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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:59 am
by qf789
EK413 wrote:
With the confirmation of the 4 x non -ER 400’s hanging around until the end of 2019 certainly sheds some light as to why the next batch of B789’s wasn’t taken up.

It’s great to see the B747 going strong.

EK413


It will be interesting to see how QF will use the spare capacity, with BNE-LAX going 789 QF will have 1 spare 744 from September and a second one come December, the other routes can be covered with 7-8 frames, so i guess we could see SYD-YVR on a more regular basis, we could see Asian routes upgraded to the 744 freeing up A330’s for new routes, anyone got any ideas?

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:10 am
by qf789
smi0006 wrote:
qf002 wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
Ok, so with 789 and Project Sunrise, where does that leave the 789??


Right in the middle, just as the A330s slotted in between the 767s and the 747/A380s.

797 for domestic, Tasman and smaller Asian routes
787 for smaller long-haul and bigger Asian routes (particularly cargo)
777/A350 for bigger long-haul routes

The A380 (while she's still around) then continues doing pretty much what she is doing today covering biggest routes (though I imagine with 777/A350s coming in we would see some adjustments, ie DFW would lose the A380 and possibly no more SYD-SIN-LHR etc - any freed up capacity would be used to replace the 744ERs).


I wonder how big a fleet of 797 QF would be looking at, and how this impacts their 738 fleet renewal also.

Whilst from an a geek perspective I’d wish they’d hurry up with more orders. From a business perspective there are a hell of a lot of moving metrics and interwoven decisions and negotiations!! Not to mention the significant network change they are about to undertake this year- interesting times ahead.


I would think it would be at least 20 frames, maybe up to 30 frames, from the way QF is leaning the bulk of the A332 fleet could be replaced by 797’s. The range of the 797 could fit most of QF’s current routes to Asia, it would be interesting to see if they were to go with the larger 797 at around 270 seats or they go with the smaller frame as well which could open new routes and could be used quite effectively on domestic routes as the 763 was such as SYD-ADL, BNE-DRW, SYD-CNS etc

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:24 am
by oskarclare
The new 787-10 flights are available for booking from the 9th May 2018 on the SQ215/216 service. What a great upgrade for the people of Perth from the 777-200ER!

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:07 am
by qf002
qf789 wrote:
I would think it would be at least 20 frames, maybe up to 30 frames


I agree, 20 is probably the minimum they need to make a new type viable. That replaces the A332s and from there is just a matter of how many 738s they want to roll over and how ambitious they want to be with new routes.

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:19 am
by cam747
oskarclare wrote:
The new 787-10 flights are available for booking from the 9th May 2018 on the SQ215/216 service. What a great upgrade for the people of Perth from the 777-200ER!


The refurbished 772ER's are actually much nicer in J than their A333's. IMO it would have been better if they had replaced the overnight A333 flight with the 787. Nevertheless, great for PER to be the first Aussie destination. Hopefully ADL is next :pray:

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:59 am
by qf789
Qantas PER-LHR (30 days to go) is expected to see an increase of British visitors. Currently Britain is WA's biggest source of tourists at around 143,000 a year. According to a VisitBritain representative there has been a lot of chatter and discussion in the UK of Perth as a tourist destination. Another round of marketing is set to happen over the coming weeks prior to the launch.

https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wa/qan ... b88753014z

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:11 am
by EK413
qf789 wrote:
EK413 wrote:
With the confirmation of the 4 x non -ER 400’s hanging around until the end of 2019 certainly sheds some light as to why the next batch of B789’s wasn’t taken up.

It’s great to see the B747 going strong.

EK413


It will be interesting to see how QF will use the spare capacity, with BNE-LAX going 789 QF will have 1 spare 744 from September and a second one come December, the other routes can be covered with 7-8 frames, so i guess we could see SYD-YVR on a more regular basis, we could see Asian routes upgraded to the 744 freeing up A330’s for new routes, anyone got any ideas?


Interesting indeed but I also assume the capacity will be deployed to cover A380 capacity whilst they under go reconfigure & heavy maintenance.

EK413

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:23 am
by Dan23
cam747 wrote:
oskarclare wrote:
The new 787-10 flights are available for booking from the 9th May 2018 on the SQ215/216 service. What a great upgrade for the people of Perth from the 777-200ER!


The refurbished 772ER's are actually much nicer in J than their A333's. IMO it would have been better if they had replaced the overnight A333 flight with the 787. Nevertheless, great for PER to be the first Aussie destination. Hopefully ADL is next :pray:

SQ215/216 is the evening flight (with the red eye return to SIN) currently operated by an A333.

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:26 am
by CraigAnderson
For no particular reason, I'd like to thank QF789 for his continued posting of news and stories here on A.net, it really has become my 'several times a day' go-to website.

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:27 am
by qf789
Dan23 wrote:
cam747 wrote:
oskarclare wrote:
The new 787-10 flights are available for booking from the 9th May 2018 on the SQ215/216 service. What a great upgrade for the people of Perth from the 777-200ER!


The refurbished 772ER's are actually much nicer in J than their A333's. IMO it would have been better if they had replaced the overnight A333 flight with the 787. Nevertheless, great for PER to be the first Aussie destination. Hopefully ADL is next :pray:

SQ215/216 is the evening flight (with the red eye return to SIN) currently operated by an A333.


They were talking about SQ225/224 flight, SQ225 being a red eye from SIN, morning flight from PER

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:33 am
by Dan23
qf789 wrote:
They were talking about SQ225/224 flight, SQ225 being a red eye from SIN, morning flight from PER

Yes but the SQ215/216 is the one being swapped to the 787-10 (replacing an A330 not a 777).

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:55 pm
by qf789
Qantas is holding the line firm on 787 options being they must prove themselves first, it also seems that they are undecided on what the 744er's will be replaced with.

Initially a year ago it was announced that the 778 or A359ULR would be used as replacement along with using them for new ULR routes. Recently they have shifted their thinking that 789's could replace the 744ER's

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ns-446113/

What's everyone's view on this? It does not seem that one is favoured over the other to replace the 744ER fleet. On one hand 789's would be beneficial to operate SYD-JNB and SYD-SCL both of which could be operated daily round. It would also allow SYD-SFO year round. If SYD-SFO went 789 there would be a reduction in capacity we could see additional frequencies added to SYD or we can see MEL-SFO increased or a new service from BNE. Likewise with JNB a daily 789 would offer less capacity than what is offered now. We could see JNB served from another city, possibly PER or we could see the capacity taken off SYD-JNB to start SYD-CPT. On the other hand the 789 is too small for both SYD-HKG and SYD-HND. Both would require the 778/A359ULR as slots for both airports would be difficult to get hold of to operate additional flights. Thoughts?

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:11 pm
by qf002
qf789 wrote:
What's everyone's view on this?


Despite statements to the contrary I suspect QF is having second thoughts about the 787. We know for sure that they are actively exploring alternatives for both the long-haul and regional fleets, and that they are buying A321LRs in big numbers for JQ (18 initially, potentially another ~40 to come). Between Project Sunrise and the 797 it may well be that the 787 doesn't play as big a role at QF as we had all imagined it would.

If that's the case then they don't want to overcommit to the 787 to fix a short-term need for capacity. They don't want to reach 2025 and realise that 30+ aircraft across the Group is too many and that they should have invested in other types instead.

Having now flown on both the 787 (admitted not QF's) and A350 I would be more than happy to see QF swing right away from the 787 and toward the A350 but that's just my personal preference. I don't think we will see any further movements on QF's part until (a) Boeing starts making some commitments on the 797, and (b) QF has a clearer idea of where they are headed with Project Sunrise.

I'm starting to think that used A333s might be QF's best bet in the short-term.

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:21 pm
by RyanairGuru
qf002 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
What's everyone's view on this?


Despite statements to the contrary I suspect QF is having second thoughts about the 787. We know for sure that they are actively exploring alternatives for both the long-haul and regional fleets, and that they are buying A321LRs in big numbers for JQ (18 initially, potentially another ~40 to come). Between Project Sunrise and the 797 it may well be that the 787 doesn't play as big a role at QF as we had all imagined it would.

If that's the case then they don't want to overcommit to the 787 to fix a short-term need for capacity. They don't want to reach 2025 and realise that 30+ aircraft across the Group is too many and that they should have invested in other types instead.

Having now flown on both the 787 (admitted not QF's) and A350 I would be more than happy to see QF swing right away from the 787 and toward the A350 but that's just my personal preference. I don't think we will see any further movements on QF's part until (a) Boeing starts making some commitments on the 797, and (b) QF has a clearer idea of where they are headed with Project Sunrise.

I'm starting to think that used A333s might be QF's best bet in the short-term.


I sort of agree and disagree. I think that Qantas will take delivery of most/all of the remaining 787s in order, but I agree that until Boeing are able to provide some clarity on the 797 and 77X that Qantas are left in a state of limbo. How many 787s they ultimately take is interconnected with what is decided for the 737/332 replacement on one end and the ULH order and VLA replacement on the other.

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:54 pm
by getluv
RyanairGuru wrote:
qf002 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
What's everyone's view on this?


Despite statements to the contrary I suspect QF is having second thoughts about the 787. We know for sure that they are actively exploring alternatives for both the long-haul and regional fleets, and that they are buying A321LRs in big numbers for JQ (18 initially, potentially another ~40 to come). Between Project Sunrise and the 797 it may well be that the 787 doesn't play as big a role at QF as we had all imagined it would.

If that's the case then they don't want to overcommit to the 787 to fix a short-term need for capacity. They don't want to reach 2025 and realise that 30+ aircraft across the Group is too many and that they should have invested in other types instead.

Having now flown on both the 787 (admitted not QF's) and A350 I would be more than happy to see QF swing right away from the 787 and toward the A350 but that's just my personal preference. I don't think we will see any further movements on QF's part until (a) Boeing starts making some commitments on the 797, and (b) QF has a clearer idea of where they are headed with Project Sunrise.

I'm starting to think that used A333s might be QF's best bet in the short-term.


I sort of agree and disagree. I think that Qantas will take delivery of most/all of the remaining 787s in order, but I agree that until Boeing are able to provide some clarity on the 797 and 77X that Qantas are left in a state of limbo. How many 787s they ultimately take is interconnected with what is decided for the 737/332 replacement on one end and the ULH order and VLA replacement on the other.


:checkmark:

I think there's plenty of room for the 787 to run. The fact that they are delaying the removal of the old 747-400s means they need more aircraft and there's room for another set of deliveries at the end of 2019 and further deliveries in 2020 during their 100th anniversary. With 787-10 deliveries replacing A330s a few years later.

The only way QF can continue to grow in the short-medium term is to continue to expand internationally with QF and JQ.

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:54 pm
by 81819
The 797 would be used to replace 737's as well. For SE Asian flights the aircraft would probably be too small for the main gateways.

I don't see the 797 as having an economic operating advantage over the 787-10 other than it can be used to right size capacity with demand.

So from this perspective the 797 would probably be the ideal aircraft to replace the ten A330-200 aircraft used for domestic flights. For SE Asian flying the 787-10 will still have superior economics so it would have a good chance of entering the QF fleet.

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:37 pm
by redroo
My view on this is that qantas wants to offer its higher yielding Australian customers the ability to get from their capital city to anywhere in the world. The days of big birds are over.

The 787 is perfect to enable non stop from any capital city to almost anywhere on the network. One aircraft can do Asia, West Coast USA and Europe. And it’s half the size of the jumbo making it much easier to fill.

There are a couple of gaps in the fleet. There is a need for a plane that’s a bit lighter and more suited to domestic flying AND there is a need for something that can fly a bit further (London and NYC) and is a bit bigger.

The A330 are great for domestic but they are a big heavy long haul plane. A 797 replacement in ten years time would be perfect for the domestic a332s. Essentially bring back the 767.

At the top end I believe the 778 is much better than the a350. It gives the reach for NYC and London PLUS it gives more seats to use on the LAXs and around Asia as needed. The A380 will not be replaced. It is not loved and it’s not aligned to strategy.

I think the fleet will look like
10 797
20 787
10+ 777

I would personally trade off some efficiency for flexibility which is why i exclude the 787-10 and the various a350s.

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:31 pm
by Gemuser
redroo wrote:
My view on this is that qantas wants to offer its higher yielding Australian customers the ability to get from their capital city to anywhere in the world. The days of big birds are over.

I disagree that the days of the big birds are over. Their days of providing the top line flagship type service do seem to be over and demand for non stop to everywhere is growing BUT what about the rest of us who cannot afford those non stop services? That is a much bigger market, low yield but bigger. While I wish the PER-LHR service success I have great doubts as to its viability and I believe will not last beyond the start of SYD/MEL-LHR non stops, if they happen and if the PER service lasts that long.
Hopefully Project Sunrise will result in viable non stop services, but it is by no means certain. There will still be a need for lower cost service, which will be most efficiently done with large aircraft. If the ULH non stops really take off then I can see QF transferring the A380s to JQ who would run them in a 700 or so seat configuration on the most highly traffic routes. Say SYD/MEL-LAX or somewhere on the west coast with good land/air links to the rest of North America and SYD/MEL-somewhere in east/south Europe (say FCO for example), somewhere with good land/air links to the rest of Europe.
I really do see service from/to Australia splitting into the ULH market and the large aircraft mass market, both could be very viable.

Gemuser

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:43 pm
by mariner
redroo wrote:
It is not loved and it’s not aligned to strategy.


You mean you don't love it? Or this board, perhaps? Some at Qantas, maybe? AJ may not "love" the aircraft but he isn't looking for an early opportunity to ditch it and he's surely shovelling a lot of Qantas pax on to it through Dubai.

This passenger loves it - me. I'll go out of my way to fly on the A380 and I know others who feel the same way. We don't get to vote, of course.

mariner

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:58 pm
by redroo
mariner wrote:
redroo wrote:
It is not loved and it’s not aligned to strategy.


You mean you don't love it? Or this board, perhaps? Some at Qantas, maybe? AJ may not "love" the aircraft but he isn't looking for an early opportunity to ditch it and he's surely shovelling a lot of Qantas pax on to it through Dubai.

This passenger loves it - me. I'll go out of my way to fly on the A380 and I know others who feel the same way. We don't get to vote, of course.

mariner


The people at qantas I know don’t love it.

I’ve never argued qantas will sell of the a380 early. That would be a shocking use of shareholders money. What they will probably do is use them till they fall apart. They’re a probably another 10 years left in the aircraft at which point I highly doubt they will replace them with more a380.

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:17 pm
by mariner
redroo wrote:
The people at qantas I know don’t love it..


Oh, sure. There are people at Qantas who won't be happy until the fleet is all-Boeing, all-the-time, whether the aircraft is best for the job or not. LOL. Given the way AJ seems to be heading, they may get their wish.

mariner

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:20 pm
by redroo
mariner wrote:
redroo wrote:
The people at qantas I know don’t love it..


Oh, sure. There are people at Qantas who won't be happy until the fleet is all-Boeing, all-the-time, whether the aircraft is best for the job or not. LOL. Given the way AJ seems to be heading, they may get their wish.

mariner


:-)

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:33 pm
by JBusworth
Gemuser wrote:
redroo wrote:
My view on this is that qantas wants to offer its higher yielding Australian customers the ability to get from their capital city to anywhere in the world. The days of big birds are over.

I disagree that the days of the big birds are over. Their days of providing the top line flagship type service do seem to be over and demand for non stop to everywhere is growing BUT what about the rest of us who cannot afford those non stop services? That is a much bigger market, low yield but bigger. While I wish the PER-LHR service success I have great doubts as to its viability and I believe will not last beyond the start of SYD/MEL-LHR non stops, if they happen and if the PER service lasts that long.
Hopefully Project Sunrise will result in viable non stop services, but it is by no means certain. There will still be a need for lower cost service, which will be most efficiently done with large aircraft. If the ULH non stops really take off then I can see QF transferring the A380s to JQ who would run them in a 700 or so seat configuration on the most highly traffic routes. Say SYD/MEL-LAX or somewhere on the west coast with good land/air links to the rest of North America and SYD/MEL-somewhere in east/south Europe (say FCO for example), somewhere with good land/air links to the rest of Europe.
I really do see service from/to Australia splitting into the ULH market and the large aircraft mass market, both could be very viable.

Gemuser


I'm not sure JQ will ever see the A380. 10 years from now I think the QF A380s will be flying SYD-LAX/SIN/HKG/HND and MEL-LAX/SIN. They are perfect for the popular Asian routes to airports where slots are restricted and also LAX which still needs the capacity.

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:30 am
by qf2220
Ok so maybe the international fleet will look like this:

A380 - medium/long haul, low cost high volume one stop. IE SYD & MEL to LHR/LAX/HKG/SIN with stopovers. Retaining a place in this market.
Sunrise - ULH point to point premium traffic. Mainly SYD and MEL to LHR/CDG/FRA etc and JFK/ORD (what about others like YYZ, GRU/GIG maybe??)
789 - LH, thinner routes. Premium traffic. This would replace 744s on the SCL and JNB and allow them to right size aircraft to suit daily frequency (SCL) and ensure profitability (JNB). Alows new thinner pacific routes (eg SFO daily, SEA/YVR). Replaces longer A330 flying into Asia (maybe Japan) but not much. Perhaps allows opening of longer asian routes such as PEK, perhaps ICN??
797 - MH, point to point mainly into Asia with heavier focus on closer parts of Asia. Would replace and expand other current A330 services and fill gap between A330 and 737. Would make appearances on the domestic network too though frequency appears to be QF's preference now.
737 - SH/MH, though possibly no longer needed for International. NB I am considering AKL/CHC/WEL/ZQN to be domestic network for the purposes of this.

Big unknown for me is the future of the ERs. theyre pretty unique 744s and their extra fuel tanks give QF something other operators dont have.

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:18 am
by qf789
QF to move from Terminsl 7 to Terminal 8 at JFK from early April

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-moves-t ... ource=hero

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:39 am
by cam747
Dan23 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
They were talking about SQ225/224 flight, SQ225 being a red eye from SIN, morning flight from PER

Yes but the SQ215/216 is the one being swapped to the 787-10 (replacing an A330 not a 777).


No, oskarclare is correct.  215/16 is currently a 772 service, not A333.  My point was I would have preferred they replace the one overnight A333 service (which is SQ224/225) rather than one of the 772ER services.
(And purely for selfish reasons as I am booked on 224/225 in May and would have liked to try the 787-10 )

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:01 am
by CraigAnderson
This is interesting, AusBT has detailed the delivery flight of SQ Boeing 787-10 which it will be on, and also opened up a discussion about these types of media trips and junkets, answering questions from readers. Good to see some transparency for a change! https://www.ausbt.com.au/community/view ... -28/page-1

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:29 am
by qf789
cam747 wrote:
Dan23 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
They were talking about SQ225/224 flight, SQ225 being a red eye from SIN, morning flight from PER

Yes but the SQ215/216 is the one being swapped to the 787-10 (replacing an A330 not a 777).


No, oskarclare is correct.  215/16 is currently a 772 service, not A333. 


SQ215/216 is currently an A333 service

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:04 am
by DavidByrne
qf2220 wrote:
They’re pretty unique 744s and their extra fuel tanks give QF something other operators dont have.

And mostly don’t need! I doubt they’ll attract much interest if put on the market when they are due for retirement. Best for QF to depreciate them completely I’d think.

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:25 am
by Planesmart
travelhound wrote:
Planesmart wrote:
travelhound wrote:
The A380's will be progressively coming off finance over the next 2-4 years. This will free up a considerable amount of CAPEX for new aircraft purchases.

The A380's initial acquisition funding matures. They will be re-financed, with funds used to pay down the maturing A380 loans, for the refits, to acquire other aircraft and assets, and residual A380 value.


Over the last five years Alan Joyce and his team have been fairly committed to paying down / buying out leases on existing aircraft to ensure a large number of aircraft are encumbered.

This strategy seems to be in contrast to the Geoff Dixon days when an aircraft coming off lease would be re-financed.

As a point of interest, in the 2006-08 period Geoff Dixon and co. re-financed much of the 744 fleet to assist with CAPEX of the A380 and its introduction into the fleet. I'd suggest the QANTAS woes in the 2010-2014 period were in part directly related to the inflexibility of these financial transactions and the consequences it had on fleet planning / optimisation.

From this perspective, I believe QANTAS will ensure the A380's remain unencumbered once they come off finance. More realistically, an aircraft like the 787 would probably have more financial leverage if QANTAS did decide they need to raise money to help fund CAPEX. The A330-300 fleet, which are all owned by QANTAS could be an indicator of QANTAS’s fleet financing strategies.

Every aircraft in the Qantas fleet has either a fixed or floating charge over it.

As the company's financial performance has improved, and value of older aircraft has diminished, the margin between specific loan/fixed charge/longer terms and non-specific loan/floating charge/shorter terms, has narrowed to the point the flexibility/margin differential is such the latter is the preferred option.

If Qantas place a large order,and/or the financial outlook changes markedly, watch the focus switch to the former.

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:24 am
by cam747
qf789 wrote:
cam747 wrote:
Dan23 wrote:
Yes but the SQ215/216 is the one being swapped to the 787-10 (replacing an A330 not a 777).


No, oskarclare is correct.  215/16 is currently a 772 service, not A333. 


SQ215/216 is currently an A333 service


Where are you getting that info from?

I just booked SQ flights out of PER last week so I studied the timetable pretty well. Just checked SQ website now and it show SQ215/16 as a 772 service - all the way up until May, after then, the aircraft name disappears (which I assume is when it changes to a 787).

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:26 am
by CraigAnderson
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/sq215 shows SQ215 as being an A333 in the past but notes it changes to a 772 from March 1

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:44 am
by cougar15
travelhound wrote:
The 797 would be used to replace 737's as well. For SE Asian flights the aircraft would probably be too small for the main gateways.

I don't see the 797 as having an economic operating advantage over the 787-10 other than it can be used to right size capacity with demand.

So from this perspective the 797 would probably be the ideal aircraft to replace the ten A330-200 aircraft used for domestic flights. For SE Asian flying the 787-10 will still have superior economics so it would have a good chance of entering the QF fleet.


All this chatter about the 797 (a yet to be formally defined AC) reminds me a little of a thread here about 6 months ago, started by our dear friend KarelXWB about Sir Tim Clark confirming that no order for either 350 or 787 would be placed at the Dubai Show. I did make a point of mentioning that tactics, strategies and a few well placed rumours here or there is exactly what CEO levels earn all that untold money for. Of course I got flamed to death in that thread .
So along comes the big show in Dubai...EK.... 787-10.... etc etc . and we all know the rest!

Good on AJ´s support for the 797, wonder what all of us will actually be travelling on in 2025 on the red rat? A or B?

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:49 am
by EK413
cougar15 wrote:
travelhound wrote:
The 797 would be used to replace 737's as well. For SE Asian flights the aircraft would probably be too small for the main gateways.

I don't see the 797 as having an economic operating advantage over the 787-10 other than it can be used to right size capacity with demand.

So from this perspective the 797 would probably be the ideal aircraft to replace the ten A330-200 aircraft used for domestic flights. For SE Asian flying the 787-10 will still have superior economics so it would have a good chance of entering the QF fleet.


All this chatter about the 797 (a yet to be formally defined AC) reminds me a little of a thread here about 6 months ago, started by our dear friend KarelXWB about Sir Tim Clark confirming that no order for either 350 or 787 would be placed at the Dubai Show. I did make a point of mentioning that tactics, strategies and a few well placed rumours here or there is exactly what CEO levels earn all that untold money for. Of course I got flamed to death in that thread .
So along comes the big show in Dubai...EK.... 787-10.... etc etc . and we all know the rest!

Good on AJ´s support for the 797, wonder what all of us will actually be travelling on in 2025 on the red rat? A or B?


Wouldn’t surprise me if mainline consists of B737Max, B797, B788, B789, & B778 whilst JQ A320NEO, A321NEO & A321LR.

It’s anyones guess.

EK413

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:49 am
by cam747
CraigAnderson wrote:
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/sq215 shows SQ215 as being an A333 in the past but notes it changes to a 772 from March 1


Thanks that solves it.

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:29 am
by redroo
The 797 is an interesting proposition for QF. There is clearly a need for something bigger than the 737. The golden triangle needs it during peak hours. The west coast needs it during peak hours. They need to move cargo around.

The 330 works but it is a lot of plane and weight for what are essentially 2 to 5 hour hops.

The 321 is an interesting proposition but I don’t think it gives QF enough. QF have no issue filling a 767/330 during peak hours. I think the 321 will be too small.

The capital city flying is only going to increase. Sure there may be a bit of leakage to Badgerys Creek when it finally opens but for the next 25-50 years I can’t see anything changing at SYD or MEL that won’t encourage a movement to larger than 737 flying.

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:08 am
by cougar15
redroo wrote:
The 797 is an interesting proposition for QF. There is clearly a need for something bigger than the 737. The golden triangle needs it during peak hours. The west coast needs it during peak hours. They need to move cargo around.

The 330 works but it is a lot of plane and weight for what are essentially 2 to 5 hour hops.

The 321 is an interesting proposition but I don’t think it gives QF enough. QF have no issue filling a 767/330 during peak hours. I think the 321 will be too small.

The capital city flying is only going to increase. Sure there may be a bit of leakage to Badgerys Creek when it finally opens but for the next 25-50 years I can’t see anything changing at SYD or MEL that won’t encourage a movement to larger than 737 flying.


I appreciate your point, but will (with global) market demands, a 797 be optimized for the east coast triangle? Yes, I know, some Asian sectors in between etc etc, but I do not see Boeing providing an Aircraft to suit this type of operation, especially considering the other operators (and their requirements & potential purchase volumes) who have indicated interest. Has Airbus got anything more optimized? No, not really, so no fanboyism here, but in my humble personal opinion, AJ s signals are too early to be taken serious, they may just as well be something we have seen a lot of recently at various global carriers to get the leverage on pricing they desire with both OEMs.
I dare not judge which way this one is going, am just a little weary at the fact that it appears as though all eggs are in the 797 basket just yet, despite the fanfare.....

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:31 am
by angusjt
The first QLink a320 was rolled out earlier today, it is due to arrive in Perth this weekend, I don't have any times or images, just repeating what I have been told.

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:10 pm
by qf789
Air Mauritius will send the A330-900 to PER on a weekly basis from 14 December

Aircraft configuration is 28J263Y, A332's are configured 24J251Y

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1387261&p=20196487#p20196487

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:13 pm
by qf789
Crown Perth is hoping Qantas direct PER-LHR flights along with the new stadium will revive profits

https://thewest.com.au/business/crown-p ... b88755103z

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:24 pm
by waoz1
qf789 wrote:
Air Mauritius will send the A330-900 to PER on a weekly basis from 14 December

Aircraft configuration is 28J263Y, A332's are configured 24J251Y

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1387261&p=20196487#p20196487


Air Maurtius seem to be doing very well out of Perth, extra flight a week and now and now extra seats on a350

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:26 pm
by waoz1
qf789 wrote:
Crown Perth is hoping Qantas direct PER-LHR flights along with the new stadium will revive profits

https://thewest.com.au/business/crown-p ... b88755103z


Apparently theres been quiet a bit of interest in London.

Lots of advertising plus two weeks out from service commencing they are setting up VR stations to promote WA on the underground.

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:28 pm
by qf789
waoz1 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Air Mauritius will send the A330-900 to PER on a weekly basis from 14 December

Aircraft configuration is 28J263Y, A332's are configured 24J251Y

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1387261&p=20196487#p20196487


Air Maurtius seem to be doing very well out of Perth, extra flight a week and now and now extra seats on a350


You mean A330-900 or commonally known as the A339

Not sure if you noticed but Air Mauritius operated 4 weekly flights to PER over December and January

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:30 pm
by waoz1
qf789 wrote:
waoz1 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Air Mauritius will send the A330-900 to PER on a weekly basis from 14 December

Aircraft configuration is 28J263Y, A332's are configured 24J251Y

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1387261&p=20196487#p20196487


Air Maurtius seem to be doing very well out of Perth, extra flight a week and now and now extra seats on a350


You mean A330-900 or commonally known as the A339

Not sure if you noticed but Air Mauritius operated 4 weekly flights to PER over December and January


My bad long day
So guessing this is the a339 first visit to oz

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:39 pm
by qf789
waoz1 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
waoz1 wrote:

Air Maurtius seem to be doing very well out of Perth, extra flight a week and now and now extra seats on a350


You mean A330-900 or commonally known as the A339

Not sure if you noticed but Air Mauritius operated 4 weekly flights to PER over December and January


My bad long day
So guessing this is the a339 first visit to oz


Quite probably, not sure when AirAsia X get them.

Its also good to see existing airlines to PER upgrading, so far this year we QR going to A388, SQ adding the 787-10 and now seeing the A339 albeit that is a small increase. Add in an extra GA PER-CGK and MH adding extra frequencies as well.

We also have MU doing a trial later in the year and lets hope we get a service to NRT

Through in double daily QF PER-SIN along with PER-LHR and I would say that is a pretty good achievement for PER considering recent years

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:44 pm
by qf2220
DavidByrne wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
They’re pretty unique 744s and their extra fuel tanks give QF something other operators dont have.

And mostly don’t need! I doubt they’ll attract much interest if put on the market when they are due for retirement. Best for QF to depreciate them completely I’d think.


Yep tend to agree. I wonder though if perhaps they'd make for decent freighter conversions? QF could move on from their Atlas contracts...

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:10 pm
by qf789
According to the following re JQ A321LR order

Providing DPS goes all A321LR from MEL, SYD and BNE, on current capacity MEL-DPS will require 3 daily and both SYD and BNE to DPS will required to go from a daily service to 10 weekly. By DPS going to A321LR it would free up 4 788's, what sort of new routes could we see?

https://blueswandaily.com/delving-deepe ... a321neolr/

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:19 pm
by waoz1
qf789 wrote:
waoz1 wrote:
qf789 wrote:

You mean A330-900 or commonally known as the A339

Not sure if you noticed but Air Mauritius operated 4 weekly flights to PER over December and January


My bad long day
So guessing this is the a339 first visit to oz


Quite probably, not sure when AirAsia X get them.

Its also good to see existing airlines to PER upgrading, so far this year we QR going to A388, SQ adding the 787-10 and now seeing the A339 albeit that is a small increase. Add in an extra GA PER-CGK and MH adding extra frequencies as well.

We also have MU doing a trial later in the year and lets hope we get a service to NRT

Through in double daily QF PER-SIN along with PER-LHR and I would say that is a pretty good achievement for PER considering recent years


With the WA officially bottoming out and now on the up we can only hope.

I know someone who just booked out on QR on the new A388 service to europe for $1100 return which is insane.

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:09 pm
by oskarclare
qf789 wrote:
According to the following re JQ A321LR order

Providing DPS goes all A321LR from MEL, SYD and BNE, on current capacity MEL-DPS will require 3 daily and both SYD and BNE to DPS will required to go from a daily service to 10 weekly. By DPS going to A321LR it would free up 4 788's, what sort of new routes could we see?

https://blueswandaily.com/delving-deepe ... a321neolr/


I know it won't happen because it is Jetstar and all they do is fly from mostly Melbourne and some Sydney, it would be nice to see BNE-HKT and BNE-SGN if it hasn't already started.

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:35 pm
by redroo
cougar15 wrote:
redroo wrote:
The 797 is an interesting proposition for QF. There is clearly a need for something bigger than the 737. The golden triangle needs it during peak hours. The west coast needs it during peak hours. They need to move cargo around.

The 330 works but it is a lot of plane and weight for what are essentially 2 to 5 hour hops.

The 321 is an interesting proposition but I don’t think it gives QF enough. QF have no issue filling a 767/330 during peak hours. I think the 321 will be too small.

The capital city flying is only going to increase. Sure there may be a bit of leakage to Badgerys Creek when it finally opens but for the next 25-50 years I can’t see anything changing at SYD or MEL that won’t encourage a movement to larger than 737 flying.


I appreciate your point, but will (with global) market demands, a 797 be optimized for the east coast triangle? Yes, I know, some Asian sectors in between etc etc, but I do not see Boeing providing an Aircraft to suit this type of operation, especially considering the other operators (and their requirements & potential purchase volumes) who have indicated interest. Has Airbus got anything more optimized? No, not really, so no fanboyism here, but in my humble personal opinion, AJ s signals are too early to be taken serious, they may just as well be something we have seen a lot of recently at various global carriers to get the leverage on pricing they desire with both OEMs.
I dare not judge which way this one is going, am just a little weary at the fact that it appears as though all eggs are in the 797 basket just yet, despite the fanfare.....



Sorry, you misunderstand me. The 797 wont be optimised for Qantas' needs on the golden triangle. No one will ever build a plane for that. An aircraft that is lighter and with a smaller wing than the 787 and A330 will be *better* suited for Qantas domestic/tasman needs than the current A330.