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LTenEleven
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Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:00 am

After the previously announced closure of Wizz Air's Lublin base this coming summer, the airline has now announced it will also close its Prague base. Flights from there to Eilat, Tel Aviv, Reykjavik, Milan Bergamo, Venice Treviso and Naples will no longer be offered from mid-June.

Flights to London Luton, Bari and Kutaisi will continue with aircraft based delsewhere.

There are not many Wizz Air single aircraft bases left. Is it only Varna now?

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PatrickZ80
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:06 am

I guess now that they've discovered western Europe as a more profitable market the least profitable bases in eastern Europe are closing. They need the aircraft elsewhere.

However, I suspect these destinations won't be unserved for long. Ryanair will jump at the opportunity. Only Keflavik I got doubts about since Ryanair doesn't fly to Iceland, but there's a first for everything.
 
LTenEleven
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:09 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
I guess now that they've discovered western Europe as a more profitable market the least profitable bases in eastern Europe are closing. They need the aircraft elsewhere.

However, I suspect these destinations won't be unserved for long. Ryanair will jump at the opportunity. Only Keflavik I got doubts about since Ryanair doesn't fly to Iceland, but there's a first for everything.


Ryanair already serves Prague-Bergamo.

Wizz Air are getting plenty of aircraft deliveries so I am not sure it is a question of needing aircraft, but rather seeking the most profitable allocation of resources (which is not that different actually).
 
LTenEleven
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:30 pm

Now Wizz Air will also be closing their Kosice base from May 2018:

https://spectator.sme.sk/c/20756556/wiz ... osice.html

That is the 3rd base to be closed this year.
 
pdp
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:55 pm

Looks like they’re bolstering successful bases and closing marginal ones. I love Lublin to bits (it’s five minutes from the girlfriends house), but it’s very small and has poor connections to everywhere outside the voivodeship domestically.
 
Blerg
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:00 pm

There is definitely a shift in their operations. Up until recently they were no different than your average eastern European bus company shuttling expats between East and West.
They are expanding beyond their comfort zone with new flights from Larnaca, Athens, Vienna and Milan. I am still waiting to see what becomes of their Vienna base, especially with flights to Dortmund and Rome.
 
LTenEleven
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:22 pm

Forgotten from the initial post is also the Targu Mures based aircraft being reassigned in June 2018 (but has not actually operated from there since 2016 when the runway was closed for renovation).

-
Lublin - May
Prague - May
Kosice - May
Targu Mures - June (but in fact since 2016)
 
SCQ83
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:31 pm

Blerg wrote:
There is definitely a shift in their operations. Up until recently they were no different than your average eastern European bus company shuttling expats between East and West.
They are expanding beyond their comfort zone with new flights from Larnaca, Athens, Vienna and Milan. I am still waiting to see what becomes of their Vienna base, especially with flights to Dortmund and Rome.


I don't think Prague can be categorised as an "Eastern European bus company shuttling expats between East and West" style operation.

Czech Republic is wealthy enough not to have a massive diaspora in Western Europe, such as Romania or Ukraine. Probably as today, ATH is more a "VFR shuttler" than PRG.

Prague is also one of the most visited cities in Europe. I suspect those flights from TLV, TSF or BGY to Prague catered Czech residents/VFR as well as Israeli or Italian tourists to Prague.
 
Blerg
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:22 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
There is definitely a shift in their operations. Up until recently they were no different than your average eastern European bus company shuttling expats between East and West.
They are expanding beyond their comfort zone with new flights from Larnaca, Athens, Vienna and Milan. I am still waiting to see what becomes of their Vienna base, especially with flights to Dortmund and Rome.


I don't think Prague can be categorised as an "Eastern European bus company shuttling expats between East and West" style operation.

Czech Republic is wealthy enough not to have a massive diaspora in Western Europe, such as Romania or Ukraine. Probably as today, ATH is more a "VFR shuttler" than PRG.

Prague is also one of the most visited cities in Europe. I suspect those flights from TLV, TSF or BGY to Prague catered Czech residents/VFR as well as Israeli or Italian tourists to Prague.


There is more to the Czech Republic than just Prague. Overall the capital city might be better off but it's not like those living outside of it are swimming in cash. In 2016 the Czech Republic ranked 20th in the EU in terms of salaries. That means only seven countries ranked behind them. Even though salaries have been growing so has the cost of living.

Your comment on Athens is invalid because Greece was always a 'VFR shuttler.' The country only started to develop recently and I am especially referring to areas outside of Athens and Thessaloniki. That's why there are such massive Greek communities in New York, Chicago, Sydney, Paris, London ...
 
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holcakker
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:21 pm

WRO, KUT, IAS, KIV, VAR, DEB, SBZ are one aircraft bases. For now.
 
SC430
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:35 pm

This is an airline operating 88 aircraft with 281 on order. I smell deferrals on the horizon.
 
Blerg
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:45 pm

SC430 wrote:
This is an airline operating 88 aircraft with 281 on order. I smell deferrals on the horizon.


That or more bases in western Europe. I bet MXP is next on the list.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:46 pm

Blerg wrote:
There is more to the Czech Republic than just Prague. Overall the capital city might be better off but it's not like those living outside of it are swimming in cash. In 2016 the Czech Republic ranked 20th in the EU in terms of salaries. That means only seven countries ranked behind them. Even though salaries have been growing so has the cost of living.


Blerg wrote:
Your comment on Athens is invalid because Greece was always a 'VFR shuttler.' The country only started to develop recently and I am especially referring to areas outside of Athens and Thessaloniki. That's why there are such massive Greek communities in New York, Chicago, Sydney, Paris, London ...


Your analysis is incorrect and you are mixing apples and oranges for no reason.

Athens was not a "VFR shuttler" for Europe since largely the 1970s with the last waves of migration to Germany or London. Only in the last 10 years post-World Financial Crisis (and post-Greek crisis) a new wave of young Greeks (with obviously strong links to Greece since they were born and lived there for at least 18-25 years of their lives) moved to Europe to get a job. So this kind of new Greek VFR is very similar to the Eastern Europe VFR flows to Western Europe. Those are people who migrated already in the era of Ryanair and Skype, live 2-3 hours flight from their home country and travel a few times a year back home in this era of 30 EUR low-cost tickets. Those are the kind of links that explain the million Ryanair or Wizzair routes from Poland to the UK, and now a surge in flights from Spain, Greece or Portugal to Western Europe (of course in those 3 cases, those countries are also tourism destinations for Northern Europeans; so it is a win-win for companies like Ryanair).

This kind of diaspora has nothing to do with Greeks living in the US in Australia for decades, that might travel (maybe) once a year in summer to their homeland, and probably second generations will have much weaker links if any. And obviously Wizzair couldn't care less about this Greek diaspora in New York or Sydney since it has no relation with their business model.

As for the Czechs, you seem to be also wrong. My own experience is that you rarely encounter Czechs anywhere in Western Europe and for instance this article for an EU foundation goes in the same line:

https://www.euractiv.com/section/centra ... or-czechs/

This is a 2009 article (just before the GFC), but considering since 2009 Eastern European economies fared overall better than Western Europe, I can't see why numbers should have increased. So if those figures are correct, only 80,000 Czechs lived elsewhere in the EU (and most of them in driving-distance countries like Germany or Austria) which doesn't seem like a big number to support a "plane VFR shuttle" operation in PRG like the cases of Poland, Latvia, Romania or Bulgaria.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:01 pm

Blerg wrote:
SC430 wrote:
This is an airline operating 88 aircraft with 281 on order. I smell deferrals on the horizon.


That or more bases in western Europe. I bet MXP is next on the list.


Earlier on there have also been rumours about them starting a base in Eindhoven. It didn't turn out to be true then, but who knows what the future will bring?

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1381819
 
LTenEleven
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:13 pm

holcakker wrote:
WRO, KUT, IAS, KIV, VAR, DEB, SBZ are one aircraft bases. For now.


By this summer, the only one aircraft bases will be Chisinau, Debrecen and Varna.
 
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eurowings
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:17 pm

They posted on Facebook about a month ago that they were recruiting in Prague for their Luton and Vienna bases so I am guessing that some of the Prague crews may go to those bases if they don't leave the company.
"Freddie Laker may be at peace with his Maker, but he is persona non grata with IATA."- HRH Duke of Edinburgh
 
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eurowings
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:22 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
As for the Czechs, you seem to be also wrong. My own experience is that you rarely encounter Czechs anywhere in Western Europe and for instance this article for an EU foundation goes in the same line:

https://www.euractiv.com/section/centra ... or-czechs/

This is a 2009 article (just before the GFC), but considering since 2009 Eastern European economies fared overall better than Western Europe, I can't see why numbers should have increased. So if those figures are correct, only 80,000 Czechs lived elsewhere in the EU (and most of them in driving-distance countries like Germany or Austria) which doesn't seem like a big number to support a "plane VFR shuttle" operation in PRG like the cases of Poland, Latvia, Romania or Bulgaria.


It would make sense. If you look at the UK-Prague market for instance, some of the largest players are easyJet and Jet2 who are very much focused on UK originating traffic and not Central/Eastern European VFR airlines. I am sure they both carry a sizeable number of Czechs but the routes seem more aimed at inbound tourism to Prague.
"Freddie Laker may be at peace with his Maker, but he is persona non grata with IATA."- HRH Duke of Edinburgh
 
Blerg
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:28 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
There is more to the Czech Republic than just Prague. Overall the capital city might be better off but it's not like those living outside of it are swimming in cash. In 2016 the Czech Republic ranked 20th in the EU in terms of salaries. That means only seven countries ranked behind them. Even though salaries have been growing so has the cost of living.


Blerg wrote:
Your comment on Athens is invalid because Greece was always a 'VFR shuttler.' The country only started to develop recently and I am especially referring to areas outside of Athens and Thessaloniki. That's why there are such massive Greek communities in New York, Chicago, Sydney, Paris, London ...


Your analysis is incorrect and you are mixing apples and oranges for no reason.

Athens was not a "VFR shuttler" for Europe since largely the 1970s with the last waves of migration to Germany or London. Only in the last 10 years post-World Financial Crisis (and post-Greek crisis) a new wave of young Greeks (with obviously strong links to Greece since they were born and lived there for at least 18-25 years of their lives) moved to Europe to get a job. So this kind of new Greek VFR is very similar to the Eastern Europe VFR flows to Western Europe. Those are people who migrated already in the era of Ryanair and Skype, live 2-3 hours flight from their home country and travel a few times a year back home in this era of 30 EUR low-cost tickets. Those are the kind of links that explain the million Ryanair or Wizzair routes from Poland to the UK, and now a surge in flights from Spain, Greece or Portugal to Western Europe (of course in those 3 cases, those countries are also tourism destinations for Northern Europeans; so it is a win-win for companies like Ryanair).

This kind of diaspora has nothing to do with Greeks living in the US in Australia for decades, that might travel (maybe) once a year in summer to their homeland, and probably second generations will have much weaker links if any. And obviously Wizzair couldn't care less about this Greek diaspora in New York or Sydney since it has no relation with their business model.

As for the Czechs, you seem to be also wrong. My own experience is that you rarely encounter Czechs anywhere in Western Europe and for instance this article for an EU foundation goes in the same line:

https://www.euractiv.com/section/centra ... or-czechs/

This is a 2009 article (just before the GFC), but considering since 2009 Eastern European economies fared overall better than Western Europe, I can't see why numbers should have increased. So if those figures are correct, only 80,000 Czechs lived elsewhere in the EU (and most of them in driving-distance countries like Germany or Austria) which doesn't seem like a big number to support a "plane VFR shuttle" operation in PRG like the cases of Poland, Latvia, Romania or Bulgaria.


I myself am partly Greek so I think I should clear some things for you. Greece was still a relatively poor country in the 1980s and it was only in the 1990s that the whole country started to actively develop outside the big cities. Mind you, in the 1980s places like Evoia, which are relatively close to Athens, barely had any roads outside the big cities (like Chalkida). Paved roads throughout the countryside were first built during the Greek military dictatorship.

A catalyst in the development of the Greek economy was the collapse of the Eastern Bloc as well as Yugoslavia. Greek companies were among the first to enter these new markets which meant that there was additional capital inflow during the decade. The world economic crisis destroyed both Greece and the rest of the Balkans meaning that local companies had to withdraw from most of these markets in addition to downsizing their domestic operations.
Unlike Poles, Czech or Hungarians, a lot of Greeks did not immediately feel the need to emigrate because they could always find temporary jobs closer to home in the Greek islands. Someone from Larissa could go to Rhodes, Mykonos, Crete... and still make a lot of money (by Greek standards) by working there five to six months.

Finally, once again you are wrong. Once the world economic crisis hit, a large number of Greeks emigrated to Australia, Cyprus, Canada, the US and interestingly enough... Turkey. They did this because most of them had a cousin in Sydney, an uncle in Melbourne or some distant relatives running a restaurant in Chicago. Problem was that by the time most were forced to leave Greece (this did not happen immediately) it was next to impossible to find a job in western Europe. All in all, most of the Greek communities in far away places are not only made up of those who moved there in the 1960s, 1970s or the 1980s.

As for the Czechs, according to official government data (available online) there are roughly 45.000 Czechs in the UK and 40.000 Czechs in Austria. These numbers are from the Austrian and UK national statistics. I couldn't find their numbers for France, Belgium or the Netherlands but I am sure they are somewhere between 30.000 and 50.000.
This goes to show that there a bit more than 80.000 Czechs living abroad. Like I wrote earlier, there is more to the Czech Republic than Prague. Those living outside the popular tourist destinations do not swim in cash and they can't be considered as rich. After all, there is a reason why CZ ranks 20/27 in terms of salaries.
 
Blerg
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:31 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
SC430 wrote:
This is an airline operating 88 aircraft with 281 on order. I smell deferrals on the horizon.


That or more bases in western Europe. I bet MXP is next on the list.


Earlier on there have also been rumours about them starting a base in Eindhoven. It didn't turn out to be true then, but who knows what the future will bring?

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1381819


The reason why I mentioned MXP is because they have been moving there some of their Bergamo flights. Isn't EIN full at the moment? Maybe that's one of the reasons why they decided against opening a base there.
 
devron
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:02 pm

SC430 wrote:
This is an airline operating 88 aircraft with 281 on order. I smell deferrals on the horizon.


Really I think they can't get these planes fast enough
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:19 pm

SC430 wrote:
This is an airline operating 88 aircraft with 281 on order. I smell deferrals on the horizon.


And you base that on what exactly?
@DadCelo
 
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holcakker
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:01 pm

SC430 wrote:
This is an airline operating 88 aircraft with 281 on order.

89 with another 8 to be delivered until the end of April.
 
OlympicATH
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:24 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
Czech Republic is wealthy enough not to have a massive diaspora in Western Europe, such as Romania or Ukraine. Probably as today, ATH is more a "VFR shuttler" than PRG.


Slightly off topic but this entire speech is incorrect to say the least. Yes Greece has been through a rough decade largely due to political mismanagement but it has always been part of the Western bloc, it joined the EU in 1981 and has been a high income economy for decades. The Czech Republic has made terrific progress but it is a different story altogether.

I am Greek and I live in London. Like most of the young Greeks that left the country in the past few years, I have a university education and a decent job. I fly to Greece regularly and on Aegean or BA. Sometimes in business class. I use Ryanair or easyJet sporadically depending on schedules and prices and I generally avoid them. I think Wizz will fail on Luton-Athens. The flight leaves super early from Luton and well... it's Wizz. From Luton. London-Athens is just not an Eastern European shuttle as they will soon realise.
 
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hippogryphe
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:20 am

OlympicATH wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
Czech Republic is wealthy enough not to have a massive diaspora in Western Europe, such as Romania or Ukraine. Probably as today, ATH is more a "VFR shuttler" than PRG.


Slightly off topic but this entire speech is incorrect to say the least. Yes Greece has been through a rough decade largely due to political mismanagement but it has always been part of the Western bloc, it joined the EU in 1981 and has been a high income economy for decades. The Czech Republic has made terrific progress but it is a different story altogether.

I am Greek and I live in London. Like most of the young Greeks that left the country in the past few years, I have a university education and a decent job. I fly to Greece regularly and on Aegean or BA. Sometimes in business class. I use Ryanair or easyJet sporadically depending on schedules and prices and I generally avoid them. I think Wizz will fail on Luton-Athens. The flight leaves super early from Luton and well... it's Wizz. From Luton. London-Athens is just not an Eastern European shuttle as they will soon realise.



You're right the Czech Republic is a different story altogether. GDP (PPP) per capita in the Czech Republic is now $35,000, to Greece's $28,000, that's a fifth less. In nominal terms, the two countries are about on par (the Czechs ahead by a nose) but the Czech standard of living (and the amount of disposable money they have to splash out on discretionary air travel) is now pretty clearly higher.

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... per_capita, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... per_capita)
 
SCQ83
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:24 pm

hippogryphe wrote:
You're right the Czech Republic is a different story altogether. GDP (PPP) per capita in the Czech Republic is now $35,000, to Greece's $28,000, that's a fifth less. In nominal terms, the two countries are about on par (the Czechs ahead by a nose) but the Czech standard of living (and the amount of disposable money they have to splash out on discretionary air travel) is now pretty clearly higher.

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... per_capita, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... per_capita)


Not to mention unemployment rate:

Czech Republic: 2.3% (lowest in the EU)
Greece: 21.7% (highest in the EU)

I also suspect that Czechs living abroad choose cities like Munich or Vienna which are driving distance from anywhere in the country. And of course you will have Czechs in London or Paris... like you have Swiss or Norwegian living in those cities.

But like some Greek posters here reminder us, the average Greek migrant (that is the right name) in Europe today flies business class from LHR. Greeks are nothing like those "poor" Eastern Europeans.
 
Blerg
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:31 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
hippogryphe wrote:
You're right the Czech Republic is a different story altogether. GDP (PPP) per capita in the Czech Republic is now $35,000, to Greece's $28,000, that's a fifth less. In nominal terms, the two countries are about on par (the Czechs ahead by a nose) but the Czech standard of living (and the amount of disposable money they have to splash out on discretionary air travel) is now pretty clearly higher.

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... per_capita, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... per_capita)


Not to mention unemployment rate:

Czech Republic: 2.3% (lowest in the EU)
Greece: 21.7% (highest in the EU)

I also suspect that Czechs living abroad choose cities like Munich or Vienna which are driving distance from anywhere in the country. And of course you will have Czechs in London or Paris... like you have Swiss or Norwegian living in those cities.

But like some Greek posters here reminder us, the average Greek migrant (that is the right name) in Europe today flies business class from LHR. Greeks are nothing like those "poor" Eastern Europeans.


Are you suspecting that just like you suspected there are a total of 80.000 Czechs living outside the Czech Republic?
 
SCQ83
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:41 pm

Blerg wrote:
Are you suspecting that just like you suspected there are a total of 80.000 Czechs living outside the Czech Republic?


80,000 citizens out of a 10 million people country seems reasonable, specially when that people because of having an EU passport can live in about 30 different countries as they wish (EU + CH + Iceland + Norway). Considering a lot of them live in driving-distance countries (Slovakia, Germany, Austria), there is not a business case for a "VFR shuttle operation" which was your (wrong) message before.

Switzerland (with less than 7 million) has 750,000 Swiss citizens living abroad. Does it mean Swiss (or easyJet CH) acts as a VFR shuttle operation for Swiss living abroad? No.

https://www.eda.admin.ch/countries/chin ... broad.html

So my point is still valid. Wizzair from PRG did not work as a "VFR shuttle operation" (such in Romania, Poland, Latvia, Ukraine), because Prague or the Czech Republic does not "export" workers to the rest of Europe in a major scale. In that sense, ATH (obviously ATH is also a major tourism destination) has for W6 very likely more VFR Greek traffic than PRG had VFR Czech traffic.
 
Blerg
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:19 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Are you suspecting that just like you suspected there are a total of 80.000 Czechs living outside the Czech Republic?


80,000 citizens out of a 10 million people country seems reasonable, specially when that people because of having an EU passport can live in about 30 different countries as they wish (EU + CH + Iceland + Norway). Considering a lot of them live in driving-distance countries (Slovakia, Germany, Austria), there is not a business case for a "VFR shuttle operation" which was your (wrong) message before.

Switzerland (with less than 7 million) has 750,000 Swiss citizens living abroad. Does it mean Swiss (or easyJet CH) acts as a VFR shuttle operation for Swiss living abroad? No.

https://www.eda.admin.ch/countries/chin ... broad.html

So my point is still valid. Wizzair from PRG did not work as a "VFR shuttle operation" (such in Romania, Poland, Latvia, Ukraine), because Prague or the Czech Republic does not "export" workers to the rest of Europe in a major scale. In that sense, ATH (obviously ATH is also a major tourism destination) has for W6 very likely more VFR Greek traffic than PRG had VFR Czech traffic.


The 80.000 number you presented (and which you still use) is wrong. I presented you with the official data which showed that there are roughly 80.000 Czechs living in both Austria and the UK. According to the 2001 census in France there were 50.200 Czechs living there while in 2009 the ONS estimated that this number rose to 90.000.
France and the UK alone bring the number of Czechs to around 130.000 which isn't negligible and which, in theory, should be enough to sustain Wizz Air's shuttle business.

We get a lot of Czechs here in Greece and a large number of them (or most?) come by bus ... even to some 'remote' places like Zakynthos. Maybe they do the same when heading to France or Italy? Another reason why Wizz Air might have struggled is because PRG is incomparably more expensive than most other airports they fly to.

As for Switzerland, I am sure a large number of these Swiss nationals actually work in neighboring France or Germany so the situation is hardly comparable. The same way you argued for the Czechs who live in neighboring Austria or Germany.

Finally, of course Athens will have more VFR traffic than Prague. Have you bothered to compare the population in the municipal areas where the airports are located?

Athens: 3,781,274
Prague: 2,156,097

Hmm ... now that I think of it, maybe it's time to start looking at the Austrian diaspora and the number of workers they export in order to make sense of the VIE expansion. Fact remains that ATH is more similar to VIE than to PRG or BUD. If I were not right then it wouldn't take Wizz Air this long to expand in Athens. They would have done it the same time they launched Riga, Katowice, Prague, Sofia, Bucharest...
 
filipair
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:27 pm

The estimates provided earlier are all pretty outdated, especially for Czech citizens in Germany.

Per this Pew Research study updated in 2017, these are the top 5 countries of residence for Czech people abroad:

Germany 550,000
Slovakia 90,000
United States 70,000
Austria 60,000
United Kingdom 50,000

http://www.pewglobal.org/2018/02/28/glo ... &date=2017
 
SC430
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:37 pm

gatibosgru wrote:
SC430 wrote:
This is an airline operating 88 aircraft with 281 on order. I smell deferrals on the horizon.


And you base that on what exactly?


Common sense and simple arithmetic.
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:44 pm

SC430 wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:
SC430 wrote:
This is an airline operating 88 aircraft with 281 on order. I smell deferrals on the horizon.


And you base that on what exactly?


Common sense and simple arithmetic.


Gotcha, so just an opinion, not an analysis.
@DadCelo
 
ODwyerPW
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:10 pm

devron wrote:
SC430 wrote:
This is an airline operating 88 aircraft with 281 on order. I smell deferrals on the horizon.


Really I think they can't get these planes fast enough


True, perhaps they can't get the next 50 fast enough... but what do they do with the next 231 that will come on line after if they are closing bases now?
learning never stops.
 
P1aneMad
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:46 pm

gatibosgru wrote:
SC430 wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:

And you base that on what exactly?


Common sense and simple arithmetic.


Gotcha, so just an opinion, not an analysis.

Riiiiight, you need to make a detailed analysis to figure out that an airline with 88 fairly young aircraft will have some difficulty growing its operations by 450% in order to absorb all the aircraft it has on order. :banghead: :roll: :lol:
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:10 pm

P1aneMad wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:
SC430 wrote:

Common sense and simple arithmetic.


Gotcha, so just an opinion, not an analysis.

Riiiiight, you need to make a detailed analysis to figure out that an airline with 88 fairly young aircraft will have some difficulty growing its operations by 450% in order to absorb all the aircraft it has on order. :banghead: :roll: :lol:


Again, based on what data? Do you know how many of those birds will be for replacement? Do you know how many for expansion? Do you know how many are going to be delivered per year? I can throw out some random idea and call it true but without facts I don't expect anyone to take my word for it.
@DadCelo
 
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hippogryphe
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:38 pm

Blerg wrote:
We get a lot of Czechs here in Greece and a large number of them (or most?) come by bus ... even to some 'remote' places like Zakynthos. Maybe they do the same when heading to France or Italy? Another reason why Wizz Air might have struggled is because PRG is incomparably more expensive than most other airports they fly to.


Czechs have a pretty strong tendency to drive or take bus tours on holiday because they like to pack frankly an incredible amount of stuff with them. Pretty hard to carry ten days worth of booze on an LCC flight. The bus tour culture is also traditional from the previous era, and has a particular position in Czech culture (there is a pretty famous Czech "dramedy" film from a decade or so back about this). As they get richer, flying and further/more expensive destinations are getting more popular but old habits, especially economical ones, die hard.
 
devron
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:48 pm

ODwyerPW wrote:
devron wrote:
SC430 wrote:
This is an airline operating 88 aircraft with 281 on order. I smell deferrals on the horizon.


Really I think they can't get these planes fast enough


True, perhaps they can't get the next 50 fast enough... but what do they do with the next 231 that will come on line after if they are closing bases now?


remember they ordered most of these in November of last year (i.e. 3 months ago) either management is total in the blue or they are making significant profits that they want to boost even more with this move. Vienna is a unique opportunity with air berlin / niki gone. Now or never
 
alan3
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:13 pm

Will we see a sharp reduction in their (and FR's) UK flights due to Brexit? Seems they have a lot of flights from the UK to various cities in Eastern Europe, presumably to commute emigrants living in Britain to home and back.
 
Blerg
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:13 pm

Just like Ryanair had to expand from western Europe into eastern Europe, Wizz Air had to do the same just in the opposite direction. All these new planes that they have on order will be used to further expand in western Europe. The real question is where next after Luton and Vienna.
 
marcelh
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:51 pm

SC430 wrote:
This is an airline operating 88 aircraft with 281 on order. I smell deferrals on the horizon.


I smell some ignorance.
Those 281 planes are for growth and replacement of the oldest planes. Furthermore those new planes will be delivered in an 9 year timeframe, so net growth will be approximately 2 planes per month on average.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:19 pm

alan3 wrote:
Will we see a sharp reduction in their (and FR's) UK flights due to Brexit? Seems they have a lot of flights from the UK to various cities in Eastern Europe, presumably to commute emigrants living in Britain to home and back.


That's what they got their UK division founded for, so they can keep their Luton base and probably expand to other British airports. Ryanair is also setting up a UK division, but Wizzair is further in that.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:21 pm

Blerg wrote:
Just like Ryanair had to expand from western Europe into eastern Europe, Wizz Air had to do the same just in the opposite direction. All these new planes that they have on order will be used to further expand in western Europe. The real question is where next after Luton and Vienna.


There have already been rumours about an Eindhoven base. This would make sense as Eindhoven is one of the fastest growing airports in Europe. Also Milan Malpensa was mentioned as a possible base location.
 
Blerg
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:55 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Just like Ryanair had to expand from western Europe into eastern Europe, Wizz Air had to do the same just in the opposite direction. All these new planes that they have on order will be used to further expand in western Europe. The real question is where next after Luton and Vienna.


There have already been rumours about an Eindhoven base. This would make sense as Eindhoven is one of the fastest growing airports in Europe. Also Milan Malpensa was mentioned as a possible base location.


EIN is getting quite congested so it might be one of the reasons why they gave up on the idea. Maybe Dortmund could be high on their list given that it's a similar scenario as with Luton, lot's of flights going there but there is no base.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:39 am

Blerg wrote:
EIN is getting quite congested so it might be one of the reasons why they gave up on the idea. Maybe Dortmund could be high on their list given that it's a similar scenario as with Luton, lot's of flights going there but there is no base.


I think it is interesting to note that despite the "huge Czech diaspora", and DTM being Wizzair's VFR airport in Western Europe, they have never flown DTM-PRG. :) or anywhere else DTM-Czech Republic (e.g. DTM-BRQ).

Regarding DTM, IMO the airport is not competitive against DUS or CGN. It is not central to the Ruhr-Rhein region and public transport links are bad compared to DUS/CGN (with direct train access). Also the area around Dortmund is not particularly wealthy. So Wizzair could open a base there, but their services to Western Europe would be quite limited because the market prefers DUS or CGN (which btw is a major Ryanair base).

DTM-VIE IMO is a different story because VIE is a German-speaking capital, meaning strong traffic between Western Germany and Vienna and probably there is a Dortmund area traffic base. But trying many destinations like Stockholm, Reykjavik or Madrid from DTM like they have started in VIE? I don't see that being successful unless they just plan a small DTM base and create a niche there.
 
Blerg
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:31 am

SCQ83 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
EIN is getting quite congested so it might be one of the reasons why they gave up on the idea. Maybe Dortmund could be high on their list given that it's a similar scenario as with Luton, lot's of flights going there but there is no base.


I think it is interesting to note that despite the "huge Czech diaspora", and DTM being Wizzair's VFR airport in Western Europe, they have never flown DTM-PRG. :) or anywhere else DTM-Czech Republic (e.g. DTM-BRQ).

Regarding DTM, IMO the airport is not competitive against DUS or CGN. It is not central to the Ruhr-Rhein region and public transport links are bad compared to DUS/CGN (with direct train access). Also the area around Dortmund is not particularly wealthy. So Wizzair could open a base there, but their services to Western Europe would be quite limited because the market prefers DUS or CGN (which btw is a major Ryanair base).

DTM-VIE IMO is a different story because VIE is a German-speaking capital, meaning strong traffic between Western Germany and Vienna and probably there is a Dortmund area traffic base. But trying many destinations like Stockholm, Reykjavik or Madrid from DTM like they have started in VIE? I don't see that being successful unless they just plan a small DTM base and create a niche there.



Hehe true regarding the Czech Republic.

My personal opinion is that MXP has the biggest chance of becoming their next hub as they have been shifting a lot of their Bergamo flights there. The only reason why I mentioned DTM is because it's usually one of their first destination out of any eastern European city. It could be similar to Luton in the sense that they would open a base, move most of their 'eastern' routes to the crews and planes based there and then cautiously and slowly expand into their non-traditional markets as was the case with routes such as Luton-Athens/Larnaca/Bari ...

I think Vienna will be their biggest test so far. Wizz Air gives their routes one year to perform and improve. Those that perform well have their fares increased while those that don't remain unchanged. I think a five plane base in Vienna is not the end of it. I have a feeling there will be at least another 2 Airbuses stationed there in the next two years.
Lufthansa will not just sit idle and let Wizz Air eat its (Sacher) cake. Unlike a few years ago when they had to deal with Ryanair, these days they have Eurowings to strike back and fight fire with fire. Vienna will be, above everything else, a very expensive battle.

p.s. bad news ahead of Wizz Air's VIE base opening.

http://atwonline.com/labor/austrian-air ... gotiations
 
SCQ83
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:48 am

Blerg wrote:
The only reason why I mentioned DTM is because it's usually one of their first destination out of any eastern European city. It could be similar to Luton in the sense that they would open a base, move most of their 'eastern' routes to the crews and planes based there and then cautiously and slowly expand into their non-traditional markets as was the case with routes such as Luton-Athens/Larnaca/Bari ...


It is not comparable. They have made DTM their "Eastern European" base but many of those destinations have no competition from CGN or DUS (or just with legacies at much higher prices). Places like Tuzla, Kharkiv, Lviv... and even in some places Wizzair also duplicates those destinations from CGN.

They could never replicate LTN or VIE in DTM. Maybe a few weekly flights to holiday destinations and some major cities might work, but nothing else. For instance, one daily to MAD like in VIE? That would never work, because residents in Rhein-Ruhr will head to DUS/CGN where there is a lot of low-cost offer (Ryanair, Eurowings, Iberia Express).

So they could make DTM a base and add some random 1-2-3 weekly flights to Larnaca or Málaga or some European capital (Madrid, Malpensa, Stockholm), but not much more in order to make a "Wizzair Western German hub". The market is not there.
 
Blerg
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:24 am

SCQ83 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
The only reason why I mentioned DTM is because it's usually one of their first destination out of any eastern European city. It could be similar to Luton in the sense that they would open a base, move most of their 'eastern' routes to the crews and planes based there and then cautiously and slowly expand into their non-traditional markets as was the case with routes such as Luton-Athens/Larnaca/Bari ...


It is not comparable. They have made DTM their "Eastern European" base but many of those destinations have no competition from CGN or DUS (or just with legacies at much higher prices). Places like Tuzla, Kharkiv, Lviv... and even in some places Wizzair also duplicates those destinations from CGN.

They could never replicate LTN or VIE in DTM. Maybe a few weekly flights to holiday destinations and some major cities might work, but nothing else. For instance, one daily to MAD like in VIE? That would never work, because residents in Rhein-Ruhr will head to DUS/CGN where there is a lot of low-cost offer (Ryanair, Eurowings, Iberia Express).

So they could make DTM a base and add some random 1-2-3 weekly flights to Larnaca or Málaga or some European capital (Madrid, Malpensa, Stockholm), but not much more in order to make a "Wizzair Western German hub". The market is not there.


Don't see the point in bringing up VIE-MAD when I specifically said that they would rather copy the same scenario as in Luton. Dortmund airport has many, many links to eastern Europe, just like Luton does. I just checked online and the only non-Eastern European destinations they serve from LTN are: ATH, LCA, KEF, BRI and TLV. I am sure they could find five 'Western' destinations to serve from Dortmund in addition to the ones they currently serve.

Finally, as mentioned earlier, if I had to bet on where next Wizz will expand, my money wouldn't be on Dortmund but rather on Malpensa.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:30 am

Blerg wrote:
Don't see the point in bringing up VIE-MAD when I specifically said that they would rather copy the same scenario as in Luton. Dortmund airport has many, many links to eastern Europe, just like Luton does. I just checked online and the only non-Eastern European destinations they serve from LTN are: ATH, LCA, KEF, BRI and TLV. I am sure they could find five 'Western' destinations to serve from Dortmund in addition to the ones they currently serve.

Finally, as mentioned earlier, if I had to bet on where next Wizz will expand, my money wouldn't be on Dortmund but rather on Malpensa.


The reason to open a base at LTN is to serve Western European destinations. To serve Eastern European destinations, they have their Eastern European bases with lower costs.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... on-in-s18/

LTN (which is a London airport) expansion is quite ambitious. 1 daily flight to Larnaca, Athens or Reykjavik. No need to mention Dortmund could never support that kind of service. So could DTM become a "small" Wizzair base? It could. Could they replicate LTN? No. If they wanted to replicate something like LTN, they would need to head to DUS or CGN.
 
Blerg
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:13 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Don't see the point in bringing up VIE-MAD when I specifically said that they would rather copy the same scenario as in Luton. Dortmund airport has many, many links to eastern Europe, just like Luton does. I just checked online and the only non-Eastern European destinations they serve from LTN are: ATH, LCA, KEF, BRI and TLV. I am sure they could find five 'Western' destinations to serve from Dortmund in addition to the ones they currently serve.

Finally, as mentioned earlier, if I had to bet on where next Wizz will expand, my money wouldn't be on Dortmund but rather on Malpensa.


The reason to open a base at LTN is to serve Western European destinations. To serve Eastern European destinations, they have their Eastern European bases with lower costs.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... on-in-s18/

LTN (which is a London airport) expansion is quite ambitious. 1 daily flight to Larnaca, Athens or Reykjavik. No need to mention Dortmund could never support that kind of service. So could DTM become a "small" Wizzair base? It could. Could they replicate LTN? No. If they wanted to replicate something like LTN, they would need to head to DUS or CGN.


I did not say they would copy LTN, I said they would use the same principle of expansion. That is by keeping an extensive eastern European network while slowly and carefully expanding their western European offer.

As for LTN-LCA, they don't stand a chance there. They are going to be butchered by Cobalt which has positioned itself as THE airline in Cyprus. If Norwegian from Gatwick failed then I don't see what novelty Wizz Air will bring in order to differentiate themselves from the rest of the gang already flying from LON.
 
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holcakker
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:26 pm

Blerg wrote:
As for LTN-LCA, they don't stand a chance there. They are going to be butchered by Cobalt which has positioned itself as THE airline in Cyprus. If Norwegian from Gatwick failed then I don't see what novelty Wizz Air will bring in order to differentiate themselves from the rest of the gang already flying from LON.


Wizz Air with its 14 years of history is a fossil compared to Cobalt, not a novelty. They will only be as much "butchered" as on their other 13 routes they already fly from LCA.
 
r2rho
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Re: Wizz Air closing bases incl. Prague

Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:10 pm

Regarding DTM, IMO the airport is not competitive against DUS or CGN. It is not central to the Ruhr-Rhein region and public transport links are bad compared to DUS/CGN (with direct train access).

Agree but there is one more - decisive- factor that makes DTM unattractive as a base: a 10pm curfew, which killed the U2 base back in the day.

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