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Frontier14
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Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:44 pm

I would send all these emotional support people to the nut house. If you are inclined to bring your pet, pay for a private plane to take you where you want to go. United did it right this time.

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SmithAir747
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Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:46 pm

How about my emotional support alien (female alien)?

SmithAlien
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jnev3289
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Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:48 pm

litz wrote:
reffado wrote:
I mean, legally, ESAs do not qualify as service animals as far as I know, so it's up to the passenger to utilize common sense. A peacock as a pet is already a stretch. As an ESA, it's just a joke.


It's a two-edged sword ... as a business, you have to allow an ADA approved assist animal. ADA even goes so far as to define acceptable assist animals.

Then it says you cannot actually ask, in person/on the spot, a person claiming an animal for any proof said animal is actually an assist animal. That's what the fake-ESA people have been using as a loophole. Claim the animal, business demands proof, you scream discrimination, business backs off.

Delta is simply banning all animals, except those pre-approved, which neatly sidesteps that loophole, since it's not "in person" or "on the spot". It's ahead of time as a requirement of carriage.

Or at least that's how this very non-legal mind understands it ...

I'm sorry, but I don't think Delta is really doing anything because there's really nothing they can do. If I buy the note of a legitimate doctor off eBay for $20 that says I need an emotional support dog by my side, providing that 24 hours before departure is really no issue at all. I don't know how many people are just walking up and claiming their pet is "Emotional Support" and expecting to have Fido get on for free... I think the real issue is the doctor's selling their signature for a ham sandwich, and Delta has zero control over that.
Last edited by jnev3289 on Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:48 pm

Given the problems this program causes airlines, why not scrap it and let them travel by road and rail? Or does it make money?
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jnev3289
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Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:51 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
Given the problems this program causes airlines, why not scrap it and let them travel by road and rail? Or does it make money?

Starts with "M" and ends with "oney". It was $250 for me to take my Pomeranian with me to California for Christmas under the seat in front of me. Not all pet owners are scam artists
 
glbltrvlr
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Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:51 pm

Connecting in Denver a few days ago. A dog the size of a small horse is being led on a leash wearing a cloth coat stating "Emotional Support Animal In Training." Have no idea how they expected to get that animal on the plane.
 
NichCage
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Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:54 pm

This is getting way out of hand. If you have to bring a service dog onboard, it always should be allowed because they serve a purpose for people who have them. Don't bring something to exotic.
 
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JannEejit
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Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:02 pm

My emotional support lap dancer, doesn't even need her own seat. I do however have to bring a lot of folding currency. Maybe I should just drink more ? ;-)
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:24 pm

There are many cases where this is necessary. The vast majority of support animals are legit. Mostly people who are mentally challenged or veterans with PTSD.

I find it sad a bunch of people who were not brave enough to be in the military mocking a federally guaranteed right. I agree people twist it a very small amount of times but to make this a joke is sad and wrong. Shame on you.
 
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zeke
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Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:28 pm

What a peacock up !
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Blerg
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Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:28 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
There are many cases where this is necessary. The vast majority of support animals are legit. Mostly people who are mentally challenged or veterans with PTSD.

I find it sad a bunch of people who were not brave enough to be in the military mocking a federally guaranteed right. I agree people twist it a very small amount of times but to make this a joke is sad and wrong. Shame on you.


I am sorry but if people really needed an emotional support animal then this would have been a global thing, not a US one.
 
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jnev3289
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Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:33 pm

Blerg wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
There are many cases where this is necessary. The vast majority of support animals are legit. Mostly people who are mentally challenged or veterans with PTSD.

I find it sad a bunch of people who were not brave enough to be in the military mocking a federally guaranteed right. I agree people twist it a very small amount of times but to make this a joke is sad and wrong. Shame on you.


I am sorry but if people really needed an emotional support animal then this would have been a global thing, not a US one.

Wow, harsh. If it's not done worldwide then it's not valid I guess. Too bad the NFL is a failure. In-n-Out must be a miserable business considering it is only in the Southwest
 
Blerg
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Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:40 pm

jnev3289 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
There are many cases where this is necessary. The vast majority of support animals are legit. Mostly people who are mentally challenged or veterans with PTSD.

I find it sad a bunch of people who were not brave enough to be in the military mocking a federally guaranteed right. I agree people twist it a very small amount of times but to make this a joke is sad and wrong. Shame on you.


I am sorry but if people really needed an emotional support animal then this would have been a global thing, not a US one.

Wow, harsh. If it's not done worldwide then it's not valid I guess. Too bad the NFL is a failure. In-n-Out must be a miserable business considering it is only in the Southwest


We are talking about mental health here. If emotional support animals were such a great thing for people then it would have become a global phenomenon as was the case with antibiotics for example.
 
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JannEejit
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Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:48 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
There are many cases where this is necessary. The vast majority of support animals are legit. Mostly propose who are mentally challenged or veterans with PTSD.

I find it sad a bunch of people who were not brave enough to be in the military mocking a federally guaranteed right. I agree people twist it a very small amount of times but to make this a joke is sad and wrong. Shame on you.


Oh good for you and your moral high ground. We're talking specifically about a peacock here are we not ?
 
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jnev3289
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Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:53 pm

Blerg wrote:
jnev3289 wrote:
Blerg wrote:

I am sorry but if people really needed an emotional support animal then this would have been a global thing, not a US one.

Wow, harsh. If it's not done worldwide then it's not valid I guess. Too bad the NFL is a failure. In-n-Out must be a miserable business considering it is only in the Southwest


We are talking about mental health here. If emotional support animals were such a great thing for people then it would have become a global phenomenon as was the case with antibiotics for example.

Americans are significantly more involved with pets than the rest of the world. 1/3 of the global spending done on pets is from the US. Different people who grew up having attachments and meaning to different things will be impacted differently when they encounter stress and look to find support and comfort.
 
Blerg
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Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:07 pm

jnev3289 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
jnev3289 wrote:
Wow, harsh. If it's not done worldwide then it's not valid I guess. Too bad the NFL is a failure. In-n-Out must be a miserable business considering it is only in the Southwest


We are talking about mental health here. If emotional support animals were such a great thing for people then it would have become a global phenomenon as was the case with antibiotics for example.

Americans are significantly more involved with pets than the rest of the world. 1/3 of the global spending done on pets is from the US. Different people who grew up having attachments and meaning to different things will be impacted differently when they encounter stress and look to find support and comfort.


I guess you are right. Peacocks are known to provide a great deal of support and comfort. Same with turkeys. My bad.
 
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usxguy
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Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:12 pm

Delta requires that a vet / doctor uses their form now.
xx
 
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jnev3289
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Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:14 pm

Blerg wrote:
jnev3289 wrote:
Blerg wrote:

We are talking about mental health here. If emotional support animals were such a great thing for people then it would have become a global phenomenon as was the case with antibiotics for example.

Americans are significantly more involved with pets than the rest of the world. 1/3 of the global spending done on pets is from the US. Different people who grew up having attachments and meaning to different things will be impacted differently when they encounter stress and look to find support and comfort.


I guess you are right. Peacocks are known to provide a great deal of support and comfort. Same with turkeys. My bad.

No, obviously those are ridiculous, but to disparage all of emotional support animals is insensitive and just plain wrong.
 
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JannEejit
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Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:32 pm

jnev3289 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
jnev3289 wrote:
Wow, harsh. If it's not done worldwide then it's not valid I guess. Too bad the NFL is a failure. In-n-Out must be a miserable business considering it is only in the Southwest


We are talking about mental health here. If emotional support animals were such a great thing for people then it would have become a global phenomenon as was the case with antibiotics for example.

Americans are significantly more involved with pets than the rest of the world. 1/3 of the global spending done on pets is from the US. Different people who grew up having attachments and meaning to different things will be impacted differently when they encounter stress and look to find support and comfort.


So why doesn't the 2/3 of the rest of the world feel the need to bring little Tiddles on board for comfort ? I agree flying can be frightening and stressful for lots of people but other emotional support avenues are out there and explorable. I used to get really stressed before flying, eventually having done enough of it, the feeling left me, and long before I was checking for available wildlife to accompany me. How stressful is an airliner cabin experience for an animal anyway ?
 
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jnev3289
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Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:34 pm

JannEejit wrote:
jnev3289 wrote:
Blerg wrote:

We are talking about mental health here. If emotional support animals were such a great thing for people then it would have become a global phenomenon as was the case with antibiotics for example.

Americans are significantly more involved with pets than the rest of the world. 1/3 of the global spending done on pets is from the US. Different people who grew up having attachments and meaning to different things will be impacted differently when they encounter stress and look to find support and comfort.


So why doesn't the 2/3 of the rest of the world feel the need to bring little Tiddles on board for comfort ? I agree flying can be frightening and stressful for lots of people but other emotional support avenues are out there and explorable. I used to get really stressed before flying, eventually having done enough of it, the feeling left me, and long before I was checking for available wildlife to accompany me. How stressful is an airliner cabin experience for an animal anyway ?

Well this might come as a shock to you, but evidently not everyone is as mentally strong as you. I guess you believe they should be barred from flying then, a sort of 2nd class human with different sets of rights? It must be nice to be the arbiter of what is allowed to help emotionally distressed people feel safe and comforted.
 
ikramerica
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Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:06 pm

Semaex wrote:
reffado wrote:
I mean, legally, ESAs do not qualify as service animals as far as I know, so it's up to the passenger to utilize common sense. A peacock as a pet is already a stretch. As an ESA, it's just a joke.

Seriously though. If a dog or cat as an ESA isn't enough, maybe the person in question really has issues.
On the other hand, having a fancy animal like that as a pet may just be the source of the problem, not the solution.

But hey, in a country where lawyers get 80% of the value they fight over (that's just nuts!) I think it rather not strange if a psychologist advises a peacock at your side...

Exactly right. If a small domedticated animal can't provide you emotional support, that's your problem not the worlds.

This was clearly a scam to try to transport an exotic animal without going through the proper channels. Peacocks are not pets and don't provide emotional anything. They are exotic nuisances transplanted from South Asia that don't even belong in the USA.

When I drive through nearby towns where peacocks run free, it's cool to see them, but residents are treated to 4am scream feats every day.

At least the feral green parrots that come to my house every day wait until 8am to screech like banshees.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
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usmcav8tor
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Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:27 pm

hz747300 wrote:
Kikko19 wrote:
Finally some wisdom at the gate.


Why isn't this stopped at check-in?


I bet the guys at TSA were on the floor when the passenger got to control with a flipping peacock :lol:
 
ushermittwoch
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Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:27 pm

PPVLC wrote:
My emotional support is a pack of peanuts. I want to see who's more important, a peanut allergy sufferer or a peanut freak.


LOL!

To be honest though, what is the policy if pax are allergic to certain ESA animals? Who has to stay on the ground?

Also, what happens when an ESA lamb and an ESA wolf meet on the same aircraft?
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:47 pm

jnev3289 wrote:
Well this might come as a shock to you, but evidently not everyone is as mentally strong as you. I guess you believe they should be barred from flying then, a sort of 2nd class human with different sets of rights? It must be nice to be the arbiter of what is allowed to help emotionally distressed people feel safe and comforted.

I suffer from claustrophobia and travel sickness. The usual remedy is to travel with the window wide open.
I realise this is impossible in a modern airliner at altitude, so perhaps in order that I'm not relegated to being a second-class human, you could re-schedule any flight that I am on, re-routing it at low level and slower speeds, in order to allow the open-window policy I need. Just make sure I get a nice seat next to an emergency exit, with empty seats on either side of me, and the emergency exit left open for the duration of the flight.

Or would that be expecting too much?
Please don't claim I'm being ridiculous because that would make you "the arbiter of what is allowed.....".

Where would you draw the line in terms of inconveniencing 180 other passengers in order that this one passenger is treated "fairly"?

In all seriousness, that is what it comes down to.
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
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kgaiflyer
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Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:50 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
Completely support United Airlines on this one. If you need to travel with a support Peacock, you need to stay home and seek help. This is the kind of thing that only happens in America and the whole practice has gotten ludicrous.


Christmas day, I flew IAD-SFO with an red-vested wolf hound on a full plane. The dogs had come from CDG with his owner and had been flying all day. I was 7C and owner was 7A.

7B bailed and got off the plane (poor baby :) ).

Actually, the dog and I became buds. He even ate most of my dinner cheeseburger. He **just barely** made it off the plane and to a grassy strip after landing. So, I can understand how a large dog aboard a plane *could* be a problem.
 
United1
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Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:20 pm

litz wrote:
reffado wrote:
I mean, legally, ESAs do not qualify as service animals as far as I know, so it's up to the passenger to utilize common sense. A peacock as a pet is already a stretch. As an ESA, it's just a joke.


It's a two-edged sword ... as a business, you have to allow an ADA approved assist animal. ADA even goes so far as to define acceptable assist animals.
.


Just as a point of order its actually the Air Carrier Access Act that regulates service animals and ESA on aircraft....its very similar to the ADA but not quite the same. Airlines do have the ability to request documentation and do have wider latitude in denying "unusual" assist animals transit.

"For emotional support or psychiatric service animals, air carriers may request very specific diagnostic documentation 48 hours in advance of a flight. The documentation must be 1) current (not be more than one year old); 2) be on letterhead from a licensed mental health professional; 3) must state that the person has a mental or emotional disability recognized in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM IV); and 4) state that the animal is needed as an accommodation for air travel or for activity at the individual’s destination. The documentation should also state that the health professional is treating the individual and include the date and type of the mental health professional’s license and the state or other jurisdiction in which it was issued. It does not need to state the individual’s diagnosis.67

Unusual animals such as miniature horses, pigs, and monkeys may be allowed to travel as service animals.68 To determine whether the animal will be allowed in the cabin, the air carrier may take into account the animal’s size, weight, and whether the animal would pose a direct threat to the health or safety of others, or cause a significant disruption in cabin service. If the animal would pose or cause any of these things, the animal may have to travel in the cargo hold. In addition, if there are restrictions on any of these animals at the final destination point of travel, the animal may not be allowed to fly at all. Other unusual animals such as snakes, other reptiles, ferrets, rodents, and spiders may be denied boarding as they may pose other safety and public health concerns. Foreign carriers are required to transport only dogs as service animals.69"
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
chumley
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Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:27 pm

The reason this is a uniquely American "problem" and not global is a federal law in the United States called the Americans With Disabilities Act (ADA). And while it is full of good intentions, one provision that allows for misuse is the prohibition under the law of questioning one's claimed disability. By asking somebody what their disability is or to prove they have a disability, a business is in violation of the law and discriminating against the person with a disability (or pretending to have a disability). The logic behind that provision in the law is reasonable, but in practice it is easily abused. Ultimately a change in the law will be needed to prevent abuse such as false claims of ESAs traveling on aircraft.
 
slvrblt
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Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:41 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
There are many cases where this is necessary. The vast majority of support animals are legit. Mostly people who are mentally challenged or veterans with PTSD.

I find it sad a bunch of people who were not brave enough to be in the military mocking a federally guaranteed right. I agree people twist it a very small amount of times but to make this a joke is sad and wrong. Shame on you.


You have no idea what you're saying, you are clearly not aware of the scope of this problem. And people on here are not trashing legit service animals. It's the ESA's that are the problem, of which are 99% fake and are scams. But I forsee these scam ESA's will indeed end up making it tough for all the legit service animals, which is too bad.
..everything works out in the end.
 
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Tugger
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Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:59 pm

Is there a study anywhere as to how many ESA's, properly determined, medically/mentally necessary, are actually out there? And then a review of how many are issues while traveling?

I know I enjoy trashing the stupidity I hear regarding ESA's as much as anyone but I do get that for very specific instances some are needed. However having known someone with an issue who had an ESA, I know they also learned alternate methods and modes to use when they could not have their animal with them (the majority of places do not allow or are not suitable for an ESA, work, movie theaters, restaurants, public parks and spaces where their animal can get loose or scared etc). Usually it is fine and for short duration not an issue. A good percent of people who do depend on an ESA do not go out much, do nto go outside their known comfort zone, nor do they want the stress of dealing with an unwelcoming public. So they stick to what they know, stay home or fairly local.

The key difference of course is that sometimes you are required to go out and long distance travel that requires air travel is not always avoidable. You can't hide in your familiar space, go to your familiar shops or businesses etc. You must go out and away, and often for an extended period of time. Most will drive or by ground somehow so as not to have to deal with any problems.

Tugg
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beechnut
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Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:15 pm

I long for simpler times when an support animal was a guide dog for someone with a real physical handicap... and commercial aircraft had either 4 screaming turbojets, whining Rolls-Royce Dart turboprops, or 112 pounding pistons. :D

Beech
 
JAAlbert
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Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:38 am

Aside from the absurdity of bringing a large bird (with an even larger tail) on board a commercial aircraft, I have to wonder how stressful this must be for these untrained animals. The airport and flying are stressful enough for people, let alone animals, especially animals who are not social. When my little pug is put into a new and very different surrounding, he starts shaking he gets so scared, the poor guy. A peacock must find the airport bewildering and frightening I'd think.

Our society has become all about the individual -- if it is important to that person he/she must have it. It's kinda crazy.
 
ILS28ORD
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Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:18 am

I LOL'ed at the thread title
 
ltbewr
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Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:32 am

ESA's and exemptions to them are not only as to aircraft. My building doesn't allow dogs for liability reasons but that lease cannot prevent an ESA. My next door apartment neighbor, the husband/father has serious and chronic medical problems and a doctor gave him a letter that would allow him to have a ESA dog and the landlord had to accept that. it is a small mixed breed dog, it rarely barks and the wife and one son living there take it out for walks and collect the poop so it is a good example of a ESA exemption.
It may be necessary for the ADA and FAA/NTSB laws to be revised to reduce the ESA exemptions as well as abuses.
 
MatthewDB
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Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:55 am

As an avowed United hater, let me say this will be the rare time where I say right on United!

jnev3289 wrote:
Hey, he did buy an extra seat for the Peacock! So cool, who doesn't love Peacocks?


Anyone who says that hasn't spent much time around them. They sound like a woman screaming when they call. They also poop like any other fowl ALL OVER THE PLACE.
 
SmithAir747
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Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:10 am

MatthewDB wrote:
As an avowed United hater, let me say this will be the rare time where I say right on United!

jnev3289 wrote:
Hey, he did buy an extra seat for the Peacock! So cool, who doesn't love Peacocks?


Anyone who says that hasn't spent much time around them. They sound like a woman screaming when they call. They also poop like any other fowl ALL OVER THE PLACE.


The first thing I hear whenever I visit the Fort Wayne Children's Zoo (Fort Wayne, IN) is the howl of the peacocks, before I even get from the car park to the entrance. There are a lot of them roaming around freely in the zoo.

SmithAir747
I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made... (Psalm 139:14)
 
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jetpixx
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Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:50 am

On a positive note, UA didn't beat the hell out of the peacock and drag it off the plane, so there's that...
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mikelive
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Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:55 am

jnev3289 wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
Given the problems this program causes airlines, why not scrap it and let them travel by road and rail? Or does it make money?

Starts with "M" and ends with "oney". It was $250 for me to take my Pomeranian with me to California for Christmas under the seat in front of me. Not all pet owners are scam artists


If you would've flown on WN, it would've only been $190. :bouncy:
 
Chelsearose
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Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:35 am

...but what about countries with strict quarantine rules though? (e.g. Australia). There are countries out there that require animals to be isolated for as much as six months as part of a quarantine process. If an ESAN can be isolated for longer than a week.. does the passenger really need it onboard as an ESAN considering that most travel - no matter where a person is going to - is completed in less than 24 hours? Also, if we scrutinise situations deeper, what is it that really makes an animal a valid Emotional Support Animal?
 
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jnev3289
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Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:19 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
jnev3289 wrote:
Well this might come as a shock to you, but evidently not everyone is as mentally strong as you. I guess you believe they should be barred from flying then, a sort of 2nd class human with different sets of rights? It must be nice to be the arbiter of what is allowed to help emotionally distressed people feel safe and comforted.

I suffer from claustrophobia and travel sickness. The usual remedy is to travel with the window wide open.
I realise this is impossible in a modern airliner at altitude, so perhaps in order that I'm not relegated to being a second-class human, you could re-schedule any flight that I am on, re-routing it at low level and slower speeds, in order to allow the open-window policy I need. Just make sure I get a nice seat next to an emergency exit, with empty seats on either side of me, and the emergency exit left open for the duration of the flight.

Or would that be expecting too much?
Please don't claim I'm being ridiculous because that would make you "the arbiter of what is allowed.....".

Where would you draw the line in terms of inconveniencing 180 other passengers in order that this one passenger is treated "fairly"?

In all seriousness, that is what it comes down to.

The actual arbiters are the arbiters of what is allowed, hence why this is allowed and forcing an airplane to fly at a low level and at slower speeds is not...
 
evank516
Posts: 2153
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Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:56 pm

I'm totally bringing my emotional support cobra with me to MSP in 2 weeks. They have to let me board with it, right?
 
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JannEejit
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Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:04 pm

Making international news now, apparently it's owner is an NY based artist who likes to blog about the peacocks adventures... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42880690
 
Aptivaboy
Posts: 933
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Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:54 pm

I was considering bringing my emotional support yeti onboard, but then I saw this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pStn5Zwxz7E
 
aerogt3
Posts: 54
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Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:00 pm

Lilienthal wrote:
I'd love to see you saying that straight to the face of a PTSD-stricken veteran.


I think veterans with legitimate cases probably:

1.) aren't traveling with a disruptive animal like a peacock
2.) have proper documentation and training for the animal they wish to bring along

jnev3289 wrote:
Well this might come as a shock to you, but evidently not everyone is as mentally strong as you. I guess you believe they should be barred from flying then, a sort of 2nd class human with different sets of rights? It must be nice to be the arbiter of what is allowed to help emotionally distressed people feel safe and comforted.


Are you suggesting there's really a mental health case where someone needs an untrained, undocumented peacock and ONLY said peacock in order to fly?
 
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SheikhDjibouti
Posts: 2284
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:59 pm

Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:32 pm

jnev3289 wrote:
The actual arbiters are the arbiters of what is allowed, hence why this is allowed and forcing an airplane to fly at a low level and at slower speeds is not...

What?
Do you actually listen to yourself?
Are these things "that are allowed" handed down on tablets of stone from God? Or are these "arbiters who are arbiters", actually real human beings?

If so, then perhaps they made an arbitrary decision that forcing an aircraft to fly with a lower level of fare-paying passengers, and boarding at slower speeds was ok.
But forcing an airplane to fly at a low level and at slower speeds is somehow not acceptable.

Perhaps you can explain why not?
Both impinge on the efficient operation of the airline. Both subject the other passengers to a degree of inconvenience.

In response to criticism that allowing an infinite range of ESAs onto aircraft is ridiculous, you sarcastically respond with "It must be nice to be the arbiter of what is allowed". And yet you fail to recognise that in supporting this policy, you yourself are playing the role of "arbiter of what is allowed". Shrugging your shoulders and repeating that "those are the rules, hard luck" is not a coherent argument any more than the NRA clinging on to the second amendment.

Society survives by introducing new laws to govern new situations (e.g. gay marriage), and by changing or eliminating old laws that are no longer "fit-for-purpose".
The second amendment is one example.
The right to carry ESAs without question is another.
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
alfa164
Posts: 3668
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:55 am

AirbusMDCFAN wrote:
Link/Source: http://liveandletsfly.boardingarea.com/ ... s-peacock/
Some of these "doctors" who write these phony letters and prescriptions need to have heads examined. .


Sorry; I must disagree. The "doctors" who take $20.00 over the internet and provide emotional support animal documentation - without ever examining or even meeting their "patient" - should be prosecuted, charged under State and Federal laws, and their licenses should be taken.

Medical malpractice, fraud, and deceptive trade practice charges would be appropriate. That should put a quick end to this sham.

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
There are many cases where this is necessary. The vast majority of support animals are legit. Mostly people who are mentally challenged or veterans with PTSD. I find it sad a bunch of people who were not brave enough to be in the military mocking a federally guaranteed right. I agree people twist it a very small amount of times but to make this a joke is sad and wrong. Shame on you.


Most veterans with serious conditions are accompanied by a Service Animal, trained to recognize signs of distress. So-called "Emotional Support Animals" are, in most cases pets whose owners don't have enough sense to understand are uncomfortable and often scared in the confines of an aircraft. And, just a minor correction to what is a popular assumption: it is not the ADA that regulates disability issues for the airlines; it is the Air Carrier Access Act. Interestingly, that act doesn't provide for any private lawsuit against an airline, although it does allow for administrative action.

jnev3289 wrote:
I'm sorry, but I don't think Delta is really doing anything because there's really nothing they can do. If I buy the note of a legitimate doctor off eBay for $20 that says I need an emotional support dog by my side, providing that 24 hours before departure is really no issue at all. I don't know how many people are just walking up and claiming their pet is "Emotional Support" and expecting to have Fido get on for free... I think the real issue is the doctor's selling their signature for a ham sandwich, and Delta has zero control over that.


I have no idea what documentation and verification Delta will be requiring, but at least they are trying to add some semblance of sanity to the issue. I hope they will examine those ESA "prescriptions" carefully, and - if dozens or even hundreds start appearing from one "doctor", with flyers from all corners of the country claiming to be his/her "patients" - they pursue legal actions against that prescriber.
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
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Schweigend
Posts: 532
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:47 am

Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:11 am

JannEejit wrote:
Making international news now, apparently it's owner is an NY based artist who likes to blog about the peacocks adventures... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42880690


This "artist" person just wants to get Primetime exposure from the incident, in order to advance her career.
 
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Schweigend
Posts: 532
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:47 am

Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:34 am

alfa164 wrote:
Sorry; I must disagree. The "doctors" who take $20.00 over the internet and provide emotional support animal documentation - without ever examining or even meeting their "patient" - should be prosecuted, charged under State and Federal laws, and their licenses should be taken.

Medical malpractice, fraud, and deceptive trade practice charges would be appropriate. That should put a quick end to this sham.


Alfa, I very much agree with you, having seen numerous "pencil-whipped" dodgy Health Certificates and/or "Support Animal" paperwork.

Legitimate support animals should remain valid for flight, but many, many jerks are gaming the system.
 
SurlyBonds
Posts: 398
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:24 am

Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:50 am

JannEejit wrote:
So why doesn't the 2/3 of the rest of the world feel the need to bring little Tiddles on board for comfort ? I agree flying can be frightening and stressful for lots of people but other emotional support avenues are out there and explorable. I used to get really stressed before flying, eventually having done enough of it, the feeling left me, and long before I was checking for available wildlife to accompany me. How stressful is an airliner cabin experience for an animal anyway ?


For the same reason that 2/3 of the rest of the world doesn't get things like ramps in addition to stairways, accessible toilets, and so on. Developed countries with the rule of law tend to introduce them first. Back in the day you could have asked why "2/3 of the rest of the world is perfectly OK with smoking on aircraft."

I think it is reasonable to put some constraints on what animals qualify as "emotional support animals," but that doesn't mean you throw the baby out with the bathwater. Emotional support dogs have been very effective when provided a public service in settings like hospitals and even airport terminals. Yes, they are helpful to veterans, and you "little Tiddles" comment is offensive to people in that community. Damn offensive, frankly.
 
SurlyBonds
Posts: 398
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:24 am

Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:53 am

alfa164 wrote:

Medical malpractice, fraud, and deceptive trade practice charges would be appropriate. That should put a quick end to this sham.



Medical malpractice is, of course, a private right of action, and it also requires an injury for which a plaintiff can seek damages. Who's being injured here?

As to "unfair trade practices," care to state the statute they're violating?

I suppose if someone's ESA bit a fellow passenger, that passenger might be able to sue the doctor who provided the certificate.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 5038
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: United denies boarding to an Emotional Support Peacock

Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:36 am

This emotional support animal stuff is getting ridiculous pretty quick? somebody is going to want to bring a donkey or a Camel,aboard.. maybe they should have to buy the Row..

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