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Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:44 am
by KarelXWB
In addition to the 77L retirement, the brand new A330F fleet will be phased out as well.

As part of its restructuring program @EtihadAirways has decided to phase out its 5 #B777-200LR's and 5 #A330-200F's. #Etihad has parked the #Airbus planes since 1 January and the #Boeing flights will end in March.


https://twitter.com/scramble_nl/status/ ... 7687324672

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:55 am
by StTim
So much for the bounce back in the freight market that has been talked about.

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:00 am
by Noshow
So 777LR and A330F. So they end their freighter business? Strange.
Looks more like they remodel their company business big time.

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:00 am
by spacecookie
the freighter market is quite small for airbus not mucho of the a330F around

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:12 am
by worldranger
Strong rumors in ME that they are negotiating sending their 77Fs to EK along with pilots.

Freight booming but you need the critical mass of the size of EKs network and associated belly hold to achieve economies of scale.

EY are just too niche now - both pax and freight. Gulf Air 2 in the making.

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:41 am
by terrificturk
worldranger wrote:
EY are just too niche now - both pax and freight. Gulf Air 2 in the making.


Wasn't James Hogan at GF before.... :scratchchin:

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:41 am
by runway23
Weren't there rumours also that the A330 passenger fleet is on the way out too ?

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:03 pm
by frigatebird
runway23 wrote:
Weren't there rumours also that the A330 passenger fleet is on the way out too ?

Apparently leases will expire on the A330 passenger fleet. Lots of 787s inbound for EY, which should replace these.

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:09 pm
by dtw2hyd
worldranger wrote:
Strong rumors in ME that they are negotiating sending their 77Fs to EK along with pilots.

Freight booming but you need the critical mass of the size of EKs network and associated belly hold to achieve economies of scale.

EY are just too niche now - both pax and freight. Gulf Air 2 in the making.


Interesting!!! Didn't EK move 747Fs to Atlas or someone else?

EY frames may go to EK, but pilots may go somewhere else.

A cargo hub without industrial base is just a hub. I think Chinese passenger planes are carrying a lot more cargo than ME3.

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:11 pm
by zeke
Maybe this is Saudi parking all of their freighters is a indication of the freight capacity dumping in the Middle East is unsustainable.

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:36 pm
by A388
dtw2hyd wrote:
worldranger wrote:
Strong rumors in ME that they are negotiating sending their 77Fs to EK along with pilots.

Interesting!!! Didn't EK move 747Fs to Atlas or someone else?


EK never operated the 744F themselves. These were leased from Atlas Air at the time and the contract was not extended. They also leased a Belgian 744F to fly for them (TNT).

A388

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:46 pm
by CO58
Noshow wrote:
So 777LR and A330F. So they end their freighter business? Strange.
Looks more like they remodel their company business big time.

They still have 5x 777F in the fleet. They are only retiring the A330F from service so they are not ending their dedicated freighter service entirely.

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:01 pm
by Newbiepilot
StTim wrote:
So much for the bounce back in the freight market that has been talked about.


Express freight is booming. Unfortunately that is not an area where Etihad competed.

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:37 pm
by worldranger
[photoid][/photoid]
zeke wrote:
Maybe this is Saudi parking all of their freighters is a indication of the freight capacity dumping in the Middle East is unsustainable.


I would agree, unless you have critical mass, SV & EY do not.

Watch this space for more EY developments - none good from my source.

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:44 pm
by TropicalSky
Is it me or things @ Eithad is moving south rather quickly

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:59 pm
by juliuswong
TropicalSky wrote:
Is it me or things @ Eithad is moving south rather quickly

All the grandeur dream of James Hogan to create global competitor is crashing to Earth, sadly speaking......They do have a beautiful livery though!

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:21 pm
by ikolkyo
I also feel EY will need to do some adjusting to their A350 and 788 orders, a lot of aircraft coming in...

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:22 pm
by sassiciai
frigatebird wrote:
runway23 wrote:
Weren't there rumours also that the A330 passenger fleet is on the way out too ?

Apparently leases will expire on the A330 passenger fleet. Lots of 787s inbound for EY, which should replace these.

Even if nothing else changes at EY, the day they replace the A330 with the B787 out of Brussels is the day I stop flying with them.

I have plenty of hours logged on these 330s, and do not wish to be subjected to 9-abreast 787 if I can at all avoid it!

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:50 pm
by frigatebird
ikolkyo wrote:
I also feel EY will need to do some adjusting to their A350 and 788 orders, a lot of aircraft coming in...

Agreed, way too many aircraft on order. Deferrals/cancellations are unavoidable IMO.

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:58 pm
by ikolkyo
sassiciai wrote:
frigatebird wrote:
runway23 wrote:
Weren't there rumours also that the A330 passenger fleet is on the way out too ?

Apparently leases will expire on the A330 passenger fleet. Lots of 787s inbound for EY, which should replace these.

Even if nothing else changes at EY, the day they replace the A330 with the B787 out of Brussels is the day I stop flying with them.

I have plenty of hours logged on these 330s, and do not wish to be subjected to 9-abreast 787 if I can at all avoid it!


EY won't be losing sleep over you because everyone else won't notice a thing.

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:50 pm
by BREECH
sassiciai wrote:
Even if nothing else changes at EY, the day they replace the A330 with the B787 out of Brussels is the day I stop flying with them. I have plenty of hours logged on these 330s, and do not wish to be subjected to 9-abreast 787 if I can at all avoid it!

I'm just off the phone with Etihad. They said it's devastating but they understand. They also hope that you will enjoy the Emirates' 10-abreast 777.

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:04 pm
by BREECH
Poor Baumgartner. All airlines he leads end up in bancruptcies. :-)

Seriously, though, how long before Etihad admits IT JUST DID NOT WORK? Even US3 and EUmany can't compete with Emirates, and they've been in that business before the United Arab Emirates were united. Etihad was started on a capricious whim and was run like a folly by, with all due respect, a richie rich from the royal family and a guy who has already buried an airline. It's been 15 years and they're still struggling. And with the oil prices where they are right now, there isn't much free capital where that came from. Maybe it's time to just throw the towel. I'm sure Emirates will happily take over their aircraft and maybe some operations.

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:51 pm
by sassiciai
BREECH wrote:
sassiciai wrote:
Even if nothing else changes at EY, the day they replace the A330 with the B787 out of Brussels is the day I stop flying with them. I have plenty of hours logged on these 330s, and do not wish to be subjected to 9-abreast 787 if I can at all avoid it!

I'm just off the phone with Etihad. They said it's devastating but they understand. They also hope that you will enjoy the Emirates' 10-abreast 777.


You and Ikolkyo can poke fun all you want. I will select how to fly from Brussels to Manila twice a year avoiding for as long as possible the need to take any over-stuffed Y cabins. Cathay is starting BRU - HKG with A350 this year, SIA and BA 2-stop with A380 for most of the flying time, 1-stop options with Malaysian and Thai (and others) that don't require sardine seating. So you've got lots of phoning to do if you want to cover off all the angles!

I select on price & comfort (some sort of value metric), perhaps you are only interested in price. Maybe you should cut down your international phone bill!

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:26 pm
by KarelXWB
Planes have been ferried to several storage locations:

Airbus A330 -243F 1032 A6-DCA Etihad Airways ferried 11jan18 AUH-AAN for storage (+ 1070 A6-DCB) ex F-WWKG


Airbus A330 -243F 1414 A6-DCC Etihad Airways last svc 28dec17 AUH-BLR-AUH, parked since (+ 1772 A6-DCE 30-31dec17, + 1524 A6-DCD 31dec17-01jan18 AUH-CGP-HAN-AUH) ex F-WWTL

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:40 pm
by Slug71
frigatebird wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
I also feel EY will need to do some adjusting to their A350 and 788 orders, a lot of aircraft coming in...

Agreed, way too many aircraft on order. Deferrals/cancellations are unavoidable IMO.


Yup. Can probably add the 777X to that too.

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:56 pm
by ikolkyo
Slug71 wrote:
frigatebird wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
I also feel EY will need to do some adjusting to their A350 and 788 orders, a lot of aircraft coming in...

Agreed, way too many aircraft on order. Deferrals/cancellations are unavoidable IMO.


Yup. Can probably add the 777X to that too.


I actually think the 777X is safe, years away from delivery and would be a solid 77W replacement.

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:49 pm
by Continental767
ikolkyo wrote:
Slug71 wrote:
frigatebird wrote:
Agreed, way too many aircraft on order. Deferrals/cancellations are unavoidable IMO.


Yup. Can probably add the 777X to that too.


I actually think the 777X is safe, years away from delivery and would be a solid 77W replacement.


I just hope Etihad is still around in a few years

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:05 am
by runway23
BREECH wrote:
Poor Baumgartner. All airlines he leads end up in bankruptcies


With pretty much the same exact strategy between SR and EY only 20 years apart... He went through the grounding of SR yet believed EY was immune to a similar fate. It does look like rather than going bust EY will just continue to die slowly like Gulf Air.

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:21 am
by lightsaber
TropicalSky wrote:
Is it me or things @ Eithad is moving south rather quickly

When you dramatically over-grow beyond break even, getting to break even is a long way down. While cargo is recovering, EY lacks scale as already noted.

If EY is getting rid of A330Fs, I bet the 777Fs are sold.

To others:
EY is abandoning being the 2nd largest of 4. (EK, TK, QR, and EY). That means they've lost the race for connections.

EK has been described as an airline the flies the A380, with the passengers connecting 20 to destination A, 19 to B, 18 to C and so on. Because of the massive connecting hub waves, they were profitable even in a lull end 2016/start 2017. EY and QR, from what little financial information we have, couldn't possibly have made a profit.

Losing those connections will hurt whatever connecting cargo revenue. Lack of a mid-terminal and multiple runways prevented forming competitive hub banks. Rolling hubs cut costs, but also revenue due to lack of connections and EY had no choice. A rolling hub needs a high O&D market; hence why TK's works.

EY had no choice but to downsize. The drop in oil prices reduced the surplus funds below sustainable (long term). When will QR realize this.

IMHO EK will continue to thrive as they have connections, alliances, and a numbers run strategy that adapts faster than the competition. TK will thrive with Istanbul's amazing O&D seeding connections. EY and QR? Too many airlines for a small market.

Now EY owning a chunk of 9W sets a bottom thanks to restricted Indian bilaterals. But EY still has to compete...

I see 787, A350, and 779 cancelations. Not all, but some of each dependent on terms. The 778... Sadly I think none will enter EY's fleet.


Lightsaber

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:27 am
by Channex757
The A330F aircraft may well find a home with someone like MNG, or another Turkish cargo specialist.

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:27 am
by sxf24
I think the demise of EY is being overstated. There will certainly be more rationalization and a period of no growth until after the new AUH terminal opens. EY still has the backing of the Abu Dhabi government, which will never admit defeat. It also has a couple of small advantages EK does not: US preclearance and a larger presence in India through Jet. Neither are a key to high yields and profitability, but will help EY carve out a niche.

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:03 am
by PerfectGriffin
lightsaber wrote:
TropicalSky wrote:
Is it me or things @ Eithad is moving south rather quickly

When you dramatically over-grow beyond break even, getting to break even is a long way down. While cargo is recovering, EY lacks scale as already noted.

If EY is getting rid of A330Fs, I bet the 777Fs are sold.

To others:
EY is abandoning being the 2nd largest of 4. (EK, TK, QR, and EY). That means they've lost the race for connections.

EK has been described as an airline the flies the A380, with the passengers connecting 20 to destination A, 19 to B, 18 to C and so on. Because of the massive connecting hub waves, they were profitable even in a lull end 2016/start 2017. EY and QR, from what little financial information we have, couldn't possibly have made a profit.

Losing those connections will hurt whatever connecting cargo revenue. Lack of a mid-terminal and multiple runways prevented forming competitive hub banks. Rolling hubs cut costs, but also revenue due to lack of connections and EY had no choice. A rolling hub needs a high O&D market; hence why TK's works.

EY had no choice but to downsize. The drop in oil prices reduced the surplus funds below sustainable (long term). When will QR realize this.

IMHO EK will continue to thrive as they have connections, alliances, and a numbers run strategy that adapts faster than the competition. TK will thrive with Istanbul's amazing O&D seeding connections. EY and QR? Too many airlines for a small market.

Now EY owning a chunk of 9W sets a bottom thanks to restricted Indian bilaterals. But EY still has to compete...

I see 787, A350, and 779 cancelations. Not all, but some of each dependent on terms. The 778... Sadly I think none will enter EY's fleet.


Lightsaber


EY was never the second largest. It was always far behind both QR and EK.

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:00 am
by BREECH
sassiciai wrote:
You and Ikolkyo can poke fun all you want. I will select how to fly from Brussels to Manila twice a year avoiding for as long as possible the need to take any over-stuffed Y cabins. Cathay is starting BRU - HKG with A350 this year, SIA and BA 2-stop with A380 for most of the flying time, 1-stop options with Malaysian and Thai (and others) that don't require sardine seating. So you've got lots of phoning to do if you want to cover off all the angles!

I select on price & comfort (some sort of value metric), perhaps you are only interested in price. Maybe you should cut down your international phone bill!

And I'm with you on that. I hate those sardinized cabis. It's not WHAT you said, it's HOW you said it. Lots of people think that bold statements on forums are of interest to airlines. That airlines monitor "industry forums" to see the people's reaction. They don't. They don't care. Until it influences their accounting numbers, they are happy to lose you or anyone else as a customer.

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:58 am
by piedmontf284000
EY is taking it on the chin right now...some bad business decisions have come back to bite them. Investing in AZ and AB wasn't the wisest decision and they are definitely paying the price now. IMO however they are doing the right thing. They are being honest with themselves and being proactive. They are cutting what isn't profitable. The cargo business, while having turned around a bit, is still soft and they just can't compete with the bigger cargo carriers. Look for more cuts by EY but they will survive.

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:07 pm
by scotron11
lightsaber wrote:
TropicalSky wrote:
Is it me or things @ Eithad is moving south rather quickly

When you dramatically over-grow beyond break even, getting to break even is a long way down. While cargo is recovering, EY lacks scale as already noted.

If EY is getting rid of A330Fs, I bet the 777Fs are sold.

To others:
EY is abandoning being the 2nd largest of 4. (EK, TK, QR, and EY). That means they've lost the race for connections.

EK has been described as an airline the flies the A380, with the passengers connecting 20 to destination A, 19 to B, 18 to C and so on. Because of the massive connecting hub waves, they were profitable even in a lull end 2016/start 2017. EY and QR, from what little financial information we have, couldn't possibly have made a profit.

Losing those connections will hurt whatever connecting cargo revenue. Lack of a mid-terminal and multiple runways prevented forming competitive hub banks. Rolling hubs cut costs, but also revenue due to lack of connections and EY had no choice. A rolling hub needs a high O&D market; hence why TK's works.

EY had no choice but to downsize. The drop in oil prices reduced the surplus funds below sustainable (long term). When will QR realize this.

IMHO EK will continue to thrive as they have connections, alliances, and a numbers run strategy that adapts faster than the competition. TK will thrive with Istanbul's amazing O&D seeding connections. EY and QR? Too many airlines for a small market.

Now EY owning a chunk of 9W sets a bottom thanks to restricted Indian bilaterals. But EY still has to compete...

I see 787, A350, and 779 cancelations. Not all, but some of each dependent on terms. The 778... Sadly I think none will enter EY's fleet.


Lightsaber


Does seem to be the case...their newest A330F is only 11months old. And those are delivered frames,....what they do with their currents orders does not bode wel for Boeing or Airbus.

As to Qatar, their big export is LPG...and they are a lot richer than the UAE so QR going bust is remote

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:13 pm
by mafaky
Channex757 wrote:
The A330F aircraft may well find a home with someone like MNG, or another Turkish cargo specialist.


Rumors have surfaced here in Turkey that TK (Cargo) is interested in these 5 332Fs. The present day parking area constraint at IST (Ataturk International) may absorb these 5 frames, but certainly not the 5 777Fs. Otherwise TK might as well be interested in those. TK's fleet currently stands at 9 332Fs & 2 777Fs ("owned" frames) and 3 more 777Fs due to arrive on the last 3 months of 2018. When the New Istanbul Airport opens (end Oct. 2018) and becomes fully operational (estimated mid-2019), then TK will not have any parking lot shortage, anyway...

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:56 pm
by william
BREECH wrote:
sassiciai wrote:
Even if nothing else changes at EY, the day they replace the A330 with the B787 out of Brussels is the day I stop flying with them. I have plenty of hours logged on these 330s, and do not wish to be subjected to 9-abreast 787 if I can at all avoid it!

I'm just off the phone with Etihad. They said it's devastating but they understand. They also hope that you will enjoy the Emirates' 10-abreast 777.


That was very sarcrastic and somewhat uncalled for........................................But that was tooo funny!!!! :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:02 pm
by william
lightsaber wrote:
TropicalSky wrote:
Is it me or things @ Eithad is moving south rather quickly

When you dramatically over-grow beyond break even, getting to break even is a long way down. While cargo is recovering, EY lacks scale as already noted.

If EY is getting rid of A330Fs, I bet the 777Fs are sold.

To others:
EY is abandoning being the 2nd largest of 4. (EK, TK, QR, and EY). That means they've lost the race for connections.

EK has been described as an airline the flies the A380, with the passengers connecting 20 to destination A, 19 to B, 18 to C and so on. Because of the massive connecting hub waves, they were profitable even in a lull end 2016/start 2017. EY and QR, from what little financial information we have, couldn't possibly have made a profit.

Losing those connections will hurt whatever connecting cargo revenue. Lack of a mid-terminal and multiple runways prevented forming competitive hub banks. Rolling hubs cut costs, but also revenue due to lack of connections and EY had no choice. A rolling hub needs a high O&D market; hence why TK's works.

EY had no choice but to downsize. The drop in oil prices reduced the surplus funds below sustainable (long term). When will QR realize this.

IMHO EK will continue to thrive as they have connections, alliances, and a numbers run strategy that adapts faster than the competition. TK will thrive with Istanbul's amazing O&D seeding connections. EY and QR? Too many airlines for a small market.

Now EY owning a chunk of 9W sets a bottom thanks to restricted Indian bilaterals. But EY still has to compete...

I see 787, A350, and 779 cancelations. Not all, but some of each dependent on terms. The 778... Sadly I think none will enter EY's fleet.


Lightsaber


Maybe we are seeing a rationalizing of the M3, to M1 1/2 (EK and somewhat QR) . For some time, many posters here have stated watch out for Turkey, and with the new airport coming online we will see. It may spur the Dubai to move its mega airport plans up some. And I agree, I think we will start seeing some WB deferrals for Airbus and Boeing from QR and Ethiad.

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:28 pm
by xwb777
lightsaber wrote:
TropicalSky wrote:
Is it me or things @ Eithad is moving south rather quickly

When you dramatically over-grow beyond break even, getting to break even is a long way down. While cargo is recovering, EY lacks scale as already noted.

If EY is getting rid of A330Fs, I bet the 777Fs are sold.

To others:
EY is abandoning being the 2nd largest of 4. (EK, TK, QR, and EY). That means they've lost the race for connections.

EK has been described as an airline the flies the A380, with the passengers connecting 20 to destination A, 19 to B, 18 to C and so on. Because of the massive connecting hub waves, they were profitable even in a lull end 2016/start 2017. EY and QR, from what little financial information we have, couldn't possibly have made a profit.

Losing those connections will hurt whatever connecting cargo revenue. Lack of a mid-terminal and multiple runways prevented forming competitive hub banks. Rolling hubs cut costs, but also revenue due to lack of connections and EY had no choice. A rolling hub needs a high O&D market; hence why TK's works.

EY had no choice but to downsize. The drop in oil prices reduced the surplus funds below sustainable (long term). When will QR realize this.

IMHO EK will continue to thrive as they have connections, alliances, and a numbers run strategy that adapts faster than the competition. TK will thrive with Istanbul's amazing O&D seeding connections. EY and QR? Too many airlines for a small market.

Now EY owning a chunk of 9W sets a bottom thanks to restricted Indian bilaterals. But EY still has to compete...

I see 787, A350, and 779 cancelations. Not all, but some of each dependent on terms. The 778... Sadly I think none will enter EY's fleet.


Lightsaber


The following article states that Etihad might consider cancelling some orders when the full strategy review is complete. I guess the B777X order will be go
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -continues

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:41 pm
by xwb777
Lightsaber[/quote]

Maybe we are seeing a rationalizing of the M3, to M1 1/2 (EK and somewhat QR) . For some time, many posters here have stated watch out for Turkey, and with the new airport coming online we will see. It may spur the Dubai to move its mega airport plans up some. And I agree, I think we will start seeing some WB deferrals for Airbus and Boeing from QR and Ethiad.[/quote]

I don't think QR will defer deliveries as there ego will stop them, especially with the ongoing crisis with the neighbors. QR won't show that they are in a weak position.

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:25 am
by lightsaber
xwb777 wrote:
Lightsaber


Maybe we are seeing a rationalizing of the M3, to M1 1/2 (EK and somewhat QR) . For some time, many posters here have stated watch out for Turkey, and with the new airport coming online we will see. It may spur the Dubai to move its mega airport plans up some. And I agree, I think we will start seeing some WB deferrals for Airbus and Boeing from QR and Ethiad.[/quote]

I don't think QR will defer deliveries as there ego will stop them, especially with the ongoing crisis with the neighbors. QR won't show that they are in a weak position.[/quote]
Very interesting post.

I agree the ME3 are due for a correction. The 787 and A350 are allowing bypass. There is no need for four hubs so close to each other. Istanbul has high O&D. Dubai has decent O&D by enabling an environment conducive to international business. But Qatar and Abu Dhabi didn't ask 'how do we need to change to attract business.'. Dubai built golf courses, zoned úchurches/synagogues, encouraged foreign supper market chains, allowed the sale of alcohol, allowed their airport to be a wayport early, and saw the opportunity.

The reality is EY never achieved the same network. Nor did QR. In this case, EY is giving up freighters when rates are elevated. That tells me the have a lack of network. The 77W is a modern combined. Since EK has scale, they can take freight (say food) from Europe and distribute through Asia (heck, there are been threads on racing cars). EY just doesn't have the scale.

Perhaps the flower warehouse at DXB is a better example. Tim Clark's team found a niche unfilled for perishable goods. That grew to the regional pharmaceutical distribution as the cold transport processes we're already in place.

Here on a.net there is a lot of dismissal of first mover advantage. Yes, many first movers are overcome, but only if they do not grow quickly. When was the last EK isn't growing fast enough thread?

Ironically, EK stopped growing quick at just the right time as DXB is limited stock times people (and thus accompanying cargo below deck), wanted to fly. Dubai didn't have the funds to fast track DWC either.

So EY and QR grew when EK was constrained and it should have been more profitable. Instead both are bleeding 'investment money' while EK was forced to conserve cash for DWC.

Instead of fast DWC construction, EK was spared dire straights (by not spending on DWC) when oil prices plumetted while EY and QR over committed.

Sorry for the long post, but quirks on expansion timing and oil prices played an interesting hand to Saudia, EK, EY, QR, and even the Indian airlines.

Sometimes it is better to be lucky than good and that wasn't either for EY.

Lightsaber

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:05 am
by Channex757
I never could see the justification of the Emirate of Abu Dhabi needing to have its own airline, specifically set up to rival EK. yes, it probably was a willy-waving exercise between the ultra rich leaders, but EK was first to market and in Maurice Flanagan had a visionary at the helm from the word go. Etihad just didn't have all those ducks in a row.

If anything Oman Air (the forgotten one of the ME4) would have been a better model. Find a niche and expand into it, as they are doing. They don't want to get into a fare fight to the bottom with EK and QR on major trunk routes, instead building out a medium haul operation with real value. Etihad could still do it; cancel a lot of their incoming larger jets and concentrate on their reach into Europe and on the Kangaroo routes where they do have some traction. Their narrowbodies also have some value.

I can't see this happening though as willies are still being waved. EY will probably go on a cancellation spree once the Emir has had enough and then the rump of Etihad will go into a merger with a great deal of face-saving diplomacy.

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:28 am
by zrh177
BREECH wrote:
sassiciai wrote:
Even if nothing else changes at EY, the day they replace the A330 with the B787 out of Brussels is the day I stop flying with them. I have plenty of hours logged on these 330s, and do not wish to be subjected to 9-abreast 787 if I can at all avoid it!

I'm just off the phone with Etihad. They said it's devastating but they understand. They also hope that you will enjoy the Emirates' 10-abreast 777.


Lol this is great.

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:14 am
by Max Q
Not too many A330F’s are there ?


Who else operates them ?

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:32 am
by ChristopherS
Max Q wrote:
Not too many A330F’s are there ?


Who else operates them ?

Not too many, Turkish and MNG, three of the Aviancas, Hong Kong, Qatar, and Malaysia. I doubt it'll be long before these frames are snatched up though, if I had to guess it'd probably be HK and/or Turkish.

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:36 am
by aerokiwi
Why are posters comenting as though EY is shutting up shop altogether? Wishful thinking? Clearly their investment strategy has flopped and they're right sixing and reevaluating across their network and offering. Seems sensible, as opposed to other carriers that have followed failed strategies bloody mindedly and gone splat.

I doubt they'd outright cancel orders but perhaps create a leasing arm. And VA is likely looking for a single 77W/332 replacement in the next couple of years so that may be a 787/350 destination there.

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:57 am
by seabosdca
In the long term, I think even the jealous emirs will realize that there is really no solution but to unite EK and EY at DWC.

In the short term, Etihad needs to rationalize a bit, and it looks like that's what's happening. There are indeed too many aircraft on order; I expect some of the 777X currently on order by EY will end up being absorbed by EK, and a significant number of A350s may well be cancelled. I think only the A32xneos and the 787, the cheapest and least risky widebody on order, are safe.

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:12 am
by SQ789
Noshow wrote:
So 777LR and A330F. So they end their freighter business? Strange.
Looks more like they remodel their company business big time.

I don't think so, maybe they do have the 777F as the last freighter fleet. Anyway, the -200LR is a passenger plane, not a freighter plane.

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:20 pm
by frigatebird
seabosdca wrote:
In the long term, I think even the jealous emirs will realize that there is really no solution but to unite EK and EY at DWC.

In the short term, Etihad needs to rationalize a bit, and it looks like that's what's happening. There are indeed too many aircraft on order; I expect some of the 777X currently on order by EY will end up being absorbed by EK, and a significant number of A350s may well be cancelled. I think only the A32xneos and the 787, the cheapest and least risky widebody on order, are safe.

Not even the 787s are safe IMO. Setting up a leasing arm would be a possibility to avoid paying huge cancellation penalties, but that's not so straightforward. Norwegian found this out with their A320neo order, seems they will operate them themselves now.

With EY grounding less than a year old A330F's, I wouldn't surprised if they'll bite the bullet and opt for paying cancellation fees.

Re: Etihad to retire A330 freighter fleet

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:47 pm
by Revelation
aerokiwi wrote:
Why are posters comenting as though EY is shutting up shop altogether? Wishful thinking? Clearly their investment strategy has flopped and they're right sixing and reevaluating across their network and offering. Seems sensible, as opposed to other carriers that have followed failed strategies bloody mindedly and gone splat.

It might be unkind to state this, but many of us think the Italian and German investments were textbook cases of "failed strategies (followed) bloody mindedly" and thus the splat would not be unexpected, except for the fact that when EY's owner looks at his money he sees his own face, or that of one of his relatives. Now, it's all about saving those faces.