slcdeltarumd11
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Re: DL and AA resume IROP ticketing and baggage agreement

Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:23 pm

After Delta's recent meltdowns this is finally something responsible. Its good they are doing something they deserve credit for that.

I don't think it's too big a deal if you were travelling between large airports exclusively, but this is a huge deal if your start or end was a smaller airport.

Congrats for Delta management to cave in, but this will really enhance the passenger experience during IROPs to smaller airports! Totally necessary
 
usflyer msp
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Re: DL and AA resume IROP ticketing and baggage agreement

Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:33 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
Let Delta humbly eat some of its peach pie.

Hopefully it has learned from its spectacular ops meltdowns that having ability to access other airline networks is helpful.


Even with its ops meltdowns, for 2017 Delta had a better on-time rate than AA (or WN or UA).

Data - objective facts - are our friends. viewtopic.php?t=1382691


True, but since so much of DL's capacity goes through ATL, if something goes awry in ATL it causes DL's entire system to meltdown. So when Delta has a bad day, it has a REALLY bad day that usually cascades into a couple of a bad days.
 
catiii
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Re: DL and AA resume IROP ticketing and baggage agreement

Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:34 pm

stlgph wrote:
n7371f wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
Let Delta humbly eat some of its peach pie.

Hopefully it has learned from its spectacular ops meltdowns that having ability to access other airline networks is helpful.


Umm...hate to tell you that internal numbers still show AA sends more passengers to DL than other way around.

And for what it's worth, DL decided against doing a similar cut-off with AS after the cessation of all marketing agreements, strictly because AS ops were reliable enough in SEA and other outposts that it made sense to continue interline.

Remember...UA agreed to pay DL a premium because of its raunch operations; AA refused, even though their ops were worse, on stats, than UA.

And the AA spokeswoman based out of ORD is a low-level Corp Comm person. I'd put little belief in her spin.


Leslie Scott isn't low level. AA poached her from Delta with a pretty sweet offer.

And she's great to drink with.

Just sayin.


Seconded wholeheartedly. Saying she is "low level" shows how little the OP actually knows.
 
IPFreely
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Re: DL and AA resume IROP ticketing and baggage agreement

Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:44 pm

alasizon wrote:
Correct, DL wanted a 5% premium over the existing agreement so both parties mutually agreed to end it. Having it back in place for IRROPs will certainly be a big help for outstations.


It will be interesting to see details of the new agreement if and when they get released or leaked. Delta’s multiple days-long meltdowns last year demonstrated the incompetence of Delta’s management in walking away from an interline agreement with AA. After it hurt DL more than it hurt AA to the point that DL had to go back and grovel, AA was in a position to demand their own 5% premium. Hopefully they did so.
 
toobz
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Re: DL and AA resume IROP ticketing and baggage agreement

Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:22 pm

lol I really am getting a good laugh from some of these armchair CEOs. Nobody knows the details. This is a positive for PAX. Let’s just keep it at that. It’s laughable to think that AA or any other airline could provide ANY kind of relief for DL in ATL when there’s a meltdown. Other airlines are just way too small to provide any help to DL in ATL.
 
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neomax
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Re: DL and AA resume IROP ticketing and baggage agreement

Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:24 pm

IPFreely wrote:
alasizon wrote:
Correct, DL wanted a 5% premium over the existing agreement so both parties mutually agreed to end it. Having it back in place for IRROPs will certainly be a big help for outstations.


It will be interesting to see details of the new agreement if and when they get released or leaked. Delta’s multiple days-long meltdowns last year demonstrated the incompetence of Delta’s management in walking away from an interline agreement with AA. After it hurt DL more than it hurt AA to the point that DL had to go back and grovel, AA was in a position to demand their own 5% premium. Hopefully they did so.


Karma is a :D
 
usflyer msp
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Re: DL and AA resume IROP ticketing and baggage agreement

Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:27 pm

toobz wrote:
lol I really am getting a good laugh from some of these armchair CEOs. Nobody knows the details. This is a positive for PAX. Let’s just keep it at that. It’s laughable to think that AA or any other airline could provide ANY kind of relief for DL in ATL when there’s a meltdown. Other airlines are just way too small to provide any help to DL in ATL.


Yes they can. The other carriers can take passengers at the outstations so they never have to go through ATL. This frees up seats for the ATL O/D passengers.
 
alasizon
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Re: DL and AA resume IROP ticketing and baggage agreement

Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:34 pm

toobz wrote:
lol I really am getting a good laugh from some of these armchair CEOs. Nobody knows the details. This is a positive for PAX. Let’s just keep it at that. It’s laughable to think that AA or any other airline could provide ANY kind of relief for DL in ATL when there’s a meltdown. Other airlines are just way too small to provide any help to DL in ATL.


This isn't about providing relief in the hubs, its about providing relief in the outstations to prevent those pax from ever reaching the afflicted hub(s). Within the hub there are numerous options and those options work a lot better if you can prevent people upline from being funneled into the hub.
Manager on Duty & Tower Planner
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: DL and AA resume IROP ticketing and baggage agreement

Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:43 pm

toobz wrote:
lol I really am getting a good laugh from some of these armchair CEOs. Nobody knows the details. This is a positive for PAX. Let’s just keep it at that. It’s laughable to think that AA or any other airline could provide ANY kind of relief for DL in ATL when there’s a meltdown. Other airlines are just way too small to provide any help to DL in ATL.


This is totally necessary for the passenger and does help ATL. Let's take the big electrical outage of recent as an example. To get from ATL-BTV Delta was a disaster on that route. People were stuck for days since it's a smaller airport and all of Delta's seats in were full. With AA you could get people to DCA, PHL, CLT on delta or any airline and and get them home on AA. It's a huge help to ATL and the network as a whole. The ATL passengers to smaller cities were stuck and the most hurt by this outage and the inability to rebook on AA was a true disaster.

This is a necessary but big win for flyers. Let's stop defending a bad decision by them and celebrate a good reversal ! This is good for AA flyers, delta flyers we all benefit especially those at smaller airports
 
TW870
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Re: DL and AA resume IROP ticketing and baggage agreement

Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:46 am

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
After Delta's recent meltdowns this is finally something responsible. Its good they are doing something they deserve credit for that.

I don't think it's too big a deal if you were travelling between large airports exclusively, but this is a huge deal if your start or end was a smaller airport.

Congrats for Delta management to cave in, but this will really enhance the passenger experience during IROPs to smaller airports! Totally necessary


Absolutely. The outstations are key. This will help keep my DAY-based colleagues and I loyal to Delta rather than merely price driven, because value exists in knowing that you can get re-routed on a multiplicity of carriers, which is not true on LCCs. At many small airports, the Delta gates are very close physically to other airlines' gates. If things get ugly last minute at DAY on a 7am outbound through DTW to LAX for example, the agents can literally yell over to the UA folks and get me on Chicago, or (now) call over to AA and get me on DFW.

Delta's hard-ball move last year was arrogant, because it threw individual loyal customers under the bus to prove a point about overall operational reliability. The policy change is a smart way to move on.
 
n7371f
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Re: DL and AA resume IROP ticketing and baggage agreement

Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:44 am

AA still buys tickets for customers on DL - as does DL on AA - under special circumstances and both airlines pay what you or I would off the street. This is all tracked. Yes the numbers are significantly lower than with a IROPS agreement but still in favor of DL.

And at DL at least, they've been running internal numbers/simulations for some time watching AA's operations (even you can do that) to see where the cancels & misconnects come from to emulate what would happen with a deal. And, yes, AA is running a better operation.

Some of you folks get so aroused at the DL angle. But when you're taking on 4x the number of customers that you are giving someone else - and some of these AA passengers who are re-accomodated are taking higher revenue from a customer who would book off the street and pay a far greater amount for their seat - it's business 101 to do what DL did. And, I would add, it may incrementally increase the business for DL as customers book away from AA and to DL because of the reliability - and the +/- press associated with it.

clrd4t8koff wrote:
n7371f wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
Let Delta humbly eat some of its peach pie.

Hopefully it has learned from its spectacular ops meltdowns that having ability to access other airline networks is helpful.


Umm...hate to tell you that internal numbers still show AA sends more passengers to DL than other way around.

And for what it's worth, DL decided against doing a similar cut-off with AS after the cessation of all marketing agreements, strictly because AS ops were reliable enough in SEA and other outposts that it made sense to continue interline.

Remember...UA agreed to pay DL a premium because of its raunch operations; AA refused, even though their ops were worse, on stats, than UA.

And the AA spokeswoman based out of ORD is a low-level Corp Comm person. I'd put little belief in her spin.


Please go back to eating some more humble peach pie. Seriously, how can numbers show that AA STILL sends more people to DL than the other way around when there hasn't been an interline agreement in place for almost 3 YEARS now. They can't send people to DL.

Independent of your assessment of the individual who put out the statement from AA, the fact remains that DL went crawling back to AA, not the other way around.
 
Egerton
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Re: DL and AA resume IROP ticketing and baggage agreement

Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:04 am

I am a bit baffled. It is my understanding that at British Airways, the scheduling of which aeroplanes go where is done overnight. If there are heavy loads to X and light loads to Y, within the A320x fleet BA can adjust which model will do the appropriate flight. Sometimes BA sends a 747 to Scotland at very short notice to clear a backlog. Of course this does not work well if the IT is down, or the weather forecasters have got it wrong!

Presumably this scheduling overnight works equally in the US? (I know the UK has less time zone issues than the US)
 
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hOMSaR
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Re: DL and AA resume IROP ticketing and baggage agreement

Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:20 pm

Egerton wrote:
I am a bit baffled. It is my understanding that at British Airways, the scheduling of which aeroplanes go where is done overnight. If there are heavy loads to X and light loads to Y, within the A320x fleet BA can adjust which model will do the appropriate flight. Sometimes BA sends a 747 to Scotland at very short notice to clear a backlog. Of course this does not work well if the IT is down, or the weather forecasters have got it wrong!

Presumably this scheduling overnight works equally in the US? (I know the UK has less time zone issues than the US)


It's a bit more complicated (and I don't know how different the US is from other countries in this regard), but assigning a type to a flight is usually done a couple months in advance, if not more. Granted, it can always change due to last-minute unforeseen circumstances, but it's not like they just have a bunch of planes on the ground and they decide the night before that one flight is going to be an A319 and another is going to be an A320.

Assigning specific frames is done a few days in advance, but can change any number of times before departure due to operational reasons (mechanical problems, other delays, etc.). However, I don't suspect that "heavy loads to X and light loads to Y" triggers an overnight type swap too often. Airlines have very finely calibrated algorithms that sell to the capacity they expect to need on a flight (with a little bit of an oversale allowance for last-minute cancellations, misconnects, etc.).

They also have to deal with the fact that when a plane gets to X (or Y), that plane may or may not be coming back to the same hub from which it departed. Therefore, every flight down the line on that same plane's rotation must also be able to accommodate the equipment swap (cutting capacity from a 320 to a 319 on the first flight of the day might work, but if you need the 320's capacity three flights later with no opportunity to swap back, then you're screwed). There's also the question of making sure you have the right number of flight attendants if a type crosses a threshold where an extra FA is needed, you then either need to reschedule somebody or call in someone on reserve to staff the larger plane. Not impossible, but it adds an extra complication.

In cases of IRROPS, some of those rules may go out the window, but a couple of things to consider then would be 1) if a major disruption (such as network outage or airport closure) occurs, then you're going to have so many people needing to get reaccommodated that you probably couldn't downgauge a flight anyway (you probably need all that capacity), and 2) does swapping around airplane assignments just set you up for further problems the next day when you could have otherwise run a normal operation (going back to the issue of what a plane's schedule is supposed to be on a given day)?

US carriers have such varied fleets and high load factors that, relatively speaking, it's not too often that you wind up being able to easily "trade" types between flights without too much of an impact anyway.
The plural of Airbus is Airbuses. Airbii is not a word.
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uberflieger
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Re: DL and AA resume IROP ticketing and baggage agreement

Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:25 pm

Parker today: "They (DL) came back with the tail between their legs" and yes, they accepted the previous conditions... :mrgreen:

Kirby (UA) must be fuming

:airplane:
 
burnsie28
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Re: DL and AA resume IROP ticketing and baggage agreement

Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:34 pm

LAXintl wrote:
AA says DL approached them to reinstate the relationship.

American spokeswoman Leslie Scott said Delta approached American “a few months ago” about restarting the agreement. “We are pleased to have reached an agreement and to give our frontline team members additional customer protection options,” she said.

https://skift.com/2018/01/23/american-a ... sruptions/

=


Interesting since that same Leslie Scott used to work at Delta.
 
burnsie28
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Re: DL and AA resume IROP ticketing and baggage agreement

Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:38 pm

Egerton wrote:
I am a bit baffled. It is my understanding that at British Airways, the scheduling of which aeroplanes go where is done overnight. If there are heavy loads to X and light loads to Y, within the A320x fleet BA can adjust which model will do the appropriate flight. Sometimes BA sends a 747 to Scotland at very short notice to clear a backlog. Of course this does not work well if the IT is down, or the weather forecasters have got it wrong!

Presumably this scheduling overnight works equally in the US? (I know the UK has less time zone issues than the US)


NW used to do that a lot with the DC9's not so much the night before but even within hours. They had floater FA's for the DC9 trips. Today, its a lot more difficult. For instance the 320 at Delta requires 4 flight attendants where as the 319 requires 3. So yes occasionally they have to swap planes, even to a different fleet type, but those are mostly reserve crews. Doing it whole scale would be near impossible to do it like BA. None the less with different seating configs. The US market is too complicated to do things like that.
 
MSPNWA
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Re: DL and AA resume IROP ticketing and baggage agreement

Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:41 pm

Nice to see this policy return. It was poor service to cancel it, and I'm glad to see both parties come to an agreement. Ironic how once this was canceled DL had meltdown after meltdown in ATL where it would have been very useful. Quotes from AA say DL must have been recognized their error.

All this talk about who sends more to who is a red herring. Ultimately that number is determined by who provides better service by being willing to eat the costs and rightly send a customer to another airline. It's not determined by who has better operations, although that is a factor if everything else is equal. It would not surprise me if DL was very hesitant to send people over to AA.
 
dmorbust
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Re: DL and AA resume IROP ticketing and baggage agreement

Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:12 pm

uberflieger wrote:
Parker today: "They (DL) came back with the tail between their legs" and yes, they accepted the previous conditions... :mrgreen:

Kirby (UA) must be fuming

:airplane:


Was this on the earnings call, because I did not find it in the transcript: https://seekingalpha.com/article/414018 ... art=single ?
 
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Rookie87
Posts: 261
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:33 pm

Re: DL and AA resume IROP ticketing and baggage agreement

Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:35 am

In my agent days when we had IROPS or had to rebook on another carrier, it was FULL FARE Y priced, not what Joe Schmo bought on Expedia. Since when did that change?
 
iflyalexair
Posts: 52
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Re: DL and AA resume IROP ticketing and baggage agreement

Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:39 pm

Rookie87 wrote:
In my agent days when we had IROPS or had to rebook on another carrier, it was FULL FARE Y priced, not what Joe Schmo bought on Expedia. Since when did that change?


The segment is booked in Y, but the amount paid to the receiving carrier is not full Y fare. It’s a negotiated amount.

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