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OKCDCA
Topic Author
Posts: 300
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:50 am

At Risk Regional Flying

Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:53 pm

I stumbled across an article the other day about regional carriers and how they interact with their major counterparts with regards to costs, crews, marketing, etc... I did a search and couldn't really find much on this topic other than a lot of EAS routes being picked up at risk. I've got two questions regarding at risk flights and operations:
1) Do at risk regional flights marketed under the major carriers brand count against the number of flights allowed to be operated by regional carriers in pilot contracts and
2) If not, could a regional carrier set up a mini focus city and perform all at risk flying under the major carriers brand if they thought an opportunity existed for them to make a profit?

If these questions don't make sense let me know and I'll see if I can elaborate. I'm not really concerned with if somebody would do this, more if they could do it.
 
flyguy84
Posts: 770
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:26 pm

Re: At Risk Regional Flying

Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:57 pm

The number of flights generally isn’t what’s covered by scope language. It’s the total number of aircraft, number of seats in those aircraft, and max take off weight of those aircraft.

And SkyWest does quite a bit of at-risk flying currently under the United brand. But no, you’ll never see what you proposed.
Last edited by flyguy84 on Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
MO11
Posts: 1869
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: At Risk Regional Flying

Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:58 pm

OKCDCA wrote:
I stumbled across an article the other day about regional carriers and how they interact with their major counterparts with regards to costs, crews, marketing, etc... I did a search and couldn't really find much on this topic other than a lot of EAS routes being picked up at risk. I've got two questions regarding at risk flights and operations:
1) Do at risk regional flights marketed under the major carriers brand count against the number of flights allowed to be operated by regional carriers in pilot contracts and
2) If not, could a regional carrier set up a mini focus city and perform all at risk flying under the major carriers brand if they thought an opportunity existed for them to make a profit?

If these questions don't make sense let me know and I'll see if I can elaborate. I'm not really concerned with if somebody would do this, more if they could do it.



1. The "at risk" flying is done with 50-seat (or less) airplanes, which don't have caps. Before regional jets, it was all "at risk" using the turboprops.

2. The regional can't use the major's branding on any route without permission.
 
drdisque
Posts: 1474
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:57 am

Re: At Risk Regional Flying

Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:11 pm

MO11's answer is very accurate.

OO did have some at-risk routes for UA that were not operated into UA hubs, These were LAS-PSP/FAT, SEA-PDX/GEG/MWH (I believe other SEA flights may have been attempted), SMF-ACV however, I wouldn't call any of these a full blown "focus city"

Likewise the Trans States flights for US in the Northeast (PIT-STL, PIT-ALB, PIT-BDL, ALB-BUF, ALB-BOS) were all at-risk and did not operate into US hubs (they operated into former US hubs though)
 
OKCDCA
Topic Author
Posts: 300
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:50 am

Re: At Risk Regional Flying

Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:54 pm

flyguy84 wrote:
The number of flights generally isn’t what’s covered by scope language. It’s the total number of aircraft, number of seats in those aircraft, and max take off weight of those aircraft.

And SkyWest does quite a bit of at-risk flying currently under the United brand. But no, you’ll never see what you proposed.

Thanks flyguy, your first point is what I was trying to get at in this situation, if at risk flying was done with CR7/CR9/E75 type aircraft would it count against the scope clause since those are the aircraft typically covered by the scope clause?
 
drdisque
Posts: 1474
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:57 am

Re: At Risk Regional Flying

Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:17 pm

If they were incremental frames in addition to what was already under CPA contract, yes, they would count against scope. If they were jamming the flying in on frames that were already under contract, it would count under any % of seats metric that might exist but that's it.

That's probably why the reason pretty much all at-risk flying has been on props or 50 seaters.
 
mtnwest1979
Posts: 2211
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:23 am

Re: At Risk Regional Flying

Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:20 pm

#2. Trans States did that at SAT in early 2000s under the UA umbrella to places regional places like OKC COS and the like but I do not recollect exact cities. It certainly did not last long.



Via Wiki SAT entry, was February-September 2006 to 12 cities.
Last edited by mtnwest1979 on Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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