Airliners.net

- Air Canada today announced that its current seasonal non-stop Vancouver-Delhi flights will become year-round starting June 8, 2018 on the 787 Dreamliner.

- "Customer response to our nonstop Vancouver-Delhi seasonal flights initially launched in 2016 has been extremely positive, and we are very pleased to extend the only flights between Western Canada and India to year-round beginning in June"


https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/a ... 74054.html

The loads certainly have been very heavy, I assume money is being made. I also noted that a reference was made to a new Pacific destination to be announced during the 2018 Olympic games. Any ideas?

I don't see any reference to a new Pacific destination???

Agreed, everything I have heard (from an AC F/A I know) is that these YVR-DEL flights are extremely full. I don't think adding this will take away much India traffic from any Star Alliance partners.

HJM wrote:

The loads certainly have been very heavy, I assume money is being made. I also noted that a reference was made to a new Pacific destination to be announced during the 2018 Olympic games. Any ideas?

Are you referring to Hainan's YVR-TSN-SZX route announced last week or is this another new add?

I noticed the flight times have changed to a very early morning arrival and departure. Would they be trying to take advantage of lower temperatures at that time of the morning for a departure as I imagine it gets very hot during the day and that may cause weight restrictions?

9252fly wrote:

I noticed the flight times have changed to a very early morning arrival and departure. Would they be trying to take advantage of lower temperatures at that time of the morning for a departure as I imagine it gets very hot during the day and that may cause weight restrictions?

What were the previous schedules? I too noticed that especially the DEL departure was very early, although not abnormal.

berari wrote:

9252fly wrote:

I noticed the flight times have changed to a very early morning arrival and departure. Would they be trying to take advantage of lower temperatures at that time of the morning for a departure as I imagine it gets very hot during the day and that may cause weight restrictions?

What were the previous schedules? I too noticed that especially the DEL departure was very early, although not abnormal.

The current seasonal service:

YVR 1130 DEL 1510

DEL 1720 YVR 1815

YVR-MEL will also be flown year round soon, as well.

AC has been doing well with YVR expansion. FRA, CDG, ZRH, BNE, MEL, and DEL just to name a few.

9252fly wrote:

berari wrote:

9252fly wrote:

I noticed the flight times have changed to a very early morning arrival and departure. Would they be trying to take advantage of lower temperatures at that time of the morning for a departure as I imagine it gets very hot during the day and that may cause weight restrictions?

What were the previous schedules? I too noticed that especially the DEL departure was very early, although not abnormal.

The current seasonal service:

YVR 1130 DEL 1510

DEL 1720 YVR 1815

Pleasant arrival and departure times from Delhi. 1am departures are miserable. The downside is that a 615pm arrival misses many connections in YVR. I would think a connection to LAX would help loads, but apparently they don’t need it. Connections to SEA/SFO would likely be lower yielding than Canada originating traffic due to competition from EK, BA, LH, etc

NichCage wrote:

YVR-MEL will also be flown year round soon, as well.

AC has been doing well with YVR expansion. FRA, CDG, ZRH, BNE, MEL, and DEL just to name a few.

This B788 has been a big game changer for many airlines. These, especially the India routes, are all routes that AC couldn't make beforehand. UA has had great success with this aircraft also.

Wow I guess YVR, Canada West Coast connections plus SFO traffic can make this flight. Good for them. I think the US and Canada India nonstops have show the the VFR crowd has matured in each country and there is enough business demand to support. YVR on the surface seems like a tough place with both Far Eastern and EU airlines in the mix plus UA. My guess is the ME3 won’t get more flights anytime soon. I wonder if AI will restart a nonstop? I think 9W will keep their YYZ-AMS flight.

9252fly wrote:

I noticed the flight times have changed to a very early morning arrival and departure. Would they be trying to take advantage of lower temperatures at that time of the morning for a departure as I imagine it gets very hot during the day and that may cause weight restrictions?

I think you're right about that. It makes sense for them to have the aircraft turn in the early morning rather then during the day when the tempeture outside reaches a high of 35-45 degrees celsius causing the possibilities of a weight restrictions out of DEL.

CaliguyNYC wrote:

Wow I guess YVR, Canada West Coast connections plus SFO traffic can make this flight. Good for them. I think the US and Canada India nonstops have show the the VFR crowd has matured in each country and there is enough business demand to support. YVR on the surface seems like a tough place with both Far Eastern and EU airlines in the mix plus UA. My guess is the ME3 won’t get more flights anytime soon. I wonder if AI will restart a nonstop? I think 9W will keep their YYZ-AMS flight.

I don't know how many people are connecting from SFO through YVR, considering we have our own non-stop on AI plus plenty of other options. I'm sure there may be a few pax? but I'm guessing fare wise there may be better deals to had elsewhere.

YVRda wrote:

9252fly wrote:

I noticed the flight times have changed to a very early morning arrival and departure. Would they be trying to take advantage of lower temperatures at that time of the morning for a departure as I imagine it gets very hot during the day and that may cause weight restrictions?

I think you're right about that. It makes sense for them to have the aircraft turn in the early morning rather then during the day when the tempeture outside reaches a high of 35-45 degrees celsius causing the possibilities of a weight restrictions out of DEL.

Another is aircraft utilization. I had a look at the YVR - MEL flight that also was launched as a seasonal flight, then shortly after went year-round. MEL operates and arrives into YVR at about the same time on days that DEL does not operate.

Does this route fly westbound over Europe or Eastbound over Asia? And why?

As more 789's arrive, I think a lot of routes will go year round. YVR-FRA seems a shoe in to me, given AC's relationship with LH, and the fact that it's a huge market from Canada, YYZ has 3x daily flights on AC/LH and YYCYUL have a daily AC flight, it's about time YVR joined the fray. There will likely be frequency increases to certain routes as more planes arrive, I expect YYZ-BOM to go daily as soon as possible, AC doesn't fly all too many routes less then daily, frequency is critical to their 6th freedom traffic from our southern friends.

Pretty awesome. It is incredible how 10 years ago, AC could not even make a YYZ-DEL service work, and now they have year-round YYZ-DEL/BOM and YVR-DEL. The

Newbiepilot wrote:

9252fly wrote:

berari wrote:

What were the previous schedules? I too noticed that especially the DEL departure was very early, although not abnormal.

The current seasonal service:

YVR 1130 DEL 1510

DEL 1720 YVR 1815

Pleasant arrival and departure times from Delhi. 1am departures are miserable. The downside is that a 615pm arrival misses many connections in YVR. I would think a connection to LAX would help loads, but apparently they don’t need it. Connections to SEA/SFO would likely be lower yielding than Canada originating traffic due to competition from EK, BA, LH, etc

Not quite, the minimum connection time in YVR for INTL to INTL is 60 mins, INTL to US is 1h 10 min, and 1h 20 min for INTL to CAN. Within that window, there are plenty of connections that are supported.

Prince George, Victoria, Portland, San Francisco, Los Angeles, San Jose, Saskatoon, Calgary, Regina, Comox, Whitehorse, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Nanaimo, Kelowna, Terrace, Toronto, Ft. Saint John, and Kamloops.

Is the B789 restricted on the route though? The GC distance is not that long but this route has to bypass the Himalayas.

Newbiepilot wrote:

9252fly wrote:

berari wrote:

What were the previous schedules? I too noticed that especially the DEL departure was very early, although not abnormal.

The current seasonal service:

YVR 1130 DEL 1510

DEL 1720 YVR 1815

Pleasant arrival and departure times from Delhi. 1am departures are miserable. The downside is that a 615pm arrival misses many connections in YVR. I would think a connection to LAX would help loads, but apparently they don’t need it. Connections to SEA/SFO would likely be lower yielding than Canada originating traffic due to competition from EK, BA, LH, etc

LAX pax can connect via YYZ if flying AC, but it's not like there aren't a million options at LAX anyway.

alan3 wrote:

Does this route fly westbound over Europe or Eastbound over Asia? And why?

This route usually flies straight north. Most days flying right over the North Pole, Russia, Kazakhstan then straight south into India. Check out today's flight: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ACA ... /CYVR/VIDP

IrishAyes wrote:

Pretty awesome. It is incredible how 10 years ago, AC could not even make a YYZ-DEL service work, and now they have year-round YYZ-DEL/BOM and YVR-DEL.

= AC was a basket case of an airline 10 years ago.

Saludos,
Alex

Slightly off-topic. But has there been any word on whether AC will exercise those 787 options and purchase rights? When do they expire?

Also, I've always wondered why AC never flipped some of their orders to 787-10. Seems perfect for some of their routes. The 788 seems out of place. Unless they eventually rougify them and get them to ~290 seats.

ytz wrote:

Slightly off-topic. But has there been any word on whether AC will exercise those 787 options and purchase rights? When do they expire?

Also, I've always wondered why AC never flipped some of their orders to 787-10. Seems perfect for some of their routes. The 788 seems out of place. Unless they eventually rougify them and get them to ~290 seats.

So I have been told by multiple people, they are purchasing ~7 or so used A330's to supplement their fleet, which should arrive soon. I have no confirmation other than reliable word of mouth, but we have to take that for what it is.

AC has come out and said they wanted to cut down their spending a bit, they have been taking new deliveries at a constantly high rate for a good few years now, and paying all of them off is quite costly. I wouldn't be surprised if they do eventually use the options for 787-10s, but I personally wouldn't anticipate any deliveries before ~2020 at the very earliest.

NichCage wrote:

YVR-MEL will also be flown year round soon, as well.

AC has been doing well with YVR expansion. FRA, CDG, ZRH, BNE, MEL, and DEL just to name a few.

The growth out of YVR over the last few years for AC has been incredible and it's all thanks to the 787. This aircraft has been a perfect fit for AC as they utilize the aircraft on all sectors.. domestic, transboarder and overseas.

What routes does everyone think is next for AC out of YVR? Maybe Singapore? Bangkok? Tel Aviv? or more routes to China such as Chengdu?

alan3 wrote:

Does this route fly westbound over Europe or Eastbound over Asia? And why?

Neither really. Out of DEL, you have no choice but to go north-west bound a bit, due to the Himalayas, but after that, it's a straight shot northbound, splitting Russia in two, and down the other side.

Choose a past flight from the following page and click "play".

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ac45

voxkel wrote:

Is the B789 restricted on the route though? The GC distance is not that long but this route has to bypass the Himalayas.

Even with the detour around the himalayas, it's doable with little to no restriction on the B789.

DEL-YVR is 6,026 nm, add another 200 nm for the detour, add another 500 nm for headwinds, and that is still well below the published range of the B789 (7,635nm).

whywhyzee wrote:

So I have been told by multiple people, they are purchasing ~7 or so used A330's to supplement their fleet, which should arrive soon.

Will be interesting to see what they do with these birds. YUL is the only A333 base at the moment. Will be interesting to see if they re-open the A333 base at YYZ.

IrishAyes wrote:

Pretty awesome. It is incredible how 10 years ago, AC could not even make a YYZ-DEL service work, and now they have year-round YYZ-DEL/BOM and YVR-DEL. The

Newbiepilot wrote:

9252fly wrote:

The current seasonal service:

YVR 1130 DEL 1510

DEL 1720 YVR 1815

Pleasant arrival and departure times from Delhi. 1am departures are miserable. The downside is that a 615pm arrival misses many connections in YVR. I would think a connection to LAX would help loads, but apparently they don’t need it. Connections to SEA/SFO would likely be lower yielding than Canada originating traffic due to competition from EK, BA, LH, etc

Not quite, the minimum connection time in YVR for INTL to INTL is 60 mins, INTL to US is 1h 10 min, and 1h 20 min for INTL to CAN. Within that window, there are plenty of connections that are supported.

Prince George, Victoria, Portland, San Francisco, Los Angeles, San Jose, Saskatoon, Calgary, Regina, Comox, Whitehorse, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Nanaimo, Kelowna, Terrace, Toronto, Ft. Saint John, and Kamloops.

Nothing incredible about it. If you look at Statistics Canada Immigration reports, you will see that the top immigrant source countries for the last 10 years have been Philippines, India and China. This is why you have all these flights popping up. By looking at those reports it's very easy to predict future services.

[quote="kevin”]
Nothing incredible about it. If you look at Statistics Canada Immigration reports, you will see that the top immigrant source countries for the last 10 years have been Philippines, India and China. This is why you have all these flights popping up. By looking at those reports it's very easy to predict future services.[/quote]

That and Canada has effectively blocked Emirates, Qatar and Etihad from Vancouver.

whywhyzee wrote:

ytz wrote:

Slightly off-topic. But has there been any word on whether AC will exercise those 787 options and purchase rights? When do they expire?

Also, I've always wondered why AC never flipped some of their orders to 787-10. Seems perfect for some of their routes. The 788 seems out of place. Unless they eventually rougify them and get them to ~290 seats.

So I have been told by multiple people, they are purchasing ~7 or so used A330's to supplement their fleet, which should arrive soon. I have no confirmation other than reliable word of mouth, but we have to take that for what it is.

AC has come out and said they wanted to cut down their spending a bit, they have been taking new deliveries at a constantly high rate for a good few years now, and paying all of them off is quite costly. I wouldn't be surprised if they do eventually use the options for 787-10s, but I personally wouldn't anticipate any deliveries before ~2020 at the very earliest.

I imagine those ~7 A330's will replace the last remaining B763's in the mainline fleet on a one-for-one basis.

alan3 wrote:

Does this route fly westbound over Europe or Eastbound over Asia? And why?

They can't fly immediately to the north-east of Delhi due to restrictions flying over the highest parts of the Himalayas.

kevin wrote:

IrishAyes wrote:

Pretty awesome. It is incredible how 10 years ago, AC could not even make a YYZ-DEL service work, and now they have year-round YYZ-DEL/BOM and YVR-DEL. The

Newbiepilot wrote:

Pleasant arrival and departure times from Delhi. 1am departures are miserable. The downside is that a 615pm arrival misses many connections in YVR. I would think a connection to LAX would help loads, but apparently they don’t need it. Connections to SEA/SFO would likely be lower yielding than Canada originating traffic due to competition from EK, BA, LH, etc

Not quite, the minimum connection time in YVR for INTL to INTL is 60 mins, INTL to US is 1h 10 min, and 1h 20 min for INTL to CAN. Within that window, there are plenty of connections that are supported.

Prince George, Victoria, Portland, San Francisco, Los Angeles, San Jose, Saskatoon, Calgary, Regina, Comox, Whitehorse, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Nanaimo, Kelowna, Terrace, Toronto, Ft. Saint John, and Kamloops.

Nothing incredible about it. If you look at Statistics Canada Immigration reports, you will see that the top immigrant source countries for the last 10 years have been Philippines, India and China. This is why you have all these flights popping up. By looking at those reports it's very easy to predict future services.

Wasn't referring to predicting new routes from Canada; rather, was listing out the connections available at YVR to feed the DEL flight with an 1815 arrival.

I perceive that the B787-10 is a distant consideration but that more A333 would be an immediate welcome addition.

I guess the next YVR possibilities might be more transborder flights to feed these long-hauls. It's tricky since the O&D would be pretty modest on most of them, but with enough overseas routes, it might work. Maybe places like SLC, AUS.

As for China, AC has made clear that they want to add flights but have had trouble getting slots.

9252fly wrote:

whywhyzee wrote:

ytz wrote:

Slightly off-topic. But has there been any word on whether AC will exercise those 787 options and purchase rights? When do they expire?

Also, I've always wondered why AC never flipped some of their orders to 787-10. Seems perfect for some of their routes. The 788 seems out of place. Unless they eventually rougify them and get them to ~290 seats.

So I have been told by multiple people, they are purchasing ~7 or so used A330's to supplement their fleet, which should arrive soon. I have no confirmation other than reliable word of mouth, but we have to take that for what it is.

AC has come out and said they wanted to cut down their spending a bit, they have been taking new deliveries at a constantly high rate for a good few years now, and paying all of them off is quite costly. I wouldn't be surprised if they do eventually use the options for 787-10s, but I personally wouldn't anticipate any deliveries before ~2020 at the very earliest.

I imagine those ~7 A330's will replace the last remaining B763's in the mainline fleet on a one-for-one basis.

I'd be surprised if the remaining mainline 763s are going anywhere anytime soon, even if more 333s come online...which have been rumoured for the last 3-4 years but nothing concrete thus far in that regard.

whywhyzee wrote:

As more 789's arrive, I think a lot of routes will go year round. YVR-FRA seems a shoe in to me, given AC's relationship with LH, and the fact that it's a huge market from Canada, YYZ has 3x daily flights on AC/LH and YYCYUL have a daily AC flight, it's about time YVR joined the fray. There will likely be frequency increases to certain routes as more planes arrive, I expect YYZ-BOM to go daily as soon as possible, AC doesn't fly all too many routes less then daily, frequency is critical to their 6th freedom traffic from our southern friends.

YVR-FRA on AC metal was launched last summer. It flies seasonally-only, like YOW-FRA.

Do any international airlines fly into Amritsar India?
Most Indians living in Canada are from the Punjab area.. I wonder if AC has ever considered flights to Amritsar.

abrelosojos wrote:

IrishAyes wrote:

Pretty awesome. It is incredible how 10 years ago, AC could not even make a YYZ-DEL service work, and now they have year-round YYZ-DEL/BOM and YVR-DEL.

= AC was a basket case of an airline 10 years ago.

Saludos,
Alex

There is a sort of warped reality that lives on this website. It’s that routes, should all work, all the time. Maybe in a vacuum. AC has tried and tried to make DEL work over decades. It’s a long, thin route. There was practically one reason this route couldn’t work and when it was reintroduced everyone on here was bashing saying it couldn’t be done. Yet it can. With the right tool.

The A340 couldn’t do it. The 767 via ZRH couldn’t do it. The 787 can. Period. Dot.

The route is doing amazing, there was no doubt it would. It has the legs, lift, economics. Nothing previous did. It’s the right tool for the job and it is doing it in spades. Everything was there waiting for success but they never had the right tool to do it.

I think it was Ben Smith who said and I paraphrase, ‘if Air Canada was asked to design a plane to perfectly suit their needs, it was the 789.’ It was like it was custom built.

For sure Air Canada has made leaps in the past decade but basket case may be a bit of a stretch. If you’re trying to win a formula one race with a go-cart, no matter what you’re doing, or how hard you’re trying it’s probbaly not going to work out and at some point you have to pull the plug.

"It’s a long, thin route."

It's long, but it's definitely not thin. Canada-India is high volume, but low margin. The 787 is the first aircraft that makes India viable for AC.

Dominion301 wrote:

"It’s a long, thin route."

It's long, but it's definitely not thin. Canada-India is high volume, but low margin. The 787 is the first aircraft that makes India viable for AC.

I thought thin meant low yield/margin no? That was my intention. The route was exceptionally so when they didn’t have the aircraft with the right capabilities.

It does now.

sixtyseven wrote:

Dominion301 wrote:

"It’s a long, thin route."

It's long, but it's definitely not thin. Canada-India is high volume, but low margin. The 787 is the first aircraft that makes India viable for AC.

I thought thin meant low yield/margin no? That was my intention. The route was exceptionally so when they didn’t have the aircraft with the right capabilities.

It does now.

I think that "thin" implies that there is significant volume/demand for the route, but whether the level of demand is premium enough for such a route to generate higher average fares, in both cabins, over 1-stop, cheaper alternatives to cover the costs of operating the flight, is where the concept of, "thin" comes into the question. DEN-NRT is a perfect example.

YVRda wrote:

Do any international airlines fly into Amritsar India?
Most Indians living in Canada are from the Punjab area.. I wonder if AC has ever considered flights to Amritsar.

AI used to do direct Toronto-Amritsar flights. Not sure about YVR. It's certainly not out of the question for AC as there's plenty of demand from both YYZ and YVR to Amritsar, but obviously it's 99% VFR traffic with all that entails on such a long route. Surprisingly the connections in DEL to Amritsar with AI aren't great.

YYZLGA wrote:

YVRda wrote:

Do any international airlines fly into Amritsar India?
Most Indians living in Canada are from the Punjab area.. I wonder if AC has ever considered flights to Amritsar.

AI used to do direct Toronto-Amritsar flights. Not sure about YVR. It's certainly not out of the question for AC as there's plenty of demand from both YYZ and YVR to Amritsar, but obviously it's 99% VFR traffic with all that entails on such a long route. Surprisingly the connections in DEL to Amritsar with AI aren't great.

While there are many Punjabis in Canada (and maybe the largest Indian ethnic group), they are not in the majority in Canada (although perhaps in Vancouver they are). Also all Punjabis do not go “home” to the Punjab. They could be from DEL, BOM or wherever in India. There are a lot of Anet stereotypes that don’t have any basis in reality. See the success of YYZ-BOM.

What are the business load on this flight? Does AI have any good cooperation with AC, to connect onwards to ATQ, BOM, BLR, MAA, HYD and etc?

YVRda wrote:

Do any international airlines fly into Amritsar India?
Most Indians living in Canada are from the Punjab area.. I wonder if AC has ever considered flights to Amritsar.

I have had two friends of Punjabi background take the Delhi flight and then head 5 to 6 hours deeper into their rural lands (family owned). When AC recently cancelled a DEL to YYZ flight they were accommodated in a local hotel and had a full day in Delhi to explore. The cancelled flight came as a blessing.

CaliguyNYC wrote:

YYZLGA wrote:

YVRda wrote:

Do any international airlines fly into Amritsar India?
Most Indians living in Canada are from the Punjab area.. I wonder if AC has ever considered flights to Amritsar.

AI used to do direct Toronto-Amritsar flights. Not sure about YVR. It's certainly not out of the question for AC as there's plenty of demand from both YYZ and YVR to Amritsar, but obviously it's 99% VFR traffic with all that entails on such a long route. Surprisingly the connections in DEL to Amritsar with AI aren't great.

While there are many Punjabis in Canada (and maybe the largest Indian ethnic group), they are not in the majority in Canada (although perhaps in Vancouver they are). Also all Punjabis do not go “home” to the Punjab. They could be from DEL, BOM or wherever in India. There are a lot of Anet stereotypes that don’t have any basis in reality. See the success of YYZ-BOM.

Actually Sikhs are the largest community of Indians in Canada. Overall, about 1 in 3 (34%) of Indo-Canadians are Sikh (http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/89-621-x/8 ... 04-eng.htm). In British Columbia, they are by far the largest majority. Therefore, the demand for travel to India from Canada will be heavily directed towards Delhi and the north-west. Yes, the metro Toronto area has a lot of Tamils and other populations who will seek to connect to the south but to suggest that there is "no basis in reality" is absurd.

His question about the potential demand for service to Amritsar is perfectly legimitate.

alan3 wrote:

His question about the potential demand for service to Amritsar is perfectly legimitate.

The question is legitimate but a LOT has changed since 2001. I’m 99.99% sure that sikhs/punjabis are no longer the biggest group among indo-canucks.

YOWza

Is AC still looking at serving Dhaka, Bangladesh? I heard it was being contemplated a while back.

chrisp390 wrote:

Is AC still looking at serving Dhaka, Bangladesh? I heard it was being contemplated a while back.

What business could there possibly be? And that would be one insane ULH!

Far better to feed AI at DEL and let them connect to Dhaka, Colombo, Bangalore, etc.

I don't think AI flew YYZ-ATQ nonstop. I believe it was via Birmingham. This was the "Punjabi Shuttle."

And half of my family lives in Canada. They are all Punjabi

It looks like AC is preparing for liberalisation of the Canada-UAE BASA.

upwardfacing wrote:

It looks like AC is preparing for liberalisation of the Canada-UAE BASA.

Any source on that? What do you mean by libéralisation? It will definately not go full open skies, that's for sure. It could simply be some additional frequencies ( 2 or 3x more weekly flights/country), or more codeshare access.