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USAOZ
Topic Author
Posts: 443
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:34 am

Why doesn't Air Transat fly to Hawaii & Australia/NZL ?

Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:09 am

Canada 3000 apparently had very profitable route YYZ/YVR/HNL/BNE/SYD/AKL/RAR/HNL/YVR/YYZ & vice versa.

AC now flies YVR/BNE, SYD & MEL nonstop, so why wouldn't an LCC work on similar routes ?
 
NichCage
Posts: 916
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:43 pm

Re: Why doesn't Air Transat fly to Hawaii & Australia/NZL ?

Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:51 am

Too much competition on Canada-Hawaii routes from AC and WS. TS doesn't need to serve the market.

I don't think TS has any plans to serve Australia or New Zealand, because the market is already served. YVR is operated by AC and QF, BNE on AC, and MEL on AC as well. NZ serves AKL from YVR and no other airline is needed on the route. Along with that, An A330 could not fly Canada-Austraila/New Zealand non-stop. So it won't happen anytime in the future.
 
jimbo737
Posts: 536
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:18 am

Re: Why doesn't Air Transat fly to Hawaii & Australia/NZL ?

Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:22 am

C3000 was profitable?
 
Cunard
Posts: 2510
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:45 pm

Re: Why doesn't Air Transat fly to Hawaii & Australia/NZL ?

Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:39 am

We're Canada 3000 even round long enough to make a profit as I can't imagine that they were and I can't honestly see that long route from Canada having been very profitable for the airline let alone 'a very profitable route'
as you point out!
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
USAOZ
Topic Author
Posts: 443
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:34 am

Re: Why doesn't Air Transat fly to Hawaii & Australia/NZL ?

Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:13 am

NichCage wrote:
Too much competition on Canada-Hawaii routes from AC and WS. TS doesn't need to serve the market.

I don't think TS has any plans to serve Australia or New Zealand, because the market is already served. YVR is operated by AC and QF, BNE on AC, and MEL on AC as well. NZ serves AKL from YVR and no other airline is needed on the route. Along with that, An A330 could not fly Canada-Austraila/New Zealand non-stop. So it won't happen anytime in the future.

Via Hawaii gives them 3 routes
 
USAOZ
Topic Author
Posts: 443
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:34 am

Re: Why doesn't Air Transat fly to Hawaii & Australia/NZL ?

Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:15 am

jimbo737 wrote:
C3000 was profitable?
yes they were riding very well til sep 11
 
USAOZ
Topic Author
Posts: 443
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:34 am

Re: Why doesn't Air Transat fly to Hawaii & Australia/NZL ?

Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:19 am

Cunard wrote:
We're Canada 3000 even round long enough to make a profit as I can't imagine that they were and I can't honestly see that long route from Canada having been very profitable for the airline let alone 'a very profitable route'
as you point out!

13 years from 1988 to 2001. Launch airline for a332. Probably the 1st true long haul lcc.

They designed a cabin for a332 which gave them more seats eithout reducing legroon.

A fantastic airline who were huge in 2001 after tsling over toysl & others
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5280
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Why doesn't Air Transat fly to Hawaii & Australia/NZL ?

Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:22 am

Does the Canadian Government have to approve routes for each airline?
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2853
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: Why doesn't Air Transat fly to Hawaii & Australia/NZL ?

Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:32 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
Does the Canadian Government have to approve routes for each airline?


Yes until 1987 (I think) domestically, 1995-1998 to the US (was phased-in over 3 years) and to this day for many bilaterals.
 
jimbo737
Posts: 536
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:18 am

Re: Why doesn't Air Transat fly to Hawaii & Australia/NZL ?

Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:36 am

C3000 were doing so well, they were unable to withstand the post 9/11 landscape for more than a couple of weeks.

That pretty much tells you they were a cash flow business. All it took was a few weeks without cash flow and they failed.

Trying to operate that flight, without local traffic, guaranteed it wouldn’t make any money. In saying that, it was great from a customer perspective, and I used it to go to Fiji in the spring of 2000.

If the appropriate freedoms were available, a YVR - HNL - NAN flight a couple times a week in the winter, using the Max, would probably be a winner.
 
Cunard
Posts: 2510
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:45 pm

Re: Why doesn't Air Transat fly to Hawaii & Australia/NZL ?

Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:40 am

USAOZ wrote:
Cunard wrote:
We're Canada 3000 even round long enough to make a profit as I can't imagine that they were and I can't honestly see that long route from Canada having been very profitable for the airline let alone 'a very profitable route'
as you point out!

13 years from 1988 to 2001. Launch airline for a332. Probably the 1st true long haul lcc.

They designed a cabin for a332 which gave them more seats eithout reducing legroon.

A fantastic airline who were huge in 2001 after tsling over toysl & others


I'm fully aware of Canada 3000 and it's history but it was a serious question regarding it's profitability and if it actually ever made one!

Canada 3000 were never huge no bigger than Air Transat is now.

The airline couldn't have been doing that good as it dramatically crashed and the airline was grounded 'very' shortly after 9/11 so it's finances couldn't have been in good shape at the time considering the majority of other airlines survived the setback of that terrible incident and it's prepercusions on the aviation industry.

There must have been a very obvious serious cash flow situation at Canada 3000 considering they ceased operations in September 2001 and so quickly perhaps the airline would have gone under despite 9/11!
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
USAOZ
Topic Author
Posts: 443
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:34 am

Re: Why doesn't Air Transat fly to Hawaii & Australia/NZL ?

Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:58 am

No they ceased flying late nov/early dec 2001. From record sales 10sep 01 to $0 sales within a day or so. Leisure travel died around the world.

+they had just taken over other Canadian airlines like royal & canjet i think it was called.

The yanks supported their airlines but canada didn't
 
alan3
Posts: 422
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:13 am

Re: Why doesn't Air Transat fly to Hawaii & Australia/NZL ?

Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:04 am

jimbo737 wrote:
C3000 were doing so well, they were unable to withstand the post 9/11 landscape for more than a couple of weeks.

That pretty much tells you they were a cash flow business. All it took was a few weeks without cash flow and they failed.

Trying to operate that flight, without local traffic, guaranteed it wouldn’t make any money. In saying that, it was great from a customer perspective, and I used it to go to Fiji in the spring of 2000.

If the appropriate freedoms were available, a YVR - HNL - NAN flight a couple times a week in the winter, using the Max, would probably be a winner.


For a long time, CP Air (Canadian) flew HNL-NAN (and on to SYD I believe), and then Air Pacific also flew YVR-HNL-NAN for a few years in the early 2000's.
 
USAOZ
Topic Author
Posts: 443
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:34 am

Re: Why doesn't Air Transat fly to Hawaii & Australia/NZL ?

Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:32 am

alan3 wrote:
jimbo737 wrote:
C3000 were doing so well, they were unable to withstand the post 9/11 landscape for more than a couple of weeks.

That pretty much tells you they were a cash flow business. All it took was a few weeks without cash flow and they failed.

Trying to operate that flight, without local traffic, guaranteed it wouldn’t make any money. In saying that, it was great from a customer perspective, and I used it to go to Fiji in the spring of 2000.

If the appropriate freedoms were available, a YVR - HNL - NAN flight a couple times a week in the winter, using the Max, would probably be a winner.


For a long time, CP Air (Canadian) flew HNL-NAN (and on to SYD I believe), and then Air Pacific also flew YVR-HNL-NAN for a few years in the early 2000's.

the FJ service was on a 737 !!! 737-700 I think. YVR/HNL/NAN long flight in a 737.
 
USAOZ
Topic Author
Posts: 443
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:34 am

Re: Why doesn't Air Transat fly to Hawaii & Australia/NZL ?

Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:35 am

Cunard wrote:
USAOZ wrote:
Cunard wrote:
We're Canada 3000 even round long enough to make a profit as I can't imagine that they were and I can't honestly see that long route from Canada having been very profitable for the airline let alone 'a very profitable route'
as you point out!

13 years from 1988 to 2001. Launch airline for a332. Probably the 1st true long haul lcc.

They designed a cabin for a332 which gave them more seats eithout reducing legroon.

A fantastic airline who were huge in 2001 after tsling over toysl & others


I'm fully aware of Canada 3000 and it's history but it was a serious question regarding it's profitability and if it actually ever made one!

Canada 3000 were never huge no bigger than Air Transat is now.

The airline couldn't have been doing that good as it dramatically crashed and the airline was grounded 'very' shortly after 9/11 so it's finances couldn't have been in good shape at the time considering the majority of other airlines survived the setback of that terrible incident and it's prepercusions on the aviation industry.

There must have been a very obvious serious cash flow situation at Canada 3000 considering they ceased operations in September 2001 and so quickly perhaps the airline would have gone under despite 9/11!

at one stage they were the worlds biggest charter airline, but some of their flights to Australia were called scheduled charters.

Initially they flew to Australia YVR/HNL/NAN/SYD from mid 1990s using a 2 class 752 with 224 seats in total I think. When 332 introduced NAN was dropped.
 
Whiteguy
Posts: 1558
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 6:11 am

Re: Why doesn't Air Transat fly to Hawaii & Australia/NZL ?

Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:38 am

Cunard wrote:
USAOZ wrote:
Cunard wrote:
We're Canada 3000 even round long enough to make a profit as I can't imagine that they were and I can't honestly see that long route from Canada having been very profitable for the airline let alone 'a very profitable route'
as you point out!

13 years from 1988 to 2001. Launch airline for a332. Probably the 1st true long haul lcc.

They designed a cabin for a332 which gave them more seats eithout reducing legroon.

A fantastic airline who were huge in 2001 after tsling over toysl & others


I'm fully aware of Canada 3000 and it's history but it was a serious question regarding it's profitability and if it actually ever made one!

Canada 3000 were never huge no bigger than Air Transat is now.

The airline couldn't have been doing that good as it dramatically crashed and the airline was grounded 'very' shortly after 9/11 so it's finances couldn't have been in good shape at the time considering the majority of other airlines survived the setback of that terrible incident and it's prepercusions on the aviation industry.

There must have been a very obvious serious cash flow situation at Canada 3000 considering they ceased operations in September 2001 and so quickly perhaps the airline would have gone under despite 9/11!


C3 was having money issues long before Sept 11th and they're shutdown in Nov '01. After taking over Royal they found out that the numbers were not as good as was disclosed by ML at Royal. They were losing a ton of money and C3 took on an aging fleet with high MTC costs. 9/11 was the final nail in the coffin.
 
cumulushumilis
Posts: 230
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:49 pm

Re: Why doesn't Air Transat fly to Hawaii & Australia/NZL ?

Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:05 am

Whiteguy wrote:
Cunard wrote:
USAOZ wrote:
13 years from 1988 to 2001. Launch airline for a332. Probably the 1st true long haul lcc.

They designed a cabin for a332 which gave them more seats eithout reducing legroon.

A fantastic airline who were huge in 2001 after tsling over toysl & others


I'm fully aware of Canada 3000 and it's history but it was a serious question regarding it's profitability and if it actually ever made one!

Canada 3000 were never huge no bigger than Air Transat is now.

The airline couldn't have been doing that good as it dramatically crashed and the airline was grounded 'very' shortly after 9/11 so it's finances couldn't have been in good shape at the time considering the majority of other airlines survived the setback of that terrible incident and it's prepercusions on the aviation industry.

There must have been a very obvious serious cash flow situation at Canada 3000 considering they ceased operations in September 2001 and so quickly perhaps the airline would have gone under despite 9/11!


C3 was having money issues long before Sept 11th and they're shutdown in Nov '01. After taking over Royal they found out that the numbers were not as good as was disclosed by ML at Royal. They were losing a ton of money and C3 took on an aging fleet with high MTC costs. 9/11 was the final nail in the coffin.



First mistake going scheduled.. Second mistake buying out Royal, and a hodge podge of airplanes. 2T was sustainable and doing very well up to the point that it made the cardinal sin of Airlines in Canada.. Going from Charter to Scheduled and buying out a competitor who cooks the books.

2T in its day had a great product and was well regarded higher than AT at the time...
 
Flyingsottsman
Posts: 801
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:32 pm

Re: Why doesn't Air Transat fly to Hawaii & Australia/NZL ?

Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:43 am

For a while to I think Canada 3000 started a service to Melbourne to, what was Royal Air like I have seen pictures on them, where were they based and where did they fly and were they financially sound when C3000 brought the? As for Air Transit to much competition to Hawaii and over the Pacific to Australia. I know for years Air Canada have served Sydney, its only in the last 3 years they started Brisbane and late last year Melbourne and don't serve Auckland at all. So I don't think Air Transit want to risk loosing money over the Pacific.
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 7054
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: Why doesn't Air Transat fly to Hawaii & Australia/NZL ?

Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:32 am

Flyingsottsman wrote:
what was Royal Air like I have seen pictures on them, where were they based and where did they fly and were they financially sound when C3000 brought the?


QN had its HQ at Montreal and bases at YUL and YYZ. On a smaller size, they were doing what TS does nowadays, plus cargo flights.

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