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Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:05 pm

A Norwegian 787 operating JFK-LGW has set the record for the quickest transatlantic flight crossing of a subsonic jet. The aircraft made the journey in 5 hours and 13 minutes

A new record has been set for the fastest ever transatlantic flight in a subsonic passenger aircraft after one flew from New York to London in just over five hours.
The Norwegian Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner was able to reach a top speed of 776mph as it hurtled across the Atlantic Ocean after being pushed on the 3,458-mile journey by an extra strong jet stream that at times reached 202mph.
This meant that Monday's Norwegian DY7014 service from JFK to London Gatwick only took a total of five hours and 13 minutes, shaving 53 minutes off the expected flight duration.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/trave ... z54Y4iCO2i
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MalevTU134
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:24 pm

Doubt that. I am sure St. John's - LHR is or has been done quicker...
 
BENAir01
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:38 pm

I think they meant quickest speed wise not time wise.
This is pretty cool! I’m glad it wansnt a BA flight or something with fully flat seats in J and F, because that would suck to pay for the fully flat seats only to have breakfast being served directly after dinner with no time to sleep between.
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:47 pm

BENAir01 wrote:
I think they meant quickest speed wise not time wise.
This is pretty cool! I’m glad it wansnt a BA flight or something with fully flat seats in J and F, because that would suck to pay for the fully flat seats only to have breakfast being served directly after dinner with no time to sleep between.


For something like $268 round trip, I'm betting some/most of the pax didn't miss out on the alternative BA premium experience (which is something like 10x as expensive I think, and up to around $7K). Heck, even with an award ticket, the fuel surcharge on BA is about the Norwegian fare.
 
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:59 pm

How would that only shave 53 minutes off the flight time? Unless they were only in that extreme jet stream for a little of the flight. I was on a January flight from EWR to EDI and we sat at the gate for an hour after our scheduled departure time and still arrived 30 minutes early, and had to wait for customs to open. But I suppose if we were going consistently over the expected cruise speed, and this flight only went unusually fast for part of it...or if they had to then circle to avoid curfew issues?
 
TC957
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:11 pm

Think that was the EXPECTED flight time it shaved that 53 mins off.
 
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:22 pm

Surely a VC10 would have done JFK-LHR in less???
 
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:22 pm

cosyr wrote:
How would that only shave 53 minutes off the flight time? Unless they were only in that extreme jet stream for a little of the flight. I was on a January flight from EWR to EDI and we sat at the gate for an hour after our scheduled departure time and still arrived 30 minutes early, and had to wait for customs to open. But I suppose if we were going consistently over the expected cruise speed, and this flight only went unusually fast for part of it...or if they had to then circle to avoid curfew issues?


You'll find that airlines schedule flights for longer than they normally take, I believe it's to avoid late landing fines etc

For example, Virgin Atlantic's VS3 from LHR to JFK is scheduled as a 8hour & 10 minute flight, when in fact the flight time the past few dates has been between 7hours 9mins and 7hours 43mins...
Q400, A320-200, A321-200, 737-500, 737-800, 747-400, 757-200, 787-9 // FCA, TOM, TUI, MON, MT, BA, VS, DL, BE, X9, OLY // Upcoming: W6 A320, W6 A321, EVA 77W, VS 787-9m AS A320, VS A35K, KLM E190, KLM 738, LS 737
 
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:22 pm

Not to get into a whose D**K is bigger thread but is the 787 faster than the 747? I was always under the impression the 747 is usually the fastest sub sonic aircraft. How does the A350 stack up? I realize they all travel roughly 565mph but that speed is impressive.
 
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:51 pm

JamesCousins wrote:
cosyr wrote:
How would that only shave 53 minutes off the flight time? Unless they were only in that extreme jet stream for a little of the flight. I was on a January flight from EWR to EDI and we sat at the gate for an hour after our scheduled departure time and still arrived 30 minutes early, and had to wait for customs to open. But I suppose if we were going consistently over the expected cruise speed, and this flight only went unusually fast for part of it...or if they had to then circle to avoid curfew issues?


You'll find that airlines schedule flights for longer than they normally take, I believe it's to avoid late landing fines etc

For example, Virgin Atlantic's VS3 from LHR to JFK is scheduled as a 8hour & 10 minute flight, when in fact the flight time the past few dates has been between 7hours 9mins and 7hours 43mins...


Schedules are expressed as gate to gate, so the flight time will always be a part of that... For LHR and JFK, a large part of the total block time is actually spent on the ground be it before take-off or after landing.
 
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:04 pm

runway23 wrote:
JamesCousins wrote:
cosyr wrote:
How would that only shave 53 minutes off the flight time? Unless they were only in that extreme jet stream for a little of the flight. I was on a January flight from EWR to EDI and we sat at the gate for an hour after our scheduled departure time and still arrived 30 minutes early, and had to wait for customs to open. But I suppose if we were going consistently over the expected cruise speed, and this flight only went unusually fast for part of it...or if they had to then circle to avoid curfew issues?


You'll find that airlines schedule flights for longer than they normally take, I believe it's to avoid late landing fines etc

For example, Virgin Atlantic's VS3 from LHR to JFK is scheduled as a 8hour & 10 minute flight, when in fact the flight time the past few dates has been between 7hours 9mins and 7hours 43mins...


Schedules are expressed as gate to gate, so the flight time will always be a part of that... For LHR and JFK, a large part of the total block time is actually spent on the ground be it before take-off or after landing.


Ah I didn't realize that, the ques at LHR for take off clearance can be awful, and often even worse when landing...
Q400, A320-200, A321-200, 737-500, 737-800, 747-400, 757-200, 787-9 // FCA, TOM, TUI, MON, MT, BA, VS, DL, BE, X9, OLY // Upcoming: W6 A320, W6 A321, EVA 77W, VS 787-9m AS A320, VS A35K, KLM E190, KLM 738, LS 737
 
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:29 pm

Boeingphan wrote:
Not to get into a whose D**K is bigger thread but is the 787 faster than the 747? I was always under the impression the 747 is usually the fastest sub sonic aircraft. How does the A350 stack up? I realize they all travel roughly 565mph but that speed is impressive.


The fastest subsonic aircraft is actually the TU-154, but that never flew TATL. The 747 isn't actually that fast. It's very powerful due to the fact that it has 4 engines, but it's also very heavy so most of that power is needed to pull it's own weight. The 787 isn't that much less powerfull, but a lot lighter so there's a lot more overcapacity on the engines.

However, most of it is not due to the aircraft itself. It just happened to be at the right place at the right time. Some unexpected tailwinds that aren't there all the time but were there at that time plus a nice fast aircraft made them set this record.
 
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:40 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
Boeingphan wrote:
Not to get into a whose D**K is bigger thread but is the 787 faster than the 747? I was always under the impression the 747 is usually the fastest sub sonic aircraft. How does the A350 stack up? I realize they all travel roughly 565mph but that speed is impressive.


The fastest subsonic aircraft is actually the TU-154, but that never flew TATL. The 747 isn't actually that fast. It's very powerful due to the fact that it has 4 engines, but it's also very heavy so most of that power is needed to pull it's own weight. The 787 isn't that much less powerfull, but a lot lighter so there's a lot more overcapacity on the engines.

However, most of it is not due to the aircraft itself. It just happened to be at the right place at the right time. Some unexpected tailwinds that aren't there all the time but were there at that time plus a nice fast aircraft made them set this record.

The 747 is quite fast. So we're the 707 and DC8. It's the more modern jets that were slower for the sake of efficiency (767, A330) and now the current gen is closer to the 747. The 747, 777, 787, A350 and A380 all have efficient cruise speed of 0.85, but the 747 has a max speed of 0.92 while the rest are between 0.88 and 0.90. And the fastest at economical cruise speed was the 747SP at 0.88.
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Arion640
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:46 pm

Wasn't a BA 777 the previous record holder?
 
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:30 pm

skipness1E wrote:
Surely a VC10 would have done JFK-LHR in less???


You are correct, record for fastest subsonic commercial flight across the N Atlantic was on a BA VC-10 G-ASGC from JFK to PIK in March 1979 with 5hr 1m
 
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:43 pm

JamesCousins wrote:
runway23 wrote:
Schedules are expressed as gate to gate, so the flight time will always be a part of that... For LHR and JFK, a large part of the total block time is actually spent on the ground be it before take-off or after landing.
Ah I didn't realize that, the ques at LHR for take off clearance can be awful, and often even worse when landing...


From personal experience, MEL-SYD is blocked by QF at 90 mins but every time I've flown it the actual flight time has been within a couple of minutes of 60.

However there are other times where allowances are made for variations in flight time within this - many QF flights from Australia to LAX, for example, consistently appear to depart considerably later than scheduled but arrive roughly on time; this is done to avoid arriving early and having to hold for the scheduled landing slot, or pay extra (IIRC) for an earlier slot.
 
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:52 pm

skipness1E wrote:
Surely a VC10 would have done JFK-LHR in less???

And in far better Style ;)
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:59 pm

Aer Lingus did BOS-DUB in 4h37 minutes twice last week, surely this is closer to a record holder :)

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ei136
 
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:10 pm

inflightVideo wrote:
Aer Lingus did BOS-DUB in 4h37 minutes twice last week, surely this is closer to a record holder :)

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ei136


Impressive. The more important question is, if they serve Guinness at Dublin Airport at 4am. In other words, what do you do arriving at this time? Surprised DUB is open 24h actually.
 
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:17 pm

mat66 wrote:
Impressive. The more important question is, if they serve Guinness at Dublin Airport at 4am. In other words, what do you do arriving at this time? Surprised DUB is open 24h actually.


I wonder how long the wait on the ground for a stand was!
 
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:29 pm

mat66 wrote:
inflightVideo wrote:
Aer Lingus did BOS-DUB in 4h37 minutes twice last week, surely this is closer to a record holder :)

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ei136


Impressive. The more important question is, if they serve Guinness at Dublin Airport at 4am. In other words, what do you do arriving at this time? Surprised DUB is open 24h actually.


It's frequent to see Irish having Guinness as breakfast at the airport by 5-5:30 at least.....
 
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:32 pm

Jayafe wrote:
mat66 wrote:
inflightVideo wrote:
Aer Lingus did BOS-DUB in 4h37 minutes twice last week, surely this is closer to a record holder :)

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ei136


Impressive. The more important question is, if they serve Guinness at Dublin Airport at 4am. In other words, what do you do arriving at this time? Surprised DUB is open 24h actually.


It's frequent to see Irish having Guinness as breakfast at the airport by 5-5:30 at least.....


When the bar keeper hears the flight from Boston is early he opens up no matter what.

In a more serious note the VC-10 was a great plane.
 
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:42 pm

I bet Westbound was brutal that day..
 
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:49 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
Boeingphan wrote:
Not to get into a whose D**K is bigger thread but is the 787 faster than the 747? I was always under the impression the 747 is usually the fastest sub sonic aircraft. How does the A350 stack up? I realize they all travel roughly 565mph but that speed is impressive.


The fastest subsonic aircraft is actually the TU-154, but that never flew TATL. The 747 isn't actually that fast. It's very powerful due to the fact that it has 4 engines, but it's also very heavy so most of that power is needed to pull it's own weight. The 787 isn't that much less powerfull, but a lot lighter so there's a lot more overcapacity on the engines.

However, most of it is not due to the aircraft itself. It just happened to be at the right place at the right time. Some unexpected tailwinds that aren't there all the time but were there at that time plus a nice fast aircraft made them set this record.


You must be 14 years old.

The 747 is incredibly fast by today's standards, sometimes cruising at mach .89
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:05 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
The 747 is incredibly fast by today's standards, sometimes cruising at mach .89


I'd like to know for some time what determines max/max cruise speed. Is it just wing sweep? The 747 as the fastest also has an incredible 37.5 degree wing sweep. My guess is you also have to add structure and thereby weight to wings and maybe even fuselage.
Why are 787/A350 faster than 767/A330 for example?
 
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:13 pm

mat66 wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
The 747 is incredibly fast by today's standards, sometimes cruising at mach .89


I'd like to know for some time what determines max/max cruise speed. Is it just wing sweep? The 747 as the fastest also has an incredible 37.5 degree wing sweep. My guess is you also have to add structure and thereby weight to wings and maybe even fuselage.
Why are 787/A350 faster than 767/A330 for example?


In a nutshell, yes. The high sweep was an early method of delaying the onset of transsonic drag as you approach critical mach.

Newer airfoils (787, maybe the A350) achieve this through some combination of an increase in aspect ratio and supercritical laminar flow airfoils.
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bx737
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:13 pm

Wasn’t the CV990 the fastest subsonic airliner? It’s max speed was 615mph.
 
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:01 am

bx737 wrote:
Wasn’t the CV990 the fastest subsonic airliner? It’s max speed was 615mph.


I think you're right, but was it able to fly transatlantic? Thought all the Convairs were short haul aircraft.
 
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:14 am

Varsity1 wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
Boeingphan wrote:
Not to get into a whose D**K is bigger thread but is the 787 faster than the 747? I was always under the impression the 747 is usually the fastest sub sonic aircraft. How does the A350 stack up? I realize they all travel roughly 565mph but that speed is impressive.


The fastest subsonic aircraft is actually the TU-154, but that never flew TATL. The 747 isn't actually that fast. It's very powerful due to the fact that it has 4 engines, but it's also very heavy so most of that power is needed to pull it's own weight. The 787 isn't that much less powerfull, but a lot lighter so there's a lot more overcapacity on the engines.

However, most of it is not due to the aircraft itself. It just happened to be at the right place at the right time. Some unexpected tailwinds that aren't there all the time but were there at that time plus a nice fast aircraft made them set this record.


You must be 14 years old.

The 747 is incredibly fast by today's standards, sometimes cruising at mach .89


I thought that too (14 years old).

The 747 is a bit faster than the 787. 747 cruises around .87. 787 around .85. 777 around .83-.84.

All are faster than the 767 and A340. Not sure what the A350 cruises at.
 
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:48 am

airtechy wrote:
bx737 wrote:
Wasn’t the CV990 the fastest subsonic airliner? It’s max speed was 615mph.


I think you're right, but was it able to fly transatlantic? Thought all the Convairs were short haul aircraft.

With 37 planes built there were several variants. They belonged to two major groups, 990 and 990A. The 990A was the name of some heavier and longer range versions with marginal TATL capability.

Swissair and SAS used CV-990A on some shorter TATL routes. But that was so many years ago. The smoke from their GE805-23B engines has almost dispersed by now.

Later Modern Air Transport used them for charter on for instance Vienna - Philadelphia, but at much reduced "economic" speed. At M0.78 the 990 wasn't that much more thirsty than a B707 or DC-8.

The CV-990 could be very fast, but it had some limitations. For instance when the outboard anti-shock bodies still held fuel, then MMO above FL210 was limited to M0.71 or 0.78 depending on model, and of course even more restricted at lower altitude. Too fast, and still fuel in the outboard anti-shock bodies, could induce flutter in the outboard wings. In the middle of the only 3 years production run the anti-shock bodies were slightly modified and the engine nacelles slightly repositioned on the wing in order to partly cure the problem. Some of the remedies were retrofitted on some of the earlier planes. Yeah, those were the days.... :?
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:34 am

It was technically going faster than the speed of sound, however the tailwind meant it never broke the sound barrier.
 
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:00 am

Samrnpage wrote:
It was technically going faster than the speed of sound, however the tailwind meant it never broke the sound barrier.


Then it’s not technically going faster than the speed of sound. Sound is relative to airspeed not ground speed.
 
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:08 am

Yeah, winds are intense lately. I did PHL-MAD in a shade over 6 hours yesterday. Easily an hour less than normal.
 
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:12 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
Samrnpage wrote:
It was technically going faster than the speed of sound, however the tailwind meant it never broke the sound barrier.


Then it’s not technically going faster than the speed of sound. Sound is relative to airspeed not ground speed.


I was just going to ask about the speed of sound! So what was the 787's airspeed as opposed to its groundspeed?
 
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:17 am

14 years after burying Concord, don't tell me anything about speed records.
 
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:43 am

TC957 wrote:
Think that was the EXPECTED flight time it shaved that 53 mins off.


How on earth do they still have an AOC if their flight plans are out by close to 20%.

Would make flying into wind an emergency.
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:03 am

texl1649 wrote:
BENAir01 wrote:
I think they meant quickest speed wise not time wise.
This is pretty cool! I’m glad it wansnt a BA flight or something with fully flat seats in J and F, because that would suck to pay for the fully flat seats only to have breakfast being served directly after dinner with no time to sleep between.


For something like $268 round trip, I'm betting some/most of the pax didn't miss out on the alternative BA premium experience (which is something like 10x as expensive I think, and up to around $7K). Heck, even with an award ticket, the fuel surcharge on BA is about the Norwegian fare.


Guess which airline is losing a fortune on long haul ex London?
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:33 am

In the days when the B787 was new to BA I did ask one to slow down! His reply when in range was to send his apologies he did try to slow down but due to the B787 being so light he could not go any slower.

At the moment it is not unusual for East Coast flights to be arriving up to 1hour early.

Just for info at LHR we work on a 15 - 20min taxi time depending which runway and which terminal you are using.
 
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:51 am

skipness1E wrote:
Surely a VC10 would have done JFK-LHR in less???


My thought exactly.
 
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:57 am

readytotaxi wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
Surely a VC10 would have done JFK-LHR in less???

And in far better Style ;)


:champagne: No doubt about that. Not to mention grace, elegance, character... :bigthumbsup:
 
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:05 am

As usual with news and journalism today, the standards are plain simply piss poor. It's record for a sub-sonic aircraft flying between New York and London. It's not a record for an Atlantic crossing, nor is it a record for New York - London. The former is held by Air Canada operating St. John's - Heathrow, the latter will forever more be held by Concorde.

So it's a record of sorts, provided you apply a very narrow set of criteria. But that would require thinking both on behalf of the reporter and his audience, and since it's the Daily Fail we're talking about, well, neither is likely to happen.
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:35 pm

qf789 wrote:
A Norwegian 787 operating JFK-LGW has set the record for the quickest transatlantic flight crossing of a subsonic jet. The aircraft made the journey in 5 hours and 13 minutes

A new record has been set for the fastest ever transatlantic flight in a subsonic passenger aircraft after one flew from New York to London in just over five hours.
The Norwegian Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner was able to reach a top speed of 776mph as it hurtled across the Atlantic Ocean after being pushed on the 3,458-mile journey by an extra strong jet stream that at times reached 202mph.
This meant that Monday's Norwegian DY7014 service from JFK to London Gatwick only took a total of five hours and 13 minutes, shaving 53 minutes off the expected flight duration.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/trave ... z54Y4iCO2i

I am sure it has become clear to you now, but you made a grave error with the thread title.

This is NOT the "quickest subsonic transatlantic flight".

It's not the fastest in terms of airspeed - (that is beaten at least by the previous day's flight reaching 779mph groundspeed)

It's not the quickest US to UK flight - that is the VC-10 record dating back many years, but landing at Prestwick

It's not the quickest trans-atlantic "regular" crossing - that is currently being claimed by BOS-DUB at 4hr37mins

And there may even be quicker crossings on record somewhere if we go back to the days when there were fuel stops at Gander and Goose Bay. Purists will argue that they shouldn't count, but that could also depend on whether the airlines ever sold tickets for that sector of the flight alone? Plus mostly these fuel stops were for eastbound flights.
The RCAF operated CC-137s (707s) on a pseudo-military timetable between Goose Bay and LGW back in the 70's.
Here's one departing the LGW terminal, where it would often meet a CC-130 shuttle taking pax & light cargo onwards to CFB Lahr.
(also loving the NorthWest Orient, Braniff and two Wardair 747s, plus one more 747 I cannot identify)


Summary
As stated in your OP, and in the article itself, but easily overlooked by those just reading the title....
A new record has been set for the fastest ever transatlantic flight in a subsonic passenger aircraft from New York to London


As a mod, is there any chance you could amend your own thread title at this stage? :duck:

EDIT; whilst I was busy checking my facts, and enjoying digging out some old photos, B777LRF beat me to it. :D
(and he said it all with far fewer words... mea culpa)
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
texl1649
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:48 pm

I would think a Convair 880/990 might have been run transatlantic a time or two, between London and NY, but maybe not. Mach .97 in level flight would be tough to beat for subsonic records.
 
ramzi
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:11 pm

crownvic wrote:
I bet Westbound was brutal that day..


I was actually on BA that day flying westbound. Longest LHR-BOS I've ever flown at a solid 7h45. The headwinds rarely went below 100mph.
There will come a time when you believe everything is finished - that will be the beginning.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:55 pm

oldannyboy wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
Surely a VC10 would have done JFK-LHR in less???

And in far better Style ;)


:champagne: No doubt about that. Not to mention grace, elegance, character... :bigthumbsup:


I don't know. A 787 is a pretty elegant machine both in looks and function. I bet the VC10 didn't have cramped 17' wide seats and 31' seat pitch though.

What was the long range cruise speed of the VC-10 in units of mach? How fast was it? Agree it's a nice looking machine, as are most other first generation jets.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:47 pm

texl1649 wrote:
I would think a Convair 880/990 might have been run transatlantic a time or two, between London and NY, but maybe not. Mach .97 in level flight would be tough to beat for subsonic records.

Can you back up that Mach .97 claim?
My gut reaction was that Convairs were never used across the Atlantic, but I am wrong. In addition to Modern Air using their 990A aircraft on nonstop transatlantic charter flights from Philadelphia to Vienna at M. 0.78, I found this unusual visitor to LGW. Or should I say pair of unusual transatlantic visitors, because also in shot is a Wardair B727, another type rarely featured on TATL flights, and also from Canada. (In fact there is also a Wardair 707 tail just visible on the far side of the glass & steel terminal pier). What a day!

I remember very well that the Convairs were the fastest airliners of all; it absolutely said so on the poster I had on my bedroom wall.
But..... after checking Wikipedia, I find figures such as 615 and even 621 mph, but set against relatively low altitudes such as 22,500 ft and 21,200 ft (CV990A). This equates to only Mach .89.

Data from Boeing themselves shows the 707 offers 607 mph, but again without any altitude or mach equivalent.
Wikipedia shows the DC-8 has a much lower speed, but again no mach number or altitude.
Ironically, it was the DC-8 that was chosen to break the sound barrier (years before Concorde, :lol: )

As a further example of how data can be twisted, this site places the 747-8 in the mix at 614mph, and the A380 right up there behind Concorde, with an incredible 676 mph.
Surely that can't be right?
Probably not, and stop calling me Shirley!
https://www.therichest.com/business/tec ... n-history/

And then there is this thread from 7 years ago, which seems to give the crown to the 747.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=767029
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
texl1649
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:09 pm

Heh. I had to go to the interweb to check my recollection. Per Wikipedia:

“The Convair 990A is still the fastest non-supersonic commercial transport to have ever been produced. During May 1961, one of the pre-production 990 prototype aircraft set a record of .97 Mach in level flight at an altitude of 22,500 ft., equivalent to a true airspeed of 675 mph.”

In level flight, no doubt empty, but still impressive. Probably not dispositive about anything, but that it was a heck of a (fuel burning) machine.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convair_990_Coronado
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:36 pm

This thread is a spectacular demonstration of how a.net can go wrong.

It's silly to say that one widebody is "faster" than another as if it's always true. Every widebody has a wide speed range in which it can operate, and they are mostly overlapping. For instance:

747-400
Long range cruise usually .79-.80
Typical cruise .84-.85
Mmo .92

787-9
Long range cruise usually .79-.80
Typical cruse .84-.85
Mmo .90

So the 747 is certified to fly faster than the 787 but won't typically do so (it takes a LOT of extra fuel to go a bit faster).

Real-life cruise speeds are determined by many factors and vary widely.
 
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CobraKai
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:33 pm

I'd actually like to know what constitutes this as a "record." Is it the airport pair, city pair, or something else? Also, I saw nothing in the article excluding GA.

I feel like in my biz aviation days we used to have Citation Xs go NYC-LON more quickly than this (usually TEB-LTN, but I am sure we hit most airport pairs).
 
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lugie
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Re: Norwegian 787 sets record for quickest subsonic transatlantic flight

Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:26 pm

LupineChemist wrote:
Yeah, winds are intense lately. I did PHL-MAD in a shade over 6 hours yesterday. Easily an hour less than normal.


I flew PTY-MAD last week and we clocked in at just under 9 hours for a flight of 5,100miles.
Granted, we took off pretty much on time (liftoff 15 minutes after STD) but still, arrival was almost an entire hour before STA.
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