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Irehdna
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Air India has a New 77W Cabin

Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:13 pm

Posted on AI's twitter:
https://twitter.com/airindiain/status/9 ... 0769739777

What do you think about it? Interesting that it is still 3-3-3 economy, and the airline seems to have removed first class.

Also this new 77W VT-ALV just flew SEA-DEL nonstop. Now I know the flight was empty, but would this new HGW 77W be capable of flying DEL-SFO/SEA nonstop with passengers?
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: Air India has a New 77W Cabin

Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:25 pm

Removed First Class ???? That's going to outrage those goverment types demanding their free upgrade, "You know who I am?" :rotfl:
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
blrsea
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Re: Air India has a New 77W Cabin

Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:31 pm

Wonder why they decided to keep 3-3-3 in Y when most of the others are sticking with 3-4-3? Even CX is moving towards 3-4-3. And its not like 3-3-3 can't do almost all their routes. They are leaving money on the table when the oil prices are going up. It was also one of the reasons why they couldn't operate the 777s profitably earlier. With oil prices going up, it may end up being a hanger queen again.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Air India has a New 77W Cabin

Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:40 pm

VT-ALV and ALX won't enter service for another six months. It is not clear they will ever enter commercial service. After paperwork and participating in India's Republic Day celebration, VT-ALV will be back here for $90 Million VVIP cabin refit.

But AI will continue to pay monthly payments, insurance and support on $580Million hardware without any revenue.

These will join India's ~$3Billion VVIP air transport fleet.

$580M - 2 x 77Ws
$1B - 3 x BBJs
$750M - 12 x MI-17 V5s
$250M - 3 x NIB AW101s
$300M - 6 x ERJs
$0 - 4 x 744s.

If the plan is to gut the interiors, why waste on these planes, they could have refurbished interiors on badly needed old frames.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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neomax
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Re: Air India has a New 77W Cabin

Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:49 pm

I love the first comment that says there are no seatbelts on the footrest! :rotfl:
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Air India has a New 77W Cabin

Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:52 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
VT-ALV and ALX won't enter service for another six months. It is not clear they will ever enter commercial service. After paperwork and participating in India's Republic Day celebration, VT-ALV will be back here for $90 Million VVIP cabin refit.

But AI will continue to pay monthly payments, insurance and support on $580Million hardware without any revenue.

These will join India's ~$3Billion VVIP air transport fleet.

$580M - 2 x 77Ws
$1B - 3 x BBJs
$750M - 12 x MI-17 V5s
$250M - 3 x NIB AW101s
$300M - 6 x ERJs
$0 - 4 x 744s.

If the plan is to gut the interiors, why waste on these planes, they could have refurbished interiors on badly needed old frames.


Are you are some of the current 77Ws in the fleet aren’t becoming the VIP transport aircraft?
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Air India has a New 77W Cabin

Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:14 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
...
Are you are some of the current 77Ws in the fleet aren’t becoming the VIP transport aircraft?


Using old 77Ws for VVIPs was never the real intention. Just to fool people and to feed enough news reports for search engines. Also, it would cost a lot more to implement structural and system changes on an existing frame than on a new frame.

VT-ALV and VT-ALX are $200M each(not including $90M cabins) compared to VT-ALY's $135M price tag including cabin.

That means ALV and ALX have structural and system enhancements for VVIPs.
All posts are just opinions.
 
Motorhussy
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Re: Air India has a New 77W Cabin

Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:17 pm

Bizarre they haven’t gone to 3-4-3 in Y and very odd that they’ve stuck with such a 20th century J class layout. Not looking like they’re set on turning a profit.
come visit the south pacific
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Air India has a New 77W Cabin

Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:22 pm

Looks like Y has latest Thales Avant IFE with a hard remote, not a smart touchpad controller.

Business class monitors are not mounted flush like 787s. Removed useless tiny cubbies next to monitor and increased the size of footrest magazine storage size.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Air India has a New 77W Cabin

Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:52 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
...
Are you are some of the current 77Ws in the fleet aren’t becoming the VIP transport aircraft?


Using old 77Ws for VVIPs was never the real intention. Just to fool people and to feed enough news reports for search engines. Also, it would cost a lot more to implement structural and system changes on an existing frame than on a new frame.

VT-ALV and VT-ALX are $200M each(not including $90M cabins) compared to VT-ALY's $135M price tag including cabin.

That means ALV and ALX have structural and system enhancements for VVIPs.


At this point it seems like plans must have changed, otherwise they are wasting money by fitting this aircraft in a standard AI configuration.
 
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GE90man
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Re: Air India has a New 77W Cabin

Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:07 pm

blrsea wrote:
Wonder why they decided to keep 3-3-3 in Y when most of the others are sticking with 3-4-3? Even CX is moving towards 3-4-3. And its not like 3-3-3 can't do almost all their routes. They are leaving money on the table when the oil prices are going up. It was also one of the reasons why they couldn't operate the 777s profitably earlier. With oil prices going up, it may end up being a hanger queen again.

Don’t question it, just be glad that if you ever fly one of these it’ll be less squishy
 
yashk
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Re: Air India has a New 77W Cabin

Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:09 pm

AI's twitter handle says they used a reverse pacific westbound flight path and they achieved a record flight time of 14 hours. I wonder what stops them to use this flight path for SFO-DEL as well?
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Air India has a New 77W Cabin

Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:15 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
At this point it seems like plans must have changed, otherwise they are wasting money by fitting this aircraft in a standard AI configuration.


Dual use is still a possibility if AI is not sold in six months. Probably AIESL will swap J cabin with VVIP cabin on demand, like EVA/B.

It would be easy on AI finances if IAF owns and operates these planes and AIESL provides MX, like Japanese. JASDF owns and operates, ANA does MX.
All posts are just opinions.
 
KiloRomeoDelta
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Re: Air India has a New 77W Cabin

Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:20 pm

blrsea wrote:
Wonder why they decided to keep 3-3-3 in Y when most of the others are sticking with 3-4-3? Even CX is moving towards 3-4-3. And its not like 3-3-3 can't do almost all their routes. They are leaving money on the table when the oil prices are going up.


Oh come on now! There is just no pleasing the a.net crowd when it comes to AI, isn't it? When airlines went from 3-3-3 to 3-4-3 on 777s, you guys were up in arms about "oh God sardine cans! Why would airlines do this!". Now when AI is giving you the comfortable 3-3-3 layout, you have problems with that too.
 
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Slash787
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Re: Air India has a New 77W Cabin

Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:22 pm

These seats seem to be the similar ones on their 787's.
 
blrsea
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Re: Air India has a New 77W Cabin

Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:37 pm

KiloRomeoDelta wrote:
blrsea wrote:
Wonder why they decided to keep 3-3-3 in Y when most of the others are sticking with 3-4-3? Even CX is moving towards 3-4-3. And its not like 3-3-3 can't do almost all their routes. They are leaving money on the table when the oil prices are going up.


Oh come on now! There is just no pleasing the a.net crowd when it comes to AI, isn't it? When airlines went from 3-3-3 to 3-4-3 on 777s, you guys were up in arms about "oh God sardine cans! Why would airlines do this!". Now when AI is giving you the comfortable 3-3-3 layout, you have problems with that too.


There is nothing I like better than hoping AI does well. I have travelled on multiple carriers with 10-abreast seating on 777. I haven't complained about the 10-abreast seating against any carrier so far.

Previously, AI faced serious losses with 9-abreast 77Ws and 77Ls. Don't want them repeating the same as oil prices are going up.

However, if the aircraft are for VVIP duties, maybe its for the rest of the entourage of PM/President, in which case it might not matter much. Maybe thats why it appears first class is missing, as those might be suites for the VVIP.
 
yashk
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Re: Air India has a New 77W Cabin

Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:21 pm

I think this is just the VIP config. The one AI plans to induct in their fleet will most likely have a very similar config to the current 777s in the fleet cause having just one aircraft with different number of Y/J/F seats will be a nightmare for scheduling.

Unless AI plans on getting the rest of the fleet to this configuration.
 
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globetrotter94
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Re: Air India has a New 77W Cabin

Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:25 pm

yashk wrote:
I think this is just the VIP config. The one AI plans to induct in their fleet will most likely have a very similar config to the current 777s in the fleet cause having just one aircraft with different number of Y/J/F seats will be a nightmare for scheduling.

Unless AI plans on getting the rest of the fleet to this configuration.


Even if they are not currently planning for such refurbishment, they seriously should, cause it looks way better than the current 77W cabins.
6E, 9W, AF, AI, B6, BA, BI, BR, CA, DN, GA, IC, JL, KB, KL, KU, NH, QR, SQ, TG, TK, UA, VS
 
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globetrotter94
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Re: Air India has a New 77W Cabin

Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:29 pm

blrsea wrote:
Wonder why they decided to keep 3-3-3 in Y when most of the others are sticking with 3-4-3? Even CX is moving towards 3-4-3. And its not like 3-3-3 can't do almost all their routes. They are leaving money on the table when the oil prices are going up. It was also one of the reasons why they couldn't operate the 777s profitably earlier. With oil prices going up, it may end up being a hanger queen again.


Lot of premium carriers do not move to the ridiculous 3-4-3 layout in Y: CA, ET, NH, TK to name a few.
6E, 9W, AF, AI, B6, BA, BI, BR, CA, DN, GA, IC, JL, KB, KL, KU, NH, QR, SQ, TG, TK, UA, VS
 
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tjcab
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Re: Air India has a New 77W Cabin

Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:33 pm

KiloRomeoDelta wrote:
blrsea wrote:
Wonder why they decided to keep 3-3-3 in Y when most of the others are sticking with 3-4-3? Even CX is moving towards 3-4-3. And its not like 3-3-3 can't do almost all their routes. They are leaving money on the table when the oil prices are going up.


Oh come on now! There is just no pleasing the a.net crowd when it comes to AI, isn't it? When airlines went from 3-3-3 to 3-4-3 on 777s, you guys were up in arms about "oh God sardine cans! Why would airlines do this!". Now when AI is giving you the comfortable 3-3-3 layout, you have problems with that too.


Honestly! I was about to say the exact same thing.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Air India has a New 77W Cabin

Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:48 pm

blrsea wrote:
...It was also one of the reasons why they couldn't operate the 777s profitably earlier. With oil prices going up, it may end up being a hanger queen again.


Load restricted 77W/77L was a Mumbai-Newark specific issue. AI could switch BOM-EWR to 788 now that AMD-LHR-EWR is available.

Not sure about EWR but it appears AI commanding $300-$400 price premium over its competitors at least to SFO/IAD.
All posts are just opinions.
 
alan3
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Re: Air India has a New 77W Cabin

Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:05 pm

Are they still doing 2-3-2 in J or are those days finally gone?

Why some airlines still do 3 across in J class I'll never know. Spend that kind of money and STILL get a middle seat?
 
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kjeld0d
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Re: Air India has a New 77W Cabin

Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:12 pm

neomax wrote:
I love the first comment that says there are no seatbelts on the footrest! :rotfl:


Hellooooooooo....inverted flying? They just want to be prepared:)

Image
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Air India has a New 77W Cabin

Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:48 am

globetrotter94 wrote:
Lot of premium carriers do not move to the ridiculous 3-4-3 layout in Y: CA, ET, NH, TK to name a few.

Both CA and NH do have 3-4-3 layout in 777-300ER's Y, albert not fleet wide and only limited to a subfleet. For NH it's those 264-seater birds, for CA it's 392-seater.

Michael
 
BestWestern
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Re: Air India has a New 77W Cabin

Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:24 am

It’s not that anyone wants 3-4-3, but in a yield challenged market, AI needs 3-4-3 to have any chance of making money.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Air India has a New 77W Cabin

Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:45 am

I know 3-4-3 is derided here, but I would have gone 3-4-3 in Y (with a 32"-33" pitch) and introduce a W and Y+ cabin. That said, Air India has no use for a first-class cabin, and the J-W-Y+-Y model should work there, keeping the ultimate seat count under 300 seats (an earlier plan I thought of months ago had Y 10 abreast, 33" pitch/17" width, using the Dreamliner dimensions---in that region, PR also uses the same seat in Y). The idea is to also prevent range restrictions, especially on the nonstops to the USA.
 
910A
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Re: Air India has a New 77W Cabin

Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:07 am

Irehdna wrote:
Posted on AI's twitter:
https://twitter.com/airindiain/status/9 ... 0769739777

What do you think about it? Interesting that it is still 3-3-3 economy, and the airline seems to have removed first class.

Also this new 77W VT-ALV just flew SEA-DEL nonstop. Now I know the flight was empty, but would this new HGW 77W be capable of flying DEL-SFO/SEA nonstop with passengers?


Just asking, why wouldn't a HGW 77W be able to fly DEL-SFO? The AI flight to SFO sees a 77W on a routine basis as subs for the 77L. Maybe there are weight restrictions I'm not aware of.
 
luv2cattlecall
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Re: Air India has a New 77W Cabin

Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:49 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
I know 3-4-3 is derided here, but I would have gone 3-4-3 in Y (with a 32"-33" pitch) and introduce a W and Y+ cabin. That said, Air India has no use for a first-class cabin, and the J-W-Y+-Y model should work there, keeping the ultimate seat count under 300 seats (an earlier plan I thought of months ago had Y 10 abreast, 33" pitch/17" width, using the Dreamliner dimensions---in that region, PR also uses the same seat in Y). The idea is to also prevent range restrictions, especially on the nonstops to the USA.


Yep. Throw in an extra 10% legroom and the 3-3-3 Y+ would be great for the masses who aren't as price sensitive.
 
speedbird52
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Re: Air India has a New 77W Cabin

Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:26 am

readytotaxi wrote:
Removed First Class ???? That's going to outrage those goverment types demanding their free upgrade, "You know who I am?" :rotfl:

The crew should just try and convince them that First Class is outside the door. As an ethnic Pakistani, I think PIA should do something similar to that...
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Air India has a New 77W Cabin

Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:32 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
keeping the ultimate seat count under 300 seats (an earlier plan I thought of months ago had Y 10 abreast, 33" pitch/17" width, using the Dreamliner dimensions


AI 77Ws already have 342 (303Y 35J 4F) seats. ALV may be 303Y(3-3-3) 36J(2-2-2)

3-4-3 Y is needed for airlines allot more floor space to premium cabins. Not applicable to AI. If at all AI needs premium economy, floor space should come from J, not from Y.

18J(2-2-2) 22w, 76 pitch lie flatbeds
27W(3-3-3) 18w 38 pitch
303Y(3-3-3) 18w 33 pitch

Now with AI Y already product above other airlines, what would it offer in the premium economy to make worth extra money. Pitch, China, and Silverware.

Premium economy makes sense where the economy class is barebones.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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Flying Belgian
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Re: Air India has a New 77W Cabin

Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:02 pm

For those wishing to see the interior of these three birds:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/ASWFFXLdnEw

I really find that odd that they dedicate such airplanes for domestic uses and VIP purposes... :shock: :?: :roll:
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
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Slash787
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Re: Air India has a New 77W Cabin

Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:31 pm

Flying Belgian wrote:
For those wishing to see the interior of these three birds:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/ASWFFXLdnEw

I really find that odd that they dedicate such airplanes for domestic uses and VIP purposes... :shock: :?: :roll:


Great video, any idea what are the timings of this Del-BOM route on the B777?
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Air India has a New 77W Cabin

Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:52 pm

Flying Belgian wrote:
For those wishing to see the interior of these three birds:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/ASWFFXLdnEw

I really find that odd that they dedicate such airplanes for domestic uses and VIP purposes... :shock: :?: :roll:


Nice video Flying Belgian. It still has F.

The answer to your last statement doesn't belong in av forum.
All posts are just opinions.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Air India has a New 77W Cabin

Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:29 pm

Every airline sends there 500 seat sardine can to India and AI is still doing 3-3-3...same goes for TG. Passengers have spoken loudly with their wallets.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
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ronitkadam777
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Re: Air India has a New 77W Cabin

Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:54 pm

Flying Belgian wrote:
For those wishing to see the interior of these three birds:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/ASWFFXLdnEw

I really find that odd that they dedicate such airplanes for domestic uses and VIP purposes... :shock: :?: :roll:


What a neat report!

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