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zeke
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Re: Hawaiian CEO on A321neo In-Service Economics

Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:18 pm

Newbiepilot wrote:
It is how I interpret these comments

Mark said the A321neos have better trip and seat mile costs. I think it is logical to conclude from that statement that they appear to be preferring A321neos to the A330 fleet between Hawaii and the West Coast. Obviously they need the A330s for their longer flights, but they have 24 in the fleet already


Take an hour to listen to what they all said before making stuff up, that was part of an answer asked by an analyst regarding how the A321neo compares to the 767. They said the A321neo has the best economics for these routes, better than anything the competitors have.

The A330 is going nowhere, they are getting more. The 717 is going nowhere.

What is going, and will be gone this year is the 767, the remaining 7 will be gone by year end with a fleet of 9 A321neo by year end. The A321neo will be on new routes (many of which have not been announced) where they will generate superior RASM.

They didn’t talk at all about the A321neo replacing the A330.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
NZ321
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Re: Hawaiian CEO on A321neo In-Service Economics

Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:19 pm

I don't agree with above comments that HA doesn't have to worry about slots. What about at mainland points that are slot congested such as LAX, SFO, SEA? Take the A332 out of the picture and replace it with 3 A321 for each A332 and HA will have slot issues. A332 is going nowhere IMHO. Such a move also undermines their international expansion strategy. I read this as HA will target new markets within the continental US and Canada - and maybe also in the Asia Pacific region because it can now efficiently serve these points in a way that it previously couldn't. That includes supplementary markets on the west coast as well as those further afield.
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EPA001
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Re: Hawaiian CEO on A321neo In-Service Economics

Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:22 pm

zeke wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
keesje wrote:
I think Hawai's A330NEO's on order will become -900's.
]


From the CEO comments, Hawaiian appears to be preferring A321s to A330s. I think there is an equal change the A330neos become A321s.


Not sure where you got that from, as the CEO didn’t say it. He said the A321neo is the right aircraft for the right routes, and some of those new routes will be announced in May. They are for different roles.


Yes, they are. They will make a fine addition to the fleet of Hawaiian Airlines. :)
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: Hawaiian CEO on A321neo In-Service Economics

Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:23 pm

zeke wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
It is how I interpret these comments

Mark said the A321neos have better trip and seat mile costs. I think it is logical to conclude from that statement that they appear to be preferring A321neos to the A330 fleet between Hawaii and the West Coast. Obviously they need the A330s for their longer flights, but they have 24 in the fleet already


Take an hour to listen to what they all said before making stuff up, that was part of an answer asked by an analyst regarding how the A321neo compares to the 767. They said the A321neo has the best economics for these routes, better than anything the competitors have.

The A330 is going nowhere, they are getting more. The 717 is going nowhere.

What is going, and will be gone this year is the 767, the remaining 7 will be gone by year end with a fleet of 9 A321neo by year end. The A321neo will be on new routes (many of which have not been announced) where they will generate superior RASM.

They didn’t talk at all about the A321neo replacing the A330.


Zeke, there is no need to be rude. I used the words wonder, if, interpret and appears for a reason. From these comments, I predict A321s will displace some A330s on West Coast routes due to lower costs. . Keesje was speculating about an A339 conversion, I was speculating about an A321 conversion, so why do you only rudely claim i am making stuff up.? We are allowed to speculate on this forum based on comments in the media.
Last edited by Newbiepilot on Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
tphuang
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Re: Hawaiian CEO on A321neo In-Service Economics

Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:27 pm

NZ321 wrote:
I don't agree with above comments that HA doesn't have to worry about slots. What about at mainland points that are slot congested such as LAX, SFO, SEA? Take the A332 out of the picture and replace it with 3 A321 for each A332 and HA will have slot issues. A332 is going nowhere IMHO. Such a move also undermines their international expansion strategy. I read this as HA will target new markets within the continental US and Canada - and maybe also in the Asia Pacific region because it can now efficiently serve these points in a way that it previously couldn't. That includes supplementary markets on the west coast as well as those further afield.

There are no slots in those airports. As for gate restrictions, there is plenty of slack at least at lax and sfo for several more flights a day. Whether they want to do that is a different story.
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Hawaiian CEO on A321neo In-Service Economics

Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:55 pm

Those 2 extra A321 will be held idle until WN announce its Hawaii Schedule is my prediction.

Flyguy
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zeke
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Re: Hawaiian CEO on A321neo In-Service Economics

Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:02 pm

Newbiepilot wrote:
Zeke, there is no need to be rude. I used the words interpret and appears for a reason. From these comments, I predict A321s will displace some A330s on West Coast routes due to lower costs.


I wasn’t being rude, being rude is not bothering to listen to the earnings call and make stuff up based on you interpretation of tea leaves. You then try and add credibility to what you made up by using the someone’s first name.

He actually said the A321neo is the potent competitor for the “slightly smaller routes”. He said the future of HA is Asia, and that is where the A330 features.

The question was what is the RASM/PASM spread of the A321neo vs the 767 to the west coast asked by by Hunter Keay at Wolfe Research. The question starts around 28:30 in the earnings call https://edge.media-server.com/m6/p/n5e99p67

What he said was
-The A321neo is more than efficent than our A330s over that sector length (not by much) and must better than competitors narrow bodies
- Same operating costs advantage of a wide body if not a little better over those mid size routes

On a unit revenue front on routes where the 767 will be replaced by the lower capacity A321neo they expect RASM to increase
The higher RASM routes they dont currently serve are the mid size routes from the west cost direct to the neighbor islands, they will be able to serve them non stop.

He was associating the A321neo with mid size routes to the west coast, not the A330 routes.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
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zeke
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Re: Hawaiian CEO on A321neo In-Service Economics

Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:24 pm

The CASM vs other narrow body and wide body aircraft can be seen on page 90 of this HA presentation

https://newsroom.hawaiianairlines.com/i ... Posted.pdf
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
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Polot
Posts: 11060
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Re: Hawaiian CEO on A321neo In-Service Economics

Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:37 pm

zeke wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
Zeke, there is no need to be rude. I used the words interpret and appears for a reason. From these comments, I predict A321s will displace some A330s on West Coast routes due to lower costs.


I wasn’t being rude, being rude is not bothering to listen to the earnings call and make stuff up based on you interpretation of tea leaves. You then try and add credibility to what you made up by using the someone’s first name.

He actually said the A321neo is the potent competitor for the “slightly smaller routes”. He said the future of HA is Asia, and that is where the A330 features.

The question was what is the RASM/PASM spread of the A321neo vs the 767 to the west coast asked by by Hunter Keay at Wolfe Research. The question starts around 28:30 in the earnings call https://edge.media-server.com/m6/p/n5e99p67

What he said was
-The A321neo is more than efficent than our A330s over that sector length (not by much) and must better than competitors narrow bodies
- Same operating costs advantage of a wide body if not a little better over those mid size routes

On a unit revenue front on routes where the 767 will be replaced by the lower capacity A321neo they expect RASM to increase
The higher RASM routes they dont currently serve are the mid size routes from the west cost direct to the neighbor islands, they will be able to serve them non stop.

He was associating the A321neo with mid size routes to the west coast, not the A330 routes.


The A321neo is obviously going to displace some A330s, even if not at first. You can see it on page 91 of the presentation you posted. A330s are currently ~50/50 long/medium haul, A321neo will allow them to go to ~60/40. HA currently only has the 6 A338s on order. They have taken delivery of all A332 orders.

HA only has a handful of 767 left. Many of those “midsize routes to the west coast” are currently operated by A330s, or volume A330 west coast routes will decrease as HA fragments their traffic with more options and airports via the A321.
 
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zeke
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Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: Hawaiian CEO on A321neo In-Service Economics

Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:50 pm

Polot wrote:
The A321neo is obviously going to displace some A330s, even if not at first. You can see it on page 91 of the presentation you posted. A330s are currently ~50/50 long/medium haul, A321neo will allow them to go to ~60/40. HA currently only has the 6 A338s on order. They have taken delivery of all A332 orders.

HA only has a handful of 767 left. Many of those “midsize routes to the west coast” are currently operated by A330s, or volume A330 west coast routes will decrease as HA fragments their traffic with more options and airports via the A321.


Not really the A321neo is replacing the 767, the A330 maybe doing some of their flying at the moment as they have retired many of them. They had a lot of 767s, and some mid sized routes will be replaced by the 18 A321neos, some new ones like they have already announced, and they have lot more new mid size routes yet to be announced. Some of the seasonal routes being done with the A330 will become all year round routes on the A321neo.

Look at page 61 of that presentation to see the sort of city pairs they are looking at using the A321neo on, they will be bypassing the trunk routes the A330 are on and opening up new mid size routes.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
CV880
Posts: 1004
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:56 am

Re: Hawaiian CEO on A321neo In-Service Economics

Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:59 pm

& some 321's will probably be added as 2nd or 3rd flights in some markets like LAX, SFO, LAS & SEA.

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