Possibly more during peak season (which we are not yet in). Actually, many more...

Serious question, could they rival HA for utilization (14 per day average, 17 per day in peak season)? My math tops out earlier due to long taxi times, at 12 flights per day. Opinions?

What is comparable CS100 and CS300 utilization?

Lightsaber
I cannot wait to get vaccinated to live again! Warning: I simulated that it takes 50%+ vaccinated to protect the vaccinated and 75%+ vaccinated to protect the vac-hesitant.
 
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Wed May 09, 2018 3:08 pm

A little more analysis. I took prior numbers at Faith. Current ground time between flights is almost 7 hours. While such conservative planning is good for EIS, it is too high for a mature product.

Certain flights take longer than others. Start the day at 6am and fly later, say 2am. The current schedule should be 6am to 7pm. Add one hour for recovery time/maintenance around lunch and that leaves 8pm to 2am for more flights. With an average flight time of 1 hour (gate to gate, not air hours) and 40 minute turns, that actually one more station takes to 11pm to midnight. Two (4 segments) to 2am to 4am.

But if the buffer could be 45 minutes and 35 minute turns, the current schedule ends at 7pm and two more segments ends at 1am to 2am...

So I still arrive at a maximum 12 flights per day. Hmm... Taxi times and flight times make HA operation levels not plausible... :( But still amazing utilization will happen! I fully expect to see that level bof utilization summer 2019.

Embraer gets to debug the plane first.

I'M,m amazed how much better EIS is than the E1-190 aka E-180.

Lightsaber
I cannot wait to get vaccinated to live again! Warning: I simulated that it takes 50%+ vaccinated to protect the vaccinated and 75%+ vaccinated to protect the vac-hesitant.
 
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Wed May 09, 2018 4:32 pm

That's the result of Embraer doing all the system integration in house since Legacy 500. In the E1, Honeywell was responsible for the system integration for Avionics, Parker for Flight Controls, and so on. Although these suppliers have very good technology to offer, they do not have the whole aircraft view to integrate them with other systems. Another major factor that is helping E2 is that there is not a single LRU in this aircraft which has not be in service in other ones. For example, the fly-by-wire is based on the same computers used on the 747-8.
 
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Wed May 09, 2018 4:46 pm

lightsaber wrote:
A little more analysis. I took prior numbers at Faith. Current ground time between flights is almost 7 hours. While such conservative planning is good for EIS, it is too high for a mature product.
Lightsaber


Lightsaber,
I think it is most probably more due to Wideroe's schedule of flights than with the airplane itself.
Compare the times of the STD, ATD, STA and ATA and you will see that the plane has practically fulfilled the schedule.
Since the EIS of the plane was last April 24, after only 14 days of operation for a new aircraft (for Embraer and Wideroe), I believe that these are good and promising numbers.
It is also worth remembering that the aircraft has 114 seats compared to the 78 seats of the Q400 that Wideroe operates, which in some way implies an adaptation of operations personnel.

Someone83 wrote:
What is the status for the 2nd E2 for Widerøe? AFAIK it should be delivered rather som?


Someone83,
by the end of this month Wideroe should receive its second E190-E2 ...
 
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Wed May 09, 2018 4:47 pm

[quote="lightsaber"]A little more analysis. I took prior numbers at Faith. Current ground time between flights is almost 7 hours. While such conservative planning is good for EIS, it is too high for a mature product.

Certain flights take longer than others. Start the day at 6am and fly later, say 2am. The current schedule should be 6am to 7pm. Add one hour for recovery time/maintenance around lunch and that leaves 8pm to 2am for more flights. With an average flight time of 1 hour (gate to gate, not air hours) and 40 minute turns, that actually one more station takes to 11pm to midnight. Two (4 segments) to 2am to 4am.

But if the buffer could be 45 minutes and 35 minute turns, the current schedule ends at 7pm and two more segments ends at 1am to 2am...

So I still arrive at a maximum 12 flights per day. Hmm... Taxi times and flight times make HA operation levels not plausible... :( But still amazing utilization will happen! I fully expect to see that level bof utilization summer 2019.

Embraer gets to debug the plane first.

I'M,m amazed how much better EIS is than the E1-190 aka E-180.

Lightsaber,

Even considering the expected maturation I have doubts that the conditions in Norway will allow a use as intense as places of milder climate. There should not be too much demand for flights departing or arriving on the 00-06AM window, with so little light and intense cold.
 
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Wed May 09, 2018 8:17 pm

EMBSPBR wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
A little more analysis. I took prior numbers at Faith. Current ground time between flights is almost 7 hours. While such conservative planning is good for EIS, it is too high for a mature product.
Lightsaber


Lightsaber,
I think it is most probably more due to Wideroe's schedule of flights than with the airplane itself.
Compare the times of the STD, ATD, STA and ATA and you will see that the plane has practically fulfilled the schedule.
Since the EIS of the plane was last April 24, after only 14 days of operation for a new aircraft (for Embraer and Wideroe), I believe that these are good and promising numbers.
It is also worth remembering that the aircraft has 114 seats compared to the 78 seats of the Q400 that Wideroe operates, which in some way implies an adaptation of operations personnel.

Someone83 wrote:
What is the status for the 2nd E2 for Widerøe? AFAIK it should be delivered rather som?


Someone83,
by the end of this month Wideroe should receive its second E190-E2 ...


EMBSPBR.

Would you know the Brazilian (provisional) registration for the 2nd aircraft that will be delivered to Wideroe?
 
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Wed May 09, 2018 9:39 pm

Source: https://runwaygirlnetwork.com/2018/05/0 ... ice-entry/

Excerpt (I like this):

"The lack of engine noise is actually something you quickly accept, until you find you’re conversing across the width of the cabin without raised voices."

"Sitting in 6F and realizing the uniqueness of this cross-cabin comms, your author glanced out the window for a stunning reminder of just how close the massive engine cowling was and how little evidence there is of anything working inside."

"There are moments, especially on takeoff and in the climb when the brain struggles to comprehend how the E2 is managing to fly at all."


Image
Large windows and large nacelles from 6F. Image: Paul Eden.
 
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Wed May 09, 2018 10:40 pm

Nean1 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
A little more analysis. I took prior numbers at Faith. Current ground time between flights is almost 7 hours. While such conservative planning is good for EIS, it is too high for a mature product.

Certain flights take longer than others. Start the day at 6am and fly later, say 2am. The current schedule should be 6am to 7pm. Add one hour for recovery time/maintenance around lunch and that leaves 8pm to 2am for more flights. With an average flight time of 1 hour (gate to gate, not air hours) and 40 minute turns, that actually one more station takes to 11pm to midnight. Two (4 segments) to 2am to 4am.

But if the buffer could be 45 minutes and 35 minute turns, the current schedule ends at 7pm and two more segments ends at 1am to 2am...

So I still arrive at a maximum 12 flights per day. Hmm... Taxi times and flight times make HA operation levels not plausible... :( But still amazing utilization will happen! I fully expect to see that level bof utilization summer 2019.

Embraer gets to debug the plane first.

I'M,m amazed how much better EIS is than the E1-190 aka E-180.

Lightsaber,

Even considering the expected maturation I have doubts that the conditions in Norway will allow a use as intense as places of milder climate. There should not be too much demand for flights departing or arriving on the 00-06AM window, with so little light and intense cold.

I'm amazed how well the plane is doing. Maybe my oriposed. I'm not criticizing...

I'm seeing if we have a worthy successor to the Douglas T-tails. Everyone should be impressed that a cynical person such as myself is considering such a possibility.

:stirthepot:

Think of the implications of what I'm pushing to achieve. I'm about the most agressive test engineers in the industry. I routinely set aircraft limits higher than specifications, because I know how. Heck, I just stirred up my entire program and the end result? I'm pushing us into a brave New world with wonderful sales opportunities.

Everyone should consider how my prior schedule push will sell more E2. Peak season (summer) should have much more demand. If that demand can be met with fewer aircraft, it means a regional operator breaks out due to a cost advantage.

I'm excited as I simply haven't seen this good of EIS for a significant change since the 717.

Lightsaber
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Wed May 09, 2018 10:53 pm

Very promising analysis, Lightsaber. Thanks for hashing that out. :-)
-Dave


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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Thu May 10, 2018 2:38 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Nean1 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
A little more analysis. I took prior numbers at Faith. Current ground time between flights is almost 7 hours. While such conservative planning is good for EIS, it is too high for a mature product.

Certain flights take longer than others. Start the day at 6am and fly later, say 2am. The current schedule should be 6am to 7pm. Add one hour for recovery time/maintenance around lunch and that leaves 8pm to 2am for more flights. With an average flight time of 1 hour (gate to gate, not air hours) and 40 minute turns, that actually one more station takes to 11pm to midnight. Two (4 segments) to 2am to 4am.

But if the buffer could be 45 minutes and 35 minute turns, the current schedule ends at 7pm and two more segments ends at 1am to 2am...

So I still arrive at a maximum 12 flights per day. Hmm... Taxi times and flight times make HA operation levels not plausible... :( But still amazing utilization will happen! I fully expect to see that level bof utilization summer 2019.

Embraer gets to debug the plane first.

I'M,m amazed how much better EIS is than the E1-190 aka E-180.

Lightsaber,

Even considering the expected maturation I have doubts that the conditions in Norway will allow a use as intense as places of milder climate. There should not be too much demand for flights departing or arriving on the 00-06AM window, with so little light and intense cold.

I'm amazed how well the plane is doing. Maybe my oriposed. I'm not criticizing...

I'm seeing if we have a worthy successor to the Douglas T-tails. Everyone should be impressed that a cynical person such as myself is considering such a possibility.

:stirthepot:

Think of the implications of what I'm pushing to achieve. I'm about the most agressive test engineers in the industry. I routinely set aircraft limits higher than specifications, because I know how. Heck, I just stirred up my entire program and the end result? I'm pushing us into a brave New world with wonderful sales opportunities.

Everyone should consider how my prior schedule push will sell more E2. Peak season (summer) should have much more demand. If that demand can be met with fewer aircraft, it means a regional operator breaks out due to a cost advantage.

I'm excited as I simply haven't seen this good of EIS for a significant change since the 717.

Lightsaber


What was it about the design and structure of the Douglas T Tails that made them so excellent at insanely high utilization and what is it about the E2 that makes it have the potential to become a great replacement for that segment? Is it that it takes a forward thought and lots of work to get a frame optimized enough to be able to do as many turns and as high of utilization or is it that it's very expensive on the front end and there hasn't generally been a market. I agree that if a smaller plane can get close to the seat mile costs of larger and also have the ability for crazy utilization it has the potential to find itself in fleets just because of the versatility. Does the C Series have the same potential in your mind for this kind of niche or has Embraer taken a different approach trading edge of envelope performance and range for a short haul optimized frame?

Thanks!
Erik Berg
“Little by little, we advance with each turn. That's how a drill works!”
 
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Thu May 10, 2018 3:33 pm

iceberg210 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Nean1 wrote:

I'm amazed how well the plane is doing. Maybe my oriposed. I'm not criticizing...

I'm seeing if we have a worthy successor to the Douglas T-tails. Everyone should be impressed that a cynical person such as myself is considering such a possibility.

:stirthepot:

Think of the implications of what I'm pushing to achieve. I'm about the most agressive test engineers in the industry. I routinely set aircraft limits higher than specifications, because I know how. Heck, I just stirred up my entire program and the end result? I'm pushing us into a brave New world with wonderful sales opportunities.

Everyone should consider how my prior schedule push will sell more E2. Peak season (summer) should have much more demand. If that demand can be met with fewer aircraft, it means a regional operator breaks out due to a cost advantage.

I'm excited as I simply haven't seen this good of EIS for a significant change since the 717.

Lightsaber


What was it about the design and structure of the Douglas T Tails that made them so excellent at insanely high utilization and what is it about the E2 that makes it have the potential to become a great replacement for that segment? Is it that it takes a forward thought and lots of work to get a frame optimized enough to be able to do as many turns and as high of utilization or is it that it's very expensive on the front end and there hasn't generally been a market. I agree that if a smaller plane can get close to the seat mile costs of larger and also have the ability for crazy utilization it has the potential to find itself in fleets just because of the versatility. Does the C Series have the same potential in your mind for this kind of niche or has Embraer taken a different approach trading edge of envelope performance and range for a short haul optimized frame?

Thanks!

Answering the questions in three parts:
Why could the Douglas frames due such high utilization?
1. Doulas was ahead on fatigue analysis which ensured early reliability.
2. Douglas went for simplified subsystems (excluding a major oops on the MD-90) with redundancy that allowed more MELs for dispatch. You could pin many a subsystem on (higher fuel burn) and dispatch a t-tail.
3. Lower bypass engines which have shorter cooling times.

Why does the Embraer have the ability to match?
1. A complete redesign of subsystems that while advanced, are a digital version of Douglas concepts.
2. The ability to trade fuel burn for dispatch along Douglas lines.
3. The PW1900G should cool down faster and windmilling was added to speed cool down.
4. Trailed Bombardier and learned from their mistakes.
5. Had too many customer complaints on original E-190 software issues to not design in many more work around (buffer flushing, quick reboot, much better testing of software state changes). Much of this done by turning off some advanced features that only calculate now, rather than act. This increases maintenance costs over the first decade (nothing is free in engineering).

Could the C-series acheive similar utilization?
Based off AirBaltic performance, eventually. As with the first E-190s, Bombardier needs to fix software faults and a few bad subsystem components. I believe the latest parts are fixed. Because of fatigue advantages of CFRP, older C-series will have a maintenance cost advantage... Eventually (not yet).

There is a cost to this approach, fuel burn. The PW1500/1900G burn about 4% more fuel for the compromises required compared to the PW1100G design However, I believe the PW1100G is paying in seal issues. Just to be clear, why the PW1500/1900G and PW1100G are related designs, there are aspects of the high compressor, high turbine, and fan that I can identify as different that drive the fuel burn difference and cooling time difference.

Also, the PW1500/1900G is obviously optimized for the 1 hour quick turn mission (a la BR700) and not for cruise fuel burn.

Airbus mandated optimization for a 2 hour mission for the NEO. Airbus impossed no island hopping quick turn requirement as that market was smaller than the growing 2 to 5 hour market.

So once the NEO, MAX, C-series, and E2 jets are in full production, we will see specialization by optimized mission lengths.

I speculate Embraer was highly influenced by JetBlue's complaints (E-jet fleet leader due to high utilization) and a few failed sales campaigns to island hopping airlines, including HA.

Much of why they lost sales to island hopping airlines needed could be easily described to an engineer:
1. Quicker cargo load/unload (get rid of everything that snagged bags or people).
2. Quicker aircraft start (fast avionics self check, 20X faster than E-190).
3. Instantaneous and automatic recovery on MEL detected by software.
4. Fix subsystems so faults are know prior to startup for the day. (If something is failing, notify the mechanics the night before, not at the morning start up).
5. If engine start is having issues, have a fix that takes seconds to impliment (I really like the engine start subsystem, until Mitsubishi came up with a better new idea of putting on a heavy duty lawnmower start pull. No tool, just lift a cover and YANK. No training required as you start a jet engine by yanking the lawnmower starter cord. Mitsubishi patents.).

inhttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/tra ... -1-53.html a mechanic assisted start, assume a very strong mechanic cranked the starter

And do so with far lower fuel burn than the CF-34-10 and a lower maintenance bill.

Lightsaber
I cannot wait to get vaccinated to live again! Warning: I simulated that it takes 50%+ vaccinated to protect the vaccinated and 75%+ vaccinated to protect the vac-hesitant.
 
iceberg210
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Thu May 10, 2018 4:04 pm

Thanks so much for the explanation makes a lot more sense now. It makes sense that you'd make it so that subsystems having issues might result in higher fuel burn or other trade offs but you could still dispatch the plane, instead of having it be a go no go situation. It's similar to trade offs made in my industry with systems on ski lifts, didn't understand how it related to airframes.

Good to see Embraer learning from past experience and turning out what appears to have serious potential as a winner. I love the idea of doing Douglas concepts digitally (it's kind of what we do on skilifts with computers handling relay logic). Thanks again for the information!
Erik Berg
“Little by little, we advance with each turn. That's how a drill works!”
 
MileHFL400
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Thu May 10, 2018 5:48 pm

Hello, just noticed that the E2 family only has 228 firm orders so far and zero from blue chip airlines. Isn’t this risky for the program?
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Thu May 10, 2018 6:05 pm

MileHFL400 wrote:
Hello, just noticed that the E2 family only has 228 firm orders so far and zero from blue chip airlines. Isn’t this risky for the program?


Based on everything Lightsaber has described, as last by as EIS and fuel burn meet or exceed expectations (so far, so good), the orders will follow.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
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EMBSPBR
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Thu May 10, 2018 6:36 pm

MileHFL400 wrote:
Hello, just noticed that the E2 family only has 228 firm orders so far and zero from blue chip airlines. Isn’t this risky for the program?


A "blue chip airline" for you (yes, there is a whole world more than that many others here can imagine):

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... e2-434992/

"Brazil’s Azul, already the world’s largest operator of the current generation Embraer 195, will be the launch operator of the re-engined E195-E2."

Excerpts:

"The Brazilian carrier has an order for up to 50 E195-E2s, comprising 30 firm orders and 20 purchase rights. The airline will configure its new aircraft in a single-class layout with 130 seats."

"Embraer is targetting to deliver the first E195-E2 in the first half of 2019."

"Azul has 73 E-Jets in service. Flight Fleets Analyzer shows that 64 of these are E195s."
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Fri May 11, 2018 12:26 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
MileHFL400 wrote:
Hello, just noticed that the E2 family only has 228 firm orders so far and zero from blue chip airlines. Isn’t this risky for the program?


Based on everything Lightsaber has described, as last by as EIS and fuel burn meet or exceed expectations (so far, so good), the orders will follow.

:yes:. Due to the unusually good EIS, my opinion of the prospects of the E2-190/195 has inproved tremendously. I'm going to admit I was cynical. Why? I was a fan of the E-190 and the first five years didn't perform to my standards. The island hopping bids were lost on very valid reasons that add cost. My overview was... simplified. If I listed a bunch of stuff that each cost a few dollars per day, we would just argue. What matters is the E2 brought down costs (CASK) to a working level. The level the E1 achieved worked prior to high LCC growth.

Oh, I do think not one E2-175 will be delivered. My opinion is that by Farnborough, we'll have orders with production growing to healthy economies of scale.

I'm also a cynical who expects major issues to be found. I would be most happy is service remained smooth. It is not required for success. There will be issues to address.

If you want an example of myself taking the alternative opinion, find me on ARJ-21 threads. But I had insight into the qualification process that gave a heads up that plane will always have issues.

I'm optimistic on the E2, C-series, MRJ, MC-21 and a little on the SSJ (it is now out of date with E2 EIS). I'm pessimistic on the ARJ-21, C919 (not because of the engines, but the interface definition is poor, which Embraer went from poor on the E-190 to possibly best in the world). e.g.g, the Global 7000 will rule the business jet market.

Now to see Embraer take on the Hemisphere.... and Falcon 6x... : hyper:

Lightsaber
I cannot wait to get vaccinated to live again! Warning: I simulated that it takes 50%+ vaccinated to protect the vaccinated and 75%+ vaccinated to protect the vac-hesitant.
 
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EMBSPBR
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Fri May 11, 2018 4:12 pm

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... bo-448519/

"Embraer bets on fuel prices, replacement cycle to boost E2 sales"

"Embraer expects the recent increases in the price of oil to refocus airlines’ interest in new technology aircraft, such as its E2 series of small jets."

Excerpts:

"Speaking to FlightGlobal, the airframer’s chief commercial officer Arjan Meijer says that rises in oil prices this year are undoing some of the benefits from the lower acquisition costs that carriers, particularly those in the United States and Europe, have had from adding more mid-life aircraft.

“I think we have seen a period where replacing old aircraft with old aircraft didn’t really hurt because you still had the fuel price benefit. Now I think we are starting to see, from a fuel burn perspective, a focus on new technology,” he adds.

The E2 in particular is expected to benefit from that renewed focus on fuel efficiency. The re-winged, Pratt & Whitney geared turbofan-powered jet entered service in April with launch operator Wideroe.

Between five and 10 190E2s are planned for delivery this year. While Meijer would not be drawn into discussing which other carriers will take those jets, Flight Fleets Analyzer suggests that Air Astana and GX Airlines are the scheduled recipients."
 
iceberg210
Posts: 352
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 12:11 pm

Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Fri May 11, 2018 6:09 pm

lightsaber wrote:

I'm optimistic on the E2, C-series, MRJ, MC-21 and a little on the SSJ (it is now out of date with E2 EIS). I'm pessimistic on the ARJ-21, C919 (not because of the engines, but the interface definition is poor, which Embraer went from poor on the E-190 to possibly best in the world). e.g.g, the Global 7000 will rule the business jet market.

Now to see Embraer take on the Hemisphere.... and Falcon 6x... : hyper:

Lightsaber

I too (albeit with far less information to base it on) am optimistic for the E2 and C Series (I think the MRJ has a bigger hill to climb, and the SSJ and MC21 have greater geopolitical risk although they probably have bright future especially the MC21). However I do feel like the future for both the E2 and CS is still up in the air to some extent for different reasons, let's focus on this thread though on the E2

There's 280 orders on Embraer's books for the E2, however 100 are for the 175E2 which may never see the light of day, and the 50 Air Costa orders don't mean anything from an airline that hasn't been around for over a year. So now you've really only got 130 orders for the type, only 35 of which are from an airline at all (perhaps 45 if the undisclosed ones are from an airline) the rest are from leasing companies. While I'm not in airline leasing I would assume this balance isn't one that leasing companies feel too great about. If you don't have an anchor or a couple anchor customers throughout the world it makes it harder I would assume to justify having the frame in your portfolio when besides for a few customers the pool of places to lease your plane just isn't very deep. I'd love to hear what sort of balance and or what lessors look for in a frame, but my hunch is that Aircastle, Aercap and ICBC would feel a lot better about their 85 frames if there were more than 45 frames on order from actual airlines.

I think Embraer will pull it off, and I think this is the year where the sales will follow the insanely well executed (on time on budget who even does that any more? :P ) but I don't think we can get around the fact that this year maybe make or break for the frame. By the end of the year if they don't really add to the backlog they are looking at less than two years of backlog for both the E1's and E2's combined, and that's not a great place to be, especially when you're trying to transition and the only plane you've been selling lately in droves is one whose' replacement you might not even build. Again I think this will be an exciting year for Embraer full of orders and exciting new opportunities, but part of that is it has to be, otherwise things could get rough quickly.
Erik Berg
“Little by little, we advance with each turn. That's how a drill works!”
 
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LockheedBBD
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Fri May 11, 2018 6:28 pm

iceberg210 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:

I'm optimistic on the E2, C-series, MRJ, MC-21 and a little on the SSJ (it is now out of date with E2 EIS). I'm pessimistic on the ARJ-21, C919 (not because of the engines, but the interface definition is poor, which Embraer went from poor on the E-190 to possibly best in the world). e.g.g, the Global 7000 will rule the business jet market.

Now to see Embraer take on the Hemisphere.... and Falcon 6x... : hyper:

Lightsaber



By the end of the year if they don't really add to the backlog they are looking at less than two years of backlog for both the E1's and E2's combined, and that's not a great place to be, especially when you're trying to transition and the only plane you've been selling lately in droves is one whose' replacement you might not even build. Again I think this will be an exciting year for Embraer full of orders and exciting new opportunities, but part of that is it has to be, otherwise things could get rough quickly.


I think you're overstating the trouble Embraer could face. The financial powerhouse that is Boeing can't get their hands on Embraer soon enough. Embraer has nothing to worry about even if they had trouble selling more frames. However, I think that the performance of the E2 will speak for itself and orders will come eventually.
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