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cougar15
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:07 am

A350OZ wrote:
qf789 wrote:
JB says VA’s performance on MEL-HKG is an indicator on the success on how SYD-HKG will perform

Still planning on having a flight to China

https://www.ausbt.com.au/virgin-austral ... ource=hero


Well MEL-HKG can't be that successful if they scale it back from daily to 5pw and throw daily at SYD instead. But they will also have data on how many pax connect from SYD through MEL nowadays, so they will obviously go direct in the future.


Having worked overseas for many years (but always actively watching this thread), I always wondered about the negativity relating to VAs intl ops, but more and more I understand. They seem to be all over the shop. It leaves the impression of a lack of strategy. they try something new for a while (like this MEL-HKG), only to chop & change a few months later. To me - as a previously outside observer - this seems like a prime example of that! Markets need a little longer to mature I would think, brand awareness needs to be generated , especially on the HKG side (and yes, I appreciate slot issues were not in their favour, the Hainan angle etc), yet already they are reducing service. That does not look like there is any clear strategic direction in what their international arm is up too. It strikes me a bit of a ´let´s dip into the hat, see what rabbit we drag out and give that a try´ sort of scenario. I wish them every success, I think the competition is needed, but - at least in my humble opinion - they do leave me scratching my head a little in regards to mid & long term strategic direction
some you lose, others you can´t win!
 
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qf2220
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:13 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
Lets use the exact words:
"may be forced to reduce the frequency of, downgauge or potentially cancel its A380 service between Sydney and Dallas/Fort Worth"
Cancellation is the third of these options. Capacity cuts are the first and second options.....


Yes but don't ever expect the media to say "Qantas might not fly SYD-DFW daily" when they can scream "QANTAS TO AXE SYD-DFW AIRBUS A380!" LOL


I would expect the media to hype it, but I would expect that we on these boards would look deeper into the facts and not fall into media traps...
 
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JBusworth
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:17 am

A350OZ wrote:
qf789 wrote:
JB says VA’s performance on MEL-HKG is an indicator on the success on how SYD-HKG will perform

Still planning on having a flight to China

https://www.ausbt.com.au/virgin-austral ... ource=hero


Well MEL-HKG can't be that successful if they scale it back from daily to 5pw and throw daily at SYD instead. But they will also have data on how many pax connect from SYD through MEL nowadays, so they will obviously go direct in the future.


When are they reducing MEL-HKG to 5x weekly? I must have missed that one.
What mainland routes are they targeting? Surely out of BNE would be best?
 
sq256
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:45 am

Have heard unofficially VA were scaling back MEL-HKG to 5x to allow for daily SYD-HKG, but have not heard official confirmation from the GDS sources.

Was there only 5x new HKG slot pairs available for VA? and did the available slots came from horse trading by partner HX on VA's behalf?
 
kriskim
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:35 am

sq256 wrote:
Have heard unofficially VA were scaling back MEL-HKG to 5x to allow for daily SYD-HKG, but have not heard official confirmation from the GDS sources.

Was there only 5x new HKG slot pairs available for VA? and did the available slots came from horse trading by partner HX on VA's behalf?


Looks like the SYD flights will take over the current MEL slots, while the MEL flights will move to a midnight departure. Looks like VA are finding it hard getting slots at HKG for the MEL flights to go daily at that time. It makes sense when considering the SYD curfew as well.
A world built upon connectivity.
 
xiaotung
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:42 am

JBusworth wrote:
What mainland routes are they targeting? Surely out of BNE would be best?


There is no point flying to anywhere other than PEK and PVG which are the only places with some higher yielding traffic. If slots are the only problem holding them back from launching, surely VA would find it easier to get slots when Beijing's second airport Daxing opens next year.
 
smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:55 am

A350OZ wrote:
qf789 wrote:
JB says VA’s performance on MEL-HKG is an indicator on the success on how SYD-HKG will perform

Still planning on having a flight to China

https://www.ausbt.com.au/virgin-austral ... ource=hero


Well MEL-HKG can't be that successful if they scale it back from daily to 5pw and throw daily at SYD instead. But they will also have data on how many pax connect from SYD through MEL nowadays, so they will obviously go direct in the future.


I didn’t realise they were scaling back to 5 pw- not a good sign. I do feel VA should pick an international port to hub and focus from for scale- SYD/MEL/BNE - not spread themselves across all three. Although QF have SYD locked up, and to a lesser extent QF/JQ almost have MEL too
 
waoz1
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:03 am

Rex announce 40% increase in profits as well as increased passenger numbers... glad they are doing well.

http://www.news.com.au/finance/business ... 4d89ff42fd
 
sq256
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:09 am

There's also the situation of VA part-owner HNA group via HX wanting access to the "Big 4" in Australia. It also rumoured the the tit for tat between AU and HK over the years (including the JQ HK drama) is what stopping both regulators from agreeing on a increase in capacity/slots for HK carriers.

One of the primary reasons why VA is flying SYD/MEL-HKG in the first place is because part owner HNA's group carrier HX is not able to, due to the said full bilaterals between both countries.
 
ben175
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:10 am

Can anybody find where this reduction in transcon 332 flying is coming from?
 
Obzerva
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:48 am

A350OZ wrote:
qf789 wrote:
JB says VA’s performance on MEL-HKG is an indicator on the success on how SYD-HKG will perform

Still planning on having a flight to China

https://www.ausbt.com.au/virgin-austral ... ource=hero


Well MEL-HKG can't be that successful if they scale it back from daily to 5pw and throw daily at SYD instead. But they will also have data on how many pax connect from SYD through MEL nowadays, so they will obviously go direct in the future.


didn't VA start MEL-HKG as 5 weekly, and then move to daily because of slots.
Haven't seen their scaling that back.
Just checked July through to Sep and it's still showing as 10am from Melbourne every day without exception.
 
waoz1
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:22 am

Obzerva wrote:
A350OZ wrote:
qf789 wrote:
JB says VA’s performance on MEL-HKG is an indicator on the success on how SYD-HKG will perform

Still planning on having a flight to China

https://www.ausbt.com.au/virgin-austral ... ource=hero


Well MEL-HKG can't be that successful if they scale it back from daily to 5pw and throw daily at SYD instead. But they will also have data on how many pax connect from SYD through MEL nowadays, so they will obviously go direct in the future.


didn't VA start MEL-HKG as 5 weekly, and then move to daily because of slots.
Haven't seen their scaling that back.
Just checked July through to Sep and it's still showing as 10am from Melbourne every day without exception.


Wouldnt trust that... i remember them doing Perth - Abu Dhabi then canned it and moved passengers onto Etihad.
 
waoz1
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:37 am

Malaysia Airlines looking to increase capacity to Perth moving to A330s
Looks like Air Asia X's loss is MAS's gain.

"Meanwhile, six A330-200s leased from AerCap will arrive on a staggered basis starting from the second quarter through the third. The airline will deploy them on routes to Mumbai, Delhi, Cheenai, Bangalore, Dhaka, Perth, Kathmandu, Shanghai, Denpasar, and Auckland. Previously used by the now defunct Air Berlin, the A330-200s are on dry lease for six years and will replace six 737-800s now scheduled for return to their lessors."


https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... challenges

https://www.nst.com.my/business/2018/02 ... -structure
 
A350OZ
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:51 am

Re MEL reduction to 5pw, I only picked this up from the AusBT article that was linked earlier (my bolding):
CraigAnderson wrote:
Virgin Australia to launch daily SYD-HKG A330 flights from mid-2018
https://www.ausbt.com.au/virgin-austral ... ource=hero


"The flights will run on the airline's Airbus A330 jets featuring its highly-regarded The Business business class, and follows the launch of Melbourne-Hong Kong in late 2017, although those flights are being trimmed back to five days a week."

If in addition to this they will also mess with the timings (I haven't seen anywhere what they will be?) and move it to some unattractive hours just to marry the Sydney ops with the "good" slots, well then I have pretty much lost all hope...

cougar15 wrote:
Having worked overseas for many years (but always actively watching this thread), I always wondered about the negativity relating to VAs intl ops, but more and more I understand. They seem to be all over the shop. It leaves the impression of a lack of strategy. they try something new for a while (like this MEL-HKG), only to chop & change a few months later. To me - as a previously outside observer - this seems like a prime example of that! Markets need a little longer to mature I would think, brand awareness needs to be generated , especially on the HKG side (and yes, I appreciate slot issues were not in their favour, the Hainan angle etc), yet already they are reducing service. That does not look like there is any clear strategic direction in what their international arm is up too. It strikes me a bit of a ´let´s dip into the hat, see what rabbit we drag out and give that a try´ sort of scenario. I wish them every success, I think the competition is needed, but - at least in my humble opinion - they do leave me scratching my head a little in regards to mid & long term strategic direction

Agree wholeheartedly. And I am an active Virgin supporter, but they are loosing me.
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:52 am

waoz1 wrote:
Malaysia Airlines looking to increase capacity to Perth moving to A330s
Looks like Air Asia X's loss is MAS's gain.

"Meanwhile, six A330-200s leased from AerCap will arrive on a staggered basis starting from the second quarter through the third. The airline will deploy them on routes to Mumbai, Delhi, Cheenai, Bangalore, Dhaka, Perth, Kathmandu, Shanghai, Denpasar, and Auckland. Previously used by the now defunct Air Berlin, the A330-200s are on dry lease for six years and will replace six 737-800s now scheduled for return to their lessors."


https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... challenges

https://www.nst.com.my/business/2018/02 ... -structure


Interesting they seem to be doing well out of PER lately
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aerokiwi
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:19 am

cougar15 wrote:
A350OZ wrote:
qf789 wrote:
JB says VA’s performance on MEL-HKG is an indicator on the success on how SYD-HKG will perform

Still planning on having a flight to China

https://www.ausbt.com.au/virgin-austral ... ource=hero


Well MEL-HKG can't be that successful if they scale it back from daily to 5pw and throw daily at SYD instead. But they will also have data on how many pax connect from SYD through MEL nowadays, so they will obviously go direct in the future.


Having worked overseas for many years (but always actively watching this thread), I always wondered about the negativity relating to VAs intl ops, but more and more I understand. They seem to be all over the shop. It leaves the impression of a lack of strategy. they try something new for a while (like this MEL-HKG), only to chop & change a few months later. To me - as a previously outside observer - this seems like a prime example of that! Markets need a little longer to mature I would think, brand awareness needs to be generated , especially on the HKG side (and yes, I appreciate slot issues were not in their favour, the Hainan angle etc), yet already they are reducing service. That does not look like there is any clear strategic direction in what their international arm is up too. It strikes me a bit of a ´let´s dip into the hat, see what rabbit we drag out and give that a try´ sort of scenario. I wish them every success, I think the competition is needed, but - at least in my humble opinion - they do leave me scratching my head a little in regards to mid & long term strategic direction


Reducing MEL is surprising but I'm guessing - as everyone else on here is - that they're anticipating better yields out of Sydney so would rather max efforts on that service for now. Again, not great for Melbourne but with limited capacity it probably makes sense. I'm told the 330 transcons are now profitable so the drawdown on those has stopped (for now). Not sure how accurate that is.

But yeah, it doesn't build a great reputation in the Melbourne market to go to daily then pull back a bit so soon. I hope they know what they're doing but sometimes you have to wonder.

But for me the attitude on this forum re VA that irks is the double standard when compared to QF. VA get dumped on for their fleet - it's more streamlined (and modern) than Qantas (ignoring international where QF's only real difference is). VA gets slammed for onboard service - you may not like it but when I board a VA aircraft I know exactly what I'm getting; QF? Highly variable in my experience. VA's international network has chopped and changed - well hell, Qantas just tried Dubai for a couple of years, ditched that and returned to Plan A via Asia. VA puts E190s on main trunk routes during offpeak - outrage!; Qantas puts 717s on the same - innovative, smart, clever thinking.

And the VA downgrade from 330s to 737s on transcon? Yeah, that sucks for J pax. But you know what? Happened to me on QF one of the few times I got to J it across. I'm told that my company got additional FF points but as they go into a consolidated pool, fat lot of good that did for me as a passenger.

Looks like VA have finally turned the corner on the profitability side. Then at least you can have some confidence that the management team (kinda) knows what they're doing. I mean it's not like it's a rip roaring after tax profit but finally it's a nudge into the black. I note that the shareprice fell a bit on the back of the announcement that there's no immediate plan to take the carrier private. Will be interesting to see if this changes over the next 12 months as HNA's situation is clarified and whether EY's shareholding is confirmed.
 
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EK413
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:41 am

With February discussion coming to a close even though we didn’t beat the January thread with 1024 posts in one month 715 is still impressive.

EK413
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
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cougar15
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:50 am

waoz1 wrote:
Obzerva wrote:
A350OZ wrote:

Well MEL-HKG can't be that successful if they scale it back from daily to 5pw and throw daily at SYD instead. But they will also have data on how many pax connect from SYD through MEL nowadays, so they will obviously go direct in the future.


didn't VA start MEL-HKG as 5 weekly, and then move to daily because of slots.
Haven't seen their scaling that back.
Just checked July through to Sep and it's still showing as 10am from Melbourne every day without exception.


Wouldnt trust that... i remember them doing Perth - Abu Dhabi then canned it and moved passengers onto Etihad.


I missed that entirely, but recall questioning the reason at the time in a previous thread. I saw no sense in PER-AUH on VA metal and last year, meet one of their jockeys in AUH at the hotel bar who was scratching his head too. So PER-AUH never took off then?
some you lose, others you can´t win!
 
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EK413
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:11 am

cougar15 wrote:
waoz1 wrote:
Obzerva wrote:

didn't VA start MEL-HKG as 5 weekly, and then move to daily because of slots.
Haven't seen their scaling that back.
Just checked July through to Sep and it's still showing as 10am from Melbourne every day without exception.


Wouldnt trust that... i remember them doing Perth - Abu Dhabi then canned it and moved passengers onto Etihad.


I missed that entirely, but recall questioning the reason at the time in a previous thread. I saw no sense in PER-AUH on VA metal and last year, meet one of their jockeys in AUH at the hotel bar who was scratching his head too. So PER-AUH never took off then?


PER-AUH never made it off the ground.

EK413
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
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A330freak
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:11 am

Philippine airline increases Melbourne services to 5 weekly from June (Current frequency is 3 weekly). Abysmal timing for the additional 2 flights though with a 3am arrival and 4:40am departure from Melbourne
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... june-2018/
 
waoz1
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:12 am

cougar15 wrote:
waoz1 wrote:
Obzerva wrote:

didn't VA start MEL-HKG as 5 weekly, and then move to daily because of slots.
Haven't seen their scaling that back.
Just checked July through to Sep and it's still showing as 10am from Melbourne every day without exception.


Wouldnt trust that... i remember them doing Perth - Abu Dhabi then canned it and moved passengers onto Etihad.


I missed that entirely, but recall questioning the reason at the time in a previous thread. I saw no sense in PER-AUH on VA metal and last year, meet one of their jockeys in AUH at the hotel bar who was scratching his head too. So PER-AUH never took off then?


No it didnt got canned before first flight passengers were moved to etihad
 
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JBusworth
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:27 am

A330freak wrote:
Philippine airline increases Melbourne services to 5 weekly from June (Current frequency is 3 weekly). Abysmal timing for the additional 2 flights though with a 3am arrival and 4:40am departure from Melbourne
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... june-2018/


Really? On the ground 3am - 4:40am?!? Would hate to work that shift on the ramp or in customs. It's not exactly convent for anyone, how is rocking up at your Hotel at 4am and trying to check in going to go down?
 
log0008
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:46 am

JBusworth wrote:
A330freak wrote:
Philippine airline increases Melbourne services to 5 weekly from June (Current frequency is 3 weekly). Abysmal timing for the additional 2 flights though with a 3am arrival and 4:40am departure from Melbourne
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... june-2018/


Really? On the ground 3am - 4:40am?!? Would hate to work that shift on the ramp or in customs. It's not exactly convent for anyone, how is rocking up at your Hotel at 4am and trying to check in going to go down?


That's going to become the new normal for Melbourne, there is just no international capacity left from 6am to around midday and morning arrivals work best for Asian route. MNL is also a very slot congested airport
 
kriskim
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:00 am

A330freak wrote:
Philippine airline increases Melbourne services to 5 weekly from June (Current frequency is 3 weekly). Abysmal timing for the additional 2 flights though with a 3am arrival and 4:40am departure from Melbourne
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... june-2018/


It's funny what competition does! PR has left MEL at 3 weekly for years, since 5J announced flights, they seem keen to add more flights on!

I agree, awful timings !
A world built upon connectivity.
 
Qantas16
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:54 am

kriskim wrote:
A330freak wrote:
Philippine airline increases Melbourne services to 5 weekly from June (Current frequency is 3 weekly). Abysmal timing for the additional 2 flights though with a 3am arrival and 4:40am departure from Melbourne
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... june-2018/


It's funny what competition does! PR has left MEL at 3 weekly for years, since 5J announced flights, they seem keen to add more flights on!

I agree, awful timings !


Awful timings but offers better connections onto PR domestic services than 5J's 6am ex-MNL and 11pm into MNL flights. Also allows connections onto MNL-LHR (though still not on return).

Good to see PR boost their services to MEL and, presumably, those flight times will change if any better slots at MEL become available.
 
IndianicWorld
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:08 am

Looking at MEL’s international schedule for tonight/tomorrow morning, the last arrival is at 11:35pm and the first arrival will be 5:20am.

Departures in that same period see the last flight at 1:05am and the first plane going out at 6am.

Will likely be hardly anything open at MEL at those times PR comes in and goes out so that will be an interesting experience.

As for VA, interesting they haven’t chosen to look at BNE-HKG next as it had a chance to strengthen its position in MEL and BNE. Instead, it continues to chase QF in its strongest hub.

The reality is that SYD has benefited from being less operationally flexible, but all it does is come across as messy and really isn’t a positive sign for the MEL market.
 
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EK413
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:30 am

A330freak wrote:
Philippine airline increases Melbourne services to 5 weekly from June (Current frequency is 3 weekly). Abysmal timing for the additional 2 flights though with a 3am arrival and 4:40am departure from Melbourne
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... june-2018/


Awful timings indeed. PR MNL-SYD arrives 22:00 and departs following morning 06:00.

EK413
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
An767
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:34 am

qf2220 wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
Lets use the exact words:
"may be forced to reduce the frequency of, downgauge or potentially cancel its A380 service between Sydney and Dallas/Fort Worth"
Cancellation is the third of these options. Capacity cuts are the first and second options.....


Yes but don't ever expect the media to say "Qantas might not fly SYD-DFW daily" when they can scream "QANTAS TO AXE SYD-DFW AIRBUS A380!" LOL


I would expect the media to hype it, but I would expect that we on these boards would look deeper into the facts and not fall into media traps...


This was in the Bangkok Post this morning, talking about the QF /AA JV. and no mention of any other option than QF dropping DFW. So its not only the Aussie press that get it wrong. Although I would assume that the BP would have got it from an Aussie feed in the 1 st place

AN767
If its got wings put me on it. If it floats on water take it away
 
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JBusworth
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:39 am

IndianicWorld wrote:
Looking at MEL’s international schedule for tonight/tomorrow morning, the last arrival is at 11:35pm and the first arrival will be 5:20am.

Departures in that same period see the last flight at 1:05am and the first plane going out at 6am.

Will likely be hardly anything open at MEL at those times PR comes in and goes out so that will be an interesting experience.

As for VA, interesting they haven’t chosen to look at BNE-HKG next as it had a chance to strengthen its position in MEL and BNE. Instead, it continues to chase QF in its strongest hub.

The reality is that SYD has benefited from being less operationally flexible, but all it does is come across as messy and really isn’t a positive sign for the MEL market.


Maybe Duty free will sty open for them? What lounge does PR use in MEL, I don't think any of the lounges will be open that early
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2018

Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:25 am

Australian Aviation Thread - March 2018 is now open for discussion, please continue to add your comments there

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