F9 recently tried a larger IAD operation recently and failed. So let's make it an F9 "hub" now?! This idea literally makes no sense. NK won't touch IAD. It's just not viable for a ULCC.

How many times can we drag out the tired idea of a F9 or B6 hub at IAD? It's not happening.

izbtmnhd wrote:

NK won't touch IAD.

Of course NK wouldn't touch IAD, with BWI being located just across the pond and all...

https://news.flyfrontier.com/frontier-a ... op-routes/

F9 is adding PBI, RSW, PHX, MBJ, PUJ, and CUN from RDU in Q4. No frequencies or start dates released yet. IIRC this is a return to MBJ for F9, although it's slightly odd that they'd start it from RDU at first rather than a larger market.

Sad to see that Frontier is drawing back from ISP, cutting ATL earlier than planned. They're also reducing ORD to 4x weekly. Hopefully this November they come back with more winter service. They already confirmed RSW will be returning, as well as another destination in the South Florida area. (Likely MIA, or maybe even FLL?)
TPA and PBI should hopefully re-gain daily service. It would also be nice if they brought back MSY, which originally started off weak but by the time it gained popularity and frequent flyers it had already been axed.
While not too likely, it would be cool to see them add a warm weather destination out west, like PHX or LAS maybe?
If it was up to me, this would be their winter schedule from ISP:

MIA - 4x weekly - A319
MCO - 2x daily - A320
MSY - 3x weekly - A319
PBI - 1x daily - A320
RSW - 1x daily - A320
TPA - 1x daily - A321
And maybe PHX/LAS - 3x weekly - A320

WNflyer1523 wrote:

It would also be nice if they brought back MSY, which originally started off weak but by the time it gained popularity and frequent flyers it had already been axed.

Yeah, the MSY-ISP/PVD routes were poorly executed by F9. Announced/started too late to capture the fall tourism peak in October and likely most holiday travel had also be planned at that point and then they announce it's getting cut well before the peak travel months of March, April, and May. I could see an early spring start making more sense to get it established and then by summer you have enough local awareness to get some outbound traffic.

How do PVD loads look on F9 over similar periods?

GSP and BMI are getting some F9 action. Anything else new on their schedule yet??

Midwestindy wrote:

WNflyer1523 wrote:

Sad to see that Frontier is drawing back from ISP, cutting ATL earlier than planned. They're also reducing ORD to 4x weekly. Hopefully this November they come back with more winter service. They already confirmed RSW will be returning, as well as another destination in the South Florida area. (Likely MIA, or maybe even FLL?)
TPA and PBI should hopefully re-gain daily service. It would also be nice if they brought back MSY, which originally started off weak but by the time it gained popularity and frequent flyers it had already been axed.
While not too likely, it would be cool to see them add a warm weather destination out west, like PHX or LAS maybe?
If it was up to me, this would be their winter schedule from ISP:

MIA - 4x weekly - A319
MCO - 2x daily - A320
MSY - 3x weekly - A319
PBI - 1x daily - A320
RSW - 1x daily - A320
TPA - 1x daily - A321
And maybe PHX/LAS - 3x weekly - A320

ISP was over-capacity during the fall and winter
Jan-feb
MIA-ISP-73.4%
MCO-ISP-72.6%
MSY-ISP-64.7%
PBI-ISP-83.2%
RSW-ISP-70.1%
TPA-ISP-73.4%

oct-dec
RSW-ISP-71.8%
TPA-ISP-81.7%
PBI-ISP-83.6%
MSY-ISP-71.1%
MIA-ISP-64.3%
MCO-ISP-80.9%

I highly doubt they add more frequencies to ISP over the fall-winter, for an ULCC like F9 ideally LFs on routes should be <85%

Can you report the LFs for ISP-ORD, DTW, MSP, ATL, SJU, MYR?

zackary747 wrote:

GSP and BMI are getting some F9 action. Anything else new on their schedule yet??

BMI looks like a return to the flights that they removed in 2014. DEN starts 24 September, and MCO starts 2 October it appears.

I’m seeing GSP-DEN and MCO. Both are 2x weekly, Wed/Sat, starting September 8.

In addition to MCO & DEN, F9 is also adding TPA & LAS from GSP.

https://amp.greenvilleonline.com/amp/711149002

I don't understand why F9 can't add TPA-DTW. They added CMH, IND, MKE and MSP.

LF may not be everything for some of these F9 routes. PVD-RDU/CLT is being flown by an A321 with 230 seats on what I am assuming was a function of aircraft use/base. 75% on an A321 = 92% if they flew it on an A320.

About time F9 gets into ALB.

ALB is on the drop down list but no options for anything yet

RL757PVD wrote:

ALB is on the drop down list but no options for anything yet

MCO & DEN so far on my PC. Both A319.

All of these cities seem like good adds. It’s kind of hard to believe that so many smaller East Coast cities, like GSO, TYS, GRR, and now PWM, MDT, and GSP, just to name a few, can support F9 service to DEN. If ALB-MCO does well, I can see them trying TPA or RSW in W19 to compete with WN.

RL757PVD wrote:

LF may not be everything for some of these F9 routes. PVD-RDU/CLT is being flown by an A321 with 230 seats on what I am assuming was a function of aircraft use/base. 75% on an A321 = 92% if they flew it on an A320.

I agree, this is probably what killed most of the ISP flights since many of them were flown on the A321 right off the bat. To add on, I feel like in some cases, their equipment for certain routes is kind of inappropriate.

For example, the upcoming PWM/SYR-MCO flights are being flown on the A321. Routes like those are more appropriate for the A320 IMO, and an example on the other end of the spectrum is routes like LAX-DEN or DEN-ORD, where all the flights are on the A320 or A319. These are better markets for the A321 where the extra capacity would be appreciated, and it’d free up the A319s for routes to smaller cities.

FA9295 wrote:

izbtmnhd wrote:

NK won't touch IAD.

Of course NK wouldn't touch IAD, with BWI being located just across the pond and all...

I tend to agree with this. Frontier ramped up IAD more or less the same time that Spirit left DCA for BWI. Spirit has since grown to be the #2 carrier at BWI, so I think they've done well for themselves. So, my question isn't when Spirit is starting IAD, but when is Frontier returning to BWI? I'm kind of surprised they didn't restart DEN-BWI when Spirit announced it.

When we're talking bargain base fares such as Frontier and Spirit, the higher per passenger cost at Dulles has got to be hitting Frontier hard. I mean, Spirit is getting about the same fare at BWI that Frontier gets at Dulles, but paying $10 less a passenger in fees - it really adds up.

I think Frontier doubled down on the wrong airport. Given how many times they have tried to build Dulles, it makes me wonder if they view the airport as a must win.

717atOGG wrote:

For example, the upcoming PWM/SYR-MCO flights are being flown on the A321. Routes like those are more appropriate for the A320 IMO, and an example on the other end of the spectrum is routes like LAX-DEN or DEN-ORD, where all the flights are on the A320 or A319. These are better markets for the A321 where the extra capacity would be appreciated, and it’d free up the A319s for routes to smaller cities.

From what I can see on the F9 site, PWM-MCO is using an A320 most days.

Also based only on the information I can see on the F9 site, they seem to be doing a fairly good job filling flights from PWM, SYR and MDT.

Curious to see what will happen with these routes when Frontier releases their winter / spring schedule.

717atOGG wrote:

RL757PVD wrote:

LF may not be everything for some of these F9 routes. PVD-RDU/CLT is being flown by an A321 with 230 seats on what I am assuming was a function of aircraft use/base. 75% on an A321 = 92% if they flew it on an A320.

I agree, this is probably what killed most of the ISP flights since many of them were flown on the A321 right off the bat. To add on, I feel like in some cases, their equipment for certain routes is kind of inappropriate.

For example, the upcoming PWM/SYR-MCO flights are being flown on the A321. Routes like those are more appropriate for the A320 IMO, and an example on the other end of the spectrum is routes like LAX-DEN or DEN-ORD, where all the flights are on the A320 or A319. These are better markets for the A321 where the extra capacity would be appreciated, and it’d free up the A319s for routes to smaller cities.

Exactly!! IMO the only route the A321 should be doing out of ISP is ISP-MCO.
What aircraft are they using on their new ALB, BMI, and GSP flights?

WNflyer1523 wrote:

What aircraft are they using on their new ALB, BMI, and GSP flights?

All A319 from ALB and BMI. A320's from GSP.

Given F9s focus on utilization, I get the feeling that aircraft types are utilization/efficiency first, demand second, in most cases (while doing logical things like basing the 321s in places like MCO). If that's the case imagine they would look at total flight revenue instead of load factor.

czek6 wrote:

FA9295 wrote:

izbtmnhd wrote:

NK won't touch IAD.

Of course NK wouldn't touch IAD, with BWI being located just across the pond and all...

I tend to agree with this. Frontier ramped up IAD more or less the same time that Spirit left DCA for BWI. Spirit has since grown to be the #2 carrier at BWI, so I think they've done well for themselves. So, my question isn't when Spirit is starting IAD, but when is Frontier returning to BWI? I'm kind of surprised they didn't restart DEN-BWI when Spirit announced it.
I think Frontier doubled down on the wrong airport. Given how many times they have tried to build Dulles, it makes me wonder if they view the airport as a must win.

Minor correction. NK left DCA in 2012 and F9’s first major buildup at IAD wasn’t until 2014. Even though F9 can’t build up BWI very much with WN and NK there, I’d like to think that a flight to DEN and a few destinations in Florida could do well.

While we’re on the note of destinations that F9 should return to, why haven’t they returned to BOS either? I heard something a while back about them having beef with the airport authority over gate fees or something like that, but it’s been ~15 years since they’ve left, so what’s stopping them from returning? Also, does anyone know the year that F9 left these two airports, just out of curiosity?

717atOGG wrote:

While we’re on the note of destinations that F9 should return to, why haven’t they returned to BOS either? I heard something a while back about them having beef with the airport authority over gate fees or something like that, but it’s been ~15 years since they’ve left, so what’s stopping them from returning? Also, does anyone know the year that F9 left these two airports, just out of curiosity?

Opening at / returning to BOS would only hurt their operations at PVD and PWM. There's jsut too much overlap in those markets.

717atOGG wrote:

While we’re on the note of destinations that F9 should return to, why haven’t they returned to BOS either? I heard something a while back about them having beef with the airport authority over gate fees or something like that, but it’s been ~15 years since they’ve left, so what’s stopping them from returning? Also, does anyone know the year that F9 left these two airports, just out of curiosity?

Opening at / returning to BOS would only hurt their operations at PVD and PWM. There's just too much overlap in those markets.

717atOGG wrote:

While we’re on the note of destinations that F9 should return to, why haven’t they returned to BOS either? I heard something a while back about them having beef with the airport authority over gate fees or something like that, but it’s been ~15 years since they’ve left, so what’s stopping them from returning? Also, does anyone know the year that F9 left these two airports, just out of curiosity?

At the time of 9/11 Massport was closing Terminal A for remodelling. This left Frontier looking for a gate and the attitude of Massport was to pound sand - there were plenty of gates available at PVD or MHT.

Frontier was determined, BOS had been a good market, and found a gate at BOS, subleased from US airways (at an exorbitant rate, we are told). The coming down turn in traffic put paid to that - 26% on some flight. Sp Fromtier left BOS.

BWI was a direct result of Southwest coming to DEN. It did okay in the summer but struggled in the winter, and Southwest's arrival put paid to it.

mariner

There is not a gate to be had at BOS, B6 and DL, and to a lesser extend WN ware taking anything that's left to minimize any future competition at BOS.

Glad to see F9 making a return to BMI. Have family in the Decatur area and made the trip 3-4 times a year before it was cancelled. If the flight schedule times are decent, this should prove to be a successful choice given their past performance and usage.

Frontier 14

UPNYGuy wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

About time F9 gets into ALB.

As somebody that lives 20 minutes from ALB, I can really agree we need more LCC and ULCC action here. Many have speculated it was between F9 and NK, as the airport authority has made no secret about wanting additional ULCC air service.

Although I'll admit I was expecting it to be NK, not F9, due to the larger route network. However, F9 is fairly unknown in Upstate New York, and does not have the stigma NK does, so I can see it both ways.

I think this is good for the ALB area. People will discover the low fares on Google flights and it'll spread from there. WN had a good monopoly on a route that now has 3 carriers.

Folks underestimate the size of the East Coast-Florida market.

UPNYGuy wrote:

Granted, F9 isn't going into MIA out of ALB.

Not yet at least.

Just by browsing through Frontier's various social medias, people are getting visibly upset that they haven't opened up their schedule for the winter yet. As of now, their schedule only goes out 5 months until mid November, while most other airlines have other schedules going into January/February.
Hopefully Frontier opens up their winter schedule soon, and I'm interested in seeing all the seasonal adds!
Hopefully they're wise this time with their routes/frequencies/aircraft use.

TYSflyer wrote:

WNflyer1523 wrote:

Just by browsing through Frontier's various social medias, people are getting visibly upset that they haven't opened up their schedule for the winter yet. As of now, their schedule only goes out 5 months until mid November, while most other airlines have other schedules going into January/February.
Hopefully Frontier opens up their winter schedule soon, and I'm interested in seeing all the seasonal adds!
Hopefully they're wise this time with their routes/frequencies/aircraft use.

Last year they opened up the late fall/winter schedule about mid July. Granted, that was when they made some drastic scheduling changes and had their huge announcement about new routes. However, the negativity on social media was huge given the delay on getting out the Thanksgiving/Christmas flight schedules. I was hopeful they would get it out a little earlier this year. I guess we will see soon enough.

They still have a huge number of new routes and destinations to evaluate. Bet they're waiting a few more weeks to see what load factors are looking like in their newer markets.

Fex180 wrote:

TYSflyer wrote:

WNflyer1523 wrote:

Just by browsing through Frontier's various social medias, people are getting visibly upset that they haven't opened up their schedule for the winter yet. As of now, their schedule only goes out 5 months until mid November, while most other airlines have other schedules going into January/February.
Hopefully Frontier opens up their winter schedule soon, and I'm interested in seeing all the seasonal adds!
Hopefully they're wise this time with their routes/frequencies/aircraft use.

Last year they opened up the late fall/winter schedule about mid July. Granted, that was when they made some drastic scheduling changes and had their huge announcement about new routes. However, the negativity on social media was huge given the delay on getting out the Thanksgiving/Christmas flight schedules. I was hopeful they would get it out a little earlier this year. I guess we will see soon enough.

They still have a huge number of new routes and destinations to evaluate. Bet they're waiting a few more weeks to see what load factors are looking like in their newer markets.

While I understand why they’re not opening up the schedule just yet, I agree that they should do it soon. I’m very curious to see what they add this winter, whether it’s a new Florida city, throwing some darts at PSP, LAS, or PHX, connecting the dots between existing cities, a combination of the three, or something else.

some more love for RSW would be welcomed, and please for gods sake open SRQ!

F9 has a slew of new planes arriving next year (2019). The 18-20 new frames will fly somewhere, north-south in winter and east-west in summer with probably more that a few exceptions thrown in offset any predictability factors. Look for some more of the pre-2014 schedules to re-appear come next summer, maybe BTR.

Frontier 14

WNflyer1523 wrote:

717atOGG wrote:

RL757PVD wrote:

LF may not be everything for some of these F9 routes. PVD-RDU/CLT is being flown by an A321 with 230 seats on what I am assuming was a function of aircraft use/base. 75% on an A321 = 92% if they flew it on an A320.

I agree, this is probably what killed most of the ISP flights since many of them were flown on the A321 right off the bat. To add on, I feel like in some cases, their equipment for certain routes is kind of inappropriate.

For example, the upcoming PWM/SYR-MCO flights are being flown on the A321. Routes like those are more appropriate for the A320 IMO, and an example on the other end of the spectrum is routes like LAX-DEN or DEN-ORD, where all the flights are on the A320 or A319. These are better markets for the A321 where the extra capacity would be appreciated, and it’d free up the A319s for routes to smaller cities.

Exactly!! IMO the only route the A321 should be doing out of ISP is ISP-MCO.
What aircraft are they using on their new ALB, BMI, and GSP flights?

CLT-PVD is being flown with the proper aircraft. The A321 also rotates to the CLT-MCO run as well.

Really wish F9 would give BTV a try. With NK and G4 in PBG, BTV is perfect IMO for F9. Not to mention F9 starting ALB, seems like decent chance it could happen. An BTV-DEN/MCO/TPA maybe.

Quick question,

Since frontier is a new airline to our area, do they offer connecting flights or no?

Northwest1988 wrote:

Quick question,

Since frontier is a new airline to our area, do they offer connecting flights or no?

They do, but with the exception of some mini-connecting banks at DEN and CVG, rarely are they well-timed. F9’s network as a whole is just too low-frequency for connections.

I could also see Frontier trying out MHT. They could start off with 3-4x weekly MCO, and if that plays out well, add more flights to places like TPA, PBI, and RSW for the winter.
I've heard some negative things about the management at MHT though, so it could happen, or it couldn't.

NWADTWE16 wrote:

some more love for RSW would be welcomed, and please for gods sake open SRQ!

I think RSW is coming along nicely, but SRQ is very interesting. I know it's close to RSW but I think it helps open up Florida to the rest of the country, the eastern seaboard at least.

mariner

WNflyer1523 wrote:

I could also see Frontier trying out MHT. They could start off with 3-4x weekly MCO, and if that plays out well, add more flights to places like TPA, PBI, and RSW for the winter.
I've heard some negative things about the management at MHT though, so it could happen, or it couldn't.

BTV maybe, they've flown to smaller markets than Burlington, but again flying to MHT would only hurt their fledgling routes out of PWM.

mariner wrote:

NWADTWE16 wrote:

some more love for RSW would be welcomed, and please for gods sake open SRQ!

I think RSW is coming along nicely, but SRQ is very interesting. I know it's close to RSW but I think it helps open up Florida to the rest of the country, the eastern seaboard at least.

mariner

If SRQ is close to RSW (which it is), not sure what we can call its relationship to TPA, which is next door. SRQ is a slightly niche market (i.e. higher end), but essentially part of the TPA metro. Not sure I see the value proposition of opening it up without a strategy for differentiating it to customers (or nice subsidies from SRQ).

axiom wrote:

If SRQ is close to RSW (which it is), not sure what we can call its relationship to TPA, which is next door. SRQ is a slightly niche market (i.e. higher end), but essentially part of the TPA metro. Not sure I see the value proposition of opening it up without a strategy for differentiating it to customers (or nice subsidies from SRQ).

I was a big supporter of Frontier when they tried PIE for a while, which is certainly close to TPA than SRQ. But it didn't work - or it didn't work then. I'd very much like to see them give it another shot a little further away from TPA.

mariner

mariner wrote:

axiom wrote:

If SRQ is close to RSW (which it is), not sure what we can call its relationship to TPA, which is next door. SRQ is a slightly niche market (i.e. higher end), but essentially part of the TPA metro. Not sure I see the value proposition of opening it up without a strategy for differentiating it to customers (or nice subsidies from SRQ).

I was a big supporter of Frontier when they tried PIE for a while, which is certainly close to TPA than SRQ. But it didn't work - or it didn't work then. I'd very much like to see them give it another shot a little further away from TPA.

mariner

Not only did they try PIE...they tried PGD....so PGD/RSW is not the same market?

Honestly, with Allegiant here, I wouldn't be surprised to see F9 come in. Probably not NK though

727LOVER wrote:

Not only did they try PIE...they tried PGD....so PGD/RSW is not the same market?

Honestly, with Allegiant here, I wouldn't be surprised to see F9 come in. Probably not NK though

I wouldn't be surprised to see them come into SRQ, with or without Allegiant. It isn't a prediction, merely a comment win their route map.

mariner

I was looking forward to Frontier starting PWM in a few weeks. I wanted to try them out to get to California. However, the itinaries completely suck.

PWM-DEN arrived around 9pm, and then there's a ten hour layover in the middle of the night for connections to the West Coast. Total travel times to a lot of West Coast connections were like 18-20 hours! Coming east bound from the west coast, the timing of the flights was no better.

What was the logic for starting this flight if travelers can't make easy connections to the rest of their network? Isn't this pretty much making this flight dependent on being filled by traverlets only going to/from DEN.

Do any of their other new routes have such crappy travel times that using them is a waste of time to save $100