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lightsaber
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:16 pm

zkojq wrote:
I absolutely understand where you are coming from, but IMO because the E190 is such a liquid asset, which such a wide variety of operators, the lessors really don't have too much to worry about. The wide base of E1 operators will make it much easier for lessors to place new E2 aircraft.

Actually... No. We have a situation similar to the A330NEO where leasing companies are competing with the airframer. Until enough operators select to lease the type (and dry up already purchased slots), we have a case of too many salespeople calling on the same customers.

However, once enough new orders are placed (I happen to agree about 130+45 unknown? are the sales basis), that situation will end abruptly.

As a Pratt fan I fear that airlines are waiting until Pratt truly proves reliable operation. Sadly, they have missed far to many "and this will fix it" promises. :cry:
But many E1 operators were not happy with reliability/durability and the number of backup aircraft they had to keep available. The Gold standard is a far lower fraction of the fleet as backup.


EMBSPBR wrote:

"From my perspective the introduction of the Embraer 190-E2 seems like a success. It seems that Widerøe have taken a conservative approach to utilizing the new aircraft. With an average of around 5-6 hrs of production every day spread across 2-3 round trips, the risks of delays and cancellations is minimized. Minor delays are easily caught up because of the generous timetable for these new aircraft. Widerøe is also working very closely with Embraer and Pratt & Whitney to ensure that everything runs smoothly."

The introduction has been an outstanding success. Now the issue is production where the same weak link (Pratt) must step up their game.

Okcflyer wrote:
The reality is that in this size segment, reliability and maintenance costs matter more than 1-3% of fuel burn relative to peers. If the E2 can meet or exceed Neo and MAX (gold standard) performance for overall reliability and maintenance costs (frame, systems, engines) then I fully expect additional orders.

Maturity in this market range is massively important ... it seems EMB understood this and invested time/resources accordingly to achieve.

Cheers to future campaign wins!

This I can agree with all points.
Fuel in this segment is < 30% of total costs. However, the Pratt are much more than a 3% drop. :spin:
But it will be exceeding performance standards (something the E-190/195-E1s had an issue with when they were competitive).

The E2-175 is a non-starter without US scope clause, so Embraer needs to sell E2-190s/195s (I think the later will be 70% of E2s).
So far the E2s are looking good for reliability.

Does anyone have a link to the LOV for cycles and hours planned? What is the corrosion interval? The fact these aren't easy to find concerns me. Seriously, when I Bing or Google, I just find my own speculative posts here on a.net!

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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:33 am

In recent months some things seem to have become clear:
- The 190E2 has entered service without turbulence and should become a mature product in a maximum of 1 year;
- The production rate in this first year seems to stabilize at 1/month. By the similarity with the E1 family, it is possible to bet that the rate of production in 2 years will easily reach 5-6 units/month, without any relevant additional investment;
- It is clear from the observation of the Payload x Range charts (below) that the 190E2 is a much more capable aircraft than the 190E1. This opens up an interesting number of possibilities like an stretch out version of the 195E2 (replacement for the MD80), a high-range executive version (6500 nm) or even a 195E2 version with 190E2 wings optimized for short distances (Europe);
- Its BBD competitor has not yet exceeded the 2 aircraft/month pace, two years after the first deliveries, even with all the positive expectation generated by Airbus entering the business;
- Signs are clear that the market for 100-150 passenger aircraft is warming up after a certain stagnation. The arrival of 2 competitors bringing high efficiency and modernity will probably encourage those airlines that until now only observed from a distance;
- Judging by Embraer's repeated statements the 175E2 will be released, with or without a change of labour clauses in the USA. Perhaps the efficiency that the new technology is too great to be ignored and development costs can be relatively modest after the 190/195E2 projects.


https://www.flyembraer.com/irj/go/km/do ... PM_190.pdf
https://www.flyembraer.com/irj/go/km/do ... JetsE2.PDF
 
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:16 pm

Third E190-E2, LN-WEC on its way to Wideroe´s home:

Image
 
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:48 pm

I'm starting to get annoyed with this Embraer habit in proposing super ambitious goals and executing them flawlessly. It would be so much more interesting if the E2 project had been released, canceled and released again years later to finally arrive late and with budget out of hand! Holywood's films get more interesting with brushstrokes of drama and comedy. Similarly, after literally breaking the company even though it received $ 2.5 billion in subsidies (50% more than the all 175/190 / 195E2 family project) BBD sells the CS100 / 300 project to Airbus for $ 1. It is really a great communication triumph to present what has happened as a victory.

Also the fanclub of BBD has had a considerable success of communication trying to present the overcoming of the goals of performance of 190E2 like failures:
- Anticipation of the program -> Poor planning;
- Incredible first flights performance (FBY mode, speed, altitude) -> Embraer exhibitionism, proof of lack of commitment to safety;
- Exceeding consumption targets, costs, noise, maintenance deadlines and RANGE -> Poor project management, proof of collusion with Boeing to the detriment of BBD within US ITC

It is time to evaluate the 190 / 195E2 projects by what it really means, a very capable and competitive rival.
 
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:28 pm

Nean1 wrote:
I'm starting to get annoyed with this Embraer habit in proposing super ambitious goals and executing them flawlessly. It would be so much more interesting if the E2 project had been released, canceled and released again years later to finally arrive late and with budget out of hand! Holywood's films get more interesting with brushstrokes of drama and comedy. Similarly, after literally breaking the company even though it received $ 2.5 billion in subsidies (50% more than the all 175/190 / 195E2 family project) BBD sells the CS100 / 300 project to Airbus for $ 1. It is really a great communication triumph to present what has happened as a victory.

Also the fanclub of BBD has had a considerable success of communication trying to present the overcoming of the goals of performance of 190E2 like failures:
- Anticipation of the program -> Poor planning;
- Incredible first flights performance (FBY mode, speed, altitude) -> Embraer exhibitionism, proof of lack of commitment to safety;
- Exceeding consumption targets, costs, noise, maintenance deadlines and RANGE -> Poor project management, proof of collusion with Boeing to the detriment of BBD within US ITC

It is time to evaluate the 190 / 195E2 projects by what it really means, a very capable and competitive rival.


What do you put the lack of E2 sales down to then ?
 
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:00 am

Samrnpage wrote:
Nean1 wrote:
I'm starting to get annoyed with this Embraer habit in proposing super ambitious goals and executing them flawlessly. It would be so much more interesting if the E2 project had been released, canceled and released again years later to finally arrive late and with budget out of hand! Holywood's films get more interesting with brushstrokes of drama and comedy. Similarly, after literally breaking the company even though it received $ 2.5 billion in subsidies (50% more than the all 175/190 / 195E2 family project) BBD sells the CS100 / 300 project to Airbus for $ 1. It is really a great communication triumph to present what has happened as a victory.

Also the fanclub of BBD has had a considerable success of communication trying to present the overcoming of the goals of performance of 190E2 like failures:
- Anticipation of the program -> Poor planning;
- Incredible first flights performance (FBY mode, speed, altitude) -> Embraer exhibitionism, proof of lack of commitment to safety;
- Exceeding consumption targets, costs, noise, maintenance deadlines and RANGE -> Poor project management, proof of collusion with Boeing to the detriment of BBD within US ITC

It is time to evaluate the 190 / 195E2 projects by what it really means, a very capable and competitive rival.


What do you put the lack of E2 sales down to then ?


I think some things are obvious:
- Hypercompetition in the segment causes paralysis in the purchase process, it is still unclear what the surviving products will be;
- Profitability in the air transport segment has historically been very low, so it is natural that there is a conservative stance;
- Due to the prestige of the industrial segment there is an enormous governmental influence with the power to distort the real competitiveness of the offerers with several mechanisms;
- Perceiving this adverse scenario, Embraer invested relatively less in the production structure, reusing the maximum of the productive structure of the E1 family. The obvious conclusion will be to avoid excessive discounts and maintain a modest production rate (~ 8 aircraft / month) in the early years.
 
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:09 am

Nean1 wrote:
In recent months some things seem to have become clear:
- The 190E2 has entered service without turbulence and should become a mature product in a maximum of 1 year;
- The production rate in this first year seems to stabilize at 1/month. By the similarity with the E1 family, it is possible to bet that the rate of production in 2 years will easily reach 5-6 units/month, without any relevant additional investment;
- It is clear from the observation of the Payload x Range charts (below) that the 190E2 is a much more capable aircraft than the 190E1. This opens up an interesting number of possibilities like an stretch out version of the 195E2 (replacement for the MD80), a high-range executive version (6500 nm) or even a 195E2 version with 190E2 wings optimized for short distances (Europe);
- Its BBD competitor has not yet exceeded the 2 aircraft/month pace, two years after the first deliveries, even with all the positive expectation generated by Airbus entering the business;
- Signs are clear that the market for 100-150 passenger aircraft is warming up after a certain stagnation. The arrival of 2 competitors bringing high efficiency and modernity will probably encourage those airlines that until now only observed from a distance;
- Judging by Embraer's repeated statements the 175E2 will be released, with or without a change of labour clauses in the USA. Perhaps the efficiency that the new technology is too great to be ignored and development costs can be relatively modest after the 190/195E2 projects.


https://www.flyembraer.com/irj/go/km/do ... PM_190.pdf
https://www.flyembraer.com/irj/go/km/do ... JetsE2.PDF

1000nm more range. Thank you for posting both charts.

Farnborough is going to be supercritical, in particular with Bombardier announcing 96 orders in June (only 30 have been firmed).

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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:28 am

lightsaber wrote:
Nean1 wrote:
In recent months some things seem to have become clear:
- The 190E2 has entered service without turbulence and should become a mature product in a maximum of 1 year;
- The production rate in this first year seems to stabilize at 1/month. By the similarity with the E1 family, it is possible to bet that the rate of production in 2 years will easily reach 5-6 units/month, without any relevant additional investment;
- It is clear from the observation of the Payload x Range charts (below) that the 190E2 is a much more capable aircraft than the 190E1. This opens up an interesting number of possibilities like an stretch out version of the 195E2 (replacement for the MD80), a high-range executive version (6500 nm) or even a 195E2 version with 190E2 wings optimized for short distances (Europe);
- Its BBD competitor has not yet exceeded the 2 aircraft/month pace, two years after the first deliveries, even with all the positive expectation generated by Airbus entering the business;
- Signs are clear that the market for 100-150 passenger aircraft is warming up after a certain stagnation. The arrival of 2 competitors bringing high efficiency and modernity will probably encourage those airlines that until now only observed from a distance;
- Judging by Embraer's repeated statements the 175E2 will be released, with or without a change of labour clauses in the USA. Perhaps the efficiency that the new technology is too great to be ignored and development costs can be relatively modest after the 190/195E2 projects.


https://www.flyembraer.com/irj/go/km/do ... PM_190.pdf
https://www.flyembraer.com/irj/go/km/do ... JetsE2.PDF

1000nm more range. Thank you for posting both charts.

Farnborough is going to be supercritical, in particular with Bombardier announcing 96 orders in June (only 30 have been firmed).

Lightsaber


I believe that the E2 and CS aircraft will receive interesting orders now that some doubts are dissipating. Finally the GTF engines seem to confirm the high expectations. Airbus will give full support to the 100/300 lines (although most analysts believe the CS500 will not be released). Both the E2 and the CS will be delivering a level of convenience and comfort to passengers beyond that offered by the A32x and B737, something that will be emphasized after years when the service standard has declined continuously.
 
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:38 pm

Ethiopian might decide between the C-series and E2 at Farnborough. I wonder which size of planes?
https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1JF29T

IMHO, they could order both sizes of either plane.

I really hope for 50+ orders for the E2. A 100+ is even better. As a Pratt fan, I want both to thrive. :)

Since the C-series is certain to break a hundred orders in 2018 thanks to a spectacular June... Time to hope for E2 love. The E2 really needs economy of scale. Automation demands higher rates of production to pay for the tooling and software development.

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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:36 pm

Nean1 wrote:
Samrnpage wrote:
Nean1 wrote:
I'm starting to get annoyed with this Embraer habit in proposing super ambitious goals and executing them flawlessly. It would be so much more interesting if the E2 project had been released, canceled and released again years later to finally arrive late and with budget out of hand! Holywood's films get more interesting with brushstrokes of drama and comedy. Similarly, after literally breaking the company even though it received $ 2.5 billion in subsidies (50% more than the all 175/190 / 195E2 family project) BBD sells the CS100 / 300 project to Airbus for $ 1. It is really a great communication triumph to present what has happened as a victory.

Also the fanclub of BBD has had a considerable success of communication trying to present the overcoming of the goals of performance of 190E2 like failures:
- Anticipation of the program -> Poor planning;
- Incredible first flights performance (FBY mode, speed, altitude) -> Embraer exhibitionism, proof of lack of commitment to safety;
- Exceeding consumption targets, costs, noise, maintenance deadlines and RANGE -> Poor project management, proof of collusion with Boeing to the detriment of BBD within US ITC

It is time to evaluate the 190 / 195E2 projects by what it really means, a very capable and competitive rival.


What do you put the lack of E2 sales down to then ?


I think some things are obvious:
- Hypercompetition in the segment causes paralysis in the purchase process, it is still unclear what the surviving products will be;
- Profitability in the air transport segment has historically been very low, so it is natural that there is a conservative stance;
- Due to the prestige of the industrial segment there is an enormous governmental influence with the power to distort the real competitiveness of the offerers with several mechanisms;
- Perceiving this adverse scenario, Embraer invested relatively less in the production structure, reusing the maximum of the productive structure of the E1 family. The obvious conclusion will be to avoid excessive discounts and maintain a modest production rate (~ 8 aircraft / month) in the early years.


Personally I think airlines are more keen on the Cseries under Airbus regardless of how good the E2 is. Embrear vs Airbus will be an Airbus victory in nearly every case.

Out of curiosity who do you think will order the E2 from current operators as a mainline aircraft?
 
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:56 pm

Samrnpage wrote:
Personally I think airlines are more keen on the Cseries under Airbus regardless of how good the E2 is. Embrear vs Airbus will be an Airbus victory in nearly every case.


And what do you think about E2 under Boeing umbrela ???
 
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:53 pm

EMBSPBR wrote:
Samrnpage wrote:
Personally I think airlines are more keen on the Cseries under Airbus regardless of how good the E2 is. Embrear vs Airbus will be an Airbus victory in nearly every case.


And what do you think about E2 under Boeing umbrela ???


At most, it’d put us back at square one, where the NEO outsells the MAX and the CSeries outsells the E2.
-Dave


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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:59 pm

EMBSPBR wrote:
Samrnpage wrote:
Personally I think airlines are more keen on the Cseries under Airbus regardless of how good the E2 is. Embrear vs Airbus will be an Airbus victory in nearly every case.


And what do you think about E2 under Boeing umbrela ???

In my opinion two advantages of Embraer with Boeing:
1. Early/Easier access to customers and financing.
2. Far more efficient and effective parts distribution.

Both frames must eventually stand on their own merit.

Boeing cannot sell 748Is
Airbus is having issues with the A380 and A330NEO.

So this isn't magic. But with a good product (and both are good), it really helps move product.

When will Embraer team with Boeing? Bombardier wasted most of their first mover advantage. Now with production normalizing, the C-series will work on economy of scale. Embraer must also.

Embraer is unfortunately starting from a poor backlog. Until one model breaks 300+ sales and 20+ opperators, the secondary market will be poor.

The two planes are in competition at JetBlue, Spirit, Kenya, and Ethiopian. I have no idea how many (if any) will announce at Farnborough.

For Boeing/Embraer to effect these orders, something needs to be in place within weeks. I suspect more time is required to solidify the deal due to Brazilian government input.

That puts Bombardier at an advantage.

As I've posted before, the airshows present an opportunity for buyers and sellers to converge due to a need to negotiate with so many parties for an aircraft: airframes, financers, seats, gallies, lavatories, tires, maintenance (by the hour or with major MROs).

The partnerships change everything with the big leasing companies. They are already setup in Farnborough negotiating. Bombardier/Airbus will be joint starting July 1st. Embraer/Boeing?

Bombardier sold 96 inthe last month. Embraer?


I think the E2-190 is doing exceptionally well. But for some reason Embraer thought like Douglas to wait for the juiciest deals to find the market had shifted to lower price points supported by economy of scale.

Narrobodies are at that juncture. Last airframe to a thousand sales is out.

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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:23 am

lightsaber wrote:
Bombardier sold 96 inthe last month. Embraer?
Lightsaber


How long both are on the road ???
What could happened to the CSeries without Airbus agreement ???
 
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:39 am

EMBSPBR wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Bombardier sold 96 inthe last month. Embraer?
Lightsaber


How long both are on the road ???
What could happened to the CSeries without Airbus agreement ???

I assume both sales teams have been traveling equally. Or does on the road mean something else in your region? Or perhaps I date myself. Colloquial phrases do not have consistent definitions. Deals are closing. Coffee is for closers. ;)

The C-series deal with Airbus closes in just over a week, it is past time to speculate what will happen without it.

The major sales event of the year is in July. Either the deal is ready within weeks to effect sales at Farnborough or it isn't. Sales momentum is wonderful. There are four know E2 vs. C-series deals that could close at Farnborough. We will learn in but a few weeks the value of a partnership vs. going alone.

Neither did well on their own so far.

Bombardier has enough sales already in 2018 to try again next year in Paris and be listened to. Embraer has too little backlog for the E2. It raises concerns about PIPs (fixes and inprovements) happening.

If Embraer dominates Farnborough and takes the bulk of the orders, Bombardier will make blustery PR about Embraer tactics and still aligning the joint sales team and people will believe them due to good sales the last month. Airlines would bid the two against each other with neither having an advantage.

If Bombardier dominates orders at Farnborough, Embraer has a PR disaster as every article will be discussing the Airbus tie up success and momentum of the program. Airlines will bid the two against each other, but leasing financing would favor Bombardier to a value of at least $1 million per Airframe.

So unfortunately for Embraer, they need a few orders to kickstart a resale market.

The E2 has more of a ready market with all the E1 opperators. But the the question is why hasn't that created a backlog? First frame to a thousand sales has no further explaining to do.

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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:28 am

lightsaber wrote:
EMBSPBR wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Bombardier sold 96 inthe last month. Embraer?
Lightsaber

How long both are on the road ???
What could happened to the CSeries without Airbus agreement ???

I assume both sales teams have been traveling equally. Or does on the road mean something else in your region? Or perhaps I date myself. Colloquial phrases do not have consistent definitions. Deals are closing. Coffee is for closers. ;)
Lightsaber


Lightsaber, I really appreciate your posts since I perceive you come from industry.

You cited 96 sales for the CSeries, and I understand the sales are those for the 30 CS300 to airBaltic with purchase rights for another 30.
And the other 6 are for Red Wings will come from a former Ilyushin Finance Co order.
I don´t know your numbers. "Moxy" is still "a Neeleman raising funds", not a contract sale yet (until this moment remembers me our Air Costa experience).

Before that:
12 + 12 options to EgyptAir on December 29, 2017;
2 to Air Tanzania December 2, 2016.

And yes, we are thirst for sales.
But I know you know coloquially what be on a road for long time what means ...
And we almost just started it ...
 
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:44 am

Could United be a potential customer or has their 100-seater need been shelved for now?
-Dave


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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:55 pm

EMBSPBR wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
EMBSPBR wrote:
How long both are on the road ???
What could happened to the CSeries without Airbus agreement ???

I assume both sales teams have been traveling equally. Or does on the road mean something else in your region? Or perhaps I date myself. Colloquial phrases do not have consistent definitions. Deals are closing. Coffee is for closers. ;)
Lightsaber


Lightsaber, I really appreciate your posts since I perceive you come from industry.

You cited 96 sales for the CSeries, and I understand the sales are those for the 30 CS300 to airBaltic with purchase rights for another 30.
And the other 6 are for Red Wings will come from a former Ilyushin Finance Co order.
I don´t know your numbers. "Moxy" is still "a Neeleman raising funds", not a contract sale yet (until this moment remembers me our Air Costa experience).

Before that:
12 + 12 options to EgyptAir on December 29, 2017;
2 to Air Tanzania December 2, 2016.

And yes, we are thirst for sales.
But I know you know coloquially what be on a road for long time what means ...
And we almost just started it ...

Moxie made noise for 60. I do not know if a contract sale or not. But if Moxy doesn't close, Neeleman's venture is off. I have heard the repeated rumor 40 are slots transferred from Frontier.

Both have been selling for years, so honestly I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. Neither has sold great, but Bombardier has momentum.

There is a fifth possible contest to be closed at Farnborough: UA (as others noted):
https://www.forbes.com/sites/martinrive ... c70bee196e

There are probably a few more small orders for the leasing companies to work on. The selling season has begun.

Some airlines, such as JetBlue, want a seasoned plane (aircraft in service debugged by others. So getting a service history is critical.

But also sales.

Farnborough this year is key for both airframes.

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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:52 pm

Solomon Air confirms taking E2-190s. I assume leased...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/martinrive ... -plan/amp/

Lightsaber

Late Edit:. They will start service with the 1st E2-190 in 4Q 2019. In other words, a debugged E2-190 (rule of thumb is that it takes 18 months to fix the initial issues).
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:05 pm

I've heard somewhere that price competition between Embraer vs Airbus/BBD has been brutal. And Embraer seems to be refusing to sell below price. I really hope Embraer to secure a firm backlog for E2, but I am not too optimistic given this competitive scenario. Seems like airlines are not caring too much for technical benefits, they are looking only for the lowest price.
 
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:41 pm

GmvAfcs wrote:
I've heard somewhere that price competition between Embraer vs Airbus/BBD has been brutal. And Embraer seems to be refusing to sell below price. I really hope Embraer to secure a firm backlog for E2, but I am not too optimistic given this competitive scenario. Seems like airlines are not caring too much for technical benefits, they are looking only for the lowest price.


This is the price that the industry will pay for the heavy subsidies offered to BBD, Comac and Irkut projects. Boeing and Airbus will use current profits to prevent new competitors. It will be a carnage.

The medium-term objective is just survival.
 
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:51 pm

Nean1 wrote:
GmvAfcs wrote:
I've heard somewhere that price competition between Embraer vs Airbus/BBD has been brutal. And Embraer seems to be refusing to sell below price. I really hope Embraer to secure a firm backlog for E2, but I am not too optimistic given this competitive scenario. Seems like airlines are not caring too much for technical benefits, they are looking only for the lowest price.


This is the price that the industry will pay for the heavy subsidies offered to BBD, Comac and Irkut projects. Boeing and Airbus will use current profits to prevent new competitors. It will be a carnage.

The medium-term objective is just survival.

The mid-term goal is survival. The C919 does close many opportunities for the E2 and C-series.

Embraer might not sell below some price, but this is a competitive market. Once upon a time Douglas took that approach and lost economy of scale. I hope the E2 sells.

A used glut of A319s isn't helping. It isn't just A319s... They are just the canary in the coal mine.

Lightsaber
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:42 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Nean1 wrote:
GmvAfcs wrote:
I've heard somewhere that price competition between Embraer vs Airbus/BBD has been brutal. And Embraer seems to be refusing to sell below price. I really hope Embraer to secure a firm backlog for E2, but I am not too optimistic given this competitive scenario. Seems like airlines are not caring too much for technical benefits, they are looking only for the lowest price.


This is the price that the industry will pay for the heavy subsidies offered to BBD, Comac and Irkut projects. Boeing and Airbus will use current profits to prevent new competitors. It will be a carnage.

The medium-term objective is just survival.

The mid-term goal is survival. The C919 does close many opportunities for the E2 and C-series.

Embraer might not sell below some price, but this is a competitive market. Once upon a time Douglas took that approach and lost economy of scale. I hope the E2 sells.

A used glut of A319s isn't helping. It isn't just A319s... They are just the canary in the coal mine.

Lightsaber


It seems clear that in terms of performance, operational costs and comfort the E2 jets will be very competitive.

It is also somewhat ironic that even employing conventional materials and investing in the project a fraction of the competitors Embraer is having so much difficulty matching its competitors in terms of price. There is something at stake that goes completely beyond the business competitiveness domain.
 
Amiga500
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:14 pm

Nean1 wrote:
There is something at stake that goes completely beyond the business competitiveness domain.


Of course.

Indeed, its quite a sad state of affairs.

Embraer are by a distance the best run airframer. Unfortunately, due to financial maneouvres elsewhere, they are facing a **possible** slippery slope to irrelevance. Hopefully they survive and thrive.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:31 pm

Nean1 wrote:
It seems clear that in terms of performance, operational costs and comfort the A330neo will be very competitive.

It is also somewhat ironic that even employing conventional materials and investing in the project a fraction of the competitors Airbus is having so much difficulty matching its competitors in terms of price. There is something at stake that goes completely beyond the business competitiveness domain.


Just noting that it's similar to what seems to be going on with the A330neo business case at Airbus. Perhaps Farnborough will turn the fortunes of both frames around.
-Dave


”Yet somewhere in Iceland a great anger stirred in the soul of a troubled individual...” - Revelation
 
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:55 pm

The WTO has delayed the panel’s final report to the second half of 2019, which is over a year delay from what is generally supposed to last 6 months. I’m sure BBD is happy about it.


PlanesNTrains wrote:
Nean1 wrote:
It seems clear that in terms of performance, operational costs and comfort the A330neo will be very competitive.

It is also somewhat ironic that even employing conventional materials and investing in the project a fraction of the competitors Airbus is having so much difficulty matching its competitors in terms of price. There is something at stake that goes completely beyond the business competitiveness domain.


Just noting that it's similar to what seems to be going on with the A330neo business case at Airbus. Perhaps Farnborough will turn the fortunes of both frames around.


The E2 is much more than just a NEO.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
Nean1
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:18 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
Nean1 wrote:
It seems clear that in terms of performance, operational costs and comfort the A330neo will be very competitive.

It is also somewhat ironic that even employing conventional materials and investing in the project a fraction of the competitors Airbus is having so much difficulty matching its competitors in terms of price. There is something at stake that goes completely beyond the business competitiveness domain.


Just noting that it's similar to what seems to be going on with the A330neo business case at Airbus. Perhaps Farnborough will turn the fortunes of both frames around.


PlanesNTrains,

I understand where you want to get but let me tell you that editing another's review has gone a little longer than simply lack of courtesy.

As for the comparison with the A330Neo I do not consider it adequate:
- The most relevant and fierce competitors (B737 / A320) are produced with conventional materials;
- In this segment the ticket is still very high even for the national governments so that the competition has not yet been so affected by the subsidies.
 
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:19 pm

PPVRA wrote:
The WTO has delayed the panel’s final report to the second half of 2019, which is over a year delay from what is generally supposed to last 6 months. I’m sure BBD is happy about it.


PlanesNTrains wrote:
Nean1 wrote:
It seems clear that in terms of performance, operational costs and comfort the A330neo will be very competitive.

It is also somewhat ironic that even employing conventional materials and investing in the project a fraction of the competitors Airbus is having so much difficulty matching its competitors in terms of price. There is something at stake that goes completely beyond the business competitiveness domain.


Just noting that it's similar to what seems to be going on with the A330neo business case at Airbus. Perhaps Farnborough will turn the fortunes of both frames around.


The E2 is much more than just a NEO.


Yes, I know. What did I say that you disagree with? That the performance, operational costs, and comfort of the A330neo will be very competitive? That even employing conventional materials and investing in the project a fraction of the competitor that Airbus is having so much difficulty matching competitors in terms of price?

Obviously they are two different aircraft and programs. I'm just noting how similar they are going into this air show in regards to the market. Anyhoo....
-Dave


”Yet somewhere in Iceland a great anger stirred in the soul of a troubled individual...” - Revelation
 
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:21 pm

Nean1 wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
Nean1 wrote:
It seems clear that in terms of performance, operational costs and comfort the A330neo will be very competitive.

It is also somewhat ironic that even employing conventional materials and investing in the project a fraction of the competitors Airbus is having so much difficulty matching its competitors in terms of price. There is something at stake that goes completely beyond the business competitiveness domain.


Just noting that it's similar to what seems to be going on with the A330neo business case at Airbus. Perhaps Farnborough will turn the fortunes of both frames around.


PlanesNTrains,

I understand where you want to get but let me tell you that editing another's review has gone a little longer than simply lack of courtesy.

As for the comparison with the A330Neo I do not consider it adequate:
- The most relevant and fierce competitors (B737 / A320) are produced with conventional materials;
- In this segment the ticket is still very high even for the national governments so that the competition has not yet been so affected by the subsidies.


There was no ill-intent with editing someone else's post to draw a comparison. Please, just stop. It was a very basic comment - no need to over-think it.
-Dave


”Yet somewhere in Iceland a great anger stirred in the soul of a troubled individual...” - Revelation
 
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:23 pm

Amiga500 wrote:
Nean1 wrote:
There is something at stake that goes completely beyond the business competitiveness domain.


Of course.

Indeed, its quite a sad state of affairs.

Embraer are by a distance the best run airframer. Unfortunately, due to financial maneouvres elsewhere, they are facing a **possible** slippery slope to irrelevance. Hopefully they survive and thrive.


Or ...

Source: http://atwonline.com/manufacturers/embr ... 0beb512949

Embraer CEO: Canadian government CSeries support “not a fair game”

Excerpt:

"Embraer CEO Paulo Cesar Silva reiterated his complaints about Canadian government funding for the Bombardier CSeries at a company event, as both manufacturers head towards what could be a crucial Farnborough Air Show for that program and the Embraer E2. “A private manufacturer cannot compete with companies that are heavily subsidized,” Silva told journalists June 26 in Lisbon, “It is not a fair game.”
 
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:05 am

PPVRA wrote:
The E2 is much more than just a NEO.

Agreed. So was the 717 (when marketed as the MD95). When Douglas refused to underbid the A319... it cost them. Ironically, those very same A319s are not flooding the market creating issues for the E2.

Embraer needs to seed the market with a few early sales.

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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:16 am

lightsaber wrote:
Nean1 wrote:
GmvAfcs wrote:
I've heard somewhere that price competition between Embraer vs Airbus/BBD has been brutal. And Embraer seems to be refusing to sell below price. I really hope Embraer to secure a firm backlog for E2, but I am not too optimistic given this competitive scenario. Seems like airlines are not caring too much for technical benefits, they are looking only for the lowest price.


This is the price that the industry will pay for the heavy subsidies offered to BBD, Comac and Irkut projects. Boeing and Airbus will use current profits to prevent new competitors. It will be a carnage.

The medium-term objective is just survival.

The mid-term goal is survival. The C919 does close many opportunities for the E2 and C-series.

Embraer might not sell below some price, but this is a competitive market. Once upon a time Douglas took that approach and lost economy of scale. I hope the E2 sells.

A used glut of A319s isn't helping. It isn't just A319s... They are just the canary in the coal mine.

Lightsaber


To sell below price and gain economy o scale you need deep pockets, and latest Embraer financial results show a negative cash flow issue that will be addressed soon, according them. That’s why the 1 billion of government investment on the CSeries was completely unfair.

I believe that Embraer now needs Boeing more then ever to help reducing supplier prices on the same manner Airbus is doing with CSeries.
 
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:39 am

PPVRA wrote:
The WTO has delayed the panel’s final report to the second half of 2019, which is over a year delay from what is generally supposed to last 6 months. I’m sure BBD is happy about it.



You can thank Donald Trump for that:

May, 18, 2018
Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKCN1IJ1K9
"President Donald Trump has the World Trade Organization in a chokehold, and the United States has made clear what he wants: no more judicial rulings that interpret WTO rules to Washington’s disadvantage.

Trump has effectively engineered a crisis in the WTO’s system of settling global disputes by vetoing all appointments of judges to its appeals chamber.

True to the president’s style, his ambassador to the Geneva-fbased body, Dennis Shea, is unapologetic about shrinking the supreme court of world trade to a size where it will struggle to function."

 
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:42 am

Well before we get too worked up, let's see what happens in Farnborough. UA or B6 might just pull EMB out of it's drought.
-Dave


”Yet somewhere in Iceland a great anger stirred in the soul of a troubled individual...” - Revelation
 
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:42 am

Nean1 wrote:

Boeing and Airbus will use current profits to prevent new competitors. It will be a carnage.

The medium-term objective is just survival.



This problem will be fixed soon. In a few months, Embraer will become a part of Boeing.
 
Amiga500
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:00 am

EMBSPBR wrote:
Or ...

Source: http://atwonline.com/manufacturers/embr ... 0beb512949

Embraer CEO: Canadian government CSeries support “not a fair game”

Excerpt:

"Embraer CEO Paulo Cesar Silva reiterated his complaints about Canadian government funding for the Bombardier CSeries at a company event, as both manufacturers head towards what could be a crucial Farnborough Air Show for that program and the Embraer E2. “A private manufacturer cannot compete with companies that are heavily subsidized,” Silva told journalists June 26 in Lisbon, “It is not a fair game.”


Is that not what I just said?
 
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:25 am

GmvAfcs wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Nean1 wrote:

This is the price that the industry will pay for the heavy subsidies offered to BBD, Comac and Irkut projects. Boeing and Airbus will use current profits to prevent new competitors. It will be a carnage.

The medium-term objective is just survival.

The mid-term goal is survival. The C919 does close many opportunities for the E2 and C-series.

Embraer might not sell below some price, but this is a competitive market. Once upon a time Douglas took that approach and lost economy of scale. I hope the E2 sells.

A used glut of A319s isn't helping. It isn't just A319s... They are just the canary in the coal mine.

Lightsaber


To sell below price and gain economy o scale you need deep pockets, and latest Embraer financial results show a negative cash flow issue that will be addressed soon, according them. That’s why the 1 billion of government investment on the CSeries was completely unfair.

I believe that Embraer now needs Boeing more then ever to help reducing supplier prices on the same manner Airbus is doing with CSeries.

Both Bombardier and Embraer have received government funding, so I have trouble getting worked up about an 'investment.'

That said, Farnborough could bring Embraer out of their rut. I'm aware of five active sales campaigns at both vendors: United airlines, JetBlue, Spirit, Ethiopian, and Kenya. Both need more orders. Who will win what?

Lightsaber
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:53 am

LockheedBBD wrote:

This problem will be fixed soon. In a few months, Embraer will become a part of Boeing.

That will be one sales season too late. Farnborough is a major sales event for a reason. It is just too easy to negotiate with everyone (seats, galleyes, engine service vendors, carpet, overhead bins, lavatories, tires, wifi) at one place.

You will already have Udvar-Hazy and others established to start selling. Udvar-Hazy learned years ago it was a major advantage being first and only cost a month more rent on the set of suites/offices. For example, if the E2 is selling well, he'll be in line for the next tranche of production slots before anyone else. He will have also placed E-jets coming off lease prior to anyone else.

I don't disagree this will happen. Boeing couldn't save the 717, it was too late (despite conspiracy theories, they tried). While Bombardier had a very successful end of spring (AirBaltic, Moxie, and another order for six).

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/busi ... 48035.html
But Craig West, editor of trade publication Airliner World, said Bombardier Airbus is likely to have another big US deal up its sleeve for Farnborough.


Success has a momentum of its own. I wish the E2 to sell at Farnborough. They need to be more than something that discounts the price Bombardier sells at.

As I noted before, part of the issue is the low sale price of used A319s. There is a reason Allegiant is parking MD-80s so willingly... Heck, they're picking up more new A320CEOs cheap. (Rumor is they said no until the offer was too attractive to not say yes.) I'm amused they're having issues bringing in *used* A320s, but that is off topic: https://www.reviewjournal.com/business/ ... of-planes/
What is on topic is low prices of used A319s is keeping AA from seriously negotiating with Embraer/Bombardier. :(
Again, the A319 is only the canary in the coal mine. It is a good plane, just that PIPs have reduced the cost of flying the A320 (length) more than the A319. By PIPs I mean Sharklets and engine fuel burn reduction and maintenance extension PIPs. e.g., engines now stay on wing as long for the A320 as the A319 (within rounding error), so the maintenance cost per flight difference is really tiny. Fuel burn cost per flight has reduced (sharklets do more for heavier planes than light planes). Obviously, A319CEOs are being bought to fly lower utilization duty than these new jets.

And the issue is pilots probably won't be paid less to fly and E2 or c-series than the A319 in a few years... So seat counts matter.

Not to mention China is strong-arming/bribing their airlines to buy the C919. To say the least, I do not expect the awesome E2-190 EIS with the C919. (You won't see bragging about 100 first flights with no missed dispatch with that airframe.)

How is the E2 doing with Wideroe since early announcements? I haven't seen much PR in a month. Last I saw is they were looking into exercising options. (Buy 3 and get 12 options, that is a launch deal!)
https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-embra ... KKBN1HJ2YT
So has Wideroe used E2-190s only for expansion, or have they parked Q400s? (Yes, I'm aware of AirBaltic's Q400 retirement plans too, but that goes off topic.)

So Boeing won't matter at Farnborough and unfortunately, there are headwinds.

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Someone83
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:17 pm

lightsaber wrote:
So has Wideroe used E2-190s only for expansion, or have they parked Q400s?
Lightsaber


It is a mix between replacement and expansion. Both new routes and replacing Q400 on current, thus increase capacity and also use the Q400 freed up by the E2 on new routes.

However, during the first phase, Widerøe has more or less had at least one Q400 in back-up
 
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:30 pm

Third E190-E2 to Wideroe now in service: LN-WEC day one:

Image
 
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:32 pm

Someone83 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
So has Wideroe used E2-190s only for expansion, or have they parked Q400s?
Lightsaber


It is a mix between replacement and expansion. Both new routes and replacing Q400 on current, thus increase capacity and also use the Q400 freed up by the E2 on new routes.

However, during the first phase, Widerøe has more or less had at least one Q400 in back-up

Thank you. It is always wise policy to have the higher variable cost plane as backup.

Has the backup been required? We know the first hundred flights went well, but not anything more.

Winderoe has certainl done well with PR with the E2.

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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:02 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Both Bombardier and Embraer have received government funding.
Lightsaber


No, we didn´t.
The only two programs involving the government are the KC-390 transport and the FX Fighter.
Embraer works as a sub-contractor and resources are scarce.
See the program of the KC-390 transport: Embraer alone paid the default of payments due by the federal government and the program was delayed in a year due to this. Even today there is an agreed and unpaid installment.
Embraer developed the E2 program, estimated at US $ 1.7 billion with its own resources.


lightsaber wrote:
While Bombardier had a very successful end of spring (AirBaltic, Moxie, and another order for six).
Lightsaber


As I said before: the only true order is for airBaltic.
Moxy is still a "Neeleman's dream in raising funds" (as is now the order for Odissey Airlines).
And the other six are for Red Wings but it is not a new order: they come from GTLK State Transport Leasing Co. transfered from Ilyushin Finance Co. order.
By the way, the original order (December 4, 2013) for the Ilyushin Finance Co. was for 32 CS300, than they canceled 12 on August 5, 2016 and now transferred 6 to GLTK on March 31, 2018.
The total order now stands 14 for the CS300 .
 
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:12 pm

Another good numbers:

Source: http://aviationweek.com/commercial-avia ... 3d00073a29

Excerpt:

"Embraer has delivered the first three E190-E2s to Norway’s Wideroe.
The fleet is operating an average of 6.57 cycles per day at an average stage length of 1.28 hr.
The fleet has accumulated 413 flight hours and 332 cycles so far.
The aircraft have achieved a 97.74% schedule reliability, and 99.35% of all planned flights have been operated."
 
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:28 pm

EMBSPBR wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Both Bombardier and Embraer have received government funding.
Lightsaber


No, we didn´t.
The only two programs involving the government are the KC-390 transport and the FX Fighter.
Embraer works as a sub-contractor and resources are scarce.
See the program of the KC-390 transport: Embraer alone paid the default of payments due by the federal government and the program was delayed in a year due to this. Even today there is an agreed and unpaid installment.
Embraer developed the E2 program, estimated at US $ 1.7 billion with its own resources.


lightsaber wrote:
While Bombardier had a very successful end of spring (AirBaltic, Moxie, and another order for six).
Lightsaber


As I said before: the only true order is for airBaltic.
Moxy is still a "Neeleman's dream in raising funds" (as is now the order for Odissey Airlines).
And the other six are for Red Wings but it is not a new order: they come from GTLK State Transport Leasing Co. transfered from Ilyushin Finance Co. order.
By the way, the original order (December 4, 2013) for the Ilyushin Finance Co. was for 32 CS300, than they canceled 12 on August 5, 2016 and now transferred 6 to GLTK on March 31, 2018.
The total order now stands 14 for the CS300 .

We'll have to agree to disagree. While Moxie is a startup, Neeleman has an amazing track record. If it was an E2 order I would count it. The AirBaltic order is significant. If the third small order is a transfer... Ok. It is still a new operator.

What is important is Farnborough. There are at least five sales campaigns in process that are head to head competition. How many will close at Farnborough? How many for Embraer?

For myself, the non A&B orders at Farnborough will be exciting. Oh, I'll follow others. But because of the distorted narrowbody market (not by subsidies, but by the HUGE production rates of A and B compounded by the product durability), I believe this year could be a defining year.

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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:10 pm

lightsaber wrote:
EMBSPBR wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Both Bombardier and Embraer have received government funding.
Lightsaber


No, we didn´t.
The only two programs involving the government are the KC-390 transport and the FX Fighter.
Embraer works as a sub-contractor and resources are scarce.
See the program of the KC-390 transport: Embraer alone paid the default of payments due by the federal government and the program was delayed in a year due to this. Even today there is an agreed and unpaid installment.
Embraer developed the E2 program, estimated at US $ 1.7 billion with its own resources.


lightsaber wrote:
While Bombardier had a very successful end of spring (AirBaltic, Moxie, and another order for six).
Lightsaber


As I said before: the only true order is for airBaltic.
Moxy is still a "Neeleman's dream in raising funds" (as is now the order for Odissey Airlines).
And the other six are for Red Wings but it is not a new order: they come from GTLK State Transport Leasing Co. transfered from Ilyushin Finance Co. order.
By the way, the original order (December 4, 2013) for the Ilyushin Finance Co. was for 32 CS300, than they canceled 12 on August 5, 2016 and now transferred 6 to GLTK on March 31, 2018.
The total order now stands 14 for the CS300 .


We'll have to agree to disagree. While Moxie is a startup, Neeleman has an amazing track record.


From my understanding, and the wording used by the media, it sounds like Moxy would be taking Republic's existing order. I'm not sure how Moxy could secure 60 new slots without some announcement from Bombardier about a new order or LOI.
 
ExMilitaryEng
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:56 pm

FWIW, Republic's order has been removed from the production schedule quite a while ago - so there are no "production slots" to be transferred.

Only the price it negociated early in the program (whatever the discount was then) can be transferred - as Republic renewed it's CSeries commitment when it came out bankruptcy.
 
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:30 pm

ExMilitaryEng wrote:
FWIW, Republic's order has been removed from the production schedule quite a while ago - so there are no "production slots" to be transferred.

Only the price it negociated early in the program (whatever the discount was then) can be transferred - as Republic renewed it's CSeries commitment when it came out bankruptcy.


I spent a loooooong time waiting for them to monetize their early position with the program, but it never happened. I'm just trying to envision them being able to get anything out of it now unless the Airbus/BBD deal is bringing prices up. It'll be nice to have some closure with that order though.
-Dave


”Yet somewhere in Iceland a great anger stirred in the soul of a troubled individual...” - Revelation
 
Nean1
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:15 am

EMBSPBR wrote:
Another good numbers:

Source: http://aviationweek.com/commercial-avia ... 3d00073a29

Excerpt:

"Embraer has delivered the first three E190-E2s to Norway’s Wideroe.
The fleet is operating an average of 6.57 cycles per day at an average stage length of 1.28 hr.
The fleet has accumulated 413 flight hours and 332 cycles so far.
The aircraft have achieved a 97.74% schedule reliability, and 99.35% of all planned flights have been operated."


EMBSPBR,

Would you know how these numbers compare with the current 190/5E1 fleet or with the A320Neo / B737Max / CSeries figures?
 
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:31 am

Nean1 wrote:
EMBSPBR wrote:
Another good numbers:

Source: http://aviationweek.com/commercial-avia ... 3d00073a29

Excerpt:

"Embraer has delivered the first three E190-E2s to Norway’s Wideroe.
The fleet is operating an average of 6.57 cycles per day at an average stage length of 1.28 hr.
The fleet has accumulated 413 flight hours and 332 cycles so far.
The aircraft have achieved a 97.74% schedule reliability, and 99.35% of all planned flights have been operated."


EMBSPBR,

Would you know how these numbers compare with the current 190/5E1 fleet or with the A320Neo / B737Max / CSeries figures?


170/175-E1: 99.89%
190/195-E1: 99.65%
 
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Re: Embraer E2 Flight Testing And Production Thread - 2018

Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:36 am

EMBSPBR wrote:
Nean1 wrote:
EMBSPBR wrote:
Another good numbers:

Source: http://aviationweek.com/commercial-avia ... 3d00073a29

Excerpt:

"Embraer has delivered the first three E190-E2s to Norway’s Wideroe.
The fleet is operating an average of 6.57 cycles per day at an average stage length of 1.28 hr.
The fleet has accumulated 413 flight hours and 332 cycles so far.
The aircraft have achieved a 97.74% schedule reliability, and 99.35% of all planned flights have been operated."


EMBSPBR,

Would you know how these numbers compare with the current 190/5E1 fleet or with the A320Neo / B737Max / CSeries figures?


170/175-E1: 99.89%
190/195-E1: 99.65%

Outstanding performance by the E2-190. I'm impressed and I'm a cynical old engineer.
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