ctrabs0114 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

Flights to Europe would likely be launched through code-sharing agreements with other airline carriers, he said.

To do that, "we need foreign currency, foreign language, then there are other technologies that will likely need to support connecting with other airlines," Kelly said, "but that is also something I hope to undertake within the next five years."

Wasn't one of the stumbling blocks to past WN code-shares (FL merger notwithstanding) opposition by WN's pilot union to any code share scheme? Or was I misremembering that?

The FL purchase never involved any type of codeshare, so that was never an issue. The contract signed in 2016 allows for certain types of codeshare as well as interlines agreements - both with strict limitations and conditions.

The current WN Pilot contract allows limited codeshare (with some airlines excluded) to far international destinations. Once WN reaches a certain threshold of passengers being carried by the codeshare partner then WN has to start flying the route themselves.

Any early rumblings on new routes tied to tomorrow's schedule extension? I know things tend to leak every now and then.

DeltaRules wrote:

Any early rumblings on new routes tied to tomorrow's schedule extension? I know things tend to leak every now and then.

Definitely no Hawaii it will be it's own separate big hoopla announcement!
Expect just seasonal shifts for holiday travel.
LGA and DCA additional slot adds.
Additional HAV slot.
Maybe PAE and LGB Additions also.

Flyguy

ibthebigd wrote:

If they don't announce Hawaii schedule tomorrow when would they?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

That's everyone's question hahahahaha!
I'm guessing once they get the go ahead from the FAA for Proving Runs it will be 3 month of ticket sales to start date!
Hypothetically speaking if they do Proving Runs in July I'm gonna guess start date sometime in October or November.

I'm definitely sticking with nothing tomorrow in regards to Hawaii.

Flyguy

ibthebigd wrote:

If they don't announce Hawaii schedule tomorrow when would they?

Probably not until the Fall when they'd be ready to start selling tickets at the same time.

wnflyguy wrote:

Definitely no Hawaii it will be it's own separate big hoopla announcement!
Expect just seasonal shifts for holiday travel.
LGA and DCA additional slot adds.
Additional HAV slot.
Maybe PAE and LGB Additions also.

Flyguy

I would agree with all but PAE flights. That is a brand new airport for WN, just like Hawaii, so why would they not make a separate announcement when the details of service to PAE are released? It would shock me if PAE skeds just show up tomorrow.

bb

SANFan wrote:

wnflyguy wrote:

Definitely no Hawaii it will be it's own separate big hoopla announcement!
Expect just seasonal shifts for holiday travel.
LGA and DCA additional slot adds.
Additional HAV slot.
Maybe PAE and LGB Additions also.

Flyguy

I would agree with all but PAE flights. That is a brand new airport for WN, just like Hawaii, so why would they not make a separate announcement when the details of service to PAE are released? It would shock me if PAE skeds just show up tomorrow.
bb

This will probably be its typical bread and butter seasonal holiday travel shifts release.
I call it the Swiss cheese schedule.
Why? Because you can usually pick over the schedule and notice unmatched aircraft turn times.
That's always a good indication of possible new flying planned for a later announcement.

Flyguy

As I expected, for SAN, nothing new. Well, we did get 2 added frequencies -- 1 each to PDX and SMF -- so we stand at 114 weekday departures which isn't bad! That's 12 more departures than last Nov's schedule so I can't say there hasn't been very nice growth/expansion in the last year!

There was of course no Hawaii, nor PAE announcements but I hope we will see both soon! I have a feeling both of those will further grow SAN's list of destinations and daily departures. Rumors out there talk of 4 new gates at SAN for WN -- bringing our total to 15! With our number of departures moving well past 100 and heading for 120 as the next goal, I think more gates will definitely come in handy.

bb

ht

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/04/southwe ... wing-.html

"Southwest Airlines preps for revenue drop after fatal accident, scales back growth"
"Southwest also warned that it is trimming its growth plans this year because of a surge in fuel prices, increasing capacity, or the number of seats it offers, in the low 4 percent range from a previous plan of around 5 percent."
"Southwest Airlines on Monday said it expects revenue to fall in the second quarter after a decline in bookings following a deadly engine failure aboard one of its flights in April.

"Southwest, which carries more travelers within the U.S. than any other airline, forecast a 3 percent drop compared with a year ago, in the revenue it generates per each seat it flies a mile, a key industry metric. The airline had warned of a 1 percent to 3 percent drop in operating revenue per available seat mile in April following the accident after it pulled marketing."

Interestingly, today F9 announced service in both of WN's seasonal markets out of SAN -- IND and MKE. (I do not consider SAN-GEG as a seasonal route; I count it as a dropped route.)

I couldn't really care less about the F9 service in the markets EXCEPT that perhaps it will shake WN up a bit and encourage them to make both of those markets year-round and permanent! Apparently SAN-IND will be year-round on F9 which could be even more influential on WN's hopeful upgrading of the route. I have no idea about SAN-MKE.

I know that WN is reactive to moves made by AS at SAN but I don't really know if F9 has much effect on WN. We'll see.

bb

Will WN pull out of GSP within the next year? WN carried fewer passengers out of GSP between March 2017 and February 2018 than at every other WN station except for FNT, which WN pulled out earlier this week.

Here is the number of passengers per year out of the smallest WN stations in the contiguous U.S. still served by WN along with some of the WN stations that WN has pulled out of:
BKG - 200,000 passengers per year on WN (June 2013 - May 2014) - WN pulled out of BKG in June 2014
FNT - 211,000 passengers per year on WN (March 2017 - February 2018) - WN pulled out of FNT on 6/6/2018
GSP - 214,000 passengers per year on WN (March 2017 - February 2018) - still served by WN
DAY - 216,000 passengers per year on WN (June 2016 - May 2017) - WN pulled out of DAY in June 2017
CRP - 218,000 passengers per year on WN (March 2017 - February 2018) - still served by WN
EYW - 228,000 passengers per year on WN (June 2013 - May 2014) - WN pulled out of EYW in June 2014
CAK - 238,000 passengers per year on WN (June 2016 - May 2017) - WN pulled out of CAK in June 2017
RIC - 246,000 passengers per year on WN (March 2017 - February 2018) - still served by WN
DSM - 252,000 passengers per year on WN (March 2017 - February 2018) - still served by WN
JAN - 268,000 passengers per year on WN (June 2013 - May 2014) - WN pulled out of JAN in June 2014
ICT - 299,000 passengers per year on WN (March 2017 - February 2018) - still served by WN

How could WN sustain service at GSP, CRP, RIC, and DSM but not at JAN if all four of these markets currently have less demand for WN service than JAN did right before the discontinuation of WN service out of JAN in June 2014?

jplatts wrote:

Will WN pull out of GSP within the next year? WN carried fewer passengers out of GSP between March 2017 and February 2018 than at every other WN station except for FNT, which WN pulled out earlier this week.

How could WN sustain service at GSP, CRP, RIC, and DSM but not at JAN if all four of these markets currently have less demand for WN service than JAN did right before the discontinuation of WN service out of JAN in June 2014?

Routes are generally kept because they deliver on 1) performance 2) potential or 3) strategic contribution or some combination thereof. If it doesn't fall into those categories it is generally on borrowed time at any airline,

Midwestindy wrote:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/04/southwest-expects-revenue-decline-following-.html

"Southwest Airlines preps for revenue drop after fatal accident, scales back growth"
"Southwest also warned that it is trimming its growth plans this year because of a surge in fuel prices, increasing capacity, or the number of seats it offers, in the low 4 percent range from a previous plan of around 5 percent."
"Southwest Airlines on Monday said it expects revenue to fall in the second quarter after a decline in bookings following a deadly engine failure aboard one of its flights in April.

"Southwest, which carries more travelers within the U.S. than any other airline, forecast a 3 percent drop compared with a year ago, in the revenue it generates per each seat it flies a mile, a key industry metric. The airline had warned of a 1 percent to 3 percent drop in operating revenue per available seat mile in April following the accident after it pulled marketing."

Well I haven't seen prices out of CRP getting any lower. I find WN prices out of SAT, AUS, and HOU worth the drive from Corpus Christi, especially if there are multiple people taking the same flights.

flyingclrs727 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/04/southwest-expects-revenue-decline-following-.html

"Southwest Airlines preps for revenue drop after fatal accident, scales back growth"
"Southwest also warned that it is trimming its growth plans this year because of a surge in fuel prices, increasing capacity, or the number of seats it offers, in the low 4 percent range from a previous plan of around 5 percent."
"Southwest Airlines on Monday said it expects revenue to fall in the second quarter after a decline in bookings following a deadly engine failure aboard one of its flights in April.

"Southwest, which carries more travelers within the U.S. than any other airline, forecast a 3 percent drop compared with a year ago, in the revenue it generates per each seat it flies a mile, a key industry metric. The airline had warned of a 1 percent to 3 percent drop in operating revenue per available seat mile in April following the accident after it pulled marketing."

Well I haven't seen prices out of CRP getting any lower. I find WN prices out of SAT, AUS, and HOU worth the drive from Corpus Christi, especially if there are multiple people taking the same flights.

It's not texas that's the problem. The issue is California where they are engaged in a turf war with AS. They are just blaming this on the accident. The reality is their revenue is down due to competition and they don't want investors to think it's more than just an one time blip. So west coast yield is down, which is why SFO-PDX/SNA are getting canned. They've gone full NW on AS. You will probably hear AS come out and talk about declining yield in the coming month also. It's a great time out there for passengers but brutal for airlines.

They are getting hammered at BOS, EWR and FLL. That's why you saw cuts there in the most recent schedule update.

SANFan wrote:

Interestingly, today F9 announced service in both of WN's seasonal markets out of SAN -- IND and MKE. (I do not consider SAN-GEG as a seasonal route; I count it as a dropped route.)

I couldn't really care less about the F9 service in the markets EXCEPT that perhaps it will shake WN up a bit and encourage them to make both of those markets year-round and permanent! Apparently SAN-IND will be year-round on F9 which could be even more influential on WN's hopeful upgrading of the route. I have no idea about SAN-MKE.

I know that WN is reactive to moves made by AS at SAN but I don't really know if F9 has much effect on WN. We'll see.

bb

F9 also added 2x/weekly service between SAN and PIT, for what that's worth. SAN-PIT was a market I was hoping WN would enter as SAN has long been a top 25 domestic destination not served by a non-stop from PIT.

jplatts wrote:

Will WN pull out of GSP within the next year? WN carried fewer passengers out of GSP between March 2017 and February 2018 than at every other WN station except for FNT, which WN pulled out earlier this week.

Here is the number of passengers per year out of the smallest WN stations in the contiguous U.S. still served by WN along with some of the WN stations that WN has pulled out of:
BKG - 200,000 passengers per year on WN (June 2013 - May 2014) - WN pulled out of BKG in June 2014
FNT - 211,000 passengers per year on WN (March 2017 - February 2018) - WN pulled out of FNT on 6/6/2018
GSP - 214,000 passengers per year on WN (March 2017 - February 2018) - still served by WN
DAY - 216,000 passengers per year on WN (June 2016 - May 2017) - WN pulled out of DAY in June 2017
CRP - 218,000 passengers per year on WN (March 2017 - February 2018) - still served by WN
EYW - 228,000 passengers per year on WN (June 2013 - May 2014) - WN pulled out of EYW in June 2014
CAK - 238,000 passengers per year on WN (June 2016 - May 2017) - WN pulled out of CAK in June 2017
RIC - 246,000 passengers per year on WN (March 2017 - February 2018) - still served by WN
DSM - 252,000 passengers per year on WN (March 2017 - February 2018) - still served by WN
JAN - 268,000 passengers per year on WN (June 2013 - May 2014) - WN pulled out of JAN in June 2014
ICT - 299,000 passengers per year on WN (March 2017 - February 2018) - still served by WN

How could WN sustain service at GSP, CRP, RIC, and DSM but not at JAN if all four of these markets currently have less demand for WN service than JAN did right before the discontinuation of WN service out of JAN in June 2014?

EYW was more of a safety concern with the Runway limitations especially during wet weather causing landings limits that affected payload and baggage.
Key west is long overdue for relocating Airline operations to the NAS with a joint use situation.

GSP ATL feed is actually profitable with a passenger plus cargo mathematical equation!

Flyguy

tphuang wrote:

flyingclrs727 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/04/southwest-expects-revenue-decline-following-.html

"Southwest Airlines preps for revenue drop after fatal accident, scales back growth"
"Southwest also warned that it is trimming its growth plans this year because of a surge in fuel prices, increasing capacity, or the number of seats it offers, in the low 4 percent range from a previous plan of around 5 percent."
"Southwest Airlines on Monday said it expects revenue to fall in the second quarter after a decline in bookings following a deadly engine failure aboard one of its flights in April.

"Southwest, which carries more travelers within the U.S. than any other airline, forecast a 3 percent drop compared with a year ago, in the revenue it generates per each seat it flies a mile, a key industry metric. The airline had warned of a 1 percent to 3 percent drop in operating revenue per available seat mile in April following the accident after it pulled marketing."

Well I haven't seen prices out of CRP getting any lower. I find WN prices out of SAT, AUS, and HOU worth the drive from Corpus Christi, especially if there are multiple people taking the same flights.

It's not texas that's the problem. The issue is California where they are engaged in a turf war with AS. They are just blaming this on the accident. The reality is their revenue is down due to competition and they don't want investors to think it's more than just an one time blip. So west coast yield is down, which is why SFO-PDX/SNA are getting canned. They've gone full NW on AS. You will probably hear AS come out and talk about declining yield in the coming month also. It's a great time out there for passengers but brutal for airlines.

They are getting hammered at BOS, EWR and FLL. That's why you saw cuts there in the most recent schedule update.

How has BOS schedule changed since WN has been there? Start peak and now?

Will WN ever add new nonstop routes out of ATL such as ATL-ABQ, ATL-CVG, ATL-PDX, ATL-SMF, or ATL-SJC? While most of WN's nonstop service out of ATL is to former AirTran markets, WN does currently serve GSP (which wasn't located in a former AirTran market) nonstop from ATL.

tomaheath wrote:

tphuang wrote:

flyingclrs727 wrote:

Well I haven't seen prices out of CRP getting any lower. I find WN prices out of SAT, AUS, and HOU worth the drive from Corpus Christi, especially if there are multiple people taking the same flights.

It's not texas that's the problem. The issue is California where they are engaged in a turf war with AS. They are just blaming this on the accident. The reality is their revenue is down due to competition and they don't want investors to think it's more than just an one time blip. So west coast yield is down, which is why SFO-PDX/SNA are getting canned. They've gone full NW on AS. You will probably hear AS come out and talk about declining yield in the coming month also. It's a great time out there for passengers but brutal for airlines.

They are getting hammered at BOS, EWR and FLL. That's why you saw cuts there in the most recent schedule update.

How has BOS schedule changed since WN has been there? Start peak and now?

not really sure, but they have cut back BOS-ATL in some months and also CMH/IND. STL is doing well, because they face no competition.

The next WN schedule extension is on June 28th, which is two weeks from this Thursday. Is WN going to be announcing any new nonstop routes on June 28th, or is this just going to be simply an extension of the current WN schedule?

jplatts wrote:

The next WN schedule extension is on June 28th, which is two weeks from this Thursday. Is WN going to be announcing any new nonstop routes on June 28th, or is this just going to be simply an extension of the current WN schedule?

I'm sure there will be something new. I guess we will see on the 28th.

jplatts wrote:

The next WN schedule extension is on June 28th, which is two weeks from this Thursday. Is WN going to be announcing any new nonstop routes on June 28th, or is this just going to be simply an extension of the current WN schedule?

Is Hawai’i a possibility for this schedule extension? I highly doubt PAE will be added in this one with the recent delays of the Terminal building.

Does anyone have figures on how many more A/C WN will have by the Fall than they do now?

jplatts wrote:

The next WN schedule extension is on June 28th, which is two weeks from this Thursday. Is WN going to be announcing any new nonstop routes on June 28th, or is this just going to be simply an extension of the current WN schedule?

Since Alaska & Delta want to funnel passengers through Seattle, I am still hoping Southwest Airlines adds more service to Portland, Oregon. At many airports, Southwest Airlines is the #1 airline with the most service.

dc10lover wrote:

jplatts wrote:

The next WN schedule extension is on June 28th, which is two weeks from this Thursday. Is WN going to be announcing any new nonstop routes on June 28th, or is this just going to be simply an extension of the current WN schedule?

Since Alaska & Delta want to funnel passengers through Seattle, I am still hoping Southwest Airlines adds more service to Portland, Oregon. At many airports, Southwest Airlines is the #1 airline with the most service.

BNA-PDX would be ideal.

jplatts wrote:

The next WN schedule extension is on June 28th, which is two weeks from this Thursday. Is WN going to be announcing any new nonstop routes on June 28th, or is this just going to be simply an extension of the current WN schedule?

LGB temporary slots will get extended into November. December will be extended in July.
Until JetBlue legally hands the slots back to the city.
Wouldn't be surprised to see LGB-DEN go daily for the November/December holiday season. Reduce LGB-LAS from 3 to 2 daily make it 800 line vs a 700.

PAE is on hold until the FAA review is finished.
I'm going to say spring 2019 now.

Hawaii is possible if rumors are true for a October or November start date?

But because of fuel prices WN scaled back growth by 2% in the Fall 2018. I wouldn't be surprised to see some older NG700's retired in place of growth. Especially since PAE most likely delayed until next year.

No new rumors other than Hawaii speculation.

Flyguy

wnflyguy wrote:

But because of fuel prices WN scaled back growth by 2% in the Fall 2018. I wouldn't be surprised to see some older NG700's retired in place of growth. Especially since PAE most likely delayed until next year.

So, on the heels of the 733 retirements last year, would WN have enough planes to meet schedules if they started retiring some 73Gs before more Max 8's arrive?

ctrabs0114 wrote:

wnflyguy wrote:

But because of fuel prices WN scaled back growth by 2% in the Fall 2018. I wouldn't be surprised to see some older NG700's retired in place of growth. Especially since PAE most likely delayed until next year.

So, on the heels of the 733 retirements last year, would WN have enough planes to meet schedules if they started retiring some 73Gs before more Max 8's arrive?

WN turning the corner I believe this month to a fleet positive position from now until 2025. So they definitely have room to scale back growth a bit and retire some older 700's going forward.

Flyguy

wnflyguy wrote:

jplatts wrote:

Will WN pull out of GSP within the next year? WN carried fewer passengers out of GSP between March 2017 and February 2018 than at every other WN station except for FNT, which WN pulled out earlier this week.

Here is the number of passengers per year out of the smallest WN stations in the contiguous U.S. still served by WN along with some of the WN stations that WN has pulled out of:
BKG - 200,000 passengers per year on WN (June 2013 - May 2014) - WN pulled out of BKG in June 2014
FNT - 211,000 passengers per year on WN (March 2017 - February 2018) - WN pulled out of FNT on 6/6/2018
GSP - 214,000 passengers per year on WN (March 2017 - February 2018) - still served by WN
DAY - 216,000 passengers per year on WN (June 2016 - May 2017) - WN pulled out of DAY in June 2017
CRP - 218,000 passengers per year on WN (March 2017 - February 2018) - still served by WN
EYW - 228,000 passengers per year on WN (June 2013 - May 2014) - WN pulled out of EYW in June 2014
CAK - 238,000 passengers per year on WN (June 2016 - May 2017) - WN pulled out of CAK in June 2017
RIC - 246,000 passengers per year on WN (March 2017 - February 2018) - still served by WN
DSM - 252,000 passengers per year on WN (March 2017 - February 2018) - still served by WN
JAN - 268,000 passengers per year on WN (June 2013 - May 2014) - WN pulled out of JAN in June 2014
ICT - 299,000 passengers per year on WN (March 2017 - February 2018) - still served by WN

How could WN sustain service at GSP, CRP, RIC, and DSM but not at JAN if all four of these markets currently have less demand for WN service than JAN did right before the discontinuation of WN service out of JAN in June 2014?

EYW was more of a safety concern with the Runway limitations especially during wet weather causing landings limits that affected payload and baggage.
Key west is long overdue for relocating Airline operations to the NAS with a joint use situation.

GSP ATL feed is actually profitable with a passenger plus cargo mathematical equation!

Flyguy

I was going to say, WN could easily make money in EYW. However I don't think they have the same STOL package that DL has on their 737-700s so WN would take a payload hit, while I think the only limitations for DL is the one checked bag per passenger. I've never actually heard of weight restrictions (bumping pax) on DL's 737 flights to/from EYW, but I have on their CR7 flights. The one thing I will say is that WN is sorely missed down there (not by me, but by others) and they would most likely be welcomed back with open arms. Flights from MCO, TPA, ( which they already flew before, but not sure if these flights suffered like MSY did) and even FLL would probably be better suited for the airport, MSY was a bit much since it's roughly the same distance as EYW-ATL, but with aircraft that may not be as well equipped to fly that distance off of a short runway. With MCO and TPA roughly a third of the distance, I would say that WN could probably make a second go of those cities, but maybe with more than one daily flight, especially considering Silver's lousy reputation among visitors to the Great Conch Republic.

Haven't seen any post yet but looks like WN using available excess capacity slot on Sundays only October-December 2018 to add SNA-ABQ
#5218
13:30-16:25
ABQ-SNA
#3652
12:00-12:50

Flyguy

If WN are looking for a new destination, BLI would be a good choice. A market of 2+million within an hour drive; and AS are too busy with the VX merger, and new expansion at PAE.

WN summary data (domestic + international) 2017:
Southwest PASSENGERS SEATS LF (%) PDEW (onboard) Stage Length ASMs RPMs Passengers/Flight Seats/Flight Flight Length (Hours) Sum of Aircraft Block Utilization Per Day (Hours)
Grand Total 162441791 200877219 80.87% 445046.0027 878.1174323 6.38E+15 5.16E+15 120.5164187 147.2576252 2.058186603 7600.522237

More data available here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

Top WN markets by domestic passengers per year:
Greater Los Angeles (LAX/BUR/SNA/ONT/LGB) - 21,939,000
Baltimore/Washington Region (BWI/DCA/IAD) - 21,384,000
Chicagoland (MDW) - 20,123,000
San Francisco Bay Area (OAK/SFO/SJC) - 18,472,000
Denver (DEN) - 18,024,000
Las Vegas (LAS) - 17,674,000
Greater Phoenix (PHX) - 15,265,000
DFW Metroplex (DAL) - 14,091,000
Greater Houston (HOU) - 11,543,000
Orlando (MCO) - 10,711,000
Atlanta (ATL) - 9,891,000
San Diego (SAN) - 8,682,000

evank516 wrote:

However I don't think they have the same STOL package that DL has on their 737-700s so WN would take a payload hit, while I think the only limitations for DL is the one checked bag per passenger.

It's not the lack of a "STOL Package"...keep in mind that WN's 737-700's operate like champs in and out of MDW all day. This is second-hand info, but...it was the inability to calculate wet runway performance numbers the way DL and FL do/did that ultimately forced WN out of the market. I believe there is an OpSpec exemption that allows a crowned/grooved runway to be considered "dry" for the purposes of takeoff & landing performance calculations...DL and FL have/had it; WN doesn't. Also, DL's 737-700's have 19 fewer seats than WN's...so, even without the exemption, they're already at a ~3500 pound advantage.

When the runways were wet at KEYW (which, in the summertime, is quite often)...WN couldn't legally dispatch to/from Key West without taking massive performance hits. Thus, it just wasn't viable.

dc10lover wrote:

jplatts wrote:

The next WN schedule extension is on June 28th, which is two weeks from this Thursday. Is WN going to be announcing any new nonstop routes on June 28th, or is this just going to be simply an extension of the current WN schedule?

Since Alaska & Delta want to funnel passengers through Seattle, I am still hoping Southwest Airlines adds more service to Portland, Oregon. At many airports, Southwest Airlines is the #1 airline with the most service.

I think Southwest's next adds at PDX should be PDX-BNA and PDX-MKE.

MaverickTTT wrote:

evank516 wrote:

However I don't think they have the same STOL package that DL has on their 737-700s so WN would take a payload hit, while I think the only limitations for DL is the one checked bag per passenger.

It's not the lack of a "STOL Package"...keep in mind that WN's 737-700's operate like champs in and out of MDW all day. This is second-hand info, but...it was the inability to calculate wet runway performance numbers the way DL and FL do/did that ultimately forced WN out of the market. I believe there is an OpSpec exemption that allows a crowned/grooved runway to be considered "dry" for the purposes of takeoff & landing performance calculations...DL and FL have/had it; WN doesn't. Also, DL's 737-700's have 19 fewer seats than WN's...so, even without the exemption, they're already at a ~3500 pound advantage.

When the runways were wet at KEYW (which, in the summertime, is quite often)...WN couldn't legally dispatch to/from Key West without taking massive performance hits. Thus, it just wasn't viable.

Also WN pilots our know for always wanting 1000 Pounds of extra gas over the planned dispatch release.
Ive heard if they saw any weather down in EYW they always wanted a that extra 1000 pounds of gas which equaled reduction in PAX or baggage. This added to only having a daily flight to Each MCO,TPA and MSY made for a Customer service nightmare because the flights were always full.
WN is also backing the political leaders that want the commercial flights moved to NAS on Boca Chica field. Proposed plans called for a small beach themed 5 parking spot terminal like LGB without jetways. WN said it could add up to 15 daily flights during peak season. Even JetBlue was behind the move with proposed service to 6 to 8 eastern markets. From what I understand WN only other complaint was the safety issue with aircraft over runs areas. But EYW has now done the requirements to meet WN standards.
The 7377MAX will have amazing short field performance over the 7377NG. This is predicted to eliminate restrictions at not only BUR,SNA but make the Return to EYW possibly.

I think WN with the safety issues fixed at EYW could easily return. With 3 daily flights to MCO only. This time feeding the connections via MCO.


Flyguy

MaverickTTT wrote:

evank516 wrote:

However I don't think they have the same STOL package that DL has on their 737-700s so WN would take a payload hit, while I think the only limitations for DL is the one checked bag per passenger.

It's not the lack of a "STOL Package"...keep in mind that WN's 737-700's operate like champs in and out of MDW all day. This is second-hand info, but...it was the inability to calculate wet runway performance numbers the way DL and FL do/did that ultimately forced WN out of the market. I believe there is an OpSpec exemption that allows a crowned/grooved runway to be considered "dry" for the purposes of takeoff & landing performance calculations...DL and FL have/had it; WN doesn't. Also, DL's 737-700's have 19 fewer seats than WN's...so, even without the exemption, they're already at a ~3500 pound advantage.

When the runways were wet at KEYW (which, in the summertime, is quite often)...WN couldn't legally dispatch to/from Key West without taking massive performance hits. Thus, it just wasn't viable.

WN's 737-700s do operate out of MDW like champs, but MDWs runways have about 2000 more feet (take off) and 1000 more feet (landing) than EYW does. 1,000 feet makes a difference. EYW is less than 5,000 feet.

Why did WN keep ATL-RIC nonstop service after the WN-FL merger but drop FL ATL-BUF, ATL-CLT, ATL-MEM, ATL-PWM, ATL-ROC, and ATL-ICT nonstop service?

It seems unusual for WN to not have dropped ATL-RIC nonstop service inherited through the WN-FL merger when many markets similar in size to RIC have lost nonstop service to ATL on WN subsequent to the WN-FL merger, but ATL is currently the only destination that is served nonstop out of RIC on WN. How could WN's ATL-RIC nonstop service survive the service cuts made by WN at ATL and other former FL stations following the WN-FL merger, but other markets similar in size to RIC lose nonstop service to ATL on WN following the WN-FL merger?

jplatts wrote:

Why did WN keep ATL-RIC nonstop service after the WN-FL merger but drop FL ATL-BUF, ATL-CLT, ATL-MEM, ATL-PWM, ATL-ROC, and ATL-ICT nonstop service?

It seems unusual for WN to not have dropped ATL-RIC nonstop service inherited through the WN-FL merger when many markets similar in size to RIC have lost nonstop service to ATL on WN subsequent to the WN-FL merger, but ATL is currently the only destination that is served nonstop out of RIC on WN. How could WN's ATL-RIC nonstop service survive the service cuts made by WN at ATL and other former FL stations following the WN-FL merger, but other markets similar in size to RIC lose nonstop service to ATL on WN following the WN-FL merger?

Those other ones probably did not really have a lot of O&D, and even if they did it probably was not much against Delta. Especially MEM-ATL.

wnflyguy wrote:

MaverickTTT wrote:

evank516 wrote:

However I don't think they have the same STOL package that DL has on their 737-700s so WN would take a payload hit, while I think the only limitations for DL is the one checked bag per passenger.

It's not the lack of a "STOL Package"...keep in mind that WN's 737-700's operate like champs in and out of MDW all day. This is second-hand info, but...it was the inability to calculate wet runway performance numbers the way DL and FL do/did that ultimately forced WN out of the market. I believe there is an OpSpec exemption that allows a crowned/grooved runway to be considered "dry" for the purposes of takeoff & landing performance calculations...DL and FL have/had it; WN doesn't. Also, DL's 737-700's have 19 fewer seats than WN's...so, even without the exemption, they're already at a ~3500 pound advantage.

When the runways were wet at KEYW (which, in the summertime, is quite often)...WN couldn't legally dispatch to/from Key West without taking massive performance hits. Thus, it just wasn't viable.

Also WN pilots our know for always wanting 1000 Pounds of extra gas over the planned dispatch release.
Ive heard if they saw any weather down in EYW they always wanted a that extra 1000 pounds of gas which equaled reduction in PAX or baggage. This added to only having a daily flight to Each MCO,TPA and MSY made for a Customer service nightmare because the flights were always full.
WN is also backing the political leaders that want the commercial flights moved to NAS on Boca Chica field. Proposed plans called for a small beach themed 5 parking spot terminal like LGB without jetways. WN said it could add up to 15 daily flights during peak season. Even JetBlue was behind the move with proposed service to 6 to 8 eastern markets. From what I understand WN only other complaint was the safety issue with aircraft over runs areas. But EYW has now done the requirements to meet WN standards.
The 7377MAX will have amazing short field performance over the 7377NG. This is predicted to eliminate restrictions at not only BUR,SNA but make the Return to EYW possibly.

I think WN with the safety issues fixed at EYW could easily return. With 3 daily flights to MCO only. This time feeding the connections via MCO.


Flyguy

There would be plenty of people I know that travel to EYW that would love to see WN go back in. 3x MCO-EYW would be great. I hope this happens!

WN extended the 2 Additional SMF-LGB and 3 LAS-LGB flights until November 31 2018.
December additions will be extended in August. Or until JetBlue officially releases the slots back to the airport for reallocation.

Flyguy

wnflyguy wrote:

MaverickTTT wrote:

evank516 wrote:

However I don't think they have the same STOL package that DL has on their 737-700s so WN would take a payload hit, while I think the only limitations for DL is the one checked bag per passenger.

It's not the lack of a "STOL Package"...keep in mind that WN's 737-700's operate like champs in and out of MDW all day. This is second-hand info, but...it was the inability to calculate wet runway performance numbers the way DL and FL do/did that ultimately forced WN out of the market. I believe there is an OpSpec exemption that allows a crowned/grooved runway to be considered "dry" for the purposes of takeoff & landing performance calculations...DL and FL have/had it; WN doesn't. Also, DL's 737-700's have 19 fewer seats than WN's...so, even without the exemption, they're already at a ~3500 pound advantage.

When the runways were wet at KEYW (which, in the summertime, is quite often)...WN couldn't legally dispatch to/from Key West without taking massive performance hits. Thus, it just wasn't viable.

Also WN pilots our know for always wanting 1000 Pounds of extra gas over the planned dispatch release.
Ive heard if they saw any weather down in EYW they always wanted a that extra 1000 pounds of gas which equaled reduction in PAX or baggage. This added to only having a daily flight to Each MCO,TPA and MSY made for a Customer service nightmare because the flights were always full.
WN is also backing the political leaders that want the commercial flights moved to NAS on Boca Chica field. Proposed plans called for a small beach themed 5 parking spot terminal like LGB without jetways. WN said it could add up to 15 daily flights during peak season. Even JetBlue was behind the move with proposed service to 6 to 8 eastern markets. From what I understand WN only other complaint was the safety issue with aircraft over runs areas. But EYW has now done the requirements to meet WN standards.
The 7377MAX will have amazing short field performance over the 7377NG. This is predicted to eliminate restrictions at not only BUR,SNA but make the Return to EYW possibly.

I think WN with the safety issues fixed at EYW could easily return. With 3 daily flights to MCO only. This time feeding the connections via MCO.


Flyguy

When is WN slated to take delivery of the 737-7MAX?

evank516 wrote:

When is WN slated to take delivery of the 737-7MAX?

The first Boeing 737 MAX 7 delivery to WN is scheduled to take place in January 2019. WN will probably be announcing the initial 737 MAX 7 routes in the upcoming schedule extension on August 16th since WN will likely be taking delivery of its first 737 MAX 7 planes prior to April 7, 2019 and since WN will be extending the schedule to April 7, 2019 on August 16th.

ibthebigd wrote:

How many seats will the Max 7 have?

While the 737 MAX 7 can accommodate 150 seats, there was an article at CNBC.com (which can be found at https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/03/southwest-airlines-wants-larger-boeing-737-max-8s-soon.html) that said that WN initially plans on operating the 737 MAX 7 planes with 143 seats.

jplatts wrote:

ibthebigd wrote:

How many seats will the Max 7 have?

While the 737 MAX 7 can accommodate 150 seats, there was an article at CNBC.com (which can be found at https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/03/southwest-airlines-wants-larger-boeing-737-max-8s-soon.html) that said that WN initially plans on operating the 737 MAX 7 planes with 143 seats.

That article is wrong. WN will take all MAX-7’s with 150 seats.