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AirbusMDCFAN
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United to downsize its Guam operation

Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:04 pm

Link/Source: https://worldairlinenews.com/2018/01/27 ... operation/


"United Airlines inherited the Micronesia and Guam route map from Continental Airlines. United is now following through on its plans to downsize its presence at Guam."
"The carrier will drop the Guam – Shanghai (Pudong) route on March 25. On April 2, the airline will delete the Guam – Sendai route."

What other cuts are coming to the Guam operation and will the Island hopper see cuts or reduced frequencies
 
B737900ER
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:15 pm

I would hardly consider dropping PVG as downsizing.
 
drdisque
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:25 pm

GUM-SDJ has been operated very infrequently the past few years, something like 1-2x weekly even during peak seasons. It's not a huge loss. The PVG flight just must not be performing well and is also less than daily.

I'm guessing that this is just part of an annual review of the GUM operation. I doubt UA management has much devoted to network planning or revenue management on these routes.
 
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SumChristianus
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:32 pm

The NK (North Korea) not Spirit (Haha) threat has hurt GUM demand. They announced reductions last summer, I believe.
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jayunited
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:45 pm

AirbusMDCFAN wrote:
Link/Source: https://worldairlinenews.com/2018/01/27 ... operation/


"United Airlines inherited the Micronesia and Guam route map from Continental Airlines. United is now following through on its plans to downsize its presence at Guam."
"The carrier will drop the Guam – Shanghai (Pudong) route on March 25. On April 2, the airline will delete the Guam – Sendai route."

What other cuts are coming to the Guam operation and will the Island hopper see cuts or reduced frequencies


The Island hoppers frequency has just been increase from 3 weekly to 4 weekly as it is an extremely popular route.
Last year I believe UA announced they were reducing service on the GUM-SDJ do to falling demand as more and more Japanese tourist are avoiding Guam. From the load factors that I've seen I'm not surprised this route is being cut with the exception of the GUM-NRT flights most other flights from Japan to Guam that use to go out completely full just a year or two ago, now days barely achieve 50% or 60% load factors. I don't want to place all the blame on the U.S's growing tensions with North Korea but there is a clear trend that as tensions rise the number of Japanese vacationing in Guam has dropped. I'm sure there are other reasons why demand has fallen and I wouldn't be surprised if UA were to cut or suspend more routes between Guam and Japan.
As far as Guam-Shanghai I'm not sure why UA added this route so I'm not surprised that 3 or 4 years later the route is being canceled.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:03 pm

This is part of previously announced cuts from October.

Twice weekly PVG was, in essence a charter but operated using scheduled authority, so not much of loss. SDJ frequency was previously reduced as well.

Among other things CTS was also cut entirely last week (eff 1/15)

This largely part of adjustments following the return of 3 of 11 Guam based aircraft to mainland last year.

.
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masseybrown
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:19 pm

When Guam allowed Continental to acquire 100% of the Micronesian operation, there were provisions that Guam could reclaim its share of ownership if specific service provisions were not met. Does anybody know if these recall provisions survived the merger?
 
ual763
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:43 pm

Yeah, I agree with others. This is hardly a downsizing of GUM. Where they've cut, they've added. For example, the increased frequency of the island hopper. With the exception of some of the Asian mainland routes, Guam is extremely profitable for United. Even though the load factors aren't seemingly great, the subsidies United gets to fly between the Pacific islands is worth it alone. They are truly the lifeline of a number of these islands, and in some cases, their only contact with the outside World. Cargo is really important on the Guam routes, not so much passenger loads.
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zakuivcustom
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:59 pm

SumChristianus wrote:
The NK (North Korea) not Spirit (Haha) threat has hurt GUM demand. They announced reductions last summer, I believe.


Some number:
https://www.guamvisitorsbureau.com/rese ... statistics

NK threat certainly didn't help reverse the tide of declining number of Japanese visitors (-25% YtoY 2016 to 2017 :wideeyed: ). On the other hand, the overall number of visitors to Guam in 2017 actually went up thanks to South Korean.

However, if you look at number from previous years, the number of visitors from Japan to Guam had been flat for many years. It used to be that the visitor number to Guam is 85% Japanese, now it's more like 45% South Korean and 40% Japanese.

As for PVG, (mainland) Chinese never really visited Guam in droves, even though they're pretty much everywhere nowaday.
 
eamondzhang
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:33 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
As for PVG, (mainland) Chinese never really visited Guam in droves, even though they're pretty much everywhere nowaday.

Because of the need of US Visa. Many holds the belief that if I have to go through all the hassles getting the visa, I would rather go to the Mainland than Guam.

Michael
 
kiowa
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:50 pm

United is concerned about too many aircraft in one place tipping the island of Guam over. Congress made the threat quite real.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs23CjIWMgA
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:48 am

eamondzhang wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
As for PVG, (mainland) Chinese never really visited Guam in droves, even though they're pretty much everywhere nowaday.

Because of the need of US Visa. Many holds the belief that if I have to go through all the hassles getting the visa, I would rather go to the Mainland than Guam.

Michael


I keep forgetting about that. On the other hand, it's also weird that (mainland) Chinese citizen does not need a visa to Northern Mariana Island (i.e. Saipan), but need one for Guam :scratchchin: :scratchchin: .
 
eamondzhang
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:32 am

zakuivcustom wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
As for PVG, (mainland) Chinese never really visited Guam in droves, even though they're pretty much everywhere nowaday.

Because of the need of US Visa. Many holds the belief that if I have to go through all the hassles getting the visa, I would rather go to the Mainland than Guam.

Michael


I keep forgetting about that. On the other hand, it's also weird that (mainland) Chinese citizen does not need a visa to Northern Mariana Island (i.e. Saipan), but need one for Guam :scratchchin: :scratchchin: .

Well Saipan & Guam do have their own CBP and they have the power to set their own visa regulations AFAIK, separate from the Mainland. I may be wrong though.

SPN wanted to attract enough tourists from China since (I believe) its tourist number was declining.

Michael
 
planemanofnz
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:53 am

eamondzhang wrote:
Many holds the belief that if I have to go through all the hassles getting the visa, I would rather go to the Mainland than Guam.

PVG - GUM is more than 3 times the distance of PVG - LAX, with GUM having a totally different offering and market to the Mainland USA?

Isn't it more, if we have to get visas for GUM, we may as well go to Boracay (not LAX or MIA)?

Although visas may play some role here, I suspect this has more to do with destination quality:

- The Chinese having Hainan (domestically), which is as good a destination as GUM on the beach holiday front, and more catered to them
- More superior international beach holiday destinations across the Philippines, Vietnam and elsewhere, being closer to travel to than GUM

Cheers,

C.
 
eamondzhang
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:30 am

planemanofnz wrote:
PVG - GUM is more than 3 times the distance of PVG - LAX, with GUM having a totally different offering and market to the Mainland USA?

What? PVG-GUM is 3082km TPM, while PVG-LAX is 10432km TPM. I think you got the order wrong. But the point still holds, if they have to go through the hassle getting the visa, which can be used to visit both the Mainland and GUM, one tends not to visit GUM.

planemanofnz wrote:
Isn't it more, if we have to get visas for GUM, we may as well go to Boracay (not LAX or MIA)?

That's my point man.

planemanofnz wrote:
Although visas may play some role here, I suspect this has more to do with destination quality:

- The Chinese having Hainan (domestically), which is as good a destination as GUM on the beach holiday front, and more catered to them
- More superior international beach holiday destinations across the Philippines, Vietnam and elsewhere, being closer to travel to than GUM

Hainan is full of cheats these days, that's why a lot of people (especially those living in western and southern part of China) tends to avoid Hainan. A prawn (yes, one piece) for $10 dollars? No thanks.

But your second point holds, Thailand, Philippines and Vietnam are far cheaper than GUM does. Even Saipan does to some degree (more flights, no visa hassle). And the number of flights from China to Thailand and Vietnam especially are ever exploding, same goes the passenger number. You can get enrolled in a 7-day guided tour group, including flights, accommodation, ticket for attractions and even meals for less than $800 USD if you go to Thailand or Vietnam, and this particular group is marketed as a "more luxury end" product. Try that to GUM.

Michael
 
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:37 am

eamondzhang wrote:
I think you got the order wrong.

Sorry - yes, I got the order wrong!

eamondzhang wrote:
Hainan is full of cheats these days.

Hainan's tourism is still booming.

See: https://www.trbusiness.com/regional-new ... ges/136439.

eamondzhang wrote:
Thailand, Philippines and Vietnam are far cheaper than GUM does.

And not as tailored to the Chinese.

Cheers,

C.
 
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:35 am

planemanofnz wrote:
Hainan's tourism is still booming.

See: https://www.trbusiness.com/regional-new ... ges/136439.

I'm not saying it isn't increasing, but looking at the figure going outbound to nearby countries. Plus if you've been to Hainan you'll notice what I said.

planemanofnz wrote:
And not as tailored to the Chinese.

And? It's not like GUM's tailored to Chinese.

Michael
 
77H
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:34 am

ual763 wrote:
Yeah, I agree with others. This is hardly a downsizing of GUM. Where they've cut, they've added. For example, the increased frequency of the island hopper. With the exception of some of the Asian mainland routes, Guam is extremely profitable for United. Even though the load factors aren't seemingly great, the subsidies United gets to fly between the Pacific islands is worth it alone. They are truly the lifeline of a number of these islands, and in some cases, their only contact with the outside World. Cargo is really important on the Guam routes, not so much passenger loads.


One of the most disruptive aspects of the GUM “downsizing” is the loss of WB flights between NRT and GUM in terms of cargo (as you mention above). Most cargo from ConUS actually flows over JP. The HNL-GUM flight is mostly mail.

77H
 
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vhtje
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:26 am

Do they still operate GUM to CNS? It always looked surprising seeing a CO- then a UA-liveried 737 in CNS
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:38 am

LAXintl wrote:
This is part of previously announced cuts from October.

Twice weekly PVG was, in essence a charter but operated using scheduled authority, so not much of loss. SDJ frequency was previously reduced as well.

Among other things CTS was also cut entirely last week (eff 1/15)

This largely part of adjustments following the return of 3 of 11 Guam based aircraft to mainland last year.

.


Are all the Guam based aircraft now 737's? Seems that apart from the 777 service back to the US mainland / Hawaii all the rest are now 737 routes?
 
77H
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:12 am

Beginning in mid-May, HNL-GUM will be the only regularly scheduled WB for United.

Also, UA no longer serves CNS and hasn’t for a number of years.

77H
 
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DolphinAir747
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:30 pm

Does cutting GUM-PVG open up the opportunity for a new PVG flight on UA? With the way Chinese route authorities work.
 
jayunited
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:16 pm

77H wrote:
One of the most disruptive aspects of the GUM “downsizing” is the loss of WB flights between NRT and GUM in terms of cargo (as you mention above). Most cargo from ConUS actually flows over JP. The HNL-GUM flight is mostly mail.

77H


The 777s return to the NRT-GUM the first week of February the downguage of equipment was only temporary. Starting in February 2 of the 3 daily NRT-GUM-NRT flights will once again utilize domestic 777s.
 
EssentialBusDC
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:39 pm

jayunited wrote:
77H wrote:
One of the most disruptive aspects of the GUM “downsizing” is the loss of WB flights between NRT and GUM in terms of cargo (as you mention above). Most cargo from ConUS actually flows over JP. The HNL-GUM flight is mostly mail.

77H


The 777s return to the NRT-GUM the first week of February the downguage of equipment was only temporary. Starting in February 2 of the 3 daily NRT-GUM-NRT flights will once again utilize domestic 777s.

However for March we are being told things are still up in the air with regards to the 777 and “GUM-NRT: Pending updates.”
 
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LAXintl
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:01 pm

DolphinAir747 wrote:
Does cutting GUM-PVG open up the opportunity for a new PVG flight on UA? With the way Chinese route authorities work.


Its merely 2x weekly. Not very practical.
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77H
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:21 pm

EssentialBusDC wrote:
jayunited wrote:
77H wrote:
One of the most disruptive aspects of the GUM “downsizing” is the loss of WB flights between NRT and GUM in terms of cargo (as you mention above). Most cargo from ConUS actually flows over JP. The HNL-GUM flight is mostly mail.

77H


The 777s return to the NRT-GUM the first week of February the downguage of equipment was only temporary. Starting in February 2 of the 3 daily NRT-GUM-NRT flights will once again utilize domestic 777s.

However for March we are being told things are still up in the air with regards to the 777 and “GUM-NRT: Pending updates.”


Understood. What I was referencing was the downgauge of NRT-GUM to 3x 738 equipment effective in May which was part of this “downsizing” announcement. For the past few years NRT-GUM had 2x 772 and 1x 738. 3x 738 is a big drop in capacity in terms of seats and in the cargo holds.

77H
 
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c933103
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:42 am

so.. CTS will have lost it flight to GUM while maintaining its flight to HNL?
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klakzky123
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:02 am

eamondzhang wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
Because of the need of US Visa. Many holds the belief that if I have to go through all the hassles getting the visa, I would rather go to the Mainland than Guam.

Michael


I keep forgetting about that. On the other hand, it's also weird that (mainland) Chinese citizen does not need a visa to Northern Mariana Island (i.e. Saipan), but need one for Guam :scratchchin: :scratchchin: .

Well Saipan & Guam do have their own CBP and they have the power to set their own visa regulations AFAIK, separate from the Mainland. I may be wrong though.

SPN wanted to attract enough tourists from China since (I believe) its tourist number was declining.

Michael


The CMNI's immigration rules are now under US Federal jurisdiction (under the Department of Homeland Security). Both Guam and the CMNI have requested visa free access for Chinese citizens but only the CMNI received approval.

A lot of it actually has to do with asylum claims. CMNI is currently exempt from US asylum rules while Guam isn't and neither has any ability to handle asylum claims. CMNI actually asks the US government to continually extend the asylum exemption (which it has twice). Plus the US doesn't have adequate repatriation agreements with China. Guam is still pushing for Chinese visa free travel. However, Guam might want to find a way to get the asylum exemption that CMNI has. Otherwise, I don't see how Guam will ever get visa free travel for Chinese visitors.
 
eamondzhang
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:57 am

klakzky123 wrote:

The CMNI's immigration rules are now under US Federal jurisdiction (under the Department of Homeland Security). Both Guam and the CMNI have requested visa free access for Chinese citizens but only the CMNI received approval.

A lot of it actually has to do with asylum claims. CMNI is currently exempt from US asylum rules while Guam isn't and neither has any ability to handle asylum claims. CMNI actually asks the US government to continually extend the asylum exemption (which it has twice). Plus the US doesn't have adequate repatriation agreements with China. Guam is still pushing for Chinese visa free travel. However, Guam might want to find a way to get the asylum exemption that CMNI has. Otherwise, I don't see how Guam will ever get visa free travel for Chinese visitors.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. The asylum thing is indeed interesting and it does make sense why Saipan can have the visa free thing while Guam can't. Also I (wild) guess is the military bases on Guam may have an effect as well but that's pure guess.

Cheers
Michael
 
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c933103
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:07 am

77H wrote:
EssentialBusDC wrote:
jayunited wrote:

The 777s return to the NRT-GUM the first week of February the downguage of equipment was only temporary. Starting in February 2 of the 3 daily NRT-GUM-NRT flights will once again utilize domestic 777s.

However for March we are being told things are still up in the air with regards to the 777 and “GUM-NRT: Pending updates.”


Understood. What I was referencing was the downgauge of NRT-GUM to 3x 738 equipment effective in May which was part of this “downsizing” announcement. For the past few years NRT-GUM had 2x 772 and 1x 738. 3x 738 is a big drop in capacity in terms of seats and in the cargo holds.

77H

It seems like JAL will be going daily 767?
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eamondzhang
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:56 am

c933103 wrote:
77H wrote:
EssentialBusDC wrote:
However for March we are being told things are still up in the air with regards to the 777 and “GUM-NRT: Pending updates.”


Understood. What I was referencing was the downgauge of NRT-GUM to 3x 738 equipment effective in May which was part of this “downsizing” announcement. For the past few years NRT-GUM had 2x 772 and 1x 738. 3x 738 is a big drop in capacity in terms of seats and in the cargo holds.

77H

It seems like JAL will be going daily 767?

Actually twice daily 763. It was a daily 763 for JAL till (I believe) a couple days ago.

Michael
 
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jlaforteza
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:49 pm

A temporary increase for Guam this coming summer at least. https://www.postguam.com/news/local/uni ... 17f04.html
 
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jlaforteza
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:55 pm

c933103 wrote:
77H wrote:
EssentialBusDC wrote:
However for March we are being told things are still up in the air with regards to the 777 and “GUM-NRT: Pending updates.”


Understood. What I was referencing was the downgauge of NRT-GUM to 3x 738 equipment effective in May which was part of this “downsizing” announcement. For the past few years NRT-GUM had 2x 772 and 1x 738. 3x 738 is a big drop in capacity in terms of seats and in the cargo holds.

77H

It seems like JAL will be going daily 767?


Now all the GUM-NRT flights will be B738's. Big cuts there. http://aeronauticsonline.com/united-air ... y-to-guam/
 
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LAXintl
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:00 am

Bigger news is that Cape Air is ending its Guam ops. Last service May 31st.

GUM-SPN sees upgauge to 738 starting June 1st and while ROP will see service discontinued entirely.
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c933103
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:51 am

jlaforteza wrote:
c933103 wrote:
77H wrote:

Understood. What I was referencing was the downgauge of NRT-GUM to 3x 738 equipment effective in May which was part of this “downsizing” announcement. For the past few years NRT-GUM had 2x 772 and 1x 738. 3x 738 is a big drop in capacity in terms of seats and in the cargo holds.

77H

It seems like JAL will be going daily 767?


Now all the GUM-NRT flights will be B738's. Big cuts there. http://aeronauticsonline.com/united-air ... y-to-guam/

That's just for UA right?
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77H
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:00 pm

c933103 wrote:
jlaforteza wrote:
c933103 wrote:
It seems like JAL will be going daily 767?


Now all the GUM-NRT flights will be B738's. Big cuts there. http://aeronauticsonline.com/united-air ... y-to-guam/

That's just for UA right?


Yes. However, I believe other airlines have downgauged aircraft, reduced frequency or canceled service to GUM since the tourism slowdown.
That said, others, like JL, have increased service.

Having followed the drop off in vistors to GUM and the impact its having there, which is most directly a result of the DPRK's threats against GUM it got me to thinking...

The people of GUM and the business serving GUM have no doubt been negatively effected by the DPRK's threats of violence. Given North Korea's standing, globally, not sure much can be done. However, lets say a country levies a threat against a locale in another country. That threat causes a negative economic impact. Is there precidence for local government or business serving that locale to sue the responsible country for damages?

In short, the threats made by the North Korean Leader against GUM have had a negative impact on tourism. The people of GUM, the hotels, air carriers and companies in the service industry at large rely on tourism spending. What recourse, if any, do the government/citizens and/or businesses have to pursue damages in the form of lost business?

77H
 
HeeseokKoo
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:35 pm

77H wrote:
In short, the threats made by the North Korean Leader against GUM have had a negative impact on tourism.

... tourism from Japan. Look up any statistics. Guam tourism has seen only a slight dent, if any, due to massive increase of Korean tourists. Current tourism level in Guam is either the highest or second or third highest in history. The conflict hurt only some of Guam-Japan carriers such as UA and DL. Now that North Korea tension is slowly moving away, things will only improve.

The vacancy of UA and DL is quickly filled up by JL's 2nd daily flight and Jin Air (Korean air's LCC)'s daily NRT-GUM. T'way (another Korean LCC) who is successfully operating KIX-GUM is preparing to launch NGO-GUM soon.
 
ridgid727
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:23 pm

Speaking of the Cape Air ATR's. Any truth to the rumor they are relocating them to Honolulu and operating UA express interisland?
 
routeplanner
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:04 pm

ridgid727 wrote:
Speaking of the Cape Air ATR's. Any truth to the rumor they are relocating them to Honolulu and operating UA express interisland?


We heard that the other day in the office. Im not sure if its true or just a rumor. My buddy over at 9K was mum on the subject.
 
obelau24
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:18 pm

ridgid727 wrote:
Speaking of the Cape Air ATR's. Any truth to the rumor they are relocating them to Honolulu and operating UA express interisland?


This is anecdotal but my understanding of the Cape Air operation is that it was plagued by mechanical issues with the ATRs - can anyone confirm or correct this perspective? I highly doubt UA would want to move to inter island ops - what would that give them that their inter line with HA doesn’t? The market is much smaller now with so many direct flights to the islands from the mainland - I think it would be an exercise in futility. Not to mention if the ATR issue I mentioned is true, that rumor is DOA because locals are very very savvy when it comes to things like that - part of the reason WP had such a bad rap before the Q400s.

I left Micronesia years ago - who still flies between GUM and ROP/TIQ/SPN? This move will obviously cut frequency on GUM-SPN, probably twice daily to connect to the main banks.
 
ridgid727
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:25 pm

obelau24 wrote:
ridgid727 wrote:
Speaking of the Cape Air ATR's. Any truth to the rumor they are relocating them to Honolulu and operating UA express interisland?


This is anecdotal but my understanding of the Cape Air operation is that it was plagued by mechanical issues with the ATRs - can anyone confirm or correct this perspective?


I really do not know, I work in property leasing for my airline, and heard that from someone at another airline.
 
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jlaforteza
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:06 am

HeeseokKoo wrote:
77H wrote:
In short, the threats made by the North Korean Leader against GUM have had a negative impact on tourism.

... tourism from Japan. Look up any statistics. Guam tourism has seen only a slight dent, if any, due to massive increase of Korean tourists. Current tourism level in Guam is either the highest or second or third highest in history. The conflict hurt only some of Guam-Japan carriers such as UA and DL. Now that North Korea tension is slowly moving away, things will only improve.

The vacancy of UA and DL is quickly filled up by JL's 2nd daily flight and Jin Air (Korean air's LCC)'s daily NRT-GUM. T'way (another Korean LCC) who is successfully operating KIX-GUM is preparing to launch NGO-GUM soon.


As much as I love having all the Korean LCC's coming to Guam, I've used Jeju Air quite frequently to go off island to Seoul and Busan for vacation, the fact of the matter is though the numbers are up overall, the Koreans spend less than the Japanese. About 1/3 less according to GVB. Money talks and Guam is hurting due to the loss of Japanese. The Japan Airline flights help a bit, but the cuts hurt more than GVB is letting on. https://www.postguam.com/news/local/sur ... b37ca.html

Part of me also thinks United is shifting more towards Micronesia instead. Although how effective will that be? I'd like to find out how many Micronesians use employee passes due to family or friends working for United.
 
tkimmel
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:37 pm

 
HeeseokKoo
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:59 pm

jlaforteza wrote:
As much as I love having all the Korean LCC's coming to Guam, I've used Jeju Air quite frequently to go off island to Seoul and Busan for vacation, the fact of the matter is though the numbers are up overall, the Koreans spend less than the Japanese. About 1/3 less according to GVB. Money talks and Guam is hurting due to the loss of Japanese. The Japan Airline flights help a bit, but the cuts hurt more than GVB is letting on. https://www.postguam.com/news/local/sur ... b37ca.html

Part of me also thinks United is shifting more towards Micronesia instead. Although how effective will that be? I'd like to find out how many Micronesians use employee passes due to family or friends working for United.

Thanks for sharing the interesting article. Koreans stay longer than Japanese but spend 1/3 (although numbers don't add up inside the article, and hotel cost has been excluded). Koreans don't take taxi and spend less on luxury items. Well, that could be obvious because most Koreans came via cheap ticket (LCC) and duty free, where Koreans spend most of their shopping budget, at Korea is cheaper and better selections than GUM. If less-Japanese more-Korean trend continues in the next few years, local business should evolve accordingly. Koreans love budget shopping - I heard Kmart is where many, if not most, Korean visitors stop by. What Guam needs for Korean visitors is a good outlet shopping mall, not another duty free shop. I hear again and again from Koreans that there's no place to shop in Guam and yet the article complains that Koreans don't do shopping in Guam.
 
N766UA
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:37 pm

routeplanner wrote:
ridgid727 wrote:
Speaking of the Cape Air ATR's. Any truth to the rumor they are relocating them to Honolulu and operating UA express interisland?


We heard that the other day in the office. Im not sure if its true or just a rumor. My buddy over at 9K was mum on the subject.


Good luck living in Hawaii on 9K ATR pay.
 
azjubilee
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:41 pm

N766UA wrote:
routeplanner wrote:
ridgid727 wrote:
Speaking of the Cape Air ATR's. Any truth to the rumor they are relocating them to Honolulu and operating UA express interisland?


We heard that the other day in the office. Im not sure if its true or just a rumor. My buddy over at 9K was mum on the subject.


Good luck living in Hawaii on 9K ATR pay.


Good luck also finding somewhere in HNL to stage this supposed operation.
 
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SQ22
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:54 pm

ridgid727 wrote:
Speaking of the Cape Air ATR's. Any truth to the rumor they are relocating them to Honolulu and operating UA express interisland?


The ATR's are quite old. According to planespotters.net the youngest one is 22.9 years old. The other two are 27.8 respective 27.9 years old. So I am wondering if it would make any sense to relocate them.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:03 pm

HeeseokKoo wrote:
jlaforteza wrote:
As much as I love having all the Korean LCC's coming to Guam, I've used Jeju Air quite frequently to go off island to Seoul and Busan for vacation, the fact of the matter is though the numbers are up overall, the Koreans spend less than the Japanese. About 1/3 less according to GVB. Money talks and Guam is hurting due to the loss of Japanese. The Japan Airline flights help a bit, but the cuts hurt more than GVB is letting on. https://www.postguam.com/news/local/sur ... b37ca.html

Part of me also thinks United is shifting more towards Micronesia instead. Although how effective will that be? I'd like to find out how many Micronesians use employee passes due to family or friends working for United.

Thanks for sharing the interesting article. Koreans stay longer than Japanese but spend 1/3 (although numbers don't add up inside the article, and hotel cost has been excluded). Koreans don't take taxi and spend less on luxury items. Well, that could be obvious because most Koreans came via cheap ticket (LCC) and duty free, where Koreans spend most of their shopping budget, at Korea is cheaper and better selections than GUM. If less-Japanese more-Korean trend continues in the next few years, local business should evolve accordingly. Koreans love budget shopping - I heard Kmart is where many, if not most, Korean visitors stop by. What Guam needs for Korean visitors is a good outlet shopping mall, not another duty free shop. I hear again and again from Koreans that there's no place to shop in Guam and yet the article complains that Koreans don't do shopping in Guam.


Agree, the math doesn't add up anyway. I see Japanese spending about $100 more on average on "Gifts/Souvenirs", but food spending between the two are the same, so is transportation.

P.S. BTW, the top Japanese shopping destination in Guam is nothing but that good ol' Guam K-Mart, aka possibly the only K-Mart that makes money :rotfl:

But yes, no more DFS Galleria and let's build a Guam Premium Outlet (Not Guam PREMIER Outlet, I'm referring to the one controlled by Simon Property Group) instead.
 
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jlaforteza
Posts: 80
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Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:35 am

zakuivcustom wrote:
HeeseokKoo wrote:
jlaforteza wrote:
As much as I love having all the Korean LCC's coming to Guam, I've used Jeju Air quite frequently to go off island to Seoul and Busan for vacation, the fact of the matter is though the numbers are up overall, the Koreans spend less than the Japanese. About 1/3 less according to GVB. Money talks and Guam is hurting due to the loss of Japanese. The Japan Airline flights help a bit, but the cuts hurt more than GVB is letting on. https://www.postguam.com/news/local/sur ... b37ca.html

Part of me also thinks United is shifting more towards Micronesia instead. Although how effective will that be? I'd like to find out how many Micronesians use employee passes due to family or friends working for United.

Thanks for sharing the interesting article. Koreans stay longer than Japanese but spend 1/3 (although numbers don't add up inside the article, and hotel cost has been excluded). Koreans don't take taxi and spend less on luxury items. Well, that could be obvious because most Koreans came via cheap ticket (LCC) and duty free, where Koreans spend most of their shopping budget, at Korea is cheaper and better selections than GUM. If less-Japanese more-Korean trend continues in the next few years, local business should evolve accordingly. Koreans love budget shopping - I heard Kmart is where many, if not most, Korean visitors stop by. What Guam needs for Korean visitors is a good outlet shopping mall, not another duty free shop. I hear again and again from Koreans that there's no place to shop in Guam and yet the article complains that Koreans don't do shopping in Guam.


Agree, the math doesn't add up anyway. I see Japanese spending about $100 more on average on "Gifts/Souvenirs", but food spending between the two are the same, so is transportation.

P.S. BTW, the top Japanese shopping destination in Guam is nothing but that good ol' Guam K-Mart, aka possibly the only K-Mart that makes money :rotfl:

But yes, no more DFS Galleria and let's build a Guam Premium Outlet (Not Guam PREMIER Outlet, I'm referring to the one controlled by Simon Property Group) instead.


I was at K-Mart last night, around 10pm and will wholeheartedly agree on both counts. Both the Japanese and Koreans love this place.

We'll see how the businesses and hotels respond here to this changing dynamic. After living here a few years I can say I can't trust anything any leader locally says about anything here. I always tell people Guam is a great place to visit, but terrible if you're a resident.
 
obelau24
Posts: 94
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:00 am

Re: United to downsize its Guam operation

Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:20 pm

Airlineroute just posted the new schedule for GUM-SPN which will be ONCE a day for 01JUN with a morning flight. This blows my mind for 2 reasons: now SPN is no longer connected to/from HNL 200/201 and at its peak, GUN-SPN operates 14 times a day. The second point is trivial nostalgia but it’s very, very strange to disconnect SPN from the entire network. In fact, it only directly connects to the second NRT now - it misconnects with HNL, the island hopper, all Japan, and morning MNL, and requires a day layover to ROR and MNL. Super super weird, in my opinion. Now the flight is pure O&D which there is some of but not enough for a daily 737. I can understand giving up on tourist connections and maybe VFR to PI/Micronesia but not allowing connections to HNL is unbelievable. A better option would have been GUM-SPN-MNL-SPN-GUM at night connecting from/to HNL at GUM

SPN can’t possibly be that low on the totem pole, can it?

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