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DLHAM
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Hainan to fly to HAM

Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:54 pm

According to Airlineroute on Twitter (https://twitter.com/Airlineroute/status/955941379435151360), Hainan intendes to move some Berlin frequencies to Hamburg. The plan is to fly Beijing - Hamburg from August twice a week with A330 "and/or" 787. This has been requested to the CAAC yesterday.

Why move frequencies? Chinese Airlines have limited frequencies to Germany which are all used, no expansion possible without cutting back somewhere else.

This would be Hamburgs first real, long awaited China flight. (Not mentioning that stupid 1-2 weekly China Eastern flight via FRA back in 2011/2012/2013).
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drdisque
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Re: Hainan to fly to HAM

Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:36 pm

Hamburg is potentially a bigger market. As a shipping and science city it has some natural business ties to China. If the Berlin route was doing poorly, I definitely understand the motive to try HAM instead of just giving up the frequencies.
 
AirbusOnly
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Re: Hainan to fly to HAM

Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:26 pm

I will only believe that if I see the first Hainan bird at HAM...how often such flights were announced already @ HAM airport
 
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DLHAM
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Re: Hainan to fly to HAM

Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:34 pm

AirbusOnly wrote:
I will only believe that if I see the first Hainan bird at HAM...how often such flights were announced already @ HAM airport


Do you have examples? I can remember many rumors which never happened, but its never been that concrete.
But I also dont want to be happy too early ... just in case ...
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B777LRF
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Re: Hainan to fly to HAM

Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:40 pm

HNA Group is presently in a spot of bother, financially, having previously engaged in an aggressive expansion exercise costing a lot of money. Recently their HK Express brand has been barred from expansion and adding aircraft to their fleet by the CAAC.

Furthermore, Hainan (or one of the other HNA Group brands) have previously announced new routes to this, that and the other European and North American destinations, only to cancel them very quietly rather close to launch day.

As a previous poster put it, I'll believe it when we see one in HAM.
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r2rho
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Re: Hainan to fly to HAM

Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:09 pm

Nothing yet spotted in German media... and given HAM's history of "success" with gaining intercontinental flights, plus the total passiveness of local authorities in the matter, I too will believe it when I see the first aircraft.

As for the route itself, it certainly makes sense, though I could see higher potential in PVG than PEK.
 
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DLHAM
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Re: Hainan to fly to HAM

Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:31 pm

r2rho wrote:
Nothing yet spotted in German media... and given HAM's history of "success" with gaining intercontinental flights, plus the total passiveness of local authorities in the matter, I too will believe it when I see the first aircraft.

As for the route itself, it certainly makes sense, though I could see higher potential in PVG than PEK.


In German:

https://www.mopo.de/hamburg/direktflug-nach-china-bald-geht-s-von-hamburg-direkt-nach-peking--29554482
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dc10lover
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Re: Hainan to fly to HAM

Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:02 pm

I read they will also be serving YVR ( Vancouver BC)
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
dc10lover
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Re: Hainan to fly to HAM

Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:03 pm

It's good they are growing.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Hainan to fly to HAM

Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:46 pm

dc10lover wrote:
I read they will also be serving YVR ( Vancouver BC)


Yes, they certainly are:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1384501

For the proposed flight itself, HU is only flying PEK-TXL 3 times per week right now. If they shifted 2 to HAM that means there would be only 1/wk flight left to TXL. Certainly not good news for Berlin. On the other hand, imo all HU seems to be doing is throwing on a dartboard all the secondary cities you can think of and hope some would work.
 
Ferryflight
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Re: Hainan to fly to HAM

Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:58 pm

Air Berlin and Hainan had a cooperation in Berlin. I guess this is the main reason.
 
Cunard
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Re: Hainan to fly to HAM

Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:47 am

dc10lover wrote:
It's good they are growing.


Yeah that's all well and done but at what cost considering the groups current position!
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LTU932
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Re: Hainan to fly to HAM

Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:58 pm

r2rho wrote:
Nothing yet spotted in German media... and given HAM's history of "success" with gaining intercontinental flights, plus the total passiveness of local authorities in the matter, I too will believe it when I see the first aircraft.

As for the route itself, it certainly makes sense, though I could see higher potential in PVG than PEK.
UA had a nice run until after a decade they decided to cut down on HAM. That being said, I don't think this new flight to China will last long, but I hope I'm wrong.
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MaxiAir
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Re: Hainan to fly to HAM

Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:23 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
dc10lover wrote:
I read they will also be serving YVR ( Vancouver BC)


Yes, they certainly are:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1384501

For the proposed flight itself, HU is only flying PEK-TXL 3 times per week right now. If they shifted 2 to HAM that means there would be only 1/wk flight left to TXL. Certainly not good news for Berlin. On the other hand, imo all HU seems to be doing is throwing on a dartboard all the secondary cities you can think of and hope some would work.

Berlin is 5/7 in the summer, so they would just stay at 3/7 when Hamburg takes over the remaining 2/7. I hope it happens and I hope they send the A330 and 787 each weekly.
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patrickw421
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Re: Hainan to fly to HAM

Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:49 pm

B777LRF wrote:
HNA Group is presently in a spot of bother, financially, having previously engaged in an aggressive expansion exercise costing a lot of money. Recently their HK Express brand has been barred from expansion and adding aircraft to their fleet by the CAAC.

Furthermore, Hainan (or one of the other HNA Group brands) have previously announced new routes to this, that and the other European and North American destinations, only to cancel them very quietly rather close to launch day.

As a previous poster put it, I'll believe it when we see one in HAM.


Just for record the expansion ban for HK Express was decided and enforced by HKCAD and not CAAC as they are based in Hong Kong.

I hope this is a more thought through decision than many of their other decisions which seem to be quite randomly decided.
 
r2rho
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Re: Hainan to fly to HAM

Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:11 pm

UA had a nice run until after a decade they decided to cut down on HAM. That being said, I don't think this new flight to China will last long, but I hope I'm wrong.

They did and the flight was always well booked, but have decided to deploy assets elsewhere, as happened to STR which even got cut completely. IMO "secondary" cities like these are suffering from the effect of TATL JV's, as UA doesn't really care much if HAM pax fly on them non-stop or via FRA on the JV - they will still get the money. Any spill to AF-KL will be low-yielding pax anyway, and Star frequent flyers will stay loyal.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Hainan to fly to HAM

Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:25 pm

DLHAM wrote:
AirbusOnly wrote:
I will only believe that if I see the first Hainan bird at HAM...how often such flights were announced already @ HAM airport


Do you have examples? I can remember many rumors which never happened, but its never been that concrete.
But I also dont want to be happy too early ... just in case ...

China Eastern flew to HAM several years ago but stopped it due to low pax numbers. IIRC it was an extension of the flight from PEK to FRA.

 
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DLHAM
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Re: Hainan to fly to HAM

Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:43 pm

N14AZ wrote:
DLHAM wrote:
AirbusOnly wrote:
I will only believe that if I see the first Hainan bird at HAM...how often such flights were announced already @ HAM airport


Do you have examples? I can remember many rumors which never happened, but its never been that concrete.
But I also dont want to be happy too early ... just in case ...

China Eastern flew to HAM several years ago but stopped it due to low pax numbers. IIRC it was an extension of the flight from PEK to FRA.



Well, its no wonder that the route wont perform good. Only once a week and via FRA, that was a joke. Which important Business Traveller do you want to attract, most of them in Germany are Star Alliance Status members. Why should they use MU with such a bad frequency AND a stop in FRA. The flight must be nonstop to drive them away from Star Alliance.
If the flight would have been nonstop (PVG - HAM - CDG was a good option IMO these days) it would have been a sucess. But I am sure the traffic rights were not allowing several nonstop flights a week.

At the beginning there were only between 10 and 20 passengers on each flight. After some time it developed better, average 50-70 pax. There were also flights leaving with over a 100.
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NichCage
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Re: Hainan to fly to HAM

Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:08 pm

Air Transat also served YYZ-HAM for a quite a while.

Sad to see UA drop year round EWR-HAM. I'm sure a 752 could fly the route year round pretty well.
 
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LTU932
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Re: Hainan to fly to HAM

Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:07 pm

NichCage wrote:
Sad to see UA drop year round EWR-HAM. I'm sure a 752 could fly the route year round pretty well.
They already did that, but the problem has always been the headwinds during the winter on the westbound. That was one of the reasons for switching to the 763.
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